From My Seat: West Ham (A)

We seem to put a lot on Barkley's shoulders, it would be good to get him some support in scheming.

So happy that Deulofeu is strutting his stuff again, a genuine match winner.

Lukaku also must be the most prolific striker we've had in two decades.

Also made-up that Stones is back and Funes Mori was a decent purchase.

We were okay. The expression these days is "meh". Yes, we badly need that schemer. And one or two more to start taking a grip of things, being nasty, making the rest of the team able to see when the game is there for the taking.

I thought Stones was back to his excellent best yesterday, and Barry played very well. I'd love to see an Alan Ball or a Peter Reid playing alongside Ross Barkley, he's a talented lad who was poor yesterday, he looks like he needs some guidance.

If Deulofeu can keep providing the assists (3rd best for assists in the Premier League this season, despite not having played all the minutes), Rom will rock on.

You have to say the top four is there for the taking this season If any team is good enough to put a winning run together, the thing that concerns me is that we haven't got the consistency in performance level to be that team.

It wasn't a bad result yesterday but it wasn't quite a good enough performance to get us the win which would have given us real momentum after last week, especially after West Ham suffered the loss of Payet in the second half.

I just think we are a nearly team, nearly get that final ball in the area right but don't, nearly challenge the top sides above us but don't quite have the cutting edge to put them to the sword.

We need to put a decent run together before Christmas and get past Middlesbrough in the Cup then we need to go searching in January for that creative attacking central midfielder, for me the target still hasn't changed from the summer window when we, "apparently" pursued Yarmolenko.

Barkley has proved he is not that lock-picker of rigidly organized defences. And whilst Deulofeu has produced some laser-guided through-balls recently, most of his work will undoubtedly be from the wing not the centre.

As already said on here, why does he have to take every corner and free kick? At present he is an Arteta clone with them. We offer no threat. The only PL team not to score from a set piece this season. A Plan B for free kicks in front of goal instead of lofting the ball over the bar would be helpful - a training ground move to an unmarked player off the end of the wall could pay dividends, I have seen GD in acres of space in these situations but every time it is a direct attempt on goal with nothing to show.

It's so difficult to quantify when is a draw a point gained or when it is two points lost. Last season, after 12 League games, Everton had the same number of points (17) and were only 2 points off 4th spot, but a massive 15 points off top spot.

The previous season we had 21 points, were a point off fourth place and only seven points from the top spot; by the end of that season we ended up with our record Premier League points total.

Currently we are nine points off the top spot and seven points away from the team in fourth place.

Following 12 league games played from (2010-11) to present day. Everton's points total reads current season first. 17; 17; 21; 20; 16; 15. Not much changes does it? I wonder if it has anything to do with transfers and or wages paid?

Barkley has the tools to be a great player, but needs to improve his decision-making significantly.

He's young and it should improve, as you said, it needs drilling into him (on the training ground) to get his up and pick out and early ball, and get into position for the return ball.

I had visions of Barkley bagging a load of goals by playing it up to the striker and then making a breaking run into box, getting played through by the striker...

Rarely happens, but it is exactly what a player of his ability should be doing all the time.

I use to think that Rom touch never allowed for this to happen, but even with Kone playing (who arguably alongside Deulofeu) has the best touch in the team, and with Deulofeu playing (with their touch and vision) it doesn't happen.

Not sure why, I don't think he seems to make those driving runs enough, which along with improving his decision making, is the other thing that will take his game to the next level.

Perhaps if we get that elusive No 10, he may start making more of these runs?

Can he play in goal?

I don't think we should be too hard on Barkley, at least he still shows for the ball; his decision-making needs to improve, but hes' not hiding.

Moyes had the same problem with Arteta who could not cross the ball past the first defender. Mikel when at Arsenal took over that role and without fail in game after game would deliver a succession of great crosses. My guess is it is all to do with practice and coaching.

Hibbo is not noted for crossing the ball yet even he could hardly do worse than young Ross.

I couldn't agree more and it's an area that needs addressing but RM according to this piece in the Echo doesn't seem to mind:

Everton Set Pieces

. I understand that it's not good practice to rely on set-pieces to score goals but surely he must realise they can be a vital tool for winning games. Every team should have a specialist free-kick / corner kick taker but even our best Baines/Mirallas are useless at Corners although often very good at free-kicks

Above is the link in full...

It was the same against Swansea, that's why Everton could only prise 1 point like yesterday. I do believe the manager has to see this straight away and make changes.

So, what is it with Ross? With him there why do people keep screaming for this magical No 10? Why not a magical No 6 like Carrick, Ya Ya Toure or Xavi Alonso?

Whatever the number, what it all boils down to is a need for a genuine intelligent thinker who can also play a bit. The football brains of Barry and Gibson in Ross's body. Sadly, it aint gonna happen. Ross will always be Ross and we'd better get used to it because he's not likely to be going anywhere.

Play Mirallas and Deulofeu on the wings. Kone, not doubting his recent performances, maybe a tad slow for the left flank.

Make it clear to Ross, that he is by no means being dropped. Bring him on for Kone later in the game. Sometimes seeing the game from the bench provides you with the knowhow of what you need to be doing once you're on.

It is an experiment of sorts, but there is no better opportunity to do that with Aston Villa at home. With the Villains expected to defend deep, Barry and McCarthy will push up a bit more which will mean that there will be phases when we have two genuine strikers up-front.

We all have seen what these two are capable of when they're together in the box and we just saw what Villa can do to a Man City with their stubborn defending. COYB!

Arteta scored umpteenth free-kick goals for Everton over his 6-year spell with us, I'd like to know just how many he actually scored but it must have been well into double figures, I can recall a good 6 or 7 straight off hand.

He did have a poor spell with corner taking but he also put in some outrageously great whipped in balls, remember that one for Tim Cahill's late header at Anfield?. Think was January 2009.

We also never had many problems scoring from goals from corners under Moyes.

I do agree though that practice has a lot to do with it; Baines, who took over after Arteta, then became a specialist, but even before his injury in August, can someone tell me the last time Bainsey even hit the target with one?

I'm pretty sure it was the two he got at West Ham, so he's deteriorated on them and his corners have become as bad if I remember from last night.

They say practice makes perfect but, when Martinez doesn't care much for set-pieces, don't expect to see any dead-ball experts any time soon soon at Everton.

Never went, never watched it, but it doesn't surprise me when you said West Ham, started quicker Ken. Every team starts quicker than Everton, and this is my biggest problem with Martinez, at the minute, especially when we are at home.

Listened to his interview after the match, and he actually said we had more corners than West Ham. Honestly, why don't we fucking practice them then?

Maybe then we can sing a song about Funes Mori. He will fly through the sky, and you'll get a black eye, THAT'S AMORI!

Great point and one that I made a while ago, well last season!

We never have "runner's" when attacking the corner. You seldom score from a standing jump and then by just standing still in the centre of the goal your always looking for the perfect ball into the box, but sometimes corners will be over or underhit hence why you need players peeling off front and back post! This was always a massive strength when Joe Royle was here with Andy Hinchcliffe, we scored deft headers at near posts, bullet headers far post.

It pays to be creative from corners because it's a massive part of football, being able to put the ball into the box and working at different ways of dragging your opponents defence out of position, remember the old Anderton/Sheringham combo at Spurs?

This is the one thing that I really really don't enjoy about the Martinez era at Everton, what has become clear as day our total negligence and almost ignorance of the use of what could be such a useful weapon if worked on...

The old classic corner kick.

I read somewhere that 1/3 of all goals come from set pieces and if that's the case we MUST improve in that area. If we haven't got anyone capable of shooting then try something else, a dink, a layoff... anything, I think Ross tried a layoff against Sunderland last week that was woeful and in kickabouts would automatically relegate that player from taking them again. The practise ground is where all this should be sorted out.

I've mentioned this in other postings, but there's a brilliant fly-on-the-wall documentary called 'The Class of '92' which follows Gary & Phil Neville, Giggs, Scholes & Butt after they become owners of non-league Salford City. After a good start, Salford go on a losing run and Gary Nev, turns to Scholes and says "If you compare our players to the other teams, we shouldn't be losing" It wasn't long after that the manager got the sack. Don't forget that between them they've won everything in the game and only played under one manager, so sacking a manager didn't come easy to them.

There's a interesting report in the Guardian today (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/08/john-stones-gerard-deulofeu-Everton-west-ham) obviously from a neutral perspective:

"Every one of the Premier League's current top nine should consider themselves in with a shout of fourth place in the table.

"Of two evenly matched teams at Upton Park, it is Everton who will harbour the more realistic hopes. This is based more on the quality of Marti­nez's first choice XI than a recent run which has seen only two wins, against West Bromwich and Sunderland, in the past nine games."

Which echoes The Class of '92's remarks about their manager. We now have what I believe are some excellent players, but the team is built on sand, as we've now conceded 21 goals this season in all competitions; and this with playing 2 DF's to 'protect' the back 4. Add to that the 50 we shipped in the league last season, and that, IMHO, is the stuff of nearly men...

To state the bleedin' obvious, we need a new GK – oh for Jack Butland, but I would like to see RM abandon the 2 holders and put Ross in there. And to all those who say he can't tackle, neither could Scholes but it didn't stop him from being one of the greatest midfielders in Europe, and would free up a position for Mirallas

As the article points out, Champions League places are up for grabs; we need to be both bolder and stop shipping goals, and no... they're not mutually exclusive.

I can understand and share your concerns about the lack of clean sheets and lack of victories, but is sacking Roberto really the solution to those issues?

What about the long-term future of the team? If and admittedly it's a big if the team manage to go on a winning run and make it's way to a two-legged Capital One semi-final this side of Christmas, wouldn't that mean that Roberto is doing a reasonable job?

I can't remember an Everton manager being so lacking in support from a fair proportion of the fan-base. I can understand some of the reasons and most of them are valid, but this lack of support seems to be of a more personal nature and has been present since the man was first appointed.

Given the short-termism among many clubs in the Premier League, it shouldn't come as a surprise... but usually Evertonians are willing to give their manager time and patience; for some unfathomable reason – at least to me – many won't be happy until Mr Martinez is plying his trade elsewhere, unless of course he gets maximum points from the next dozen games.

If Mr Martinez is fired (I don't think he will be unless the club does actually get taken over), who else of any substance would replace him? How many of our talented players would choose to follow him out of the door in the Summer? Most importantly of all, would another manager really increase Everton's odds of qualifying for Europe?

Love it! I hope somebody picks that one up and runs with it at games. I know can't get the tune and words out of my head!

To continue but adapt the first verse of the sing...
"When the blues seems to shine like you've had too much wine
That's our Mori".

However it then continues...
"Bells will ring ting-a-ling-a-ling, ting-a-ling-a-ling
And you'll sing 'Vita bella'
Hearts will play tippy-tippy-tay, tippy-tippy-tay
Like a gay tarantella"

It's the tippy-tippy bit that concerns me. Sounds like some of our tactics.

Just to take up your reply to David's post, you said you agreed with some of his criticisms of RM, and you I think rightly said you felt that a majority of fans wants him gone. I have been going to Goodison since the 50s and I can't remember the crowd being as quiet as they have been in the last 18 months.

I have to say that I thought we could have done better than get RM as manager, but in his first season we played bright attacking football a real joy to watch at times. But, since that first season, I don't know why he changed his style but we have become slow and predictable and quite honestly boring to watch at times.

Probably this is why the crowd is so quiet. Having said that, I believe we have some excellent players who could (if managed correctly) challenge for a top 4 place. As you say, opinions will change if we get to a Carling Cup final and go on a winning run in the league. I just feel as if we are a team playing with the handbrake on.

I hope I am completely wrong about RM and we do challenge for 4th place and push on for a Cup final. There are many varying views amongst us TW posters but what unites us is our love for our club, but we all differ on how to get the best from our team.

Yes, guys, you guessed it: a good old-fashioned centre-half scoring a header from a corner!!

Take note, Roberto, that just sometimes a lot of can be said of doing work from set-pieces.

By the way, Patrick, I'm not certain how many fans really want Martinez sacked; I think the majority (me included) just want the man to be a lot more flexible and to wake up to his negligence on working on certain subjects — such as the set-pieces.

The Catalan admitted as much in an early season interview. The key, as he consistently maintains, is about his side imposing themselves on the game via possession.

Set-pieces? He can take or leave them. Largely because the risk of losing the ball as a result is just not considered worth it.

"I always believe that a goal from open play is a more satisfying goal," said Martinez. "The hardest thing in football is to break a team down when everyone is behind the ball. A free-kick or dead-ball situation is less in your control. But you are relying more on the bounce of the ball or people switching off or doing their duties.

"Dead-ball situations are a big part of the game, don't get me wrong. But you are a winning team when you don't rely on set-pieces and I do prefer open play goals — I'm not going to hide it."

Given he hasn't said anything different in the ensuing 2.5 years, it doesn't look as if the Manager will listen to the fans' concerns and will carry on regardless of our criticism. The fans are asking for something that the manager is unlikely to give them, so the dissatisfaction on that particular aspect will continue unabated. Jim, I'm not so sure that you are correct in your assertion that a decent portion of the fan-base don't want Roberto removed from his position.

It started to go wrong during the last few games of that season but I, and I think a few more fans, put it down to a drop in form after a long season.

Then last season became a very poor experience going to watch Everton and it became clear that the manager would not change his tactics or philosophy. I gave him another chance to change his stance on how we played this season but is apparent that the slow build up and too many passes is part of the managers plans and he isn't going to change this style. There is no adventure in this game and it seems to me Martinez is more frightened of losing than trying to win matches.

I follow Everton and I think I always will, God willing, but I am getting very little pleasure from following them under Mr Martinez, the other week my great grandson, aged eight didn't want to go to the game. He has a season ticket, he said "grandad it's boring" and he lives for football.

So Martinez wants us to play bad set pieces and short corners so we don't lose possession, yet West Ham's goal came from us playing a short corner while inexplicably leaving half the team in their box. That makes sense.

I would go along with you regarding Martinez, being more flexible, but regarding corners, we have four coaches in the dugout plus several subs. Why can't someone make a point about putting a man at the front for set-pieces, because as you say, a lot of the crowd have been aware of it for over 12 months now.

Fourth place is definitely up for grabs, and with the attacking players we now have at the club, it should be within our reach.

I think it's been better than last season, so far at Goodison, Dave, but I do think we're at a crossroads, and I'm not sure if Martinez is hindering us or not at the minute.

Brent, who's the gay tarantella? Frankie?

Apart from the odd exception like the Sunderland match, the majority will be games where we don't work the opposition goalkeeper anywhere near enough.

Did we really test West Ham enough on Saturday once they lost Payet?

Did we really test a very tired weak looking Arsenal team at the Emirates or did we really test a Liverpool team anywhere near enough which was in crisis in Rodgers last game in charge?

You wouldn't mind but unlike in Martinez's first season, we don't even boss possession anymore, Norwich came to Goodison a few weeks ago and dominated the football.

I truly believe to some extent that Martinez has some kind of OCD when it comes to this possession obsession!

I doubt we'll ever truly adore this type of slow build up unless it leads to some kind of considerable success, either a trophy win or something that is unusual for Everton Football Club like a win at Anfield.

Until we achieve something that pleases the fans like that, then the majority will continue to be disgruntled with it, and I will be completely unbiased here, at this very moment in time, and arguably over the last 12 months if I was a neutral I'd rather watch the swashbuckling performances of the likes of Leicester City and Crystal Palace than some of the mundane lifeless displays I've witness as a Blue.

Firstly, I'm not in the Martinez Out camp, I'm commenting on a problem with our game that he isn't addressing. In the calendar year 2013, we had the best defensive record in the division, last season we shipped 50 goals and this season we've conceded 16 in 12 games, which is on course for yet another 50 goals against-and that with what is effectively a 6-man defence (or 7 if you count the GK – oh sorry in our case that's still 6).

Now football is about opinions and whether you're the average punter like us or a pundit who had stellar career in football, the only opinion is the managers. For example the world and his mother are saying that the way we set up has been sussed, and by pressing high nullifies the best pair of attacking FB's in the EPL. I would add that with the injury to Baines the rational for having 2 holders in MF was questionable.

But to go back to the 50-a-season habit, Martinez will have to solve it because if you remember he took the job with a promise of CL football, but shipping 50 goals we'll be lucky to get top 6, which means Stones, Coleman, Deulofeu, Lukaku et al will be poached, and our destiny will be to be a feeder club for the rich & famous.

Martinez deserves a huge amount of credit for bringing in and bringing on players that would not look out of place at any of the top sides in Europe let alone England, but that's also his weakness, because if he doesn't fix glaring problems in the team, that's where they'll end up not in a blue shirt.

After this time, the board must weigh up the situation, look at how the manager has performed, and either back him or sack him.

In season two, Martinez went all out to win the Europa League to qualify for the Champions League and it totally backfired on him. If I was the Chairman of EFC, I would be expecting Martinez to deliver a season similar to season one or better.

Failure to do so, and I would be saying "Thank you and Goodbye."

It wasn't my intention to put you in any camp, but rather I was trying to reflect that there is more disquiet among the supporters than any of us would like. But it is not difficult to understand why and this blog on ESPN, gives some of the reasons for that disquiet:

Inconsistent Everton

What he says at the link you provided has been part of the running discussion here in ToffeeWeb.

I believe we have some quality players and should be doing better than we are. (Galloway has been outstanding.)

On another note, it was funny to see Klopp moaning about the fans leaving early, but then they do have to get back to Norway !!!

I thought Osman for Barkley would have helped for the last 15 minutes.

There could be a degree of subtleness involved that escapes us all.

I read the full in-depth column from the Echo about our set-pieces dilemma and whilst I agree with it, it's very ignorant to ignore the lack of movement inside the box, the jostling to try and attack the ball and try to drag defenders and markers out the way.

Greg O'Keefe focuses on what a lot of fans do, the failure to beat the first man but as someone pointed out why can't that first man on the near post be an Everton player? Goals do get scored or created from deft near-post flick-ons do they not?

But again it's about the lack of movement and jostling inside the area; yes, our corners are poorly taken at tines but rather than just the taker, the guys inside the box need to get out of the comfort zone of just standing still like statues, it's too easy to mark for opposing defences.

If I was manager of any team, this would be one of the first things I would be making my players aware of.

Too much focus is on the taker but not the lazy bastards that just stand there static in the box..

MOVEMENT!

A very key word in football.

Yes Laurie I think Tim Cahill had pretty much mastered the fine arts of movement in the box, other examples like Gary Speed, Dave Watson, Duncan Ferguson, Kevin Campbell, or Joleon Lescott even had that canny knack.

Its hardly like we don't have lads there who can't do it if trained and encouraged correctly.

Funes Mori?
Lukaku?
Naismith when he plays?
Stones, big enough lad?
Even James McCarthy, big physical lad?!

It just need more time spending on.

No variation whatsoever, and never a quick short one, to catch out our opponents. Remember the roll back to Gary Stevens, in the eighties? Simple but very effective.

I agree!

The one part of O'Keefe's article though I do fully agree with is where is says it's unlikely to ever change with this current managerial philosophy, the day's when a ripple of excitement ran through Goodison from corner-kicks have long gone, maybe for good!