Everton looking to appoint Nick Cox as new technical director

The owners are firmly putting their own stamp on the club.

The paragraph that caught my eye, was referring to Kinnear, wanting a broader, flatter structure, with experts in recruitment and player negotiations, which takes it away from Moyes' sole responsibility.

That's not a dig at the Manager. He can tell them what he wants and focus on the first team.

I think the crucial appointments for the Academy will be the new coaches, they are certainly needed and have done for a good few years.

- to provide first team players
- to provide additional revenue through player sales to buy first-team players

Even when the academy players are excellent they are being traded because there is a big accounting win.

There is a lot of trading going on age 14 to 18 - and then bigger money deals age 18 to 22. Man Utd haven't done this as successfully in recent years as City and the RS possibly - but still generated money from the likes of Kambwala, Hannibal, Pellestri, Carreras, Pereira etc and those mentioned by others.

Think they've been in the top 2 or 3 in the U18 Premier League for the last 4 years or so which suggests their academy is churning out or finding decent players consistently though obviously they have far more resources than most. Not sure of budgets but maybe they might feel they should have been matching Chelsea or Man City, which I'm not sure they've achieved.

Villa has already paid a lot for him. If reports are to be believed, paying 75% of his significant wages. The deal also had an option to buy for £40M. I'm not sure if they took that up. I haven't seen anything.

Ryan, I'm not sure what you're getting at there. Other decent players or being sarcastic? Maybe explain, so I can understand.

James Garner, once fit, had a very good half a season alongside Gana.

Henderson is England's number 2 and won the FA Cup with Crystal Palace, although it's debatable that he should have still been on the pitch.

Yes, he has had a tough 2 years with Man Utd and England but I think he has had a good few years with Man Utd, mostly as a striker.

Maybe his form has dipped with him being used more as a winger and I think he will have a few options to move this summer although the huge wages he is on could be a handicap to that move.

I'm adding the player brought through the Man Utd academy because Colin was struggling to remember other players coming through their academy.

I just wasn't sure what you meant. My bad.

Maybe not as good now as Sir Alex's early days, but still produce. Arsne Wenger wasn't too shabby at spotting young talent and West Ham back in the day were pretty good too.

Let's hope this restructuring can help us tap in to local and foreign talent. I'm not a believer of taking kids into academies too early, but we can at least identify them.

You will rarely, if ever get a Rooney, who by all accounts (urban myth), was ready for the man's game at 10 years old!!

For me, there's never been a greater England player than Wayne Rooney. You don't get players like him often.

I love the interview Kevin Campbell gave about first meeting a young 14-year-old Wayne Rooney

In fact... we could be in for a name change to the club:
Manchester Old Boys.

That's a very negative viewpoint. What we need around the club is some enthusiasm and optimism.

He has some strengths certainly: largely in buying good but not great players in what would now be the £20M to £40M range.

But how does his expertise compare with the professionalised set-up at Brighton, for example, where they have already spent about £60M this summer on 4 under-21 players from Korea, Greece, the Championship and Italy?

And how many players did Moyes increase in value between 5 and t10 times? I'd say it's around a dozen players. I think his track record in recruitment is utterly beyond question.

It's been reported by Paddy Borland that Moyes will get the final say on any transfers.

And Moyes does still have his limits.

I'd be very surprised if he's managed to stay on top of what is now a global market (and the highly professionalised nature of operating in that market). And when he has a big budget, he just seems to spend it on the same quality of player he can typically find with a smaller budget.

I think these are things which mean he is not beyond question. And will definitely benefit from experienced professional support (in the same way Klopp did at the RS, when we was persuaded to go with advice from the then newly hired data analysts).

I think that is what Ryan is suggesting - that we're building a better team around recruitment (or at least trying to) to make the most of the budget we do have going forward - which will also extend to areas of recruitment Moyes probably shouldn't have any say in (i.e. 14 to 16 year olds who are unlikely to debut while he is manager - and any development players initially earmaked for loans).

I met Rooney when he was about 10 or 11 years old.

He was at my niece's birthday party who was a good friend and still is with Wayne's future wife. I suppose the word for him then was 'brash' and he didn't mind telling you how good he was.

Glad to see the fixtures are out and I can start planning my next visit back… looks like September when they have 2 home games.

He achieved nothing during that time.

He actually got Sunderland relegated in that period after buying Darron Gibson, Steven Pienaar and Bryan Oviedo from us as well as Victor Anichebe.

On that basis if he thought they were all good enough for Sunderland. He'd have kept them at Everton.

Then to West Ham where he inherited Declan Rice. He wouldn't have had him at Everton.

Beyond that you have to assume that about 75% of the players he signed for West Ham – he'd have brought to Everton.

Out of those, he signed Soucek and Bowen would have improved the Everton team of that period. But not many others.

Yes, I take the point on the kids, he will need help. I'm suspicious of Kinnear though, and his system. On what basis are we thinking this system will succeed? Does he have any track record of showing how his new flatter system will succeed?

Any system is only ever as good as the people inputting the data, and I would suggest with Brighton — whilst they may have efficiencies we can only dream of — they also have very capable people overseeing it.

I'm not sure Kinnear and his mates fit into that category. they may do; it's all to play for. But the key figure at the club is Moyes.

I think this is one of those strange occasions where people who broadly agree with each other manage to have an argument on social media because we're all chipping into a meandering conversation.

I'm not trying to say Moyes was a good fit as manager 2016 to 2021. Sadly I think he had a nervous breakdown or something like it after the Man Utd job and it took a long time for him to rebuild. It was more a comment on our crap transfer record at that point – and where we are now, responding to Kevin.

You gave me a right belly larf with this one:

with a view to fast-tracking them once acclimatised

Sorry, you can't be talking about Everton and Moyes. More like hold 'em back until they kick and scream. Or just send 'em out on loan so they are not pestering you for a game.

When you're in with the big boys you need top people not the two Muppets that were previously in charge.

The whole club corporate strategy, marketing, football etc needs a major rethink which I am glad to say looks underway.

Hopefully we have learned. from the Moshiri era.

As I keep repeating myself, and I get the economics. It's like the difference between shopping in Waitrose or Lidl.

I'm not denying what you say about expenditure Robert, but even now, It's not always what you spend, it's how you spend it. There is value for money out there.

Ryan, from what I've read, and heard, Moyes will influence. The recruitment team will do what is says on the tin. Then Moyes can agree or disagree. He may well get the final say, but it may not happen with every player.

Kevin, maybe a fair point. Moyes has uncovered a fair few hidden gems. But there were also a few expesive failures.

But then name me any manager or DoF who doesn't have either?

Forget 84, you'll be as young as what will then be my 54 when you enter that stadium!!

This 'flat' recruitment system is just acknowlegement that there's specialists in different fields and all contribute to the process.

I doubt very much that any manager ever discussed the fine print of a contract with any player or his agent.

So recruitment look at players and suggest them to the manager, he OKs them, finance set the budget and contract guys go do the negotiation and signing.

If you would have been told these three people were to join Everton 12 months ago you would have said "Impossible" when you bear in mind their current roles and clubs at the time.

It also shows that the TFG and Everton have pulling power, they have been sold a vision and have been suitably impressed to join the club; that itself is a major step forward...

Maybe he learned quite a bit as a young manager in his handling of Rooney. Because I remember being frustrated that he rarely completed 90 minutes at Everton yet was ever present as soon as he was available at Man Utd.

Since then, he gave fair opportunity to James Vaughan (when not injured), Rodwell, Gosling and various others such as Magaye Gueye and Vellios.

He never gave much opportunity to Ross Barkley, which was disappointing. And we didn't see anybody feature towards the end of the season just gone despite us being comfortably safe for a number of weeks.

I think he tends to dither more with new signings. I find it very rare that, unless forced to do so, he will bring someone in and play them from the off in their best position.

Jagielka and Lescott were played out of position when they first arrived. Baines couldn't get a game. He dithered over signing Arteta and played him on the right-hand side of midfield for a long time. He didn't trust Seamus at right-back until 3 years after he started playing for us.

I thought it was just me who held those grudges!

But what about Jake O'Brien? Trying to recall if that was forced by injuries?

Dyche never got this kind of abuse despite being shocking while he was here. If he had remained and we had stayed up with about 20 odd points people would be praising the job he was doing in trying circumstances.

Moyes effects an immediate upturn in fortunes helped in no small part by his selection/tactical changes they are also being used against him as some kind of indicator of his 'strange' thought processes. What gives?

Really, most good managers do little more than hold a club at or around the level they should be at based on investment in the playing squad (transfers, wages, youth academy etc). Moyes (and Dyche) are hated for not outperfoming much, much better resourced clubs (even though they were often outperforming their level of investment).

Very few materially over-achieve – and pretty much none on a sustained basis (although both Moyes and Dyche would have a good case in that respect).

Managers like Mourinho and Simeone get called out as game changers – and they are (or have been) great managers. But these were managers who have typically always had a huge budget relative to peers, a highly developed recruitment strategy (which they don't oversee), as well as access to great players from a successful youth academy (again, which they don't oversee).

Simeone has really only outperformed the level of investment at Atletico 2 or 3 times in his long tenure there.

Ancelotti is clearly an outstanding manager too - but was not a good fit for a club pretending to be rich. Dyche was a great fit for us for the first 18 months or so and did an exceptional job during a period of extreme cost-cutting and unfair points deductions – which would have destroyed other clubs.

Moyes is a great fit for us now for the next few years when we'll be rebuilding and cash constrained.

Sorting out the operational staff and (as Jerome says) the academy, is hugely important – and if we get it right, then it equips us to be the sort of club that can help a future Mourinho or Simeone succeed. We're a long way off that due to Moshiri pulling the plug nearly 5 years ago, but we have to start somewhere.

I don't mind answering that one.

Firstly, don't be under any doubt that Dyche got his fair share of stick and by the end, the majority of supporters wanted him out and made that clear.

I don't see much abuse about Moyes, either on here and definitely not at the match.

In trying to explain, I think it needs to be understood that there are deep-rooted concerns over his previous term as manager.

The manner in which he engineered his move away. Not that anyone would have denied him the opportunity to go to Manchester United, more the cloak-and-dagger way it was engineered and the lack of transparency. He could have told us as soon as the January, when it was pretty much common knowledge.

Then his close relationship with the previously underperforming board. That sits uncomfortably with a lot of supporters.

Being in his comfort zone and his, sometimes very good teams, choking on the big occasions, down to his tactics.

I'm not necessarily speaking for myself 100% on those points, just trying to add some context to your question based on regular conversations I have with fellow Evertonians.

Nothing to do what he has achieved since his return, but some have doubts on his ability to take us to where we want to be long-term. I do. But I'm willing to give him a short-term chance.

I was a sceptic when he came back, but myself and just about everyone I know is okay with him. For now.

He's now got a full season to prove himself. I hope he succeeds and brings us a trophy home next year.

“Money can make you lazy” - what a phrase from Marcel Brands, during one of his very first interviews (he spoke more on his first day, than TFG have spoken since they got here) and with regards our once very successful academy, spoken like a true prophet!

I threw my hat into the ring last November on here in advocating David Moyes as Sean Dyche's short-term replacement and copped a fair bit of stick for it, justifiably too, but I thought he could get more out of the squad than Dyche and ensure we weren't relegation material.

I didn't (and still don't) feel comfortable with Moyes building a new team in his image but I am resigned to it. The shortcomings over his approach to big games, tactics and failure to be anything other than a dour, pragmatic Scot against top clubs just drove me to distraction.

I think he is a good pair of hands but I suspect there is a massive shortfall between his and my aspirations. But that's irrelevant because he is the man. For now.

TFG don't appear to take prisoners when it comes to getting rid of managers, so the luxury of time might be something that is in short supply for him going forward.

Anyone at Goodison when Moyes mk1 oversaw his last game will tell you he was sent on his way to Man United with the warmest of goodwill from the faithful.

In fact I will take it further than that. He left to thunderous applause from all four sides o the ground.

I've been a critic of Carlo and you are right he was an abysmal Everton manager, but even when he took the piss he did it with charm and diplomacy - Even fooling some of the more gullible that he was still an Evertonian.

Our boy Davey didnt just lose the goodwill of the faithful when he came back trying to exploit our clubs financial situation. He actually turned stomachs with his derisory joint offer for our chief goal threat and our full back - Tellingly not Seamus.

I know a few people who would die or this club. People who havent missed a match for years and they will NEVER forgive Moyes for the way he conducted himself after being knocked back.

Still struggling with that one myself to be honest, Grant

Sack or Dirty Tricks?

"The head of academy recruitment suspended by Everton amid tapping up claims has joined a sports agency.

Martin Waldron was told to stay away from the club in September, after the Premier League launched an investigation into allegations that Everton had tapped up a Cardiff City schoolboy.

The Merseyside club were eventually fined £500,000 and banned for two years from signing players of an Academy age.

Waldron was the subject of an anonymous letter sent to the Premier League which claimed he approached the boy and his family when he was 11 or 12 offering the youngster a place at a school associated with the club along with rent-free accommodation and £600 family allowance per month.

However, Liverpool-based INS Sports Management have now announced Waldron's arrival as their Head of Football.

They describe Waldron as 'an exciting addition to the INS team and add 'he is renowned for his honest and longstanding relationships with players and parents'.

'Martin subsequently built the Everton recruitment department into one of the best in Europe,' the INS website adds.

Following the Premier League's ruling, Everton apologised and said they were 'extremely disappointed with some of the practices we have found which are not in line with our values and not acceptable'.

Everton declined to state whether Waldron had been sacked or left of his own accord."

I cited his son employed by Everton as a example of nepotism, not knowing any better. I withdraw that view.

It does seem that the TFG are following the American pivate equity way in sports of continuity and data. They are quietly restructuring Finch Farm and bringing in necessary change.

In hindsight, it was a good move for the club at the time. But now the next stage.

I too don't think we should be building a team in his image, and that's not a dig at him, it's just he won't be here for long. Maybe another two seasons, depending on how this next one goes. There will be more pressure on him than previously.

To Tony's point, there needs to be more focus on the academy. It doesn't always take money. Manchester United have recently discovered that. It's how clever you are in development and investment.

Colin, yes. He came back for Baines and the permed one. He ended up getting Fellaini, but for once, the club, at the time, held out for a last minute deal and United ended up paying more than they could have got Fellaini for.

I bear no personal grudge. I just doubt whether he is the person to take us forward. My own personal opinion, and if I'm proven wrong, I don't think he is. That isn't abusing him Grant, it's just an opinion.

Let's not also forget we witnessed some of the most horrendous capitulations under Moyes's tenure. Notably the 7-1 and 6-1 defeats to Arsenal, getting tonked at home to Bolton 4-0 was an embarrassment.

Hoping Moyes Mk 2 is away with those margin of defeats and we can also go into every game with the mindset of winning. No more knives to a gunfight.

For me, he has credit in the bank, but inevitably, he'll be judged on next season.

I can only think of recent(ish) graduate, Antonee Robinson, who has kicked on to be a serious Premier League regular. Unfortunately, not for us. We've made a few bits and bobs on transfers but the only one I can think of involving semi-serious money was Tom Cannon, and even he was only around £8M.

Let's hope Harrison Armstrong proves to be an exception. We could do with one.

I'll judge on future results rather than replaying his past mistakes. We need steady progress back into the Top 10 and then go from there.

If he's still here in two seasons' time, he's achieving the clubs immediate goals and that's no bad thing.

Realistacially – a word some of you don't like – if you are facing a team with a much better squad, can you expect to win? Yes, you hope for a win and we might beat them sometimes, but you will lose the majority of the time. Moyes will only do well if we sign at least 4 outstanding players.

Robert @ 46 sums it up better than I can, top managers can't do it without top players. I do get what is said by some about Moyes being too conservative to build a trophy-winning team, but I have to disagree.

I might like it better if I could find it in a dictionary, Raymond!

Rightly or deluded, my expectation for Everton is that the bar should be set high.

We should never play it down. This is a time for opportunity, not playing it down.

We will wait and see who we sign.

But I am sure Baines thwarted Moyes's attempted robbery. Having had to pay more for FellainI than he originally offered for the pair. He needed Baines to agree to a move to make it happen. Unlike Fellaini. Baines wouldnt play ball.

Leighton Baines - Just in front of Big Nev and Just behind Colin Harvey.... Fucking miles ahead of Davey Moyes

“I'm told we're interested in Barry and not so much Walker, but chances of signing either or both couldn't say for sure, don't think anything is imminent but let's see.”

What a load of utter tosh. Something may happen, Something may not. Now I see where Trump is getting it from.

I think Martin Waldron's biggest mistake was getting caught, grassed on by an anonymous letter.

He was just doing what most clubs do and at a higher grade; his talent has never been questioned.

They are all at it, whispering in players' and parents' ears and making (often false) promises.

Liam, totally. When I was coaching at Hayes & Yeading, Watford were terrible, talking to parents and young players without approaching us. They were usually just mopping up half decent players up to surround them by one or two they thought would make it.

I'll give Tottenham their due. They had an eye on one of our players, who was very good aged 14. Their scout had the decency to approach us and ask us if he could take him for trials.

It didn't come off for the lad, but at least they went about it the right way.

He didn't agree to sign in the first place.

Waldron had a lot of scouts and loads of contacts and a lot of these would have been instantly lost when he took the rap for something that goes on everywhere.

His son was allegedly very good at his job and it looks like he has had some very good jobs since he left Everton but it's definitely been downhill for the Everton academy since his father left and it wouldn't surprise me if he was reinstated now Moyes is back at the club.

My problem has always been with the actual coaching. I haven't got any actual insight but I look at the kids who have come through over the last so many years, and although some of them have earned the club a fortune in transfers (some of those sales might have actually kept us in business), most of them have just been methodical footballers.

They invite teams in to play against their development squads, which I suppose makes these teams feel good for getting invited, but it can be very disruptive when they offer some kids a trial, and can leave a lot of competitive teams in limbo.

I always hear that the coaching is better but my own view is that the thing that helps bring on kids the most is that the competition is a lot tougher in the higher academies.

I'm waiting for an innovator, I'm waiting for someone to teach the kids the absolute importance of movement!

Had a couple of kids who were in academies at young age were released and then ended up playing for us. They were like shells.

Enjoyment had been taken out of the game and they were just identikit footballers. Good touch, decent passing etc, but no imagination left. Drilled out of them.

I’m getting old, I’ve thought about doing things with the kids that might take a little bit of their enjoyment away, but in the back of my head, I’m convinced that it might have the opposite effect!

Two and three touch - play simple - stop looking for the hard pass - start looking for the next pass - work - move - you can only keep things simple if your teammates keep moving into the right spaces - keep playing - never stop trying to play!

We have all seen it done, but not really by the English🤷‍♂️

It sounds like I’m thinking of turning them into shells myself,but not if they are always going to be looking for the ball!

No, it's because you keep giving the bloody ball away 🤣

My 'coaching' was always about providing defensive shape and positioning and a good structure. At grassroots you often have differing abilities, so making sure they didn't let loads of goals in was the foundation.(In our final season at U16 we conceded 16 goals in 18 games - lost the league by a point but man for man we were miles away from the other sides at the top)

But getting players to be comfortable on the ball, move it quickly, move into space etc was always very difficult. You have to have a certain level of ability/skill to do that. I probably had half and half in my teams, but that was because we insisted that it was for kids local to the area. We never really brought kids in from far away.

I just always saw good coaching about trying to get them to play as well.and be as competitive as possible. Loved it tbh and got just as much pleasure from the lads who could barely kick a ball straight at 10, but got decent enough to play in defence in the final of a County Cup as the lads who have gone on to get professional contracts

Everything starts with hard work. Lately I’ve been thinking is this why you don’t see that many players following their pass (watching England last week, only Eze, really tried to follow his pass) or is it because we aren’t really coached this way in our country?

But also, even playing football on the streets it's different from what I've seen abroad. Last summer I went to Morocco and at 6 every morning on the beach, literally hundreds of kids played small sided games and trained on pitches drawn in the sand. They were being coached but these pitches didn't have goals! They were just passing and moving and keeping the ball. It was eye opening.

Not everyone can be good enough to be comfortable on the ball. I get that, but I just don't think it's a trait 'we' have ingrained as a nation. I think it's improved massively since the 80s, but I still think we are miles off some of the European nations for passing and moving.

I watched the young Portuguese midfielders in the CL final and the Nations League final and was mesmerised - how do you get that good at football and so comfortable with the ball? How do you get that faith in your fellow players that they wont lose it and will get it to you when you move into space?

Its like a different game at times to what I know and it fascinates me as to how they do it.

But apart from goalhangers upfront and the slow and Idle at the back it was a game of movement.

It didn't matter if there were only two of us - we'd play SPOT.

If there were 3 we played '2 and in'. 1 on 1 and 1 in goal first to score 2 goal stayed on. Movement and running.

Sometimes games would expand to mega size 15, 16+ aside...especially when the pubs let out at 2PM on a Sunday afternoon - with a mega 'pitch' to suit, no lines, no throw Ins.

If the ball went out, eg, too far away for idle bastards to fetch, anybody (from 1 side or the other, first there, first served) keen (young) and fit enough (me back then) would be off after the ball like a little Jack Russell, then head off towards the opposition goal. Running and movement.

The 3 Gs...or 4, 5, 6. Get It, Give It, Go! (Get it again, etc.)

Screens and motor cars ferrying kids about...nobody walks anymore, oh plenty of people 'go for walks' but walk from A to B as a means of transport? Nah.

Fitness; it wasn't an everyday thing but back then we'd think nothing of biking from Garston to say Ormskirk of Frodsham 20 & 13 miles respectively (google) just for something to do.

Most regular readers will know my views on academies and youth coaching.

When I coached, I brought a lot in from my own experience. When I was asked to assist, I observed for a bit and was dismayed at the style of "coaching".

Standing in the centre circle smoking and chatting and just telling the kids to run to the touch line and back and do their own stretches. They couldn't demonstrate and didn't get involved. No ball work.

Obsessed with winning and formations. Before I took over, as the kids were about to move from 7-a-side to 11-a-side, the first session I watched, they spent nearly an hour on the formation and offside rule. They were bored shitless.

And this was the youth setup of a semi-professional club.

Don't talk to me about parents. I told them to encourage, by all means. That is natural. But don't be "coaching" your son during the match and sending confusing messages, when I am instructing them to do something else. They can have that conversation when they get home. That was my only rule.

But I could see potential, so I stepped in.

My approach was all to do with the football. Even the warm ups were focussed on the football and movement. Stretches were mobile, not static and I always participated.

I didn't over-coach, but stepped in when necessary to explain something. I think they can still hear me: "STOP, STAND STILL"!! If anyone moved I shouted louder and told them to get back to where they had been.

Then, I could point out the shape and pattern of play. A run a player could have made. How others could have supported. An easy pass that could have been made. The defence watching, not following the ball. A full back worrying about a player pulling wide when the ball was on the other side of the pitch. Stay compact and deal with that if it comes; don't leave space between you and your centre back, because someone will run into it. Simple things and one I always remember, explaining to a very good player, that if he'd had the confidence to use his left foot instead of his right to put the ball out under pressure in the corner, it would have been a throw in, not a corner.

Pre-season, I used to take them to a local 400m track and take them through some cheeky exercises. Pyramids on the track, bleep tests, lots of core exercises.

This was all training by the way. During the match, I just used to encourage, instruct and explain. I rarely shouted. I reiterate, at youth level, although we all want to win a football match, it was more about the development of those young lads. As footballers and people.

Most importantly, my last message was consistent before they went on the pitch. Go and enjoy it. Simple as that. Football is simple if you don't make it complex.

I think I managed to convert a few into privately being closet Evertonians. Most were the usual; Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, inevitably Liverpool and Manchester United, but they always asked me about Everton.

On Everton and grass roots, many know may views. I don't like young players being sucked into academies at a very young age and living in a bubble. For most, it takes the enjoyment out it. I would rather see the club go out into the community and assist with grass roots football. Leave them in their natural environment until the time is right to bring them in.

Let them enjoy football. And to all coaches out there, enjoy coaching. I miss it.

I probably should have added, if we went down that route, it should be applicable to all clubs.

I know that geographical restrictions are already in place, maybe they could be tightened?

And where would it apply in Greater London? The distance between Uxbridge (west) and Dartford (east), is similar to that between Liverpool and Manchester, as the crow flies.

And where would it leave foreign youngsters? Probably no change, although post-Brexit, I think it's now 18 years old whereas previously it was younger?

I don't have the answers, just thoughts. Mine are probably unrealistical.

I didn't know that Waldron son had moved on as well.

I remember a discussion on a obscure ToffeeWeb Thread were a number of fans , yourself and AJ Thompson being amongst them, who actually went to youth game and had information on players and what was going on, though they found the Club kept information very much under wrapped.They noticed that after Unsworth that Brands had lowered the age profile of bringing players forward, which would have needed the Head of the Academy to be very capable.This was accompanied bringing the youth setup more in line with how the squad were playing.Unsworth pushed the U23's and had them playing differently.Maybe this is why Waldron going had such a effect.

Once a team is on a relegation dog fight youth is given miss anyway.

The difference is coaching could be this push on trend , whose outcome is a bit up on the air.

I must say I learnt alot by that obscure thread ,and was put right on assumptions and what I thought the problem was , by people who knew what they were talking about.

That’s a great story about those young Morrocans, Liam, and brings me back to a story I’ve told before. Liverpool schoolboys under 11’s, were playing in a tournament in Spain, and warming up before a game. A Barcelona coach walking past said to one of the parents, “you’re English?” “Yes” said the parent, “how did you know?” “Because it’s only the English, who let their kids warm up in the goal”

You sounded like a sensible coach, Danny, also doing things for the right reasons, and dismayed is a great explanation because I’ve been having similar thoughts watching our kids now playing in a formation they don’t really understand.

You took me back Derek, and made me remember a time when most little street gang’s used to have a football with them, but when Liam says it’s cultural, my own view is that we need to change our culture!

“Get it and play it until it comes out your ears” is a phrase I will never forget, especially because it came from a man who won two European cups, with little Nottingham Forest.

Football has changed, you only have to look at the amount of jobs Everton, are creating just in recruitment alone, but it will always be a simple game, best applied by the people who know how to naturally simplify it, imo.

If you've had more than 2 touches, 95% of the time you've had too many.

The goalie story made me laugh - although tbf that is changing a lot now even in grass roots. Goalies are encouraged to play with feet and join in drills.

Although the 'play from the back' mantra can cause some fingers over the eyes moments. My view on that is that you all have to be bloody good on the ball to even try it!

On the cultural thing, I firmly believe that the 70s/80s FA regime under Charle Hughes and the 'Positions Of Maximum Opportunity'

theory had a massive effect on coaching and football in general which set young players back for decades. We are only just recovering from it.

Look at the Holy Trinity midfield - that was technically as good as anything. Other teams had similar (Leeds, City, Utd etc). But it literally disappeared for 30/40 years. Suddenly you had big physical grocks taking the place of football players. Passing, moving and knitting up play wasnt valued. In fact, after Wenger came in a tried to reintroduce that type of play, he had to go abroad to find the players. The well was dry in England. Carlton Palmer was getting games in the national team!

The first pass you see is usually the best one. See it, play it, and don't care if that is short, long, channel or a cute reverse pass and through ball.

I prefer the Dutch and German systems, only because I've experienced and watched them.

One of the best sessions I saw was by a Dutch coach. You were talking 5 year olds.

Every kid had their own ball. No training. He told them that the ball was their dog and they had to give it a name, keep it close and look after it.

Different coloured cones all over the pitch.

Green cone. He told them it was a tree. Take your dog for a pee.

Black cone. He told them they had to take them to the other call of nature.

There were others. Each time, they had to return with their ball or dog.

He had a mini-goal set up, and at the end, he said they could now let their dog go, but make sure you get it back.

Total genius, because those kids were so focussed on the ball.

I think so many people in England have experienced really bad coaching (also discussed on this thread) that they're struggling to see the benefit of coaching.

That's why it's really worth looking at the footage of good coaching – and how enjoyable and rewarding that is for the kids.

I am now genuinely at a belief that the Barcelona version is based on “moving that extra yard”.

But there's a big difference coaching elite players and grassroots. It's often a wider thing including community, making friends and connections. All the lads I coached are 18 or so now and the dads and lads still meet up every few months for a drink. Usually go and catch a non-league game and then it gets a bit messy. 🤣

They all still mostly play at various levels but the lads miss the camaraderie of playing with their mates. Talking about getting back up for next season for one last go before they all go open age or to uni etc.

Feel like I'm actually learning stuff! Nice one, guys.

Nice to have some reasonable back and forth, rather than the pot shots at each other, that some threads seem to end up at.

It wasn't hard to predict the winners because of the sheer physicality they possessed and although we got a draw against them, I think we might have done even better if our kids would have understood their new system a little bit more.

My gripe with these elite academies is that everything is now about playing out from the back (it's the same watching most football now) very few teams no longer try and mix it up, and most teams now work that hard on the first phase, that they seem to neglect the second phase, imo.

It won't be the same if you get back together, Liam, (there's always changes!) but if the lads are still close-knit, then this is another thing that is really underestimated. Good luck! 🍀

Walker almost bowled off the wrong foot and Thomson who was one of if not the fastest bowler ever was asked to describe his action and his reply was, "I just run in and go whoosh". He once bowled a bouncer in a Test at the WACA which went over the batsman's head, over the keeper and over the boundary on the full for six wides!

My stepson, who I raised from 3 years old, was invited at 15 to train with the Oz Test team at the WACA ground and came home raving about Ricky Ponting. I asked him if he got anyone out and he said, "Just Lehman and McGrath" and I said, "oh, nobody good then".

I still regard as my greatest compliment the father, a Yorkshire man, of a young bowler I coached saying that nobody had explained to him before how to make a ball swing both ways and he was the highest wicket taker in the U15s comp. And I told him that I explained it but his son knew how to use which swing and when.

With so many of the U21S matches I watch (now very infrequently) and the youth set-up my son plays – many of them seem to know what the first 3 passes are to play out from defence and break a press.

However, having done that, they don't know what the next pass is! So it breaks down and (in Everton U21s) the ball then goes sideways or backwards – and in grassroots U11s people just get their heads down and start pointlessly dribbling into nowhere.

With English football (my era at least), I've always felt as though attacking plays were treated as spontaneous, requiring a bit of genius – and that only defensive plays and set pieces could be organised.

Whereas with the Dutch, Latin teams etc, it came together much better as a holistic whole. Attack is just as organised as defence.

Being a quick off the mark, stand-off, I fancy I would have been okay with a round ball.

Talking about football, coaching different age groups will be different won't it?

Football is a more complicated game than Rugby; to make a decent player, I guess you need to have natural physical ability and a resonable level of intelligence for starters.

Well, at least you're an Evertonian. Up the Saints.

For far too long, these positions have been filled by ex-player mates of Boys Pen Bill.

France have won two World Cups by simply becoming as physical as The English used to be, whereas England, have been concentrating on being hard to beat, and haven't really looked like they know how to take it to the next level under Southgate.<

He still deserves credit for his achievements but, with the players in his squad, I still believe he should have done more because we still lack real movement further up the pitch.

I enjoyed that post, Alan J, the kid already had the talent, so it sounds like you have just talked him through how to get the most out of his natural ability.

Out of all the sports in the world, Ray, I liken football to Rugby League more than anything else. I was slow, but I had two good feet and I was sharp, and the stick I got off the coaches for going back in instead of playing that boring come out the other side, even though you have your opponent beat because he was slightly out of position, used to really frustrate me.

Playing at a very good level, I lost count of the number of times one of my teammates would come up to me and apologise for not being switched on to my clever little reverse pass, whilst getting screamed at by whoever was taking the team!

How many tries are created by that clever little reverse pass in Rugby League? I'll leave that to the people who know more about Rugby League to tell me!

Its the half backs who are usually equivalent to the creative midfielder in football Tony.

I know exactly what you mean. Although I played at the lowest level - bog standard Sunday League - I approached the game quite differently if I was playing up front (as usual) than if I played as a centre back (which I did now and again). When defending, it was all about concentrating, when attacking it was more to do with improvising and taking a chance.

Also, I was way more aggressive when I played as a defender! I considered a 50-50 to be my ball, basically, Whereas playing up front, I was less ruthless somehow, thinking it was more a matter of me outwitting the opponent than overpowering him. A good coach could have trained that out of me, I guess.

PS: when it comes to rugby league, I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm a bit of a glory hunter! St Helens were the team when I was a kid, but as someone from Speke I should really have been supporting Widnes or Warrington. Hey, it's too late now.

That squad of players will improve with every passing season and the friendship will get stronger each year and will frequently become friends for life whether with football or just staying mates but football was the social activity that brought them together.

Just watching some of the England - India test match. Those Indian batsmen have great technique!

Maybe it's cos they all play the equivalent of the old street football on those dirt tracks cricket squares!

What comes across in all the posts is the joy that people take in passing on knowledge to young players. There's nothing better than showing a player something, watching them put it in place in the game, and turning to you with a big smile on their face! 🤗

On playing out from the back, I understand it. Draw the opposition in to make space. But sometimes I've watched Pickford and Tarkowski playing it to each other only to do what they could have done anyway and pump it forward.

I remember under Martinez we were doing it. Sometimes playing a diamond off the keeper, Barry and the centre-backs playing it amongst themselves. I was always thinking, at some point, the ball needs to move forward.

The reverse pass, Tony, my favourite as it splits defences. You don't need pace. Speed of mind and vision. The importance is having a runner to get on the end of it. They are the ones you shout at, not the player making the pass into space.

I remember Nick Hancock presenting on TV and saying when he was a teacher he was constantly yelling "Stop Bunching" as 11 kids followed the ball. That was kids' football 40 years ago.

And we always come back to the phrase "can't kick with his X foot". Remember when Rooney scored his first against Arsenal and Martin Tyler's comment was "Rooney… Instant control" before Wayne put it over Seaman and off the underside of the crossbar.

You are right, it is all about loving the ball, learning to play with both feet, and enjoying it.

As TS Eliot put it in 'The Hollow Men': "Between the idea and the reality falls the shadow". Less poetically, it's a proof/pudding thing. If it doesn't work then it's effectively a bad idea (99 times out of 100).

To lay my cards on the table, I was never really a fan of Big Dunc. My all-time favourite Everton player is Leighton Baines, the polar opposite of Ferguson in many ways. So, yeah, I'm glad LB is on our coaching team rather than DF.

I referenced that as it was educational to me when I was doing my FA Level 2 badge and found it interesting teaching young players to look after the ball.

Debate, disagree by all means, but this thread hasn't been self-congratuling. It has been various people taking from different experiences.

Just think he left too much unsaid...

For far too long, these positions have been filled by ex-player mates of Boys Pen Bill.

I agree it’s great telling and showing kids who are interested in learning. This team I’ve been helping has got some good little footballers and I was having a laugh juggling the ball, and I said to one of the kids, that when I was his age I was keeping a tennis ball up for 200.

I said this because he had been practicing and improving with a smaller ball, and then I was lying in bed watching one of my subtitled shows on Netflix (I keep the sound down and only watch subtitles) and my partner was telling me she was looking at the little kid juggling on the group WhatsApp.

Thud, thud, thud, is all’s I could hear and without looking I thought to myself he’s only really using one foot. The next day I was talking to him when he was off the pitch and he told me he had been juggling with a tennis ball.

I was laughing, when he told me he got over 150, and said to him I haven’t seen it but that’s brilliant that kid, except it sounded to me like you mostly only used one foot.

He showed me and I was right, “how did you know” he asked? “I just had a feeling by the noise”, I said!

“What’s so good about it anyway” he asked, it improves your concentration, and when you juggle with both feet you learn to dance and create a softer touch, which is also great because you start playing off your toes, instead of your sole.

He went on the pitch, the keeper kicked the ball and it was well on its way out of play, and this little kid just flew across the ground and kept it in.

That was incredible the way he kept that ball in then, the opposing manager said, and I just looked at the little fella and said that’s what juggling does for you kid, it makes you sharper and more alert!

Sorry for the monologue, but we always become what we are taught, imo.

In it, he says about academies that it's hammered into kids about the 10-yard pass. No further. That they are hung out of if they do anything further or inventive.

The geordie girl buys into the defensive passing out route that is the Coaching Way. The old arses were gobsmacked how ingrained it is.

Dyche gets players, like at Everton, who literally wont pass it further. In post-match analysis, he points out to them that the ball over the top or a cross to put someone in was the correct one n– ot the safe pass that got played.

The players sat blank-faced. It doesn't compute. They are brought through academies to play 10y ards. That's all. They aren't allowed to do anything else.

So much so, you can't undo it. You try. You shout. You order them. But they revert to what is ingrained.

He says the likes of Trippier, who naturally can pass a ball onto a shilling from anywhere, would have been lost to football.

Say what you like about Dyche but academies and FA coaching are the worst thing for football. And I hope TFG rip up the corporate propaganda FA Manual of shite!

It's when I watch most English footballers that I begin to think our coaching is still years behind. I think like this because it seems to me that very few people can coach something they've never really been good at, because they were never taught themselves.

Barcelona mostly pass the ball 10 yards, and PSG, who played a more exciting version than Pep's carousel, also mostly passed the ball no further than 10 yards.

The difference is movement, and I remain convinced that this is now the greatest skill in the modern game.

One of my favourite players at Everton over the last 25 years was little Steven Pienaar, and the reason for this was because he had absolutely terrific movement; I'm certain this was coached into him at an early age.

I'd try and get Pienaar to change the structure of thought in our academy, and then I'd try and restructure everything else!

Having watched the likes of Barca, PSG etc etc, I am very confident that their academy players are not being taught to only pass the ball 10 yards. I expect the same is true of quality UK academies like Man City and Chelsea. After all, the academy system (while it has its issues) seems to now have produced the most consistent conveyor belt of technically able players I've ever seen for England. Just as it has for France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium and Portugal etc.

Of course, all of these academy players will make a high ratio of 10-yard passes (because they can control a ball properly in tight spaces), but that doesn't preclude a ball over the top etc.

The RS still rely very heavily on long / direct diagonals from the full-back position, so a player like Trippier wouldn't have been lost to the academy system there presumably. And to be honest I think he was probably lost at Man City because they would have had at least two experienced internationals at right-back when Trippier was coming through. They sell tonnes of quality youngsters – it's a key part of the academy model.

It would surprise me if coaches at less celebrated academies are under the impression they are doing it the Barca etc way, when in fact they don't really understand what they are doing. Although again, had Trippier come through at Everton, you get the sense he'd have done fine. Because he's talented and we've had very little or no competition at right-back for years.

It comes back to the point Tony and I discussed earlier where you can see that there has been some rehearsal of the first phase (playing it out from the back in precarious fashion) but no attention paid to the next phase (where it all breaks down).

Whatever the case, there is definitely room for variety in good coaching - and variety in tactics too. I'm not averse to a bit of direct play (ie, long diagonals etc) and sometimes it will make total sense to knock the ball over the top of a high press - especially if you've got attacking players who thrive off that (ie, strong, fast and good technique).

You got that right in one regarding Waldron. He imo was shafted.

Tony #78,

I thought exactly the same regarding Unsworth's self-promotion. He really should not have been allowed to build U-23 teams, up against lower age profile teams from other academies.

Brands does come across as weak throughout.

Robert @ 111
I think you will find City and Chelsea do do it that way. The Pep way as its called apparently.
As for the barca psg etc they buy players for vast sums who fit into predisposed systems which their coaches follow.
Remember years ago it was Total Football. Ajax were the ideal model. But havent won anything outside of their very weak domestic league in a long time.

The point made on the programme was Liverpool won the title because they were able to vary their style. Using four or five styles throughout the season. That way all other teams who play at the 10 yd pass game came unstuck. They couldnt adapt to a tactical switch by opponents Coz they do the ridiculous passing out from the back and have no other way. Short 10 yds

Other things said were the academies killed football at a young age. kids should just enjoy playing. Not be playing in systems and patterns.

I agree. Natural footballers cannot be coached. Ever. You watch them and learn no matter how old you are
Coaching should be about how to not conform to.
Developing the skills of players. Not stifling them so they fit into a system.
Most kids going via academies wont ever play professionally. So why not let it be enjoyable before you shatter the dream.
But that is just my humble and non conformist opinion

It takes someone really innovative to get ahead of the curve and change things. Moyes is not that man and I’m not convinced this structure that has been appointed are either. Whilst I will not stand to be corrected on Moyes, I will on the others.

Moyes couldn’t win a major trophy if his life depended on it. I’m not sure he could even win a game at Anfield under the same circumstance.

Football is a simple game and all we need is to find a way of having good football players at the football club. That’s the fundamental. The coaching and style of play etc - that is all nuance and may be the difference between winning and losing silverware - but that alone will never in a billion years put you in repeated contention.

Brilliant players will. And we have to find a way of getting them to the football club as well as producing them from within. Liverpool as a city has always been capable of producing a work class player each decade and certainly several top class players every decade. That should be our identity. Always.

In this country I would probably only suggest that the areas of Liverpool, Newcastle, South and North London and Manchester are capable of this or have a history of doing so.

Globally, I would suggest that liverool as a city produces the most top class footballers per top flight football club in their respective city. That’s why Everton have always been and always will be an elite club

Coaching by numbers - is how Robert described it, and this is the reason why I think loads of coaches follow the same code?

Natural footballers cannot be coached ever, is such a ridiculous statement, imo, although I agree that a lot of natural footballers have probably been coached out of the game by poor coaching.

A part of me is also non conformist when it comes to academies Martin, for the reasons you mention throughout your post and especially the bit about creating and then shattering a kids dream before he has even finished primary school.

If you’re trying to get a kid not to conform to coaching, then my favourite coach has got to be the father of those American tennis players Venus and Serena Williams?

Good footballers are just like good members of staff in any team or organisation.

They don’t hide. They seek opportunities and responsibility. They are dependable. They are consistent. They are obedient and deliver according to the objectives of the team. They improve themselves rather than relying on somebody to do that for them. They are willing to do what the majority of others are not. They have pride in their performance and in how they come across to others. They obligingly serve a public / customer / supporter. They give their all and leave nothing behind

It is probably as you say and I can see where you are coming from having thought the same. Though I have difficulty with trying to get my head around why then Unsworth ended up with two jobs, Head of the Academy and Manager of the U-23s.

Denise of Blue Balloons fame attributed the decision to Brands, I never had any confidence in her understanding of titles. I can still visualise an abashed Unsworth being honoured.

They are interlinked of course, because sometimes I think that people go on about coaches, when it's obvious that football becomes a lot easier to teach, when a manager has got more good players to choose from?

One game I always remember from the past is when Germany dismantled Maradona's Argentina in a World Cup match. It showed me the importance of how a well-coached team will always beat a team of very good individuals.

It was no surprise to me when Germany, who were rebuilding, went and won the next tournament that was played in Brazil, and I'm sure no Brazilian will ever forget how they were taken apart by such an incredibly well-coached team.

Tommy, I like that post @118, although you missed East London off the list.

I agree, there has to be ability there in the first place and that can be nurtured from a young age. They can be coached, but as I've said, I was never a big believer in over-coaching.

Tony, that was indeed a fine Germany team. One player, not an obvious one, in that squad at the time was Tony Kroos.

Slightly on theme, coached at his local club before moving onto bigger and better things.

Not blessed with pace, he beat opponents with running and vision. More renowned for his precision passing, both short, long, and delivery of set pieces. He could read the game, had vision, movement and saw space.

Back to Tommy's point, the natural ability was there, it just needed building on to let him play to his strengths.

But I’m of the opinion that some great managers can put well drilled teams together without necessarily stifling all individuality. Rooney didn’t become the player he was by coaching - it was inherent talent and innate instinct.

Modern football is killing the traditional number 9 who relies on the early ball into the box. Ball retention and constant recycling is making the game less exciting. It pains me to say it but Liverpool’s style of play is far more watchable than City’s which is akin to watching chess on the pitch. I fully expect Haaland’s form to dip at City.

Link

There's a lot of great players coming through some very intensive coaching systems at academies. Barca coach very intensively from a very young age - and have no shortage of great players over the years (including possibly the greatest ever player in Messi - and possibly the world's current best player in Yamal).

And Ajax haven't won on the big stage for a long time, Martin, that's true - but that is down to economics not the academy system. The Eredivisie doesn't generate enough TV revenue for Ajax to retain the brilliant players they continually produce. Nevertheless, they still build up brilliant sides now and again - like the one which went very close under Ten Hag before being dismantled and sold.

Through their very intensive coaching system they have produced (in recent years) Champions League and very good Premier league standard players in:

de Jong
de Ligt
Hato
Gravenberch
Timber
Timber
Botman
Kluivert
Onana
Malen
Mazraoui

And quite a lot of others.

These are generally all players from a 30 mile radius of the Ajax stadium.

Very impressive.

Back to coaching, the techniques were interesting. Hardly any shouting from the dugouts. The odd bit of encouragement and advice, but they left most of it for half-time and the debrief at the end.

To Robert's point, in different circumstances, both created top drawer players, but mostly sold them on at profit. In Schalke's case, they went too far and it cost them their Bundesliga status.

Passing and moving with that key word you mention, “intensity”, Robert, is the real key, mate.

Consider that attacking pressure is created by either winning second ball or creation of time and space through off-the-ball running and creating options. This is where the core of the team, midfield and attack, from box to box, must create panic by constant movement, drawing out players, creating gaps behind and confusing defences.

Rigid defences fail every time because it's impossible to pass players on, impossible to close them down without leaving gaps.

It is the best way to counter high-skilled opposition. Close them down, keep moving, keep them guessing. Do not tie individual players rigidly to a game plan but trust each to cover each other.

I'll give an example: 10 years ago, Leicester City won the Premier League without a single world-class player, in fact most if not all, had never been heard of. But together, this bunch of nobodies collectively beat all comers, a team who worked for each other and made it work.

Within a couple of years, the team had broken up, only a couple went on to excel, the rest back into obscurity. But they proved it could be done.

Everton have to find their right mix to build upon, but it's not all about the money, it's the team and manager getting the most from each other. Why can't the next team in blue to win the league be us?

Do any contributors have any idea as to why Scotland no longer seems to produce the tricky ball players, wingers like Jimmy(?) Johnson, Tommy Ring, Alex Scott and midfielders like John White, Bobby Collins, Bertie Auld, Gordon Strachan?

I'll leave Billy Bremner out, not to mention Alex Young, or is that type of player no longer a priority?

Scotland, like England, but on a smaller scale, has probably shifted focus on trying to focus on pace, strength and power.

A small nation, but used to produce some great players. You missed Dennis Law off that list and dare I say, Dalglish.

I'll standby for incoming, but there was no doubting was a great player his was.

On Scotland, it's an interesting one. I always use Croatia as an example. Similar size population, if anything, slightly smaller. But they always seem to produce really good footballers.

Once upon a time, kids would play in the streets, in the parks and on the ash pitches.

Now the facilities have improved, but the hours most kids are playing has been slashed. Standards are raised internationally, with the pool of talent less UK focused.

Read something that Portuguese football is at risk, as Brazilian players are coming to Europe direct more than coming via Portugal.

Hopefully a modern Patsy Nevin type?

As it happens that is about the change. Tony Bloom has had his initial investment into Hearts approved - and so they are due to get the same overhaul as Brighton and Saint-Gilloise in Belgium. The latter have recently won the title for the first time in their history with Bloom involved.

So it looks like Bloom will do at Hearts what he has done elsewhere: invest heavily into the academy and youth development - and source / trade players from low cost markets around the world. Scottish football (already awash with low quality players from around the world) and the national side should benefit from a general increase in standards. Much as RB investment in Salzburg and Liefering in Austria has transformed the standards of Austrian football and the depth of quality in the Austrian national side.

in the fifties,sixties and seventies there was a veritable conveyor belt coming out of Scotland.

Players who had taught themselves to become one with the ball long before they were introduced to a "coach". Looking after the ball was as important as being able to look after yourself in Glasgow back then.

Big powerful centerbacks who could all play.

Full backs who loved playing more in the opposition half than their own.

Midfield players who would step on their mothers grave to keep the ball.

Then there was the "tanner ball " players - The clue is in the name. They were given license to thrill.

England may have won the cup and been crowned world champions, but the Jocks knew they were better than us and couldn't wait to prove it.

It`s been well documented how the Scots players nearly came to blows when they finally got to face Sir Alfs wingless wonders. Half of them wanted to run up a cricket score and the other half wanted to take the piss. The piss takers won.

I was at the game as a youngster when they quite literally wiped the floor with us. I could hardly believe what I was seeing as Slim Jim Baxter (piss taker in general) repeatedly pirouetted away from angry England players and blew kisses to what must have been 80,000 jeering jocks.

I was a naive England supporter back then and it was fucking humiliating. The mocking jocks were unbearable...Lets hope its another fifty years before they produce players like that again

When Klopp, first came to Liverpool, he got them to a Europa league final, which they thankfully lost to a Spanish team, who were coached by Aston Villa’s current manager.

Liverpool beat Villarreal (I think) in the semifinal, and I remember Klopp, talking about how they overpowered their opponents.

Liverpool never had a powerful player in their team that night, and I was thinking, how the fuck have they overpowered anyone? The Spaniards were shite, and folded like a pack of fuckn cards.

I took my blue tinted glasses off and realised that Liverpool had overpowered their opponents because they never stopped running and the Spaniards simply couldn’t deal with their aggressive running, aided by the baying crowd.

Imagine fifty thousand Evertonians watching fast, aggressiv football, being played on the front foot and with real “INTENSITY” in Our new stadium?

Okay it’s not easy, not many of us are blessed with minds that have got an imagination that can stretch that far….. Over to you Danny…!!

It was a real shame that he never built on his tremendous first season; the club hasn't really had a good season since then.

You know me well now. I love seeing footballers comfortable on the ball and playing the game the way we want it to be played.

But you can't do that all of the time and without the other essential ingredients you and I often mention Aggression, intensity on and off the ball, and sheer desire to win a game of football.

You always have to have that in you. Those 40-60s that are not in your favour, but you go in brave and bold.

I think the best example I can use is to revert back to the Bayern Munich second leg. We were one of the best footballing teams in Europe. But that night, we fought like warriors. In hindsight, we were lucky not to get a couple of red cards.

I've ordered a couple of t-shirts off the Everton the Gear website. My son has the Lee Mavers one depicting the old Gwladys Street pre-roof extension. Mine is the one that uses his quote "supporting Everton is the most Scouse thing you can do". I'm already getting questions!!

They have a really good one and back to your points about aggression and intesity, an 80's style Adidas Munich trainer with the words underneath from the then Bayern coach: "Herr Kendall. Das ist kein Fussball".

Mr Kendall, that is not football.

It didn't matter. We adapted, smashed them into submission and beat them. What's the old saying? Win your battles and earn the right to play football. You know I have to say it, but Kevin Sheedy was the calmest player in the cauldron that was Goodison.

Kendall didn't need to coach in those games. As has been documented, He often told the players to listen to the supporters.

The Southampton semi-final at Highbury. Stoke away when we were struggling. Bayern Munich. Not always the same words, but essentially, listen to those supporters. Are you going to let them down?

Team talk done in very few words.

On your other point. We Evertonians are demanding, have expectations, are unforgiving if we don't see the passion in them that we have.

If they show it, it comes down from the stands. If they don't, we let them know in no uncertain terms.

It works both ways. We have to back them, that's our part. But they have to motivate us and get us off our seats.

I'm looking forward to that very steep blue wall on the south stand generating as much noise as Goodison did.

Timber - are they brothers? I'm not taking the piss. I have little to no knowledge of the most recent Ajax products.

Thing is, with all those players you mention, and over the years of them being produced plus money from frequent sales of others, I'd be fairly disappointed as an Ajax fan, to not have done anything in any of the European competitions.

They lie 30th in Uefa's coefficients table, below PSV and Feyenoord. So the question is: What or who are they producing great players for when they fail to take advantage other than in a poor domestic league?

Regarding great footballers from the past, the amount of them from Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Quite simply, it was all linked to poverty. How many landed gentry ever had Jeeves lace their boots for their moment of glory on the sod? Never, other than to tread on some surfs head.

Kids can play football with virtually anything. When there is nothing other than the street to play in. Today, the protection of not going out. A million TV channels on a 90" plasma wrap-around surround-sound sidebar TV in your bedroom.

Bountiful supply of PCs, consoles, phones etc. No sport of note in schools. No losing. A myriad of many things that vacuum your mind and ingenuity.

Let's hope we can add some more relatively obscure Illy types and decent midfielders — plus some net-stretchers.

He's just phoned to apologise that he can't do it. The cheapest such ticket on the Club website is £600 per head and the most expensive, £2000! Ah, you say, that's cos it's the first match in the new stadium; but you'd be wrong, as the prices for the next home game against Villa, are £650 and £2,200 respectively!

The Club site says, under the £2,000 tickets "only 4 remaining" - 2 months before the match!

I'm a middle-aged lawyer with decent earnings, but I can't get anywhere near £2,000 per match. So, who exactly is paying these prices?

The People's Club yeah, right!

You're my Everton - my only Everton was what the title of your last thread said, but it's important to understand Evertonians and I'm hoping this is something that David Moyes must do by now.

People have been complaining on TW since Adam was a lad that we don't maximise our potential, that we don't have enough “corporate“ revenue, not enough boxes etc. Yet when we start catching up with the pack, we're no longer the People's Club.

If your figures are correct, and I don't doubt them, then surely that's brilliant business, getting top dollar and being booked up weeks in advance?

Not having a pop at you, Nicholas, just making a point.

I think it was Christy that pointed out that the wages structure is different, lower than the Premier League. Celtic are Profiting with a lower standard of football, high season ticket sales, Cup runs and access to European Football.

That sets a comfortable standard for the main owner of Celtic Dermot Desmond a extremely shrewd business man.

So the standard through Scottish football has no room for anything more than squad players such is the success of the formula.

You need competition and striving to challenge to encourage Clubs to allow and develop the acceptable skills you suggest, and pay for them, to get that necessary extra edge imo.

In the past 20 years Scottish Football has gone back alot.Both Celtic and Rangers could have competed at the top of the Premier League. They are a long way off that now.

No argument with how Ajax fans must feel about the state of football. The will continue to win domestic titles on a regular basis and every 5 years or so build up an excellent side through the academy and youth development. That gives them a chance of European success now and again but the odds are hugely stacked against them - and even if they succeed all their best players will leave.

The fate is worse for clubs that used to be "big" when I was a little kid like IFK Gothenburg, Red Star Belgrade, Steau Bucharest, Rangers and Celtic. These clubs are now frozen out of competing altogether. They exist to compete for trophies in severely weakened domestic leagues and make money from player sales. Many players of any real quality will leave before they are 18 or 19 and join the academy of a Champions League giant or a development club in the likes of Belgium, Denmark or Austria.

We need to attract these young players and keep them if they're any good. I don't want to be a feeder club. Ajax and Red Bull Leipzig supporters must be sick of having their talent pinched.