I began the season with my usual wild optimism: New boss, playing like Barca, loads of goals, a Lottery win etc. I have of course been telling She Who Must Be Obeyed that her Liverpool side will get relegated and we will beat them in the Cup Final. She still has that look of sympathy that first drew me to her...

However, the first two games have made me reluctantly (and against my usual nature when it comes to the Blues) take a slightly more realistic and longer term view.

I do think Martinez will prove to be a really good manager for us. I think he has the vision and skills and the only concern is if our Board piss him off too much. Obviously he will be slated by half of the Everton community by September but I dont think that will unduly concern him.

But I think we may struggle to be top 6 or 7 this season and I expect a true season of transition. I would predict a mid-table finish. I expect Martinez to be using this season to plan for the future and assess current squad. Therefore we may not be great. Some will realise they dont fit any more and sulk. Youngsters will come in but they will need a season to learn.

Overall, I think the improvements we hope for from the new manager will take longer than we wish. We may have a season like Liverpool last year as a new manager settles in and brings in his own players at end of season.

When I look at the team, I cant help think there will need to be plenty of changes and that key players in the current team arent up to it or fitted well with a Moyes ethos but wont with Martinez.


1. Distin and Jags coming to end of careers and not comfortable with new managers style of play. And probably wont become so.

2. Osman faithful servant but now past his best and regularly bundled off ball or playing poor passes. Doesnt help he was played out of position in the last few games.

3. Pienaar past his best. May last this season but next ?

4. Jelavic and Kone neither are top quality; tap-in merchants at best.

5. Anichebe squad player.

6. Fellaini great on his day... but hard to predict when will be his day.

7. Gibson good but injury-prone.

8. The Barca lad says it all. A Barca lad.

We do have Coleman, Baines, Mirallas and Barkley and we may also have some other youngsters who can fit in and do a job but they will need better leaders who can express the Martinez way.

So I am inclined to think we should sell Fellaini and use the money to start with the changes. (Though maybe wait until after 2014 World Cup to get maximum return as Belgium are a good team.)

But perhaps what we need to do most is give Martinez time and realise that at present we have Moyess team with his ethos deeply ingrained.

nb: I write this with some trepidation as we have just had a new Big Boss arrive at work who is a committed Blue and also reads ToffeeWeb.... So if he is reading this please bear in mind this suggested change of personnel at Everton is an example of excellent strategic thinking for the football Industry and should not be applied to our place of work especially to bargain buys like myself!

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Neil Roberts
1 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:13:35
I was just wondering if anyone thinks we will see the Barca lad, Gerard Deulofeu this season? If Martinez says he's a future star etc, then I expect him to get games in the first team and not kept hidden, or it's a waste of time having him here.
Ross Edwards
2 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:15:35
For some reason I thought that Phil Walling had written this, so I was surprised to see Ged's name on the article.
James Martin
3 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:16:41
I think we will only see Deulofeou in certain situations like if we are 2-0 down and need to chase a game or if we are cruising 3-0 up. Where we will not see him I wouldn't imagine is when we are drawing at home as one defensive slip from him (which apparently he is ridiculously prone to) and we could end up losing the game. I know its the caution that everyone on here hates so much but it seems to be what all the top managers do with renegade talents whod on't defend.
Ged Simpson
4 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:22:02
Pleasure to surprise Ross. It's not pessimistic - just think it will take a wee while
Brian Harrison
5 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:15:40
First I don't think we have the financial resources to make all the changes you suggest, we are at present one of the lowest spenders in the Prem in this window and it wont change till we sell one or more players. The problem with having to sell your best players every season means at some stage you will stop producing players other clubs will pay good money for.

Time will tell how good RM is as a manager, but like our FM he will have to find players nurture them and sell them, that as much as anything will define RMs tenure as manager. Because we have to buy small and sell big otherwise there is no transfer kitty and if we stop doing this then when that happens there is only one outcome, we will be in the relegation battles.

Patrick Murphy
6 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:19:24
I agree with most of that Ged, I don't think that Jags and Distin have had a particularly bad time of it, in the opening games, no more than they did last season, and Kone we haven't seen enough of yet, so it's a bit too early to tell with him.

But first thing to do is get to 40 points and quickly and let RM develop the team. I never felt through DM's pragmatism that he had any plans to build a team and due to chasing the holy grail of European football, he never had the opportunity to test out different strategies.

RM will have to muster a greater sense of urgency out of the current crop of players and get them to play with a passion in every game and not just the ones that they feel like performing.

I'm going to wait and see where we are and how we're playing at the end of October before getting over-excited one way or the other.

Kevin Tully
7 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:23:46
I can't imagine what we would be reading on here if we'd just spent 100m and been mugged at Cardiff as City were yesterday.

Got to agree about Jagielka especially, it was mental torture for him having to pass rather than hoof it yesterday - great defender, but doubt very much he will ever be a ball playing centre-half.

Kone should be judged after a run of games though, or are we writing players off after an hour now?

I thought Mirallas, Osman & Pienaar were all very poor on Saturday, yet we still dominated that game.

Patrick Murphy
9 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:35:56
Kevin the chances of Everton FC spending 100m this century is nil, after all we have actually made a profit from transfers since March 2002.

But I think you're about my age and may remember how much stick some of the players took if it looked as if we weren't going to mount a serious challenge for the League in the mid to late 80s, we never envisaged how bad it would get and how far off revisiting those days we really are.

As for City, I was very surprised that they lost yesterday, it might just be one of those seasons this year, I hope not because the Devil's spawn are getting results and they might do a Derby and sneak in amongst all the big boys - so as much as DM is not my favourite person, I don't want his team to get clobbered next week and I certainly don't want the other lot to re-emerge as proper challengers.
That would be truly unbearable.

Mark Frere
10 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:31:08

Its going to be much harder for Martinez then it is for Rodgers, because Brenda is backed by his board and has been able to splash the cash and build a squad much quicker.

I don't think Kone is in anyway a tap in merchant. He's very much an all round striker, he can cause defenders lots of problems with his pace and trickery(remember him destroying Heitinga last season). He can create chances for others like he did when playing along side DI Santo. I really hope he starts our next game.

Phil Walling
11 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:50:19
No mention of Wigan so how could I have written it ?
But I swear I'll swing for the bugger if he ruins the best centre -half in the Prem with his tippy-tappy shit!
Ross Edwards
12 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:54:05
one hundred million pence perhaps Patrick?
Ross Edwards
13 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:55:21
Phil, I'm curious to know who you wanted as manager rather than Martinez?
Patrick Murphy
14 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:58:20
Yeah that'll be the figure a Million quid total spend for the 21st century.
Paul Gladwell
15 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:51:53
I thought Kone did more in ten minutes than Jelavic did all game, he look lively and mobile whilst Jelavic looked what he was last year, a lumbering wreck always falling over and getting caught offside, I have backed him but my patience is at an end with him.
Whilst we never played well we still should have won and need the likes of Mirallas to pull his finger out big time, he was poor last week too.
If it was going to happen and we could keep the two lads and add that would be great but if not it has to be Fellaini if we can get two players in on his fee, he does not offer enough for us and we could get someone for 10m to play his five yard pass game and spend the rest on another striker as that is the problem area.
Ged Simpson
16 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:01:05
Mark - comparing with Rogers wasn't really the point I was failing to make. What I mean is don't expect a now questionable Moyes side to work miracles immediately

As for how we improve the team with this Board - haven't a clue.

Sean McKenna
17 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:01:45
Phil, this tippy tappy shit you refer too... all the top teams play from the back. Is it too much to ask a international defender to pass to teammate? Having the ball is also the best form of defense.
Phil Walling
19 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:07:43
Ross,I've fessed up three times,at least ! I wanted a good offer to be made for Laudrup. His team is bottom of the Prem so the laugh would have been on me!

Malky McKay was my second choice (Moyes on roller skates) and Phelan and his German mate would have done a job.

All the above are no nonsense guys who have won things and don't talk in riddles.

But it's only my opinion.I respect your thinking of Roberto as the second coming. Lets hope he is !

Ross Edwards
20 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:17:09
I'll be honest Phil. He wasn't top of my list either. I had Bielsa and De Boer and Laudrup as 1st, 2nd and 3rd, but we have to support the man in charge.
Matt Traynor
21 Posted 26/08/2013 at 17:41:22
Some good points in there Ged, but some I think you've been a bit hasty with. In no particular order:
- You rightly say that we have a new manager who wants to impose a different style, similar to 12 months ago when the RS changed their manager. But therein the similarity ends. Brenda was given a fair wedge of cash to spend in all windows to date, and whilst I think the jury's out on some of their signings, Sturridge has surprised me, and Coutinho looks a steal - taken to the Prem like a duck to water. He was also immediately able to ship out players who didn't fit, either on loan or permanently, either straight away or in due course.

- RM is never going to enjoy that kind of luxury whilst Arkright is in charge. Instead he's going to largely have to make do with what he has, and use the meagre transfer funds at his disposal wisely. Unless there's a big sale. Sound familiar?

In terms of player assessments, agree with most of what you say, but think you're a tad harsh on:
- Jags - showed in some England games that he can pass. At Everton he needs someone to pass to, and in Gibson's absence the option is often the HOOOOOOOOOF!
- Kone - definitely not a tap-in merchant! He's got pace to burn, and whilst he has that, he will be a threat in many more situations than Jelavic will ever be.
- Deulofeu - why take him on loan if you're not going to give him game time? James Martin's description of him makes him sound like a slightly better and younger version of Drenthe. I think he will be useful, mainly as a sub, and possibly when we need to play more on the break - similar to Mirallas, but as we've already seen with our number 11, he blows hot and cold too.
- I also wouldn't write off Heitinga just yet. He may fit better into the RM style than most, and may yet enjoy some sort of Indian Summer with us.

Overall I think it'll be evolution rather than revolution. Finances dictate we can't hope to do much else, until this deluded billionaire that Bill dreams of turns up to pay grossly over the odds and take us forward.

Thought-provoking piece though!

Ross Edwards
22 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:22:15
Matt, when are you going to write up the piece with the answers to our questions to Ray Bigger?
Jon Withey
23 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:08:54
I expect it will take more than a preseason for the players to get it right.

I don't think it is much of a problem for Coleman, Barkley, Distin, Pienaar, Baines, Fellaini, Kone, Gibson - hence we have dominated possession.

Mirallas hasn't looked his old self at all, Jelavic still seems lost, Osman and Jags seem rusty. And with Jags, that goes for England too.

I'm especially disappointed with Mirallas, I thought he was going to light up this season.

My biggest disappointment is the lack of transfer funds for Martinez. If you get a new manager, you've got to give him a fighting chance to do his thing.

Andy Crooks
24 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:27:45
Good article,Ged. I wanted Moyes gone but frankly, I didn't want him replaced with someone who would deliver less. Is a new manager not a catalyst that provides improvement even in the short term?

We simply don't have the players or the money for the Roberto project and this transition bollocks could see us in the bottom half by Christmas.I support Roberto but would like some pragmatism.

Tony Draper
25 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:34:21
No matter who came in, this season was always going to be one of transition
For better, for worse but definately for different

The squad is not finished and due to dissipate sometime before xmas due to extreme old age
Wholesale changes are not (in my opinion) good for a club, teams need time to gel together. At least we are adding to a resilient squad, a few more and significant additions would be a great stride.

Having Barkley play 2 successive games (one in which he scored a screaming potential winner) is as good as a signing and a breath of hope

The premiership isn't won after 2 games, and neither is Roberto's fate decided by then

Keep yer powder dry Blues, we've had far worse starts to decent seasons during the reign of miseryarse and his silver allergy

Ged Simpson
26 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:35:12
To be honest - I just think I was in a bad mood when I posted that !
Phil Brown
27 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:53:37
Think that we need to fight to keep Fellani. He is our only high energy box to box player that wins the ball and passes early and forwards.Might only be five yards but it puts the oppopsition on the back foot. He is also more than useful in both boxes.

He operates much better when Gibson is behind him. That's the current weakness that Roberto is trying to address - cover for the defensive midfield slot.

We look and operate as a good outfit with Gibson, Fellani and Barkley in midfield and Kone will start to score us a few goals. Finish the season 8th-10th and then he can start to wheel and deal to get in some players more suited to his style.

Raymond Fox
28 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:36:10
Phil, your obviously anti RM, so where do you think we should finish, taking into account all the shenanigans with Fellaini and Baines? Serious answer only.

Your main objection appears to be because he was relegated with Wigan.

Wigan let their best players go to bigger clubs each year, and he had to replace them with players costing 2m with the odd 5m player, I wonder how Fergerson at Utd would have fared selling his 3 best players each year and replaced by inferior ones. Sounds familiar!
He made 15m on his transfers while there( I've checked ), shudder to think what deficit the Chelsea managers have run up in 4 years.

Steve Pugh
29 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:58:45
To look on the bright side, at least we're still unbeaten.....
Raymond Fox
30 Posted 26/08/2013 at 18:36:10
Phil, your obviously anti RM, so where do you think we should finish, taking into account all the shenanigans with Fellaini and Baines? Serious answer only.

Your main objection appears to be because he was relegated with Wigan.

Wigan let their best players go to bigger clubs each year, and he had to replace them with players costing 2m with the odd 5m player, I wonder how Fergerson at Utd would have fared selling his 3 best players each year and replaced by inferior ones. Sounds familiar!
He made 15m on his transfers while there( I've checked ), shudder to think what deficit the Chelsea managers have run up in 4 years.

Ray Robinson
31 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:13:58
Ged, agree with most of your points but a) Jags can play a passing game, believe it or not, if someone shows for him, Distin likewise. Kone hasn't been seen enough to form an opinion on. Jelavic is useless unless we adopt a "get the ball into the middle at first opportunity approach".

Our build up is painfully slow and no amount of possession, unless it hurts the opposition, is going to open up defences. So, in summary, until we inject some pace and incision into the team, I don't see that things are going to change very much. The first two games of the season could well have been played out under Moyes. The only difference that I have seen is Fellaini playing in a more withdrawn role, which quite honestly, might suit him in certain teams that play in a certain way, but it doesn't suit the way Everton normally play - which, given the lack of pace, involves getting the ball forward as directly as possible for Fellaini to knock the ball down for supporting players.

In summary, I don't expect Martinez to be able to change much until he gets the money to change the personnel. Perhaps Fellaini should be sacrificed (not literally!) in order to start the process of evolution. It's clear that with the existing team that we don't have the wherewithal to consistently hurt the opposition at pace from midfield.

Steve Cotton
32 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:04:54
Roberto has for the last 4 seasons or so proved a brilliant buyer of unknown south americans and souther europeans for cheap money who have been sold on for a good profit..
perhaps as Bill is offering F***all in the way of financial support then RM should sacrifice Fellaini and bring in some unknown talent like we know he can.
Brenda has been given millions in each window to improve his team and the 7 mill RM has spent so far looks like being Bills top end budget.. so if RM wants to take a season bedding in some unknowns then we should let him....
Mark Tanton
33 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:29:24
The reality seems to be that Martinez will be stuck with Moyes' side and unable to really shape the side he wants unless he sells to buy. There is no money, as usual - why we're surprised I don't know.
Colin Glassar
34 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:25:52
I think we will draw our first 4 games, yes against Chelsea, then we will beat WHU and our season will kick off. Once the transfer window closes, everyone will settle down and we will crack on. Next season we will have a completely different team, just wait.
Dave Charles
35 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:29:23
'But perhaps what we need to do most is give Martinez time and realise that at present we have Moyess team with his ethos deeply ingrained'

So true Ged. Martinez must get rid of the attitude of going to Old Trafford just 'hoping to get out alive'. He must also rid the club of this type of attitude that Moyes took with him to Anfield, Stamford Bridge and Highbury/Emirates. This is going to take more than two games.

As a supporter, I am saddened to hear Moyes speak as he does as it now proves what many thought of his 'Frankie Howard' tactics. I would love to know Bill Kenwright's views when hearing the man he supported spout such shite. He's insulted everything about MY club with his loser attitude.

Fuck you, Moyes, you have shown what you really are.

Colin Glassar
36 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:43:33
100% with you Dave Charles.
Mark Tanton
37 Posted 26/08/2013 at 19:47:13
If only we'd have the financial clout to go up against Hull City for Huddlestone...
Matt Traynor
38 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:03:24
Ross #117, I received them a couple of hours ago, haven't even opened the doc yet. Will get it edited and submitted tomorrow. I sent the questions in "as is" - I'm not sure legally he could answer a couple of them (although I've never known him to hold back)!
David Holroyd
39 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:23:02
Only played two games give the man a chance.Gibson is essential to Martinezes plans as he can take the ball off the defenders and pass long or short. I also would sell Fellaini as we need two more players.Untill we can buy players like dare I say Sturridge who are young and buy the KONE,s of this world we are going nowhere.
Fellaini for Welbeck try that Martinez see if the ginger prick likes that one.

Kieran Fitzgerald
40 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:07:53
I am really up and down at the moment and should really stay away from the keyboard when on ToffeeWeb until at least Tuesday or Wednesday. Your article has helped to give me a sense of perspective again Ged after Saturday's game. Whether I feel like saying it or not on a Saturday evening or Sunday morning after a game, I do agree that we will have to give Martnez time.

The first eleven from the last two games, with the exception of Barkley, is Moyes' team, with all that comes with it in terms of ethos and style. Expecting Martinez, or any manager with a different style and ethos, to suddenly chance things around is nonsense. But, then again try telling any football fan to be objective and not subjective.

Complaining after two games may allow me to vent my frustrations post match day, but I can't really complain until I see what use Martinez makes of squad players who never got a go under Moyes, and by extension what way he uses of this squad as a whole to try out his new style.

Take Barkley for example. I think that him getting two full games rather than ten minutes here and there has made him seem more like a proper squad player now rather than just a bit part player. Joking aside, and I know how this reads, I do think he is like a new player in ways. While not the be all and end all, it does seem to give our midfield another option. That is one positive that I can already give Martinez credit for. Who knows, Kone getting two or three proper competitive games in a row may show him to be a excellent option and something to also be positive about.

In terms of introducing more players, and developing from within, the cup game on Wednesday can't come quick enough. I think it could give Stones a chance to impress, as well as Oviedo and Lundstram. It will also give Martinez a proper chance to see what he has and what he can do with them. Another favourable draw, if we win on Wednesday, will give players not used to the starting eleven the chance to stake a claim, get used to playing first team games and also give both the manager and fans confidence.

Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury that Liverpool have in terms of being able to spend our way through a season of transition. It will mean promoting from within, or selling to buy. But, hey that's what we're used to. I will just have to be patient and give Martinez the time to do his take on this.

Steve Guy
41 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:38:44
Of course he will need time, and I predict a top ten finish this season at best with hopefully a better fist of a cup competition. Hopefully he won't need 11 years to achieve zilch.

What the OP is actually seems to be saying is that Moyes left us with an aging squad. Thanks for that. BTW have you noticed OFM now speaks of himself in the third perso ?. I thought only the reigning monarch did that, but it now obviously is used by hypocrites too.

RM's biggest problem is his Chairman. Interesting times ahead in the run up to the Transfer window closing as RM tries to stop BK lifting his skirts for Manure and his first love Davie M; who apparently he still speaks to all the time. Nice

Barry Rathbone
42 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:37:56
Agree with all that Ged and you can see why British coaches shy away from this sort of challenge.

Far easier producing basic hoofball and the cagey stuff to protect their multi million pound jobs.

Martinez deserves support just for showing some courage - massive job ahead.

Colin Glassar
43 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:51:28
I can see the likes of jags (maybe), Distin, Fellaini, Gibson, Ossie, Pienaar, Vic, Jelavic, Naismith, Hibbo not being at GP next season. Some due to age e.g. Distin, Pienaar, Hibbo and others just not being suitable to the style he wants to play. So yes, this is a transitional season.
James Martin
44 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:57:10
On the theme of transition, I know most on here are probably watching the man U match counting the number of long balls or whatever keeps them happy, but apparently we've bid for McCarthy...along with Newcastle.
Paul English
46 Posted 26/08/2013 at 20:58:36
Just watching a load of crap football, Never seen Van Persie tackle so much in midfield. Hee, hee, hee!
Colin Glassar
49 Posted 26/08/2013 at 21:58:31
I know you were Peter. So was I.
Patrick Murphy
50 Posted 26/08/2013 at 22:01:50
No James I watch as many games as possible with one exception, like on Sunday or whenever MU got to the other place, I won't be watching that. Does it say how much James? I wonder if we could swap Jelavic for Moses and Ba, do you think the Special one would agree to that?
Si Cooper
51 Posted 26/08/2013 at 21:41:32
"Is a new manager not a catalyst that provides improvement even in the short term?" - sorry, Andy (120), but I don't think that it is automatic. I would propose HK mk1 and SAF as slow burners who eventually produced great teams. Also, new managers tend to get the chance to really shake things up when they walk in the door, which obviously stirs everyone up as they are actually playing for their futures.

"Fellaini for Welbeck"?????? (David, 171). He may have scored two last week but Danny Welbeck's scoring record is actually a little poor isn't it? There are many promising young strikers I would have before him (as if we actually have a choice!). I suppose we all see players differently depending on our own personal bias.

On that subject, I am surprised that Peanuts seems to have slipped under the radar during our last two games. He may be working hard and ever-willing, but his final ball / decision making at the crucial moment has seemed woeful to me. He is not alone in that unfortunately and I think RM has been very unfortunate that the players haven't seriously threatened with a higher percentage of the opportunities that the possession and pressure has yielded.

Harold Matthews
52 Posted 26/08/2013 at 22:11:43
Live forum is open.
Victor Johnson
53 Posted 26/08/2013 at 22:34:32
I would say that the real question moving forward is how long it's going to take for the team to play possession football at a higher tempo. What we are seeing now resembles the very beginnings of a change in footballing philosophy/culture. Last season (and earlier) a higher tempo was very much evident, but this came at the expense of control, and at key moments it tended to go awry as players panicked and made poor decisions, or had been coached to simply get rid and retain the shape. Let's call this method "the English trying their best hand at the Spanish way". A tall order and ultimately futile if you don't have top players to execute it.

What RM is attempting to do is turn OFM's modus operandi inside out. Despite his respectful comments and diplomatic tone he is putting an 11-year-in-the-making footballing strategy to the sword.

Ergo, technique and control comes first (and at all costs), which can/will be honed as the tempo rises (al la Bayern Munich). Tempo will only increase as players reach a level of comfort with possession. By comfort the very least I mean is not falling over or twisting out of shape while trying to play simple, fluid football.

And that brings us back to personnel. Do we posses the right personnel to reach the requisite 'comfort on the ball', before upping the tempo to a devastatingly effective level? Ged has nailed that one in the OP.

What we are left with is a debate as to the merits of the possession first strategy (initial slow tempo so as to drive the 'possession' mantra so far down the players throats that they dare not lose the ball).

My guess is that it will take two seasons of RM indoctrination before we unleash hell on this league. And for that I can wait.

Keith Young
54 Posted 27/08/2013 at 00:27:02
0-0, nil nil, zero zero, nothing nothing. Ho ho ho !How long will the OT crowd and TV take to cotton on ? 11years, 11 months .....? OFM even with van Persie AND Rooney and SAF's team just doesn't inspire. I'm feeling better about RM ...
Eric Myles
55 Posted 27/08/2013 at 01:39:38
"Overall, I think the improvements we hope for from the new manager will take longer than we wish. We may have a season like Liverpool last year as a new manager settles in and brings in his own players at end of season."

The RS did better last year under Rodgers than under Clown Kenny.

Harold Matthews
56 Posted 27/08/2013 at 00:03:43
Victor. Your last two paragraphs call for Martinez to be completely ruthless which I'm not sure he is Not yet anyway.

Managers of rich clubs with strong squads find it much easier to drop popular players for all the obvious reasons.

There again, Jurgen Klinsmann had the same problem as Martinez when he took over the USA squad. The players couldn't adapt, they lost games and the fans started to turn against him.

This is all from memory and I can't remember the exact details but he put his foot down. Hard. He even dropped the star player Landon Donovan for lack of discipline and letting himself get out of condition.

He now rules with an iron fist and woe betide anyone who doesn't put in a full shift or gives the ball away needlessly.

They are now enjoying a long winning streak and are heading to Rio full of confidence.

None of these guys are 20 mil superstars. They are decent footballers who work for the team, don't give the ball away and follow Klinsmann's orders to the letter.

Maybe it'll take a few bad results to stir Martinez into action. Too many players in a blue shirt are aimlessly strolling. Compared to the verve and tenacity of Shane Long, our lads hardly broke sweat against West Brom and it was nothing to do with the new system.

Tony Draper
57 Posted 27/08/2013 at 06:25:29
If Roberto's new Everton was to be instilled overnight this would require wholesale changes firstly in thinking, then in practice, and most likely in personnel

The "shipping out and shipping in" approach isn't an option, we just don't have the cash flow

So, Roberto coaches who we do have to do what he envisages, and we accept (as he does) that this will not be instantaneous

We all want improvement but improvement frequently requires removal before replacement and upgrade, and in football that also includes practice to fine tune

Our players may be paid a "Kings Ransom", that doesn't mean that as soon as Roberto draws a few diagrams on the chalkboard that they'll ALL go out and tippy-tappy and shimmy past the next half dozen opponents scoring a bagfull each week !
And given that even if Roberto had 500M to immediately go out and buy his fantasy dream team they would still need to "bed in"

After 11 years of "stability", maybe we are a little "set in our ways", heaven knows how it must feel to have a new manager after 25 extremely successful years !
Bloody agonising, is my hope !

Jim Harrison
58 Posted 27/08/2013 at 05:43:15
Just a thought on transition....please don't shoot me for this........

Brendan Rodger has done what seems to be a good job at Liverpool in the year he has been in the job. He had a plan, an idea of how he wanted the team to play, spent a year getting the squad to play the way he wanted and now, from what I have seen, they are playing good football and have won the first two games of the season.

If Martinez is going to be successful he is going to need the same sort of time and support (He is never going to get the financial backing though).

In the first two games there has been a noticeable difference in the passing play, even if it is not producing better results.

Victor Johnson
59 Posted 27/08/2013 at 07:12:25
Harold, RM will turn out to be as ruthless as they come. As (i) he has only been in the job 2 minutes and (ii) we are relatively stable he needs to bide his time. Watch this space but my mortgage is on him chopping the team to bits if it doesn't adapt within a year. Remember, he IS Spanish; the real deal. He is not going to compromise his values and give up the ghost to accommodate non-performers. That was OFM's modus operandi and ultimately achilles heel- he couldn't/wouldn't drop his "true' favourites. We all saw it.
Now, look at how Barkley has suddenly (though not accidentally) become a key player, a lynchpin in my opinion. He basically represents the RM way. Under the previous regime this would never have happened. Now if that isn't being ruthless I don't know what is. This club is changing under RM.
Steve Cotton
60 Posted 27/08/2013 at 08:06:21
Jim you hit the nail on the head there, yes it has taken Brenda a year but do you think he could have done it with no money??

his two outstanding players now are Sturridge and Coutinho, 20 mill for the 2, lets see what RM could do with the same cash

so I agree with you lets give him time and hopefully some backing...

Raymond Fox
61 Posted 27/08/2013 at 08:23:43
I cant add much to the excellent posts in this thread, I agree with a big % of them.

If our manager had the money to spend that Rodgers has, our transition would be much quicker and have a greater chance of success.
He's attempting the impossible to change Moyes team into a different animal, especially with some of the shall we say mature players.
With this present ownership the clubs best path to take, is an all out attempt to produce our own players through the youth system.
I'm sure RM will try to do that the Spanish way, where control of the ball is a prerequisite before anything else.
Ok, this is not an original idea, but I'm talking of at least doubling the resources available to the youth system and bringing in 1 or 2 foreign coaches.
Obviously this will only pay off some time in the future with the younger kids, but increasing the emphasis on skill for the more mature youths can only be for the good for Everton in the short term.

Tony J Williams
63 Posted 27/08/2013 at 12:47:36
Not too sure about the praise of Branda, I have watched both their games and wasn't impressed. They have played two cack teams and won 1-0 in both. The first should have been 1-1 and the second, once again they dropped deep and were lucky to hold on to the lead....... sound familiar?

Two games, six points and now people are starting to say Brenda's patience (not to forget his splurging of loads of dosh) has come to fruition. Wait until they play a decent side and Sturridge or Coatman gets injured.

Jim Harrison
64 Posted 27/08/2013 at 13:03:10
Tony, praise would be a bit far, but acknowledgement that his club have allowed him a fallow year to let him get his squad playing the way he wants. They are not tearing teams apart but have beaten two tricky opponents that last year they would have probably drawn with. Credit to his bosses, even if they are red! They have also backed him financially, and he has bought quite well with the money. He has also moved on some expensive dead wood in Carroll and Downing. If by this time next year RM has got the team playing his intended way properly and revitalised the squad I will be very happy
Drew Shortis
65 Posted 27/08/2013 at 21:33:46
A realistic assessment of the current situation Ged. Personally I'm willing to keep the faith with Martinez, even if it means a mid table finish this season. It will take time for him to get the team playing his system effectively and with little money to spend it will take time for him to build his own squad, a squad who are comfortable with his style.

I like the way he has tried, very successfully so far, to keep the squad together and hasn't come in and made sweeping changes that could upset the solid team Moyes put together. He has had little choice to stick with players like Osman as there is little money to replace them with. He has suffered the usual injury to Gibson that has highlighted our weakness in that area. On the other hand he has shown great faith in Barkley and within two matches helped him into the England squad. Mirallas can, and will, improve and I expect Kone to take over the lone striker role from Jelavic soon.

I have been impressed with some aspects of our game, but there is clearly improvements needed, both from the players and from Roberto himself. I hope he learns that only sending three up for corners when we really need a goal at home is not the way to go. I know it's early days but the meltdown of our defence that many feared has not materialized. It is the attacking side of his tactics that many were looking forward to seeing that has been lacking. We need to get more players in the box when attacking, especially when our two fullbacks are capable of providing such excellent service.

Obviously the midfield needs strengthening. I do see Fellaini as a dominant defensive midfielder, but when required we need the players to take over that role so he can be pushed further up the pitch, much like Man City do with Yaya Toure. I hope for one or two additions to the midfield by the deadline, even if they are only loans, so that we can be more flexible with Fellaini and Barkley and so that we don't have to play Osman in such a deep role.

I for one still have faith in our new manager, but I'm realistic enough to realise it may take some time before he has us running like a well oiled machine.

Mark Stone
66 Posted 28/08/2013 at 17:59:09
Ray, #137 my minimum expectation, based on what I have become unaccustomed to over the past decade, is a top 7 finish. A good season would be one in which we qualify for Europe. This squad has proven it has the quality to do just that.
Jack Cross
67 Posted 30/08/2013 at 03:31:02
Any idea how much RM spent on players when he was at Wigan?

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