Carrow Comparisons

I think defence is still their weak point, but they should score more than they did last season.

Hopefully Fer is suspended as I'd heard, can see us ruing that missed opportunity (IMO probably fall-out after OFM agreed his new contract), especially with Mr Glass in our midfield.

Still, the game will be an opportunity to see if Martinez has ironed out the kinks in the new system. You'd think any Prem side would convert more of the chances we gifted Betis.

Hope not, I would rather discuss the games we play and not refer to our previous manager because ultimately it will end up with yet more boring comparisons and arguments between the pro and anti teams.

The King is dead, long live the King, we shouldn't care what happened last season, he's gone so it's an irrelevance. We are Martinez's Men now so last season means nothing to us.

I actually think that having a context by which we can objectively assess Martinez is relevant.

If we’re 1-0 up on Saturday and pressing for a second then that will be a statement of intent and night and day from last season.

You mention that we are “Martinez’s Men now” well I guess that also goes for the players. Now that will be interesting to see how he gets the players he’s inherited from Moyes to play, but I guess that would be deemed a comparison and off limits in your world.

Same thing at Goodison when they equalised in the last minute.

I hope Martinez eradicates that fear, but without leaving us too exposed.

But yes, OFMs defensive tactics in the last 20 minutes of a game were maddening.

I still think we are a much better side than Norwich player for player and I hope I can still say that on 1 September.

Fair enough, but what possible reason can there really be for the comparison of the two managers? Apart from the "you were right/wrong" culture.

It doesn't make any difference what Moyes did last season, it's what Martinez does this coming season.

What happens if we are 1-0 up and still go for it and lose 3-1, does that mean Martinez and his gung ho style is worse than keeping it tight?

Lets just enjoy (fingers crossed) this season for what it is, one under a new manager and one where our hopes are high. Not one where we constantly have battles on here been the anti and pro sides about well Martinez/Moyes did this last season and it worked/failed.

Fair enough, but what possible reason can there really be for the comparison of the two managers? Apart from the "you were right/wrong" culture.

It doesn't make any difference what Moyes did last season, it's what Martinez does this coming season.

What happens if we are 1-0 up and still go for it and lose 3-1, does that mean Martinez and his gung ho style is worse than keeping it tight?

Lets just enjoy (fingers crossed) this season for what it is, one under a new manager and one where our hopes are high. Not one where we constantly have battles on here been the anti and pro sides about well Martinez/Moyes did this last season and it worked/failed.

We grew to know what to expect from OFM at the start of each season although I must admit the way we played in the early part of last season was a pleasant surprise. However I guess I'm looking to establish a foothold in trying to understand what we will get under Martinez. I hope to enjoy ithe ride and reckon we'll have a lot less draws and more wins and losses.

I'm not overwhelmed by his résumé and don't like the relegation stigma irrespective of the circumstances however he did win a trophy. He's had a decent pre-season and has handled his new environment well. Which is more than can be said for OFM who has realised the intensity of media scrutiny at OT the hard way. Not a comparison just an observation!

I just don't want to end up using what was good about Moyes as a stick to beat Martinez with, or what was bad about Moyes to hype up Martinez' good points. It's pointless. Moyes is gone, Martinez alone is the manager now.

Both Martinez and the squad need to be judged on their own merits and failings, not somebody else's.

I am glad lemon face has gone, the tipping point for me being Stoke (H) 2011-12. Huth scores in 18th minute, game over. Thankfully I watched the game from home, via a link thanks to TW, so did not have a 4 hour journey home.

I have been a bluenose for 40 years now and seen managers come and go, I would thank Moyes for the stability he provided; that's all. 11 years he had with us!! The rest has been said already, so here's to Manure.

Final note from me: love Norwich for imploding (was it 95?) after Xmas, losing nearly every game and we stayed up.

You're right, Sam, other teams do sit back and defend games but we used to do it every game regardless of being home or away or who the opposition was.

I don't think Man Utd would sit back at Norwich, they would try to put game to bed... Oh, wait a minute, hasn't the other fella just gone to Old Trafford? Forget the last sentence, mate.

The problem is when teams do it with 20-30 minutes left.
Or at half time,as we did in the semi v Liverpool.

There's no doubt, this game at Carrow Road is going to be tricky, they've got a decent top 10 squad at their disposal. Iv'e been really impressed with their activity in the transfer market, the signings of Fer and Redmond for a combined Fee of 7 million look like the bargains of this transfer window so far

What happens very often is the losing side have nothing to lose by going on the all out attack and consequently drive the other side back wether the want to or not!
Of course some teams when they lead, do go on the defensive and I also think that attack is the best form of defense if you can continue.

Ramond(127)
We made it easy for teams to attack us when we were a goal up because we generally surrendered territory by dropping deep and cheaply lost possession by hitting it long. Good teams defending a lead can suck teams on and hit them on the break. We neither had the pace nor tactical guile to do either. Which is why I'm looking forward to seeing Martinez coach essentially the same players in a different way of playing.

As for Carrow Road and the past, I remember Van Den Hauwe's goal in 1987 after 43 seconds or something like that, then having to wait a whole game to have us confirmed as Champions!!! A great day.

Let's not get on Martinez's case so early on, give him a chance.

Anyone see Moyes' defeatist talk about Scotland being lucky to go one up on ITV tonight and how it was unexpected etc. Still think he won't last 2 full years at Old Trafford. But he's their problem now, let them worry about him.

Roberto is our main man and i'm looking forward to his time with us and i'm happy we got him. He'll be like a breath of fresh air around Goodison, I love his positivity and passion for the game.

Last season we had a genuine chance of finishing top 4, early doors we were playing some outstanding football and creating lots of chances. By the time January came along we had injury problems, certain players had lost their good early season form as well.

If there was ever a time when we needed our board to back our manager it was January 2013.

Its all speculation weather Moyes really knew he was off, no one will ever know the truth for certain. What is for certain is - we needed our board to invest in our playing squad to at least give us a chance of getting to the CL promise land.

Lets not forget the Fer fiasco, my guess is we failed to sell one of our own players, so that meant we didn't have the money to buy Fer. In the end BK created this cock and bull story about him having a dodgy knee, then he tried to get Fer on the cheap which FC twente was having none of.

I'm sick of people putting so much blame for our failings on Moyes. People should look alot more closely at our shambles of a board. Martinez will now have to endure the same fate as OFM did - without adequate backing - we will always find it hard to stay in touch with the big SKY, money clubs

Yep, I was in their main stand for the championship winning game. It was Bank Holiday Monday and Pat VDH scored with a header after 2 minutes.

There are very few players in the 2013 team that would get anywhere near that 87 team but I reckon Bainsey would sneak in ahead of Psycho Pat. It would ruin the song though!

We'll never fully know if Moyes had players he wanted to bring in but the board didn't back him.

What we do know is that Moyes has gone but the board is still here so Martinez will be working with one hand tied behind his back.

It's a bit like gratuitous use of capitals. Not really material to the discussion.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think there was real intent by ourselves when trying to sign Fer. The board, not for the first time and probably not the last time, let us down big time.

Anyway...the retreating really used to bug me especially at a 1-0. I watched us at Fulham last season and we mostly played like the home team. The suddenly, with 10 to go, it was like an alarm went off and the midfield and defence dropped back thus leaving a couple of runners (Naismith being one) as a completely useless outlet.

Fulham gladly filled the space we had granted them, their defenders pushing so far up that we were outnumbered and suddenly we were under huge pressure and they equalised and we lost a soft 2 points.

I won't miss that sense of self-fulfilling-prophecy tactics...

Ross,
No, because we're not comparing HK to our current manager.

Is that the soya based milk people are putting on cereal these days? Just another fad if you ask me.

With cock eyed observations like that thank goodness that is your last ever comment.
The manager,as usual,shit himself and had us defending the 1-0 lead.
Liverpool were all over the place and if we went for the killer second goal I have no doubt we would have got it.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

They were all saying the same, they could play all day without scoring. Stupid error and the whole face of the game changed.

Also, going back a bit, No 146, what a daft thing to say. If Moyes actually had any authority on budget and contracts, why would he give a toss if he was off? He could try and buy anyone he wanted with no comeback, no worries about debts and scrimping for loans.

It was Moyes to a T not helped by experienced players bottling it. 1-0 up and needing a second goal to kill off the worst RS team in 50 years we got jittery and started to get deeper and deeper. Distins back-pass was an aberration but the general mind-set in the second half summed up our approach in the big games under Moyes.

It was that game coming after the away derby capitulation that did it for me with Moyes.

Also, in answer to your other point, whatever I may think about his last couple of seasons I have Moyes down as an honourable guy. There is no way he would bring anyone in to the club and sell them his vision in January and off his pop in the summer. Which is the reason I believe he didn’t bring anyone in during the January window because he was already gone. It didn’t help us because with a bit of strengthening 4th was there for the taking .

On Saturday though they are missing Hooper and Fer, Redmond and V. Wolfswinkle have not had long with the rest of the squad (and never played in the prem) plus their defence still isn't great. I expect Martinez's first 3 points.

Howard
Coleman Jags Distin Baines
Gibson Fellaini
Mirallas Barkley Peinaar
Jelavic

(Osman to start if Gibson can't make it, Kone and Deulofeu feature from the bench).

The entire starting 11 were there last season, but it is a good team. I reckon our signings will start to feature more as the season goes on.

COYB!

Take your pick Sam the answer is Our Former Manager.

a bit like Prince then?

Hows this for a conspiracy theory?. Moyes wanted Fer, happy to waste £4m of our money knowing he was leaving so he could get Fellaini on the cheap after July 31st?

Hahahahahaha. Another £15m down the toilet. They waste more on one player than we spend in a season.