I think it was Martinez who said recently that you dont need money to get a winning football team, it just takes longer, though money can speed it up.

I, like thousands of other Evertonians, constantly dream that shortly we will enter the Kingdom of God or its other name is the Champions League. Roberto has virtually promised it to us didnt he? And, to be fair to him, hes having a right good go this year a year earlier at least than I imagined when he joined us.

Looking at the finances roughly of our major competitors and the way they are striding ahead makes me think that another year or two will be too late, the gap is huge now and only going to get bigger. I have harped on elsewhere about the differences between the teams being the 30-40M goalscorers, and creative midfielders. Its the 30-40M or for some 80-90M a season on quality players where we just cant compete.

If you look and, like I said, roughly (it’s difficult getting up to date, comparable data) what our competitors are doing in the 3 major areas of Matchday Revenue, TV income and Commercial Income and look at little but well loved Everton its just mind blowing (all in M):

                   Matchday        TV      Commercial         Total
Manchester Utd        109         119          103             341
Manchester City        30          83          158             271
Arsenal                93          87           46             226
Chelsea                67         101           57             225
Liverpool              41          63           77             183
Spurs                  43          53           37             133
Everton                22          53           12              86

*** Champions League brought in about 30M - 45M in TV income in 2012-13 and after the BT deal for exclusive rights from 2015, its likely to go up by about 10M - 15M per season per club.

We know we just cant generate Commercial income until we are more successful ie, Champions League and we know The Kingdom of God if we can reach it, will in time bring us hopefully another 50Mper year to compete, and even more Commercially one day. Our current ground will never ever be able to generate anything significant, viz a viz the huge grounds of Man Utd and Arsenal and also the London pricing.

I do believe we have a mountain to climb, assuming at best 4th place for us in the Premier League, then you would need to play in the 3rd Qualifying Round for the Champions League held in late July/early August, just 2 weeks after World Cup has finished. You need to win your Qualifying match (includes the likes of Celtic, Basel, Anderlecht, normally 2 Turkish clubs and 1 Spanish team hopefully not Villarreal!), before you enter the income-generating Group Stages.

Can we do it on a shoestring?

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Reader Comments (69)

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Bobby Thomas
1 Posted 03/02/2014 at 01:14:17
Being perfectly honest, if we got in and got into the main stages, I ccould only see us struggling, as we have no experience in the tournament and we arent used to playing twice a week.

Its why I think the Europa League is a good tournment to be in. It conditions the club and the players to European football. I know the drawbacks of the tournament, but I think we should try to be in Europe as much as we can.

Regarding the Champions League the hard part is finishing in the top 4 when you are in it. Spurs couldnt do it.

Regular Champions League football has to be the aim, its what we all want. But the club isn't set up for it. Theres is no way we would finish in the top 4 again if we were in it. We don't even have the squad to get through a league season.

Can you imagine this board building the squad up with the necessary outlay in transfers and the consequent wage bill increase?


Chris James
2 Posted 03/02/2014 at 01:10:51
Great post, even if the formatting didn't quite work (tried a diff version below)

Match TV Comm Total
Manchester Utd 109 119 103 341
Manchester City 30 83 158 271
Arsenal 93 87 46 226
Chelsea 67 101 57 225
Liverpool 41 63 77 183
Spurs 43 53 37 133
Everton 22 53 12 86

Like you say, the numbers are staggering (do you have some others for contrast? Newcastle, Villa, Sunderland).

On the positive side for Martinez, Moyes and our players (and maybe even BK to a point) they do highlight what a great job is being done on the pitch to even be in the running when the odds are stacked against us.

On the flip side it shows just how much work needs to be done on the commercial side and how important a new stadium is in our ongoing plans.

Patrick Murphy
3 Posted 03/02/2014 at 01:23:21
If we could utilise the effort and commitment shown by the highly successful Everton in the Community people for the commercial side of the club we might be able to do something about the commercial disparity between Everton and those clubs in the table.

However, I also think in the present economic climate it would be impossible to raise ticket prices significantly and we cannot fill many more seats as we look like we will have a decent average attendance this season - with games still to come against United, City and Arsenal which should be full-houses. Of all the clubs that need a commercial partner we are the ones that would benefit the most but as usual those that have the most tend to receive the most in free-gifts and corporate sponsorship.

As usual we rely on the players and the managerial acumen of the football staff to keep us in and around the money clubs and its so frustrating knowing that half the amount that Man U spent this season if it had been spent on the correct players could have had us all dreaming about even higher places in the PL. But we are Everton and we'll just have to go about our business and hope for the best, unless something dramatic happens

David Ellis
4 Posted 03/02/2014 at 03:03:42
Yes we have been over achieving and long may it continue.

Fortunately TV money is now so huge that if we do break in the lower matchday revenue that we have (because of the ground and Liverpool pricing vs London) will become less of an issue as it becomes an ever smaller proportion of revenue.

Finishing 4th does not get us in to the group stages though - just the chance to do so. If we get the chance we must take it, and thankfully we are much better equiped this time than 10 years ago.

Ciaran Duff
5 Posted 03/02/2014 at 04:17:42
Interesting title and it has crossed my mind that when Jesus said "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God/Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled etc" he could well have been referring to Everton supporters!

The main thing that strikes me from the above figures is what a joke all this Financial Fair Play stuff is. As it stands, Man City/Chelsea etc can have 2 World Class squads on their books, snap up any decent looking prospect etc. How can the rest of the league compete with that?
RM and the club have done a fantastic job so far this season but every time we get near the Top 4 (even under Moyes) the big boys just throw more money around and we slip back again.

Mike Corcoran
6 Posted 03/02/2014 at 08:40:27
If we were to get Champions League would FFP rule us out of strengthening adequately anyway? Like money would ever be available to do so!
Peter Laing
7 Posted 03/02/2014 at 10:53:41
The Deloite analysis of football finances recently published indicate that we are massively under performing in two core areas: Matchday Revenue and Commercial Revenue...

Over to the Board of Directors.

Steve Guy
8 Posted 03/02/2014 at 12:17:30
Whilst in football terms the Champions League may be the promised land, there is nothing God-like about it. Driven by greed and the egos of those that run it, it is quite the opposite of God-like. Kingdom of Mammon more like.
Kieran Fitzgerald
9 Posted 03/02/2014 at 12:51:44
You may say that we would struggle to do anything once there if we did manage to get to the CL group stage. However, at present, where else are we going to get 20m plus without selling Barkley.

Patrick is right about not raising ticket prices. No-one could afford the increase. And at a time when we are doing so well, you want to continue to raise attendances whatever way you can. If we did finish in the top six this season, I could see an increase in season ticket sales on the back of a very positive season. The club should freeze ticket prices across the board come the summer and even lower them where possible.

Frank McGregor
10 Posted 03/02/2014 at 13:53:33
Mike, Good post makes interesting reading. I would have liked to have seen another column on the right-hand side of the total column, showing the current debt being carried by each of the clubs.

Perhaps one of the other readers could supply this information? it would be appreciated.

Bill Gall
11 Posted 03/02/2014 at 13:51:25
With ticket prices being one of the major forms of income and, as raising prices in these difficult times may not be an option, the only alternative is to either increase capacity by somehow redeveloping Goodison Park or building a new stadium.

With the fiasco that was building a modern stadium on the waterfront and, although we are constantly told that the management are working daily on a new stadium, I don't believe a new stadium will be built in the next 5 years.

If Everton do qualify for the Champions League next season, we will need a number of experienced players brought in to compete both in Europe and the domestic league. This season we have a group of about 13 players that make up the first team but, with injuries, we do not have the squad to compete twice a week.

The problem of finance goes back for quite a number of years with the Chairman and Board operating in the now and not planning for the future and, at this present time, with prices escalating at an alarming rate, choose to bury their heads in the sand after mortgaging all our assets.

Getting into the Champions League will give the club a huge financial boost but, to maintain this level of income or increase it, we must not become a one-trick pony; we must continue to qualify in the following seasons... but, to do this, we will have to stay in the top 4 and, to do this, we will have to invest in the team and make a long-term plan for a stadium.

Mr Martinez's attitude of "you don't need money to get a winning team" is admirable but I believe you need money to maintain a winning squad. The bottom line is we need a new stadium with a higher capacity than Goodison Park that will increase gate revenues and improve our commercial revenue otherwise, we will be forced to sell our top class players... and that means one step forward and two steps backward.

Mike Oates
12 Posted 03/02/2014 at 17:02:01
Few questions raised, answers but Newcastle & Aston Villa gate and commercial revenues from 2010, so there will be an uplift from these figures below.

Newcastle - gate 29m, TV, 53, Commercial 19
Aston Villa - gate 22m, TV 54 , Commercial 17

both doing better than Everton!

Debt question, again some from 18 months ago:

Man Utd 308m, Newcastle 131, Aston Villa 114, Arsenal 98, Chelsea 92, Liverpool 65, Spurs 57 , Everton 45, Man City 43

Clearly City are being given huge incomes from all Eithad linked companies, not loans I think this is being reviewed by Uefa, pushed by Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool but the view is Uefa won't go against City. It's exactly the same for Monaco, who will qualify for CL next year but on the back of a Russian Billionaire.

Colin Glassar
13 Posted 03/02/2014 at 08:01:06
Our commercial income is so low, it's embarrassing.
Phil Walling
14 Posted 03/02/2014 at 09:50:43
Boring,I know but we are a 'seventhish' club. ANY manager who can improve on that is doing a great job. Dreams of ECL are just that and will always remain so until a monied regime can build a new stadium and compete in the transfer market.

In the meanyime seventhish is NOT failure!

Steve Pugh
15 Posted 03/02/2014 at 10:02:17
Phil, nor is it success. It is basically the same as someone in a job being happy that they didn't get fired and not really bothered about getting a promotion.(Whilst complaining they have no money)

Personally I want more.

Gerard Carey
16 Posted 03/02/2014 at 10:05:16
Money money money!!!!, thats what it will take. Where were Man City 10 years ago. They look set to dominate for years to come. Only if the chairman and the board are willing to put the money up then we might get in some world class players to add to our half decent squad. I am sure we would all like to get into the Champions League but we would want a panel of 22 to 26 very good players to rotate between premier and champions league and the cups. Or of course NEW OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Phil Walling
17 Posted 03/02/2014 at 10:37:15
I hear there's an Italian guy from Miami looking for a club to buy!!!!!
Kevin Tully
18 Posted 03/02/2014 at 10:10:05
As far as I can see, the club's business model reads along these lines. (Let me know if I'm wide of the mark)

We spend roughly between 70-75% of all revenue on wages, the debt has stabilised around the 45m mark which is serviceable, especially now BT are throwing 15-20m extra at all P.L. clubs. Chang will probably extend their sponsorship at mid-table levels, and we are stuck with Kitbag for another few years yet. So, without hiring the best in the business, our commercial revenue streams will probably stay at around 10% of Liverpool's. That 77m is a couple of years old now - they are nearer to 100m for this season.

To raise any sort of funds for the manager, we have to sell our best players on for a large profit, or sell our younger academy stars. We seem to be using the loan system to bolster our very thin squad.

Bill is working full-time, producing shows in London, Robert Earl clearly couldn't care less and Jon Woods is a retired businessman who enjoys his role as director at Everton. None of the above have any intention of investing further in the club.

So that's how the club works, but there is one worrying trend in all of that. There are absolutely no plans in place to move the club forward. Hand to mouth existence each season is the order of the day, and the directors (Well, two of them) are quite happy just to sell the next Barkley, so they can retain control and supply the manager with half of the proceeds.

We are stuck in quicksand until someone can put plans in place to start breathing fresh life into the club. If you think the current owners will suddenly devise a master plan, then think again. There is no will, money, or even a vision to change the model we operate under. Or am I wrong?

Brent Stephens
19 Posted 03/02/2014 at 10:48:13
Kevin #615 "To raise any sort of funds for the manager, we have to sell our best players on for a large profit, or sell our younger academy stars."

Kevin, I see where you're coming from but I'd hope we don't have to sell our best players, else we'll be standing still at best.

I'd say the same about academy stars, partly for the same reason, partly because I think our football / business model is Roberto moulding the young lads into the style of play he wants (St Roberto - "give me the academy player until he's seventeen..."). That's a medium-term project, and hopefully we get a couple of gems from that in a year or two and thereafter a steady flow.

In the meantime, we shift out the deadwood and ageing players and see if we can get some cheapish but good buys as the Scottish Manager was able to do. And at the same time aim for that place in the CL so we can generate more dosh to spend on and attract bigger names more easily.

St Roberto is saying money speeds things up but isn't necessary, so I'll go with that for now. I certainly wont be disappointed if we don't get 4th in Roberto's first year but it would really kickstart things (I cant believe we're actually and realistically talking about that). Oh, and an FA Cup - just for 2 trips to Wimbley.

Phil Walling
20 Posted 03/02/2014 at 11:10:52
Kevin's summation is spot on. However much our pride in the Club's history makes us see Everton as 'a big club', we are in the reality of the Sky Prem a second tier outfit. The trend to dependence on loan players illustrates this and we can only strive to keep ahead of the Albions, Stokes and Cardiffs who adopt similar policies.

Even the 'over-achievement' of 5th place would see us scratting around to find players for all those Thursday night non-games which are such a diversion for all who compete.

Although it doesn't merit an open-top bus, I think the majority of us recognise that a 6th finish makes us 'best of the rest' and that it should be seen as success with the resources we have to hand.

Perhaps,one day........but not in my lifetime,I fear!

Brian Harrison
21 Posted 03/02/2014 at 11:47:28
Money has always decided which are the most successful teams, yes now and again some team might buck the trend for a season but by and large the richest clubs win most of the trophies. I find it a bit rich Mourinho moaning about City breaking the FFP rules, yes they have exceeded the limit of losing 37 million per season over 2 seasons.

I think the FFP is a complete waste of time, when UEFA have inserted the caviat that teams can be banned from European competitions if the break the rule unless it is deemed damaging to the competition. So they will be prepared to throw out Man City even if they win the Premiership, it aint going to happen. Despite Chelsea,Arsenal and Liverpool objecting to Citys overspend.

Steve Carse
22 Posted 03/02/2014 at 20:03:34
The flaw in this assessment is witnessed in the Wolfsburg success. As far as I'm aware they didn't make huge signings before going all the way to the CL final. Likewise the majority of sides that made the latter stages. And, City aside, I can't say I see that much more quality in the sides above us in the PL.

It was this evidence that no doubt prompted Martinez to believe CL qualification to be possible. Brian Clough believed that success in football was 80% organisation and tactics and 20% individual talent. I suspect Martinez thinks the same and believes he has the know how and beliefs that can provide the 80%.

Frank Wade
23 Posted 03/02/2014 at 20:14:49
Mike, just wondering if you have any breakdown on the matchday revenue. Surprised to see Spurs (ground capacity 36k) and Liverpool (capacity 44k) with double our figure. I expect Spurs ticket prices are more expensive. Liverpool possibly charging Norwegian prices. Do they have a lot of corporate facilities?
Ian Bennett
24 Posted 03/02/2014 at 20:27:38
Steve - Clough was hugely reliant on Peter Taylor spotting talent to make the team function. They were a tremendous team in age in football when anything was possible.
Colin Glassar
25 Posted 03/02/2014 at 20:48:48
Ian, Martinez has Graham Jones, so no worries.
Steve Carse
26 Posted 03/02/2014 at 21:00:23
Correct Ian (642), but he was still up against sides with much more talented indivdiuals. Clough's tactics were very simple. He gave his players strict orders on what he wanted them to do and which parts of the pitch he wanted them to operate in -- and woe betide anyone who stepped outside of instructions.

Personally I don't expect us to finish 4th, but football is a team game, and as good as the component parts of a side may be, there's a lot more to putting those parts together before they become effective.

Raymond Fox
27 Posted 03/02/2014 at 20:59:24
Took awhile to write a measured, well thought out post.
Tried to post it and it disappeared into thin air, so I'm keeping this short.

I have to agree with what Phil says that as things stand we cant can't really compete with the 'big boys'.

One solution is a mega rich owner throwing money at the club.

Otherwise, we attempt to develop enough of our young players to the standard needed to bring said success, a big ask.
I suppose we are trying to do that every season!

Our profile is of a club that leads the fight each year and kills a few giants (money wise) along the way, but never quite succeeds getting into the European glamour ties.
Whether we can promote this image more, to our advantage, I'm not sure, its our only claim to fame in recent years.

Its really a vicious circle, success leads to more money which leads to more success,
& so on.

As it is were reliant on RM producing a wonder team that can achieve some success and allow us to grow.

Mike Oates
28 Posted 03/02/2014 at 21:59:53
Frank 640

Certainly. Spurs have the London pricing which helps big time , but they and Liverpool have numerous Corporate Boxes . I think I saw a figure of 100 boxes for spurs . Roughly say they charge on average 20 more per ticket and they earn 800k per more per game and with 100 boxes compared to our 10 gives this figure of 20m more per year. Don't know how many boxes Liverpool have but certainly far more than our 10 and I think their prices are higher than ours.

Darryl Ritchie
29 Posted 03/02/2014 at 21:44:08
Everton just doesn't have the same presence globally, that some other UK clubs do. If you asked anybody outside the UK to make a list of Premier League clubs, I strongly doubt that Everton would be anywhere near the top.

The CL would definitely improve would our global identity.

Our first 15 are world class, and can compete with anyone, toe to toe. Further down the bench we get kind of thin though. To bring the squad up to CL standards, takes money. Money that a club in our current financial situation can only get from competing and being successful in the the CL. It's kind of chicken and egg thing.

We don't have a billionaire owner. If I was in his position, I wouldn't want to sell either. He owns the best club on the planet. I don't hold his lack of money against him, any more than I hold the fact that Ossie is getting a little long in the tooth, against him. It is what it is.

For those demanding an owner with deep pockets; any owner not BK, be careful what you wish for. The Everton that emerges, could be unrecognizable.

Patrick Murphy
30 Posted 03/02/2014 at 22:47:29
Daryl you may well be right about being careful what we wish for, but I already think that the Everton that has emerged in the past 20 years is barely recognisable to the club that I supported in my younger days.

Remember all those clubs that had fantastic managers and great teams when they too were punching above their weight but didn't have the financial investment to match their achievements - in the 60s and 70s and 80s Derby, Forest, Ipswich, Burnley even Leeds and Wolves to a lesser extent they all had great teams and shouldn't have achieved as much as they did but there was no follow up and they kept sending their players to the top teams of the day, that is not something I wish for regardless of who the owner is.

Colin Glassar
31 Posted 03/02/2014 at 22:53:34
Darkly, I agree with you to a point; Champions League exposure would help but in the meantime we could heighten our profile by going to where the money is, eg, the Middle East and Asia. We always go on tour to The States where there's no interest in the game. Sadly, 'soccer' is behind fishing and on a par with ten-pin bowling as far as the yanks are concerned. Oh yes, I know it's a growing sport but more people hunt bears in The States than play football.

The Middle East and Asia is where they are mad about the game and where the money is. But do we ever go on tour over there? We once went to Australia, another football desert, just to please Tim Cahill. Did we make any money out of it? Did we hell. We have a Thai shirt sponsor yet never go there.

We have no presence in China, Japan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore etc... where there are literally billions of potential shirt buyers. Honestly, I can't bother going on but the people in charge of promoting our club need to be sacked ASAP.

Robin Cannon
32 Posted 03/02/2014 at 23:07:49
Catching that fourth place even for just one season would bring significant benefits, assuming that we made it past the Champions League qualifying round.

Even were we to tank in the group stages; and there's no reason to necessarily think we would; we place a continental style, and it's very much luck of the draw, six games with Champions League revenue would have a significant positive impact on our finances, as well as raising our profile.

I would love to see us progress and grow organically, not just get bought up and have money thrown at us (and, let's face it, big money buyers seem to be a mid-long term disaster about 90% of the time, anyhow). That involves good commercial decisions, a long term stadium plan that makes sense (whatever it might be), and sustained on-the-field success with notable budgetary restrictions.

Far far from easy, but something we should never stop striving for. "Nil satis nisi optimum" doesn't mean we've failed when we're not the best, it means we've failed if we ever *accept* not being the best.

Paul Kelly
33 Posted 04/02/2014 at 00:07:13
Kev Tully, spot on.

With this board in charge of things, I don’t see us moving forward. Could anyone see billy bullshitter splashing the cash if we qualified for the CL? I don’t myself. He’s pocket the windfall in a heartbeat.

Magician bill has already made the last load of cash disappear. History would only repeat itself, as it already has with him.

Eric Myles
34 Posted 04/02/2014 at 01:01:24
Daryl #654, a lot of fans said 'careful what you wish for' about the departure of Moyes, and look how that's turned out.

What is clear is that this board has no ideas and no intentions to take the Club forward so they need replacing with someone that will.

Darryl Ritchie
35 Posted 04/02/2014 at 01:34:42
Eric @654


Bill Gall
36 Posted 04/02/2014 at 01:27:03
Getting into the Champions League for one season will only give Everton a big lift for one season unless the extra money is put into team development.

If we are relying on a place in the Champions League to solve are financial problems for one season that will not happen, we need to qualify for the Champions League on a regular basis and I do not think that Everton can do it without a strong squad to compete in Europe and at home in the cups and the league.

Harold Matthews
37 Posted 04/02/2014 at 01:25:41
Steve C #645. Your description of the Cloughie system fitted in with the Glen Hoddle description of Everton. How every player is in the exact right spot in relation to where the ball happens to be on the pitch. Also, as added by Souness on the same show."With the pass pass pass game, discipline and hard graft are essential. It only takes one player not to show for the ball for the whole thing to fall apart."
Eric Myles
38 Posted 04/02/2014 at 01:51:24
Darryl #688, there were lots if fans on here who were posting that if Moyes ever left we'd be relegated
Darryl Ritchie
39 Posted 04/02/2014 at 02:04:15
Eric, sorry. Should have made myself clearer. What I meant was, "Who would you suggest as a replacement for the current board?"
Darryl Ritchie
40 Posted 04/02/2014 at 02:20:37
Eric , I can be a little dense sometimes. Good point!
Matt Traynor
41 Posted 04/02/2014 at 05:32:36
Hmmm, I replied to this thread yesterday but my post must have been lost in the "upgrade" ...

Anyhoo, what I basically said was, a few years ago I carried out a study for a client that reviewed income amongst top flight clubs in England, Spain, Italy and Germany. A lot of interesting trends emerged, but obviously I looked in detail at figures relating to Everton.

Even back then (which was two TV deals ago) we were far too dependent on broadcast revenue relative to commercial and matchday income. It would be fascinating to have updated figures because I would guess that if you looked at relative movements in proportions, we would be even more dependent on broadcast revenue (which is definitely not true of other clubs) and therefore our board have delivered the square root of fuck all in commercial and matchday terms so to those calling on them to pull their finger out, "Watch This Space".

^^ That space there.

Harold Matthews
42 Posted 04/02/2014 at 11:34:35
Matt. Thanks mate. The views of an experienced economist are always appreciated. We know Bill and his mates make a small steady profit but I fail to understand the lack of effort, intelligence and creativity in the commercial and matchday areas. Surely this is a priority. Am I missing something? My brain patterns have trouble with anything involving money.
Matt Traynor
43 Posted 04/02/2014 at 12:44:34
It seems Barcelona, as well as loaning us young Gerard, also wish to give us little teams a better chance of a shot at qualification for the Champions League.

Javier Faus, their VP has today called for the expansion of the Champions League from 32 to 64 teams.... and the reduction of the top national leagues from 20 to 18, or maybe even 16 teams.

Or maybe it's just a recognition that 6 teams vying for four places doesn't work out, so give them all guaranteed entry and the rest of us bottom feeders can be content with fighting for the Europa league.

4th used to be the new 1st. Will it now be 6th?

Anthony Flack
44 Posted 04/02/2014 at 12:33:44
Harrold I wonder if the lack of effort, intelligence and creativity is at least in part a consequence of the constraints that the ground presents?

I do plenty of work with membership organisations and how to make more money from your member....

- When I look around Goodison (and I love it) I do not see many ways of making much more out of it on match days. Not without major building work or reducing fan capacity in favour of boxes.....

Sure with some imagination you could make a little more on match days, for example at Fulham and Arsenal it is easier to get a beer at half time with chaps walking around with beer packs and pumps on their back.

Merchandising I do not know a great deal about and suspect we could make more.

I reckon neither merchandising or selling a few more beers (or similar) on match day will provide the quantum leap required in income.

It needs to come from either a new ground (which will not come free), redevelopment of Goodison (also not free), sponsorship or a sugar daddy.


Michael Winstanley
45 Posted 04/02/2014 at 12:53:04
So basically the dream of CL footy will bring us about another 20 mil in TV revenue every season? I'd imagine we'd have to increase player wages to complete at the top table which might impact the extra 20 mil but it would mean we could strengthen every window.

The commercial revenue is a tad embarrassing in terms of numbers but it's where we are and it doesn't look like that'll change until we are at least perennial challengers.

I like the idea of an expansion in Champions League numbers although I'd be surprised if the Premier League would be happy to lose a few teams to accommodate the idea.

Colin Glassar
46 Posted 04/02/2014 at 13:05:55
It's the off-field activities, commercial, that could help us but we are so dormant in that area it's pathetic. We have one of the worst sponsorship deals in the Prem.
Kevin Tully
47 Posted 04/02/2014 at 13:01:14
Harold, you say : " I fail to understand the lack of effort, intelligence and creativity in the commercial and matchday areas."

I think the badge fiasco sums up perfectly why we find ourselves in the position we are in. Amateur hour throughout the whole organisation.

Let's face facts. if you can't get a simple re-branding exercise such as that right, you really have no business holding such a position. You can also add the Park End development if you wish - what a shambles. Mass resignations would be the order of the day in any other organisation.

When you find your motives, or expertise publicly being called into question, the first thing you will do is hire sycophants. This is exactly the path Bill & the board have chosen.

Matt Traynor
48 Posted 04/02/2014 at 13:08:53
Michael #749, I don't like the expansion of the CL because under our current ownership we still won't get anywhere near it. If they do expand to include 6 teams, then if you assume Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd (questionable) and Chelsea with their resources are shoe-ins, that leaves Liverpool and Tottenham thinking they can justify increasing their budgets further to effectively guarantee CL footy. Then you've got the likes of us and Newcastle, even Southampton and maybe a couple of others thinking we can gatecrash it IF one of the monied teams screw it up.

The Premier League will not like it, but ultimately 2/3 of the teams would have to vote for it. The only way I'd see them doing it is agreeing to reduce to 18 teams, but by losing 1 of the relegation slots - which would have the Football League (rightly) screaming blue murder...

I really wish these teams would just piss off with the top teams from Italy, Germany, France etc. and create the little league they obviously so want. The fans would tire of it quickly, as would the sponsors which would also mean the TV monies would collapse. Within 3 years they'd be begging to come back.

And I'd welcome them back.

Starting in Ryman League 7

(Only cos I can't think offhand if there's a lower league).

Colin Glassar
50 Posted 04/02/2014 at 13:17:21
Matt Traynor,

You're right about an extended CL. These numpties are killing football. The old European Cup was much more exciting and prestigious than this bloated, overrated bore fest. CL should be Champions only, and not runners up. I'd establish a European super cup for the teams just below the Champions so you'd have teams like Real Madrid, Borrusia Dortmund, Juventus, Chelsea, Benfica etc....participating, and hopefully us, this would be a fantastic competition and would be just as financially viable as the CL.

Michael Winstanley
51 Posted 04/02/2014 at 13:19:04
To be honest Matt I don't watch Champions League football, obviously when we join in I'll watch but not before. Personally, I'd like to see it reduced back to its bare bones, a straight knock out competition for the winners of each league only.
Harold Matthews
52 Posted 04/02/2014 at 14:58:14
Anthony/Kevin. Thanks lads. A very sad state of affairs.
Brent Stephens
53 Posted 04/02/2014 at 15:49:01
Matt #754 "Starting in Ryman League 7"

Tenuous link but did anybody hear the piece of Today on Radio this morning? A police side in the Ryman League have so far played 27 games:
Won 9, Drawn 9, Lost 9

Darryl Ritchie
54 Posted 04/02/2014 at 16:05:27
I hear we've just re-signed with Umbro for next season. Does anyone know how much we will have to pay them???
Steve Carse
55 Posted 04/02/2014 at 16:05:41
Antony (747), you're forgetting that under current arrangements with Kitbag and Soderex, selling more beer or merchandise respectively doesn't generate any more income for Everton - a classic example of the shortsighted, small time, risk averse way in which the commercial department at the club is told to operate.
Raymond Fox
56 Posted 04/02/2014 at 16:21:53
I don't know enough about our commercial dept. to say if their good, bad or indifferent.

The sponsoring companies are looking for maximum benefit on their investment Utd, City, Gunners, Chelsea, Spurs and rs. offer better value than us because they are perceived rightly to have more chance to be in the limelight of the media.

I think Roberto is helping us get more coverage because of his personality, and the style and quality of our play, which is fostering a greater belief in the media that we might actually win something!

That's the key, we need to actually win something to make us much more attractive to sponsors and supporters alike.

Andy Crooks
57 Posted 04/02/2014 at 19:27:55
Kevin Tully # 733, excellent post. Football seems to inhabit a different world where accountability is an unheard of concept. Employment legislation seems irrelevant, mediocrity is rewarded and agents are , instead of being told "Fuck right off you demented, money grabbing shysters", given huge amounts of money for, err, fucking breathing...
Patrick Murphy
58 Posted 04/02/2014 at 21:49:22
Isn't it sad that with all the glamour and show-biz in the game, that an FA Cup replay between Fulham and Sheff Utd can attract so few people - I didn't realise it was on live until I got bored and saw it was on ITV4 at the start of extra-time.
Dick Fearon
59 Posted 04/02/2014 at 21:56:15
Against their enormous income, what must be taken into account is their massive transfer market and ongoing wages costs. Perhaps someone with a grasp on such things could give us those figures. I guess the RS wage bill for Stevie GBH, the Cannibal and would-be disco dancer would be a tidy sum.
Ged Dwyer
60 Posted 04/02/2014 at 23:39:50
So, if we follow this logic, top earners Man Utd should be top of the league by a mile. Or is it more to do with having the right man in charge?
Mike Oates
61 Posted 05/02/2014 at 10:37:40
As author of article it would be nice to finish with of humour.

Brent Stephens #776 As I live on Windy & Wet South Coast the only local football I get to see is the Ryman Premier Division and you are correct with your post re Police team:

Metropolitan Police P27, W9, D9,L9 Arrests 36 Convictions 30 Points 36

I have seen them at my local team, and they are pretty average, but a BIG BIG team.

Brent Stephens
62 Posted 05/02/2014 at 10:50:15


I guess when any players for the police team are sent off for bad fouls, they appeal and claim "He fell onto my foot, your honour". So all red cards rescinded.

Harold Matthews
64 Posted 05/02/2014 at 13:44:53
Yes, talking about fouls and cards reminded me of the PSG game the other day when Thiago Motta deliberately went in over the top and got away with it. "Hmm, he can be naughty, muttered the commentator. "25 yellows and ten reds." Lovely lad.
Keith Young
65 Posted 06/02/2014 at 14:35:45
Darryl #697 Along with too many others, not least the lazy media, you are wrong to say that BK owns Everton. HE DOESN'T AND NEVER HAS.

His ownership is still in the 25% region. Members of the Board including BK own 70+% The rest of the shareholders actually own more of the Club than BK.

The reason BK got backing from his friends was that he convinced them that they would make a substantial profit on their investment.* He enjoys a high profile because of his Chairmanship not, as is wrongly stated, through owning Everton.

* I now believe that that event will happen in the near future.

Darryl Ritchie
66 Posted 06/02/2014 at 17:53:09
Keith, I didn't know that.
Harold Matthews
67 Posted 06/02/2014 at 18:12:07
Gabriel Marcotti on Twitter..."You can't own a football club. You just look after it for the next generation."
Darryl Ritchie
68 Posted 06/02/2014 at 18:34:29
Still, if that club was Everton, and the "owner " was me, I'd want to look after it as well as I could, for as long as I could.

Mind you if I happened to be a billionaire, it would be easier

Darryl Ritchie
69 Posted 06/02/2014 at 19:04:57
However if I was "owner" of, say...,our neighbours across the park, I'd milk'em dry. And when Liverpool was firmly entrenched mid-table of the Championship, I'd sell the lot to a Chinese billionaire, whose favourite colour was blue.
Keith Young
70 Posted 06/02/2014 at 21:52:03
Darryl, we will get an owner just like you, billionaire or not, so I'm happy with that thought. All of us who love Everton are also custodians as Harold describes. If the wrong person did get control then he would lose all of us and he would have Everton in name only.

The current spell with RM in charge is very satisfying to say the least. I just met a poor farmer in Namibia, Africa who was wearing Man Utd shorts. He wants OFM to go soon but you know he said, "Moyes did a good job for Everton, didn't he?" I said "He did for Everton what he doing for Man Utd."

So you see it's amazing how the media machine plus BK's "Aren't we doing well considering?" downgraded us unnecessarily. It's Everton's history that feeds imaginative minds such as RM's and success will follow. I hope the penny has dropped with BK in which case he will sell and get his profit sooner with all this positive outlook we now have.

Chris Wilson
73 Posted 06/02/2014 at 23:04:39
I don't know, but there IS something different going on. Maybe it's Alan Meyers influence or Roberto Martinez, but there has been a lot more PR schemes this season. The Christmas Street parties, the tea time Town Hall meeting, lighting the Tower blue, the twitter Umbro unveiling even the match day experience seems more energized; samba bands, there was a flash mob at half time for one match, and there was day where the employee's kids worked the QPR match I think?

I mean it could all be a smoke screen so we look over here when something is going on over there. But here we are on a wonderful run of form, getting SOME recognition from the media and pundits, and have as good a chance as anybody to grab fourth and maybe a cup, and I haven't heard very much out of Bill Kenwright. Normally he's all over Everton TV with interviews and articles, but this season he's been very subdued. Meh, could be nothing. I just find it interesting.

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