I get the feeling that Everton fans do not really know what they want for their club.

We pride ourselves on being "The People’s Club", which I despise, personally; it’s patronising and offers no value to the club at all – other than to portray us as a local entity with local support.

We want stability and would hate the likes of Tan and others like him taking over the club; however, anyone that does take over the club will more likely be like this type of owner and more likely to want to make changes at Everton that fans would find even more to complain about.

We hate change, to be frank; take the badge situation – love it or hate it, was it really necessary to lambast it and force a change which cost the club money when, in my opinion, the new one (or indeed the old one) was fine and again adds no value to the revenue potential of the club.

We loved Moyes (not all, including me) but it has not taken long for some supporters to start slagging Martinez off; it’s okay at Man Utd to call it transition... but at Everton that’s not acceptable.

We really are as a club stuck in a difficult place: we are not a sexy club, we do not win anything, and we have no global identity – nor will we have until we win something or we sign Messi. A new owner might be able to do the latter but the upfront costs to attract a Messi in a new stadium, investing in the team and taking on the current affordable debt, are restrictive – even if the current owners took a hit on the valuation.

If we want global identity, we may have to give up the history and move on; yes, use it as part of the marketing activity, as tradition is important... but it’s not the panacea. For example, why not consider the name change, "Liverpool City"? One of the most recognised cities in the world: history, tradition, cool, modern, growing and developing a brand to be proud of – our neighbours currently have the complete usage of the name to exploit as they want. Everton, the little suburb of Walton, does not stand a chance. Yes, it pains me also to consider something like this but this change alone – keeping everything else we have and stand for – has to be worth considering.

If we do not consider radical and out-of-the-box thinking to exploit the opportunities that exist, then we are destined for what we currently have: a settled club, punching above its weight (how patronising), having expectations every season of finishing 4th and maybe a cup run and beating Liverpool at Anfield for once. If this is acceptable to us, then forget all the slagging off of the club and be happy with your lot; if not, then I am afraid you are fighting a losing battle.

I love Everton and all our support (well, not all... some of the away fans are a disgrace); I love the club and all it makes me feel at every single match I attend (which is all of them, by the way); it’s a special place but I accept that my special place may have to change dramatically for Everton to dine at the top table.

One thing is for certain: changes like I have mentioned may not be palatable, and they would not be for the likes of Robert or Bill or any true Evertonian, but let us at least talk about it. Let’s not make change like this a taboo subject... because there should be be no wrong answers when it comes to the potential of the club.

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Gerry Morrison
1 Posted 21/03/2014 at 16:59:29
You lost me at the point when you were changing our name to Liverpool City. I have read some funny stuff on this site, but that is the best so far.
Declan Brown
2 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:02:01
You say the new badge was ok?

As for the non sexy football club with no global identity, nor did Man City up to 5 years ago.

As for Liverpool City...i'll let the rest take you up on that. Don't know what you're on mate, but with the greatest respect I bet it's pretty strong stuff.

Radical thinking for me is starting to redevelop Goodison one stage at a time, bit by bit, a new stadium is out of the question. One thing that gets me everytime, where is all the money going, richest league in the world, we have a small squad and wages are kept low. So where's all the money going?

Lyndon Lloyd
3 Posted 21/03/2014 at 16:53:13
I think you abandon your history, your identity and your soul at (y)our grave peril, Paul. If it is global branding that you're concerned about, when it comes to Everton in particular, the extent and richness of our history is our Unique Selling Point.

What was noticeable as the Premier League has been pitched to American audiences over the past couple of years is how some people were attracted to Everton by that very history, that community spirit, that people's (small "p") club image.

And when it comes to retaining our match-going following and keeping attendances in the mid- to high-30,000s even during the lean times with no silverware, it's that unity around a traditional club that will (and has, in my opinion) keep us ticking over.

I'm not convinced, though, that this quest for a global brand is all that important in the grand scheme of things because the only thing that will garner a big global following is success. Once you start winning things, you attract the bandwagon-jumpers and the TV audience and the big sponsorship money.

In that sense, you can change your name all you like I'm going to assume you're not on a wind-up with this one and say that, frankly, I find the idea utterly abhorrent but unless you're in the Champions League or challenging for the title, it's not going to make much difference.

We need to work with what we have, which is our rich history and our close ties to the area in which we've played for 136 years. We are cultivating and nurturing our own brand at the moment, one that fits with the incremental moves we're making as we start to push against the glass ceiling above us. We need investment, not to sell our soul and identity in what might prove to be an ephemeral epoch of huge money and overnight success in the Premier League.

Matt Traynor
4 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:05:28
Was this a NekNominate? Or something. Internet has a lot to answer for.
Patrick Murphy
5 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:07:31
Radical thinking is required - er no it isn't - having some sort of plan in place that is rather more than waiting around for some mysterious investor(s) to turn up would be a start.

As soon as Kirkby died a death nobody at the club seems to have a clue as to what direction we go. They could have said in order to move on we will keep the TV money ring-fenced for the re-development of Goodison or towards a new stadium.

Instead they keep watching the wage bill rise and our squad gets reduced season on season.

Failing to plan is planning to fail and that is what our board are guilty of both short and long-term.

We could always amalgamate with our neighbours and then we could all share in the glory and it would cure our problems as a fan-base overnight wouldn't it? After all one club became two clubs so why shouldn't two clubs become one? Now that would be radical don't you think?


Colin Fitzpatrick
6 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:25:41
lol, about a week early.
Eric Myles
7 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:09:58
Another 'careful what you wish for' post on new ownership and criticising the fans for costing the Club money for having to re-design a badge that nobody asked them to fcuk about with and cock up in the first place?

Owner taking a hit on valuation when they paid 20mn and are asking 120mn for their shares???

Renaming the Club Liverpool City, FFS!!

Is this RE or BK posting when he's pissed?

Patrick Murphy
8 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:29:26
Eric I think it might be what they both submitted as their business plan to the bank for the latest extension of the overdraft. Liverpool City Council first XI would be a better name after all they own Finch Farm don't they?
Richard Pike
9 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:46:49
Goodness me. The name "Everton" is one of the most distinctive in football. Why on earth would you even consider doing away with it?

Think about it: in what other context does it appear? Everton... mints. That's it. Pretty much every time you hear the word "Everton" it's something to do with our team, one of the things that makes it a special club. Few others (Juventus, Benfica, for example) can lay claim to such a readily-identifiable moniker. Change it, and you risk instantly losing that recognisability. Change it to "Liverpool City" and you risk a) confusion of us with the Dark Side, something nobody wants, and b) the perception that we're trying to cash in on their "global appeal" *spit*.

By extension of this, it really oughtn't to be that hard marketing such a unique brand as Everton FC. Nevertheless at times they make it look very difficult.

Dennis Stevens
10 Posted 21/03/2014 at 18:03:29
Paul, why should we "... at least talk about it ..." ? Change isn't on this Board's agenda so talking about it is idle speculation or wishful thinking. If and when it does happen we, as supporters, will have very little say in the matter.
Lyndon Lloyd
11 Posted 21/03/2014 at 18:27:53
To be fair, Dennis, change has been on their agenda in recent years Kirkby, the badge and supporters had plenty of say in both instances (albeit swayed by plenty of propaganda in the first example).
Andy Crooks
12 Posted 21/03/2014 at 18:30:47
"Liverpool City"?
Noel Early
13 Posted 21/03/2014 at 18:23:01
We all know what needs to change; it has nothing to do with our badge, it definitely has nothing to do with our name.

We won't reach the next level until the Board is changed and a rich owner is willing to pump money in to buy Bill and the crooks out. I hate this "Be careful what you wish for" attitude... for example, if we got a Tan instead of a Mansour and were left in the lurch, Bill can just do what he did the last time step in and pay nothing for the club again. Invest nothing, sell the training ground, Kitbag will take over the merchandise again, Sodexho will do the catering and Nike can do the shirt deal again.

Be careful what you wish for...

Ian Pilkington
14 Posted 21/03/2014 at 17:55:08
Changing the name of our club would be patently ridiculous and has completely destroyed the credibility of this article.

None of the London Clubs carry the name of their City, neither do Juventus, Lazio, Rangers, Celtic, Aston Villa, Ajax, Feyenoord or Benfica.

Even the normally toothless FA seem set to prevent Hull City being renamed at the senseless whim of their owner.

We definitely do need radical thinking; a new owner prepared to provide the finance to allow the Club to compete again for silverware.

Incidentally, Liverpool City was the name given to a singularly unsuccessful Rugby League Club.

Jim Lloyd
15 Posted 21/03/2014 at 18:15:23
First of April, is it?

Assuming I've got the date wrong and you are serious, then I would hope that when you write an article, you first of all write it about what YOU think.

Somehow, you seem to have taken a poll that no-one else knows about and assume that your views and conclusions are what WE, as Evertonians think, rather than yourself.

You say "WE hate change" and use the petition against that abomination of a badge (my view, not all Evertonians' views). I don't believe Evertonians hate change; I believe, however, that we change things without thinking of the consequences, at our peril.

The badge, in my view, is the symbol of our club, it should stand for all that our club has ever been and is now and in the future. Personally, I thought the badge was a childish, toytown representation of our club, which makes me ashamed to see it portrayed so prominently around the ground.

You then go on to say that it adds no value to the revenue potential of the club. I strongly disagree with your assertion. I think the major reason the badge was changed again, was because the club were aware that sales were likely to be affected if they kept it.

Liverpool spent megabucks getting someone to redesign their liverbird, as image is important for financial and for identity reasons.

Stability isn't the word that I would use that is uppermost in my mind. I want to see us be able to take on other teams with vast sums of money at their disposal. You mention, quite rightly, that we don't want a Tab; but the argument about ownership can become simplified by those who argue that in order to progress, we need a new owner (me... and some others I guess) and those who come out with the mantra "be careful what you wish for!" (Does my head in that one!)

As for your idea of renaming us as Liverpool City. Well, I can see what you're assessment of one of our our problems is (lack of global exposure) but I think we would (a) not be able to as I would see the football authorities refusing it... but (b) more importantly, we follow EVERTON.

Colin Fitzpatrick
16 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:05:08
"Everton, the little suburb of Walton" Tells you everything right there. lol
Dennis Stevens
17 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:15:42
Lyndon, was DK ever viable would it have happened, or would it have been fucked up as KD was? And the supporters' 'say' was a highly questionable 'vote' and then, in both examples, supporters working to stop the club doing something they shouldn't.
Brian Williams
18 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:28:21
Maybe well intentioned, Paul... but wrong on so many levels.
Dean Adams
19 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:36:16
If we are not Everton, then I don't want to play anymore, got it!!
Paul Niklas
20 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:29:16
I promised myself I would not respond as I Knew I was on a hiding to nothing; however, a couple of comments need at least some form of repost.

I will leave it to my last paragraph to confirm my devotion to the club, which is not in question here and nobody on this site or anywhere else for that matter can question my support.

They no doubt can question my sanity and that is fair enough but my points are, in my opinion, my points and I believe them.

I as much as anyone else want us to win things and want all the things that go with that, if that can be achieved as we are based on what we do currently with some luck also then great, let's continue and if we get some extra cash then redevelop Goodison which is what I would prefer (Villa is a fantastic ground).

Lyndon, why when something is so polarised to your view or anyone else for that matter is it a wind-up? Check back on your articles, I have said it before.

I say it in the context of attracting a buyer and nothing else; nobody can deny that the RS get considerable profile for that luxury and we do not.

A new owner needs something to firstly attract him and then to work with; I currently do not believe the latter exists at the moment and the former is not without its merits.

I think it is well known on this site that I support the board and the club as long as they are the board and I know first hand they do the best they can.

On another point, and Lyndon you are entitled to the opinion you have, but I have to say, History and Tradition are wonderful things when you have the luxury to dwell on them; please tell me what in the last 25 years has that history and tradition given the club? Yes, it keeps people like me and you buying season tickets every year because we are entrenched but I struggle beyond that.

The silly comment about Everton as a surburb of Walton is not surprising considering who made it, but, to the outside world, Everton is a football ground in Walton and nothing else. To the city of Liverpool, a ward with 14,000 inhabitants but that won't attract a buyer either.

I am sure I am up for considerably more abuse, which is fair enough, but to be clear there is no wind-up here; I have complete conviction in what I say and that is enough for me.

Soni Samuel
21 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:44:30
No way would I want to be renamed to "Liverpool City"..
Ken Buckley
22 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:40:56
Paul, I have done as you ask and considered your suggestions and, looking into the future, Liverpool City v Hull Tigers is a game I wont be getting a ticket for.
Lyndon Lloyd
23 Posted 21/03/2014 at 19:48:18
Paul: "History and tradition are wonderful things when you have the luxury to dwell on them, please tell me what in the last 25 years has that history and tradition given the club."

That's obviously where we differ because I believe we "dwell" on history and tradition precisely because it's one of our biggest strengths when we're not able to compete for the top honours.

I believe they are central to what Everton is. It's what drove thousands to descend on Goodison in 1994 to collectively will us to stay up in that Wimbledon game; it's what not only spurs people to renew their season tickets each year but also makes us one of the best-supported (perhaps, in terms relative to our reach and base, the best-supported) clubs away from home despite the economy and the slender nature of the hope that we can finish in the top four in the short term; it's what attracts certain people in the game to the club (witness how much Martinez has taken so much of our history and folklore to heart) and gave rise to the "once Everton has touched you" mantra; it's what keeps alive the tradition of passing Everton down to generations of youngsters who might otherwise support Liverpool or one of the other "bigger" clubs and provides lifeblood for the future.

Identity is at the heart of supporting a football team and I believe that you risk doing far greater damage chasing fickle and ephemeral global attention if you mess with it than if you continue to nurture and build it at home among the people who matter the most when it comes to the prolonged life of the club.

Brent Stephens
24 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:03:21
"From My Armchair", Ken?!

"We gathered in the kitchen, as usual. Discussion quickly turned to electric versus gas hobs...".

Nah! "From My Seat" - every time!

Paul Niklas
25 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:00:52
Ken, I agree on the Hull Tigers front, but would you really have a problem if some oligarch came along (if his assets are not frozen) bought the club, built us a new stadium or redeveloped Goodison, we played in Royal Blue we still have our history and tradition and memories, 55,000 at every game and we win the Champions League, all for the price of a name change?

I know the answer, Ken, but would the future supporter and the kids of today give the same answer as you or I?

Colin Fitzpatrick
26 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:00:04
"The silly comment about 'Everton as a suburb of Walton' is not surprising considering who made it." It was you who made it Paul. When in a hole, best stop digging.
Andy Crooks
27 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:06:07
Paul, it's not radical thinking but sort of sensible thinking we need. The new Chang deal is ludicrous and demeaning. We'd achieve more by putting a local charity on the shirt rather than selling the name to pay the wages of one player.

It seems to me that those selling the club have no belief in what we are. Founder members with, and you may disparage it, a history that means something to many people.

Why not replace the utterly fucking atrocious marketing of the club with something approaching adequate. Not radical, I grant you... but a start.

Paul Niklas
28 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:07:59
Lyndon, in my heart, I agree with you fully... but the head tells me, if we want what we have craved for since 1987, then I for one cannot see anything of what you have said helping achieve it.

For example, will a five-year-old kid today think like we do in 20 years time? I doubt it very much, they will be as loyal as they are to their new iPhone until the next one comes out.

And this is the the rub for me: we have to think of the club on a long term basis and in doing that we have to think of what the future will be and what it will require; a new owner is only a part of the jigsaw puzzle.

Paul Niklas
29 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:21:01
Andy Crooks, "founder members" please tell me what that will do when someone is looking at the balance sheet or considering buying the club.

Founder members Woolworths were the first on the High Street with what they offered and look what happened to them.

Have a look at the list of founder members by the way how many of them are currently playing in the Champions League and winning trophies?

David Hallwood
30 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:36:41
How about changing our name to North Liverpool Pirates and change from royal blue to pomegranate-radical what!!
Jim Lloyd
31 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:16:11
Well said indeed Lyndon.

Paul, I'm sorry that I reacted in the way I did to your obviously well meaning post. I think though, that some of the out of the box thinking will need to concentrate on the option (if there is one) that will help us most to give us what we all want. I think we all want our club to be up there, as we were in the sixties and and eighties, challenging for the title and going into Europe.

I think you said in your post that you support the board and that they do their best. Well, let's look at it. They don't seem able or willing to invest the funds reqyuired to give us a fighting chance of competing with Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Man U, Liverpool or Spurs.

A Multi Billionaire bought Chelsea when they'd won bugger all, were not sexy and were in a land locked ground like us. Arsenal, have a great reputation and history but were in a land locked ground like us, yet they have a billionaire on the board who wants to take over the club and they have a new ground into the bargain.

Man City had won nothing for decades, in fact had dropped two divisions in the recent past. They were courageous enough to go for the new ground and are now one of the richest clubs in the world and, unless football implodes, are just going to go from strength to strength.

Spurs are very similar to us, in a ground the same size and design as ours and have not won the title for Donkeys years. They have a billionaire owner and have plans for a new ground and spend mega bucks on their team. Whether they become successful or not, we'll have to wait and see they have financial backing.

Don't really need to mention those over the park.

Then there's us. Up to around 1987 we were considered to be in the top five. Thewn we slid down and down. We had a chance of a world class stadium, didn't take it and just kept treading water in an ageing ground with no sign of an improved ground or a new owner.

There are other teams which, up till recently, would never have been in contention for taking us over but there are several clubs now, who are in that financial postion.

Seems to me that, unless the club is bought by a financial institution or Billionaire, I cannot see any other outcome that slowly but surely, we will be left behind in a ground that desperately needs rebuilding, with know money to do it. Seems to me that Bill Kenwright is an Evertonian whoi is living a dream. I fear though that if he doesn't sell up...soon, we will be left with the nightmare.

Geoff Evans
32 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:00:48
Paul: Can't go along with the name change mate, but see where your coming from.
John Zapa
33 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:33:15
Since someone has already brought up the notion of joining with the neighbours, how about changing the name to Everpool? Has a ring to it....

On a more serious note, the rate of revenue growth of all the other clubs that make up the top 7 has been growing at a far greater rate than Everton. Soon all these clubs will have turnovers at least 4 times this club. How in seven hells can anyone compete when the playing field is so unbalanced?

Paul Niklas
34 Posted 21/03/2014 at 20:52:13
Thanks Jim,

I only ever have the future of the club in my thoughts, I understand what you have said about the other clubs; however, London is a micro bubble and certainly attracts big investors for lots of reasons it's the capital, it has a growing population and a very multi-cultural one which is an opportunity to attract new support.

Manchester City was an easy choice: free stadium basically and a club carrying the global name of Manchester and a population that is both growing and again more multi-cultural than Liverpool.

I would love some institution to come along and invest in the club but that will either come on the basis they get what they want before they buy it or they get what they want which they will be entitled too if they buy it. I for one would be open-minded to a name change as long as we kept everything else. I really do believe the name change would be an attraction. One thing is for certain: the RS would hate it and fight us all the way but they could do nothing about it at all.

James Martin
35 Posted 21/03/2014 at 21:10:18
If a manager could put out a few real winners on the pitch who played with a bit of passion, flair, grit, and god forbid actually won one game of note then it would probably do more for our 'brand' than any name change would. Is it really that hard to put together a team that doesn't bottle every big game?
Jamie Carroll
36 Posted 21/03/2014 at 21:15:16
That People's Club banner reminds me of the sketch in the League of Gentlemen where Tubs and Edward would eye every customer in the shop with trepidation for the crime of being not local! It's holding the club back and it's one of the reasons why the club is constantly having it's players linked to other clubs.
Tony Abrahams
38 Posted 21/03/2014 at 21:04:53
Paul, why are you in support of this board? I have just posted on another thread, and for the life of me, I cannot think of anything good that they have ever done. Not trying to be controversial, honestly. I just don't know anything that they have ever done to make Everton a better football club?
Kevin Tully
39 Posted 21/03/2014 at 21:42:38
Every discussion we have on the future of the club eventually ends up with numerous reasons why we can't move forward - local fanbase, shitty ground, debt, not in London, Liverpool FC, no-one wants to buy us, tied in to long term commercial deals and on and on, round and round we go.

If I had to tackle any of those problems, my first job would be to redevelop Goodison Park, even if it took me 10 years. I am sure the rest of that list would become insignificant as time passed.

The limbo we find ourselves in at present is frankly like a slow death. Why didn't our owners earmark the extra 20m we will receive this season to start building a new stand?

You would almost think they are out to make as much money as possible, or they really are very stupid.

Earl & Woods are clearly not stupid. Kenwright is a puppet. I do wonder what value they bring to the club, can someone offer an explanation?

Gavin Ramejkis
40 Posted 21/03/2014 at 21:17:03
A lot of challenges in this Paul, can't think of a single club changing its name to its benefit, the business itself isn't being ran properly; radical indeed given thats pretty much been the same for over 2 decades.

One thing really ground my gears though Paul and it's this line " they would not be for the likes of Robert or Bill or any true Evertonian", which Robert? The rugby man Bobby Elstone or the Spurs supporter who hasn't been to the ground in 5 years?

Kieran Riding
41 Posted 21/03/2014 at 22:15:50
'Born.. Not manufactured'

Well it's a good job.. As it's hard work getting the kids interested in EFC.
Before I get pelters, I speak as a southern based Evertonian.

Paul Niklas
42 Posted 21/03/2014 at 22:03:06
I think the question as to what the Board have done for the club is subjective to an degree. I do not know the answer, by the way, but from what I can see and feel and hear, I would offer up the following.

Firstly, Destination Kirkby was not as thought as it should have been and the Kings Dock was a major opportunity missed but it is what it is and that is the past.

I really do find it disrespectful to Bill when people say Earl and Woods are not stupid and Bill is a puppet, why do you think they are shareholders? Who brought them in? Bill is as bright as either of them in my opinion.

The two other main shareholders are purely that shareholders who acquired shares at the right time and will make a substantial profit at some point. I am not sure they offer much or do much from an operational perspective at all, nor from any liability perspectives, apart from their own.

Bill for that matter has taken risks and has kept us in the fight at the very least; yes, more debt on the club but, from what I can see, manageable debt today and that is something compared to other clubs.

He has appointed some good managers and the club today is as vibrant as it's been for years due to some good operational management changes by Robert and overseen by the Board.

Yes, we do not have many assets to shout about but we are a force; if it was not for the two losses against Chelsea and Tottenham (teams who spend a fortune), which we dominated and should have won, we would be in the hunt for the title.

It's turned into a hobby horse for some to shoot this Board and it's not fair to not see another perspective. A new owner may come on board and burden his acquisition cost onto the club something I would expect Bill and his board to resist.

The answer is I am afraid we have shareholders who can invest no more; they are entitled to protect their initial investment... indeed, profiteer from it they have earned that right by investing in the first place. As far as what value they bring, I would suggest negligible, apart from Bill and his operational team, who do good work with what they have to work with and for that they deserve some credit.

It's a balance of fine margins for a club like Everton; we possibly with the current squad including current loanees with the addition of a 20million striker could qualify for the Champions League or do we as Kevin Tully suggests spend it on the start of the development of Goodison Park? Another question which you would get polarised views on. For what it's worth, I would spend it on the striker.

Paul Niklas
43 Posted 21/03/2014 at 22:26:21
Kieran that is a a big problem moving forward and one I have eluded to earlier in this thread. I was born Blue, no doubt you were, but the kids need something to hang on to. I can just see the discussion with your young ones about the Holy Trinity and Dixie Dean and we once owned Anfield followed by the first question back being "Have you seen Lionel Messi and Wayne Rooney on the new Nike advert, Dad?" And "Why are Everton never talked about on Sky Sports?

Gavin he is the Chief Executive who operates under a tight budget and with a diverse board to manage also, it's not an easy job at any club but at least he stands up and does what he can do within his remit. I never understand why people give them so much abuse when they do not know half of what they do for the club.

Jim Lloyd
44 Posted 21/03/2014 at 21:47:24
Paul, I think you're saying that we have no chance, then, of a buyer and I also think you're being a bit over simplistic in the view that you hold regarding the pull of London being the sole reason that will entice buyes, apart from, in your view, the attractiveness of Man City having a new stadium. Nor do I see that they have a more multi cultural population than Liverpool, nor do I think it matters.

There are a number of other clubs in the premiership who are not in London, nor are they particularly "sexy" have been bought and my fear is that we will, sooner or later, if this board is not bought out, leave us further and further behind.

James, in order for a manager top put some real winners on the pitch, he will need funds. You ask is it really that hard to put together a team that doesn't bottle every big game. I think it is, if your funds are limited. However, I think Roberto Martinez has improved our play considerably and given another summer or two in the job, will see us progress. But if clubs are spending 50 million on one player and we are spending less than 20 mill on all our incoming players, then it's likely to show where it matters, on the pitch.

My view is that the extremely poor record of the current board has led us to where we are now, so we are where we are. I don't know what, if any, enquiries have been made about buying our club. But it seems odd to me that one of the best supported clubs in the country, has had no enquiries if it is for sale.

Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 21/03/2014 at 22:59:23
Jim, why do you want people inquiring about Everton, mate? Just in case they're like Tan or the Venkys? Isn't it better going along the same path we are on now, because at least we have got a boyhood blue to lead us slowly into oblivion.

Look at the statistics: Bill Kenwright took over a buisness that he couldn't afford and he's had to completely asset-strip Everton just to keep the club standing still. For all the people who defend the Everton Board... Why? What have they done in the last 12 years to make us a more successful football club?

Karl Masters
46 Posted 21/03/2014 at 22:49:22
Such irony here. Do something radical? Do something different to the rest?

How about we do what every other Club has done? Redevelop our stadium! Villa, Newcastle, both landlocked sites, both Clubs winning naff all, but problems overcome by sensible, staged, PLANNED redevelopment. You can add Spurs, Chelsea pre Abramovich, Manure, even Liverpool to the list.

How did they do it? They had a plan. They did it over a number of years. They borrowed the money and they are paying it back over time, like your mortgage. As Kevin Tully alludes to, there is currently no discernible plan. We just bumble from one transfer window to another.

It's been this way since before Kenwright, but now there is so much TV money coming in, there is simply no excuse. The Board are fucking useless. If Banks are reticent to lend, then they should act as Guarantors, but they won't because carpet bagging doesn't involve long term commitment, in fact it involves very little commitment at all.

Raymond Fox
47 Posted 21/03/2014 at 23:19:48
Liverpool definitely got one up on us from a marketing point of view when they called their club Liverpool, its as if they represent the city and we represent a small part of it.
Foreign supporters are more likely to have heard of the city of Liverpool than the district of Everton! Fact.

Our biggest problem is the obvious one of we haven't enough spending power to compete with the 'money clubs'. Now you can dress that up which ever way you want, but until we do, we are never going to break this glass ceiling.

We need to be consistent challenging for the PL title, but I cant see that happening anytime soon, can you?

We are the best of the rest, which given our financial status is no mean feat!

Mike Hughes
48 Posted 21/03/2014 at 23:15:07
Paul, a thought-provoking article.

Personally, I liked "The People's Club" while I hated "the badge". The former was a spontaneous, authentic comment from DM while the latter was an ill-informed exercise in marketing futility (it wasn't based on customer needs or wants and the outcome was crap).

Everyone knows the fundamentals of football have shifted with the advent of the Premier League and the Champions League. Money was always a factor but it has been magnified now.

Football clubs are triaged into the Upper Class, Middle Class and Working Class. In George Orwell speak, we are Upper Middle Class. What will move us up?

The current top 4 have all had changes of ownership to inject fresh cash and perhaps the radical thinking that your headline requests. Organic growth seems to be a thing of the past at least in the top tier.

I was hoping that RM would be our Brian Clough, a transformational winning manager. He may still prove to be that in the next couple of seasons. But these days, without the Upper Class fundamentals, the cynic in me thinks that such a manager would be poached away pretty quickly after some short-term success.

I'm not a BK hater (dons tin hat) I was hoping he was the recent Euromillions winner but it's obvious that our glass ceiling in the Prem era is 4th. Still, I'd prefer BK to Tan or his ilk. I don't want to be an American franchise or some Russian's plaything.

We're a bit like that Malaysian Airlines scenario: gone off the radar, a bit of a mystery to solve and it's the hope that kills you.....

Colin Grierson
49 Posted 21/03/2014 at 23:13:50
If a foreign investor wanted to buy a Premier league club then I don't think it would matter too much to them which club it was. They are very unlikely to be a genuine football supporter and even less likely to be a blue.

The lure of London that is alluded to presumes they would want to move close to their chosen club. I think not and we have some nice hotels or luxury properties that would suffice.

Our history, length of time in the top flight would possibly impress a buyer but even that I think wouldn't matter.

The only thing that would matter would be the asking price and viability of any deal being done. Therefore, with Billy Bullshitter at the helm, I personally won't be holding my breath.

As for the name change, Paul, where would it all end? We would be the Trigger's broom of the football world!

Eric Myles
50 Posted 22/03/2014 at 00:04:53
"Foreign supporters are more likely to have heard of the city of Liverpool than the district of Everton! Fact."

Only in the last 40 years Raymond #269, before Shankly nobody had heard of them and the whole world knew the little suburb of Walton

Terence Leong
51 Posted 22/03/2014 at 00:58:48
As a fan from Singapore (and there are some over here), who has been one since 1984, history matters. And I'm proud and glad that we have such history.

I reckon Paul's original post is trying to get people to discuss / stretch our minds about tackling changes. However, Paul's point about not focusing on our history is a mistaken notion. We should be proud of our history, and be one that to be at the forefront of leading changes.

We have always done that, from being founder members of the Football League, the first to play with numbers on the back of the jerseys, first to have under-soil heating, one of the first (if not the first) to have a purpose-built stadium etc.

The problems we have today are a result of lack of forward planning, not because we kept harking back to a glorious past.

Derek Thomas
52 Posted 22/03/2014 at 04:49:53
Liverpool City - A Blue shirt with a liverbird badge, facing the opposite way to the RS's... yeah that'll work the magic for us.

Daft.

But on the other hand we are waiting for somebody even dafter than Boys Pen Bill to come along and take it off his hands.

So what does that make us?

We have (I hope) 3 years left of a 4-year window for Bobby to pull us up by our boot straps. Because only on field success will stop us from being Leeds in slow motion...

Paul Niklas
55 Posted 22/03/2014 at 06:44:29
Karl Masters, the money you allude to, it's a simple answer: it's called players' wages; unless somebody gets a grip on it, we will always find it difficult.
Mike Allison
56 Posted 22/03/2014 at 07:12:08
Paul, what we are is our history, our tradition. Our name and for that matter, our badge is our identity.

You say "I get the feeling that Everton fans do not really know what they want for their club." This sentence seems to make an assumption that Everton fans are a single entity and we should expect them to have a clear, unified vision. In a sense we do... but, given that it's not likely to be achieved any time soon, we need to look at which bits of that vision are the most important.

You seem to be an advocate of the 'Everton must win at all costs' school. I do not agree with you. Taken to the extreme, I'd rather Everton were relegated with only local players and an absolute hard core of dedicated support than were called Liverpool City and playing in the Champions League with some cheating disgrace of a South American providing everybody's clearest image of our club.

Of course, football is about winning. You play to win or you don't play at all. The results add up over a season to try to put you as high up a league table as possible. But in the end, football is about so much more than just winning. Football, and especially Everton, is about belonging, identity and tradition. It's about knowing you support the greatest club in the world and not giving a fuck what anyone else thinks, especially anyone who supports Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Man City. I wouldn't swap places with those clubs for all the trophies in Real Madrid's fascist bank-rolled cabinet.

If you sell it all for a trophy, what happens? The new season starts and you don't have that trophy any more. Someone else wins it, you get upset because now you think you're entitled to win just for being who you are, or because you spend the most money on wages. That may be enough for some clubs and some fans, but I expect so much more from Everton Football Club.

Paul Niklas
57 Posted 22/03/2014 at 07:33:58
Mike, I heartily agree with your penultimate paragraph; however, the preceding one I am afraid would put you in a minority of not a lot.

I actually think we may be agreeing; my post states let's be radical if we desire all of the things that come with a top four finish and a trophy-laden cabinet or be happy with what we are and what we have, with the occasional bit of excitement. I get that exciting feeling the minute I set off for the match and, when I arrive at the ground, I am in my second home.

However, when I look at it, maybe that's just a few of us and then I do really think: "Will the buyers of tomorrow and the kids of today feel the same if we do not start to give them something to look up to?"

Colin Grierson
58 Posted 22/03/2014 at 07:58:45
Couldn't agree more, Mike.
Peter Murray
59 Posted 22/03/2014 at 08:30:37
This is thinking aloud with no positive suggestions rooted in reality.
Ian Hollingworth
60 Posted 22/03/2014 at 08:43:03
I am sure the Man City fans are jealous of our obstructed view seats and the chance to swap Toure for Osman....... Yeah, right!
Ray Roche
61 Posted 22/03/2014 at 09:30:19
All this talk about a name change and that Manchester City looked attractive because they are IN Manchester with the United association and a new ground... well, there's no team called "London City" but the Lgion trangre are all attracted to London aren't they? Unless City or Utd or the Shite offer to plump up their wallets with shedloads of cash, the call of the Capitol is just too loud to resist. Hell, even West Ham attracted Tevez and Marzipano....

No, the biggest single incentive offered to footballers, particularly foreign imports who don't know nor care about history or tradition, is cash. Which is why we will struggle to attract the sort of players who gravitate towards the Etihad. Take Lukaku for instance. He appears to be intelligent and articulate as well as ambitious and has stated that he wants CL football so expects to go back to Chelsea next season. However, if Chelsea were to offer him for sale and we could afford him and offered him 200k a week, do you think his CL desires might take a back seat for a couple of seasons? I do. Our name isn't the big issue here, money is.

Gavin Ramejkis
63 Posted 22/03/2014 at 09:35:57
Paul, the shareholders haven't invested beyond their shares, they have burdened the club with the debts they are now in including the original purchase back in the days of True Blue Holdings.

As per the debts, the simplistic analysis is that the business is being ran very poorly and with little or no acumen or expansive ideas to take advantage of matchday and non-matchday income streams. Pay-day loans to operate are a desperate fallacy not the sign of a well run business. If they fail, the club fails not the individuals.

As far as Bobby Elstone is going, he is just a paid employee, there to earn a salary. As per the majority of employees anywhere in the world, he keeps his job and salary by doing as he is told; his bottom-dollar loyalty is to himself and retaining his own income nave in the extreme to believe otherwise.

Gerry Quinn
64 Posted 22/03/2014 at 09:51:58
And there was me thinking that John Houlding was an absolute tosser for attempting to get "Everton FC and Athletic Grounds Ltd" as a name for the RedShite!
Steve Carse
65 Posted 22/03/2014 at 10:23:07
Change the name to Liverpool City.....

I agree it's certainly worked for that worldwide brand, Birmingham City.......

Frank Boyle
66 Posted 22/03/2014 at 10:45:44
Liverpool City used to play Rugby League at Knotty Ash!
Bill Griffiths
67 Posted 22/03/2014 at 11:40:33
Well said, Mike. I’m 63 years old and have ever only supported Everton and would and have never considered supporting any other team during our lean periods.

I support Everton because I absolutely love them, their history and everything they stand for. While I would like them to win some more league titles or trophies, it is not and has never been the be-all and end-all for myself.

Though I am totally depressed whenever we lose or even sometimes draw, I still love The Blues and though I have said on many occasions "never again" the love always returns the next day. I would rather the club slide slowly into oblivion rather than change their name or sell their soul like some clubs have done.

Many may think that I’m totally ridiculous in this thinking, but I love Everton for who and what they are and, if this ceased to be, I’d rather abandon all interest in football rather than switch allegiance to some wealthy club just because they have a better chance of winning something.

Here’s hoping Roberto is going to get us through that glass ceiling.

Adam Smith
68 Posted 22/03/2014 at 11:20:33
Paul, I understand that with this article you are trying to create a polemic, or straw-poll to gauge how receptive Evertonians would be to change... change which could help our commercial prospects, but to me this is totally misguided.

I do agree that, as a group, we can be frustratingly small-minded sometimes, an example being when DM departed in the summer and so many fans and former players were touting Stubbs, Weir, Neville et al, to be our next manager as they 'understood the club'. This is an example of the small club mentality that could hold us back, as it does not allow us to change a national and international perception of a club that, for years now, has been associated with direct and often (but not always) uninspiring football.

Like him or loathe him, the appointment of RM has gone a long way to change this public perception of us. I have heard many fans of other clubs refer to us, both privately and publicly as 'a very good team' something that, even though intrinsically we're only slightly better off in the table, was never really said of us before. This goes a long way towards improving our 'brand'!

Commercially, most of us on here would totally agree that the way the club is run is often farcical and a cause for a great deal of concern. The way to rectify this, however, is NOT through a name change.

Hull's chairman has the belief (misguided in my opinion) that adding 'Tigers' to the name may attract investment. If you are promoting a similar level of change at Everton, well the Hull chairman claimed that it was the word 'City' that cheapened his brand globally, as there are many other teams with 'City' in their name. There are no other Evertons (in this country, my Chilean counterparts!), so we are commercially unique. Therefore, even if you like what he is trying to do, 'Liverpool City' would not be the answer.

Also, despite what you say, people have heard of us across the globe. We may like to denigrate our team these days and make out we are a small club purely because we are not what we once were, but we are still one of THE great clubs of English football and people know that. Twenty years ago, people in France, Italy, America, Mexico; in fact everywhere I've ever been have heard of us and that was before the major exposure the PL gets in the 21st century.

The problem is that even more people know Liverpool (because of their success, not their name!), so, if we were to incorporate 'Liverpool' into our name now, it would make us a laughing stock as we would clearly be hanging onto the coattails of our more famous rivals. We are not unknown, or small; unfortunately Liverpool are just more famous don't downplay the successes of our club because they have had more!

The badge thing is important because, as was said above, our history is our US, and many new fans in America and the like are attracted because of our traditions. People like Deulofeu have commented on our impressive history too, so this furthers my point!

When I was in Germany recently, I noticed how, despite the fact the Bundesliga is a great league, shit nearly all of the club crests were mostly devoid of a traditional look. People globally look to the Premier League as a bastion of the traditions of football, where some of the world's oldest clubs ply their trade that is one of the things they like about it and we are one of those clubs, so we should use that to our advantage.

When City, Arsenal and the Shite have redesigned their crests recently, they have modernised but still maintained an air of tradition therefore, a clever redesign. We, on the other hand, ended up with a badge that looks like it was designed by a child who had been inspired by the badges he'd seen in his stickerbook of the J-League! It was a cock-up that sold the club short. We were not opposed to redeveloping the badge, but it should look sleek and modern whilst still conveying heritage that was the problem I think most of us had with it!!

In short, we can sort out our commercial activities by not having a club run by clowns, but rather by people who can make the most out of what they have to build something even better. That is what a good football manager must do and I believe we have one of those now; let's just sort the Board out before we try and rip the heart and soul out of our club, eh?!

Paul David
69 Posted 22/03/2014 at 12:23:06
Identity is everything, I'd rather stay as we are than sell our soul for success.
David Chait
70 Posted 22/03/2014 at 17:37:09
Enjoyed this article and debate as I like us to challenge our thinking and this history mentality we have! History can also be what we create not just what has come before us...

I told a story on here about the ironic story of a girl who decided to support Liverpool because she loved the Beatles.... I couldn't tell you the number of times I've told football fans that Everton is in Liverpool. People don't care and, unless they are proper fans, don't notice. I'm not in the UK, as an add on to that.

Lyndon persuaded me we mustn't change and put together the best argument for me. I did propose a few seasons ago something even more abhorrent... A merger of Liverpool and Everton!

In 100 years from now, it would be remembered as a seminal moment in the city's history bringing together families and creating a world football power! Should all cities consolidate their teams at the same time... Yes, if they want to build a bigger power base. But that's not what our club and football should be about. But could you imagine!

Mike Hughes
71 Posted 22/03/2014 at 19:09:22
David #369 - a merger of Everton and Liverpool? Sorry but that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on here. I'd rather merge with the Taliban that that shower of shite.
Andy Crooks
72 Posted 22/03/2014 at 19:55:37
Paul # 230. What is the relevance of how other founder members are doing? Can you really not see that being at the beginning of football has some relevance in marketing the club?
Derek Thomas
74 Posted 23/03/2014 at 00:43:47
We were World Soccer Team of the Year in 85; around that time, Widnes were Rugby League World Champions... then came the so called Super League and the franchises sky etc.

Money men's verdict: there are too many teams in such a small catchment area or some such... Widnes will have to merge with bitterest rivals Warrington.

"Sod that for a game of solders" said Widnes and knowingly walked out like Capt Oates.

If it ever came to something similar, I hope the collective 'We' have half the guts they had...


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