Young suspension sparks crisis at right-back

Although, he didn't seem to have the experience to just head the ball away when he was one-on-one with a guy half his age.

Playing the fucker was a crisis straight off!

I was going to post something about Ashley Young being red-carded sooner rather than later... and I thought "Nahh, it's negative."

Honestly!

Surely there's a decent free transfer out there? We can't be relying on Mason Holgate or the braindead Ashley Young.

Play the kid, for fuck's sake!! No defenders like coming up against pure pace. He can't play any worse than liability Young.

I love Seamus and I don't want to put him in their category here, but he's been done at this level for a good 3 years now sadly.

And then consider what we've got at right-back. Absolutely criminal that we are shelling out £200k per week on players not good enough for the Championship.

An out-and-out mistake made by the man with the disc beard because it is plain and simple, it is an old boys' network contract. They are good mates and he's done him a favour. It stinks.

The sale of Everton moves faster than he does.

Mazouri, Zirkzee, De Ligt at Man Utd;
Minteh, Weiffer, Ayari at Brighton;
Strand Larsen, Rodrigo, Gomes, Mosquera at Wolves;
Sugawara at Southampton;
Huijsen at Bournemouth;
Fulkrug, Rodriguez, Todibo at West Ham;
Nedeljkovic at Aston Villa...

Quick list of players I just looked at who made their debuts this weekend despite never even playing in the country before.

Dyche is so full of shit. So he went with Keane, who has a good pre season. Even though we won one game and only played 1 team at Premier League level.

Most of the players were blowing hard after 50 minutes — so much for the “Gaffer” Days!

I wish Jimmy Garner was fit to play. Jake O'Brien has played full back but I'm not sure which side.

One on each touchline, a pitch width apart; one somewhere between full-back and central defender; and one with the same problem as his predecessor, nobody to pass to.

Young has got form for this now, he even got away with a few last season due to poor refereeing.

I would like nothing more than that being his last ever appearance for us. Absolute liability and, if he had any professional pride, he'd call it a day himself.

2024 and two of the back four are this cretin and Michael Keane.

I remember him for most of his career as a flying winger with not an ounce of defensive awareness.

For some reason, he's been converted into a full-back and as about as successful a transition as playing Geri Deulofeu there, it's just insane.

Proper right-backs use experience to defend to compensate for the legs going, Young is an accident waiting to happen most weeks.

Most clubs would apply due diligence before appointing a new manger, but no, not Everton. Ask any Burnley fan what you get from Dyche, season after season, and this is precisely what we get. He baffles me, his attitude to football belongs in 1970s junior schools. He will always stick with the old guard — no matter how limited and past it they are — over, pace, flair, and youth.

Below is a BBC report from 2021; I can still see the challenge now (more like assault) and Dyche even smiled:

A dramatic game was also punctuated by moments of controversy when Mee was body-checked by Richarlison, who escaped punishment. Burnley defender James Tarkowski seemed to exact revenge on the Brazilian with a full-blooded challenge by the sidelines.

He was an ale house centre-back as a player for Chesterfield, and he still bloody is now. I look across the park and at Villa, at Spurs and many others and realise Everton are on a different planet.

The new stadium won't change anything, it's years too late, we needed Kings Dock. The ownership we needed was under Kenwright's 24/7 search, it's because of that parasite, we are where we are now.

We as fans are almost powerless to influence team selections, but I'm pretty sure none of us would have chosen that combination for the curtain-raising game of a new season, with virtually a full Goodison Park. Yet Dyche criticised the ones who left early, and there were many!

I am not trying to be a smart arse here in retrospect either: to go into that match, as it was, verged on lunacy, you don't play a defensive-minded set-up with players who are either too old or not good enough.

People saying the only reason Holgate was brought on was in preparation for next week against Tottenham. I know we have a few problems in that position, but better to play Roman Dixon (earlier than possibly planned) than play with Holgate. How can he gain experience if he is not played?

On the right-back conundrum, I really don't get all these 'Patterson is not good enough' comments. He has been unfortunate with injuries mostly picked up on International duty but, in my opinion, he is the best option we have (when fit) as a wingback and defender.

The sad truth is that the likes of Brighton have recruited and sold well (still angry we never went for Caciedo who we had scouted) and as a result have a far superior squad to us with depth in every position.

Our right-back situation sums us up. Young, an experienced pro who's pretty much past it and should only be a backup. Coleman, a once great player who cannot be relied upon anymore due to injuries. Patterson, an overpriced youngster who still has some potential but hasn't progressed and doesn't suit the manager's remit.

None are starting XI material and I wish we'd had £15M spare to get Wan-Bissaka but we didn't. Because we're broke. Because Moshiri and Kenwright ballsed it up.

Coleman could show him the ropes in training… if he could keep up that is.

Very few players go straight from any academy into the starting XI in the Premier League. The vast majority will go on loan first or be slowly phased in with some encouraging minutes off the bench here or there. Perhaps he could be a long-term solution but will need to prove himself in the Championship or elsewhere first, I suspect. Or get subbed on and excel.

Holgate is a Championship-level player but Dixon may not turn out to be even that; throwing him into a high-pressure situation before he's ready may likely do damage to him and us.

Sadly ‘new' does not always mean ‘better'.

I don't particularly like the wingback system but, looking at our squad right now, then I genuinely think that this is the only real system that might just help the team improve.

We have simply got no real pace out wide in either the full-back or the alleged winger positions, and yet our only real tactic was the big 50- or 60-yard diagonal switch or punt.

Getting the players who are good on the ball and can play football, closer to each other, is the only way I can see us trying to improve, but first we have got to get them on the pitch.

Look across all of the squads and line-ups — and you will not find a single player like Roman Dixon.

The teenagers (and there were very few indeed) who played yesterday in the Premier League are all international class players, many of whom have already commanded big fees — Mainoo, Huijsen, Hinshelwood, Nedeljkovic and Hall.

There are two exceptions — used by Saints as subs:

Tyler Dibling (18): bought from Chelsea, lots of caps at England U16 to U18.

Samuel Amo-Ameyaw (18): bought from Spurs, lots of caps at England U17 to U18.

Now nearly 20, Dixon has 1 U16 cap from nearly 5 years ago and no loan experience.

You'd be some distance down the Championship before a player like Roman Dixon would even be considered for the first team.

Perhaps Young's early shower has forced the need for change onto our management team. We will now see what solution (if any) is offered up. I'm not looking forward to our trip to Spurs!

I wasn't Ben Godfrey's biggest fan because of his lack of ability with the football but the kid can defend. When a club like Everton, who are very, very limited in both full-back positions, sell a player who can stand in, in both these positions for around £10 million, then it shows how poor our financial position must be.

Hopefully he gets a loan to League One or the Championship this year but he needs some first-team football to progress.

He said all the youth players can't stand Dyche, he doesn't acknowledge or give any of them a chance.

This surely can't have been the case yesterday with regards Lindstrøm, Ndiaye or O'Brien, and suddenly there's a whole lot more pressure on everyone.

Some people say it would be a gamble to play Dixon. Compared with playing Young, it is not a gamble.

There doesn't need to be a crisis if Dyche does the right thing and, in the meantime, Thelwell pulls his finger out and signs a full-back. He has had all summer to sort this out and, if Mykolenko gets injured, we really are in a crisis.

I think you did an article towards the end of last season saying we should be playing Lewis Warrington in the relegation run-in. He had a lot more experience of competitive football (a season at Fleetwood and 1 starting appearance for Plymouth) than Dixon but, since his release, has been picked up by Leyton Orient in tier 3. He isn't even a starter for them!

Romantic though the idea is that we just need to give these kids a chance, the reality is very different. Dixon would almost certainly have been torn a new one by players in a completely different league to him.

Right-back should have been a priority signing, I can only assume that the club have been thwarted in their attempts to bring someone in?

It may yet be a blessing long term as that slot has to be sorted and Young's dismissal hopefully speeds up the replacement.

Interesting to see what we can do, if anything, in the market.

I have watched Dixon close up, he is pacey, good going forward and in my opinion because he is quick on the turn and can tackle, 'properly', would be a far better prospect than Young.

Other teams play youngsters, Liverpool did it at Wembley, we used to, and with the right guidance, Dixon would not be anything like the liability that Young is and would actually give the team an attacking boost.

That said, we need to urgently bring in at least one full-back because of the lack of cover at left- and right-back. Any suggestions?

We struggled yesterday to put one out...

We need to bring in 2 full-backs and a fast player up front (we have no pace at fullback or on the wings). Sadly, any attempt of trying to remedy this will be followed by a 10-point deduction just before Xmas...

As a side issue, Chelsea have 47 first-team players and incredibly 10 keepers on the books, yet no points deduction threat...

it's all about Financial Fair Play... yer right!!!

Instead, he choose to chase phantom bids for Gnonto, or signing a centre-half that isn't good enough to displace Michael Keane. They also have 4 loan signings available — are you telling me we can't get a loan player better than the current cohort???

O'Brien was not the priority when we don't have a first choice right-back on the books. The decision to sell Godfrey and not replace his versatility looks brain-dead.

The midfield looks cooked. Gana and Doucoure are done. It's a huge ask on Iroegbunam and a lightweight Garner for a season.

The decision to sign McNeil and bring back Harrison is equally baffling. They're squad players, not first-team quality. They produce nothing.

Required:-

Left-back
Right-back
Centre-midfield
Right-winger
Centre-forward

Quite right Liverpool used Connor Bradley as their right-back. But he'd had a full season at Bolton where he'd excelled — and was also a full international with Northern Ireland. Nothing like the situation with Dixon.

There are tonnes of academy players of his standard and none of them are getting first-team games. As I said earlier, not one Premier League manager would have played Dixon yesterday.

Sadly, there's a very good chance our next first-teamer from the academy is currently no older than 14 or 15. We've lost the best prospects in Lawrence (City), Samuels-Smith (Chelsea) and Lienou (City).

Should Young be anywhere near the first team? No. He's crap. Holgate, the only other credible option, is crap too. In fact, our right flank yesterday is probably the worst in the Premier League by some distance.

Should we be trying to sign a right-back? Yes. I expect we have been trying throughout the course of the summer.

Should it have been Wan-Bissaka? Possibly — but why would he choose Everton ahead of a West Ham side that is spending its way to a tilt at the Top 4 after underachieving under Moyes?

Who else is there? As ever, plenty of of options — but our current financials and ownership uncertainty will not exactly make us first choice so selling clubs, players and agents will probably leave it late in the window before committing themselves.

I agree we should have replaced Godfrey's versatility but these things are not as simple or opaque as you are making out.

Lots of holes and no money. It's a very difficult balancing act. But I do think right-back should have been a greater priority.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I've just been getting told that, unless Moshiri is prepared to lower his asking price, then he has got absolutely zero chance of selling Everton. So perhaps we need to find an active way of protesting about Moshiri's ownership before it is too late and we end up in the Championship.

Surely to God there's money in there for a right-back that's under 35, even if it's a down payment, loan to buy, etc...

This was a problem staring at them all last season, and so to go into the new season with the same issue is shameful.

Holgate or McNeil at right back, you couldn't make it up...

And all this panty adjusting over Dyche's presser? Do one. You've made a small cottage industry of making non-sequitur criticisms and now you get a response from the one who actually knows what the constraints are and more importantly, has the microphone.

Let's air it out then. It is good for long run club confidence, innit?

I don't think you need to count a player's U-16 caps or see it as a demerit that he hasn't been on loan to the Championship. If you have a gap due to squad injuries, you test the player who plays that position normally.

It could hardly have gone any worse with Roman at right-back than what we saw.

Everyone one of us knew he wouldn't start with the exciting looking Ndiaye, or the pacy trickery of Lindstrom, or the youthful excitement of Dixon, or even the experienced but not in the premier league O'Brien.

So, you can bet your house on Holgate playing next week, Ndiaye being on the bench again while Doucoure lumbers around getting caught offside, and the inept central partnership of Keane and Tarks - the latter looking a shadow of last season when partnered with the former.

Another long, miserable season ahead.

Steve, I think it certainly could get worse with Dixon at FB. It could get worse for us (he's not shown anything outstanding at U23 level as a defender) and for him (hanging him out to dry against Mitoma yesterday or Son next game).

But we have no one fit.

If we don't sign anyone the options are:

Coleman - injured
Patterson - injured
Garner - injured
Holgate - can't play at RB and his confidence is shot
Back 3 - using 3 strapping centre halves is a recipe for trouble and after one game changing the formation could be a disaster
So Dixon gets my vote as there is not a better option apart from:

The best option is signing someone quickly and we need to wake up to the reality that he does not need to be brilliant just a decent player who will be a far better option than Young. Panic buy yes because that is where we are. After one game!

One supposes a solution exists, the other side places emphasis on the cost of finding that solution. This is a long term, steer the ship mentality vs Oh God-The Dingy is rocking->Time for Cannibalism.

Ok, that is over the top but the ad hominem stuff calls for a blunt response. The man isn't thick like Frank.

I saw a guy a a claret shirt in Tesco this morning, I asked him would you want Dyche back, the answer was"Hell No".

I'm being serious here, I'd rather have Rafa Benitez, than the Ale House 1970s PE teacher.

It was Young who got “hung out to dry” yesterday. Good and proper.

I suppose the next step will be to line up Holgate there next week against Son. How do we all think that will go?

Liverpool played 5 youngsters in the Carling Cup final and they seemed to find the ability to adapt.

We play aged, declining or out of form “experienced” players and where does it get us?

1) He is a right back and knows the position

2) He is fast and dynamic

3) He is not 39 years old

4) He is not Mason Holgate.

And I think having fullbacks who get a nose bleed crossing the halfway line isn't helpful.

If Dixon were ready to do a job against the likes of Son and Mitoma then he would have been chased for a championship loan before now. As Robert has alluded to there are championship scouts who will have watched all of his games at youth level last season and it would seem none thought him good enough yet.

Let's find a good loan, Chelsea have Chalobah and Disasi who could both do a good job as defensive right back.

If I remember rightly, Coleman himself made loads of errors when he began at Right Back...better going forward but iffy defensively I can recall on the site by loads of Blues...so trust in young players...Spain did after all!!

As for Young... just get rid,be braver Dyche cos the same old faces next weekend will just yield a similar result.

God knows how many people have been saying for months that we need to sign a right back. We have one senior right back who is very injury prone and by all accounts not fancied by the manager, and another 3 players who are all emergency stop-gaps, not even cover material. It's simply unbelievable that we've not signed one yet. Having little money is no excuse as you can just sign one on loan.

Young is a walking red card against any winger with pace. Coleman obviously long passed his best and everyone else - Holgate, Garner etc are only for emergencies. It's such a glaring hole in the side, just criminal we haven't fixed this.

It'e been an issue position for so many seasons now. We signed Coleman 15 years ago and haven't signed a proper long-term senior right back since then! Patterson's been injured so many times we can't keep waiting for him to be fit. Just sign a first choice right back and let the two compete for the spot (whenever Patterson is fit).

From the very start of the game we were on the back foot. Not Youngs fault either. However can it be fair to have him come up against Mitoma or Minteh? It's almost laughable.

Just don't understand the position but hopefully the red card will force the club to sign one finally before the window shuts [and we're stuck with what we've got for the season].

Man City, Barca, Bayern still in his prime and then Everton under Dyche?

We can only dream I guess.

On a lighter note, Ashley Young is suspended for the next game.

Amazing player, fast, strong — and mahoosive throw-ins for attack.

Positives? Southampton looked okay but can't score. Now we need a dip in form for just two more clubs.

If he has, then Dixon was probably 8 years old at the time and, while Dixon might not be the best choice, at least one player makes him not the worst.

And if international caps in that position are any sort of criteria then Patterson when fit is a shoo-in, even Seamus is still playing internationals.

Should we have bought one? Well, we didn't.

Tarkowski is afforded almost cult status. His last ditch tackles are legendary, I think that gets him away with murder. No team can hope to compete with their center half and skipper playing like that

Holgate and Keane will be praying he doesnt play like that again against Spurs, because boy will they get slaughtered if he does

It just proves how important Jarrad Branthwaite is, he is so aware. My concern is when he goes. Sigh - we really aren't easy on the eye are we.

The game had gone before young got sent off.

Holdgate will probably start next week though I would give Dixon a go and I haven't even seen him play!

It's a free hit next week, we have a terrible record there so why not see if the lad can perform at this level.

He doesn't have England caps at youth level like all of our cohort that won't the euros 7 years ago, only one of them is still in the prem!

Chances are we will get beat even with a fully fit squad. Give the lad a go.

I don't think Dave, is blaming anyone, (but surely Keane has to go towards the ball at some stage Dave?) but like Danny said in his match report, our two central defenders looked like they had fell out with each other at times, and with the game now being played at such a frightening pace, once Gueye, ignored our left back, who was in a very good attacking position (he possibly could have even been played in, although he was still a long way from the Brighton goal) then every single player in our back four was out of position, and we got punished by a little bit of quality, because the Brighton player had all the time in the world.

Saturday proved how important Brainthwaite is to our team, and my own view is that I think that it's time for Dyche to look at another system (can the Leopard change his spots) or at least try and get us a bit of pace in the wide areas.

It all started with only his third game with us last season, when he forgot he'd left Aston Villa and for some reason threw a ball in from a throw in straight to a Villa player from which they scored. A few weeks later, at Brentford, he got laced down our right in the first few minutes, took their player out and rightly got booked. Puts him on edge for the rest of the game knowing another similar tackle will see him taking the early bath.

Then we had the RS away. I said prior to that match if he does what he did at Brentford, then he will walk. Well after about five minutes, a reckless challenge brought the first yellow card, and thirty minutes later he was trundling off.

Then we had the three penalty shouts against Forest, all against him. Granted I thought it would have been harsh if either of the first two had been given, but we've seen them given, whilst how he got away with the third one god knows.

Forward to the last game at Arsenal, when he was left back, and in the last few minutes gave a brain dead pass inside to Tarkowski, which was intercepted by Gabriel Jesus. I still maintain Jesus deliberately used his arm to knock the ball away from Tarks in the build up to the Arsenal winner, robbing us of a deserved point.

Then on Saturday, everyone could see as soon as he tried to control the ball he was going to lose it, and the inevitable happened.

I'm sure there are plenty of other incidents where Young has made a right balls up, but at the moment can't think of any. Let's just say his balls up probably outweigh anything he's done good!

So we go on to Spurs without an experienced right back. Now I know we're talking about a different level altogether here, but haven't Barcelona been playing a five year old kid, Lamine Yamal last season, ( Ok, I know he's really sixteen), a kid who has just won a European championship with Spain. So if you're old enough then you're good enough. Roman Dixon is nineteen years old, twenty in December, a veteran compared to Yamal, so for gods sake, put him in as let's face it, the options we've got are zero. Well not quite, there's Holgate but I think I'd be a better option than Holgate, and it's over twenty years since I last kicked a ball in anger.

Right back is a going to an interesting decision. I don't know where Patterson is in terms of fitness. It could be Holgate?

I doubt the manager would got for three at the back and bring O'Brien in.

My son was speculating that their could be emerging friction between Dyche and Thelwell. I'm not sure about that, but we've signed new players, most of who were on the bench. Play them and change the tactics.

Obviously I have no say, but just get that one out of our heads and go into the next one with belief.

The actual pullback for the red card. If that had been on Calvert-Lewin, it would have been a yellow at most. But it is Everton so straight red.

The main problem all game is our wingers get the ball and stare at their feet. Every cross takes ages to arrive and, when it does, it is a floaty slow cross. There is no pace on the ball, so even if anyone gets a header, it has no power. They need to whip balls into the box like Brighton did for their first.

James Garner played right back versus Bournemouth(?) when Doucoure's goal kept us up, he had a great game there even if a regular poster said the same as yourself — he had never played right back— read Michael Kenrick's report of that game.

Garner also played right back in the England U21s Euro winning campaign. He is probably the best option we have at the club right now, even when everybody is fit.

I actually blame Tarkowski for that goal against Arsenal too. A professional footballer should always "expect" the ball.

Tony,

I didn't mean Tarkowski should go to right-back for the first goal, but he knew his right-back had been caught up-field over-lapping. He knew Mitoma was the immediate (only?) danger. IMO, He should have been breaking his neck to cover the far post. He didnt. He stayed central hoping the killer pass was not played. Unfortunately it was.

I see the second goal different to you as well, mate. Keane was trying to do two jobs. Welbeck was baring down on him and he was being over-lapped. Tarkowski didn't adress the danger at all. For the life of me, I don't understand why he just runs towards Pickford. He doesn't address the immediate danger at all. That little hop when Welbeck shot also mystifies me.

This is not an attack on Tarkowski. I have said many times that he is (for me) the best backs-to-the-wall defender in the game; he is one of the main reasons we are still in this league, but there are fundamental flaws to his game.

When we lose possession and are caught going forward as a unit, his flaws and judgement are regularly exposed (particularly when Jarrad isn't playing). Thats okay. No player is perfect, but in his case, other players always take the blame.

I don't get it. He had an absolute shocker on Saturday, but it barely gets a mention on any thread anywhere.

Thanks, I knew Garner had played for England U21s when we won that competition, I was just stressing he had played for Everton as a right-back.

Dave (85),

Ashley Young should never have played that ridiculous pass against Arsenal so he has to take the blame. But, if you look at that situation again, Onana has the ball near the halfway line with three Everton players around him, one inside and two ahead of him.

He could have made an easy pass to any of them but chose to pass the ball to Young about 10 or 15 yards further back. That was the start of Arsenal getting the winning goal even though Arsenal got away with a handball.

Keane wasn't trying to do two jobs, though, Dave, because he was caught between two stools and ended up not doing either, and this has been a regular occurrence throughout his Everton career.

Things happen that quick nowadays and none of our collective back four on Saturday have any real pace, unfortunately, with the most obvious and worrying thing being that modern day football is all about pace.

I'm kinda sorry I posted on this subject because you are right. We win and lose as a team. I just think that some players get hammered and every error they make is grossly exaggerated while others get away with murder.

Hopefully see you soon mate. I'm trying to get a Tottenham ticket in the home end. £55 for membership and then the ticket on top of that!! I'll have to use the wife's money. I'll probably wake her from the grave!

Your biggest point is that a lot of people have got preconceived ideas which usually results in their own personal scapegoat getting it. I can't even defend Dyche for Saturday because I believe he got it wrong and hope he's learned a little bit more about Evertonians once somebody hopefully puts him wise.

I think he was also hurt early on and played at about 50% from that point onwards -

Here is a case study from Liverpool last season:

Conor Bradley — total Premier League apperances = 12 (11 last season) / EFL loans = 1 (41 appearances)

Jarrell Quansah — total Premier League appearances = 17 (16 last season) / Championship or EFL loans = 1 (16 appearances)

Bobby Clark - total premier league appearances = 6 / Championship or EFL loans = 0

jayden Danns - total Premier League appearances = 2 / Championship or EFL loans = 0

James McConnell — total Premier League appearances = 3 / Championship or EFL loans = 0

Here is the summary:

1) Quansah and Bradley were picked by Klopp last season due to significant injuries at right-back and centre-back (sound familiar?). Before that, they had 2 Premier League games between them.

2) Only Bradley had any substantive Championship or EFL appearances on loan.

3) None of them are being loaned out this season.

4) None of them have received transfer offers.

5) They all have Caraboa Cup winners medals.

Klopp played them all in the final against Chelsea because Liverpool have a football strategy to develop and blood youngsters and the clarity and resolve to do it. Klopp didn't hesitate when Liverpool had significant injuries in key positions and the need to rotate the squad — he picked them. If you had asked him to play a 39-year-old out of position as cover he would have laughed.

However, Roman Dixon or Harrison Armstrong are not ready or will never be ready. They have looked comfortable playing in the pre-season friendlies besides better players in the first team, but they are “not ready” despite us having a large number of injuries.

It all just smacks of muddled thinking masquerading as pragmatic football logic.

If you have a strategic aim to progress young players to the first team and no available first-team players in that position, then you play them.

The alternative?

Play poor Ashley Young out of position and watch him tormented by Mitoma and Co into a red card. Rinse and repeat next Saturday when we will likely pick Holgate, a centre-back in steep decline, to get rinsed against Son. Let's see how that one goes.

Then we can sigh and agree “well if only our young players had an U19 cap or a loan spell with Wycombe, then they could have played for the last 15 minutes when we were 3-0 down.”

Let's looks at those same players with a few more facts...

Conor Bradley: as you point out, a successful loan at Bolton where he excelled after being bought from. Also a Northern Ireland international. So that proves the point you're trying to counter.

Jarrell Quansah: again, a successful loan, as you point out. Also regular England international caps at every level since U15. Again, seems to prove the point.

Bobby Clark: just a handful of appearances for the first team after being bought from Newcastle for £1.5M. Regular England international caps at every level since U15. Again, the independent assessment of England youth selectors seems to prove the point.

Jayden Danns: 2 appearances in the league, regular England international at U16 and U18 level. Same story...

James McConnell: 3 appearances in the league after being bought from Sunderland. He is the outlier because he hasn't yet been capped at England youth level. Let's see how he does.

However, the more relevant comparison is with the large number of RS counterparts who do not have loans and do not have international recognition. Like our lot, they don't make it.

And the standard of the Premier League is so high even the loans and international recognition don't mean you definitely make it. It just sets you apart from those destined for lower league football (like Mackenzie Hunt and Lewis Warrington always were - and Onyango and Welch now seem to be).

Take the example of Rhys Williams who now 23 is miles away from making it at the RS now despite various loans and England recognition from U18 to U21 level. The RS release countless more year on year of the same profile as Roman Dixon — as does every academy.

“ We can't do Plan A all the time, it's too predictable, it's too slow. It can be a threat and an option for us but it can't be our only option. It was disappointing that we didn't see the new faces. You've got to give them an opportunity as they're hungry to impress.

There are players here who have been told they can go for the last couple of years but they're still being given the reward of putting that royal blue jersey on. These fresh faces will bring an element of the unknown to the opposition. They won't know what they can do and what their strengths are.

Surely that's a benefit to us? Everybody knows what Michael Keane can do, everyone knows what Ashley Young can do and if he plays right-back then he's going to get targeted like he did last season. Why are we leaving the door open to the opposition to implement that? It was a copy and paste job from the poor performances of last season.”

Quansah, actually got in the England shadow squad before the best young central defender in the country, and the only one who will probably really make the grade at Liverpool, will be Conor Bradley, who seems to be a player who comes from a bye-gone era, with regards his very competitive nature.

The Welsh kid they sold to Forest, for around £17 million, is an inferior player to Jonjoe Kenny imo, and he left on a free, because Everton haven't had any real strategy since Farhad Moshiri came into our club.

Do you think that Klopp was fact checking the number of junior internationak caps each player had before he put them into the Carabao Cup Final starting line up or subbed them on for experienced players when the score was 0-0 ?

Championship or EFL loan - check

U16 cap - check

U 19 cap - check.

Phone call to the England youth selectors - check

On you go son.

This isn't football manager, Robert.

Klopp assessed the players in training every day, and when he need to put the young players in due to injuries he didn't hesitate. That is because the club and the manager are operating to a football model that they have absolute clarity about and are unafraid to execute, even in a cup final.

As for your constant targeting of MacKenzie Hunt and Lewis Warrington, they seem to have upset you. I also don't recall ever stating that they should be put into the first team.

The two players who I think made a case for inclusion were Dixon and Armstrong. How did I come to this assessment? By watching them play.

Other than getting someone in (Isnt Mitchell available?) we are short on options unless we throw Roman Dixon in but for reasons put forward by previous posters that doesn't seem the right thing to do.

For next week, Dyche will probably play Holgate — for one, this is away from home, so the pressure will be far less. Secondly, at right back, his mistakes have a better chance of being covered up by others.

If not, I can see Dyche playing a back 3 of O'Brien on the left, Keane in the middle and Tarkowski on the right. Mykolenko as left-wingback and Harrison as right-wingback. Calvert-Lewin up front with Ndiaye playing off him. Gana, Iroegbunam and Lindstrøm in the midfield.

Sure as houses.

2 games in is already too long for me. Do you see Liverpool pissing 6 points up the wall so freely?

We constantly start seasons vulnerable in certain positions and obviously the opposition know this. If we get a draw at Tottenham, I will be chuffed.

For someone so experienced and with all this game experience, it was a foolish move.

Might be a chance for Roman Dixon that everyone seemed to want after pre-season. Dyche has to fall on his sword about that disgraceful performance and putting on Holgate ahead of O'Brien was another element of the woe.

One final thought: Whatever the problem is, Mason Holgate is not the solution.

The crisis existed long before Young's red card. It was discussed on here through pre-season (well, probably every pre-season, not just this one).

Personally I think Dyche will go with Holgate or Keane as an emergency right-back. But the better answer is almost certainly to be a bit more creative with the setup of the players available.

That option has existed for a long time though, and has been avoided at every turn.

We'll go for 'experience'. We might fluke something. If we keep our shape, we'll probably get beaten by only one or two. Sadly, I think that is considered a reasonable outcome by our current management. We don't need to perform at Spurs to stay up.

He's getting caught out by younger players and made to look stupid. The solution isn't for him to do better, he can't do better — the solution is to stop putting him in that position.

And there is a serious point in there! Deep down.

I've got my own ideas, but they wouldn't work just now, because of injuries, so it would be interesting to see what others (not just Ernie) would do if they were able to pick the Everton team on Saturday.

It is going to be Holgate whose focus, apart from.one brief shining period, has been well below Young's.

The lad has plenty of speed, which is definitely needed but is very raw in other areas such as anticipation and positional sense, they might come in the future hopefully, let him keep learning.

Lots of fans were asking for Onyango to come into the midfield last season without seeing the lad, he wasn't ready and imo not good enough. Let's see if Dixon proves himself capable in the future.

Watching Spurs last night, Son played left mid so whoever we have at right back is in for a tough time.

We know Holdgate isn't the future of the club so why not give the young lad a go?

I would also pack the midfield and play 5 in there with the hope of closing space down.

"After Young was sent off against Brighton & Hove Albion, Mason Holgate comes on and for the third goal he doesn't get across his man. You can see what's happening at Tottenham if Holgate starts there will be a yellow card early on and I wouldn't be surprised if he got sent off as well.

Would I like to see Dyche take a risk and put someone else in? Yes.

If Roman Dixon plays the game, he's shown a bit of quality in pre-season games and he's fast and wants to go forward. I watched him and thought ‘wow, is he really good or have I just not seen a full-back run 10 yards forward for a good couple of years?'

I don't know what level the boy could be, but he's shown something that we haven't seen. Has he got the quality in the final third? Who knows?

But given him the opportunity. If he has a poor game against Son Heung-min and company then whatever because it's a win-win anyway.

The best right-backs in the world have poor games against players like that. However, if he plays well then imagine the confidence he'd get out of that with the manager saying: ‘Go on lad, show us what you can do.'

Michael obviously hasn't read that Roman is ineligible for selection in the premier league because he hasn't played in an England youth team!

Honestly, we keep hanging our hats off mediocre "experienced" players and wonder why the Academy is not producing and we keep losing.

We need some hope to cling to, Holdgate got booed on this Saturday which is some achievement.

You get what you see with Dyche, in our position we aren't going to attract the new Pep without any money to spend.

Whoever takes over whenever that is will bring in a new manager.

Just go and play without fear. There will be thousands making a long trip. If not the result, just give them a performance.

Back 3 of Tarks, Keane, O'Brien(or Myko), with Harrison and McNeil as WB's

O'Brien at RB

Holgate at RB

I know O'Brien is not a RB but he at least has recent form playing against top players. None of the above options will, in my view, avoid us losing.

As for Dixon, I think Robert's assessment is correct. As an illustration, think of another defender people have talked about, Reece Welch, who has actually been picked recently for an England age group side. He went on loan last year for my local team Forest Green Rovers. He managed 1 game and that was enough. In the lowest tier of the league. And Forest Green ended up relegated from that.

‘Got to be Dixon'…..are you sure?

An untried debutante at right back away at a team challenge for top 4. Possibly against Son, Maddison and Richarlison and he's never ever played a senior match.

Some fans live in fantasy land.

Play him against Doncaster or bring him on as a sub at Spurs perhaps. But starting him? It would be unfair to the lad.

Yes, Holgate is no great shakes, probably a Championship level player but he has over 10,000 minutes in the Premier League under his belt. He's far better equipped to deal with Son and Co and is a reasonable athlete in his own right.

Let's not destroy Dixon's confidence because of Moshiri's and the board's deficiencies. Give him a runout against Doncaster and see how he does.

No way. It would be carnage and their confidence would be shot

The days of a kid like Rooney slotting in at the highest level for Everton have gone.

Just pray we have another Rooney one day in the future.

Don't worry he will probably go with vastly experienced, can't defend, penalty tackle or sending off waiting to happen Holgate.

How do we get to know if these young players are actually any good unless we have a bit of confidence in them and actually play them in the first team.

I did notice however that player of the match on Saturday was someone who we all thought was quite a way off the first team when we bought him, but injuries forced Dyche to play him.

If the lad is stinking the house out we have the vastly experienced Holdgate on the bench.

On some threads the manager gets slated for not playing young players now even posters are saying don't play the young players as the old shit ones are a safer bet!

A young lad making his debut was our best player on Saturday. A player deemed not good enough for villa.

The spurs manager last night brought on 2 20 year old centre mids both unproven at prem level.

There are levels in football like most sports you will find your level if given the chance. Without getting the chance you will never know.

We all know Holdgate is not the answer but will probably get the nod for Saturday.

Tim Iroegbunam also cost €10m after a strong performance on loan at QPR in the Championship.

I really hope Roman Dixon is a success but the difference between him and the players noted is more like the difference between Haaland and strikers from non-league football.

The premier league is littered with players from humble beginnings. Non league and foreign lower league clubs are a hot bed of talent.

Just because a player has missed out on international recognition doesn't mean he can't be a functioning team player in the prem.

How do we know what this kid is made of unless he gets a go.

It's not just about Premiership experience, it's about experience of senior football anywhere. Unlike the Spurs lads, or the Liverpool lads or the City lads (or pretty much any youngster starting his first PL match) Dixon has not played a single minute of senior football anywhere in the world. I know people are frustrated but a little patience needs to be shown.

There is a choice on Saturday.

A failed player who isn't interested in playing for us though he is happy with the 70k a week and has failed in the championship or a promising 20 year old who would been keen as mustard to give it a go and try to forge a career for himself.

It's barely a choice. No sane manager would start Dixon (unless perhaps he'd been insanely good in training). By all means start him against Doncaster to give him his first taste but starting him away to one of the best attacks in the league would be bad for him and bad for us. It won't happen and nor should it.

This debacle was entirely predictable to anyone with half a brain. Dire management.

We're down to selecting players who we don't want to select. For different reasons.

You could go with a back 5 which would give whoever the right-back is a bit of cover and not completely expose them.

Whoever plays there is in for a chastening experience. But it's still an experience. I'd rather see that experience go to Dixon rather than being wasted on Holgate. Mind you, the same logic already applied on Saturday.

We've already pretty much been told what will happen. Dyche has said Dixon will be in contention for Doncaster. He's not getting a game at Spurs unless he comes on when Holgate is sent off.

Sam I also understand why Dyche will pick Holdgate instead of Dixon.

4 weeks ago everyone thought Tim was a PSR loophole. Yep, fast forward 4 weeks and the 21-year-old with 1 prem game behind him was picked ahead of the more expensive more senior transfers. Oh and was MotM.

Maybe it's just a mad idea to put a 19-year-old into a full-back position these days in the prem unless you spend big money on them.

Let's hope Dixon gets an outing against Doncaster and takes his chance.

No wonder young players snub Everton and clear off if they can't get in the team ahead of a busted flush like Ashley Young.

The circumstances are unfair on Dixon as suddenly he's being thrust forward because the first-team squad is so crap. He does look a good player at U21 level (and as Michael L correctly points out, he has made a few recent England U20 squads — just not been used).

But the general consensus from the Tranmere game last night was that he probably needs experience on loan before stepping up to a Premier League first team. One bad result for the first team shouldn't change that if it's the best thing for his development.

Harrison Armstrong, it seems, may be closer to the first team however. It will be good to see him get some minutes under his belt this season.

The Academy player must have a) U16 caps b) U19 caps c) Championship or EFL loan with X appearances d) Subject to a transfer bid of £Y million plus. Now Sam adds the number of minutes of senior football - how that works for a young player wanting to break into the team is not explained.

When their ‘logic' crashes into the painful reality of last Saturday's events, then Robert and Sam doubled-down on their arguments.

Let me make a bold prediction: Dyche will select Holgate at right-back and it will probably end very badly — I would love to be wrong, by the way. Robert and Sam will then be back onto post that it is a terrible display but the manager made the only sane selection choices available to him.

Not one of them had to get top-level experience before being thrown in and, in Rooney's case, we probably lost him because he wanted to play regularly.

I understand and agree that there is a chasm between youth and Premier League football but there is also a reason why 39-year-old players aren't getting a game in the Premier League.

I've no problem in the side fielding young players, indeed (as per post 151 and various articles over the years), I'd be delighted to see us to develop into an academy-led side.

Having seen him play a few times, you're keen (paraphrasing) to put Dixon in the first team and trust him to rise to the occasion. That's fine, that's your opinion.

I've also seen him play a few times, and I think he'd be better served by a period on loan (and quite a few posters in the Tranmere thread thought the same).

Personally, I don't think it would be good for his development to throw him in at the deep end, especially against Spurs (and especially while we're without Branthwaite alongside Tarkowski). That's my opinion.

Ultimately, neither of these "naked eye" opinions are especially well informed because neither of us see Dixon in training etc and though we might like to think we know a thing or two - we probably don't actually have much of a clue really.

That's why I think it's helpful to look at the profile of young players who are being picked for Premier League games. As I have said, as a recurring trend it's rare that young players get first-team football unless (a) they have been capped regularly at youth international level and / or (b) they've had a successful loan — ideally at Championship level.

This isn't a tick box thing. Obviously the club coaches are assessing the quality but, if you are of high quality, then independent national and club scouts take notice. Also, it's just what normally happens. You might hunt around and find a few exceptions, but there won't be many.

Does having youth international caps and / or a loan mean you're destined for success? No. Sadly the standard is so high that many even with these credentials don't make it — as Kenny, Connolly and Dowell can all testify.

Does not having youth international caps and / or a loan mean you won't make it? No. But it would normally mean you have to drop down the leagues and get back into the Premier League via promotion — as per the likes of Broadhead, Lundstram, Forshaw and others. Again, you might find a few exceptions but there really aren't many.

Would it be fair to Dixon to play him against Spurs? I don't think it would be. He'd be under huge pressure because a big deal has already been made of our right-back position — and a very good Spurs side would likely target him relentlessly as a weak link.

If he fails, it could be very hard to come back from which would be a shame for a promising player. Doncaster yes, that's a good opportunity and a big step up. Let him come through that in good shape and then put him in consideration for Premier League matches.

But the real solution will be to buy the long overdue right-back before the window closes and hopefully Dixon, perhaps after a season on loan at a decent level, can come back equipped to compete for the right-back slot going forwards.

He's predominantly a centre-back but can play right-back to a high standard. At 25, he can fight for Tarkowski's place soon. However, in the meantime, he can get us out of a hole by playing right-back for a couple of seasons with Patterson or Dixon as his cover.

Centre-back: 130 games; right-back: 20 games; defensive midfielder: 88 games.

Steve Macmananananan; If I remember correctly, couldn't get a game under queen kenny, Souness took over more or less put him right in.

A Fullbackery is one Vs one and by all accounts nobody is going to do Dixon for pace...unlike some we could mention, so there's half the job done already.

I'll take a point right now, but doubt we'll get it the way Dyche shaped last week. That said Spurs have their own problems and you never know. But Holgate doesn't inspire me.

The closer it gets to the window closing, the better deal you will get from them, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a load of them move on deadline day.

Maduweke, Chalobah, Chukuwemka, and a few others would definitely improve our squad.