Howard beaten by simple headers

Something obviously gone off behind the scenes to leave our one, true match-winner constantly out of the team?

Whatever it is Roberto, it's not doing us any good. This man deserves to be in the team every week.

Extremely annoying and frustrating in equal measure.

Lennon and Deulofeu need to put in a shift today, as does Barkley. Coleman needs to sharpen up his defensive game. Lukaku needs to be on his game. This set-up (to me) does not look balanced. Why is Kone not up front with Lukaku? And what is wrong with Mirallas? So many questions...

And I have a feeling that we will get no answers today. But... and there is always a but.. I just hope that we do not leave our playing until it is all to late. As we usually do. COYBs.

We concede two goals yet again through Howard's lack of ability to dominate his 6-yard box never mind his area, but he doesn't have to worry about that because the back up keeper Martinez signed can barely be classed as a professional footballer, never mind a keeper.

Lukaku continues to walk around up front, presumably to match the pace and commitment of Deulofeu, but again, he doesn't have to worry as Martinez hasn't signed back-up strikers unless you count two youngsters that don't even make the bench.

Then we have something we used to be awesome at and feared for: set-pieces. I've never seen an Everton side that look so confused, scared and like they generally don't know what to do when it comes to defending a corner!!! Throw-ins, are they instructed in training to all just stand still and watch the throw-taker!?!?!

We look amateurish, scared and out of our depth; the least I expect is we go out with a little fire in our belly, a gameplan, organisation and that we play to our potential

Howard is a has-been, a total flapper. Guaranteed to give the opposition a goal. Doesn't command his 6-yard box, let alone the penalty area. Gives no confidence to the fans let alone his defence, but Roberto thinks the sun shines out of his proverbial.

And why on earth did he give Mirallas a contract, to get splinters in his arse on the bench?

I still believe Martinez is full of crap, bluffer, just like Brenda, who's already departed. Hopefully another Swansea bluff merchant is right behind him.

How can our defence play with confidence, with the worst keeper in the Premier League behind them? The only person who 'can't ' see this is Martinez.

Oh, and Howard is crap.

Kone on at 88 minutes? That's the sort of nonsense that really worries me about Martinez.

Howard has become a real liability, his distribution is piss poor, he stays stuck to his line, he can't command his 6-yard box, never mind his area.

On about 70 minutes we played a ball into their box and Cech came 12 yards out to collect it, Howard has never come 12 yards out in his life!

We persist in playing the ball back to Howard who waits until the forward has closed him down before hoofing it into the stands. The central defenders are partly to blame, playing it back to him as often as they do, but if we can see it, why can't they?

Funes Mori looks a good player and we look better with him at the back.

Deulofeu terrorised Arsenal today, and they're top of the league tonight.

Jags is also a liability. So many chances to make something happen only to lose it.

On the plus side, our new defender looks class.

Again he's cost us points, unlike their goalie who saved them 2 points. He is clearly an overwhelming liability... WTF is Martinez thinking?!

I thought we did well in the second half. 100% better than last week.

Winnable games now and we need to take the positives from today and push on.

Okay, Stones lost Giroud but for fuck's sake, Howard could see everything happening and should have been out. The second goal was a total flap. We have to make a goalie a priority next window.

It's shocking to watch, and it was no wonder Giroud started. It's a weakness that needs to be addressed immediately. Our boys don't mark well in the box and get dominated. They actually look terrified when the opposition put corners in. Maybe Funes Mori will fair better.

Howard could do much better, but he isn't the only one at fault.

He can't command his 6-yard box, and never could. I think the problem is, like in some other areas, we need a lot of money to get the top class players we need.

All-in-all, though, I think we did fairly well today. Mirallas was a lucky man today. He could have been sent off yet again... daft!

The rest of the lads, Brendan especially. Well done

We have suffered long enough under the directorship of Blue Bill. We are slowly sinking without a doubt. Massive changes needed or the likes of Galloway, Stones and Barkley will be off. I for one wouldn't fucking blame them. Mid-table beckons. Bring it on.

Look's like another shite season in store for us. I will support them through thick and thin but I expect to see something in return. The majority of our players just aren't good enough. Simple as....

Jags didn't help today either. I thought he hasn't looked the same since the England captaincy.

For me Gareth Barry was outstanding and kept us together tonight. I don't know who is going to provide any leadership if him and Jags are out next game.

So disappointed with Martinez. He never seems to learn and should have addressed the goalkeeping situation a long time ago.

The backline looks worryingly inexperienced if he is out. With Barry suspended, Howard flapping and Jags and Baines out too, clean sheets might be hard to come by.

Martinez is still struggling to organise the defence. We left too much space behind the full backs and were opened up many times from wide areas.

Going forward, at least, we appear to have real drive back in the team. There was some good sharp interplay today. I just hope we maintain that as otherwise we are in for embarrassment against relegation fodder.

Up next: Sunderland, our bogey team.

Arsenal are a good team so you need to be on it – and we weren't – either at the back or the front. But you can see there's a good team in there somewhere... just a couple of tweaks and a run of wins...

It's no good starting to take the game to the opposition when we're two behind. We look disorganised and anything good that happens seems to happen by accident. We lack coherence and precision and while we should stay calm and look at the wider perspective, there are some concerning signs of a return to the directionless stuff of last season.

The next run of "easier" games needs to produce some proper points.

Everton effectively play without a goalkeeper and that is unforgivably defective management. Roberto should be dismissed for that alone. Enough is enough, it is just an embarrassment and every opposition manager seeks to exploit the situation.

Impressed with Funes Mori tonight and the all round effort. Barry had a really good game but perhaps he will benefit from the enforced rest. Perhaps we will see more of Gibson in the next couple of weeks? COYB

Ozil and Cazorla ran the show and were given a free run by the heavy-legged Barry and McCarthy. Arsenal cleverly exploited Jags lack of height with the crosses for the two goals, but with a keeper like that, who plays like a frightened rabbit when the ball comes at him above head height, we are sunk.

It's clear that Howard played most of his football on artificial surfaces in his youth, and in five-a-side type games, because he plays like that now. Relatively strong on the one-on-one confrontations, saving with his legs etc, but simply appalling when commanding his 6-yard box in the air.

I've always said that a keeper who has allegedly played for 10 years at the top should be really battle scarred if he had been doing his job properly. Tim Howard is too much of a pretty boy. Urgent replacement needed.

Howard is not good enough on crosses though he made some decent saves with his feet. He is certainly not a top 4 keeper.

Generally I was quite depressed at half-time but much happier after the second 45. We showed a bit more fight and hunger and in the end were perhaps unfortunate not to get a point. We certainly didn't crumple as we have before against Arsenal.

Most would've expected 1 or 0 points tonight. The real crunch is moving forwards. We now have a run of winnable games to get back up the table and, though I'm not feeling much love for RM presently, I'm gonna wait another few games at least before shooting my mouth off.

Yes, we are supposed to have had 10 tough games but we have dropped 17 points from them games and this is supposed to be our strongest squad for years.

The problem remains... that, if you have a strong squad that will not perform to their supposed potential, then there is only one person to blame... and that is the Manager.

Martinez is starting to show his poor tactical abilities, that – without a really strong improvement – will result in loosing a number of our better young players and we'll be left with the deadwood, that should have been let go a long time ago.

Deulofeu, impressed me with some of his passing, and I would like to see him play inside. Take away some of the defensive responsibility from him until he matures, and let the kid just play on the offensive.

I can't agree with you about Barry, Jay, he's a good player but the game is just too fast for him, and has been for a long time against the better teams.

We only need one defensive midfielder, and McCarthy is the best in the business at this role. Play Barkley next to him, because he can get forward, and let McCarthy, do what he's best at, which is breaking things up, and giving it simple so the better players, can play.

'If' is a very big word... but if we could pick the right team, and play without fear, we could be a match for anyone. IF ONLY!

Dave has just said it. He is a good solid defender who goes for the ball, no matter who's in the way. Him and Stonesy will do us alright and with Brendan playing so well on the left, and Seamus not back to his best but doing okay, the defence looks fairly solid.

I'm hoping that Robles will come on for the Norwich game, as I think the defence is okay.

In the midfield, when Barry has to miss his match, it'll be interesting, as there's Tom and Darren, ready to come in. I think we need to have someone more creative in the midfield, and either of them can set attacks going with their passing.

Why can't he manage to see that the entire defence is shite every time a cross comes in, this season and last?

Why can't he manage to see that faffing about with the ball in our own half is manna from heaven to our opponents, who are thereby able to stroll back to defend in depth, in every game we play?

Why can't he manage to see that at the core of every team aspiring to win you need pace and goal scorers, on the field, not on the bench?

Why does he manage to squander a minute or so, right at the death, giving Kone endless instructions for the four minutes remaining?

And lastly, when are any of these pennies gonna drop in his not so phenomenal mind?

Not an easy game for Brendan but again he didn't disgrace himself. A big plus. Some suspicion about Stones's positioning for one of the goals but otherwise imposing. Funes Mori again looking good. A good shift by Lennon in a defensive role and going forward. Deulofeu again disappointing – if he can't get to the byline, he's stuffed.

That probably sums up how far behind the top clubs we are. Money is the problem and always will be, hence the big gulf in class.

Wish I could see a way out it but there isn't one, is there?

He was responsible today for messing up several promising positions and he needs to get his head sorted out asap. Incredibly frustrating.

Meanwhile, Coleman was one of our better players today but still needs to lose a stone. Kev has put a bit on as well sitting on the bench. Details like that say a lot about the backroom focus, or the lack of it.

As for the goalie... he needs to practice with his defenders. Their goals were caused by Howard and the 2 centre halves.

I do like Funes Mori though.

That would involve not waiting until we have conceded one or two goals. Nor would it involve having to make substitutes in order to play with the team that many of us believe we should have started with.

This approach may, of course, require a rousing 'go and get them' team talk from the manager rather than a 'be in a good moment; enjoy your football and keep possession and the goals will come' team talk.

On second thoughts let's not rock the boat. We have some incredible players, many of whom are in incredible moments and are ready to help the team.

Cynicism - not from me mate. I'm just a season ticket holder who has to watch the same lacklustre performance week after week where shots on goal can be counted – if your lucky – on one hand.

Arsenal's first goal was similar to one Kane scored at Goodison last season. A cross from deep should not be a one-touch header for a CF to score a goal – the two CBs and the GK should be able and organised to easily deal with it. EASILY I say. I am only a fan, but I know this.

Their 2nd stemmed from a lack of composure after conceding the 1st and classic "fannying around at the back" leading to the free-kick.

RM, please get a defensive coach in.

I said this on the forum but come January we have got to scour the earth for a top class keeper and break the bank to get him. When was the last team to win anything with a liability of a goalie, and think about who we had between the sticks in our glory years-if that would've been Big Nev today Giroud would've been seeing stars somewhere aroud the penalty spot.

But on the plus points we didn't fold and finished the stronger team, plus if we're going to play with 2 DM we need Kev & Del to give us attacking threat.

But the real problem is the man in charge, he isn't good enough by a long way. We are chasing a game yet his reluctance to bring on Kone or Mirallas says it all. Lennon looks busy but produces very little, never did it during his Spurs career and he is at an age that improvement is unlikely. Seems no matter how ineffectual Lukaku or Barkley are he refuses to admit that they can have a bad game so are rarely replaced.

RMs style is so negative, I believe we have some decent players and if we had a manager with a more attacking style we could actually challenge for a top 6 place. Every game starts the same way slow passing in and around the back four and midfield. We make more sideways and backward passes than any other Everton team I have ever watched and that stretches back to when Johnny Carey was our manager.

If anyone thinks Funes Mori will be able to shore that defence up, they are totally mistaken, Robles or Howard against Norwich will be a disaster and our other three bright sparks, Coleman, Stones and even young Galloway had bad nights.

Midfield, Barry at 42 whatever he is, was still the pick of the bunch. Deulofeu flatters to deceive, Barkley is drifting back to his form from last season and Lukaku must wonder where his next chance is coming from.

I don't see anything other than a slide to 13-16th place, how the hell we've let the likes of Palace, West Ham and Leicester overtake us needs to be looked at by Bill and his board.

£8M on Deulofeu and Lennon is a crime.

Perhaps I expect too much, but I do think we should be doing better. We are predictable from the back to the front and teams have worked us out. Unless the manager changes this, we will be mid table at best! The manager is trying to play from the back with a slow tempo. It's not working. Change it!

Meanwhile, I do believe he is building for the long-term future in the absence of proper investment for the here and now. However, he has to realize that Howard could cost him his job if he doesn't take control of the goalkeeping problem sooner rather than later. Howard is the worst keeper in the league by a country mile, and no team in the country could win a trophy playing him.

Just think the system needs changing, right away, and we don't need two players sitting so deep. Barry plays there because, the games to fast for him higher up the pitch, and McCarthy plays next to him, so his lack of pace doesn't get so exposed.

That's the way I see it anyway, but I forgot about Cleverley. Either way, I just want to see my team, play in a much more positive manner, higher up the pitch. Instead of sitting deep, isolating our only forward, and waiting for things to happen. They are a very good team, Arsenal... but who knows how the game would have panned out if Everton would have had a proper go from the start?

That first half was disgusting from an attacking point of view, yet we looked like we could create from the 70-minute mark onwards. I don't understand the caution myself, and always thought it was better to go down with a real fight, instead of only opening up because we were losing.

The Tactics Are Just Not Helping Us At All.

I think that Tim is an excellent goalie in some situations and makes some world class saves. The bread and butter stuff though, I think that leaves him with a lot to be desired.

Even in Moysie's day, with all eleven in the box, it was heart-in-the-mouth time at free kicks and corners with Tim Howard. Whether we can afford a top class replacement though, is another matter. If he decides to go over to the MLS.

Maybe I'm being unfair to Robles, as he gave a decent account of himself when he came into the team for some matches (6?)

It, isn't so much that we have a poor defence, I think we have a good one. And with no reflection on Jagielka, I hope he has a few weeks to rest his knee. I think Ramiro is a top class defender, but he also has that "presence" in and around the box and takes no prisoners.

Midfield/Forwards? Well, we've got a lot to choose from but to get the best and most effective six is a debate all on it's own I think.

I guarantee Martinez will blame the defence for the two goals, he won't single out Howard who has to be dropped, and long overdue (if not)???

Martinez has to change it for the Norwich match, and with Barry suspended, play McCarthy in his proper position (defensive midfielder), and play Cleverley or Gibson further forward. It's time to get rid of his rigid and unbalanced formation, once and for all. Playing two right-wingers is never going to work.

I have just finished watching the (recorded) game, as I got home late, and after doing a Likely Lads I sat down, without much hope, to watch it. We are so totally fucking reactive!! Shouldn't we just start off two goals down so we might actually start a game with some urgency? And as for Tim Howard, what a fucking embarrassment he's become. He's absolutely useless and should hang up his boots. As for our "defenders" I think they won their 1st header in the 2nd half!!!

Brilliant performances by Geri and Ross but the rest were poor to shite. Sorry boss, you might get out of jail with the next three opponents but this slow, uninterested, lackadaisical approach to games is killing us. Good team, good players but no fucking spirit.

More goals conceded with Tim Howard refusing to attack the ball and claim it in HIS area. However, Jags was equally culpable for the opening goal. The recent Captain of England should not allow the opposition striker to sneak in behind him so easily.

We got lucky with Barkley's deflected goal but it's about time we had a sniff of good fortune. We couldn't make it count though with Galloway, Gerry and Rom all wasting golden opportunities to equalise.

Mirallas and Kone should've come on MUCH earlier. Kev in particular is one of our only players with a real "winning mentality", I feel.

Also, when Kone's on the pitch, it takes a lot of pressure off Rom who becomes too isolated playing as a lone striker.

I thought that, despite having a magnificent start to the season, young Brendan's inexperience has really shown in the last two games. Funes Mori once again was very impressive when he came on. We can take positives from our second half performance but unfortunately, as Michael states, on this occasion it was too little, too late.

You're right lack of leaders on the pitch is one of our problems. I believe this is another deficiency displayed Martinez where he fails to understand the importance of the single minded combative drive on the pitch. He has failed to buy a player who displays this quality.

However more than anything I beieve we need a manager who is less intent on keeping possession or whatever it is he believes in and develops the ability to convince his team that wins at pretty much any cost are what matters.

We can play pretty football but have next to no dynamism which makes much of our possession redundant. After their midweek exertions Arsenal should've been dreading our arrival but instead got their annual warm down, back home by 8pm unruffled and coiffured, cosying up with their poodles in the heart of Primrose Hill, just in time for X-Factor.

Very, very average.

Every other team in the Premier League know to dink the ball into the 6-yard box and the likelihood of them scoring far outweighs Howard getting the ball.

He needs to be dropped now. What a joke for him to be given the captain's armband. Un(fuckin)believable.

Romelu worked his socks off today although I feel he should have buried that header. Geri was class, if a bit fickle at times – love his passion. Funes Mori looks a player as well, and Galloway did v well.

Overall, I don't feel that Arsenal outplayed the Everton boys; it just came down to Howard being Howard.

At least under DM there was some urgency when a goal down. Our season is over really already yet again; we won't do anything this season as the players just simply don't want to succeed.

I've seen us outclassed over the years, I've seen us play pathetically and I've seen us with lots of injuries. But nothing was worse than today's defeat, never have I seen a Everton team so happy to lose.

We just took the piss in the first half and second half. I'm not paying another penny towards Everton, when they put such little effort in. Howard needs to just fuck off back to America.

Spot on. It's all stroke, stroke, stroke. How about some punch for once? A bit of kick and run maybe? So frustrating.

Having said that after Howard's non-heroics no wonder no-ones willing to put thier neck on the line.

Pasifistas.

I thought Robles was a really poor keeper, but he was rapidly improving when Martinez dropped him last season, after three clean sheets on the bounce!?!

A good goalie should be able to command his penalty area, but Howard can't even command his six-yard box.

In our last four Premier League games, we have conceded four headers from 4 yards out.

Martinez won't get fired, Howard won't get dropped, Lukaku won't get dropped, Barry won't get dropped etc.

When there's no competition or fear of getting dropped, one naturally doesn't stay sharp and perform to their best. We shouldn't be surprised at this point. In football, competition is EVERYTHING so expect another mid-table hum-drum season.

But it is Martinez who signed and picked him to start ahead of Mirallas and it is the manager who picks two defensive midfielders and particularly Barry which leaves us deep for far too long. I bet the majority of us would pick the same front four (or five if going with one defensive midfielder) but the manager can't see it.

I want to see Besic or Cleverley playing alongside McCarthy to help move the play forward and get an extra man further upfield. I don't really rate Cleverley but at least he has the ability to move forward quicker and either of these two would help prevent the team from being so defensive and provide an outlet.

One thing I have to admit that I have been wrong about is saying Funes Mori, although a good player, is an unnecessary signing; we do need him until the younger defenders are ready to move into those positions.Today, he was class and to be honest I was glad to see Jags go off as he couldn't stop passing to an Arsenal player.

Two thing's that did seem obvious today were that in tight situations they were a lot better at passing amongst each other and getting out of trouble, almost like they didn't have to think about it, and that all their passes, long or short, reached their players.

Although, in the second half, we did apply pressure, and at times it was quite exciting, it was typical Everton and the same old scenario, bringing on the players that should've started far to late, trying to nick a win or draw in this case.

What the fuck was he doing for the first goal? Just laughable. OK, the defending was dreadful as well but his performances can no longer be defended or tolerated. He costs us 10-12 points a season and on form over the last year is probably the worst GK in the league. Easily.

We seem to have this habit of giving teams 2-goal head starts these days, I have no idea why, and we always start games so sluggishly and we only ever play our best football either when the game is lost or in the last half an hour or so. It's not good enough.

We can't continue to gift teams like Arsenal soft goals and expect to get away with it every week. It's not a one off either, it's been in 7 or 8 games in all competitions where we have conceded first. Watford, Barnsley, Man City, Reading, Liverpool, Arsenal, West Brom, Man Utd.

What if anything does Martinez say to them before they go out there? And while on the subject of Martinez, he left it far too late again with substitutions. Why put Kone on with 1 minute to go when we all knew that Arsenal would play keep ball? The game was already lost. Had he brought him on 20 minutes earlier or whatever, he could have had time to make some sort of impact at least.

Deulofeu is still as frustrating as ever. The number of times a pass was on or a chance to whip it in was there and he wasted it by either throwing himself to the floor or running into the defender trying to do it all himself was really infuriating.

Lennon, why did we sign him? He did nothing of any note whatsoever. A complete waste of money. He's average, wasn't spectacular when we had him on loan and doesn't offer anything we don't already have in the squad. Panic buy.

On the positive side, we have got the big games out of the way with a reasonably decent start (the same number of points as this time last season incidentally) so the opportunity is there to put a run together in the next 9 games or so to put ourselves in a decent position.

I think we should be a lot higher personally. We should have beaten Watford, they were definitely 2 dropped points, we absolutely battered Swansea, we should have won that comfortably, Tottenham and Liverpool were there for the taking, especially Liverpool, against one of their worst squads of recent times. We should in my view be on at least 18 points now, maybe more, which would put us in the top 4.

I'm still not at all convinced by Martinez. He is still making the same mistakes as last season and is still amazingly sticking by Howard, too sentimental. Would Ferguson or any top manager persevere week in week out with his GK after a string of poor performances and blunders? Of course not.

I guess we have to see where we are by Christmas before saying anything conclusive about RM. With the run of games we have between now and New Year, if we're not in the top 8 by then, Martinez should be coming under more scrutiny.

I think now, Tim Howard is more under the spotlight because we don't have 10 men back as often as Moyes used to. I thought Moyes was a negative manager and maybe he was right to be, (knife to gunfight, thankful to get out alive etc) and some may wish for his style back, but he decided to go and I'm not sorry he did. In fact I stopped going the season before he left because I found our football like groundhog day.

I came back and got my season ticket the season he left.

I really would like to see us get a top, top class goalkeeper, or even a good steady one, but it comes down to cash.When he comes out and lauds T/H as his first choice, etc, I can understand it. He's hardly going to out and say he's like a big girls blouse at corners and crosses.

Roberto is reputedly trying to bring Yarmelenko in, and if he does, the he's got the C/F, M/F and Defender of his choice and he's brought some good young players into the club and into the team. That to me, is looking positive for the future.

I'm not so sure Martinez is destroying our club, I don't think our Board need any help in that direction.

We have a lot of British players in our squad, and to us, the game has never really been about possession. It's about trying to get forward, and score goals, or soaking up pressure and playing on the counter.

I honestly feel McCarthy is the only one who understands the Martinez, philosophy and he's hardly what you would call a creative player, to me.

Also Mirallas is a petulant twat.

The same thought has been bothering me. We don't keep possession that well so – what exactly is it the style that Martinez attempts to inculcate into his teams?

It looks to me that it's changed over his time with us. I think above anything it is a cautious approach which involves not overly committing until we see what the opposition are going to do.

Whatever it is he believes in, I can tell you what it isn't. He doesn't believe in going out for the oppositions throat so that we might from the outset get a grip on the game. He regards a steady approach which by its nature encourages a slow build-up to our attacks.

Put another way, he will not commit to the rapid support in numbers of our attacks. This is probably why, more often than not, they come to nothing. I believe he has a team capable of doing this.

The bottom line is that he is more cautious than Moyes ever was but is lucky enough to enjoy from media backing a belief that he is an attacking manager. Where it comes from I have no idea – but it persists and it works in his favour.

Steve Simonsen is still 'plying his trade' after a tour of English and Scottish clubs – including Rangers. He is currently playing for Pune City in the Indian Super League!

I must have watched a different game because the only players I thought maintained their standards were Seamus and Funes Mori. Okay, Galloway and Barkley tried throughout and were let down at times by the quality of the pass to them and the options they had once they had the ball, but Geri was patchy at best and embarrassing at times.

Stones defended well on the floor but was far too happy for Jags to take the primary responsibility for passing the ball out of defence and that was utter dross at times. McCarthy and Barry didn't show enough for the ball either, which wouldn't have been so bad if they had been exhausting themselves disrupting the Arsenal playmakers.

Howard didn't do well for either goal but Ozil was allowed time and space to pick his cross for the first and the free kick for their second should never have been conceded.

Martinez has obviously ditched 'Sin miedo' and seems to have run out of ideas. Maybe we will get lucky with some enforced changes; I am hopeful that Cleverly and Funes Mori can step in and improve our distribution from the back and revitalise our midfield.

Unfortunately, Brendan you have a goalkeeper behind you that has plenty of fear. He let's you down.

When is Martinez going to grow a pair of balls and drop this coward, because that is what Howard is. He's more interested tweeting photos of his expensive luggage and first class seats.

It is time for Martinez to show Howard that his place in the team is not guaranteed.

Forget individuals, however bad Howard Lukaku, Stones and Lennon, to name a few, were. More bad team selections and Martinez is deservedly right back in the firing line.

Bottom half, here we come.

His team selection is often baffling and negative. He appears, in my view,to be unclear what his best lineup and formation is. His loyalty to some players has long passed the point of being remotely commendable. At times we appear devoid of passion and inspiration and too often look ponderous and fearful.His job is safe unless there is a monumental collapse in the next two months.

I believe there is a chance that this squad can move the club forward and hope Martinez can do it. I wish it was someone else.

A bit of luck and we could have least got a draw. I don't think we deserved victory today though.

The next 2 months will define our season

Yes, the marking left a lot to be desired but Tim Howard has got to come out and meet a floated cross into the 6-yard area! That should be bread and butter for a keeper. I dread to think what Big Nev thinks of our present No 1. Should be dropped asap!

As for our play, I just don't understand why we start so slow? Surely it's RM's responsibility to get them firing on all cylinders from the off? We should be at them right from the start but instead we sit back and admire Arsenal.

What surprised me is the general indecision within the team; no real conviction, confidence and yes, as others have posted, a lack of a leader with a nasty streak!

I thought Lennon had another poor game and Macca was again average at best! I thought we looked a lot more controlled and dangerous when Mirallas came on. For me, he must start every game and Lukaku must learn to work the channels. Too often today it was hoofed up to him and and with no support their CB had a pretty easy time today.

All-in-all, a disappointing day; the Blues need to get their shit together and quickly!

Same thing last week: Stones and Coleman are fit again and straight in the team. That would be okay if the defence had been performing badly but the defence was playing very well and again he changed the team in fact most of the right wing was changed. 3 players in one game. Result could have been 5-0.

The difference in Martinez's first season was that players had to play good to be in the team. Last season, you played well and you were rested next game???

Players come in form and then they go out of form and when out of form, drop them. Remember Man City's goalie? When Hart, came back he was really good.

Time for Martinez to earn his salary and make the hard decisions. Howard may be a 'big character' in the dressing room, but the guy is clearly coming to the end of his career in the top flight. I've never been one to single out individuals, but it's clear he will continue to decline at this stage in his career.

It doesn't have to end nastily, we can all thank him for his service to the club and see him on his way. I wonder if anyone still wants to see him continue?

Kone didn't get enough time today but his time is up in my opinion along with the other deadwood: Howard, Gibson, Barry, Osman, Hibbert, McGeady and Lennon. I would put Cleverley in that list but first a clearout of the old guard.

What can we expect for the rest of the season? Not much is the answer. Martinez is a busted flush. The more I see and hear from him, the more I grow to despise him. I never thought I would say this of Roberto but the guy is a coward. A coward in the Moyes mould and he has become this recently. Why I just can't figure it out?

People saying we can't afford a world class goalie... maybe not, but any old, average, has been, like Schwarzer or Friedel even, would be a massive improvement, that's how bad he is.

Apart from him, it's clear that we lack drive, aggression and leadership. Too many nice, quiet boys in this squad and an overwhelming sense of 'going through the motions'. Footballers and management, happy to be paid professionals, but not a winner amongst them.

Howard comes out with his feet (sliding tackles, as you put it) because he is a coward...

He needs to be dropped now.

It'll be interesting now, as Roberto has almost a full squad to pick from. Which is the firat time, is it not, since early last season. That is not me making excuses, I am just trying to be factual.

From now on, except for Pienaar and Bainsey and Besic, He has a great deal of choice. He has seasoned premiership players, good quality young players and even more waiting in the wings.He is now coming into the stage of the game where he doesn't have to cobble together teams in a formation he'd perhaps rather not do.

If he can begin to replicate the football that he orchestrated in the first year, then I think it is looking quite promising for us. He did however, make a point of saying that he was searching for a No 10; and I guess that is the postition he is looking for to knit this team together.

I think from now on in, certainly from the January window, I think it would be fair to judge him and his team on their performance.

Then if he fails to progress, I would say there is no real reason other than he just can't bring us any further...and there's always Brendan Rogers!

I thought on Saturday, that United had got their tactics spot on but I don't think Martinez did. But the team looked flatter than just being out tacticalised (new word!)

That should tell us something about the way we don't attack in numbers as you simply ain't going to score a bagful from outside the box every week. Even shite like Newcastle scored six last week.

No more, they are staying away till things change. I think the more that do it will finally make this shower do something.

They don't deserve the support the fans give are club, they don't give a crap about its supporters as far as I'm concerned. It's the same drivel, same mistakes every game, and then the same tripe spouted from the manager at the end.

Big changes are needed on and off the pitch.

Some saw Geri as being superb but, while I admired his tracking back as well, I felt he did little to either beat his man or get a good pass in (apart from the build up to our goal).

Jim #117 "But the team looked flatter than just being out tacticalised (new word!)". And if the word was italicised?!

Those who think we have a run of winnable fixtures should note that our next away game is at West Ham, currently a top four team.

We need to adopt a more positive approach from the first minute of every game, starting on Tuesday night against Norwich. Mirallas and Cleverley should be in the team but whoever plays, nothing less than a convincing win will do.

I only listened to the match on Radio Merseyside and Ronnie Goodlass thought he'd put a decent shift in. He also made the point that Gerry was not beating his man often enough, nor getting decent crosses in, plus he was falling over a bit to easily.

I'd like to see Darron Gibson get a game as well, on Tuesday night.

Good grief Callum, your girls won't be getting home for hours then. I hope they're being well looked after by the coach company. Your point about the club, especially the board in my view is right.

What I heard today though, might well, if true, mean that change will come anyway quite soon.. Hopefully for the better, if that's the case.

I didn't want RM to sign Lennon once he had gotten Deulofeu and though he tries hard he is not up to snuff as a midfielder. Mirallas seems to be out of favour due to his early Summer statements about leaving an may not be a viable option supporting Lukaku. Cleverley would be a welcome return but I doubt it would drastically improve things offensively against the better clubs.

Everton have now lost to Man City and Man Utd at home, dropped 2 points to RS also at Goodson and now lost to Arsenal. They beat Chelski but Mourinho's mob appear to be out of sorts this season so far.

Now, with Jags likely to be out for a while the defence may lack real leadership specially as Howard (the senior guy) is in decline. Hopefully they can stay up the table until January when it is hoped RM can strengthen the offence as clearly what they have is just not good enough.

I thought we did OK. Fairly compact defensively and looked capable of springing into attack through Rom and our pacy trio.

Defensively we saw a bit of a difference with Mori. Giroud did brilliantly against Stones and Jags as neither of them really attack the ball; all contact was initiated by Giroud and he's strong enough to hold a man off once he's earned his position. Without knowing how good Mori can be, it's clear he is the one who will attack the ball and man... Giroud didn't have it hits own way when he came on.

I don't believe either goal was a flap from Howard. He didn't get close enough to flap. The only defence for him is to say that he wouldn't have got to either from where he was... but it's his job to be ready to attack the ball. It would be like defending a no goal striker who never makes a run.

The first ball into Giroud, in particular, was exceptional but to lose to a side as good as Arsenal on aerial balls is gutting - we matched them on the deck.

No particular criticism of Roberto's selection. Playing Del was good and introducing Mirallas was a bold move. We have attacking threats - nice to see them.

Tonight was a missed opportunity. If only we could go for the jugular from the start!

First, it makes me think that the Manager has no idea on how to defend; and secondly, he relies on someone who has even less idea.

He's the worst keeper by some distance in the Premier League. I don't expect him to make any saves. If I were an opposition manager, I would insist my team should shoot on sight of goal and toss any old ball into the area. A keeper was a priority, Howard is a chump.

I was looking at our formation with a flat back four and, not really anything wrong with it, but there does seem to be a bit of overkill to have two defensive midfielders in front of the defence.

I thought about Tyias Browning and what a good player he looks; he certainly hasn't let us down when he's played. What I'd be interested to see is a back five, with Seamus, Tyias, John, Ramiro and Brendan as our defence (worry about Bainsey when he's back).

They would be one hard bunch of lads who don't take any messing from any opposition forward, or anyone else for that matter. They would certainly be a handful for any forward who tried to throw his weight about. They are all fast and hard and skilful and can get an attack going, or support the attack by getting into an attacking position themselves, extremely quickly.

I think we could then have three midfielders who woulds be expected to be more creative than we have at present and two forwards to do the business.

I am now going to have a nice cup of Horlicks and read a book!

http://youtu.be/AS45UkyfQl8

I was not sure whether Coleman was injured, but bringing on Kone on in the 88th minute and moving Mirallas to right back was baffling as Mirallas seemed to bring some life into the forward line and Kone did not seem to do anything when he came on.

No, this was not a good performance overall and Arsenal may be in the top 4, but they were there to be beaten, and once again Everton failed to take advantage. Okay, we had a tough 10-game start, but this was no excuse not to have earned more points as we have failed to gain more points by poor selection, poor substitutions and lack of effort.

Shame that all we have to look forward to is we should do well against supposedly poorer teams to gain a respectable position in the league.

Let's not forget that the 10 teams we have just played that earned us 13 points, we have to play them again in the second half of the season.

It is not to simply castigate an individual for an error/mistake etc as this can happen to anybody and of which there is far to much in this media dominated rush to judgement. Nor is it to highlight a goalkeeping error, because their errors are always too easy to focus on for all the obvious reasons. No. This is a fundamental flaw in an aspect of the position that makes it criminal that it has been tolerated for so long. Is this man singularly incapable of attacking a flighted ball into the box? He is not a novice in terms of years and experience which raises the issue of the so called "goalkeeping coaches"! Now there is a joke! Just what do these characters do with their time at their palatial,training ground?

It is a good job that so much so called coaching claptrap pervades the modern game, personified by Mr Martinez, because if any of them had the common sense of the average manager of a schoolboy team, pub team, amateur team etc then Everton would be on the end of some pretty bleak results. For would any coach with a modicum of sense not simply set out to relentlessly pump as many balls into the six-yard as they could knowing how incompetent this keeper is? I am amazed that so few do this. Even the so called ex-pro pundits seem blind to the obvious, as they see these two errors as aberrations rather than further examples of dreadful professional incompetence. And to think that this guy is paid obscene amounts of money to go out and carry on continuing to fail in one of the most crucial aspects of his responsibility.

It is not that he himself is the only problem or flaw in the current Everton set up but he is certainly one of the most crucial and the most obvious. As such it brings the issue of standards across many areas of responsibility into disrepute, not least the manager and his so called staff. Then to hear about Callum's children's fate, together with the dreadful train company treatment of those loyal fans it just makes one despair.

Driving down we discussed the liability Howard has become so not in the least bit surprised how bad he was, besides being by varying degrees at fault for both goals he also palmed a shot going 2 yards wide round the post then parried away a powder puff shot with more power than it had.

Don't think one of his many kicked clearances reached a blue shirt, not helped by Lukaku or Barkley seemingly unwilling to challenge.

I take no pleasure in slating any player but his problem with balls into the box is now endemic in his game, thought the Benteke headed goal at Villa last season was bad, seems like that it could get worse.

A very well written piece that sums up this pitiful excuse for a goalkeeper we have. If Martinez had had any idea of goalkeeping talent he would have replaced Howard the day he arrived at this club. It would have saved Howard the embarrassment he is suffering now.

It just staggers me that fans have taken so long to see his glaring faults. There are many faults in this team, Howard is just one of them. Unfortunately the manager is the main problem, so we are stuck him until the results are so bad they sack him.

This pretty much sums up the confusion our manager and players currently create.

First of all, our bogey team is Arsenal, not Sunderland – go and have a look at the record books, it's not news.

Secondly, I agree that Gareth Barry is the glue that binds us together, but he's also something of a thorn in our side when we lose the ball because he has absolutely no pace – this is the reason he is the most yellow-carded player in the history of evolution. Pretty much every card he gets is for either pulling someone back when they break on us, or tripping someone up in a spectacularly late tackle like last night.

On the plus side, he plays it simple, moves the ball around nicely and is to, our Didier Deschamps – as a certain Monsieur Cantona put it so bluntly, a water carrier. Every team has one, or should have one. The problem with our one is his ability off the ball, not with it.

A few people have mentioned our defence, which is seemingly a bit shambolic, and I agree though I would also say that the way we set up our midfield offers very little protection, and we're literally wide open in midfield. The players leave so much space it's unreal and Arsenal played all around us exactly as Man Utd did a week ago – why does the manager not learn?

Also, yet again another game goes by and I struggle to notice/understand the tactics being employed – especially in the first half. Arsenal are always going to have the ball, so why weren't we trying to counter-attack? At all. Slow in possession, dithering about backwards and sideways against a team which is always going to pass you to death. What have they been practicing all week? Baffling again.

I'm not too irked at losing away to Arsenal – we've all come to expect it these days, but the manner in which we went about it was the worst thing. Second half we broke on them at pace, but why not the first half?

Howard looked like an ageing figure last night, as did Jags. I've been a staunch supporter of Howard (goalkeepers union & all that) but last night I couldn't not agree with the dissenters on here about his performance. Aimless kicking, flapping at crosses, or simply not trying to command his area at all left him looking like an amateur.

Jagielka's distribution was equally woeful and often put young team mates under pressure. Defenders need to be cool, and calm things down, not hype them up and make midfielders stressed. Stones may not be the best in the air, but the kid is still a Rolls Royce on the ground. Immensely calm and collected moving the ball forward at times, and a joy to watch.

As another poster mentioned, we're not far short of being a very good side – we just need to cut out a few mistakes, and learn to be tighter without the ball, and hustle a bit more. We have all the makings of a good side, but all the hallmarks of a Martinez side – open, and prone to glaring mistakes.

By the time we get to Christmas we should have an idea of where we are – we've played last season's top half already, now we play last season's bottom half so we'll see.

a) Put all our eggs in the League Cup basket;

b) Drop Howard.

So that's 2 very hard or 2 very easy decisions for Roberto.

My tip: he will only make one decision, buggered if I can guess which one it will be though.

Trouble is the ridiculous contract he was given on the basis of one decent save in a losing World Cup game, and the massive overreaction of a country that understands the game like most in Engalnd understand baseball.

Well said, Anthony Lamb (#138).

1) Barry had been one of our star performers all season. I know he polarises opinion but he has broken up attacks and initiated counters all season. Our best best midfielder by a mile in an area where we are lacking.

2) I agree with everyone in here – Howard is shot and cannot command his box. He gives his defence no confidence on crosses and must be dropped... permanently.

3) Our defensive cohesion has deteriorated over the season and a major part of that has been the drop off in Jagielka's performance. He has been losing his man regularly and his passing out of defence has been woeful. Sounds terrible but when he went off I thought 'good', now we will have better defensive balance with Funes Mori alongside Stones.

4) Barkley is beginning to match his individual talent with team play, but he is COWARDLY in the tackle and I am sick of it. He constantly jumps out of 50:50 challenges, losing possession and allowing teams to counter attack. He makes it worse by jogging back after he has been the one to lose the ball.

5) Lukaku worked his backside off but was completely isolated. We badly need an advanced Number 10 to feed him.

6) Brendan Galloway is going to be a fantastic player. Enough said!

Howard clearly isn't the man, but to point the finger solely at him is wrong; any goalkeeper would struggle with crosses with Jagielka, Stones, Barkley, Barry et al in front of him. We haven't got a single player who can bully a defender or attack a ball in a way a player like Dave Watson would.

I haven't seen enough of Funes Mori to saddle him with comparisons to the likes of Watson, but he at least knows how to compete in the air and he may be just the player to set the example for our talented young defenders – Jagielka certainly isn't.

I think Mike Green is right. Big Sam would have been licking his lips at the way we defended crosses and I expect them to be fizzing in next week. When Wenger and Arsenal abandon their philosophy to repeatedly put balls "into the mixer", You have to recognise that the rest of the league have identified a big chink in your armour.

Centre-midfield still relies on Barkley for creativity and he was decent yesterday but don't expect him to tackle as he can't. Barry was good apart from his silly 2nd booking and it is McCarthy who needs a rest. Cleverley centre-mid instead of him against Sunderland for me.

I don't get excited now when we get a corner and just wait for the opposing team to pick up possession. There is obviously no preparation on the training ground on attacking corners and no one apart from Jags sometimes with a flailing attempt to connect, makes any effort to attack the ball.

At places like the Emirates, some of your best opportunities to score will come from corners and set pieces. This and the general lack of aerial threat from the team is unacceptable.

On current form alone, Howard should be dropped. If West or Southall had been defending those two crosses, Giroud and Kosceilny would have woken up in the second half with cauliflower ears.

Surely Robles will start against Norwich – Lafferty is 6'4". I hope young Robles rises to the challenge because if he doesn't I am am going to get seriously worried about the Sunderland and West Ham games.

Big Sam will have, since he got the job, been drumming into his charges the finer points of scoring from corners and set pieces.

And then there is Carroll to contend with.

I really hope Gibson and Besic are available for these games because they are going to be tough physical contests.

So what benefit is there in picking Howard? Joel Robles might make mistakes but might also turn into a keeper for future years. He showed a few signs last season. I'd rather know that answer by January when the transfer window opens.

Throw into the mix the high placings of West Ham, Palace and Leicester who are full of verve and confidence and suddenly the next half of the season starts to look a bit more daunting than it may have at the start of the season. Two sides who Everton have already beaten Southampton and West Brom have moved above the Blues in the table and hopefully not too many others will do the same in the coming months.

The Manager, the players and not least the fans have to realise that nothing is won on paper as football is played on grass and every player has to win their individual battles before the team start to win matches more regularly.

A perceived easier run of fixtures won't automatically lead to an increased points tally, hard work, concentration and a determination to outscore the opponents by the players might. We'll see where we are at the turn of the year but I don't expect it to be any easier to watch than it has been in the first few months of the season.

As for singling out players for criticism, the same players get hammered each time. Most on here have levelled criticism at Howard. If you think there is a goalie out there who dominates his area and comes and collects crosses by wiping out everything I front of him, then think again: there isn't. Those goalies don't exist anymore. Just look at Neuer, reckoned to be best in world, even he flapped at a cross which cost them the first goal against Arsenal.

I'm very calm about our situation and thoroughly enjoying the Rugby World Cup – now that is entertaining!

He is costing us too many points. He is a lovely guy and has served us fairly well over the years, but is still suspect in many situations, that can' just be chalked down to a bad day at the office!

I fail to understand the logic, or should I say the lack of it, with many Football Managers, in they will willingly pay astronomical fees and wages for strikers and outfield players. Many of whom fail to deliver or live up to their expectations. Yet when it comes to a Goalkeeper they reluctantly pay small beer, okay there have been some exceptions, but generally GKs don't seem to command decent fees. They are more valuable than a misfiring outfielder any day.

I don't think El Teflon in the reserves is the answer either, so come on Everton get the ball rolling next window and get a good reliable replacement, whatever the cost!

If Chelsea come in for John Stones again, should we sell? And if we do, would you trust Martinez to spend wisely? A big NO.

How many games have we won since the end of his first season? Not many.

He has to go... come on, Kenwright, have the guts to say you made yet another mistake; please sack him.

We are going nowhere except downwards with Martinez. Look at the way West Ham are playing and they have had a harder fixture list than we have: Arsenal and Liverpool both away which they won. Seems to me they have recruited well. Martinez out.

Howard poor? Yes.
Jags poor? Yes
Stones poor? Interested to hear views...

What worries a lot of blues fans is history has a habit of repeating itself, the system Roberto employs hasn't really altered and we only avoided a relegation fight, by winning 5 out 6 games between March and April last season.

The pressure is on the manager once again therefore, to find a winning formula, and although the fixtures look relatively easy, I don't think there are any easy games in the EPL the Sky money has seen to that. So starting with the Sunderland home game, we need to start picking up 3 points on a regular basis. Or we could be in trouble again.

I did post elsewhere that Stones might in part be culpable for the first goal. He left Jags to go for it when he could see all I front of him.

Love the guy's abilities but there are times of indecision or poor decision. But still love the guy – the way he controlled one high ball with his chest, I just drooled – shades of Bobby Moore.

The Sunday Mirror's players ratings: Howard 7/10 Good saves, commanded his penalty box well.

It's alright playing with 11 when we have the ball but to play with 10 when we don't is too much in this league. You need every player fighting for the ball and Barkley is a massive letdown in this area. I don't know how he's getting away with it to be honest.

With regards the manager motivating the players, well all the slow starts says it all. Totally second rate. We are screwed until Martinez either goes or changes the way we play.

It's been a tough first 10 games, one would expect wins for the next few games but what history has shown, with Martinez in charge, I wouldn't put money on us winning many. Please prove me wrong, Everton.

I thought we played well, could've won and would've if we'd had their keeper. Barkley, Galloway, Lukaku and Stones were our stand-out performers. Why oh why doesn't Mirallas start? And Deulofeu was poor again.

Answers on a postcard.

Barkley couldn't tackle his way out of a paper bag.

He is not good enough to play for Everton... Realise it now, Martinez, before you ruin this season.

Bring back Leon Osman for god's sake at least for home games. Lennon is fucking useless and does not fit in with our style of play. Be brave this time, Mr Manager, and get rid soon.

The problem is that Martinez is very similar to Benitez, in that rather than trying to get points out of every game he just focuses on certain games. We didn't really go out for a victory against a very poor Liverpool side. Martinez then continued to play players who had had a poor game against Liverpool v United.

Steven Naismith is useless on the wings, we saw that under Moyes however Martinez has started to play him on the wings. Funes Mori played well against Liverpool, there was no reason to drop him for the United match and then not play him from the start against Arsenal. Same with Browning, yes he's not very good going forward but he is a quality defender.

Lennon played very well last season on loan, however after signing del he shouldn't of been brought back. A lot of people had a go at Mirallas when he got sent off at Swansea; I thought he was right to be annoyed. There was huge amounts of space on the left that could of been exploited by him, however Martinez brought him on after 90 minutes.

My view is Martinez was the wrong man to bring in to Everton in 2013; we should of brought in Billic. He has proven that he can do very well with very little resources. He has beaten Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City away from home and beaten Chelsea at home. He is a manager who accepts no nonsense from his players, he did very well at Besiktas beating our neighbours from the park in the Europa League.

He nearly knocked Arsenal out of the Champions League in the qualifiers; my view is we made a serious mistake not bringing him in when we had the chance.

Did anyone watch the Manc derby? Complete shite. If we had of gone for it rather than shitting our pants, we would have got more out of these games. Second half yesterday we were the more dangerous team cutting through their flanks.

The season is far from over, we just need to cut out the respect to the opposition. COYB, keep the faith.

We have the best quality squad we have had since the start of the Premier League but unfortunately not the management to make them successful.

Barkley is an average footballer, I don't care what anyone says, he's bog standard average.

Lukaku's is fucking useless on his own upfront, he needs a supporting striker.

We have no midfield, we do not impose ourselves on games; win the middle and you control the game.

Martinez is way out of his depth. We are in more trouble than I think a lot of fans realise... our football is pedestrian and predictable, the teams he picks are unbalanced with players in wrong positions or better options on the bench.

I really think Funes Mori should play with either Jagielka or Stones as he is so much more commanding in the air.

I'm going to lay my cards on the table and say I think the first 6 months were a break in convention for this manager, mainly due to the structure and shape Moyes left from a defensive aspect. The last half dozen or so games of his first season, we shipped a lot of goals... and last season was a joke.

We will improve on last season a bit, but there's nothing to get excited about; we are a very average side.

The Lennon signing is a joke, by the way.

He inherited a top 4 back 4 and a bunch of top class young players. In addition, he has been backed extensively in the transfer market.

For me personally he was never good enough for a club of Everton's size but as always we have backed the manager. However, I feel we have seen enough of his tactics, team selection and motivation to be dissatisfied by what we see.

As long as this club remains in its semi-catatonic state, we can forget about ever winning the league, finishing in the top four or, in fact, winning a cup. The whole structure stinks of complacency and mediocrity — you can have the manager of your dreams and we will still struggle to get to 6th to 8th. We might play a bit better (whatever that means) but we are stuck where we are thanks to the incompetent clowns who run the club.

It's not a case of not winning the first 10 games... it should be whether we can see any light at the end of the tunnel. In my opinion, there isn't.

Deulofeu also has to be given the time that Ross has and he'll be a top player.

We've got those 10 games out of the way now. Let's see where we are after the next 10. I think we'll be top 8 at worst...

We had an opportunity, when Moyes went, to get a top class manager and, as usual, Bill took the lazy and easy option.

Say what you like about Moyes but, for the last 5 or 6 seasons he was there, we always had expectation we would challenge for the top 6 and if we didn't meet those expectations then we would be bitterly disappointed to say the least.

We haven't had loads of money for years now but we still expected to compete. Now the excuses coming out are, "Well, we had a hard first 10 games, we don't have loads of cash and the top teams have so many good players." Pitiful excuses.

Martinez, regardless of his inane positivity, has subtly managed to lower everyone's expectations. After he took over a healthy top 6 club he had managed to destroy a good team by playing so much negative football that he makes Moyes look like a Dutch master coach. We are now happy if we are mid table and hope, yes hope we can do something against the smaller clubs.

For pity's sake, we are heading back into mediocrity which is only a small step back to the Walter Smith years. In fact there could be an argument that Walter's teams played with a bit more passion but they were just shit players.

I am sick and tired of the team only coming to life when we are a goal or two down. I have no idea what they do in training but it's not practising football given what they do on the field. Goodison's crowd are so bored, the place really has taken over from Highbury and become a library. The team don't Inspire and neither does Martinez. For me he really needs to go before he drags us further into the mire.

Once-good players are a shadow of their former selves and there is no sign that they are ever going to return to great form. Every now and again, a player shines then it's back to same old, same old the next game.

I want us to be competitive every game and I don't want to hear daft excuses like we have hard games... they are all supposed to be hard and if you don't put the effort in then you don't get reward. Ffs, even the lower league clubs in the Capital One Cup gave us a hard time before we started playing.

Of all the games played this season, only Man City were a cut above. Every other game we could have taken something from if Martinez had any clue how to get the best out of his players. Enough is enough for me, he has to go before much more damage is done.

I have just watched MotD2. I don't see ANY easy games from the also-rans. In fact, I see more skill and imagination than we could ever conjure up from our coming up fixtures.

Seeing Howard's performance re the goals infuriates me; it looks as though he was bribed to do nothing! Attack the ball!!! You are paid more than most of us will ever see; your arrogance astounds me! When you let one in, and I mean LET, you look around as if it's someone else's fault!!

You have cost us so many goals this season, you are a great "stopper" (if that involves getting in the way!) but you don't command the box as all of our previous goalkeepers have.

We now have a keeper and manager who is not worthy of us. How could you possibly leave Naismith on for 45 minutes against Man Utd when he was obviously having a bad day? You bring players on for 5 minutes at the end expecting change!!! WE DESERVE BETTER!

Every fucking match looks improvised, we get through with damage limitation. I have been a Blue for 57 years... I DESERVE BETTER!

I also think this first 10 games is joke, as recent history has shown we have no idea of beating poor teams who just park the bus anyway. Get ready for drab draws, shit goalkeeping and above all, poor management.

Note that despite the board's lack of ambition in appointing RM, he has received significantly greater backing in the transfer market than his predecessor (comparing 10-11 - 12-13 vs 13-14 - 15-16).

As for the assertion that another manager would struggle to get this team to 7th-ish... isn't this where EFC consistently finished in the 3 seasons pre-RM?

Also, you (and others) cite a lack of ambition from the board when they appointed Martinez. Remind me, just who was a realistic alternative who was in the frame? I genuinely can't recall. The only names bandied around where Ralf Rangnick and Marcelo Biesla was also touted. The former would've been a riskier appointment, and I doubt the latter was ever a contender.

- Regarding budget availed by the board to RM vs Moyes, of course the Sky money determines the size of the budgets RM vs OFM. However look at Moyes's budget dealings vs his achievement of league position....and then refute my point around the 6th - 8th (see CG @ 190) as being a struggle for EFC to achieve.

- Regarding who was available, 2 words this time i.e. Slaven Bilic; my point being, that here is a guy who was bought out of a contract by the mighty West Ham (ambitious that ain't it?). If you look hard enough and are bold and determined enough....

- Lastly the question to you (and I assume you're an RM supporter) and others who haul out the "who else would've come here/who else was available" line is this: which EPL club today would have RM as their preferred manager?

ps: I was also sold on RM in 2013-14 but have long since realized that was achieved in that season was a fluke. Happy to be proved wrong of course...

Martinez frustrates the shite out of me. I couldn't listen to his inane pressers during his first season (when by most people's standards we did quite well). His blind spot re Howard, and accumulation of wingers that never play also somewhat vexes me.

However, even though we eventually finished 7 points off 4th place, I believe that our Board's failure to somehow find the funds to back the manager in January meant we, once again, fell short.

The problem we will always have as long as we have a board of carpetbaggers is we will only ever be in the market for a manager who will toe the line, and try to outperform based on the available budget. Great when it works, but ultimately likely to leave us just short.

Moyes largely out-performed, and was well rewarded for it. But he was also given plenty of time to ultimately fall short.

As for Roberto Martinez, Liverpool went after him so there were other clubs looking at him. As Matt says, who else was around that would have been as good/ better. Slaven Bilic? Possible but had he any experience in league management? That doesn't mean he would not make it of course, but we chose Roberto.

So far, I think he had a good first season a poor second season and a mixed set of results and performances this season. I think he now has his squad almost all fit and from now on, or certainly from January when he hopefully gets Yarmalenko, then he should be able to produce the football he is aiming for.

The games were hard for the first ten or so but, it's right now to say, there are no easy games, so the up and coming ones will be battles that we will have to win.

As for the goalkeeping question. Tim Howard has kept us in games on occasions but he has always had a weakness for crosses /corners and he's lost us as many, if not more (I think it's more) games regularly giving the opposition easy headers that should have been his ball.

I think it would be reasonable to give Robles a run; if he does anything like his last run, then it didn't look bad at all. Getting another goalie, though, costs a lot of cash and have we got it?

Someone said the fans don't have ambition. Don't we? If we look at the club and the Board that runs it, it isn't being unrealistic, after the tripe we've had for donkey's years, to foresee that we are not going to mix it with the top four on a regular basis, if at all.

And as other clubs now have equal buying power, it is likely, but not certain, that this club, as it stands now, will only be able to see our team get around the 8th - 6th mark.

If we think another manager will raise us higher... Who?

We've known for years that the club were content for Moyes to keep us in and around the top six or seven but "knife to a gunfight" was his view; and that might well be all this club is capable of.

The world of football beggars belief: fuck up and there's another job for you! Maybe we expect too much from him? But, as I said in my previous thread, we deserve better!

Neither keeper we have is good enough: we should have made signing a goalkeeper our top priority last summer. I know that; most Evertonians know it as well... shame our manager does not see it.

Robles is not a keeper for me; that will be our downfall in a cup run, Robles playing in goal.

Let's hope and pray we sign a keeper in January.

Let's hope Martinez goes all out to sign the guy in January.