West Ham steal a win after Everton make more defensive mistakes

Everton so embarrassed… they don't name any on their Twitter team line-up!!!!

But the Official Team sheet shows 11 this time, with Keane and Tarkowski now fit enough to participate... perhaps.

Meanwhile, Moyes may have shot out to buy some boots!

Nothing to stop Moyes playing a few more subs... except his own inimitable conservative nature! At least he's given Harrison Armstrong a starting role.

That move didn't work out well for the lad.

Are you surprised? Fans here got fleeced for the Club World Cup all summer, only to see second rate Korean and New Zealand teams.

Now a meaningless friendly on a hot afternoon?

I tried to let down gently the folks on TW who thought we had a big fan base in the US.

Sad to say, but Manure v the RS would probably be a near sell-out. We can only chip away, it's a long way back to the top.

Of the 4 goals we have conceded, we have assisted 3 of them and failed to do the basics and close down quick enough for another.

Patterson is shite, we have to get a replacement ASAP. I'm not sold on O'Brien either; Keane we all know about.

I'd like to see Armstrong do more to get involved.

And for what!… Travers is shit!

Not too bad a result… what was the performance like over the full match?

Woeful from both sides.

I just had a quick look at the Live Forum and they seem to confirm what you've said.

The need for more new gifted(?) players is getting greater with each game!

I've passed wind more than you've passed fullbacks.

The best thing about the match was Liam renaming our backup keeper 'Traversty'.

It's a good standard and he should do well.

I'll have to watch him a few times before I can comment on him — if he's that bad, we'll have Traversty and Calamity competing for the goalie's shirt — looks like Calamity will keep it!

Off back to bed now to wait for my second hit and miss of the night… for fuck's sake, what an exciting life I lead!

And to heck with a set-piece coach, our boys need a passing coach!

A Sunday league keeper would be embarrassed with that give away. Never mind pre-season, basic errors that pro footballers shouldn't do.

Heath looked bright when he came on. McNeil and Patterson terrible. How can it be so hard to find a decent right-back? We are constantly giving the ball away and the only chance we created for our new forward was a lovely low cross from O'Brien which went begging.

Never mind new players, the ones we have need to be able to do the basics and right now they can't. Lots of work to be done or it's going to be another long season, new stadium or not.

I concur. It was pretty bad, like Sunday league after a night out on the town. Wayward passes, lack of concentration, no communication, childish errors from both teams.

Armstrong did well for the goal then later had Ross Barkley rabbit in the headlights moments. Keane had a Keane game and O'Brien again was ready to be his partner in crime.

Tim tries but overcommits on tackles and no one reads his forward passes. Garner again underwhelmed to say the least. You know Beto is Beto. Barry looked lively but nothing produced.

McNeil is teacher's pet — not sure why he's in the team. Patterson terrible as ever but Myko pushing him close as a headless chicken. Gueye got whacked early and never seemed to get back into it.

Dreadful advert for the Premier League. No wonder there was a larger crowd on the Live Forum than in the stadium!

But on the plus side I couldn't make it in person. A couple of years ago, we were even worse – getting spangled 4-1 by Inchy's Minneapolis team – so that I guess is the positive.

That plus, without Dele, Calvert-Lewin, Mina, Gomes and Gbamin, tonight's lot earned a lot less for their “efforts”.

Garner hacking down his opponent just highlighted how bad it was – can't compete, give up.

But it's only pre season...

I thought Barry was poor and could not hold the ball up. The passing was awful and we were beaten by a better side. Tough game coming up on Sunday against Man Utd!

They never work, we are always shit, the playing surface is always shite, the stadiums half-full and the average fan has to stay out until the witching hour to see them.

If we must travel, then we should be going to the Far East where we'd much much quicker get a fan base as they are more passionate about football than the Americans.

But if anything ,we should learn our lesson and just stick to playing in Scotland away to Hearts, Celtic, Aberdeen and then maybe go and play one friendly in Spain.

Anyway, not much to write home about, another shit show with no quality or pace going forward. It's only a friendly but we can see where we need players bringing in.

Just over 2 weeks to the start of the new season and we look in poor shape. Leeds must be licking their lips watching these shit shows.

Given what we have seen so far, it's looking more and more like yet another season of struggle.

I take it when you say 'Calamity', you're referring to Pickford.

Honestly, I can't believe I've just read that — he has numerous England caps and single-handedly kept us in the Premier League on at least 2 occasions.

Dave, I want you to name me one single keeper that Everton could buy who would be a significant improvement on Pickford.

I've got news for you, there isn't one, there really isn't.

I love some of.our fans I really do.

1) I got two days away with my 9-year-old, a father-son bonding experience like no other, explaining why we endure such crap displays from our beloved club;

2) the Lake Michigan cruise the night before was lovely, all joy meeting Seamus and Leighton and Inchy after a few adult beverages (him and me) — Seamus really is a class act like no other, took time to converse with every last guest;

3) Tarkowski was healthy enough to participate;

4) Harrison Armstrong, while making a few mistakes, one that nearly cost us a goal, looks like he can play a real part for us and is assured enough to give me confidence in his future.

The rest of it? Mostly dreadful. We're left with four real class players — Pickford, Gana, Ndiaye and Branthwaite — and Gana plus Tarkowski could quickly lose a step with age. Given that, we're an injury or two away from another real relegation battle.

I know I shouldn't freak out this early, but Moyes was just speaking the truth the other day regarding our need for new signings. Without a new right side and a new central midfielder with creativity, we'll be in real trouble to start the season.

The scariest part is we'll have no choice soon but to either overpay for those new players or take a chance on somewhat unproven new players — or both — which could easily go wrong.

As for the crowd, actually ended up being a decent number once all the Man Utd fans made it in. Apparently the traffic was awful getting to the stadium, plus who would want to watch the first match if they didn't have to?

But yeah, having a great trip with my kid and have met some lovely fellow Evertonians along the way.

Looking forward to those who gave you pelters speaking up, as Dave A is right.

A Traversty of a performance by the keeper.

I'm more worried about this season than I have been previously. We can't string any passes together. Garner also needs punting — he brings absolutely fuck-all to the side except sideways passing.

Worth remembering that in 2004-05, when we finished 4th and gained a shot at the Champions League, we had a poor pre season having lost 2-1 to Crewe Alexandra, drew with a poor Burnley side, and got beat 3-1 by a Mexican team who were no great shakes before we eventually beat Sheffield Wednesday and drew with Real Sociedad.

If we rolled back the years to the pink Echo letter days of 25 years ago, they'd be spoken about in the same breath as Scott Gemmill, Idan Talk and John Oster etc etc.

We need better if we are ever to move up that Premier League table.

I'll hold back on pressing the panic button, I think.

Sigh.

I'm with Steve @39, no need to press the nuclear alert button.

Positives to take from that?

Gana scored!!! And that followed good anticipation from Armstrong to steal the ball, with his instinct being to run forward and drive at the defence. Then patience as he waited for support from the runner (Gana), before setting him up.

Great delivery from O'Brien to put it on a plate for Barry. The striker opted to try to use his right foot from a right-sided cross. He was there and if he'd used his left to cushion it, that's in.

Tarkowski getting 20 minutes. Good to see him back.

I think that's about it.

As for Travers, he made a couple of good early saves, but I'm not sure what he was thinking for the West Ham equaliser. He seemed to get caught in 2 minds. To me, it looked like the catch was on. He hesitated and went for the punch, which he messed up.

Coupled with our non-success (thus far) in the transfer market, it doesn't augur well for the forthcoming season, which is just over 2 weeks away. Unless we have a few incomings to improve us, I don't envisage anything other than a relegation struggle again.

And interestingly, on the back of their greatest achievement, stormy waters at Crystal Palace. Boardroom turmoil, courtroom appeal over Europe, manager going public over lack of transfer activity, and probably about to lose 2 key players.

Moyes having a dig at the owners is a new thing for him. In his previous life under Kenwright, he was always the well behaved, toe-the-line disciple when it came to lack of funds for new players.

Have the Yanks sold him London Bridge and he's just realising it?

These games mean fuck-all.

Why do we keep signing and being linked with so many young players if he wants experienced ones? Fofana isn't experienced and most of the ones we've brought in aren't either.

I think the same as Danny and Ernie. Caught between 2 minds, catch or punch and avoid Mykolenko and/or the West Ham player.

As a debut, it could have gone better.

Great you had a positive experience and built up some memories with your family.

I only watched the first half before I went to bed. It wasn't a great game; West Ham where equally as bad although they did rest a few players from their starting 11.

Why did we spend £4M on a sub goalie when we had Virginia on the books? Travers looks like a shot-stopper and obvious bad decision-maker.

Keane gifted their striker a 1 v 1 in the space of 5 minutes but the goalie did well to save. The young West Ham striker looked quite lively.

Armstrong looked so composed running half the length of the pitch and made the correct decision to play in Gana. 10 minutes later, Ndiaye was in a very similar position and made a poor decision in trying to shoot from the edge of the box when he had players around him.

I assume Patterson is getting game time to prove to Moyes how awful he is. I honestly prefer Garner at right-back.

We defo missed an opportunity not trying to pick up Walker Peters who isn't a work beater but is a steady 7 out of 10 every week. He kept McNeil quiet for the 1st half.

Another uninspiring pre season. Moyes moaning about the squad size when we all knew the situation 12 months ago isn't great pre season for motivation.

We need to go shopping where Brentford and Bournemouth go. Bring in unknowns with some hunger but that's too obvious isn't it. Just bring in bodies with prem experience would improve the squad, brownhill, coufal and Wilson.

Got my emailed season ticket yesterday, even with the new ground my enthusiasm is low.

I get that we are short on numbers at the back right now for various reasons but we went backwards defensively after Moyes came in.

It looks like we are in for another season where we will be playing catch-up by October.

Perhaps they don't want to commit significant amounts of investment for a manager who may not be here in 12 months time???

I don't understand why they don't make the signings in time so that they can go on the pre-season tour??? Team bonding, tactics, different formations, combinations, etc, etc.

It just seems a waste of time. No doubt we will be playing catch-up after half-a-dozen games, as per usual.

Some people! 😵‍💫

Winners expect to win, losers expect to lose (if they are that bothered).

I haven't seen Everton play a good match since Ancelotti left (and even then, it was before he was robbed).

An under-prepared squad. Piss-poor performances in empty stadiums… (Well, maybe not on Sunday when we play Man Utd!)

Would they risk relegation in their first season at the new ground? What a disaster that would be!

Back him or sack him as we likely will be struggling without major additions having seen the pretty impressive recruitment additions at the three newly promoted clubs.

The new owners need to put up and back Moyes. Failing that, we probably will face our usual relegation battle, having seen and witnessed our pre-season games.

However, it's been pointed out on here that the Sky TV money doesn't turn up until August so the market doesn't liven up until then. Sellers, agents and buyers then spend a couple of weeks playing brinkmanship and weighing up options before a high volume of deals start being done.

It's a stupid system but there is not much you can do unless the club is very, very rich. We are not.

As to our right-back woes, it gets me every season. A top quality right-back could help transform our team and style of play. I am a bit surprised and disappointed at how few links there are to new right-backs therefore. I remain optimistic though.

Can't they buy COD!

The only reason we were solid defensively under the Dinosaur is because we offered literally nothing going forwards. At all.

We may have conceded a few but we certainly didn't ship goals for fun, and we didn't get battered by anyone. Not even away at Them or Chelsea.

I'll never understand why managers like Dyche get credit for organising a defence, as any manager at that level could easily set his team up to defend deep and hope for the odd counter or set piece. It's the most basic we to play.

I know we're all a bit frustrated but these games mean nothing, and I'm sure we'll have a few more signings done and dusted over the next few weeks.

Tarks got 20 mins last night, Jarrod is being looked after back at FF, so as long as they're both fit for Leeds we'll be solid enough at the back. Even if it means O'Brien has to play RB again.

Those questioning why was Joao Virginia allowed to leave? Well his contract was up and maybe he felt he should be playing regularly. Was he offered a new contract, I don’t know, but either way maybe he felt it was time to move on.

Patterson was Patterson……..shite. Looking at him it looks like he’s put a bit of beef on. Has he been eating too much haggis in the close season? Two or three times in the first half he made runs down the right, one in particular when he got onto a pass, and having all the time in the world to put a cross in, dallied and let the defender block him. I doubt we will see him in a blue shirt again, and until we sign another right back, I think O’Brien will play there, alongside Branthwaite and Tarkowski. I did say earlier in the week that a right back was not an immediate priority, but maybe it is.

Watching McNeil, and did he really want to be there? A few times in the first half Mykolenko was playing balls down the channel for McNeil to run onto, or to Beto who lacked the support of McNeil.

The scary thing is what you see is what we have. It will probably be near enough the same team on Sunday, except for Pickford being back in goal, and hopefully Tarkowski in alongside probably Keane with O’Brien at right back. Might Aznou get a run out? The good thing is Branthwaite will be available for the Roma game, so should bring a bit of stability to the back four.

Moyes has certainly got his work cut out in the next couple of weeks to get a few more bodies through the door, but it’s quality not quantity we need, so don’t be buying for buying sake. Maitland-Niles at right back is not a bad shout, and yes I would bring Grealish in on loan, and hopefully Douglas Luiz. There are plenty out there, it’s just a question of finding them. I don’t want us rushing out and doing a Leeds or Sunderland, overloading the squad with players who will take months to gel.

Whatever, but I don’t think it’s time to hit the panic button just yet!

Ndiaye was in a very similar position and made a poor decision in trying to shoot from the edge of the box when he had players around him.

I was so frustrated — again! — when I saw him do that. What is it about the decision-making of our forward players? The only explanation that suits my agenda to a tee is they are coached by someone who only knows about defense.

Once a centre-back, always a centre-back.

To judge a ‘keeper for one bad mistake(?) isn’t the thing to do, all ‘keepers, even the very best of them make howlers and lets be honest Pickford has made plenty of them along with his outstanding saves.

Pickford. Pickford
Young. O’Brien
O’Brien. Tarkowski
Keane. Branthwaite
Myko. Myko
Garner. Garner
Gueye. Gueye
Harrison. McNeil (?)
Alcaraz. Alcaraz
Ndiaye. Ndiaye
Beto. Beto

Better imho.
That’s if we bring no more in, in time.
I’m not worried about the early season games.

You know me well and I think we can be a bit more ambitious. As I've mentioned before, with the much-admired "B" clubs losing their best players and Palace in something of a crisis at all levels, we can leapfrog those who finished above us last season.

I'd keep an eye on Villa too. They may still have to sell to balance the books and avoid further penalties. This is double-edged as it isn't just the Premier League's PSR – they have to be compliant with Uefa's FFP given they are in European competition.

If he only knows about defence, perhaps he should concentrate on persuading his centre backs, O'Brien and Keane, to stop laying on back passes to the feet of opposing forwards.

Scoring goals is clearly an issue. From what I could see from the TV coverage, a contributory factor is our inability to control play in midfield.

As yet, we lack a midfield unit capable of dominating possession and crafting chances from that possession. We remain heavily reliant on catching the opposition with the sort of quick counterattack from which Armstrong created our goal.

(And before anyone with a tendency for stupid jokes like me says it, I'm imagining that team transported to now, not playing at the age of 40 or 50+, 20 years later.)

Andy #33, like you, I would be interested to hear what better keepers than Pickford are around and why they are better. Of course he still makes occasional mistakes, but the amount of time he is directly involved in play, as well as the quality of team in front of him, need to be taken into account.

I don't believe it's a coincidence that he has made only 1 error leading to a goal in over 70 games for England, when he's involved in the game less and has better quality to play alongside.

Also need that player that can sniff a goal out, can anticipate a cross coming in, I would send Chermiti out onloan, Betto and Barry look similar, none of the three fill me with them getting anywhere near 20 goals a season

We need a Vardy or Watkins type of player who can make chances for themselves, can put those half chances away.

38 now Vardy but a year contract on a free would ceftainly give a bit of leaway time for Chermiti and Barry.

Lets not sign overaged players or players near the end of their career I can imagine some saying, but if Guaye is good enough for another 2 season then I certainly think Vardy at 38 could still have another season or so left in him, if used as a squad player.

We need to stop giving the ball away.

We need to stop stupid lackadaisical mistakes.

Footballers need to take responsibility for their performances, and Hammond & Kinnear need to take responsibility for not converting players identified into players signed.

The carping that the manager is responsible for everything is clueless.

Arne Slot ain't doing it all at Liverpool, he has great players, and Richard Hughes & Michael Edwards doing the business behind the scenes.

So far, McNeil looks uninterested. Unhappy at playing out wide or just doesn't like pre-season kickabouts? I will wait to see how he does vs Leeds to pass judgement.

Looking for positives is not easy. But I was impressed by Armstrong's contribution to our goal. How often have we seen other players carry the ball from the halfway line to the penalty area and then play a terrible final pass?

Armstrong kept his composure and played Gana in. Definitely a positive but we hardly saw him for the other 89 minutes. I think he was doing a lot of running and covering right to the end so he is fit enough.

It was a chance to look at Barry. Is he really 6'-5"? He didn't win a ball or really challenge, unlike Beto who always gives his marker a hard time. Sadly none won the ball like Calvert-Lewin in his prime.

O'Brien does not look comfortable at centre-back but did at right-back putting across a goal-worthy cross that was not converted. What to make of Chermiti? Likes to put his foot in but no real chance to assess his potential.

So we have another 90 minutes on Saturday. Hopefully it will see a proper backline and defensive midfield. Can't see where a goal will come from. Yes, we need another 5 or 6 players but we desperately need a midfield creator — not Grealish, I hope… unless he is Grealish from Villa!

Why was he playing in an advanced position?

What the fuck, Moyes???

The fans on here won't be happy until another manager is through the door.

Great point on here about Slot.

Our lot seem to think Moyes should be running the academy, negotiating signings, making commercial deals… Some fan base!

I think a lot of fans cannot conceive of us being successful other than by the 1980s methods used when we were last successful.

The RS are sadly the best run club in the country – outperforming much better resourced clubs – but a real reluctance to follow the same (far from secret) recipe

Without having seen the whole match, I worry about a couple of players who to date have escaped TW wrath. O'Brien at centre-back looked a bit flaky to me both tonight and the last match.

Similarly with Charly Alcaraz and his ability to create opportunities for those around him… not sure he is going to deliver on these expectations.

Of course Moyes isn't in control of everything. No manager is anymore. Their job is the first team squad.

Ryan @81, you'll have to be more specific on your claims that the fan base on here won't be happy until Moyes is shown the door. That's tarring everyone with the same brush, which isn't factual. It's a sweeping statement.

Moyes has been very well supported and received by the supporters since his return, even from initial doubting Thomas's like me. You hear it in the stadiums every week.

It doesn't mean we can't criticise him or the players.

Keane got away with a blind back pass as well that he did deal with.

Garner jumped into Keane, and then O'Brien failed to engage for their second goal.

Poor individual mistakes that don't happen if Pickford, Tarkowski and Branthwaite play as a 3.

Armstrong was not in the centre of midfield, his rightful position.

Just as well we scraped a draw against Accrington Stanley.

Also, we'd better pray Pickford doesn't get injured. I'd be happier with the half-blind England Women's goalie.

The first West Ham goal was an idiotic disaster, the second was a pathetic attempt to save which should have been straightforward.