Ignominious defeat from the Jaws of Victory

I like Osman. But is he now the best that we can put on the bench? Why not a youngster?

Toffees 2 Hammers 0. That would be great. That would add a few coppers to my Cheltenham warchest. Lennon and Lukaku to also score ..anytime. Up the Toffees.

Wouldn't have made much of a difference if we'd had eleven men mind.

Rash by the first and poor decision-making from the second. Lennon our best player again and gets replaced. Loss of energy when he gets replaced. Awful game management...

Fuck the pair of them off please for all our sakes.

Why can we not defend leads?

I don't really blame Rom. I blame Kev. Another selfish act that's cost us points.

Mirallas ? I never want to see him in a blue shirt again... a disgrace to the club and his mates on the pitch. Fucking do one, Kev!

We played well, didn't deserve that but once again the nerves in front of the home crowd has just overcome the players.

Rom's got to put that penalty away though.

Never plays Niasse and Lukaku together then suddenly does it with 10 men.

Very poor from Ross and Oviedo for their equaliser.

That collapse – similar to the one early last season against Arsenal... except we drew! – will live long in the memory. And not for the right reasons. Ridiculous.

No matter how many goals we score this awful defending is never going to change. I shit myself every time the opposition gets a corner as we are all over the place. It's as if the defence has asked Martinez what he wants them to do and he has answered, "Well... erm, just keep it out."

Our defence is such a very good defence but there is no plan or structure in place for them to show this. Forget about the new investor as I think his arrival has glossed over the Martinez saga which rolls on yet again.

We just don't have the mentality to see out games.

It was a poor moment from Mirallas, a sloppy penalty from Rom, and some shocking management.

2-0 up with 10 men. If Lennon can't continue, it has to be Barry.

Time to go – just not good enough, especially as 4-4-1 was working perfectly well and we have 10 men.

This is the manager's fault: bigtime stupidity. Why the fuck bring on Barry for 5 minutes? To say that I am seething with anger is an understatement.

Mirallas can do one too – he really is one arrogant selfish prick.

Same old nonsense. Forget about missed penalties, one on ones etc, this team has a serious defect. The man responsible for that is the man in charge. Martinez has to go. I'm afraid he is not a winner.

In my opinion, we lost the game due to the substitution of Lennon and keeping Barkley on. He was a complete liability for the last 20 minutes, repeatedly giving the damn ball away and trotting back like a lame duck.

That's the 4th time this season we have thrown away a 2 goal lead, I can't take it anymore

If I was there now, if I could just get to speak to him I would rip into him...

You are clueless, Martinez../. absolutely clueless.

Why take off Lennon!!!!!!???? We were comfortable and we need our best players on the pitch when we are down to 10 men!!! He's a busy player, tracks back and defends, and has shed loads of experience!!!! Why bring on an inexperienced striker and change the system when things were working so well with 10 men!!!?? I despair!!

Even by your standards that was pretty special.

The last 24 months speak for themselves. We have been shocking. He has to go.

Do you remember Keegan resigning from England because he admitted he didn't now how to change a game with substitutions? At least he was honest!

About time you realised your not good enough for our great club and fell on your sword, Roberto.

Martinez out. Surely the new broom will have to sweep clean, starting with him.

The meaning of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

What a load of bollocks. The crowd were magnificent today which may not have been apparent in your armchair. The reason being that Everton for once were our of the blocks quickly. Any professional footballer who is nervous in front of such support is not worthy of the name, quite apart from the fact that it is, as I said, bollocks. The players responded to the crowd magnificently.

The turning point was not the sending off or even the missed pen, but taking off Lennon for Niasse who was a passenger and gave no outlet up front in the way Lennon had been all game. I'll give the lad the benefit of the doubt this time but effectively we were down to 9 men and yet again a Martinez team collapses and concedes three goals after the best home display of the season up until then.

But again, nothing will change, I'll guarantee you. Manager will keep his job, supporters won't demand anything. We accept where we are, a nothing club. We don't matter because we don't demand anything. The press doesn't care because we don't care. The Board doesn't care because we don't care.

So another loss at home. Another 2 goal lead thrown away. More shocking defending and shocking decisions from the manager. Another match where the lack of heart and fight and spine is clear to all. But that mentality comes from the manager, it's demanded from the manager in his players. But we have a weak manager, a relegation manager.

There's not really anything to play for for Everton in the PL this season now aside from trying to make top ten (shows how far we've slipped) but this summer is going to be interesting.

I really wanted to see Martinez do well but his decision making is killing us. I laughed at the Wigan comparisons but I laugh no more there is something seriously wrong with this team.

Unless we can draw with Chelsea and go to Stamford Bridge and win the replay, nothing left to play for!!!

When Moshiri's is officially confirmed he needs to sack Martinez and get a new manager in before the end of the season.

Won't happen? Not so sure after this latest collapse.

What crap will Martinez come out with this time. Bullock will be laughing all the way home. What a joke we are.

After 50 yrs supporting the toffees I can't recall a lower period, and that includes the bad years escaping relegation.

Just get rid of him now!!!!

Tell me a manager, any other manager, who takes his best player off in a game where every blue supporter could see something happening after the pen miss!!

I hope Mirallas feels like a c**t too! Coz he is a c**t!

The players really dug in to make a go of it after going down to ten men!! Then our own fucking manager shoots us in the bollocks!!

RM - for some reason you do not understand the realities of the game. As a lifelong Evertonian I believe you let us down beyond belief and suggest you resign. I have been a supporter of you but this has been the last straw. Many decisions you make lead to us throwing away games we are winning. Please go and help reduce my blood pressure....... and that of many others!

Oh where to start... I really thought we had it in us even after Kev got himself needlessly sent off but the wheels fell off as usual for this season. Royally pissed at Kev for getting sent off yet again and disappointed with Rom's penalty effort.

For me, that penalty save was the true turning point in the game. I think had he smashed that in West Ham's would've been down for the count.

I thought Roberto was spot on with the initial selection, the change in shape after Kev was sent off, and then the half-time subs and shape thereafter as well. Where he lost me was taking Lennon off...

I guess it was to keep his legs for the run of games!? I don't know.... but Niasse offered nothing. After West Ham's first goal I had that terrible feeling deep down inside that we were going to give up all the points.

Gutted...

What does is say of this team who have done it 4 bloody times so far this season........... I am truely lost for words at the moment

What an absolute disaster from Martinez who will say we were very unlucky. We are just unlucky to have this idiot still here as manager. Bringing on an unfit forward with no experience – outstanding decision, Martinez, truly outstanding.

Sack the idiot tonight and let's be done with it. Sheer stupidity.

Why change it and take off the one player who's making the team/system work (Lennon)?? Baffling.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Unfortunately you are right Colin.

You could see it coming once Lennon went off.

Can't see any positives all the time Martinez is manager.

There is no way RM is going to be managing Everton next season. Moshiri didn't get his billions tolerating incompetence and if he has ambitions to make Everton into a force again he needs a manager with a head on his shoulders and not some rubbish spouting fantasist.

Here's an idea. RM has a decent eye for talent. Offer him a job as a scout. Because that's what he is an over promoted scout.

That comment really came back to bite me today and it wasn't pleasant. West Ham were very ordinary and we had the game in the bag. I know that people have criticised Martinez substitutions this season, but today really took the biscuit. One of our most effective players today was Lennon and he got hauled for Niasse. Why???
Was he thinking of going for loads more goals!! It really does beggar belief.

We must always remember that this guy got his last team relegated. The only reason we are not in the same situation is because he has a better level of players to work with. As far as the new guy is concerned RM must be first out in the summer and a proven winner installed.

End of!!!

The substitution of Lennon should be the final nail in the coffin of the clueless charlatan masquerading as our manager.

One other thing, maybe Ross should have taken the pen and he was arguing with Rom about who was going to take it. Rom was far to casual with it.

In my heart, I was hoping I was over-reacting, but my head knew all too well that this was the realistic outcome. When Niasse came on for Lennon, I pulled a clump of hair out and that was the last patch I got left!

How utterly depressing this season is.

The substitution of Lennon by Niasse was utterly inexplicable and without question cost us the game. Seven home defeats and counting. Please get rid of this man.

The worse news I heard at the game from a couple of people in the know is that the news from Finch Farm is that Niasse is not very good, hope the news is wrong.

We would not have won had Lukaku scored the penalty, we would have lost 3-4...

The sending off naturally complicated things for us, all the more so given the imbalance of the starting line up and formation.

So the half time subbing in of Besic for Stones was a good one, as it allowed for a more balanced formation. Also, continuing to play Lennon in an advanced role alongside Rom was sound, signaling that Everton were not going to play attritionally for the entire 2nd half.

And ... it worked a treat! Lennon and Rom combined beautifully for the 2nd goal. Besic and McCarthy were showing some bite in midfield. Funes Mori and Jags were comfortably, really comfortably, repelling everything into our box.

Besic's clever skills won us a penalty (which was probably generous) ... and Rom's weak effort was the turning point in the game. That goes in and you would have to believe 'game over.' Rom has another great chance, blown.

Then with 15 to go the always industrious Lennon, our current talisman, is removed for the new boy ... 2 minutes later the Irons score and how many of us started to feel that old queasy feeling rising in the pit of the stomach once more?

Sure enough, within 5 minutes they level. In the dying embers of the game a nothing substitution, Barry for Rom and then, of course, right at the death the inevitable winner.

Having concentrated and played so well for 50 minutes after the sending off, it once again unravels from a comfortable winning position in just 12 minures.

Unlike some (as I am sure will be the case) I'm not laying this entirely at the door of the manager. Mirallas' actions left the team undermanned for the majority of the game. The first sub and jigging of formation at half time was a good and necessary and - as it initially proved - an effective one.

Rom's failure from the spot proved absolutely critical.

Withdrawing Lennon for Niase when he did was a more questionable change, given how hard Lennon works defensively for the team. The final sub was incidental in the final reckoning.

What a bizarre season. And what a truly appalling home record we now boast...

Substitutions????? No clue whatsoever!

Having said that, Lennon should never have been taken off, even a bit knackered he was key to how well we were playing.

Calls to just shut down the game seem to forget that's a lot harder with 10 men and a defence vulnerable to good crosses (showing by the way that Tim Howard is not the main reason for our vulnerability in that respect).

"Unbelievable! Believable"

From then on it was always going to be difficult BUT we had at least two chances to put away that weren't, a dreadful penalty by Lukaku?? We should have been winning 4/5 nil... but this is Everton, to lose 3 goals in the final 12 mins, Mother of God.. Barry and Besic should have come on for Barkley and Coleman who was utter tripe today.

Stones? sell him.
Coleman? sell him.
Mirallas? will never play another game with Martinez in charge.
Martinez? Please god go..
Oviedo? not good enough
McCarthy? not good enough
Del Boy? Where has he gone?

Too many let the team down today, Not enough bottle, not enough heart, not enough ability, its like watching a team of players who are thinking.. not my problem...

And I'd sell Mirallas too – even with his talent, he's a liability with a bad attitude.

The fucking idiot needs to go.

I've decided to support Leicester for the rest of this season, and have another go at being an Everton fan next season.

Martinez should have subbed him off before he got the second. But he did not so we go to ten men.

Then Martinez makes a good adjustment and we get the second. Awesome work Lennon.

Then we get the penalty, which we should not have gotten because it was outside the box. That and the miss after breaking away were really bad on Lukaku. In his defense, I thought he had an excellent game overall.

Both the Niasse substitution and the Barry substitution were bad decisions.

So another three points lost from a winning position.

However, the significance of his sending off becomes less and less significant as the game goes on especially when we score another and by rights should probably have been 4-0 up by the time he makes his catastrophic decision to take off Lennon who tied up two players with his pace and overall threat. Niasse strolled through the 17 mins he was on the pitch with barely a touch.

We have good players but a serial loser in charge of them.

Niasse has played a handful of minutes in the PL and our Bobby throws him into the cauldron taking out Lennon, one of our most experienced players. Osman for Lukaku/Barkley would have made more sense to solidfy the left but we don't get paid millions of pounds a year to see that.

I'm sure Bilic was laughing inside when he saw the sub.

RM will have an excuse for this game like he has had for every single surrender we have witnessed over the last 18 months.

We have no mental toughness and never seem to block crosses. Not sure how much longer the club can accept this league position and home form.

Today's game also told me that Robles is not ready to be a #1. We need to bring in a first class goalie in the summer among other things...

At least we had a week of optimism. Maybe we were being too greedy thinking we would win back to back games...

Welcome to Everton, Mr. Moshiri. Lots of garbage to clean out in the summer.

It is true that Mirallas was also a fool and that the penalty miss was crucial but the manager is paid a fortune to manage and he consistently fails to do so at even the basis defensive level.

He really must go.

Two positives: Lennon who was magnificent and Besic who will be an Everton great if he stays fit.

This is where he has no sense of game management, he hardly ever plays with 2 up front, but today he does it, with 10 men, 2-0 up with 20 minutes to go, and compounds it by taking off our best player, again.

The man is a clown. The best thing you can say about today is at least he's put another nail in his own coffin and will continue to do so until the end of the season. Even if, by some miracle, he wins the FA Cup, he should still be sacked due to Premier League results.

That one sentence should be read again and again...

If Ranieri can take Leicester to 1st place in 8-10 months after almost being relegated the previous year...

If Bilic can take West Ham within 1 point of 4th place after 8-10 months in charge and a team again not as good as ours...

Then how has Martinez got us to 11th in 2½ years? You have had your time Martinez, and so much longer than most other clubs would have given you. Please go now.

Please don't tell me we already have one!

But Niasse? It was such an odd change, and I thought as it happened "We're fucked". I'm gobsmacked and pissed off because I thought it was totally the wrong move, absolutely crazy – and events have proven me 100% correct.

I, as an armchair football fan, shouldn't be able to make better tactical decisions than Everton's massively remunerated manager. And yet, over the last 18 months, I find myself doing exactly that. It is enormously aggravating and frustrating. I'm no football genius or expert but that can't be right surely?

There is no use in constantly criticizing Martinez about his defensive failings or his game management as he will never change and this has been proven with 1 good season out of 7.

There may be a chance that we may qualify for Europe, but we not only have to rely on Everton improving we have to rely on teams above us loosing more than we win, and looking at the teams above us it is getting harder every week.

B.K. is rightly being praised for bringing in a new investor, but between the 2 of them they better realize that is the people who attend the games at Goodison who are the ones you have to please, because if not, a lot of the new T.V. funds is going to have to make up for loss of spectator revenue on match days.

My belly is going to churn listening to his syrupy Spanish bullshit in his post-match interview... probably telling us –yet AGAIN? – that Lennon was man of the match.

What a bollock-dropper, keeping an average player on like Mirallas, knowing another yellow will only lead to disaster! I mean he is not Messi, Ronaldo or Neymar!! He doesn't know his arse from his elbow!

Well, I will tell you something: this hombre is not going to spoil my Saturday night yet AGAIN!!! I am going to get it out of my head tonight to forget my grief that we got Wiganified by WHU.

Bollocks to the Taxi! Can somebody please call a laundry basket for Señor Martinez!

And bollocks to MotD!

I think Jags is too nice to be captain... and with Barry on the field surely we have the experience.

As soon as they scored 1 goal we knew we'd throw it away. I don't think you can blame the manager for that... but you can blame him for not preparing the team mentally.

What now for the rest of the season? We have to get through in the Cup and find our mental toughness to carry it on to next season. Writing off this season already is pathetic... Losing another game at home... Speechless really.

Mirallas off, annoying but we adjusted, no real problem as such.

2-0 no problem

Missed penalty, no real problem

Take Lennon off, problem

2-1 time to shut up shop, problem

2-2 panic, real problem

2-3 what a surprise, it's happened again!!!

Martinez has to go now, we need a new manager before the end of the season, to settle in before negotiating who goes and who stays. With the Euros as well there will be no time for a new manager to start a new season, half the squad will be given extended leave for playing in the euro's. So we will start the new season giving the new manager time to settle!

Then I woke up Martinez is still manager. Relegation here we come. Are we Wigan in disguise? Don't say we have better players, when Martinez can ruin any squad of players.

Martinez philosophy defies logic and he would drag down the best. Then again the best wouldn't employ him.

Do me a favour Roberto, resign. Dream over!!!

I've been a fairly staunch defender of Martinez for long periods, but today I've lost a lot of faith.

Season tickets will be half price at this rate; cheers, Bobby.

I wouldn't blame any player who put in a transfer request right now – they all know Martinez will not be sacked, the board are much too conservative for that, and if I were one of our talented squad, I would want to leave and find a club with a winning mentality.

I almost wish I could defect and find a different team to support, myself – but of course I can't.

This is the worst I've felt all season... Such a waste!

In the words of Martinez, INCREDIBLE .Nothing to do with him then. Defended well? Don't think so, mate. Concede 3 goals in last 12 minutes...

What an arsehole this guy is. Do we have any defensive coaches. Doesn't seem like we have.

Was he Watching the Man City v Aston Villa game from his iPad in the dugout because it wasn't the Everton game I saw today.

2-0 up and resisting west ham pressure this tactical genius takes the best player off. Okay if you bring Barry on as insurance – a calming influence. But no, this idiot brings on another forward and – hey presto – the opposition score 3 goals in 10 mins.

Maybe it was a blip, you'd maybe overlook it. But it isn't – it's a pattern. And if this idiot thinks it's the right way forward and won't change then my answer is "Get out now, Roberto, because every fan in that stadium can see right through you. You're incompetent and you're wasting a multi talented squad with naive and stupid tactics."

You've lost the crowd; it's only a matter of time before you lose your job as well.

I think that Ross Barkley has bundles of talent but there is another side to an inside forward's job, or number ten if you like that better. That is to run, to harry, to tackle, to show some drive when he hasn't got ther ball.

He is in danger of staying a luxury player. I think of Alan Ball, Colin Harvey well, there's loads of other good players to mention who didn't only do good things with the ball, but contributed their sweat till they dropped. Today, Ross didn't show any of these qualities, which I would consider essential, even if nothing is coming off for you, you can run, you can harry and you can tackle.
Ross, watch Aaron Lennon and learn.

Yes, the referee was too bad to be believed but he didn't lose us the match.

I think that Martinez has done some really good work in recruiting good young players both in the first team and those awaiting their chances to come. He has us playing some really attractive football and we score loads of goals. But, there are certain weaknesses that continue to show

However today wasn't just a one off. If Aaron Lennon was shattered and couldn't run another step, I could see a reason for taking him off. But he was running round like the Road Runner and was the man of the match for us.

I thought that Rossd Barkley was contributing very little and it would have made sense to me, to make a decision to bring Barry on, instead of Ross,to ensure that we did not give the Cockneys any time on the ball. Allowing Besic and James Mac to harry further forward

Once he took Aaron off, he may as well held a placard up and said, "Ok Hammers, here's your chance".

I think Rom did a bit of posing for the Penalty, instead of belting it but his all round play was excellent. That probably gave a lifeline to West Ham but our substitutions contributed more to the defeat than Rom's failure from the spot.

I think that when the new shareholder takes up the reins, he may give Martinez the next season to achieve certain targets. I think though, without a doubt he will have goals set that all the staff must achieve, the primary responsibility will belong to the manager and he will be given targets to meet and a schedule in which to meet them. On present form, he will not likely meet those targets and a new manager will be appointed.

I've got the stage now if we lose then hopefully it's another step towards him being shown the door. What winds me up more than anything is our fans aren't vocal or nasty about it all, when they bloody should be especially at home... 7 defeats at home is simply tripe.

What other chairman in world football would put up with this dreadful home record? I just hope there's no so-called war chest for this clown because I dread to think what he'd do with it.

Bottom half of the table with probably the best squad in years and a manager who doesn't know how to manage a game. Any other club would have got rid long ago; we should be looking for someone now for next season.

Mohammed Haroub, you are spot on. Any manager with a new owner coming in would do everything in his power to see the game off but Roberto, has suicidal (professional wise) tendencies IMO. He seems determined to shoot himself in the foot for no reason whatsoever. I wonder what the word for lemming is in Spanish.

I went to Villa on Tuesday and we looked ropey there in the last minutes. I have NEVER witnessed any team EVER that has been so adept at squandering winning position's with such regularity.

Martinez apparently has 'a bigger pond to fish in' now Moshiri is on board... never mind 'fishing'. Moishiri's first task should be to send this fool to go and play marbles on the M5. The last eight home games in the Premier League read W1 D2 L5. This clown has to go!

I thought Lukaku had a barn stormer, but the pen miss blotted his copy book. The haters have had their daggers drawn on the man but it is extremely harsh to criticise him. He did well and I agree with those pundits who made him MotM.

As for Martinez, I have no doubt he will be devastated, and he should be, as for 3/4 of the game he got his tactics spot on.

He then, unfortunately, succumbed to his tendency to self-destruct. A tendency stretching back to Crystal Palace at home in 2014 when he changed a winning side, to Kiev away when Alcaraz started, to this season with the persistence with Howard, to WBA and WHU – with the substitutions.

This is not a manager who understands how to see a game out. His record of throwing away leads is now setting hard in stone.

He is, to put it simply, far too incompetent to be managing Everton FC. He has 250 games + of PL experience. He might have been managing a weaker team for some of those games, but he must surely know enough about the league to be able to devise plans to see out games.

That he is developing a very poor habit of not being able to do so is absolutely a sign that Martinez is nothing more than a lower mid table specialist, who has the ability occasionally to mastermind a half decent cup run.

As for our home form, it is not acceptable under any circumstances for us to have lost so many home games. It is even more galling to have chalked up the latest home defeat when 2-0 up with 3/4 of the game gone.

This result, and the manner in which victory was thrown away, is a perfect encapsulation of Roberto Martinez management capability. He and his team flatter to deceive and, lurking beneath the surface is a clear mental fragility.

If Moshiri is given the green light, my first advice to him would be to sack Martinez, and sack him now. There are a host of better managers that Moshiri should be able to attract. Mihajlovic at Milan, Mancini, Sampaioli, Eddie Howe, Claudio Ranieri, Koeman, Simeone. We should have a good transfer pool to offer, a big wage budget, a potential new stadium in a few years, a passionate fan base and a very good squad.

Martinez is not good enough for Everton Football Club and must go.

Perhaps we should do a mass walkout in protest against Martinez to see if anyone will listen? Why can't he just go and stop putting us through this pain, week-in & week-out.

He is ruining us and has been for a long while now. The idea that he should have yet more time or that Kenwright simply won't sack him and, therefore, that we should all accept the inevitable is something we have to reject and loudly so.

This is a test for the new regime (assuming that it does indeed arrive). Is the inert hand of Kenwright still decisive? We must all hope not and we should be agitating to get the manager out of our club immediately.

Let's just get rid, he just can not learn.

The arse completely fell out of that game after Lennon was subbed, any recurring pattern emerging here I wonder.

Lennon plays few games before Christmas, we leak endless stupid goals and lose, Lennon plays more game's after Christmas and we had suddenly started to look more solid, Lennon doesn't play in the second leg of the League Cup Semi at City, look what happened, Lennon was subbed today at 2-0... Look what happened.

To me Lennon is our ONLY attacking player that will work his socks off on a game by game basis, you know you will always always get a 110% shift from Aaron Lennon.

Once Lennon went off the very least Niasse could have done was move a bit but he looked like he was wearing metal boots, early day's but his lack of mobility, control was concerning.

League is over now anyway, dead and buried Martinez you soft dick, we just piss away endless leads and our home record is the worst I can ever remember.

If Moshiri is the real deal and not just some cowboy the first thing he'll do is get a manager that's fits the bill of challenging for success at least.

The Chelsea game next week will no doubt end our interest in this season, no matter how Chelsea play we will assist them with our usual playground defending.

Lessons learned?. Warm weather training?

Clearly Dubai doesn't have any answer's to teaching professional footballers how to not keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again.

Martinez has done some good things for our club eg, putting together a good squad of players which plays some good attacking football. But, mid-table mediocrity is about the limit of where he's going to take us. It's painful watching these capitulations game after game. This is his third year in charge and I'm afraid he's ran out of excuses.

I believe with the right manager here, this group of players could achieve great things. Do the right thing Moshiri, sack this clown!

To be fair Lennon was worn out running but so was Rom, if he was going to bring someone off for Niasse then it should have been Rom. At the least he should have brought on Del for Lennon to keep West Ham occupied.

Ross was awful and seems to have given up. We could have beaten West Ham today with ten men so Mirallas going off is a red herring to a degree. This season has been a shambles at home and the £ per win ratio suggests 5% off the season ticket is nowhere near the sort of discount that should be in place.

Thoroughly fed up and wondering if the money spent on the ticket for the Chelsea game is just throwing good money after bad for more of the same disappointment.

How can anyone know what would have happened if he had brought Barry on for Lennon? Perhaps going defensive then would still have resulted in them scoring 3; don't forget it was 11 against 10 and many of our players would have been exhausted in the latter stages no matter who came on. If he had gone defensive and we had still lost there would be loads criticising that.

Could he have left Lennon on? Well that would mean Rom would have gone but apart from the penalty miss had he done a lot wrong when that substitution was made? Ronnie Goodlass didn't think so and actually thought we lost an important aspect of our play when he was swapped for Barry.

The manager's options were limited because of the sending off and he simply tried to keep the attacking outlets at a time when we were handling their attack pretty well. I have not agreed with a lot of his substitutions (either the timing or the personnel involved) but I think the main failings today have to be Mirallas's red card and Rom's penalty miss, both of which the manager has no direct control of.

It has taken three years but he had turned a solid, defensively sound team with a good home record and seven consecutive top eight finishes behind them into a team that can throw away games from any position, concedes goals by the bucket load and can't win at home for love nor money.

He's been given time and money but clearly has us on a downward trajectory. He has to go. The biggest indictment on our current position is that today's events are no surprise. I'm sure there are thousands of Everton fans who, like me, knew we were not going to win the game as soon as West Ham made it 2-1. We are so soft and lacking in character it's unreal.

"You are winning 2-0 even though one of your players has been sent off. Which one of the following people would not take off their best player to replace him with an untried centre-forward and further expose your already tiring midfield and defence;

A) Coco the Clown

B) A town centre drunk

C) Roberto Martinez

D) A football manager

"Anyone who is happy to settle for mediocrity should be sacked immediately."

With Martinez, sure we'll play some sexy attacking football but we will only ever be destined for mediocrity.

Today would be easier to take if we had not repeated the same thing time and time again this season.

I thought I'd seen it all after Bournemouth, then was left gobsmacked after the Stoke 3-4 reverse at Christmas and then there was arguably even worse to come after the Chelsea game at Stamford Bridge...

Now today..

You simply cannot lose a home game that you are 2-0 up in with 78 minutes on the clock, no matter how many men you lose..

But Everton Football Club of 2016 under Roberto Martinez can..

Keep Martinez next season then I'm afraid you are doing nothing but asking for more of the same...

You don't need a crystal ball to look back on what we could have done better, that's what that buffoon in the dugout is paid a king's ransom to do.

In game management.

Martinez does not have a clue what he's doing, and for 2 year's he has not had a clue what he's doing, this my friend is plain and simple FACT..

The Wigan fan's warned us this would eventually happen, we just didn't want to believe it at the time.

The term 'cave in' comes to mind. Is this always down to bad coaching? They have talent but may lack the ugly side of defending.

Mirallas's stupidity and Rom's shocking penalty did not help the manager today but he is way out of his depth and needs to be shown the door immediately. I just pray our new investor is ambitious and will get rid of this charlatan.

This man is the stupidest, inept, thick, stubborn and frustrating knob head of a manager I've ever come across.

Yes, the players were also to blame; yes, we had bad luck with the penalty miss and Mirallas sent off... but, to be frank, it's the same story pretty much every week now unless we're playing absolute no-hopers.

1. We start well, we create chances and get in a leading position.

2. Then the opposition changes tactical approach or shows some resolve or gets a bit of luck.

3. Martinez changes absolutely nothing till around the 60-70 minute mark at which point he usually makes what is plainly the worst substitution option which rarely if ever has any positive impact on the game and is usually playing someone poor (Kone) or out of position in favour of the till then most dangerous player on the pitch.

4. The team loses its way tactically and/or runs out of steam physically

5. Leading position turns to draw or defeat.

6. Martinez trots out some bullshit afterwards about how we're learning, how proud he was of the performance, and how unlucky we were.

7. Repeat ad infinitum, ad nauseam (unless we are lucky enough to meet a team who is so bad they aren't able to change/show resolve).

Yes he's been good at attracting some good players and yes the football matches we're in are more exciting (especially for neutrals), but this isn't enough.

He's tactically naïve, doesn't have a clue on how to close a game out or make the right changes tactically or in personnel and despite spending far more money he's taken the team backwards in terms of fitness, mentality and ultimately results.

Two wasted seasons is enough. Next!!!

I don't wanna scored 3 goals a game and get fuck all out of most of them 14 times this season we've scored 3 or more in a game and we are in the bottom half, 1-0 would be great.

In the end we succumbed to our weak centre but being a man short meant that may have happened anyway. I'm worried about Stones, I'm worried that RM won't use Besic.

Very disappointing today but when you lose a player early due to stupidity and then miss a penalty, winning is going to be difficult.

If there is one person who has got away with murder it is him, turned one of the best defences in the league to one of the worst. This profile from Everton's website doesn't indicate any evidence of suitability for this role apart from being a previous Martinez Yesman.

"Dennis Lawrence joined Everton as first-team development coach in July 2013.

A former Trinidad and Tobago international with over 80 caps to his name, he spent five years in defence for Wrexham as his career in the UK commenced.

Lawrence played under Blues boss Roberto Martinez at Swansea from 2006, going on to win the League One title in 2007/08.

"Spells at Crewe Alexandra and San Juan Jabloteh followed before retirement and a first foray into coaching. A trial coaching period at Wigan saw Martinez formally appoint him to his backroom team in October 2010."

Once in a season is forgiveable... maybe twice at a stretch, but we must be at 20 points lost now in terms of losing / drawing from winning positions.

If I was our new investor, I wouldn't trust Martinez with a penny of my money. New manager – first priority in the summer.....

You're a bloody disgrace, Martinez.

2. Lennon was the best player on the pitch, taking him off was way too soon in the match.

3. The elephant in the room is Ross Barkley. If you want to shut up shop, he is the player to take off. He's a class attacking player, but when we are the under the cosh, he's a passenger.

With Mirallas off, and the new lad way off the pace, we handed the initiative back to a decent team. This is arrogant, stupid and incompetent and a repeat of Stoke etc. We must have blown 20 odd points from performances that merited a win.

4. As a fan of Welsh rugby, it is clear subs win games, and you'll do nothing without a good defence. Martinez is useless at both and should be fired. He has assembled a decent team on paper, but crap on grass.

Adios, Bobby.

Get him out and get him out now he is a cancer in this team.

I picked these stats up from elsewhere regarding our home form or should that be our lack of home form?!

P - 15
W - 4
D - 4
L - 7
for 29 against 26

16 Points

It has been patently obvious that he was not the man to take us forward for some months now (January 2015 was when I made my mind up). It's been obvious since before then that he is incompetent at managing a football match.

A few glossy wins against (mainly) lowly opposition only papers over the cracks.

For those who still believe he should be given more time, well, your allegiance should be with Everton FC, not RM.

There's an evidence-based argument for getting rid but I can't be bothered arguing the toss any more unlike in the past. There's none so blind as those who can't see. And they bore me as much as a Roberto Martinez interview.

New era, new ambition, new manager.

Bravo for mentioning McCarthy in your list, as I was afraid to mention him for fear of ridicule. You can also include Robles in your list, as he is an average keeper, ex-Wiganite and like others? He simply has not got the class for a team like EFC.

Given our promise of resurgence with the recent boardroom business, along with Kone and Osman, there is so much deadwood in the team we could at last have a bbq at the end of the season!

John Austin (164) don't do it mate – spend your money on something less painful like dental surgery.

Do yourself a big favour by using some of the dosh to get rid of the incompetent and naïve clown. Please do this sooner rather than later.

As already said on here, if you want to see the difference a good manager can make, then look no further than Leicester City or West Ham Utd.

Now if my wife, who's only been watching football for 5 years, can spot that, why can't our overpaid fake manager?

The guy is a joke and needs to be gone. We are going to end up finishing in 15th the way it's headed. Why am I paying for travel, hotel rooms and getting served up with this shit week after week? I must be crazy.

I am done with this clown. I am not going to another game while he is in charge. Don't get me wrong... I fucking love Everton FC – it's our club. This clown has got to go. I can't take any more.

If getting beat by Chelsea next week accelerates his departure, it would be well worth it. Let's face it, a victory would only paper over the cracks.

At half-time, we all felt he needed to take Stones off and bring Besic on, which he did.

We miss a penalty and then he takes Lennon off, who had been our best player, when with Song's introduction, West Ham are starting to get a grip in midfield and our esteemed manager brings on a striker who has pretty much no Premier League experience.

Yet again, I leave the game raging and flabbergasted by RM and his decisions!

Will the real Mr Moshiri please stand up and take control over this asylum? This is doing my head in...

However Now there's a new investor in the club though we could possibly manager and offer him a really good squad plus a decent kitty to challenge for the top 4. After another performance like today's I wouldn't mind to see Roberto go

Who to come in though?

Pellegrini? He's available and proven at the top level. He wouldn't have to relocate

Mourinho? Would he be attracted by taking a former great team back to greatness?

Eddie Howe? Everton fan and a genuinely exciting young British manager.

Unai Emery? He'd surely like a punt in the EPL.

Marcelo Bielsa? Ditto

Counts for nothing, I know, and I'm not using it to support Martinez.

14 months after the West Brom debacle, when the players were arguing over who should take the pen, proves Martinez has no control at Everton.

FFS, who takes the penalties is sorted out in the dressing room before the game, even at Sunday league level!!! The man needs to go.

The very thought that our new investor would want the bewildered, inept, arrogant, out-of-his-depth, fraudster as coach is mind boggling.

Bedrooms at our training ground? That is the legacy of this utterly useless second rate, relegation-haunted half-wit. He is finished.

Mirallas is simply a hot-headed idiot. Martinez still does not understand what you do when you are two-up... Help!

I can't believe it and thought the atmosphere at full time was surreal.

From where I was sat, I thought the ref was talking into Rom's ear for quite a few minutes before he took that pathetic penalty.

Another week not watching MotD...

He makes Mike Walker look like Alf fucking Ramsey.

In short, we're mentally weak – too quiet, too fragile, naive in the extreme, truly dumb, no leadership at all.

(Besic looks like it really fucking matters, but he's one player)

And anyone who believes our problems can be solved by playing this feller instead of that feller or substituting this feller for the other feller, is equally naive.

Yes, okay, I thought Lennon going off worked against us (and thought he was excellent) but that is secondary for me – too often it's like watching simple children against knowing adults and we...are the children.

There will be no change to the current pattern until someone comes up (in!) with a plan that combines brains, skill, concen-fuckin-tration and physicality in equal measure.

Until that happens, it's just going to be more and more and more of the same – ie: "Fuck knows what will happen today in football."

The Spanish Mike Walker won't be going anywhere soon (imo) so don't let it wreck your health gentlemen.

Now, I'm off to the pub!

The frustration is that, since the inception of the Premier League, I've seen us played off the park so many times by the great Arsenal & Man Utd teams, even Kevin Keegan's Newcastle killed us one game (which ironically we drew), but the only team that's playing us off the park is.... Everton.

There are times I wish that I couldn't care less about football.

It's ceasing to be about the team's performance it's now about results! Whether it's team selection, substitutions, defending or game plans is starting not to matter.

It's happened too often for it to be somebody else's fault.

If there is an underlying cause it's, for me, about a manager who talks about everything except winning. It's about players being in a good moment, players enjoying their football and players be ready to help the team.

The bottom line is that with all great managers, on top of employing the carrot and the stick, fostering a parent child relationship or whatever other motivating techniques else the team should be shit scared of losing because they know there will be unwanted repercussions.

I always have the feeling with Martinez that instead of bollocking whoever need to be bollocked he resist it because he has a fear of putting the players "in bad moment". It's probably also again hid nature.

Today they played really well and the turning points were the Mirallas sending off but almost more importantly the crap penalty. Whether Lennon was a knackered as Martinez say he was I don't know but I would have wanted to see him pretty well knackered before he won't off - he was that good!

The point is this can't go on. For the remaining time he's here he should start demanding wins from his team or else! But, of course, he won't. Change, of whatever sort, is going to be a long time coming.

Thank god for the away record, or we'd down there with the Villa. I wouldn't buy a Season Ticket for next season if he's still there, no matter how cheap they sell them (I've had one since 1974).

Maybe we should arrange a walk out protest at the next home game!

As he walked up today, I was only confident of one outcome: by the law of shit penalties, he was due a miss, and yes, it was to be.

He'll miss his next one too..

So, Bobby, you're down to 10 men, but you're well on top and looking good for another win, with 20 minutes to go. So what should you do? Bring on a holding midfielder such as Barry perhaps? Or maybe Baines on at lef-back and push Oviedo further forwards?

No, you do neither; you take off our best player in Lennon, who's great going forward and tracking back, and has covered every blade of grass, and is having probably his best game in a blue shirt, and replace him with a forward who played about 2 minutes in the Premier League since you signed him....

There's no way West Ham will overrun us in midfield now.....

Half-way on my 270-mile trip home, and with time to reflect, our only poor performer was Niasse who declared when he signed that he is a player who works hard for the team but was bone idle today with a poor touch.

What you need when down to 10 men is workers. Rom and Aaron worked like dogs and they needed to stay on. As soon as Aaron went off, they had too much space to play in.

Having played well for 75 minutes, we fell apart defensively – could be blamed on so long with 10 men... and concentration went.

Very disappointing but today surely showed why Roberto won't play Kev – he can't be trusted!

Oh – and we need a keeper; West Ham have a good one...

That's the way, in RM's head, to justify himself as a top European coach. The consequence is that he misses what is in front of his eyes and fails to react or, more importantly, he fails to leave well alone when that is the right thing to do.

I think he went with Niasse precisely because it was counter-intuitive and so it might be hailed as a tactical masterstroke. We know the rest.

Why take Lennon off? He seemed to be causing huge problems for them on the left side, and that said I would of given him the ball more often and told him to push on 'Antonio' (who was on a yellow) but no... our manager takes him off and relives that threat down the side?!?

Secondly, why take Rom off? He is our target man (taking him off, we had nobody to hit the ball to).

Thus, the blame for me lies here with Martinez and his subs. (Personally, I would of taken Barkley off and put on magic man through the centre.)

Niasse was hugely disappointing. (From my seat he looks extremely skinny, and that was shown as he got knocked off the ball a couple of times.)

After the game, a West Ham fan said to me 'That Mirallas is a hothead' and I have to agree with him; there was a sliding tackle he did near our own box when he was on a yellow card, and I thought at the time he is going to get another yellow; now if I was thinking that... surely Martinez would?!?>

Again, every time I have gone to Goodison Park this season in the Premier League we have lost – Man City, Swansea and now West Ham; maybe it is just me?

It sounds like Martinez had his hands tied in terms of substitutions to some extent with Mirallas losing his head, but It seems perplexing that he brought on Niasse for Lennon.

Isn't Niasse meant to be a grafter who makes up for technical short comings?! That's the impression I get of him as a player who has arrived into the game late. He can also play as a winger like Lennon so on paper I can see the sense of it to some extent. That said, he's untried in this league and it seems stupid to put on a player who is an unknown quantity at such a pivotal point in the game.

Again, I didn't see the game, but logic would say we should have just got all the men behind the ball after going 2-0 up, especially with 10 only men on the field. The game was always going to become more stretched and I get the impression one of the problems with this team is that the players run out of steam in the 2nd half with this system Martinez persists with. I'd be interested to see where we'd be in the league table just on first half performances.

I can't think of any other rational explanation for using such an inexperienced substitute, as part of a from two, in such a critical situation when we were down a man. Perhaps the deeper thinkers on here who can sum up so much in one word could help us out?

Spot on; evidences the issue very well.

But oh that penalty miss. Oh those crosses we conceded from (again). And worst of all that substitution, both in terms of taking Lennon off and in terms of his replacement (effort wise and tactically); instead, at that time, Ross was totally fucked and should have been hooked, with Barry coming on at that point.

So so sorry for the lads who played well.

Another sickening defeat.

We have talented players but they are unfit, mentally weak (apart from Besic and Lennon) and unorganised. All of which is the manager's responsibility.

I have said it before – all Martinez teams finish the season lower than the season before. If he stays, next season will be a relegation battle.

MARTINEZ.

What the fuck is he doing???

So this season he would be paying us to manage the team. That would be justice for all the Everton fans and for Martinez.

"Who's apologising, Darren "#220

It wasn't your post I was referring to Gavin, or even necessarily this thread. but if the cap fits.

If you really cant see any posts defending Martinez on this thread you may want to try specsavers.

Well as you've felt the need to quote me -If a player gets sent off midway through the 1st half, of course it's going to have some impact on the game plan and substitutions for the remainder of the game. That's not defending the manager. That's just stating the bloody obvious.

But if it makes you happy I'll make my stance unequivocally clear. I want Martinez replacing in the summer unless there's a major sea change in form. And this is something we all know isn't going to happen.

It's Ronald Koeman or Eddie Howe for me, because we won't get Mourinho.

Reading the posts which have for most of the season been vehemently anti Martinez, would make your mind up about your first critical decision when taking control or being in a position to influence a decision.

2 nil up coasting, shut up shop pack the midfield, the guy has toatally lost the plot, with bringing a striker on.

Cannot add anything new to previous spot on posts, he has to go.

Also that mid-table is completely unacceptable for a team of Everton's stature and finally set out a yardstick for any future employee, either playing or non playing, that second best just will not be tolerated.

For Everton, it really is time to slam the gauntlet down. Hopefully the man has come for that time.

I didn't feel the need to quote you. Given what you had said, you rather bizarrely challenged me to point a post out who had defended the manager

You are defending him again even when you tell us didn't see the game. Take a look at what the people who did see it are saying.

His benched did not change, therefore neither did his choice of replacement. but here's the thing . . . Substitutions involve two players and Martinez was the only man inside Goodison who thought it was a good idea to take Lennon off.

Just because I'm not shouting 'Martinez Out' or saying he's the worst manager in our history means in shape or form I'm defending him.

Where have I said the substitutions were wrong or that I disagreed with anyone else on the thread? Give your head a wobble.

Would send an electrifying jolt through the whole club and hopefully shock us all out of 30 years of apathy and acceptance of mediocrity.

When Evertonians everywhere are shaking their heads at the stupidity of the manager's substitutions. You pleaded that he "had his hands tied"... then you came on #220 demanding to know who had made excuses for him.

Yes, it was a gutting result, made even worse by the lateness of the goals, and there have been too many of those in the last 18 months, but having just watched the whole game on Sky I contend that this game cannot simply be likened to every other bad result we have experienced under Martinez on what is circumstantial evidence.

We were the better team and deservedly ahead until Mirallas was sent off. West Ham then came into the game for the remainder of the first half. So the manager changed the set-up at half time and that worked brilliantly. So much so that we were better than them with 10 men and could have pretty much sewn up the game if the penalty had been converted.

Aaron Lennon had a very good game today but he was not the only one. He actually did very little in the 10 minutes before he was subbed except marginally under hit a through ball for Lukaku. To suggest we crumbled defensively or lost our attacking potency because he was off the pitch is pure imagination and it is just as likely that the players lost their focus purely because we had had to work harder than we should have for 40 minutes between the sending off and their first goal.

Niasse did alright for me considering he was there mainly to keep them stretched at the back, and might have contributed more but for a poor pass over the top and a foul when he was chasing a decent ball. Ross Barkley went to pot a bit in the last 10 but had done little wrong up until then and still produced some good things between giving the ball away three times (none of which actually led to a goal for them that I remember).

At 2-2 we were denied a stonewall penalty when the defender leant towards Besic's shot. That may have won the game for us. People are complaining about not shutting up shop earlier; it is funny how often people have been calling for only one defensive midfielder on the pitch and yet today three is the magic number apparently. None of us even know if Gareth Barry is carrying a niggle. Perhaps bringing him on was literally the last thing the manager wanted to do.

Sorry Andy, Martinez may not be the man for the job but when you look closely at what actually happened today it is very hard to be so sure his direct interventions definitely cost us the game today.

I thought Roberto actually made a smart move at half time, reverting to a back four replacing Stones with Besic. For 75 minutes even with 10 men we bossed the game. The work rate was fantastic and we were the better team. The best atmosphere at a game all season for 75 minutes.

The Lennon sub was bemusing, not because I think Lennon wasn't ready to come off, he had worked his bollocks off. It was replacing him with Niasse not Barry. Surely at 2-0 you bring on an experienced defensive midfielder over an untried forward. As it turns out Niasse was fucking awful, if that's a £13m player Kone must be worth £40m.

I actually had some sympathy with the team today. There were some really good individual performances, I thought McCarthy was outstanding. But of course you can only bemoan luck for so long.

This team lacks steel and a winning mentality, they are a reflection of our manager. And that won't change.

Saying all that I can still see us beating Chelsea next week. Such is the Martinez way.

Yes, I said Martinez's hands were tied to some extent because of Mirallas being sent off early doors. There's no backtracking here.

You don't think the the likes of Lennon and Rom were fucked having to to do more work for the idiot who got sent off?? That's not making excuses for the manager. His substitutions were clearly wrong and I never said otherwise.

I didn't see the game so how could I defend Martinez. If you read my post again #218 I said the logic would have been to sit back with everyone behind the ball after going 2-0 up with only 10 men.

You said people were making excuses again #220 and I was asked you who they were. So who are these people out of the 200 or so posts, Darren??

You cannot possibly know that we would have been better off by keeping Stones on.

It is questionable to say Stones is a better defender in the air anyway.

For me, there must of been one post match reporter, just fucking one, who must of asked Martinez; "Please tell me why you continue to lose games when you are 2 nil up?".

A great performance for 75 minutes with a great crowd roaring the team on and Martinez does what he has done so often this season, makes a very poor substitution and loses the game in twelve minutes, terrible. But, like Graham says, we will probable win next week versus Chelsea but I for one wouldn't bet on it with this man in charge. I hope you got home safe, Dave.

Specsavers?

Si
you defend the manager by saying that we couldn't possibly know what would have happened, if he stayed on or was replaced by Barry. Now you're saying the same about Stones.

What we do know for a fact is that Funes Mori was murdered for all three crosses and Stones couldn't possibly have done any worse, we also know that Niasse didn't do enough to qualify for a nightmare.

I think we can safely say the manager couldn't have got it any... err, wronger

It was watching West Ham knowing (all game) to keep crossing balls into the box, bothered me.

Roberto needs to have a Come-to-salvation moment or we need someone new.

Despite the result it was actually worth it. As you and Graham have said for 75 mins we were really very good and I have not heard Goodison as good as that Ian long time.

This is what frustrates about Roberto – he is very good at attacking play and he can spot a player (must give Niasse time to be fair) but he continually falls down with poor defence and game management and the time is surely here when we wonder if he actually "has it". It has become urgent because with the new financial muscle we could be challengers next season provided we keep our young stars together and I fear that Rom will want out.

I have laid out my reasons for my opinion. Watch the whole game again. Aaron Lennon did practically nothing in the 10 minutes before he was subbed. Even when he went off we made some very good chances that could have won the game for us.

What exactly did Niasse do wrong? I didn't see him miss any sitters and nor did he pass up any obvious opportunities to make a telling defensive contribution. Within seconds of coming on he made an intelligent and well timed run to beat the offside trap but the chip for him to run onto was over hit. Another time a clumsy foul prevented him from running onto another opportunity to attack.

If Lennon wasn't blocking attempted crosses before he went off ( and he wasn't) and yet we were still largely untroubled at the back why was it imperative that Gareth Barry should be the one to replace him, especially as we don't know that Barry was 100 % fit today?

These seem like reasonable questions to me and I'd personally rather always be interested in the facts of the matter rather than simply jumping to the conclusion that this defeat is just like every other one under Martinez.

Having watched the highlights I don't actually disagree with anything he's posted and he has given a more balanced post then just saying things like Martinez is the worst manager in Everton's history – He clearly isn't the worst just on the basis of what he did in his 1st season and the players he's signed.

I think there's no way back for Martinez now and he'll be gone in the summer. I'll be thankful of the side he's put together and I hope we can hold on to Rom, but if not, we at least get the £65m fee the club have valued him at.

A few things:
Mirallas red, disappointed, but I don't fault the player for trying his best. The card for the dive was stupid but possibly harsh also.
Lukaku pen miss, horrible by all accounts especially with 20/20 hindsight. Bad effort but at the time, we're still 2-0 up. Same after his miss. He needs to be criticized but misses happens. I'm not going to bury him just for it.

Frail defense. Credit to West Ham, they kept pounding the way they did and leading to their scoring. Could Lennon have helped? We'll just be second guessing now because the goals happened right after he got subbed. But still, we're playing an open game up throughout. rm didn't try to defend more. He won't! We survived 75 mins of bombing, who would have guessed otherwise (other than the pessimistic me).

Niasse, why rm thinks he can cover Lennon's duties, we'll never know. Del couldn't, how can Niasse who never really played more than some pathetic sub mins? Especially with 10 men?

Barry in the last min? Absolute nonsense. If we're to park a bus, park it when we're 2-0 up. And who expects a last minute change to get us a goal? Only manager who I can think of is SAF and he has deep pockets.

My stand is still that I don't expect Moshiri to do anything till the summer. Let's hope that he is astute in football as he is in business and opt for a manager change for one of a higher caliber. How Rudi Garcia (credit other commenters to throw his name up weeks ago) remains unemployed is another mystery to me.

I don't blame Stones for playing as he does not make the decisions. However, with apologies to those who rate him and who seem to think Stones walks on water (although I bet even then he stops, does a few turns, looks at the clouds, and recites some current song, checks his stocks and then continues), Stones should never set foot on the pitch without a 3-0 lead with less than 10 minutes. Sorry, I know you English rate him highly but if he were any other nationality he would be out on loan to a League 1 team learning how to do his job.

Feel sorry for Robles as at some point the frustrated armchair coaches will start questioning why he isn't doing his job and the defenders' jobs too.

Truth is Leadership can be that obvious but mostly it's quieter, more subtle and here's the thing, I think that Martinez quietly instills in his team's the thought that it's okay to lose if your hard done by or in general fortune isn't on your side. He genuinely thinks it's okay to lose when you have been brave and the ref had a stinker because, obviously, it's not your fault it is it.

This defeat was about leadership or lack of it on and off the pitch. It's also about stubbornness. I honestly believe Niasse came on because it was the "plan" for him to do so, and once it's in the plan, that's the way it goes, no what matter is actually happening in the game. At two nil with 15 mins of normal time the game management so obviously suggested Barry for Barkley it wasn't true. It was glaring, it was screaming... shut it down, get men behind the ball, stop the crosses, slow it all down. Barry. He may have been under the weather but clearly he was okay to do 20 mins or so inc time added on. Lennon was knackered, yes, but he was the guy giving us shape and defensive doubling up so let him ease back from forward okay and sit him in there in front of the right back. Glaringly obvious.....

Jags is another of our "nice" guys, like the manager, he refuses to see what's just in front of his nose. Yes the game turned on that penalty miss. But it wasn't a lost cause until three crosses later the defence he marshals failed in such miserable fashion.

Funes Mori undid most of his excellent season today and before I get jumped all over let me say why. It's because he's been found out. He is a solid enough defender but bizarrely his weak point is positioning when under aerial bombardment... he doesn't get off the ground because I honestly don't think he sees the flight of the ball well enough... crazy ? Look back at some of the goals conceded this season, there's a few to choose from, where Funes Mori and Stones seem to both go for the same ball... and miss it.

We are back in a mess now. What does the mgr do for the cup game ? Drop Funes Mori and play Stones in a back four I guess but then that would appear "disloyal" so I'm not holding my breath. Funes Mori has had some great games but I'm wondering if he's actually better at left back in terms of defensive solidarity ? He would mean little going forward tho and that's a problem. I think Oviedo has done well since he came in for what we now know to be a Bainsey struggling with post op pain and not really 100% but he should get his place back against Chelsea. And as for Coleman it's simple really, he is a genuinely top attacking right back when allowed the space but as, er, an actual, defender?

The really sad thing is that the investment excitement that has so,lifted the club contains a simple message which to me is that with Bill as Chairman this manager will never be sacked and we will just go on seeing these appalling capitulations and a lot more nonsense beside.

The intensity of the anger, the sheer bloody gut wrenching disappointment is hard to explain. But we can only hope for an out of character performance next week and a cup win to give us something, tho not that much in my view, to cheer during a pathetic season when an amazingly promising squad's talent was squandered due to poor and ultimately very stupid stubbornness from a highly paid manager who lost his way 18 months ago and has been allowed to stay lost.

You are going down the same route as Gavin, you are making up arguments to suit your claims. Nobody is saying that "only the substitution of Niasse for Lennon is to blame".

You knock other peoples opinion by claiming they must all have crystal balls

Martinez got it just about as wrong as possible at every turn.

He took Stones off and left on the over-rated Funes Mori – who was beaten in the air for all three goals BY THREE DIFFERENT PLAYERS!

He took Lennon off when he was showing more desire than anybody else – remember Lennon is there to assist Seamus, not do his job for him – he replaced him with a guy who was so off the pace he looked like he'd never played the game. You ask "What Niasse did wrong?" What a question! You should be asking what on earth did he do?

To make matters worse Martinez then pulls off his only real goal threat and replaces him with a guy who only scores every blue moon. Somebody who should have been introduced before West Ham had managed to build such momentum. His bravado was gone, he was desperately trying to hang on to a point – Ridiculous.

Players get tired after 70-80 mins of Premier League football, some games come down to desire, the will to push themselves further, but this wasn't one of them.

We were comfortable, why did we need to make any substitutions at all? I've lost count of the number of times Martinez has made substitutions when he didn't need to and not made them when he did.

Instead of accusing others of acting like they have the ability to look into a crystal ball, why not asked yourself if their criticism is valid.

The result alone would suggest their opinion has some merit; the capitulation makes a mockery out of yours.

This is a recurring theme for the past 2 seasons: Everton start well, pass teams off the park, get a commanding lead, and then capitulate with 15 minutes to go. It nearly happened against Villa.

Deulofeu can't last 90 mins... Barkley doesn't do it for 90 mins... Lennon it seems can't last 90 mins.

There's only one person who's to blame for that, guess who? Martinez, whose deluded idealised vision of football doesn't bother with the fundamentals of sport: Hard work, Fitness, Fight, Organisation, He's only concerned with playing nice tippy-tappy football, he doesn't want to scrap for a win.

If you're not as fit as your opponent, you will inevitably lose. The very least you should expect is that the players are fit enough to compete for 90 minutes – which we clearly are not.

Martinez out!

Martinez's subs again was the problem – how any Evertonian can stick up for this clown is beyond me.

As a striker sitting on the bench watching your team with ten men defending a 2-0 lead you'd be thinking, "the boss is going to shore things up here, unless Rom gets taken off I'm staying here." Next minute you are told that the boss is taking Lennon off and you're replacing him.

"But boss, don't you want to tighten it up defensively? I'm a goalscorer, surely Gazza or Bainsey would be a better sub than me right now."

"Don't be silly, we don't defend at my club, I reckon if we attack we can score again, and if we lose at least it will be spectacular."

Last night I didn't talk to the wife,and went to bed at 09:00 oclock because I was so pissed off.
Where is our salvation going to come from ??

Jags 313 games - 15 goals
Stones 81 games - 1 goal
Funes Mori 27 games - 4 goals

We lose because RM relentlessly refuses to close games down when we are winning. Chucking on a second forward when the game has less than 15 minutes left and we are down to 10 men. Why take Lennon off at all? Don't disturb the side or if he must take Lennon off take Rom off also and put Niasse up front with orders to hold up the ball and run their tired defenders around and stick Barry on to crowd the midfield and keep possession of the ball for the last few minutes.

If Moshiri has any sense and you don't get to be a billionaire by being dumb, he will get rid of RM as soon as the season is finished whether we win the FA Cup (which I seriously doubt) or not.

RM is over at Everton. A dead man walking just waiting for the chop. Put him out of our misery. The sooner the better. We have been lucky this season, and last season that there have been a bunch of atrocious sides in the league that even we could beat. Next season we may not be so lucky. If we don't want to be the next Villa, Sunderland, Newcastle RM has to go!

The winning goal was a cross from the half-way line to Andy Carroll on the edge of the box. What's wrong with defending on the half-way line? What's wrong with playing for offside?

Roberto has put together an excellent squad but he has never learnt and adapted from mistakes. When Farhad Moshiri comes, I hope he judges Martinez by the sums and, as a shrewd accountant, he will see the sums don't add up.

I don't have anything against Eddie Howe he would be a good choice of manager but I don't think he has the presence to keep the stars we have and therefore I feel we would be starting again a fresh with him. The team we have should be achieving so much more.

Hiddink's reputation would give us hope of keeping the likes of Lukaku, I agree with a previous statement made... we are a good manager away from a having a great team.... that manager would have to be one crafty, hard nosed, dedicated, footballing wise SOB but it is achievable.

What did Niasse do wrong?

He never did anything. He was immobile. He never missed any sitters as you rightly claim... because he was never anywhere remotely near the action. That immobility cost us. Prior to that Lennon's movement was causing problems. Just the fact that he was on the pitch caused problems.

Because of his pace and potential danger, West Ham could not press forward as much as they would liked. Lennon, was effectively "stretching" the field, which is exactly what was needed.

We took him off and that finished and Bilic knew it and made his subs. I do not agree with you at all and I feel that you were watching a different game from the one I saw... at least from a very different perspective.

What he was doing on the pitch anyway was a mystery. Was Martinez hoping to score a third goal? Any sensible manager would surely hang on to what we have. Osman, Baines or Barry to slow the game down or even Delofeu to run around and occupy their defenders.

I am convinced our lack of fitness and strength is the key to these late capitulations. All the teams visiting GP seem fitter and faster than us as well as better organised. They seem to have much more time on the ball than us. Our "pressing" consists of jogging towards the ball and then waiting for the player to do something.

Osman explained that Martinez's training is much easier than Moyes's and is all spent on the ball, notwithstanding the fact that 95% of a player's game time is spent without the ball. If Martinez does not go in the summer, next season will be a full-on relegation battle.

We fail because our manager keeps shooting us in the foot. Instead of closing down games we keep attacking. Instead of putting on defenders and dm's he throws on attackers.

He said it himself. He sees closing down games and holding on a lead as some sort of shameful capitulation instead of it being the professional thing to do.

Basically he's an idiot.