Sources claim Thierno Barry signing is now very close

ESPN reported 20 minutes ago that Everton have finalized an agreement to sign Thierno Barry. Our new recruitment team bargained Villarreal down from the €40 million release clause to a €35 million deal, plus future add-ons.

And the club have agreed a four-year contract with Barry.

But the guy who got this one the earliest, far and away, was Paddy Boyland. The Athletic suggested way back on May 6 that Barry was a player Everton should, and would, pursue. And Boyland has tracked the progress of the pursuit all the way.

Will he play as a centre forward or just off Beto or whoever?

I can't see him wanting to stick around to play support if, eg, Leeds tell him they'll play him every week.

I wouldn't have thought so. He's done next to nothing with us and so he needs to prove himself at this level.

Meanwhile, another team could have scuppered the deal by agreeing the full amount.

The ghost of Chairman Bill still lingering in the corridors of Finch Farm? The sooner we get the new team in place, the better.

Really?

First, our chief negotiator didn't officially come aboard until about two weeks ago. Seems to me he got right on it.

And second, we weren't gonna sign anybody until the old PSR year was over... which was yesterday. (Or the day before in your time zone.)

Enjoy. We're active right out of the gate. When was the last time that happened?

That means we will have him, Barry and Chermitti as front men unless Chermitti is still considered a viable option.

As Mike states, we were never going to sign new players until after 30 June because of old PSR rules. So, if the news re Barry is accurate, this is impressive.

Bring it on!

BTW, has anyone on here a reasonable idea of how much in total weekly savings has resulted from all of the outgoing players?

I believe it was fairly common knowledge that Doucoure, Calvert-Lewin and Ashley Young were all on over £100k a week, so there's a £15M saving right there.

Mangala, Broja, Lindstrom and Harrison must account for between £15M and £20M in wages and, if you add in Holgate, Maupay, Begovic etc, you're probably talking over £40M in savings but bear in mind we have to replace them and our new executive team won't be cheap either.

I'm hoping we could get another striker to complement him who has lots of pace and is good on the ball. Then we could offload the carthorse Beto if anyone would take him.

You can't beat a good joke to kickstart the morning.

We're supposed to be Keane to sign some bloke called Albert Ross too.

It'll all be okay on the (Monday) Night (at Leeds [Dirty, dirty, Leeds]), though… won't it??

As for wages and figures. I don't guesstimate on them. The board and owners will figure what is affordable.

Positive news. I'm not one for "this link, that link" and only take notice when there is something credible. This one had legs a couple of weeks ago.

Now let's see it in black and white and his picture in a blue shirt with a pen in his hand.

We've to wait till July before we could proceed with any real business other than Alcaraz. Also, there has been the matter of Branthwaite's, Keane's, Calvert-Lewin's and Gana's
contracts which determines the business we can do.

I hope Keane and Gana both sign this week and we go all in for Wesley and Fellows or Dibling.

It seems like this Barry deal is all but done. Looks a real prospect and the sort of player we should be aiming for.

I can't see us letting go of Beto, in fact, whilst Barry is finding his feet I expect Beto to be our starting centre-forward. I feel he has earned that but it's his to lose.

There is every possibility that Barry may struggle to adapt early on, it wouldn't be any surprise at all, in fact I almost expect as much.

So we can't afford to allow an experienced striker in Beto to leave and keep Chermiti as backup who, let's be honest, completely fell out of favour towards the end of last season which probably tells you where he is in terms of readiness.
I think we'll likely loan Chermiti out abroad before the end of the window.

Hopefully Thierno Barry is a wonderful player and makes that starting birth his own and gets double figures.

Beto has been scoring, and if he is thinking of moving in the future, it will make him a more attractive player for potential buyers if he has led a Premier League attack for two half-seasons.

Tell me what team outside the elite have signed shedloads of players?

Meanwhile, we've signed an Argentine international, reduced our wage bill massively, extended the contract of one of the best young centre-backs in the world, apparently are close to agreeing the signing of a highly sought after new striker,, with more to come through the door, and we could only really start signing two days ago!??? Things are looking up, no?

And you are bizarrely not only criticising but also blaming someone who's been dead for 2 years!

The lack of positivity on these boards is astonishing at times.

Beto will still be our starting centre-forward this season, with Barry either coming on late in games or getting some minutes in the wide areas. This is definitely the kind of signing a Brighton or Brentford would make, and everyone on here would lambast our club for not doing something similar.

Now we need that right flank sorting!

But also none of them have had a hole ripped out of their squads like we have.

I expect us to add another forward on loan but that may not come until towards the closure of the window. Broja's replacement.

Couple of wingers and full-backs who can whip in crosses too next please and we'll start to have a proper toolbox our magical manager can use. A “Fellaini type” centre-midfield unit wouldn't be bad icing on the cake too.

Isn't Chermiti going on loan to Stoke?

Many have banged on about it before but we need to be picking up these players earlier.

If we get him, fine… but according to some we only have between £70-100M to spend this summer.

I don't count Chermiti as being close to our squad this season, let alone a 3rd choice striker. Despite so much time on the sidelines with injury, he needs to go somewhere like the Dutch League, or a Championship team, to try and score a lot of goals. If he doesn't, I'd definitely move him on next season, as our new Everton can't wait for him.

It would definitely be Beto and Barry for me next season and a loan for someone in the mould of an Ings or Vardy (clearly not Ings or Vardy, just examples), to offer a bit of something different.

I think we need all or most the new players to be on the US tour to get the team bonded. I hope we'll have 5 or 6 in the next week.

So much bad blood and despair between the club and its fans has made us battle hardened, but slowly we are all reawakening to this new Everton, but rightfully sceptical, as we aren't there yet.

Unfortunately, when Kenwright said, I have found you the billionaire owner you wanted, we all thought, OMG, we have a new era coming!! I won't go into any other detail about that as it's now old news and we are moving forward.

I feel the honour and pride of being an Evertonian coming back, and believe again that a new era for us beckons! COYB

I don't see the need to move Beto on. We'd just have to bring in another striker. He scored 8 last season, in a low scoring team. We need options up front. Beto and Barry (if/when he signs), give us that.

We can focus on other areas.

Yes it may take a few games to see the best of him, although if he is here for pre-season that will help, but if we are spending about £30M on him I expect to see him in the team from the start of the season

I have no idea how good Barry is as I never seen him but if he comes I still expect Beto to start the season as our striker.

I don't get the reticence around gradually easing him in. He's a professional on good money. Go out there and score goals.

Unfortunately Beto will probably stay, but for those who think he should stay I have a feeling you'll be joining the rest of us gnashing your teeth over him half way through the season.

The old adage - if you're good enough you're old enough.

I'll leave it there - I never played at any level - there are people here who did. I did briefly work for a football club.

We couldn't sign him earlier due to PSR and the guy was playing for the U21s. People seem to think other clubs complete signings in a matter of days, it never happens like that... and if we did then people would complain we didn't do enough due diligence!!

Although I must add Fabrizio was wrong about Tete so not a done deal yet.

I can't see us letting Beto go now, we saw him develop second half of last season and we need competition up top. Hopefully we'll see more of Chermiti this season and whether he has a chance of making it, we did spend quite a lot on him as a young unproven striker.

BBC - Beto, Barry, Chermiti…

He was quite anonymous and I only noticed him because of the Everton rumour. My immediate impression was that he will struggle to make an impact in the Premier League from day one and that he comes with a hefty price tag. But maybe it just shows how difficult it is to buy strikers for the Premier League.

I have a feeling Calvert-Lewin will in a Spurs shirt come August. I hate Spurs more than the redshite.

But if Mike is right and there was interest in May, we could have agreed the transfer fee, agreed terms with the player, and signed an agreement with both club and player to execute the contract as of 1 July.

It could have been done and dusted with little chance of being gazumped by someone else.

If I was really being "glass half-empty", I'd wonder why nobody else was interested in him? All they would have to do is meet the release clause fee and they would be in pole position.

"Eric you are usually a very sensible poster on here"

Thanks Steve but you're probably the only one who thinks that!

You can't have been around in the Fellaini transfer and Covid days.

Hopefully he goes on to do great things for us but in the mean time we have Beto and I'm baffled that people want him to move on - I think he's been great for us so far and will likely only get better.

He needs a loan.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong and he hits the ground running but I'm not so sure Moyes will thrust him into the Premier League straight away.

Many players have taken time to settle before showing their best form and I think Barry will be used as a sub, in the main. Let's just get it done first, anyway.

As such, I think other clubs will test the water with substantial bids, and if we get over £20M bids, I think Beto will say he wants to go. If he does, he will of course be replaced.

£30M is peanuts for a striker these days so our expectations should not be too high.

Delap was an absolute steal and players of his ability would normally go for over £70M.

We got £75M for Lukaku all those years ago so, if this guy is even close to becoming a "Lukaku", we will have got a diamond.

It just wouldn't look good. RIP.

The first is the popular belief on this thread that Beto had only scored 4 Premier League goals in 1½ seasons under Dyche as opposed to the 8 goals in half a season under Moyes. Like the majority of our attackers he suffered under the constraints of the Dyche regime and wasn't used to best effect.

Posters may therefore feel with better service and a less conservative manager that he will be more than capable of hitting at least 15 this season. Moreover it may make sense to have an experienced Premier League striker as no doubt Barry will probably need at least half the season to acclimatise.

However the other side of the argument and one I believe is that Beto's purple spell coincided with a new manager bounce in which practically every player were re-invigorated after spending 2 full seasons of the most tedious constricted football most of them will ever have had to endure.

Once the initial 'bounce' wore off Beto wasn't grossly better than the player we seen before. I certainly wouldn't be confident in him hitting double figures this season. In the perilous world of PSR I think now is exactly the right time to cash in when his stock has risen and we can achieve a break even of our investment. That money could then be used to buy a talent like Ferguson who has lost his way, making him realistically affordable and who would excel under Moyes and his demands of a striker.

One of the biggest mistakes of the previous regimes was to see a player hit a bit of form, reward them with long and extortionate contracts and then see them sit on the shelf, unable to offload. I hope this regime will be a bit more savvy.

Which clubs are you thinking of that will have Beto insisting he doesn't want to stay if they offer us £20M?

But all the promoted teams and up to midtable would be interested in a player who scores in the Premier League the way Beto did last season.

We all know he's not the best we've ever seen but last season he scored every 188 mins he played in the Premier League, which is not to be sniffed at

I get that his career has been stuttering and goals patchy, but Kevin is correct and most teams from the top 8/9 downwards would be interested in a striker who could score 10-15 goals if given a good run.

Bit harsh on Beto. He may not be Lukaku but he is a proven moderate goal-scorer and we'd be silly to part with him unless we had a decent alternative lined up.

His form tailed off when the service was absent due to players either getting injured (Ndiaye) or being in and out the team (Alcaraz) He has a decent understanding with the latter in particular and when Charly started against Ipswich and put in a great cross he started scoring again.

If he could just comprehend the offside rule he'd have scored a good few more last season. His record of goals to starts is actually excellent.

Evan Ferguson has only ever had one purple patch in his career to date and has otherwise been dreadful. Still, Brighton want £28M for him. No thanks.

He will probably be played out of position on the wing for 6 months.

Probably play him at right-back.

There is a good reason Brighton don't want Evan Ferguson.

He can't score goals at this level and/or his confidence is totally shot.

As we saw with Dele Alli, the Premier League is very unforgiving; so, if you are out for any length of time, it's too hard to get it back.

Beto has never been a prolific striker. He will be 28 in January and his best season has been 11 goals in any decent standard of football. From a financial perspective we will never be able to recoup this type of fee again.

Ferguson you are right only had a Premier League purple patch but there are reasons which contributed to that namely injury. He is a special talent who along with Cesc Fabregas were the only non English players to score 10 Premier League goals by the age of 18.

While Beto is arguably at the highest value in his career, Ferguson is most likely at his lowest. This is a player who Alan Shearer waxed lyrical about in terms of his all round game.

Ferguson has also suffered since the signing of Pedro when he regained fitness who likes to take the space and is better suited to Wellbeck who likes to spin in behind. Ferguson would be a lot more suited to a manager like Moyes who likes to get balls into the box and focuses on set pieces.

Were Ferguson to stink the place out we would recoup the majority of our outlay. The upside with him his huge and he is still only 20. No doubt he will have a point to prove and Moyes has a bit of experience with this type of player like he did with Arteta.

I didn't ask for clubs that would be interested in Beto for £20M, I asked for clubs he would be demanding to be allowed to leave us for, if they offered us £20M to sign him.

He may turn his nose up at Burnley, but there will be clubs who will be able to attract him. He was being linked with Man Utd the other week. He will speak with Moyes and realise that he's not really what he's looking for.

If Barry does sign then I am sure Beto will fight hard to stay in the team.

We shouldn't sell him. Prior to the arrival of Moyes he was playing in the most negative team in the country that were destined to be relegated.

I am sure you can all remember how bad it was. I just couldn't see where the next win was coming from.

For all my doubts Moyes came in and did a marvellous job resulting in Beto scoring some vital goals.

I like him. He has a great attitude and I think Moyes feels the same way.

He's missed 24 games to injury over the last 2 seasons.

And he's played only 1721 minutes and then 541 minutes over the last 2 seasons. Thats 19 and 6 games equivalent = 25 games in 2 season, when the best would have played 100.

I beg to differ if you'd get your money if he broke down again, and he's likely to be demanding fair wages over a 4 or 5 year contract.

The here and now is Beto is fit and scoring. Ferguson could be on the treatment table.

Id take him on loan only, and any talk of a permanent deal can only be if he's scoring and playing 30+ games a season.

We've seen this one too many times already with Duncan & Dcl, and why id keep beto. You'd still get good money on beto when he's 30, as hes not had serious injury to date or ob silly wages.

Two things I'd disagree with on.

I think with a full season playing regularly, he could hit double figures.

And I wouldn't be selling him just yet, as we'd need to find someone else.

Year after year, we have so few strikers, and most of them are the non-scoring type at that. Fully agree with Danny.

Erm, Fabregas only scored 5 goals in the Premier League by the end of the 2005-06 season. He's currently 38 and turned 19 in May 2006.

Evan Ferguson was gash at West Ham. I don't think Pedro 'taking the space' or Welbeck 'spinning in behind' had anything to do with it.

If he was that good there is no way that Brighton would consider selling him. Especially the same summer they've allowed Pedro to leave. Maybe they know more than we do and see this as their last chance to get a decent return on a busted flush?

Is this the same Brighton who wouldn't entertain bids of £60M for him and wanted £100M not long before? Because Hurzeler doesn't rate him doesn't mean he's finished.

At West Ham he was never properly match fit. I watched him play 2 games for Ireland and in both games he was 'gash'. But in a split second in one of them he picks up a ball deep, plays a 1-2 with Parrott and strikes an absolute screamer. The ability is still there even when he was out of shape and low in confidence.

Ian is right that a loan to buy would be the best option but I only raised the suggestion because I have a feeling that he will come back firing to get himself fit and is one of only a few top class strikers we could afford with Premier League knowhow, who is available and would come to us and is a serious upgrade in quality to Beto. He would come to a club and manager where I think he would thrive

On Ferguson, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He fits the mould of Moyes, a player with undoubted qualities who's lost his way a little, a bit like Arteta and Pienaar.

I don't believe that there isn't loads of players with 10 Premier League goal 'involvements' by the age of 18. Rooney and Jeffers were 'involved' in loads of goals by 18.

If they still thought Ferguson was a 100 million pound player now and their manager didn't then they'd be getting rid of Hurzeler.

I am glad he's too good for the defense of a side ranked below Oman and Gabon in the FIFA World Rankings. Always the main criteria when assessing the suitability of potential new recruits.

Maybe you're right. Time will tell and that guy at Sporting Lisbon that everyone wants was a Brighton reject.

Man Utd were quoted £100M two years ago, the talent is there. I would say, we can't afford to sell Beto, with Calvert-Lewin gone.

To expect Barry to come in and expect him to make an impact straight away in the Premier League is a big ask coming from the Spanish league.

You have poo pooed yet, despite all his setbacks, he still has more Premier League goals than Beto!

What 2 more Premier League goals from 8 more appearances? Right, that must be why Brighton thought he was worth £100M. Beto must be worth £90-95M himself though.

He then added a further 6 prem goals in his next 12 games.

A series of minor injuries, then a major one have curtailed his development resulting in a loss of confidence, form and stability. Beto is what he is. He is a ten goal striker at best and apart from his enthusiasm is inferior to Ferguson in every other facet of the game.

Here is a great article by the athletic. We will just after to agree to disagree on the player.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5863495/2024/11/20/evan-ferguson-brighton-hurzeler-goals/

I don't recall him being a regular and I don't think he was that prolific over several seasons?

Anyway, it looks like our money is on Barry, so that's where the club is going. If / when it happens, and it sounds close, then we will have Beto and Barry as options.

Now for the right flank.

Beto/Barry, Ndiaye, Alcaraz plus another won't look too bad.

Considering he scored 10 for us last season in just 20 starts and half the available minutes, that is a distinctly odd statement.

If you cannot afford the fee, there are a few options:

- a relatively low cost development player like Thierno Barry (a fee of less than €40m is less than we paid for the likes of Yakubu, Johnson and Beattie back in the day)

- a player of great potential who is struggling to fulfil it for various reasons (mainly injury), like Evan Ferguson and even Armando Broja

- develop someone over many years (which could be Chermiti or Graham, who knows)

If Thierno Barry was ready now to kick on and hit 15
(+) Premier League goals on arrival then he would be worth about £70m(+) (as Lukaku would have been in today's money) and wouldn't be coming to Everton. The fact is he is not that that player - at least yet. He could be, but it may take time (but equally he could plateau out as a Beto / DCL standard player).

If Evan Ferguson wasn't out of form and overcoming injuries then he would also cost more than £70m. He is a very talented striker and I really wouldn't take account of his form at atrocious West Ham last season. Personally I think he's more talented than Delap.

I would be absolutely delighted to sign Ferguson on loan - but it looks like we're going for Barry. It wouldn't be a surprise if fans (especially on the live forum) write him off on arrival as Beto Mark II / Championship at best / cannot trap a bag of cement / absolute garbage etc. But it may take a season or two (or more as per Wissa at Brentford and Cunha after finally hitting form at Wolves after a strange nomadic career) before he starts delivering.

Lets hope we get this one over the line.

‘if Everton got Tarkowski and Branthwaite for a combined one million. And Obrien and Ndyaie for 16 million each, where have our scouts been? They even got that Alcaraz feller for 12 million….’

Yes we’ve failed with strikers and signed some utter dross but you have to roll the dice when you’re not part of the established elite who can just buy ready made CL quality players. And rolling the dice is by definition a gamble.

I even read on a West Ham forum their fans slacking their recruitment team for ‘dithering’ while Everton sign one of their primary targets.

It seems we all share the same frustrations!!

But from a practical point of view I think it would be dangerous to sell our most settled and effective striker for Barry (who is untried in the PL) and the likes of Ferguson whose physical condition would seem a risk after the last two seasons.

Ryan@87 I've been banging the Guessand drum all summer. More verstaile player than Barry and could do a great job for us on the right wing. Richarlison type who can legitamately play all across the front line. I'd love to get him as well as Barry.

I like Barry but Villareal got him for only £12m last summer. At some point we need to start finding these players earlier rather than paying premiums.

Yeah, it all makes sense! 🤔🤔🤔

The primary reason we have failed to land Champions League quality strikers over the course of the last 30 years is that we have not had a Champions League budget. Going back about 20 years, we have spent what would now be £65m to £80m ish only twice - Lukaku and Beattie.

The second reason we have failed is that instead of buying high quality talent to develop, we have often bought mid-price average players who have already peaked. We need to exploit low cost markets and youth development, but all of that takes time. More Chermitis and Grahams on the books - and every so often one of them will turn into a diamond.

These youth players do not need to be hunted down by a scout "in the know" as they are all hiding in plain sight in u16 to u21 international football.

Link

City: Haaland, Marmoush (not really a central striker)

Liverpool: Darwin

Arsenal: Gabriel Jesus, Havertz (more of flexible player)

Chelsea: Jackson and now Delap.

Newcastle: Isak, Wilson (when not injured)

We don't need 3 frontline strikers. We may not even need 2. We need more flexible forwards who can create and score from out wide or behind a central striker. Players in the mold of Salah, Palmer, Mbuemo, Saka, Cunha, Bowen etc.

Great news about Gana.

I would warn against ever using Chelsea as a yardstick for making a point about squads!

You're right though, there is a distinction to be made.

And for the record I’m not a fan of Beto. But we won’t be letting him go anywhere.

All this signals to me is that we have moved the deck chairs on the Titanic in bringing in a new recruitment team only to be spending £30m on someone we could have got for £10m last season.

Where is the innovation or out of box thinking with our new recruitment team.

It's just not very encouraging.

He won 66.7% of his 153 challenges, while Calvert-Lewin has never won above 53.7% [in the 2020-21 season] in the Premier League.

Another way of looking at those stats, is that is 21 goals in 58 appearances over 4, maybe 5 seasons? Hard to measure, which is why I'm not a big fan of stats.

It doesn't matter now, he's off to Turkey and was never linked with Everton.

Dave, the chaos and panic Beto creates at times doesn't just disrupt opposition defences, it confuses the player himself!!! You just don't know what's going to happen.

Another way of looking at those statistics is that is

I realise that Beto has plenty of faults and can look comical at times and I've said so but I've also said that while he continues to score goals he's doing a good job.

He’ll never be a superstar, and there are certainly better strikers out there, but I remain convinced he will never let us down.

If Barry had come to Everton last summer it would have been much, much harder for him to have made the same sort of impact. And in any case, we had no money last summer. We couldn't have made the signing.

Would we be better off buying someone cheaper who has more talent than Barry but hasn't yet shown it?

Quite possibly, yes, but there aren't lots of candidates.

Personally, I would have prioritised the RW spot - but I guess we all have to reserve judgement until after the window closes and we can see what our squad looks like compared to everyone else.

What I find surprising from that post is that from someone like myself who had endless debates with yourself and others that the squad was much better than it was showing under Dyche you are now using that form under David Moyes to suggest that Beto's form should be at least 'doubled' for next year.

The problem with taking that approach is twofold;

Firstly every player in the squad and particularly Beto were transformed with both TFG coming in and moreso the introduction of Moyes AND the relief of not having Dyche. The bounce was so great that for around 2 months we were operating in the top 5 since he came in. By the end of the season that figure had dropped to top 9.

I would imagine we probably operated around the 10 th to 12th in the table after the honeymoon period where many of us feel the squad should have been. Beto's output dipped as our form dipped.

Secondly and more specifically to Beto the vast proportion of his goals came via the same way. A beautiful slide rule pass, excellent movement behind either a static defender or one who tried to push and a cool slide pass finish.

As a defensive unit coaches know what Beto's threat is and how to deal with it. He ain't gonna score a left goal, he ain't gonna twist and turn like Dominic did against Spurs, he ain't gonna dnk the keeper or show him one way and put it in the other. He will score the odd header and the odd poachers goal but he doesn't really come alive in the box.

I'm sure Beto will score more than he would have under Dyche like all our attackers will and I hope I'm wrong but I stand by the double figure cut off.

But no!

It's the Everton way to dismiss a player before he's even signed.

Then ‘fans' wonder why players want to leave asap.

I certainly haven't heard or seen that sentiment from many.

Most of us haven't followed or watched him play apart from a few games in the U21s Euros, which is hardly enough to forge an opinion.

I'm looking forward to him signing if we get it over the line and can then judge him in an Everton shirt.

Not taring every Everton fan at all, Danny. Just people who write players off before they've even played a second.

Does Moyes share his "wet dreams" with you?

He has the chance to develop the 22 year old Barry, who possesses height, skill and pace into the rounded striker that he wants.
Time will tell. It will be interesting to see them both in our squad.

"Beto's output dipped as our form dipped."

Our form dipped because Beto stopped scoring. Not because Premier League coaches had got wise to his limited skill set but because he just started missing for a while where formally he had been scoring.

He then began scoring again towards the last few games. He'll do that this season too and any further seasons he has, wherever he has them, in the remainder of his career.

He isn't some world class, super human striker that will score 41 goals in 42 games. But he has demonstrated that he scores about a goal per 2 starts everywhere he's played providing those starts consist of sufficient minutes.

He's the least of our worries and it's silly to sell our only remaining senior striker and have to integrate 2 new ones at the same time with all the pitfalls that involves.

I was giving reasons why he won't score 15 to 25 goals this season as many on this thread have forecasted. Coaches may have not understood his threat since he was only a bumbling awkward nuisance for 1.5 seasons. After his purple spell they will know his threat now.

You have come to the conclusion that our form dipped because Beto's output dipped. I strongly disagree and feel both are interlinked. Both form and performances of the entire team naturally dipped from the first two months.

"He has demonstrated he's scored about 1 in 2 everywhere he's played provided those starts consist of sufficient minutes".

Has he really Grant? Under Dyche he started 11PL games and scored 1 goal. Plenty of minutes, not a great return, indeed he stunk the place out. Even under Moyes after his purple patch of about 4 games he was 2 in 10 starts. Again plenty of minutes not a great return.

Finally Grant you can't help yourself to take another little snide dig at Ferguson in your last paragraph, a player you seem to know very little about. You may find it silly to replace a 25 million signings whose purple patch for Everton lasted about 4 games in 2 years with a guy whose purple patch lasted for about 1.5 years as a wet behind the ears youth product who has legitimate reasons for his downturn.

I could see having a triumvirate of Barry, Ferguson and Chermiti as being transformational and with Ndiaye as back up (McNeill deputising) there would be nothing silly about it especially with Ferguson having a full preseason behind him which he missed last season and a manager who he would most likely excel under.

I thought Beto played quite well, despite his limitations. He was unlucky on a number of occasions. Well taken goal against Fulham, denied by a great point blank save against Southampton, created space for Alcaraz against Newcastle. Sometimes a strikers job is more that getting the goal himself.

I can agree with a lot of what both Grant and Conor are saying, I can disagree with some of it.

But Conor, Ndiaye isn't playing backup to anyone. Firstly, he's not a striker. Secondly, he's to valuable to the team. He'll play in the 3 behind the striker(s). Likewise McNeil. He's not playing up front.

I ask because it genuinely intrigues me. Roberto Martinez, was the first person who really highlighted how a lot of young players don't develop properly in England, because they don't get enough game time in those crucial years and I'm wondering if this is something that has affected Evan Ferguson?

Players have also got to feel loved, and when you can't make the breakthrough and are being forced out on loan, this can also have a negative effect on a lot of young footballers.

Robert T, talks a lot of sense, but when he says things like we need to spend £300 million on recruitment, just to catch up on clubs like Villa, (even if they might just be genuine dark horses, imo next season) it sometimes leaves me scratching my head.

I'm not saying Robert is wrong, I just think that sometimes it's about being brave and creative, rather than just spending money, which is definitely what it looks like you're trying to be with your choice of those three centre-forwards, Conor?

Bud, I wasn't suggesting Ndiaye as our first choice or 4th choice striker. Ndiaye would be our first choice left attacker but McNeill is an able deputy there if needs be (not CF).

You say he can't play as a number 9 yet he scored 10 goals and 11 assists in 49 appearances there in the 3 seasons before he came to Everton. Ndiaye s best and natural position is as a second striker where his numbers are superb but he can play up top as well as he does on the wing.

Put it this way, Danny: before Frank moved Wissa up top due to enforced circumstances (the player he bought to replace Toney was out for the season), you would have said the same thing. Indeed, Wissa would have had a lot more to prove.

Under the new manager, the team (across half a season) managed to accrue the whole-season equivalent of 62 points. That's a pretty amazing return with the squad inherited in my view and a long time for a "bounce".

The drop off in results (rather than performances in my view) related to the quality of opposition. Remember, we won the last 3 matches as well – was that a double bounce?

I get confused with all of these new phrases. I managed to fathom out the number 10 (aka supporting forward).

Towards the end of the season, McNeil was a so-called reverse winger. So a left footed played on the right.

I've just about fathomed out low block. To me, nothing new. If you are first in line, go to the ball and put your body in front of it. Nothing new there.

And don't start me on the so-called false 9. I still struggle to know what that means. You don't have a striker?

I can't speak too much for Brentford. Wissa impressed, but the one who did the most was Mbeumo, now subject to speculation of interest from Manchester United.

Yes, and your argument makes absolutely no sense. It was based on claiming that Beto is a one trick pony and Premier League managers would get wise to it and nullify him as a threat. Yet, throughout the entire 19 games in the league under Moyes, Beto has had chances to score goals. He's just been missing them during his barren run..

"Coaches may have not understood his threat since he was only a bumbling awkward nuisance for 1.5 seasons. After his purple spell they will know his threat now."

You cant be much more than that with Sean Dyche as your coach.

"You have come to the conclusion that our form dipped because Beto's output dipped. I strongly disagree and feel both are interlinked. Both form and performances of the entire team naturally dipped from the first two months."

Yes, that's because I watched him miss a sitter to beat Wolves. Fail when one-on-one three times against Brentford, etc. I don't think we've had many bad performances, per say, since Moyes came back. Even if some of the results weren't the best. I don't buy your performances dipped argument.

"Has he really Grant? Under Dyche he started 11PL games and scored 1 goal. Plenty of minutes, not a great return, indeed he stunk the place out. Even under Moyes after his purple patch of about 4 games he was 2 in 10 starts. Again plenty of minutes not a great return."

In the last 6 years Beto's minutes on a football pitch come to 102 to 103 matches worth. He has scored 45 goals which works out at 2.28 games per goal or about a goal every 2 games based upon minutes as I said. But yeah, if you ignore this and take away that and just focus on the other.

"Finally Grant you can't help yourself to take another little snide dig at Ferguson in your last paragraph, a player you seem to know very little about. You may find it silly to replace a 25 million signings whose purple patch for Everton lasted about 4 games in 2 years with a guy whose purple patch lasted for about 1.5 years as a wet behind the ears youth product who has legitimate reasons for his downturn."

I never mentioned Ferguson. Beto has consistently scored at the same rate for 6 years, in 3 different countries with different teams. He has averaged only 17 full 90 minutes worth of minutes a season during that time. Ironically his near 1600 minutes worth of football this season comes to. nearly 17 full games. Reasonable to assume that if a guy who gets about 17 games worth of minutes had twice that amount he would certainly score more goals even if not double.

"I could see having a triumvirate of Barry, Ferguson and Chermiti as being transformational "

You can see a bloke who's done nothing at the club in 2 years. A bloke who is unproven and one that is crocked as being 'transformative' ? Yeah, maybe you're right.

Why have successive managers not looked at what he did in the 3rd tier of Portuguese football where he scored 21 league goals in 34 games. Let's ignore the fact he has scored 45 goals in 166 games in top flight football including the Portuguese league which is Championship standard. "He has scored consistently for the last 8 years", Grant yes at a level of just better than 1 goal every 4 games in top flight football and never more than 13 which was in the Portuguese league. Oh I blame Sean Dyche for that or even better he just missed chances he normally scores.

Why are we signing Barry when Beto is going to bang 20 for us next season if we just play him for the full 90? I wonder who Moyes will start?

You don't think we performed better in the first two months. The only difference was Beto but now we can presume Beto will score 20 because Dyche ain't here and he scores 1 in 2 everywhere he's been.. Thanks Grant really looking forward to this season now. Considering we were top 9 since Moyes came in, top 5 when Beto was on fire. Beto to score 20 and the squad strengthening taking place we are shoe-ins for the Champions League placings now. You've made my day.

That is a good thing. It gives Barry a chance to acclimatise and settle in without undue pressure to deliver from day 1. It is a really tough league and a very different style of play to what he'll have been used to at Villareal.

Hopefully by the latter end of the season we will see a player emerging who can become genuinely better than a Beto / DCL standard player.

Towards the end of the season he done his ankle ligaments and missed the following preseason coming back in September. Hurzeler didn't rate him from the outset but in fairness he looked like a rugby player as opposed to a footballer when he came back, unrecognisable from the previous two seasons. He just never got started last season so I would just write it off. Legitimate maybe the wrong word, explainable would be better.

My view is hypothetically had he not been injured last summer and we were linked there would be tremendous excitement and even incredulity that we got him. As you say he needs a home, a manager to believe in him and to get his head down and work his balls off in preseason. His finishing is unreal and he has that ability that few strikers have to hit the ball so early that keepers aren't set.

If you remember how Dominic improved from Silva to Big Dunc, I could see similar with Moyes as Ferguson has only played in those possession based set ups so far in his fledgling career.

I’ve only seen him doing really well in an under twenty one game against Everton, a few years ago, when he looked sensational, but because I don’t watch much football now, I haven’t seen enough of him to have formed a proper opinion.

Missing pre-season for younger players can’t be underestimated (it took Jarrod Brainthwaite a long time to get going when he returned) but if Everton sign Barry, I don’t think they will also sign Ferguson, even though you have given reasons why it might be a very good idea. We will see.

You think the Portuguese league is 'Championship standard' and yet in your previous post you claim that Chermiti, who has only ever played in it and didn't make much of an impression, will be 'transformative' for us next season?

This along with someone who, by your own admission, is a crocked 'rugby player' whose confidence is shot due to serious injury and going nearly a year between goals?

I don't know who would start out of Barry and Beto. But if it's out of Barry and the two you mention, it had better be Barry or we're fucked.

Beto has only started 24 Premier League games in 2 seasons and has scored 11 goals. 1 short of a goal every 2 starts. What's to not understand about the claim that, if he played more, he'd score more and get to that magical figure you think is beyond him?

Obviously those who have watched and followed him rate him. I don't think he's in the mix though.

As for Beto v Barry (if or when he signs), then that's one for the manager when he picks his team. At least he will have options.

What we desperately need is some more versatile forwards who can create and score to play around Beto and Barry. We currently only have Ndiaye, Mcneill and Alcaraz (and possibly Chermiti, unclear so far whether he has that flexibility) to fill in at LW, RW and 10/second striker.

We need at least one if not two Richarlison types, who can play out wide or up front if in a pinch. Players like Salah, Mbuemo, Saka, Son, Palmer, Cunha, Eze etc who provide goals and assists without being central strikers.

No point spending £25m on a third choice striker like Ferguson when we are terribly short in other areas. If he was to come on loan with an option to buy however then there may be some sense in that.

This smells like another Tete nogotiation.

I am not really too bothered about him as I'm not sure about him but would welcome him if he signs. But this 'any minute now' saga is going on too long.

I realise we needed to do the business in the new financial year and approvals need to be gained from the various authorities and that he is taking his holiday and presumably waiting around until he gets word that he is needed somewhere else for his medical. But what are our people doing to expidite matters when they know someone else could come in for him and pay the full release clause leaving us with egg on our face once again.

I remember now. We are Everton, so it's okay.

Just wait for the next headline and continued debate if he does sign!

Sean #153 "but the ghost of Billy’s past is still at work."

Exactly what I was thinking.

But it's more likely Davey Dithering. ;-)

We have had that offer accepted by Villarreal but I suspect it is they who are delaying things, waiting for someone to come in with the release clause amount which they will accept straight away and we will be out in the cold once more.

Maybe wrong but that is what it smells like to me.

The OS has been very quiet since Thursday morning as a sign of respect to Diogo Jota and his brother.

Getting one over on their competitors at every opportunity is more like it. It hasn't, for example, stopped the Gunners announcing the signing of a player from Spain today nor someone signing Kyle Walker from City yesterday.

In fact, in four days there has been one story on first team matters, the signing of Michael Keane on Friday, which happened to fall in-between the death of Jota on Thursday, and the funerals yesterday. Like I say, I'm just guessing and hoping this is the only reason.

12 players gone – it's a big hole to fill and with some of our players' injury records, god forbid we have key injuries.

Others will be well advised to to do the same but as I said "believe what you want". The same goes for our alledged new number 9. I wil believe it when I see it with both of them.

Which neatly brings me on to our new recruitment team (or should I say non recruitment team), which is quite possibly being too hard on them. Please forgive me for this but I, so far at least, fail to be impressed with their results compared with Thelwell.