Tiring Blues well beaten after some embarrassing lapses

Patterson OBrien Myklenko - no other centre half in squad

Keane, Coleman - injured ??

Hopefully that means Harrison is definitely not coming back...

Perhaps we have retired the No 9 shirt as it was such a poison chalice for the last incumbent... or does this confirm (as rumoured) he is coming back because we are so short of players!!!

Surely it's the No 9 skirt we've retired?

Seems Beto has nabbed the No 9 shirt, so panic over!

Cant say I am surprised.

Shown as an Everton sub???

Maybe it's like kids “soccer” and they even the teams if some kids don't show up?

But good to see how frustrated David Moyes was getting with how they were playing. At least he seems to be taking the job seriously.

Alfred Molina... that's gonna stick like an earworm, thanks, Kieran.

The turf is dry grass – slow and bouncy. We could win this one.

That's 'hilarious'!! But I didn't realise we had some 10 year olds contributing to ToffeeWeb!

i'm thirteen

Why do Moyes's teams (like Dyche's) always come out of pre-season half-baked and find form only after Christmas?

Simple answer is the pre-season preparation, with fear of modern methods at its foundation.

Dyche loves to roll out his ‘Gaffers Day' stories on a regular basis. Whilst at the same time failing to point out that his management record in August is absolutely atrocious throughout the entirety of his career.

I can recall many Moyes seasons at Everton where we started well and I know for a fact that a couple of weeks prior to playing Villarreal in a potentially history altering Champions League qualifier – that the whole squad was running for an entire day around Woolton Woods in what can only be described as a 4-hour cross country 1970s PE lesson.

That was 20 years ago and hopefully Moyes has moved on since then.

Get real, people. Everton are embarrassing.

Second half extremely discouraging.

Everton that.

He does nothing game-altering with the ball. It looks good, fancy, lively, tricky... but produces nothing.

And Alcaraz was also very disappointing.

We all know we lack depth and quality. New signings will take time to settle.

We face a tough start to the season. Yet again.

Patterson and O'Brien with playground errors, the former is just not Premier League standard in my opinion.

We need to sign real quality who will make a difference, we need pace and wingers who can cross a ball; otherwise, it's going to be another tough watch.

Three pre-season games, no wins (not counting the Port Vale behind-closed-doors game).

What else did anyone realistically expect, though, when you look at the squad Everton have taken all the way to America?

I watched a Championship team play a team from League Two today, and I can honestly say that the gulf in class between the two teams tonight was a lot wider than it was earlier today.

Have no fear — it's only pre-season, but whatever excitement we had hoped to generate by moving into a new stadium already has a real chance of disappearing before it's even begun.

Hopefully things improve over the next few weeks. I'm sure they will… but, if they don't, how many of us have got the stomach for another season of struggling?

Better team in the first half and 2 individual mistakes cost us in the second half. It was a make-shift team.

I can't be doing with people panicking — have some perspective.

Ndiaye entertains with his dribbling but can't cross or pass the ball. But that's what you get for £17M. A player with limitations.

But that's why they play for Everton and cost £30M between them.

This doesn't say much for the rest of the team!

I've hardly seen Everton look threatening in 10 years. I agree he can't cross, but he can score. He's definitely a threat.

I thought Tim Iroegbunam was hardly in the game and Ndiaye can play a lot better than he did tonight.

I doubt if we can expect the team to shine at the moment with the squad we have, so the next two games look likely to produce two more defeats. Let's hope the performances are better than the second half one tonight.

Sounds like you're happy with getting beat all the time. I'm fucking not.

Will we even score a goal!?

At first I thought it a surprise when I saw 3 at the back, but then it made sense, with Tarkowski presumably not ready and Keane out. Little choices for the manager.

Decent first half, with high energy pressing to get possession back and we were the better team. The usual direct forward running from Alcaraz, who had a good effort saved and put Beto in, but the keeper was again alert.

Similarly, Ndiaye had a few good moments with his trickery and jinking.

Then we seemed to leave that all in the changing room at half-time and out came an Everton team with the energy and pressing gone as Bournemouth grew into and took over the game, making space as we increasingly backed off them.

Not a lot to pick out of the first goal. The player makes a yard and then hits a sweet strike.

Patterson gets to the ball, but his touch lays it on for the forward, who didn't need a second invite for the second.

And then a moment O'Brien will want to forget. He seemed unaware of the Bournemouth player in close proximity and then underhits the back-pass.

I don't think we really had too much opportunity to judge the substitutes. Barry will need more minutes, Harrison too.

Ultimately, half a performance, poor result. Next.

We miss Tarkowski big time for his leadership. We need a midfielder who can glue the team together.

McNeil and Patterson? Get rid ASAP.

Inability to score in the first half meant being set against 11 sets of fresh legs in the second was always going to be a problem. Unfortunately, the lack of quality, lack of replacements, failure to make subs early, all added up to mistakes.

Lots of positives: compared to last season's friendlies, we looked much sharper and fitter, but the lack of quality and sheer squad numbers left us wide open. I was glad to hear the final whistle.

Moyes needs a squad of 25, we have 16. His point was made for him today.

The squad is like the Dirty Dozen, but near the end of the film when most have been shot.

Some on here except mediocre and Catholic guilt. Fuck 'em! I want Everton to win everything. Sign some players who will excite us! Not like that yard dog McNeil.

Play one, hopefully two, very good footballers alongside him, and he will also become a very good footballer.

Out of all the positions, I think the most crucial one is centre midfield. I don't think Bournemouth would have coasted to three-nil with him there.

I thought Alcaraz was our best player, particularly in the first half. He worked incredibly hard throughout, unlike a lot of others who seemed to run out of Lucozade energy juice — or Gatorade as is popular in the States.

I'd probably go with Dave Abrahams on Ndiaye. I thought he also did well first half, but we've seen him play better. But he's one of our best players.

I know the formation was forced on the manager, but I thought James Garner looked uneasy in the wing-back role.

Also, on the forced makeshift back 3, I thought Mykolenko coped okay, but Patterson looked uncomfortable.

I don't want to get carried away, and keep some perspective, but I feel he's running out of time at Everton.

**I didn't finish above. Harrison Armstrong didn't get on the ball enough, not his fault, and Onyango wasn't involved enough in the short time he was on the pitch.

Moyes not to blame — he has already said he needs 9 or 10 more players.

McNeil didn't offer enough of a threat to draw any defenders away from him.

This is pre-season so I don't mind players trying to get themselves up to speed and thinking less about getting everyone else involved for now.

I thought Tim Iroegbunam had a decent first half apart from one that he allowed to get away from him in a promising position, but he was anonymous in the second half (as were too many others).

A proper threat on the right was a huge miss as we couldn't stretch them enough.

I thought we were pretty decent first half but they pressed much better after the break and we needed more subs for tiring legs.

Our players will be much better when the midfield has quality wide players and the strikers can feed off some decent service from the flanks.

No need to panic but we do need reinforcements now!

Yes, hit by lack of options and numbers tonight.

Trying to watch this Man Utd v West Ham Utd match, but don't think I'll last too long.

Without those, we were shown up for what we currently are, a mediocre to poor Premier League team.

If I stretched to find positives, there were a few in the first half. Beto actually looked good for a time, not just 'a handful', there was a threat from him, Charly and Ndiaye and I thought Tim looked promising.

Then in the second half, they all disappeared, and the weaknesses became all too apparent. Tough times ahead

When we are on top, we don't score… and opponents seem more capable of taking advantage when they have a spell. It's all a bit Moneyball but it's just fact. There's a change needed that shifts that statistic.

Idrissa playing 90 minutes (I think he did?) is crazy stuff. All last season we had this same issue where we ask a lot of our midfielders but can't change them... there desperately needs to be an answer to that.

Patterson and O'Brien both made terrible errors. But let's be honest, Patterson really didn't need that. There are some legitimate concerns about him, and there are some pretty lazy opinions about him. Well, he just confirmed both – so no need to differentiate now.

I don't really know what the positives are. It's only pre-season, so I'm not worried about the result at all. It just would have been nice to have some kind of positive.

Imo, it is an absolute disgrace to send a squad like that to promote the club in a prestigious tournament.

There are no excuses. We have known for months we had the weakest squad in the Premier League after letting so many senior players go.

We supposedly recruited the cream of the football world as a recruitment committee. Well, you just failed your first big test and confirmed to the American market what a third-rate club we have become.

Take note, Angus — the natives are restless!.

Ndiaye is a quality footballer who generates opportunities for himself and others, and does fine work defensively as well. He was our best player on the day and it wasn't close. My comment to some friends was that I love Ndiaye's first touch more than I loved my first wife.

As Pete says, he simply needs more quality around him.

Incoming transfers are on their way but it's cagey out there —and early signings are difficult unless you pay the top prices.

3. Play your new striker.

4. Get a new centre back ASAP; James Garner is not the answer… neither is Patterson.

Apart from Armstrong, we don't really have any youngsters ready or good enough, but a lot of the team is based on a young core.

James Garner didn't play centre-back; he played right-wingback.

I'm also concerned that Moyes (will always be Moyes) and any striker will struggle as way too isolated. This hasn't changed in 20 years since the days of Bent, Beattie and Johnson.

I'd have thought that this tour would have been the opportunity to see what could be done if Tarkowski and Branthwaite both don't recover for the start of the season proper but maybe it's easier to whinge about how many players you don't have; Coach or Manager?

I can't get upset about friendlies. This is a "stretch your legs, make some money" exercise. Move on.

What is apparent is that our right side is and has been the priority area to strengthen for a while. Odd then that all our signings and strongest links have been for the left or centre (Alcaraz, Barry, Travers, Aznou, Fofana etc). Put a high-class right-back and right-wing into this team and I think we'll do okay once Tarkowski and Branthwaite are in.

Ndiaye is quality, he scored 9 goals from out wide last season whilst constantly tracking back. He's the least of our problems.

Many are focusing on the squad but why on earth did he play Patterson in a back three; madness. He had a young centre-back on the bench, while Ireola trusted his youngsters with the 3rd goal symptomatic of his faith in youth.

What is it with Dyche and Moyes playing to Patterson's weaknesses? This was a perfect opportunity to see him as a wingback but Moyes seemed to be sending a message to the owners with this line-up, and then he gives Barry no chance when the team was out on their feet. He should have been brought on at half-time as Beto wasn't pulling up any trees.

To go to America and play against three Premier League teams in a week, with a squad of such limited numbers, quite simply borders on the ridiculous, imo.

TFG, are not responsible for the overall state of the squad, so the time to judge them will be at the end of the window, but surely everyone can see the stupidity of being involved in this tournament whilst we are incredibly underprepared? I just hope it doesn't lead to many stupid avoidable injuries to an already depleted squad.

You have got to be really clever with how you use your players in pre-season nowadays (it's why you see wholesale changes between half-time and the 60-minute mark) and I'm sure this will be very concerning for our manager, because he simply hasn't got the numbers or the quality to make what he must genuinely consider to be absolute necessary changes.

We have all seen mistakes like O'Brien's, a tiring defender underhitting a backpass and getting exposed by a fresh attacker, but I don't think many of us will be able to recall seeing mistakes like Patterson's that often (if ever!)

Nathan Patterson is a decent footballer but his position requires above anything else that he has got to be able to defend. This is something that Nathan has still to develop, so yesterday's mistake – highlighted in front of everyone – has got to be the turning point for the kid; otherwise, he will find it hard making a successful career, even in the lower leagues.

They say there is no such thing as making a good mistake but, because most of us only really learn from our own mistakes (especially those really stupid mistakes), I just hope yesterday ends up being a turning point for Nathan Patterson, and he starts looking at his position with different eyes.

So the likely outcome will mean the players will loose confidence and pick up injuries.

Sadly, I cannot see any good coming from this tour, unless you need confirmation that the playing squad lacks numbers and quality.

I thought like you that Alcaraz was our best player and he is ahead of a lot of our players football-wise wise who are not alert to his passes; his movement off the ball is what some of our players could try and aspire to.

Regarding Ndiaye, I think he is a very good player who excites most fans; last night wasn't one of his best games but he should always be on the team sheet.

I also thought that it was strange to play Patterson in a three-man back line. There were loads of moves that Patterson would have been running onto down that right-hand side if he was playing full-back but, with a depleted squad, he was pushed into the centre-back position.

That won't help his cause especially when the other two were O'Brien, still making his way in the team, and Mykolenko, who is average in his own position — never mind centre-back.

Like Tony says – a stupid idea to participate in this “tournament” and the important thing for me is to avoid any injuries.

We'll beat Bournemouth when it matters.

I hope we can improve on these two; McNiel is a tidy footballer but his right foot is for standing on and he is painfully slow.

Garner is a squad player for me. I'm hoping we don't see too much of him this season because we've signed a replacement.

I'm not too worried about the result because of the makeshift defence we had out, but it's a bit concerning the amount of injuries Branthwaite picks up because we are definitely a better team when he's playing.

We can't seem to beat Bournemouth at any time — never mind when it matters.

They've actually become our bogey side and I'm sick to fuckin death of them and that cretinous little stadium that masquerades as a Premier League ground.

They must love playing us.

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant Branthwaite! :-)

I would be more concerned about events off the pitch. Did we raise our profile? Did we take merch? Was anyone out there talking about the club who has spent the most seasons in the top league, scored the most topflight goals?

We saw with the Club World Cup that there is an appetite for football but, alas, if you do not promote, you earn nowt.

I think it's an absolute miracle that we are still playing in the big league. I judge this more than anything by the complete lack of professionalism that became very evident throughout the whole club.

This lack of professionalism has never been more evident than it was last night but hopefully things are going to start changing now and Everton will slowly get back on track once the summer transfer window has ended.

Strange thing to post when we beat them in probably the most important match that we've played in the last 5 years!

Moyes mentions injuries — we saw Keane and Tarkowski... but who else? Coleman — that would make 23.

Out of those 23, we've seen five kids — Armstrong, Onyango, Heath, Clarke, Thomas.

No sign of Reece Welch in any of the three games so far... so he must be injured. Dixon has slipped way back down the pecking order and will go out on loan or leave.

I suppose the only other possibles would be Tamen and Graham. I was thinking Moyes was sticking to 'normal' Premier League rules when he named only 9 on the bench... but it really looks like that's all he had available.

Not true.

What is the purpose of bringing young Aled Thomas if he wasn't going to play him? This was an emergency and, from what I gather on here and from reading about him, he is a leader and has progressed quickly through the ranks.

Young Roman Dixon put in a very accomplished performance in a Premier League match and I doubt Thomas would have done any worse than Patterson yesterday.

So it's done its job. It's shown how far away we are from even Bournemouth.

I'd say by that left-wingis the only position we are okay for.

3 central midfielders needed (urgently)
Left-back
Right-back
Right-wing (x2)
Striker
Centre-back

It's going to be a hard job to get real quality in all them positions.

Hopefully this will stick a rocket up their arses, Moyes knows the severity of the situation.

It's going to be a tough season, every team coming to our new ground will up their game, will we be in a position to compete?

Climb down from 9-10. Probably had his wrists slapped by TFG.

But the right-back and right-winger have to be clear first-team quality. The right side of the team is an embarrassment and has been for several years.

I thought Moyes was simply clarifying that his earlier "9 or 10" estimate included the three players already signed.

Doesn't quite ring true to me, but maybe I'm over thinking it.

Also, we need more than 5 or 6 imo!

Moyes said he wants some players. And that's about it.

If, like us, you have a threadbare squad, with some injuries, then it exposes just that. Players have to play too many minutes in hot conditions. Risk of picking up more injuries. Players out of position.

Doesn't help momentum or confidence. I'm sure it seemed a good idea at the time...

Yes, it's only a pre-season friendly but the trend isn't great. We had to come from behind against Accrington, lost to Blackburn, and just managed to scrape a win against Port Vale after conceding first again.

I said this tournament against other Premier League teams will tell us where we are at, and sadly the gulf in quality between ourselves and Bournemouth in the 2nd half was there for all to see.

I have said for a few seasons that we lack enough of a goal threat and last night again showed we are no nearer solving that problem. Barry looked lively when he came on but he will need help. For too long, our main striker is always isolated, so other than go it alone, has very few options.

I said in a post the other day Patterson is a liability defensively and sadly he proved me right again. Surely it's time to send him to a Championship side and get him off the books. But for too long we have praised players for average performances and many of these players have been the reason we have been in a relegation fight for the last few seasons.

McNeil is an impact sub at best, Garner not good enough, Beto again an impact sub from the bench at best. If TFG thought Moyes was joking when he said we need 9 or 10 new signings, let's hope last night's performance showed them why Moyes said that.

We need help in that department. COYB!

Gana will probably do an excellent job if he has two other central middfield players who can pass, create and make things happen. Has Garner really proved he has enough?

Right-back and right-wing is shocking. Patterson just isn't good enough. Not even as back-up.

The lack of creativity is a long-standing issue, Ndiaye is brilliant but he can't do it all himself, week-in & week-out; he doesn't create that much for others either, maybe because they can't keep up or aren't at his level.

A central midfielder with vision, a pass, who can control the play and link the midfield with attack, is what we've needed for years now.

I'd pay to watch that. Could be a good alternative income stream…

But Bobby thinks it is a gentle request from Moyes when he asks the club for 9-10 players this summer?

The level of complacency at times on here is quite funny. But I bet David Moyes isn't seeing the joke right now.

He said after yesterday's match that he could barely field a team.

It would have been nice possibly to see Aled Thomas at left centre-back, as Conor says. That would have given us a more natural shape. But maybe the point of yesterday was to give Mykolenko a run out there, with a view to him filling in while Branthwaite is injured.

If that exposed Patterson, then so be it. Who cares? Patterson is almost certainly leaving anyway – probably on loan because who would buy him?

A lot of issues resolve themselves when we get our new right-back, which we will surely do.

Do you think we won't buy a right-back this summer?

We still have is it 4 loan slots we can bring in, so if we can buy 3 or 4 players, we could use those remaining loan slots to build the squad up.

Not all doom and gloom but crazy to go over to The States, play three matches with a threadbare squad, leaving just one friendly for any new signings to come in and try to hit the ground running.

With such a limited squad over there, more minutes are needed which puts players more at risk of picking up a niggling injury.

Whatever happens between now and our first Premier League match, questions have to be asked why our preparation for the new season has been poor? The tour seems to be a show for the American public.

All summer has been about money: new membership, double the price, season ticket holders and members paying to watch friendlies, new home top, new away top, buy your own seat at Goodison…

Yes, finally getting it right about better revenue and merchandise but, at the same time, we seem to have taken our eye off the most important part of our history, our new chapter in our new stadium, and that is replacing the players we released in June.

Even when these finally come in, they will have missed two friendlies and a three-match tournament, leaving them just the Roma game to try and gel with the team.

I'm very disappointed it has taken this long to replace outgoing players. Any other time patience needed, you can sometimes go with what you have and hope a couple of additions come in, but when you lose so many who are, yes, off the wage bill, it then leaves a gaping hole we are seeing now.

Get your fingers out, Everton, and get it sorted now.

So we can all pull players names out the sky, maybe good players, but we need players who will fit how Moyes wants to play.

We are not getting a finished squad after this window.

I think we are one of the worst teams in the Premier League for retaining possession in the opponents' half.

Bournemouth must love playing us.

Players needed, fast.

New owners, same misery.

I think his attitude stinks, tbh. Dodged a bullet.

Grealish has been very good - and may yet still be good into his thirties (he's 30 in September). However, it wouldn't be a huge surprise to see his career tail off from here since he's not looked after himself brilliantly well and, having won all his trophies at Man City, he might find it hard to stay motivated at a much lower standard.

I would have thought his most likely destination is Villa or (if he can figure out how to get hold of booze) Saudi.

It was unfortunate that Keane had a late injury yesterday. If he was centre-back with O'Brien at right centre-back and Patterson as right wingback I think we would have looked better.

Pickford/ Travers

Mykolenko/Aznou
Tarkowski/O'Brien
Branthwaite/Keane
NEW RB/ Coleman & Patterson

Ndiaye/McNeill
Gana/ Iroegbunam
NEW CM/ Garner
NEW RW/ NEW backup RW

Alcaraz/ Armstrong or backup CAM

Beto/Barry

The last time I can actually remember us having a strong squad of roughly 20 players was during the 1986-87 season.

Unless anyone can tell me otherwise, most seasons we go into a new season short of players or it's patched up.

Their very good manager knew it and obviously told them so in the break.

Okay, he has a ''thin'' squad… but everyone knew the temperature was not good for playing 90 minutes at pace and Everton started off with pace for the first half hour but lack of a good striker was apparent although Beto and Ndiaye did well. As usual, Bournemouth got the upper hand and won the game by a ridiculous margin.

That's four defeats in a row against an average Bournemouth side. Moyes has to get this sorted before that first game at Leeds who are chomping at the bit to get a good start.

Everything dried up once Bournemouth got on top of stopping Ndaiye down the left and in the good old inside left position.

We have nothing on the right, absolutely nothing… and the rumoured chase for Fofana won't change that.

Listening to the CEO's interview, it's clear that there is much more focus on commercial and marketing as well as making inroads to the US support base than we didn't really do on previous visits.

Arsenal and Newcastle are in Singapore, where they play each other as well as AC Milan, before Arsenal fly to Hong Kong to play Tottenham.

I'm guessing we'll see more of this type of thing in future.

We all know the squad is extremely threadbare, even by recent seasons' standards. Last night was unfortunate that all of Tarkowski, Branthwaite and then Keane were not available.

A couple of signings this week won't help this tour, but it will cheer us up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the team in any way, but it is clear there is a serious lack of numbers in the squad. Their 11 substitutions to our 4 showed that. I can't remember who the other subs were, but I don't understand why Moyes didn't throw on more than four?

Anyway, I'm not particularly bothered about the result. It's all about fitness. Also, get a few more signings in and we'll be fine. I'm also hearing good news about Branthwaite and that he should be fit for the Roma game.

We can only show patience, but I see no real evidence (yet) that the installation of Kinnear and Hammond has created greater professionalism into our recruitment process.

We know we are at least 5 good players short and we are asking to be embarrassed.

That game won't define our season, but it does point out our weaknesses, which is not a bad thing.

I love Beto and want him to start games and do well, but I fear I'm thinking with my heart and not my head. Is he really good enough to lead the line for a top half team? Do we need someone better who can come deep and link play?

But also it was 90 degrees, pitch wasn't great, and we only had two defenders (the sweaty sock at right-back doesn't even count, what a tit)…

We should keep Jake at right-back, he was a beast and shut every winger in the league down. He got moved central for the Man City game last season and Doku had a field day on that side. I truly believe Jake would have shut Doku down…

We finished the season in the Top 6 form league, we don't need to change too much. I don't care about 5 years from now, buying young and building for the future etc, I want to have a good season now! I would give Jake the right-back spot deffo.

Three weeks until the start of the season, clock's ticking.

Seamus can be the back up and Patterson can be the water carrier. That was just awful from him last night. The thing is he did well to get between the Bournemouth player and the ball, but an awful touch from him gifted the goal.

Juanlu Sanchez from Sevilla could be a player that could cover right-back and right-wing.

Treating the main role of full-back as simply defending is a very small club thing to do.

O'Brien did a good job last season – but he's not a proper full-back. We need a proper right-back – especially as Mykolenko is no great shakes on the left.

Yes, it's become more common for full-backs to attack, but they still have to get back in and defend.

Not new or revolutionary, but it was often common not to have both your full-backs go at the same time, so there are always 3 at the back and probably a covering midfielder.

Mykolenko, still not the best, did better at going forward once Moyes came in. A few assists and got himself a goal from inside the box.

Football evolves, or maybe it just turns, just like the circle of life itself, but when you haven't got that much going forward, then it's even more imperative that you have got to be able to defend.

I'm not stupid, I know what you were insinuating, but when I cast my mind back to the game at Anfield against the eventual champions, then I think resolute Everton would have gone in at half-time a couple of goals up if our centre-forward would have taken his chances, simply because our team knew how to defend.

Pickford, Garner as right-back, O'Brien and Mykolenko.

I would start with Harrison Armstrong in midfield along with Guaye, Alcaraz, McNeil, and Ndiaye.

Chermiti and Barry as a two-striker attack.

We need to see both Barry and Chermiti start, while we have the likes of Alcaraz, Ndiaye and McNeil on the pitch.

But don't you want Everton to be the better team – leaving the opposition with something to worry about?

If your main full-backs are Mykolenko and O'Brien, then you're going to struggle to be the better attacking team, struggle to retain possession in the opposition half, and struggle to counter quickly. Not just against the traditional Rich 6 but against pretty much everyone. That's a small club mentality.

But what is Plan B when we go down 1-nil down at home?

We need a right-back from the bench that can help change the team set up. That isn't Patterson, it's not Coleman, and probably not Garner.

Garner might be a good back-up for right-back, worth a try, but we certainly need a right-back and a pacy right-winger coming in.

I think O'Brien started at full-back in that Man City game, Tarkowski got injured and went off, Keane came on and took his place. Doku never came on ‘til late in the game. I was hoping that he wouldn't — when he did, he changed the game and turned O'Brien inside out and made the centre from which Man City scored their first goal in a 2-0 win.

Patterson and O'Brien both made poor mistakes and, over the whole game, O'Brien was as poor as Patterson or even worse in my opinion.

If Luis is on his way to Munich, wouldn't Paulinha be on his way out, worth a punt?

Since he's headed to Stockport County, it looks as though Championship scouts don't see him as the answer either.

There seems to have been some myth developing that he had a good game. It might be my memory or another example of that common Evertonian trait where a player seems to become better in people's minds the more he doesn't play!

"(if he can figure out how to get hold of booze) Saudi."

Having worked in the sandpits for 15 years, I can tell you it's not hard to figure out.

One of the few who did. But, I agree he isn’t ready and needs to go out on loan.

Moyes has done well with our possession routine given the players involved. The ball is not advanced so directly that it stretches support and leaves attackers isolated.

There is an extra pass made in the setup that allows time for either a drop pass into the middle as someone drifts in behind the opponent's press, or the target can get positioned to run into the path of the pass, rather than a hold-up move.

The players know not to simply look for the next open blue shirt but to look for the proper attack option by being a bit more patient.

The problems are we can only do that when the match is even and we don't take our chances well. If we were more potent, we could be more decisive. This leaves us with possession in the opponent's half without really threatening the goal.

Neither Ndiaye or Alcaraz have figured out a chemistry that can reset the attack while keeping the pressure on opponents with the ball around their box.

Overall, the team play more on the front foot rather than sit back for the counterattack. This has been good for player morale and obviously their effort shows.

However, once the opponent scores, we still have the main problems of predictable attacks and impotent finishing. Without more team speed or a magician in the middle, this will continue.

It is as if we have worked out what could be a successful one-sided strategy, without any idea how to get back into a match if we go behind. I'm not sure it was simply a case of not enough players.

I saw a drop in mentality after Billing's goal. And for him to be able to get that uncontested shot off at the D was shocking.

Last night was the first game I've missed since the 3-0 League Cup debacle at Bournemouth. For that game, I logged onto the Live Forum and vowed I'd never do it again as some of the comments were so depressing.

Foolishly, last night, I did do it again, mainly just to keep up with the score. What a negative experience! I think I may need counselling.

I really don't get why some Blues really seem to get pleasure from tearing the team apart. No player, not one, who plays Premier League football, is 'shite'. To get there takes ability and effort way beyond the comprehension of the stats geeks who probably never kicked a ball in their lives.

God almighty, we lost a fucking meaningless game against a team who, despite the love-in, will be out of the Premier League in the next two seasons. We will still be here.

Does any Blue want to be Bournemouth, Brentford or Brighton?

It doesn't make him a better player than a League One or League Two player.

Once team owners and their managers find they have a player other teams want, it becomes a bidding war, and they will hold out to get the highest bid.

At one time, Everton's name was all it needed to attract players. But because of previous ownership and board mismanagement that over the seasons put the club in a precarious position, languishing in the lower half of the league with no silverware, the club's reputation has slowly diminished.

Yesterday's game reminded me of a 1600-m track race where, after 800 m, half the field dropped out and a fresh number of runners replaced them.

The first half showed we have the makings of a good team but a poor squad and that was demonstrated in the second half. We definitely need improvements in some areas, and that is well known by both the supporters and management.

We are entering a new era in this club with new ownership, manager and ground. Each one brings its own problems and will need time for all to combine, and it is understandable that time is not what the supporters want.

Do not let your feelings overcome you by the result, watch the first half and imagine that team with improvements made with players still on our books and transferred players in areas that both we and the manager believe is needed.

Just from memory last season, Man City, Liverpool, Brentford, West Ham, Arsenal, Fulham. Mostly draws, but points gained from a losing position.

Dave @134. Forgetting last night, I think what is evident is how Branthwaite and O'Brien have benefited having Tarkowski alongside them. His injury came at a time when it wouldn't impact our season, but I hope he's ready for the start on 18 August.

Take the way the team played in the first half and add a few quality additions in key positions, and we'll actually have a half-decent team.

The modern phenomenon of getting your full-backs to consistently attack might have been why whoever recruited Patterson probably overlooked this side of his game. (It was Benitez's fault, he held the purse-strings.)

It's never too late to learn. Yesterday's error might actually end up becoming a blessing in disguise for him because the stark reality is that the kid has got to realise that, if he his going to have a successful career at any level, then he has got to learn to concentrate a lot more because concentration is such an important aspect of defending.

Robert, I love width; when it's done right, I think I love watching counter-attacking football more than I enjoy watching any other style of football, mate.

It's got to be done right though, because if you want to succeed then, whatever way you play, my belief is that you have simply got to do things right.

He's 24 in October, and will have ruined his career if he has 2 more years of this. He will be nearly 26 at the end of this contract and might still be below 100 games half-way through his playing career.

It's a huge ask to turn this around. I don't enjoy saying any of that. He's young, got the right attributes, and is talented. But he has a massive confidence problem and picks up injuries that rob him of any sort of rhythm to his game.

If Dibbling is fancied, a loan the other way might be preferable if another right-back can be brought in.

Despite what one or two may think on here, Bournemouth weren't that special last night. I'd say for the first hour we were the better team, and probably could have been ahead.

In that first half, in that searing heat, we did a lot more running than Bournemouth and basically ran ourselves into the ground.

The lack of substitutions meant seven of our starting eleven played the full game, whereas Bournemouth changed their entire team in the second half.

For the last 20 to 25 minutes, we were simply running on an empty tank!

It's Luiz Diaz who's off to Bayern, I think, rather Douglas Luiz.

Okay, we cannot do that in defence yet, but the midfield has to have the right balance before the start of the season.

He just can't master the defensive basics. It really is time for him to move on.

O'Brien can play right-back but, like Mykolenko on the other side, in a limited way. Why it's taken us years to address full-back positions is mystifying.

It's fuckin depressing and not good for mental health.

Thanks for correcting me. I should have gone to Specsavers.

Liverpool getting £65M for Diaz at 28 is excellent business for them.

I don't have issue with criticising players for individual performances or consistent poor performances. As long as it is done in the context of football, kept civil and doesn't get insulting using vitriol language.

With Patterson, and injuries aside, I'm just not convinced. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see him succeed. I would. I'm just not sure it will be at Everton.

I've done it for years with Michael Keane, but always tried to keep it to performance and defensive abilities. I would have got rid of Keane years ago, but then in-between the mostly average performances, he's given us the odd memorable moment, which I and others will be grateful for.

There have always been scapegoats, often local players. We could all list them.

Last season, it was Jack Harrison. Now attention has turned to Patterson and for some, James Garner, despite having a good half-season last time out, once he recovered from injury. Unfortunately, once the knives are out, some are waiting to pounce.

On the "Do I want to be Brentford, Brighton or Bournemouth?" No thanks. We're Everton. Some will point to how they have been better run in recent years, which I can't dispute. But sustainable?

Brentford without Thomas Frank and about to lose another key player with Wissa wanting out.

Bournemouth have lost 2 key players and I wouldn't be surprised to see their talented manager depart for something bigger and better in the not-too-distant future.

Yes, totally agree that Tarkowski makes a huge difference when he plays and the whole defence seem stronger. He is a very capable player and a great captain who urges the team on in a quiet and calm sensible way.

I hope he gets fit as quickly as possible because I believe the whole club will benefit.

You are correct: Moshiri paid for Patterson after Kenwright did all the negotiating and the Rangers chairman praised Kenwright for the way he did that negotiating!

I don't think Benitez had anything to do with the signing of either Patterson or Mykolenko.

“Patterson's arrival came at a curious juncture in Everton's modern history, with the deal pushed through by then-manager Rafa Benitez and the club's hierarchy shortly after the departures of director of football Marcel Brands and head of recruitment Gretar Steinsson.

The young full-back had not been Brands's top target. The Dutchman had pushed instead to bring in Netherlands international Denzel Dumfries from PSV and Tino Livramento from Chelsea, only for Benitez to rule out both moves.

Patterson's name had appeared on shortlists as a promising player who could be developed over time, but the recruitment team explored a deal the previous summer for a fee less than half of the amount Everton ended up paying. There had been little expectation that he could take over Coleman's mantle straight away.

Two weeks after his arrival, sanctioned by Benitez, the Spaniard was sacked.“

Proof if need that Benitez was a professional idiot.

We were unusually error-prone and look all over the place. When Tarkowski is captain, we look calmer and more organized. Sadly, I don't think Pickford is a good captain choice. Gana should get it imo.

He had a little spell under Lampard where he was getting a bit of form and I remember him playing really well in the derby at Goodison when Coady's goal got disallowed.

I've been praying for it to work out for him. If he moves on, I wish the lad all the best.

We created 11 chances and had 3 shots on target? Bournemouth had a higher percentage of tackles and aerial duels.

We had attacking and overlapping fullbacks in the '80s, pushing them forward is nothing new. How many times did we see Steven and Stevens do it not to mention Pat and Sheeds? Steve Watson and Andy Hinchcliffe? Even Neil Pointon.

Maybe you could list his errors over the last 3 or 4 seasons? Without Pickford we'd now be playing in the Championship (at best).

I just wish we had a player with his personality further up the pitch.

Brighton are a bit unusual since they appear to be laying much more sustainable foundations and might be able to hang on in there for longer – but have hit a dilemma now.

As other posters have asked on here, are they (a) trying to win things ? Or (b) are they trying to develop players for profit?

In all honesty, I am not sure even they know for sure. Last season, they attempted to kick on by spending about £250M on an already good side. However, this didn't take them any further forward in the league and players bought for up to £50M were no better than players they were previously buying for no more than £20M (sometimes much less).

To really kick on, they need to start paying much bigger wages in order to hang on to their best players. But they can't do that because they don't generate enough revenue to pay higher wages.

So it seems like they are reliant on continually unearthing and selling a fairly high volume of players. This is not unlike what Leicester were doing (quite successfully) recently and it ended up catching up with them too. Ultimately, none of these are big clubs.

This season, I would have thought Brentford are very vulnerable to relegation – and it wouldn't be a surprise to see Hurzeler sacked before Christmas if they have a slow start.

It's all water under the bridge but that article you have used from The Athletic is most definitely 100% not at all accurate, IMO, mate.

I say this because it didn't matter who Brands wanted, because how could he have signed either of those players for Benitez when the only money that was spent by Everton that summer, after the most divisive managerial appointment in their entire history, was around £1.5M?

He was poison to players, fans and club management. Worst manager decision since Walter Smith.

I think he also signed that El Ghazi from Villa in the January window. The signings of Demarai Gray, Solomon Rondon and Andros Townsend were in the summer of 2021.

Gough – past his best when he came to us.

We did Arteta a favour by raising his profile.

I always thought the signings of Patterson and Mykolenko were an attempt by Benitez to deflect any criticism stemming from his decision to get shot of Digne.

What's your issue with ex-Rangers personnel!

And much as you can criticise Big Dunc (in some aspects, fairly), he was one of our best players in the last 25 years. (Albeit that says a lot about how crap we've been in the last 25 years!)

Benitez was a convenient scapegoat.

Oh, we signed Arteta from Real Sociedad on loan with an option to buy to replace Gravesen and at £2M we got a bit of a bargain considering Tommy was sold to Reall Madrid for £5M. He also beat Ronaldo to the PFA Player of Year award at Everton.

We didn't need to do Arteta any favours, he came through the Barca ranks with his mates Xabi Alonso, Valdés, Iniesta & Xavi. At PSG, he was in the same team as Pochettino, Anelka & Ronaldinho.

One of the best players we've signed in our modern history and today would probably cost well over £50M.

You really don't know me. I don't care for Rangers at all but I'd love Patterson not to be shite.

We all believe what we want to believe but surely people can see that The Athletic, which is supposed to be a respectable football website or magazine, are telling lies with regards Benitez and Brands.

Brands wanted others even though he had no money (he actually told me himself, in Manchester, that there would be little business at Everton that summer) and suddenly when he left, Benitez was signing two full-backs, even though the writing was already on the wall with regards his future.

Suddenly, we had Lampard getting introduced alongside Dele Alli, and again I look back in amazement that we are still a Premier League club.

Mylolenko's price was also well over the value of the player and El Ghazi was turned down twice before by Benitez but still signed. I think he was hardly used in his time here.

Oh, and he didn't beat Ronaldo to the PFA Player of the Year award.

I never said he wasn't one of Everton's best signings in recent years. I said we did him a favour.

Packing them in at his personal appearances.

His book has been in The Times best sellers list for 11 weeks.

Kenwright nearly buried this football club. Some people are so fucking thick they still can't see what a mess he's left behind in his wake. We'll be paying for it for years.

I always say we're unlucky… but when you think about it, we're unbelievably lucky to still be here. Bournemouth, a fucking Third Division club a few years ago (and forever) with a 10k gate, make us look like rank amateurs. Pitiful.

I'm still keen to hear what's your issue with ex-Rangers personnel?

Like Tony, I don't think The Athletic piece is accurate. Also like Tony, I think it's amazing that we are still a Premier League club. I don't think any other Premier League club has ever experienced anything like it over a sustained period without going down and going into admin.

El Ghazi was signed prior to Rafa's sacking.

I think he was part of the Digne deal.

Fair

The much-quoted £1.5M net spend under Benitez is partial; the sale of Lucas Digne alone generated £25M. This was invested in purchasing Mykolenko and Patterson. I remember a number of posters lauding that as great business, which hasn't aged well.

Digne was earning £118k a week at Everton, therefore he wasn't even the highest wage earner at the club. He was sold because he disagreed with Benitez's tactics, not to reduce the wage bill.

Given his extreme control needs, I doubt any player would be signed without approval from Benitez. What is dysfunctional is that the club still proceeded with the sale of Digne and purchase of Mykolenko and Patterson when they must have been debating the sacking of Benitez at the time.

But you're not going to convince me that The Athletic is "lying" in its account of the Benitez - Brands interaction. Patrick Boyland has been a consistently accurate reporter on Everton since joining the New York Times 6 years ago, and while nobody gets it right all the time, this could well be a situation where sources sharing accounts with various outlets disagree, or shade those accounts for their own reasons, or just simply don't know the entire story.

One aspect of that turbulent period rarely reported is that Moshiri and Kenwright, who had been joined at the hip since Moshiri bought the club, were at loggerheads because Kenwright bitterly opposed Moshiri's hiring of Benitez. So it's possible that Moshiri, who would have had to authorize Benitez's sells and buys, was for the first time making decisions without his "buddy's" input.

Steve #204, I've also wondered if it was possible that Moshiri was not considering sacking Benitez when those three player deals were struck. Remember, Rafa was fired after an emergency board meeting following the Norwich game, and Moshiri never made a statement about his removal. Perhaps it was the result of the board telling the owner that the guy had to go.

Pure guesswork, but it would explain the strange succession of events.

That sort of strategy does tend to eventually catch up with you. Brighton are probably in a better position, but they have also sold a key player in Pedro to Chelsea.

On Benitez, I was uncomfortable from the onset, but stayed behind the team. If we take our blue-tinted glasses off and our dislike of his links with the neighbours, his managerial pedigree and successes can't be dismissed and him labelled as a footballing idiot.

He was given little backing, with the only outlay in the summer being £1.7M on Demarai Gray. The rest were frees (Townsend, Rondon and Begovic).

He was backed in January with £30M spent on Mykolenko and Patterson. We can say want we want about those two players and Benitez the manager, but another way of thinking is that at least he was doing what not a lot have done, trying to address our full-back issue.

But by then, the writing was on the wall. Despite a decent start, any reluctant good will wasn't going to last long and my word, it turned quickly. I remember saying at the time, it would go toxic quickly, and it did.

Even though he was one of our better players, £25M is a good fee for a full-back, let alone one who's almost 30.

The trouble was the replacements we bought. If we'd used that money to buy Estupinan and Dumfries or Livramento (both of whom Benitez turned down apparently), it would have been a great move. Sadly we overpaid for Patterson and Mykolenko. For me, the strategy was right but the execution wrong.

It was similar in the 80s when half and half bobble hats were the rage. Everton mostly, but not exclusively, wore Everton-Celtic, Liverpool wore Liverpool-Rangers.

Liverpool as a city is not as straight forward as Glasgow, so the lines have never really been clearly defined. Certainly not in my lifetime.

Player transfers also played a part. The is also an affiliation between Liverpool and Celtic over Dalgliesh (boyhood Rangers supporter) and although the bobble hats had gone, there was an assumption our supporters preferred Rangers with the arrival of Walter Smith and Duncan Ferguson and the colour of the shirt.

Rangers also have strong connections with Chelsea supporters and Celtic with Manchester United. It's not really clear cut.

I only have 3 foreign teams I follow. Celtic in Scotland, Schalke in Germany and Roma in Italy (pre-TFG, since 2001).

His old mate and then Rangers boss, Gerrard, came out after the first failed bid and said the £5m offer from Everton was “like something out of a joke book”. An improved £8m offer was also said to have been knocked back.

After the club went back for Patterson, with an ultimately successful if inflated bid, in January, the player himself publicly credited a meeting with Benitez (and his determination to sign him) as being the primary influence on his decision to leave his boyhood club:

“That was a great moment for me, knowing that the manager at Everton really wanted me here. That really made my decision to be honest.”

Of course Brands could have surreptitiously spiked the ex-red shite's Ribena, slung his sweaty, limp body on a large leather swivel chair, dimmed all the lights and scurried under the desk as fast he could, just as the crimson-cheeked crap Rangers prospect entered the room, before playing carefully pre-selected lines from the ‘Princess Bride' on speaker phone, such as “You are wonderful”, “Offer me money…Power too. Promise me that”, “I could give you my word as a Spaniard”, and “I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?”

Perhaps Rafa was still really, really drowsy and simply trying to save face over being saddled with two full-backs he didn't want… and definitely didn't have anything to do with signing…when he later stated that “these two young players [Patterson and Mykelenko] are key for the future of the club”, had all the characteristics he was looking for, and were brought in because they fit “the style I want to install here”?

As for Digne, he was sold after Patterson and Mykolenko were brought in, not before. It was during the press-conference for the Hull City game, just after the pair were signed, that Benitez turned a few innocuous questions about whether the new boys would take part into a nonsensical, barely coherent, jakey-after-ten-tinnies like tirade against Digne and his (never previously displayed during his entire time at the club) ‘selfish' attitude and ‘lack of professionalism'…..before well and truly jumping the shark and starting his weird as fuck, South Park style mantra of “What would Peter Reid do?”

And anyone standing on Gwladys St in the sixties would remember one half shouting “Rangers!” and the other half “Celtic!”. So let's not try to rewrite history, sure, Rangers and Celtic half and half hats and scarves have been available but so what? We're not a Protestant club nor a Catholic club.

And don't get me started on those Welsh Baptists!😡

John Daley, very well written and full of humour. I think there was a public fallout between Benitez and Digne, who went on to say the feeling towards the manager of the time was widespread in the dressing room.

If I was Benitez, I’d have never taken the Everton job, but once I did, I’d have been over the moon that the club had finally signed me a couple of players, especially after doing the dirty work, and getting rid of players, on contracts that the club could no longer afford.

It shows you the shit-show. that had been developed over a very sad period of time and I can still remember speaking to a mate on the Monday morning after that Hull city game.

We discussed the game, both agreed that the Ukrainian kid, who had just made his debut, was nowhere near ready, and my mate who happens to know a few people, told me that the word from Duncan Ferguson, was that the kid we had just signed from Rangers, was also nowhere near ready for the EPL.

My guess is that Brands, who was an unmitigated disaster, was already looking at Patterson, before Benitez, was anywhere near Everton, and he will have also been looking at Mykolenko, (his job was recruitment) before he lost his composure, whilst being confronted by an angry fan, straight after the Merseyside Derby.

As I have said previously, we all believe what we want to believe, and this is another one of those stories.

I used to hate Benitez, but not on the scale I have ever despised Bill Kenwright, and I was hopeful that the fat, little, belligerent, goatee-faced Spaniard, was going to come in and expose our chairman, in a similar way he had exposed Hicks & Gillette, to the Liverpudlians.

Although this never happened, I still never got any joy when Kenwright and his cronies, eventually exposed themselves.

Everton, had slowly become an embarrassment, a club full of average players, staying put and seeing out their incredible contacts, or inept directors and directors of football, getting paid fortunes to say nothing, once they had been asked to leave.

I will always be of the opinion that Bill Kenwright, did the most damage, followed by Koeman, Brands and Walsh.

Benitez was a crazy appointment, but he was only here a few months, and was definitely the only manager, that reduced our wage bill, and our spending, even if he’s getting the blame for both Mykolenko and Patterson!

I have also heard it said that Benitez, was the only person who never had to sign a non- disclosure, because even Bill Kenwright, acknowledged him, when he said that nobody would believe anything he had to say, anyway!

Yeah - you definitely are naive and you really should leave it there.

All this is complete nonsense as it was in the 1950s when I started watching Everton. Everton were called a Catholic club simply because they had quite a few Irish players!

Houlding, the RS founder was, of course, a Grand Master of the Orange Lodge.

Religion is the ultimate form of social control. Let's keep it off these pages.

I'm still failing to see any reference to religion or sectarianism on this thread.

Someone said they follow Everton and Celtic. Someone else asked who would they support if they played each other. Another asked about the connections between Everton and Celtic. I gave my own explanation.

I don't recall anyone criticising Rangers.

Everton spent next to nothing at the beginning of Benitez's spell at Everton. I certainly don't recall any bids for Patterson at that time.

Digne hadn't been playing well for about 12 to 18 months before he was sold for a good profit on what he was bought for. Although Mylenko coming in didn't help — how anyone could think that was good business after seeing him in that Hull City game amazes me — he looked absolutely pathetic.

Benitez was advised by many people not to take the Everton job but foolishly ignored them. The mess he inherited was much bigger than he or anyone knew and Lampard and Dyche had to endure the same mess under the reign of Kenwright. Not Moshiri — or even Usmanov, whose money it was, until Usmanov had had enough of Kenwright and told him to button it over his rejection of Benitez.

Benitez was appointed and was on a loser from the off, not wanted by the chairman, 95% or more of the fans, and yet he had a go until the disastrous Norwich game when two blunders early in game by Keane put them 2-0 down and Benitez down and out as well.

Again, who mentioned religion?

A lot of Celtic supporters did start leaning towards Liverpool when Dalgleish signed. Maybe I should have been more specific in that I was talking about supporters, not the clubs. And it did happen with Everton in the 90s.

As you say, you started watching Everton because of the players, not the religion. That was my point.

I'm well aware of Everton's connections to Ireland going back to the 50s. It is still very visible. Has been at Goodison and will be at the new stadium, with Everton-Irish flags and banners inside the ground and sold on the stalls outside.

Nothing to do with religion.

Okay - try telling that to every non-Rangers fan in the SPL - especially Aberdeen. Try telling that to the city of Manchester when Rangers fans wrecked their city after getting beat in UEFA Cup.

Rangers and their fans aren't liked for many many reasons - a history of club corruption and their fan behaviour is right up there.

I have very very good reasons not to like Rangers Football Club - mainly on professional basis - they tried to stop my filming accreditation at a Dutch football tournament- just because of my name - it was considered too “fenian”.

Handily, Craig Johnson told them to go fuck themselves and I got full access to Liverpool - I was allowed to film on their team coach, their dressing room before the game and I ended up going on the piss with them in Amsterdam. They couldn't have been more open - unlike Rangers.

If nobody wants to talk about Rangers on here, fine - don't. But do not accuse anyone of “sectarian bias” because they don't like a club whose very identity is based on just that. It's a pig ignorant, cheap, erroneous slur.

The most divisive manager in the history of the club, was told to reduce the wage bill and he would be given money to spend, and after doing what he was told and taking loads of flak for getting rid of Rodriguez, the club gave him £1.5 million to spend🤷‍♂️

That’s not a narrative Steve, that is a complete and 100% fact.

I can understand people hating Benitez, but fuck me, we had a man who professed to be an Evertonian, who slowly destroyed us over many years.

He split the fan base with lies, was even prepared to move us to Kirkby, sold us and made a fortune, and yet still got to stay on as chairman.

Bill fell out with Moshiri, because he didn’t want Benitez, and this put Farhad, in an uncomfortable position because he would have had to sanction £1.5 million worth of deals without his Chairman, being involved?

No wonder it has rarely been reported!

If this is the case, then clubs who have European football have an unfair advantage. What are FIFA, UEFA, the FA and Premier League going to about that?

Nevertheless, we will just have to trawl the remainder and build a squad that can bond and compete with the rest.

Or were they never there?

Hugely divisive and was always going to be. The I wouldn't say divisive and it was almost universal.

Another way I though about it, is that he, like many an Everton manager of that period, were lambs to the slaughter. An easy target for the club hierarchy to point the finger and deflect blame from their own mismanagement.

Mal @224, I don't think anything. By qualifying for Europe on merit, those clubs have not gained an unfair advantage. They have put themselves in a more advantageous position to attract players.

During the meeting, the man, got a phone call, so I went in the other room, because I knew he was speaking to Benitez, and thought he might have wanted some privacy.

When the call was finished and we started speaking again, he said Rafa, had just told him that Duncan Ferguson, had met members of the board, the previous night.

Tell your mate to be careful, I said, we both know how ruthless professional football is. But thinking about things logically, whilst writing this post, imagine getting the sack after six months and getting the remainder of your contract paid up?

It’s not a fucking bad life for some, is it🥲

I always look back at the signings of Mykolenko and Patterson, as the signings that took us over the PSR, threshold Danny.

I know that won’t be completely true but, if you bring in the most divisive manager in the history of the clubs existence and give him £1.5 million to spend, then surely these actions show that the club was in a lot of financial difficulties?

We didn’t need either of those young fullbacks (both of whom clearly didn’t look ready, so I often think if we had sold Luca Digne, and brought in a decent left back on loan we might have eventually avoided sanctions?

That may be the case, but yet again teams who are mid division or lower will never be able to close the gap on the elite clubs and that may generate the Super League breakaway call again, because those clubs are disadvantaged.

Everton are being hampered by psr rules and now via European qualification. The only way that we can bridge the gap is by being fortunate with bargain basement signings.

As a 10 year old who went to a C of E primary school I was actually once asked why I supported a catholic club!

As Phil # 225 points out, Everton originated from a Methodist church and the district of Everton was predominantly Orange, although, again quite oddly, we have never actually played in Everton!

I suppose the true early difference between Everton and the RS was that the RS were founded by Conservative brewer and we were run by a mainly progressive Liberal committee.

Back in the day, when it was simply a straight knockout in all European competitions it may well have been easier for a team not in Europe to sign quality players. Nowadays clubs in the big five European leagues are guaranteed a minimum six (EL) or eight (CL) games, so players naturally want to join them, even though they know they have no chance of winning the competition.

We have the nucleus of a decent team, we just need to have a more than decent squad and there’s no reason why we can’t get into the European places this season. Of the teams I’ve mentioned above, three of them (Villa, Newcastle and Forest) have been in the championship in the past ten years or so, have one good season in the premier league and qualify for Europe. This then helps in recruiting better players and you take it from there.

We had many good seasons under Moyes first time around in Europe, despite a serious lack of money. Had we had Moyes from the start of last season, then who knows? I heard something on Saturday night during the game that the points won by Moyes since he came in last January would have been more than enough to avoid relegation, so how many could he have won since the start of the season? We’ve also been hampered by some shit, but likeable, managers, and of course an owner who couldn’t run a tap and a useless chairman. That’s all changed and along with the new stadium, we should now be able to start challenging the likes of Villa and Newcastle for those European spots.

That's one of the reasons why European qualification, be that through winning a trophy, or league position, should be an absolute priority, even in the short-term. I know some will scoff at that.

I totally understand that, Bill. I served with many Celtic and Rangers supporters. All mates and healthy banter. Yes, the songs would stray into the traditional ones, but never any trouble. I also spent 3 years of my life in Northern Ireland, and my Presbyterian Grandfather was from there. I'm more than familiar with sectarianism, whether football related or not.

Phil @225, yes Everton's roots were in a Methodist Church, but I don't think religion came into it. The iconic and much loved St Luke's is Anglican.

I'd have to listen to the TW elder statesmen and women, but from stories and reading, the perception that Everton were Catholic comes from two trains of thought.

Our traditional support base came from the northern part of the city where a lot of Irish settled in the 19th century. And as mentioned by yourself, the 1950s, when we had a few Irish players, which drew support on football grounds. Not to dissimilar with what we have now with Seamus and, more recently, Jake O'Brien.

I, and most of my family are Catholic. But that isn't why I support Everton. It has never crossed my mind. Half of the family are Kopties. My mother was C of E, the wife was Methodist. It doesn't really bother me and is irrelevant to football.

Most players prize a pay rise / wages above all else.

The real competition is in wages, not European football.

I know that we have had to put up with some crap with regard to ownership, management and players. Now we have a blank canvas and we cannot make the mistakes of the past.

My point is, that the elite are getting stronger financially, because they of the position that they repeatedly in by being top four or six, to the point where the lesser teams cannot compete, other than by miraculously having a great season.

The lesser teams/squads just become cannon fodder and my fear is if that is a regular occurrence, then the elite clubs will once again use their powerful status to broach the Super League again, and who will be interested in that? The Arabs and their league teams.

I'm 64, supported Everton all my life and heard the religion discussion many times. I'm pleased to say it's never been more than a discussion.

I've heard many reasons for footballing religious divide, locations of fans, history of supporting fan base, origins of club, etc. All hold a little bit of truth but none hold sway as to why one club in our city is Catholic and one Protestant.

The facts show our fan bases are religious mixes and I'm pleased to say religious bias has never been more than a low-key debate.

Whilst it's an interesting conversation, discussing histories etc, it's best left at that. More important matters… like building our squad for starters…

He sacked Danny Donachie and restructured the medical team because of player injuries, rather than looking at his habit of playing injured players; he also forced changes in the recruitment department. He thought he was expert in everything – he probably told the groundsmen how to cut the grass.

On the playing side, his atrocious man management skills meant he lost the squad after 6 months. He also had over £26 million to spend on players when the sale of Digne is factored in. He simply fucked that up as well by telling the club to sign Patterson and Mykolenko; that was after he got his own way in signing Townsend, Grey and Rondon (Everton's fattest footballer of recent times?).

After dismantling Everton, his next managerial stint at Celta Vigo lasted 9 months before they also sacked him after 5 wins in 28 games.

Moshiri was a terrible owner, Kenwright was a terrible owner and chairman and Benitez was a terrible manager. We've had a few.

Will you also agree that Ancelotti was a terrible manager at Everton?

Although I did find other parts bordering on the ridiculous, if I'm being totally honest, mate.

So you thought he did well at Everton — fair enough, each to their own.

It was only 14 years later when we moved from the cabbage patch at the top of Stanley Park did we find we were playing on a superb bit of grass next to an Anglican Church.

I'm glad St Luke's will still feature with the women playing at Goodison Park.

The Everton Heritage Society is relocating to across the road from Bramley-Moore Dock, but the heritage remains and continues at both stadiums.

If the powers that be find a formula to make football a level playing field (corny term that), then please let it gravitate to politicians too, so that lesser mortals can enjoy fair rewards for their efforts.

On religion, I do remember teams being attributed with catholic and protestant ties, but that seems consigned to history for most people, and if it was possible to do an accurate poll of club officials, players and fans, the diversity would be very clear.

So religion and sport don't mix.