If You Know your History!

Don't forget Moyes spoke to SAF about the Man Utd job around Christmas time so during the January transfer window he knew he was joining Man Utd.

My guess is that Moyes tipped Kenwright off that he was joining Man Utd in January. So, for the January transfer window, both Moyes and probably Kenwright knew what was coming.

Thinking about it like that, it's no surprise Everton didn't spend big.

Personally, I'm glad Moyes didn't spend big in January knowing he was quitting the job in a few months.

Steve, if we look back in history, or certainly the history of the Club under the management of Moyes there has been a catalogue of occasions when the board have failed to back the manager and strengthen the squad. The summer before the Champions league qualifier against Villareal was probably worse than the last January transfer window. Our fortunes will not improve until Everton have been rid of the incompetent major shareholders and directors who currently masquerade as custodians of our great Club.

A valid point Steve, and one I and others have been making since February 1 2013 - although there are plenty on here who would argue against it.

A number of posters who were against this regime, firmly believing it to not have the best interests of the club at heart, no longer post on the site anymore. I'm not even sure they still read it. On another thread, someone posts an article about our debt position, but asks that any criticism of the board is left out of the debate! A bit like trying to talk about the state of the economy, but no blame being apportioned to bankers or politicians...

Everyone is lauding the new TV deal as being the saving of Everton. It isn't. It's much worse than that. We've lost Christ-knows how much progress and opportunity in the past, instead paying out a lot of money in interest and finance charges. Yes, we operate at a higher level of wages than most clubs outside of the top 6, but other clubs are not only out-spending us in the transfer market, but will soon overtake us in terms of commercial and matchday revenue (having much better sponsorship deals linked to a stadium able to deliver better revenue, even with a lower capacity).

This new TV deal has given them the confidence to raise their bar, with the belief that should the disaster of relegation happen, they have the right executive team in place to manage that situation without jeapoardising the long term future of the club. More than one of these clubs has been in administration, and in one case, been close to liquidation.

How confident do you feel about Everton's off-field team?

Moyes, imo, deflected any blame and subsequent judgement, of Kenwright's awful reign, by simply being adequate. Those days are now gone. What Moyes successfully delayed, is now coming home to roost, and shit results aside, I can't fuckin' wait.

I hope RM does well. I like the guy and appreciate the way he wants us to play the game. I do think though, possessing more integrity in his left bollock than "Mr Integrity" ever did, he'll walk as soon as our gobshite chairman shows his true colours.

Heavens above !
Moyes wasn't "adequate" he was even at his height only barely complacent !
The "steady Eddie" of the premiership, insanely overpaid by a board of tightwads simply because it was cheaper to keep him and his pathetically unambitious philosophies

Simplest value judgement:
mufc in Champions League Final
Martinez or Moyes as manager ?

So far, talking to MANY mufc fans and multiple fans of all PL clubs, every single one has instantaneously chosen Martinez to manage as a winner

NOT one would choose "the bottler"

I believe Moyes will succeed at Man Utd. It would be hard not to. I, however, think he as a person has failed and acted in a spiteful undignified manner and im glad I did not applaud him. As for our chairman and board I do hope they read this. Disgraceful — and your revisionists that come on here can go with them.

I know what your saying Matt, people like Colin Fitz haven't posted for months and for me that is a worrying sign. The vast majority of Evertonians I know / meet have a general apathy towards our plight and although they would acknowledge Kenwright's failings and appalling track record accept that we are stuck with him. Everything about Everton has a sense of nostalgia, absolutely no plan moving forward.

Moyes was adequate enough to get Kenwright clapped (fuckin' clapped!). He was adequate enough to turn the majority of the match going fanbase to turn on the BU (some of whom are now calling for them).

We've got the club we deserve.

Carl #026, I think everyone on here who wanted Moyes to go at some point during his 11 year tenure was a fan of his. Maybe it was the length of time, maybe it was the way he covered up for BK in exchange for a ludicrously generous salary, but I don't think I'm stretching when I say every one of us who cheered his departure at one stage thought he was the best thing since sliced bread.

The thing was he lost people at different times. Everyone has their "moment" when they thought, "this guy thinks he's too good for us". I started wavering after the Tottenham home game when he made a defensive substitution at the end of the game at 1-1 and we lost. He openly questioned the fans after that. But the clincher was the 0-3 at Anfield 2 seasons ago, when he rested half a team before the replay at Sunderland - and then claimed he should've rested more. I realised that depsite his initial utterances (Peoples' Club) he really didn't and was never going to "get" us.

Obviously he's coveted that job for a long time, and as much as we're left feeling that his conservatism was possibly so as not to risk his CV, I also have to admire him for taking what I think is an impossible job. I actually think his length of tenure at Everton will be his undoing - he believes his own press.

I hope he fails - not because he left us for them, but because whoever manages them I wish the sort of record they had for the 2 decades before Fergie. The first Everton manager I properly remember was Gordon Lee. I can clearly recall the protests in the early 80s against Howard Kendall - who shortly was to deliver an FA Cup, 2 League titles and a Cup Winners' Cup over the next 4 years - knowledgable fans? Perhaps not in that case, but passionate.

I feel sometimes that because of his longevity, Moyes (and BK) is all a lot of fans here know, which would in part explain the mass hysteria on some threads when it dawned on people he was actually off. I wish they'd talk to parents/grandparents who could tell them a bit more about what it was like.

I wish they'd realise that at the time of the dawn of the Premier League we were one of the big 5 - one of the main protaganists for the breakaway. I know he led the buy-out of the club in 1999, but people forget he was on the board 10 years before that - right at the time the discussions for the breakaway were going ahead.

I wonder what vision he had then?

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

The ginger judas had prior information well before Xmas and the January window

Why was he stalling upon a fresh and improved contract for 18 months ?
(It was in fact offered at the 2 year countdown)

Try these ?
18 months before SAF's "sudden retirement" SAF had an adverse health report (SAF, Moyes and Mourinho ball refer to this, SAF OPENLY stated that based upon this that he would retire should the advice he were to receive indicate deterioration) (for a man in his early 70's in a high profile profession, was the likelihood of a reduction of pressure likely ? Realistcally was it likely ?)
Man City win the PL, literally in the death seconds of 2011-2012 season
(Read the last 2 statements together again !)
Denied the "retire in glory" moment in 2011-20212 SAF continues AND concludes victoriously in 2013

Evertons manager offered a new contract for at least 2 years continually stalls
"can be signed in 10 minutes!"
"Talk with the Chairman every day"
"Depending upon PL finish"
"Looking for CL Qualification"

Ever increasingly higher expectation for the signature
Not one fresh body added to the Everton squad to add impetus
A bright young defender added when the team NEEDED a goalscorer

The moment that mufc clinched the PL SAF announced his retirement
Then mufc were accorded permission to begin discussions with dm
within 4 days dm, still under contract to Everton FC was announced mufc manager
Everton FC received zero compensation for the loss of their manager (a known friend of SAF)
SAF and Jose Mourinho openly disclose their knowledge of SAF's health and the possibility of his retirement at least 6 months earlier

Everton FC Chairman states that ex-manager dm has given a verbal agreement that mufc will not look to sign Everton players

mufc manager dm offers Everton coaching staff positions at mufc

mufc manager dm openly states in mufc footage that two Everton players would benefit by leaving Everton to play for mufc (under a manager who has not won a trophy, whilst Everton FC manager Roberto Martinez is the most recent manager to win the FA Cup)

During 11 years tenure at Everton FC dm record against Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, is the worst of the managers of all the above clubs in all competitions combined

In his time as Everton manager dm stated and re-iterated that it was improper for that manager of a PL club to discuss the future of players under contract at other clubs
As manager of mufc, dm openly stated that the careers of Leighton Baines and Marouanne Felaini would both benefit by joining mufc, despite the highlight of dm's career being as a player
Celtic: Scottish Premier Division 1981-1982

Bristol City: Associate Members Cup 1986
Preston North End: Football League Division 3 1995-1996
Manager:
Preston North End:
Football League Second Division 1999–2000

Manchester United FA Community Shield: 2013

Everton FC (15th March 2002 - 30 June 2013) Utterly FUCK all !

Beggars belief doesn't it Tony, and the man had a job for life at Everton whilst Kenwright is at the helm.

I think if Utd had won the league that year Tony rather than City, Fergie would have retired after that season.

It's just my opinion.

Do you remember Tony the admiration for the Bundesliga Moyes suddenly developed in March/April time?

I think Fergie has more than a hip issue.I think there has been another more serious issue and that he was advised to retire, so he probably would have packed in if he won the league rather than City in 2011/12, but that's what I think.

Technically Tony, Moyes shouldn't have that Community Shield. He didn't contribute to Utd winning the PL, so why should he have that?

I'd also say another pivotal moment that no one gave a damn about at the time on here was the meetings with Giggs and Fergie a few days before the last match of the season against Chelsea, as well as accepting a month's wages for nothing.

It really does Peter

One problem removed
Now as BlueBloods we need to oust "babytears and the shortpockets"

This will neither be easy nor painless nor instant
But
Sir John & William Ralph would just roll up their sleeves
We owe them that

"........those who understand........"

To get back to the point, the failure to provide resources in January was a huge indicator of our lack of ambition. We had played decent stuff but had started to lose a bit of form and we also had a few injuries. One or two signings at that point would have been a real boost. It could have really energised us.

Given the scenario of a team in fourth position fighting hard for CL qualification, this was surely only a modest risk for the board. We only needed to retain our position. Surely now was the time to take the plunge. It was just very dissapointing.

Summer arrives and the gap between the 'have's and us is as obvious as ever.

Really what chance does any Everton manager have?

Ross, if Zabaleta's late late late effort hadn't found "the onion bag" then I'm utterly certain that SAF would have retired in glory and that the "knife wielding gunfighter" would have snivelled away 12 months sooner

My relationship with dm covers 3 phases:

New:
Loved the bravado "If this great club is to stay where we belong then we need 3 pts, we may as well go for it !"
"Everton IS the peoples Club on Merseyside !" (Later realised that these are in fact the words of Graeme Sounness, he's NEVER retracted these words. Just listen to him next time he "experts" on an Everton game. NEVER runs us down, always talks about us with genuine even handedness. I HATED him as a player, but as a pundit ? FFS I reckon just like Shankly he's a Blue)

Middle:
"Never speak to a player under contract to another club"
"knife to a gunfight"
"James (McFadden) can certainly do a job for us, he's just been unlucky with injuries at the wrong times"

Latter:
"The Chairman and I have an excellent relationship, we talk most days. We'll sort out the contract after the season is over, we have a great relationship" (didn't say which Chairman though.....)

Endgame:
"Gentlemans agreement"

mufc:
"People who know mufc"
"best interest of the players"

Xmas:
"After 20 odd years ..........."
"A shade unfortunate , referees decisions were crucial.....!"
"Gillingham are a family club with massive potential !"

Matt Traynor 049
I keep re-reading your posting and there is more and more and more truth in it, it's bloody great stuff mate

You relate your own personal time when you decided "that's enough"

Oddly, I had a few. But I hate to quit and I forgave. But Wembley after we had lfc on bended knee was my "Road to Domestos" with the ginger deceiver !

I recall looking back down the coach at those BlueBloods their proud faces, and I did not see disappointment or defeat in one.
I saw anger and betrayal, because we knew we were better and so did "the reds" (I never refer to our nearest as shite, I have 96 reasons not to) Moyes failed us that day. Failed us.

Joe Royle could have sent Big Dunc out alone on a zimmer frame and won that match !
I hated Moyes for that

Billy Bingham deserved and would have earned us a victory

Harry Catterick FFS Harry would have played himself complete with broken collarbone (one of me Dad's favourite Everton tales)

Howard Kendall, the ref would have offered the reds the chance to declare at half time

bottler
I swear he cashed in a mint from Paddy Power !

The oddest thing that day coming home from Wembley was that we knew he didn't have "The right Stuff", our players did, bottler didn't

My Owl Feller is a real gentle soul and rarely has a bad word for anyone, he doesn't like "talking ill of folk". He's 80'odd now and I asked him, "D'you think dm will succeed at manu Dad ?"
"Hmmm not much son, depends how long his boss lasts"
"Will he win the PL Dad ?"
"He might, but can't see him winning the (FA) Cup or the league cup"
"How about the Champions League then ?"
"No ! No chance!"

I agree with the original post. The lack of investment in January was criminal considering our league position. Top four was within touching distance (surely for the very last time under BK). We could have given it a real go safe in the knowledge that if it didn't go to plan we could sell a couple of our players for $40m in the summer.

The fact that Moyes already knew he would be moving to Utd leaves me feeling that we have been well and truely stitched up here, he wasn't even interested in taking us to the next level, and BK was more than happy to go along with it because he is so shite in business that he doesn't even understand basic economic principles such as "speculate to accumulate".

Tony Draper:

You say: "I never refer to our nearest as shite, I have 96 reasons not to..."

Can I just say, as an "outsider" and one who has followed the Club for a mere 7 years, that line alone epitomizes the class and dignity of Everton Football Club.

Well said sir.

Thanks Jamie C @406

Never mind just 7 years, because
Evertonians are born not manufactured

Gayest thread ever.

Transfer Deadline Day - BK's opportunity to put right what the excellent article by Steve felt was the beginning of the downward spiral.

This is his opportunity to back RM and show EFC he is a true custodian of the club I have followed and embraced for almost 50 years.

I remember John Moores pride in the fact we were one of the big clubs, the millionaires club, once labelled.

When I think back to his chairmanship and compare it to today's and the opportunities Mr. Moores would have successfully taken for this club, I could genuinely weep.

New manager; new TDD; new BK?

I already know the answer to that but being a true blue - I live forever in hope.

The present trend towards branding Moyes as no more than 'adequate' defies history and is no more than churlishness on the part of people who should know better.

True, his pragmatism bored the arse off me at times but the guy was doing what he had to do. He arrested the downward spiral we were on at the time of his arrival and elevated us on a fairly regular basis to be 'the best of the rest'.

As Dick Brady says in his opening response to this post,the OT deal had already been done when last winter's window opened and I presume BK very conveniently didn't want to clutter up the pay roll with signings his successor might not fancy!

I have never been a Moyes apologist but I can well understand why he would wish to take the top job in the land. Would any of us, notwithstanding our love for the Club, seriously consider it an honour to work for Bullshit Billy? I ask you? And, anyway, even the money was better!

But whatever inquest we wish to hold into the last few months, the truth is now, by any standards, we are in deep shit.....and shit which will only get deeper as the combined inadequasies of Kenwright and Martinez begin to show us slipping back to the days of Walter Smith......but at least we shall go down passing!

Nick Entwitle (459) - "Gayest thread ever".

Incredible - this from someone who spent the last 11 years with his head stuck up David Moyes' anus.

(like being called 'a posh twat' by Lord Snooty).

Phil Walling (498) - The level of hysterical, nonsensical shite in your last paragraph makes me wonder has any football manager (ever!) been so ludicrously judged and condemned after just 4 games (specially as he hasn't lost any of them).

You talk about the inadequacies of Martinez?

Yes he was so inadequate, he took his two-bob Wigan side to Wembley and won the FA Cup against Man City and their billions - a lot more adequate than bottler Davie's attempt in a similar situation (and certainly more adequate than your inadequate attempt to spell 'inadequasies' - dolt!)

Still the gayest thread ever.

Steve, CL qualification would raise expectation, as it is people are comfortable with the year on year trophyless, but ultimately respectable, 8th ish record.

Bill and co aren't stupid it's the thin end of the wedge.

Top 4 and winning stuff opens a can of worms about buying better players.

Questions about why they haven't would upset the comfy apple cart.

I vehemently disagree but acknowledge Moyes would be merrily drifting along the "same old, same old" route at GP if fergie hadn't demanded his arse for the utd job.

Evertonians are an exact mirror of the board - unadventurous, conservative and fear-filled - it ain't the board that needs to up it's game.

If you don't believe me look at Ken Buckleys report suggesting match goers reaction to the infant days of the RM foundation building - effectively RM out by xmas if he doesn't shape up.

I'm sure offering Phil Neville 3.5 million to get us right back to the good ole' days would have us back on track - can't wait.

Eugene,you sound such a self-opinionated twat at times. Your love of Matrinez rivals that of Nick Entwistle and Doddy of Moyes for whom you hadn't a good word to say.

Of course,you have every right to express your view but why,oh why,do you have to come over in such a superior patronising way on a message board that is homebase for fellow Evertonians.

PS. Apologies for any mis-spellings -hardly criminal but then not quite deserving of your 'dolt' verdict but I bow to your superior keystroke accuracy if not your tolerance of other's views.

Barry @#661.

Agree some Evertonians seem to be resigned to mediocre expectations as far as Everton ever regaining its former glory is concerned.

I hate to say it but.. we could certainly learn from the actions of Liverpool fans when their expectations were not met by their former owners regarding investment and success.

I for one will keep on plugging away in my own way.

Recently sent a letter to the board challenging them to PROPORTIONATELY match my recent personal financial investment in Everton FC.

Nearly $10,000 in air fares, accommodation, curry and beer money etc. for myself and two sons travelling from the U.S.A just to see the FA Cup semi-final debacle v Liverpool and two recent spring fixtures v Wigan in the Cup, followed by the Man City win.

I know it will fall on deaf ears but I plan on lobbying at every opportunity.

COYBs

Steve, Everton are not a brand. They do not have take over potential. And even if they were, how many clubs taken over by rich (but not oil rich) have done anything to where we would like our club?

If they were to be taken over then to keep up with the CL clubs with expenditure you have to make up the CL earnings just to pull level on income... then you've got to find the rest to get close in the market.

Another problem is that 6 into 4 doesn't go. This is why (in my none professional opinion) clubs in France and Spain are being taken over by oiled up sugar daddies.

People can have a go at me for 100% behind Moyes but he has been the only manager at any club outside the money to get close, let alone qualify, since George Burley with Ipswich all those years ago.

Obviously any take over is better than none at all, but where's the attraction in Everton? Maybe the new sky deal clearing the debt is a good start.

Nick,

Moyes has gone of his own volition, whether one rated him or not.

We have to move on.

I've challenged the current board to step up.

If they can't then I want a takeover. If we want to get back to where many Evertonians want us to be... at the top!

If we sit back and accept all the negatives that may or may not happen in the event of a takeover, then so be it.

I for one am prepared to risk a negative outcome, rather than settle for Everton as an average, hard working, also ran club.

I can't predict the outcome, but I do believe accepting the status quo is getting us nowhere.

I'm just stating my point of view and desire.

The point on Moyes is that he was a rarity in what he was able to do. And Martinez and the like will not be able to equal that record.

The board won't 'step up', however you define that. We know their MO and it isn't squad investment.

They should have gone for Hiddink and the like, and they got Wigan's genius.

A take over won't be a negative outcome as such, as we've seen with Moyes the right manager is what is required with the new backing.

Any new chairman would hopefully trade up for a better manager.

Good job we have all moved on..........

Seriously, who gives a toss? If he was such a shite manager why do you care? If he is as mediocre as you say no club would have payed compensation for him. Cant we just get over it and worry about what the new guys does?

Moyes has gone and not before time. He did a lot of good things without hitting the heights for various reasons one of which was his own lack of insight.
He had some excellent players but did not use them the right way and used a rigid plan that had no plan 'B' when it went wrong.
It would have carried on until Doomsday if Manure hadn't stepped in.
The changes have now been made and it is a new era that we all hope will be far better than the last one.
After yesterday it's obvious that certain players were pencilled in a while ago and the rest were just pure fan and media wild speculation.
I wonder though about some players who were not moved on who just don't seem to figure in any plans such as Velios and Gueye?

Phil Walling - "Eugene,you sound such a self-opinionated twat at times. Your love of Matrinez rivals that of Nick Entwistle and Doddy of Moyes for whom you hadn't a good word to say"

Who on earth is Matrinez? (Jesus some people BEG for it)

Firstly I am not in the least bit interested in what you (or anyone else) thinks about how I 'sound' - this is not (despite what some seem to think) facebook.

To be honest, as soon as I hear 'that's not fair blah' all I think is "he's trying get away from the point"

Oh and as for 'Not having a good word to say' about Moyes, complete and utter invented shite and if you want, I'll be happy to copy and paste pieces I've posted praising him (seriously, just give me the word and I'll happily PROVE you wrong - again).

Getting back to the ACTUAL CONTENT - I pulled you up on..

"By any standards we are in deep shit.....and shit which will only get deeper as the combined inadequasies of Kenwright and Martinez begin to show us slipping back to the days of Walter Smith......but at least we shall go down passing!"

Sarcastic, snotty, fact-free - having a dig at an Everton manager who has been in charge for FOUR matches, then pathetically trying to compare (my) support for him as some kind of 'love'.

And then you have the gall to whine about ME not showing 'tolerance'.

Sorry but I have NO reason to change my mind about what I wrote or how I wrote it

Couple more things.

1) Of COURSE I'm 'self' opinionated - I'm hardly likely to be giving Yogi fucking Bear's opinions on the matter.

2) All that 'fellow Evertonians' stuff cuts NO ice with me - it was 'fellow Evertonians' who voted for Kirkby and it is 'fellow Evertonians' who continue to applaud Bill and buy his brand of dishonest bollocks.

Re: The OPs post. The whole season was a microsm of TGTs reign. Me and the auld fella agreed early in the piece that, although playing well, we were bleeding too many points. We were drawing games we ought to have won; losing games we ought to have drawn. It was going to cost us in the end....and it did.
Bearing in mind that events were happening behind the scenes that we - Joe Public who pays the players and managers wages - weren't privy to, January was an odd time. TGT made some bullshit up as to why he couldnt sign a new deal at the time. The Leroy Fer saga was classic BS Billy. Our thin squad had actually done a reverse Moyes - starting well and then fading fast. Boxing day was a home defeat to Chelsea - first of the league campaign - where we'd played well but still gone down. Players were starting to look tired and jaded; reinforcements were definitely required.
Of course, the cavalry never came and we fell short. I actually don't believe that Billy Liar and the board actually knew TGT was leaving. I think they strongly suspected his departure but didn't know for sure. I think they chose not to put their hands in their pockets because of what they perceived as a "false" league position. We were in a CL spot but still had to go to the Emirates, Old Trafford, White Hart Lane and the Tin Mine...and we all know how well Moyes Everton had fared at those venues.
Maybe the board were right; maybe it was a self fufilling prophecy. Anyway, we fell short again.

When was your moment that Moyes Jumped The Shark?
For many it was THAT semi final. For others the Wigan quarter final. For me though it had to be that loss to Norwich. Chasing Europe; playing a team desperately out of form. Dominating the game; leading with under ten minutes to go. And then to leave with nothing; not even a point!
The Wigan game was a fortnight or so later - and it was a disaster, But for me it was confirmation of what I already thought. Moyes was a goner. I was disappointed we'd been routed at home by relegation fodder, with a shot at Wembley on the line. But I wasn't shocked. The Norwich debacle had immunised me to disappointment,
History shows a rousing performance against Citeh - Moyes trademark! - followed. But it was too little too late. In the games that mattered we got battered. That was always the case under Moyes; it was always going to be the case under Moyes. Eleven years and in so many ways we'd gone nowhere.
Time for a change; the only surprise it was Moyes dumping us.

My moments of Moyes realisation were two fold.

First was the pathetic showing at Anfield when we lost 3-0. A severely weakened team when the 'bigger' game was Home to Sunderland in the Cup? WTF? We all knew that the game at Anfield was the difficult one and he handed them the initiative on a plate. The telling irony was that despite eventually getting past Sunderland it only pitted us against LFC again who went into the match at Wembley not fearing us after the 3-0 and despite going behind had the confidence to keep at us until we inevitably buckled.

After that, I was pleasantly surprised at the start last season and I suppose gave him another chance. I blamed the Board for not backing him and still believe had they done so properly in January he may not have left as we would have been in the Champions league ourselves. We acquitted ourselves well in the two big games in North London in April and came to the Anfield derby needing a win to have any chance of Europe in any shape at all. What did we do ? Sat back and played for a draw! Only shot on target was a mis-hit by Anichebe in the last minute. Liverpool ran out of ideas at the hour mark, the game was literally there for the taking and yet every time our players got the ball in their half their immediate reaction was to look backwards, not forwards.

Three days later he was his way to Manure. The penny only totally dropped at the end for me. However, in 2002 we would have taken top six or seven eight seasons in a row all day long. He wasn't all bad. The Board are the real problem and maybe he eventually was just going through the motions till something better came along.

Conclusion for me : Moyes default position is defensive and this is a bad match for Manure so either he needs to change or it'll end in tears, but more importantly for us is that this Board are an utter joke and are doing nothing to take the club forward. We are just treading water at best.