Goodison Forever

He might be right but we pretty much sell out now and there must be thousands who donÂ’t bother forking out for the restricted views. Nil satis no longer seems to apply and I find that the most depressing thing of all.

If we had just got on with Kings Dock or redeveloping Goodison it would all have been done and paid for by now. There has to be a leap of faith at some point.

Jesus Fucking Christ: 㿍m extra TV money a season and rising. You could pay for a 𧶀m stadium in 7 years easily!! How much less of a risk does it have to be? Over simplifying it I know, but sometimes you have to just get on with it.

Given GoodisonÂ’s age I hope they redevelop it but I still cannot for the life of me believe the money isnÂ’t available unless the present regime borrowed to the max against the club.

It can be done in phases and as Karl rightly points out, the increase in TV revenue surely can assist in the financing of such a venture.

If weÂ’re friendly with our neighbors on an executive level, BK would do well to reach out to Mr. Henry and New England Sports Ventures and inquire about how they redeveloped Fenway Park.

ItÂ’s the model for us. Fenway here in the States is THE Cathedral not only of baseball but of North American sports.

Goodison is THE Cathedral of footy in England. A redevelopment is the way forward - and we can follow the Fenway model and pay homage to our home and our past.

If youÂ’ve never been to Fenway you may think this folly. But one visit to the Boston Palace of Sport and youÂ’ll see the parallels of where Fenway was before redevelopment, where it is now, and where Goodison is present day and what it can become with some TLC.

Goodison is a gem that just needs polishing - same way Fenway Park was.

Admittedly millions of dollars of polishing, but surely with increased TV revenues we can finance this on a long-term basis without killing our ability to compete on the pitch.

If the CEO is more or less stating that WHP is realistically as far in the future as KD is in the past, then The Board, The Chairman and by implication anybody who has Â’ backedÂ’ The Chairman, must see the Â’ Big Payday Â’ is likewise.

Somebody must decide wtf to do now that the shares are just so many pieces of paper, that nominally may be worth 1, 1.5 or 2 thousand pound, but only if somebody e.g. a Â’ bigger fool Â’ will give you that much for them.

How long before some one cries Â’ IÂ’m an Investor, get me out of here.Â’

As always with Everton, on and off the field, plenty of questions.

Any answers Bill??

The extra money didnÂ’t go on player salaries as that percentage to income fell.

It didnÂ’t go on reducing debt as that increased!

WhereÂ’s the telly money Bill??

Would it not be possible to take inspiration of both these cases.....renovate Goodison even with the space restrictions? Could a long-term plan not be envisaged for this, like the GAA did...over 5 or 6 years or something?

IÂ’ve often wondered why this hasnÂ’t been an option for Goodison.

Just an idea from someone who isnÂ’t an expert !

In the absence of a well-funded major city centre stadium development, I think it is very difficult to argue against the redevelopment option.

There is a whole spectrum of approaches that could completely transform Goodison..... and itÂ’s difficult to understand how this has been dismissed out of hand throughout.

Robert Elstone couldÂ’ve wrote those notes a year ago..... or 8 yrs ago. HeÂ’s only saying what weÂ’ve been saying for yrs........ farcical!

I would be all for a city centre stadium but am against sharing. I donÂ’t believe that it is really possible to rationalise two identities within one structure..... hence the reason why all the well known shared arrangements are currently falling apart. IÂ’m also not sure that both clubs have the same requirements in terms of capacity etc.

The Neville article is just more Mancunian based poison.... With just enough plausible content to carry it. Little more In my opinion.

But with what money is coming into the game, and will be in the next 4 years, how the hell can this board not put some aside to put towards a new stadium or a redevelopment?!

Lyndon was saying there that by 2016 the extra income from TV is going to be around 㿼m plus! How can we not save say 50% of that each season to put toward a new stadium? In 3-4 years time youÂ’d have around 𧶀m easy! And still be able to pay wages and squad build. I know fees and wages will go up but can anyone honestly see us forking out sums like we did for Rom on a regular basis or start paying players around 𧴜K a week, cos I canÂ’t. WeÂ’ll still go and cut or cloth accordingly regardless!

The way Elstone is going on it sounds to me like our board wants everyone else to pay the bulk of the money for a new stadium and us pay as little as possible and itÂ’s not going to happen.

This board want to get there arse into gear and either get a new stadium built or redevelop Goodison and at least put us on the front foot to a brighter future or fucking do one cos there a waste of space at the minute!

Anfield and Goodison Park have been witness to some of the finest football teams in the history of the game and are every bit as important as Wembley or any other English stadiums you care to mention. Football is not all about the money and the facilities on offer; if it was, Goodison would have remained half-empty for the best part of the last 20 years. Passion for the club has helped Everton to survive and at times thrive in the top-flight of English Football for well over a century and it will be that passion that will keep it there and hopefully see it rise up in the future.

It is difficult as always to argue with the bean-counters as they often produce figures which support the arguments that the risks are too great or the rewards are too little. There are so many things in life that cannot be calculated or given a monetary value.

Unfortunately, football has become another commodity which the accountants and investors see as a way of making money out of and clubs similar to Everton are seen as irrelevant, but they are wrong, people on Merseyside love the game and they love their clubs and that is why both clubs will be relevant in the future no matter what logic may tell you.

Everton FC have to find a way to develop in the next decade and if the people in charge really care about the future of the club they will somehow have to re-engage the fan-base in a more pro-active manner and start to see the supporters as something more than customers and tap into the passion.

The fans, as long as the club is being honest with them, will always go out of their way to support the club, unfortunately the present day owners disregard the supporters as a hindrance when a strong leadership of the club could still utilise that support to help the club become something closer to what most fans want to see.

Too many people at Goodison for too long have forgotten that their core business is football and that means ensuring that the team that represents the club always goes onto the park intending to win and remind the players that the pride of the supporters is why they are fortunate to play for a club not rich in financial terms but rich in so many other aspects that donÂ’t show up on a balance sheet or fancy tourist brochures.

We may as a club be doomed to failure in the future, but no matter what the state of play is relating to the local economy or the wealth of the club, we are still a fan-base that will give two fingers to anybody from outside the city who thinks it is okay to disrespect us as a club or to belittle the city of our birth.

I am no businessman or accountant. But I can see that nearly every other club, including my local teams Doncaster Rovers and Rotherham United, have modern new stadia.

What is wrong with Everton, one of the biggest clubs in the country, that we canÂ’t afford to do anything other than produce half-baked plans that come to nothing? I am really angry with this board who just sit on their hands and pocket their investment proceeds, doing nothing for the club. No commercial development, no business plan, no nothing.

Everton as a club historically have been trailblazers and innovators – now we are drifting into irrelevance. If this continues we will end up like Sheffield Wednesday or Leeds United, with a great future behind us.

Our borrowings increased ٟm (p. 84), as did the amounts we owe 㾿 m (P. 84 & 83) and our interest on loans increased ٟm (p. 79) mainly on Â’other loansÂ’ which increased by a total ١m (p. 84) although the short term Â’ other loansÂ’ increased by ٦m (p. 84). IÂ’m guessing thatÂ’s thanks to the largesse of our friends in BVI??

David #29, around 𧴜m according to the accounts.

Accountants conclude "The financial results have led to the Club's net debt position as at 31 May reducing from 㿙.3m in 2013 to 㿈.1m in 2014." and I think that is probably the most accurate figure.

Eric, IÂ’m not sure where you get the 𧴜M figure from, I must be missing some small print or overlooking something obvious.

If they are in danger of becoming a provincial club according to Neville, then we definitely are a provincial club already.

Nett debt is not the amount owed, it is the amount owed after all assets have been liquidated, ie, when the Club is bankrupt.

The actual debt figure is something obvious Patrick, itÂ’s the total of creditors amounts. Company is 䀋m, Group is 𧴣m, so I picked 𧴜m as the median.

IÂ’m no accountant so IÂ’ll take your word for it, but it still doesnÂ’t explain why we are so indebted, although it seems to be the fashion these days. Apparently Swansea are debt free or so they claim canÂ’t we have people like that running our club?

The 䀆M is roughly broken down into

1) 㿂M owed under the loan we took out in 2002 (at 7.8% interest and wonÂ’t be gone until 2027!)

2) A loan of 㿁M (at 8.8% interest!) which seems to be with our friends in the BVI – this loan was about half the size before!

3) Trade creditors went up from ٧M to 㾿M – no idea whatÂ’s in this as thereÂ’s no note, didnÂ’t realise grass seeds cost that much, maybe unpaid transfers fees are booked here.

4) Social security & taxes – 㾸M

5) Remaining 㾼M odd is anyoneÂ’s guess as it falls under Â’accrualsÂ’

Our total liabilities actually increased from around 䀆M in 2013 to 𧴣M in 2014. The main loans we have increased so IÂ’m not sure where this Â’debt pay downÂ’ is coming from. The NET debt position may have come down as we had a load of cash (㾾M) compared to the previous year when we had a overdraft but we have hardly repaid any debt at all - in fact our borrowings have gone up. Only repayment I can see is the fixed 1m we have to pay on the loan we took out in 2002.

Our interest expense went up from ٢M to ٣M a year – ٣M a year on just interest with around ٠M of it disappearing to some company in the BVI owned by god knows who.

Scary thing is the signings of Barry, Lukaku and the new contracts for other players came after these accounts. 2015 accounts will be out towards the end of the year, itÂ’ll be interesting to see of the club has actually paid down any debt (ie, actually reduced the loans) or if the net debt mantra will be trotted out again.

I canÂ’t believe that in this climate of rock bottom interest rates weÂ’re paying almost 9%(!) on a 㿁M loan from the BVI – we all know that certain directors have business in the BVI, I refuse to believe thatÂ’s just a coincidence. 9%!

Anyway, the Sky money will hopefully be used wisely and not just pissed away on higher wages for the players.

I posted a comment on the Beardwood article on TWeb which goes along with LyndonÂ’s points. Redevelop GP with a expansion which is achievable but not ambitious. In that comment, I made the point that I did not see why the capacity could not be raised to 45,000 without too much upheaval.

Of course, the Park End is ripe for expansion with the potential to fill in each corner of once redeveloped. Gwladys Street and Main Stand are the difficulties in this. St Luke's is an immovable object and it would take some convincing to move the houses behind each of those two stands. This leaves the Bullens Road. The precedent has already been set on Stanley Park with the LFC PP given.

I believe that the council would be agreeable to relocating the school plus replacement new housing on a section of the Park plus as Lyndon suggested re-routing the road system accordingly. This would potentially move the capacity further forward from current 39,500 to even 48,000. Stadium construction is much simpler today but also much more imaginative. Too much time has been wasted on pipedreams. Time to put all efforts and available revenue behind redevelopment of our current home

Until we get that under control we shouldnÂ’t undertake the redevelopment project of Goodison.

But...

There should be minimally a 5- or 10-year plan to pay the debt down to an extremely manageable level with rising TV revenues, then obtain a long-term loan to redevelop Goodison.

If we don’t do that we’re kicking the proverbial bucket down the road – which unfortunately seems to be the MO of our current board.

If they have a plan in place they should enlighten supporters and the public of said plan so there isnÂ’t as much frustration.

Seems so simple... nothing ever is.

And like Thomas as shown with the link, were around 㿈m in debt. How youÂ’ve got the 𧴜M figure I donÂ’t know cos our debt was always around the 㿞-60M or less!

See DenisÂ’s post (#28) and ask yourself how economical with the truth our dear leader has been?

Jamie, our debt increased even with an additional 㿍M income last season, hopefully it wonÂ’t increase exponentially with an 㿼M increase in income.

But Bill was on telly and explained our accounts, so everything is OK; the guy who claimed he didnÂ’t know Other Operating Costs from his arse ffs.

See what I mean Denis??

Like I said, they need a 5- to 10-year plan. Whether one exists or not IÂ’ve no idea. Again, if it does they should really go public with it. Transparency would go a long, long way with supporters. Unfortunately transparency doesnÂ’t seem to be a rule with this board.

Did you read Gary NevilleÂ’s article? If not, you need to. He stated the main reason that Liverpool has lost its massive success was that it had become a parochial club while other more successful clubs worldwide had moved to bigger, better grounds or massively improved their own grounds and achieved success as a result. Liverpool did neither and have stood still in comparison. It is fair reasoning and equally applicable to Everton. I have no disagreement with most of the points that you make but none are really relevant to the points I raised.

You also have to remember that EFC is not owned by the fans that live in the city of Liverpool. The club takes itÂ’s support from a massive area including down here on the South coast and not only from Scousers who moved out. People from the old and potential EFC catchment areas now have the option to go to see successful clubs with modern, easy to get to stadiums with great facilities and over the years and have done so over the years. Nostalgia isnÂ’t what it used to be and our great history doesnÂ’t guarantee us anything but could be a burden.

IÂ’ve watched Everton with 77,000 people in the Stadium and as a successful club why couldnÂ’t we expect to see this again as Man Utd do week-in & week-out? One reason is that the current ground doesnÂ’t have the infrastructure not only to seat them and cater for them but to get them in and out. It may be that developing GP with a modest increase in capacity is basically saying that weÂ’re happy with what most regard as our current mediocrity (I donÂ’t share that view). I see a new development with leisure and retail facilities as a statement of the will to become a top club again and an essential means of providing the additional finance that we desperately need. My own view is that the lowest cost option for this would be to do it with LFC.

My wish is only to to see EFC back at the top table and development of Goodison within the constraints of its location may not do that. Funnily enough it was a major development of Goodison that saw us lose that place although we didnÂ’t see it at the time. Maybe we will never have that extra clout that is essential now to be at the top table?

IÂ’m presuming the largest of these Â’creditorsÂ’ are the playing staff whoÂ’s contracts are currently Â’knownÂ’ costs that will need to be honoured in the coming year, plus remaining payments to other clubs for transfers (a large number of which are done on a drip basis).

If that is the case then I have no doubt that these figures will increase as player salaries are going up and we have made some sizeable player buys in recent years. Arguably as someone above mentioned we may well well have to Â’creditÂ’ the season ticket holders whoÂ’s cash canÂ’t be banked 100% in accounting language until weÂ’ve fulfilled the delivery of matches.

In the same model though, surely weÂ’d have to count against these the Â’net debtorsÂ’ for the coming season as well surely? Of which the premier league is obviously relatively sizeable and then thereÂ’s the match-day revenue, sponsorships, merchandise sales, etc.

Ultimately the published accounts which are the legal (and in this era of financial fair play no doubt thoroughly checked/audited) representation of our finances and seem to pretty clearly highlight that we made a profit as a business and net debt for 2014-15 is down to 㿈M as has been suggested.

Either way I do agree that the interest percentages seem somewhat crazy on these loans compared to standard bank loans, albeit less so compared to bridging finance (which can be up to 18% p/a based on some online research).

The emotional attachment is a very powerful matter to take into hand when discussing the redevelopment of Goodison Park. Remember, we have the ashes of Evertonians buried along the touch lines.

I fear that this could lead to us falling behind clubs who presently trail us, because in my view the big winners are going to be players and agents. The million pound a week player is surely not far off and it all becomes more WWF and obscene.

I think it could be done but will require an unlikely chain of events.We will require a canny, forward thinking board that can achieve a balance between prudence and recklessness. We will require a youth system that can turn out a few gems.

Also, we will require a coach who can get the absolute maximum from every player. Most importantly, in my view, we need to start something new. Develop a youth system that has the fundamental principal that playing for Everton is the best that can happen. That an Everton player will earn enough money to be wealthy for life. Will play the game the right way. WonÂ’t cheat and will be part of something different and special, part of an Everton community that will aspire to win trophies by being the best club, not the richest.

We need people at the top to deliver us. We need another Mr John Moores who is an Evertonian and gets the Everton Way. Until then, you can join me and renew your tickets and hope to hell something turns up.

As long as footy continues as a national sport and clubs survive then HOPE will prevail and who knows in year X we may yet again be top dogs. Until then the present debate will continue on and on. Hope we win Sunday.

UP THE BLUES.

The numbers still look poor overall (our assets are 㿈M less than our liabilities) but at least they improved from 2013 – thanks to Sky.

The bridging finance is an interesting one as the BVI loan is a short term loan (I believe 12 months) but we roll it over every year. WeÂ’ve had this weird loan from the BVI for a number of years now and with the almost guaranteed windfall from Sky, you have to ask a) why do we still need it and b) if we do why not get a cheaper loan from elsewhere?

As usual more questions than answers... still, the Sky money should mean the 2015 accounts also improve on 2014.

Everton FC Co Ltd: Annual Reports

Apparently other clubs including Southampton, West Ham, Fulham and Reading have taken similar loans from Vibrac with varying degrees of value, success and continuation. However, we were officially the first to make such an agreement and seem to be the companyÂ’s chief marketing tool and advocate.

NESV (New England Sports Ventures, the business run by Henry & Co) is absolutely massive.

The Red Sox have, since their World Series in 2004, have grown immensely. Their marketing reach is gigantic. In short, they are one of the largest sports corporate entities in North America. They shit gold coins. They have the money to dump into LFC, and they are doing it aggressively. They’re using the same business model as they have with the Red Sox and their redevelopment of Fenway Park at Anfield – or at least they’re gonna try to.

Everton is tiny comparatively, hence the comparison of "theyÂ’re doing it, why canÂ’t we?" simply canÂ’t be made. We can, however, as I stated earlier, follow their model on an albeit smaller scale and longer time-frame, and improve our Club IMHO.

And I’ve said from day one when NESV took over the shite, and I have some "credibility" being a life-long Red Sox fan – these boys at NESV know what the hell they’re doing. They are excellent owners. We’d do well to learn a thing or two – inasmuch as that seems sacrilege to say in a Blue way.... I have a lifetime of experience to know if we followed their model on a longer time-frame and a smaller budget, we’d be better off.

Architecturally Goodison could be refurbished but after 20 years it would have further regressed in comparison to the dynamic on-field and off-field developments of not just the big six. In fact the big six donÂ’t worry me as much as the clubs who will be overtaking us: Swansea, West Ham, Spurs, Southampton, Sunderland, Leeds, etc. All these clubs have a commonality: new stadiums and young fresh boardroom styles. Goodison, which I remember fondly, will even if refurbished, perhaps even more so, become a lovely millstone around our necks in the longer term.

I think you can scratch Leeds off that list.

KingÂ’s Dock was the real opportunity that got away. That really could have been a stunning stadium, and what a statement of intent! ItÂ’s also something that might actually have seen the light of day, were it not for True Blue KenwrightÂ’s desire to keep full control of the club at all costs.

Next best after that is redeveloping Goodison. It has been for ten years. Where thereÂ’s a will, thereÂ’s a way. We just have a shit board.

The biggest issue is the players wages in my opinion – lottery winning numbered contracts thrown around like confetti to, at best, average players. Whilst Everton are still a huge club in a traditional sense, I’m afraid we are so far behind in inventive merchandise exercises and revenue, it's alarming.

Sky fund the majority of PL teams and thatÂ’s was the vision for them 20 plus years ago. Make the clubs reliant on this revenue every year and you have cracked it! Whoever gets relegated is irrelevant to them, the next mug has just been promoted, so they give not a shit. Abhorent, but quite brilliant marketing.

The Premier League is now truly global and the monies earnÂ’t as profit by Sky would dwarf their outlay on the PL.

I hope Sky fuck off soon and take their favourites to the Euro Super League with them and we can have our football back.

Good luck today Blues

Hicks and Gillette done a great job in trying to destroy them but they have a worldwide fan base and the amount of people that travel great distances to watch them play is astonishing.

I genuinely think Kenwright's reign at Everton is very similar to those loveable Yanks I mentioned above. Only difference to me is that everything has been done on a smaller scale.

Everton are now amongst that august bunch of dinosaur clubs like Aston Villa, Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds Utd who were once great and powerful football institutions but are now looked down upon by the sycophantic and condescending media with a tinge of sadness and nostalgia.

We have a dilapidated stadium, in a dilapidated area, with no income other than the pittance we get in from gate money and the Murdoch millions. Let's be honest, we are one of the worst run clubs in the league, despite the non-stop media campaign telling us how lucky we are to have Boys Pen Bill running the club, Fucking amateurs the lot of them and criminal amateurs to boot.

We need a journo like Chris Bascombe (Daily Telegraph) who writes virtually every day a column about his beloved Redshite but who, at the same time, exposes to the world the shortcomings of Brenda and the RS board. BKÂ’s got no one in the media who will call him to task like that. All the journos around him are a load of fawning, backslapping, brown-nosing, syphilitic toadies who are quite happy to receive free theatre tickets to keep quiet and promote the image of Chairman fucking Bill. Makes me sick.

Still doesn’t answer the question of why we need this loan every year when we’re getting tons of money from Sky – surely at some point they can do without it.

Your article is well reasoned and I fully agree with every word of it - it is now up to the powers that be to stop phaffing around and put an acceptable, financially viable, plan into action.

Goodison is our home sweet home!

That feels like pie in the sky now, so weÂ’ll just carry on carrying on as we are, with no way to fund a new ground, and even if we did, what then? Is it really the holy grail? Will be get the big bucks and big players? Probably not.

Never mind the fact that at some point the stadium will fail its safety certificate and who knows how much longer the sky bonanza will go on for - they know they messed up with the last bid vastly over bidding, cannot see them making the same mistake twice in a couple of years time.

Anyway - it seems most fans are not too bothered/apathetic about anything to do with off field matters so I doubt anything significant will change in the next year or two and/or as long as BK is still around.

In two years IÂ’ll probably we writing the same post again.

We will be faced with a status Quo situation until that last vestige of misguided admiration is exposed with the emperor stripped of his tawdry robes of self indulgence. Tonight would be a great opportunity to let the football world and its tame media know exactly what the Everton supporter base thinks about Boys Pen Bill.

That wonÂ’t happen because it requires balls those damn Kopites have cornered the market.

Bill, lead us or get the hell out of it.

In fact, I wrote the same thing on here probably 5/7 years ago and weÂ’re still here. WeÂ’ll probably be saying the same thing in another 5 years...

2. If you want to give yourself a fright, look up Vibrac on Wikipedia, especially the section headed Â’ReadingÂ’.

3. I thought that Gary NevilleÂ’s piece was thoughtful and well-researched, until I got to the bit where he said Andy Burnham MP was a passionate LFC fan!

IÂ’m sure thereÂ’s a complex engineering solution, but IÂ’m also pretty sure it would be cheaper to demolish it and rebuild. Yet more short-sightedness from an Everton Board.

One of the key features of the WHP proposal was for a large single-tier home end.... bigger than the Kop. The Parkend could readily be extended to achieve this.... with the obvious added bonus that half of it is already there, and paid for. This could be done anytime, and probably for less than £3k per seat. Giving 44-47,000 capacity (dependent on size of extension) for less than £18m, with a dramatic effect on the stadium and the atmosphere. More new capacity could then be added on the Bullens Rd side in later phases..... and all for significantly less than having to find funds for a whole new stadium elsewhere.... with all the associated risks.

IF there is enough evidence to say that the people of Everton would be happy about thousands more football fans parking and walking past their homes every two week;

IF there is enough transport and parking to suit a 50% increase in capacity considering there are already restrictions for miles;

IF we can INCREASE the footprint at least twofold to provide similar space to our rivals – which means demolishing most of GP and moving the pitch rather than destroying the homes of many dozens of people....

THEN by all means please develop Goodison as it will then enable us to compete on a more equal footing with those above us in at least one context. However, apart from the location, how much of Goodison Park would be left?

Tom #77, my gut guestimate posted the other week was around 㾻m for a Park End so IÂ’m glad to hear I wasnÂ’t too far out. IÂ’m sure youÂ’re 㾾m is much better researched than my gut and it sounds very doable given itÂ’s only around half the current increase in telly money income, and 1/4 the future increase.

If only the board could ring fence the funds and they could start as early as the end of next season.

Acreage alone doesnÂ’t define the quality of the stadium. In fact, confinement has prompted some of the finest stadiums in the world, and indeed led EvertonÂ’s founding fathers to innovate, creating one of the largest and certainly the best club stadium in the country.... All on one of the smallest sites.

By having to only add say 15,000 new seats at GP.... these seats can all be high to premium quality with supporting infrastructure. Circulation can also take place on two levels to offset any spacial limitations if necessary, as occurs elsewhere.

The result can be far from mediocre... shouting history, tradition and quality on all sides and preserving the intimacy, short viewing-distances, high number of elevated views that only a multi-tier stadium can.... something GP is famed for..... but on a grander scale. WHP promised none of this.

LFC are planning for a 60k stadium so our 50k is well within limits. Especially as GP is marginally better served by public transport, so I donÂ’t see a 25% capacity increase infringing excessively on the local community... and certainly no more than a stadium at a new suburban site, with less public transport serving it and where the local community has never had to accept it.