Martinez still looking for 'the right fit' before the deadline

If we would have gone all out I have every faith he would have chosen us over Stoke.

All will be forgotten when we bring in a quality no 10 that fits in with the Everton way. Whoever he is!

This idea that we like to Sign players cheaper later in the window doesn't work if you need players before the season starts. Now having current players talking about our transfer business, how they'd like signings and how we as supporters should be patient is even more annoying than not having anyone come in.

My main concern is we now have our hardest run of fixtures without these players bedded into our squad. That’s simply not good enough.

Stop the bullshit and pull your finger out please.

Was Shaqiri the right fit for Martinez's team? It sounds like there was a big question mark in Roberto's mind and I think he was right not to gamble £12m and £70k a week on a player he had doubts about. If the choice is to hold on to his funds until the right player becomes available and get a loan in for now to tide us over then that might be the right thing to do.

One thing that does worry me about the 'right mentality / fit' line of thinking is the type of player Roberto thinks fits. Is he avoiding potentially troublesome but talented players in favour of yes men? It has been suggested that we need a Joey Barton type character to add some passion and bite to the team. Does Martinez shy away from these kind players in favour of team harmony. Perhaps someone with a bit of the devil in them is just what we need?

When two centre halves capable of stepping into the first team leave, we need at least one replacement. Is that too difficult to understand?

New signings give the supporters hope, creating a more vibrant atmosphere in the stadium, and lifting the team.

Now we're fearful of losing our best players to teams who show some ambition. Why would John Stones really want to stay? What can he look forward to here, apart from being guaranteed a game every week, because there is nobody to take his place?

Yet again, we'll be looking for bargains on the last day of the sales, by which time we'll have dropped too many points to have any chance of achieving something in the league.

We will. Probably on deadline day. As we have done for the last few years and even before then. The obvious reason for this is that this is when clubs with players who they want off their wage bill or who want to move are forced to drop their prices. You either pay £12m for x in July or £9.5m for him on deadline day. As we are skint this when we tend to do alot of our business.

The question is WHO? There are still good players out there and if we end up with Van Dijk/Evans, Yarmolenko, Sergi Roberto and Lennon then all will be forgiven!

He hasnt bought a top class player since he's been here.

Seems to me like Bill's illness is putting the brakes on.

If this is the case, the board should be left in no doubt that they are fully responsible. We have been in the Prem for 23 years, earning the big money. We have sold off the training ground and mortgaged out the stadium. We have sold off Rooney, Arteta, Fellaini, Rodwell, Lescott etc. we are perennially among the lowest spenders in the league, who have to scavenge for loans. And yet again, we are the lowest spenders!!

It stinks.

By the way, yet again, there has been no coverage in the Echo about last night's special on Talksport.

We could have got Ayew and Richards in on frees the minute the window opened if we acted. I'm not saying that they would have come here but had they done so it would have been a start at least.

Obviously this isn't all his fault. Either there isn't any money to spend or the board aren't backing him but either way, the other clubs around us are strengthening while we wre standing still with the same squad as last season essentially, a squad that is threadbare and needs overhauling.

1) There is some how no money & the Board are waiting to sell Stones, But Roberto does not want to.

2) The Board don't trust Roberto with the money, & can't afford to sack him & his staff if he spends a fortune & it all goes wrong.

3)The money is there & we have a clueless Manager & Board who have not got a clue who to buy & are now starting to panic.

I do not buy that we are waiting for the right fit, There are countless players like James Chester who could have improved our squad & have gone for buttons, & by the time deadline day comes about we could have lost 10pts

The club has no vision or strategy at Board level and they have now managed to get a manager who operates on the same basis. We can't even compete with mid-table Premier League sides anymore so have now adopted a scatter gun at best approach to transfers (on the rare occasion the purse strings are released). We have gone back about 15 years in the 3 summers Martinez has been in charge.

I will be absolutely amazed if we sign anyone who will improve the current starting XI never mind the squad before 6pm on 2nd September. And given what has been served up for the past 12 months that is a truly frightening prospect.

The reality is that the gulf is bigger every year with top 5. Sixth position is a bit of a lottery. I guess you would just about put Spurs as favourites each year.

Leaving big 4 aside how many of Liverpool's or Spurs signings in last 2 years would you put in a top 5 or 6 side. Not many in my view. In respect of other clubs it's not just the transfer fees but they're paying huge bucks in wages.

Martinez is correct to plan for the long term. There is no other choice. Whether he's the correct man to do this and be in charge of us is a different matter. Personally I'm not sure but I continue to back him for as long as possible as I think long term is the way and bringing in young players on transfers and through academy is correct and only bringing in experienced older players cheaply to supplement the rest.

Also if they couldn't get near a top 6 team. Why were the likes of United and Spurs sniffing around McCarthy. United also being linked with Rom for that matter. Its certainly not because they are average players.

I think there are a lot of envious fans over our signing of Deulofeu. Spurs and Stoke as well as several European clubs wanted him.
So why did he sign?! He's said it himself.. it was his relationship with Martinez that sealed his decision.

As for Cleverley. He's a Premier League champion, and was a regular in the United team for a couple of seasons before he became the scapegoat for the Moyessiahs ineptitude of not being able to manage at the highest level. I think a free transfer for a player who is an England international and was wanted by Wenger earlier in the summer is a pretty astute signing myself.

Galloway was also a brilliant signing looks comfortable in our side at relatively young age, and I'm sure there's plenty of other managers (in the top 6) who wish they'd have spotted him.

No, Martinez can spot a player. Whether he can motivate them or get them to play how he wants is the issue here.

So what doesn't Roberto mean? That he may Not buy anyone if they don't 'fit'?

Hence no defensive back up, striking back up etc???

Season has started and he's already behind the curve.

Thanks Roberto

He couldn't give a definitive answer! Also when he asked why the two holding midfielders who neither are known for their great range of passing drop into the fullbacks position when we have the ball, he said we were looking for different lines through the pitch!

What a load of tosh the guy talks, he is a total fraud! He can't set a team up to defend well and he cant set them up to attack well!

The quicker he's out the door the better I can't stand listening to his tripe anymore!

This must be part of the Managers contract, its word for word what Moyes used to say.

As for the signings. "Some early, some very late" appears to have been a truthful promise. Targets selected and boxed off months ago. Lennon plus safe others.I don't think he dare bring in Moses but Evans with his PL experience would fit the bill at the back. With so many midfielders, a new number 10 is unlikely but an experienced, mobile right-footed striker would be welcome.

Personally, I would like a top class keeper and a new Moyes / Pulis type defensive coach. We are disorganised, we don't close down and we ball-watch. We watch everything bar the opposition and no-one seems to mind. Where are big Joe Royle, Unsworth and Howard Kendall? They must hate this stuff. Has BK lost his marbles? The guy with the least knowledge and experience is steering the ship.

I watched City last night whose two defensive mids are Fernandino and Toure who both consistently got up to support the attack and score goals.

This is my problem with McCarthy who does have a very good engine but to my mind is very one dimensional and not top class.

Delofeu at this point in time only has unfulfilled potential and could not get in the Seville side let alone Barca's subs bench.

Lukaku, I actually rate as the worst piece of business I have ever witnessed. He cant head a ball, hold up play, dribble or pass accurately and his league goals have dried up.Give me Bony or Benteke over him anytime.

Now Galloway I believe does have enormous potential but was it Martinez who spotted him?

As regards, Kone, Robles, Alcatraz, Atsu, Eto etc like throwing money into the waste bin IMO. And who in their right mind would give Hibbo a 3 year contract when it was obvious he was no longer up to the rigours of the Prem.

He simply couldn't answer Cara's question as to why we split the CBs and let a defensive midfielder drop back, as opposed to playing a simple forward pass from the back to a midfielder a bit further up the field.

I also agree with Helen #4 that we need to start letting the board know our feelings. As fans we have been too compliant as to how things are being run and I feel that we need to start protesting at the shoddy way our once great club is being run into the ground.

Jay - your posts on here are consistently ill thought and exaggerated. Are you actually suggesting that all teams DMs should get forward to support the attacks, even though the lack of a DM was clearly one of City's primary weaknesses last season, and the reason they lost games and the title? Did you see what Coquelin did for Arsenal last season? What Makelele did for Chelsea? What Mascherano did for Argentina and for various club teams when played at DM?

And Deulofeu didnt have a great time at Seville, but still made a shit load of assists in little playing time. Players don't have a great time at certain clubs sometimes - it's the way it goes. Does that mean he is a bad player? De Bruyne must be bad then, because he didn't get in Chelsea's team? And Mata? etc etc.

And yeah, Lukaku is a pile of shit. He scored loads of goals when playing styles which suited his play, because of...luck? Fuck an incredible scoring record at such a young age. Benteke is twice the player isn't he Jay? Unless of course you are watching him during one of his barren runs, when he can't control a ball, hold up a ball, and looks like he would miss a barn door. And don't get me started on his movement.

But that's right - do the typical. Watch Everton week in week out, and then exaggerate the players you watch on MOTD or odd games. The city comment is absolutely typical of that, and ignores a major weakness which derailed their season in various competitions. A holding DM is an important part of the game, and would work fine for us if Martinez put the right player next to McCarthy, and played in a way that suited the team.

And I don't care about these comments - they are the typical sort, and I would prefer that we didnt rush the wrong signing. That said, I can't help looking enviously at Wijnaldum and Payet who I believe would have sold creative issues in our team. Martinez has had along time, and going into the season without a third choice senior CB is unforgivable imo. I cant help but thinking our business is being delayed by Bill's apparent ill health, or more likely the potential Stones deal. The 3 players Martinez wants will be very different different if Stones goes, and we get the best part of £30mil to spend.

I hate to be downbeat, like, after that barn-storming season opener but that is just how it comes across to me.

And before anyone accuses me of being 'glass half empty', I confess that with respect to the Mighty Blues, I'm simply drinking straight out of the bottle now.

I hope he genuinely does have some rabbits ready to pull out of how many hats Bill has given him. I really do wish he proves me wrong and turns this situation around.

But can anyone honestly say that what we've added so far to a disappointing last season appears to underpin the Champions League 'promise'?

I hope he's got it in him for all our sakes.

But (final whine and a perennial one) - the season's already sodding started. Why do we still - as usual - appear to be planning for it and / or discounting the first (think of a number) matches as 'early days' (a phrase I loathe in football terms)?

The thing about human beings is that we are all different and that is what makes us so interesting. Some players may fit perfectly in the team and be a player who wins us games on the pitch, but off the pitch he may not be sociable, so don’t we want him.

With no distraction of the world cup surely the manager should have had his scouts out looking for the players he wants, and not with 3 weeks to go start looking for players, who he may not be aware of their characteristics. I am not sure if we have an effective scouting system any more ,or if we have to rely on the manager knowing the players previously. Besic is not an exception, for as far as I am concerned he was signed because Martinez watched him play one good game against Messi.

i don't think my post is ill thought at all.

I didnt say any of the players were bad.

I said they were NOT top class.

And I also said Lukaku was not worth 28m.

Your comparisons are ill conceived.

In case you havent noticed we havent got a Machelele, Mascherano or Coquelin and I would certainly swap Barry and McCarthy for Toure and Fernandino.

My comment and comparisons are in respect of Martinez ability to spot a top class player.

If you think my post is poor name a top 6 side that would have any of Martinez signings as first choice.

I do not watch MOTD.

I have the privilege of watching the majority of EPL games every weekend and have been watching and playing football since 1960 so I think I have the right to express an opinion on players and teams without you coming on like the internet police.

By all means disagree with my post but do not treat it with contempt.

If you've been watching football for so long, how on earth can you not notice that City lack a DM? Why are you saying 'I would certainly swap Barry and McCarthy for Toure and Fernandino.' What has that got to do with the point in hand? Did I say I wouldn't want Toure in Everton's side. Surely you can see that McCarthy is a different player to those City players mentioned?

I'll answer your question about top six sides with McCarthy. He would get in above Fernandinho or Fernando, who have both piss poor for City. Talk to some City fans, or simply watch some City games. I think he'd have a great short of getting in above Coquelin too, who has only shone for six months so far after a pretty anonymous career. He interestingly offers nothing going forward but changed Arsenal's season because of his willingness to sit and allow others to attack. McCarthy could do this job effectively for us, if only Martinez had the balls to install a passing midfielder next to him, and control the forward runs of our defensive players a little more. Liverpool also lack a DM, and I'd personally take McCarthy above Lucas, Allen or Can. And Spurs...please answer me this- Do you think McCarthy wouldnt get in above Bentaleb or Mason in Spurs' midfield. I'd also argue that Deulofeu is a better player than anyone Spurs can muster on the right hand side of midfield, with incredible potential to improve. Dembele, a CM, played on the right hand side of midfield during the last match, in front of a real failure - Lamela (a far worse buy than Lukaku). Townsend does not get in the team with any regularity, because Townsend creates very little and shoots far too much without offering much in the way of a scoring record for Spurs.

I literally cannot believe you think that McCarthy is a worse player than Bentaleb or Mason. I actually find it bewildering. It's incredible that we even managed to finish with a record points the total in the year previous, given that the core part of our success that year (Lukaku, Barry, Deulofeu and McCarthy) would not get in any of the top six sides!

For the record, I'm not a fan of Martinez, and I do not think he will take us forward (if youve read my posts over the last year you will know that). But I think that the extent of your exaggeration is absurd, and representative of a peculiar need to denigrate in the extreme. I do not understand why there can't be a little more restraint and objectivity shown in some posts. I await your response, and for you to tell me that Bentaleb and Mason are better players than McCarthy.

not just a case of bringing names for the sake of it.....
We need to bring in a couple of new faces....
They need to improve or help the team....

pffffft, outrageous comments. I demand this idiot is sacked immediately. In fact bring back capital punishment, sacking is too for for him!

If you cant see the point I was making without resorting to abuse and point scoring then I give up.

If you are happy with Martinez signings then I am happy for you.

I am not happy as you can plainly see.

Also spend the damn TV money like everyone else. People are blaming BK, but I fee the blame should be spread around but mostly on Roberto. Why? Moyes got players in at the start of the window, but RM wants to wait and use the loan market to buy. That's why Wigan got relegated jacka$$. I mean for real, why would a player wanna come on loan of someone else is willing to sign them?

Last year he sat at every World Cup game yet only came back with Besic, an overrated McGeady, and a few ex Wigan players. I like McCarthy and hope he stays, but what and who else did RM go out and get.

I say get the kid from Celtic, name escapes me ATM. Also bring back Fellani, he should be cheap enough. To maybe offset the cost of Fellani agree to a loan deal for the young Belgium winger at United, God why can't I think of names. Now you have your CB, your big Midfield target and a good young winger. And he'll bring in Lennon.

GK: Howard
LB: Galloway/Oviedo
CB: Van Dyck, Stones
RB: Coleman
DM: McCarthy, Fellani
AM: Barkley
RW: Lennon
LW: Miralles
ST: Lukaku

Barkley will be fine at AM, it's Lukaku up front hat scars me. His first touch is horrible. Now I haven't been a football fan long, but it's one of the worst first touches I've seen.

I have read and many times thought many posters on hear are very harsh, but I am now tending to agree with the main theme.
We started poor (at best) grabbed a draw and with injuries who knows his next side away a Southampton.

Been an Everton fan all my life and this season, could, for first time buy a season ticket, already fed up with the "have you bought it to see them relegated" comment.

I agree the money players get is obscene, but that is the game as it is.
Join in (sensibly) or get relegated the choice is the managements.

Two scenarios here

1/ on TDD we end up with Evans and Lennon. If this happens I will then proceed to moan and whinge with the best of them and complain we have no desire to actually try and crack that glass ceiling etc etc...

2/ We sign Dragovic, Yarmolenko, Sergi Roberto and Charlie Austin.
I think most would agree that signings if this ilk would please most and put us in a much better position.

However, I inderstand how likely we all feel this is but until we know, why moan. Sometimes good times are just around the corner!

"I thought Carragher ran rings around him with his concise and thoughtful insight"

Give me a fuckin break!!!!

International is paid monthly, in equal installments, and all clubs receive the same amount irrespective of final league placement.

The wanting 3 but bringing in a couple of new faces does make sense.

Lennon is an old face + 2 new faces = 3

The maths works for me

:)

Turn off the angst !

Link

I'm happy with Deulofeu, Lukaku and McCarthy as signings. I would have been happy with Barry for a year, because he had a great previous season I was really not happy about Kone or Alcaraz. I was not initially happy about Eto'o but came round because of generally positive comments on here, because he could have been a good back up. But then he was absurdly played out of position. Atsu and Traore were shoots in the dark. They could have worked well. I was not for the signing of Atsu personally, as I felt that he was too one dimensional and not the kind of player we required. As for Robles and Besic - we will see. I think both have room to improve and become decent players. I don't think Cleverley is a bad signing or a good signing, but again, he should be placed next to McCarthy and not in wide midfield. If Martinez wants a wide player, then he shouldn't have signed Cleverley.

My concern about Martinez's signings relates to the players he has not signed and the way he has used those signings. Primarily, we need a top creative player because our system absolutely necessitates it. I think the failure to bring in that creative player across multiple windows is almost unforgivable, even if the injuries to Pienaar and Osman have robbed us of two players who would help the Martinez system (Although they are both old and should have been replaced). I also cannot believe Martinez has not signed a CB. I really find it baffling. To go into the season with only 2 senior CBs, one of whom is 21 and subject to daily speculation about a move to the champions, is both bizzare and unique. I cant think of another team who has done it.

What I don't understand Jay, is why you can't just make an argument without resorting to absurd exaggeration. This is suppose to be a place for debate, not for Talksport trolling. McCarthy clearly is good enough for some top 6 clubs. So why claim that he isn't? Why can't you criticise a part, without going for the whole? If you read a post that you enjoy on here - is it a reasoned reply or comment article, or is it one which serves to exaggerate everything in the act of making a point? Especially when that point is made time and time again. Why criticise players left right or centre - do you not think that has the capacity to frustrate some of those reading? Describing Lukaku as the worst signing you've witnessed is wholly unnecessary. It is patently wrong, given the string of piss-poor Everton players who have represented us at different times, and the string of horrifically bad Premier League signings. Torres. Balotelli. Soldado. Carroll. Lovren. Lamela. Paulinho. Jovetic etc etc.

I actually don't think the players are the problem. I think that the 3 rumoured signings could give us our best squad of the Premier League era if they were the right signings. I think we have many exciting young players, and many very positive attacking players. I think it is realistic to claim that Stones, Deulofeu, Lukaku and perhaps even Barkley could all become top top players. I think Coleman and Baines are the second best full back pairing in the league. I think that McCarthy is a brilliant holding DM who could grace most sides in the division. Mirallas is an exciting attacking midfield with a brilliant efficient strike and assist rate given the money paid. I'm also excited about the potential of Galloway, Browning and Garbutt, who could all become regular starters in this league I think, for us or lesser teams. If we were able to bring in the right selection of players (for example - Van Djik, Kagawa and Hendandez), I think we would be sitting pretty. Of we would be if not for Martinez. I strongly believe that his tactics are strangling the potential of our side. I think any critique of Lukaku which ignores that is wholly insufficient. Lukaku needs the ball played to him quickly, so that he can isolate men one on one. How often does that happen? He thrives on pull backs, but how often is that happening? He also demonstrated a great ability to score headers off runs in between the CBs and Fbs for West Broms. How often does he get a dinked ball to the back post in this set up?

The problem from an attacking point of view? We have a mix of midfielders whose primary ability is tackling, and a mix who play with their head down and who shoot and pass backwards too often because the space disappears in their hesitation. They do not pass the ball on quickly. Watch Swansea and us - it is night and day, even if we have some really top attacking midfielders. To function effectively, they must be allowed to play quickly and more directly, but Martinez wants a slower possession heavy style. If he wants that style, we need to drop one of an attacking trio of Barkley, Mirallas and Deulofeu each match for a creative midfielder who can play between the lines and control the tempo. We then need another, quite probably Cleverley, playing next to McCarthy, so that we can move the ball on quickly from deep. Our defensive problems are not because of the insufficiency of our defensive players. Consistent clean sheet records across several seasons illustrated that these players can defend. Stones can too, even if he has mistakes in him, as demonstrated by the big bids coming from Chelsea. The problem is our tactics. Our CBs move forward absurdly, and then are left in horrible positions with no one to pass to. There was a moment where Jags did it on Saturday, and as he started to panic so did I. Our full backs do the same, playing as wingers as points. Doing so then forces our wide players inside, and our central midfielders often have to drop back into wide defensive areas. It's a mess at points, and the wrong players and playing in the wrong positions in a mistaken search for a 'fluidity' which is easier to defend against, and makes us more vulnerable at the back.

I honestly believe that the right manager and the 3 players would turn us back into immediate top six challenges. I think we are better than Spurs and every team in the division bar the top 4, and Liverpool, who we still would have a good shot of finishing above if we played to potential. Southampton also have a very good side, or will at least if they add another CB and if Soares works out for them. But we have some really good players at this club. Lukaku has not become a terrible player over night. This is a guy who scored 32 Premier goals in 49 starts for WBA and Everton before he had turned 21. We have a superb defensive unit (McCarthy, Stones, Jags, Baines and Coleman) even if we need depth and if Howard is on the way down. We have some very good attacking young players. We need to fill the gaps in with the right players, and play them in the right way. This is in the main a team who challenged for top 4 a little over a season ago - we have it in us (will finishing in the top six anyway), but we need to play to our potential to find it. We are miles away from that a present, because of a stubborn manager playing failing tactics with the wrong players. I hope Martinez proves me wrong, but I'm of the opinion that we wont see better days until we see a better manager. Unless of course he changes, and sees the problems. Many managers have, and that mutability, the adaptability he demands of the players, could save his job.

All in all, I believe the latter statement to be much nearer to the truth and I don't think it would take a genius of a manager to maximise their effectiveness. At the same time, the deficiency in the present incumbent's tactical approach and his ongoing conviction that this is the only way the game should be played has been well chronicled and presented to the nation in recent days but I firmly believe that even with 'the three new faces' signed and sealed things would still not change. We should still line up with two DMs, one winger, Ross, Cleverley and Lukaku with the back four doing all those silly tricks you mention above.

Personally, I'm not too exercised by the lack of signings but more by the failure to utilise properly the players we already have.

If the money continues to be paid in mid-August and the transfer window closed before it, we'd definately have no new signings as we hardly spend any money before that initial August payment is received.

We need players now.

Totally disagree with 2 DMs I'm afraid Phil, imo not necessary, even Moyes didn't do that. Utilise the wings with, whisper it quietly, proper wingers, McCarthy can prowl in front of the back 4 on his own like Carsley used to do. Have Mirallas just behind Lukaku (Barkley blatantly not ready for that role yet) organise the defence and we shall be competetive again

I think 2 DMs can work - Southampton have played that style admirably, and it's really improved their defence. But it only works in a style concentrated on defensive solidarity, which ours clearly isn't. They also have a manager who supplements their attacking players with a genuinely creative presence (Tadic), and have the option of bringing in a passing mid to freshen the DM roles up (Ward Prowse), whilst Schneiderlin was more technically gifted than our respective tacklers. I really like what Koeman has done, and Pochettino did there too, and would love a manager who organised our team in a balanced and sensible way.

The overly long posts are a product of Everton irritation and procrastination. I'm very close to finishing a project, and the nearer I get, the more I procrastinate. My work life would be a lot more productive if Martinez was a better manager.

I agree with RM on the transfer issue. I also think he had identified targets that all fell through for one reason or another.

We have spent less than everyone else but Cleverly was free and probably worth about £10m in truth so it's a misleading stat IMO.

I also think we will sign players before the deadline, and again we'll all choke down a little slice of humble pie. Silently of course.

The key question is who you play there. For the set up to work you have to have at least 1 of the two being a very good passer who can move the ball forward with pace. Also at least one of the two needs to be a more box to box MF who can support attacks as well as cover back. Problem is McCarthy/Barry doesn't work, especially if our FBs are stifled.

a) the passing is far too slow and more often than not in any direction apart for the opponents goal,
b) neither of the two seems to be willing or is instructed to push forward more and be a more box to box player,
c) we get very little creativitiy and goals from either
d) Barry is simply too slow in that position. Against any team that has pace, he has to sit deep so as not to get caught out, which leaves us even more disadvantaged in the MF. When he doesn't sit back he ends up getting yellows as he has to resort to fouls when the oppo break.

I personally thought Cleverly was bought in to play next to McCarthy and Barry would be a sub/cover for CB or LB. It's very disappointing to see Cleverly (who himself is not even an AM) playing in one of the three AM positions and Barry is still in the starting line up - the guy seems to be undroppable (like Howard).

Cleverly looks as if he has the engine to get up and down and also looks a better passer than either McCarthy or Barry. With him next to McCarthy we'd be better set up for 4231 and it would allow us to play a proper extra AM in the '3'. If fit, Mirallas, Barkley/Osman, Deulofeu as the 3 AMs would have more creativity and goals. Would require a lot of discipline from the 2 CDMs, meaning you need stamina and pace to cover - which rules Barry out again.

Obvioulsy the above still leaves us with the elephant in the room, which is that Lukaku plays much better with a partner. Which the manager himself admitted in the past.....work that one out.

4411 would be much better, Mirralas, Kone or Naismith partnering Lukaku.

Back in the day of OFM, we used to get told that we had the best squad for 20 yrs. I used to bemoan the fact that Moyes wouldn't let them play.

Now we have a manager who is getting them to play too much...most of it the wrong way.

We need a whip round to send Bill on a road trip to Damascus right away.

I don't doubt that Barry covered more ground than any other player v Watford.

The problem is how slowly he covers that ground

My constant source of frustration is our lack of width. Time and time again we see Coleman, Baines or whoever is playing fullback isolated out wide with no one overlapping or to play a one - two with. Worryingly it is also usually 2 against one fullback when we are defending but thats a difference story. The best football we have ever played in my lifetime was under Moyes when Baines and Pienaar were the best left side in the league. If Martinez wants a quick fix to putting some entertainment back into our play then play 2 WINGERS and get them to work with their fullback. A simple tactic that has been successful since time began! Coleman against Watford had no option but to cut inside, hit an early cross or beat 2 players every time he got forward.

The buck stops with Martinez we have some fine players who would be performing a damn sight better under someone else.

Besides Bill's got his latest extravaganza to fund .. Tommy Steele FFS.

You also expanded on my original post that Martinez’s signings have been good on the whole, and are not the problem, rather it is the way the team is being set up which is the real problem.

I really hope we have a big deadline day that gives the fans and players a lift, giving us all the some impetus to kick-on.

I think that’s possible in terms of the who we might bring in, but I am starting to have serious misgivings whether we’ve got the right man to get the most out of these incoming players.

Which is it ?

You either know who are going to buy and if there is an offer to good to turn down for one of your players have at least 3 players on a list ready to buy in.

I think that part of the deal last season with Lukaku was a right to buy on Stones. But we keep missing out on replacements. I think that Stones will go on deadline day and we will bring in 4 panic buys who have the right mentally because that will suit Bobby.

Why did Barry pipe up a couple of days ago? I tell you why so Martinez didn’t look like a complete idiot after what he said on MNF.

He could not well come out and "the transfer window lasts until 1st September so we will go right to the wire"

After saying that the transfer window should close before the season starts!!

Lay off the guy, at the moment he is the manager of our club, some may not like it, but until he leaves, he should have our support. We can all criticise him for what he does with the team out on the pitch and that would be fair, but to keep harping on about what he does on TV or says in the papers doesn't help Everton FC to win football matches and that is all I'm interested in, the rest of it is just fluff and nonsense.

Roberto would you stay out of the media, and concentrate on signing 3 Premier League quality players.

I think confidence would help a lot and it seems to me that the players are very much playing within themselves. Where the turnaround comes from, I don’t know. New players? New tactics? New manager? Something’s gotta give...

Pretty damning if our bankers won't extend our credit whilst all of our opponents have that facility.

If someone with the time and search skills went through the accounts, every year since Bill & Friends took control and totted up how much we've shelled out in finance charges and interest, it would be a truly scary amount. Would've paid for a new stadium, and not a cowshed in Kirkby either.

The way our club is run at present, well if you presented it as a business plan, you wouldn’t get very far.

I just want the club to demonstrate some intent and ambition; not much to ask, is it?

In general terms both Moyes and Martinez have always kept us waiting to the last minute for players to arrive -- remember how Davey managed to sign up Fellaini in the hours AFTER the deadline. (Would'nt mind him coming back in similar circumstances, eh?)

As mentioned on other threads, my view is that we will have to settle for Lennon and Evans. Fair enough if the Catalan can 'fit them into' a winning team. That, to my mind has always been more important than who they are and how much they cost.

It doesn't surprise me that none of our lads were near the top ten in PL for distance covered last week because we had about 66% possession (open to correction on that one).

Which to me touches on a more pertinent issue that our movement ahead of the man in possession is lacking.

Throw in the fact that we have (IMO) too many British style players and not enough flair, it makes for a pretty static and often ineffective attack. Hence Lukaku being isolated with his back to goal, teams setting up a defensive wall to allow us try (without much success) to play through them.

Which all leads back to Jim Knightley's point that we badly need a playmaker or two.

He's listed the long list of Kenwright failing that though not new to this site will be news to Talk Sport and as Adrian Durum says it places a great platform for other callers to come through and also that they hope to get an official from the club in the next week to address the issues the caller spoke very eloquently about. Fortress, Kings Dock, selling the club, wanting a 900% mark up with zero investment, lack of transfer funds etc.

Wanting to know why the current board haven't invested a penny in the club since 1999.

Why despite no investment the asking price is 900 percent more than what they paid for it. With the club of striped of assets such as training ground, stadium mortgaged to the hilt.

Why the local press haven't raised the issue.

Why has every other premier league club either re-devloped there existing ground to moved and we have done neither.

Kings dock, Rooney for £50 million, Fortress sports fund all the lies etc.

Get him now I say. What have we got to lose.

The meeja had a right wankfest over him last night when they thought he was signing for WHU.

Wouldn't it make a refreshing change to have a least one "bad boy" on the books?

If we win, it will buy RM and the board a bit of time and maybe that will be enough to carry them through to the transfer deadline after the Man City and Spurs games.

The City game could indeed be a very toxic afternoon indeed the way things are shaping up.

I'll be at St Marys, going in hope - zero expectation. Please surprise me RM and Everton.

Phil #125, I am sure we all share the frustration, however, I am convinced that it is nothing to do with the Manager, more the people in charge of finance at the Company.

Ian#97, regards the Directors loaning money to the club, I get the impression, one way or another that is what the Vibrac loan is, and look at the stick that subject attracts.

Matt, to end up, my understanding is that a few years ago regular Bank finance was simply not an option for the Company, hence they ended up at Vibrac, who also lend money to other clubs on the Securitised front, and the rates are higher than Bank rates reflecting the higher risk. Obviously, I do not know the details, though a copy of the Mortgage deed was on here some while ago, I get the impression that there are penalties for redemption of the facility.

If all this does not add up or is nonesense, someone let me know please

One thing I noticed: Sharpy on City FM was critical of the Everton fans for booing the team off at half-time. Yet I heard him say to the American businessmen we where very poor particularly in the first half.

Other loans include £22,127,000 of loan notes (2013: £23,095,000) which are repayable in annual instalments over a 25 year period at a fixed interest rate of 7.79%. The first payment under the agreement was made on 30th September 2002 amounting to £1,588,000 with subsequent annual payments of £2,767,000 (including interest) starting on 30th September 2003.

The notes will be repaid in a securitisation agreement serviced by future season ticket sales. The costs incurred in raising the finance, amounting to £710,000, have been offset against the original £30,000,000 loan, and are contained within prepaid finance costs and charged to the profit and loss in line with the interest charge over a period of 25 years.

Other loans also include £20,924,000 (2013: £12,868,000) secured by legal charges over the Company’s guaranteed Premier League broadcast revenues. This loan incurs interest at a rate of 8.8% and was repaid in August 2014. The Group has obtained further funding post year end as described in note 1.

I’ll guarantee he’ll have a completely different point of view when he talks privately and that last point of view will be more honest.

He values his job with Everton so will always have that in mind doing his media work.

Patrick (#118), the problem with not commenting on Martinez's ramblings is that half the time they make no sense and or treat the fans like idiots. The amount of times he came out last season and tried to put a positive spin on an awful performance was embarrassing to say the least. When you watch your team get a good hammering then you want to know what the manager is going to do about it, not how we ran to great purpose or it was phenomenal that we managed a single shot on target in the 89th minute. Sorry mate, if we were winning matches and we showed great purpose then he could spout all the nonsense under the sun and I wouldn’t care. As it is, we don’t and I do.

James (#108), you are quite right. Under Moyes we did play some great football and I really do think that people forget that due to his reluctance to let the players off the leash for the big games against the top 4/5. Without going through a list, standout games like Sunderland (7-0) and Fiorentina at home were amazing games. Oh how we could do with some of that now. We will never do anything like that now due to Martinez insisting on this negative sideways style of football.

If we didn’t have players capable of playing exciting football then it wouldn’t be so frustrating but imo we do. Cleverley didn’t particularly excite me when he came but he at least can be the link up between defence and attack. Instead he was stuck on the left-hand side of midfield. More square pegs in round holes. As others have alluded to, it's not rocket science: play with 2 wingers like we have in the past so the full backs are not isolated and have team mates to play off instead of looking stupid when they have no support as all the attack players are stuck in the middle of the pitch. When you’re Chelsea, its easy to say you play with 2 DMs if Fabregas is one of them. There's a reason why he is regarded as a great player because he can do everything. Most players in his position can’t.

I also take issue with TWers praising Martinez with Barkley's progression. The guy has destroyed Barkley's confidence by continually playing him out of position and also playing him when he desperately needed a break. It also doesn’t help when Martinez keeps saying publicly what a world beater he is. I have no problem saying what he wants behind closed doors but by publicly putting that kind of pressure on him you can see Barkley constantly trying to be the world beater that Martinez keeps insisting he is.

The most intelligent midfielders in his position know when to run and when to pass. Ross doesn’t appear to know either. I like Ross and really hopes he succeeds but I am fearful that Martinez is going to permanently damage him by playing him out of position and evidently not coaching him on when to pass or not.

Martinez needs to go back to basics with the defence also. Its amazing/embarrassing to see how such experienced defenders don’t seem to be able to defend anymore. We used to have a mean mean defence, now its more porous than a sieve and its only good fortune we don’t leak anymore goals than we actually do. To be fair, Jags, as captain should be insisting on proper defensive drills and if that conflicts with the managers philosophy then maybe they need to have a row about it. Maybe they have but there is no evidence anything like that has happened on the pitch.

Aside from that then we are well set for the forthcoming campaign. (We shall ignore the fitness levels, soft tissue injuries, lack of transfer activity as it is just perceived as negative thinking... and that, my friends, is just not constructive!)

Up the blues

Additionally,do you recon they are looking to refinance with regular Banks or if not, why not?

Patrick, we exchanged a few on here a couple of week ago,
Really appreciate the discussions. Cheers, Ian

"While I agree we need somebody with a mean streak, the last thing we need is a lunatic who is liable to lose his head at some point and headbut someone."

But we all love big Dunc don't we.

I wonder how that works?

You couldn't make it up..

No mate it's reality,

and, as they say, reality is a bitch!

Against Southampton this weekend you have a choice. Barry or Joey.

Who do you pick?

Now, as far as the City game is concerned, I remember the incident well.

It was nothing to do with that little shit Nasri but he piled in anyway knowing that Barton's fuse had already been lit and boy did he make political capital out of the situation.

In the end he got what he deserved.

And just as a teaser who said "I never fucked anyone who didn't have it coming to them"

Answers on the back of a nanobot.

Seriously, we are mega screwed here. We need something different and we need it now.

And as for Joey I think he has learned as he's got older,

being a Dad and all.

I'm sick to death of the mediocre crap thats been served up to me by Bill bloody hotpot Kenwright. I'm sick to death of the vast wealth seemingly pouring down a bottomless pit that probably ends up in the Cayman Islands.

And do you know what I'm most pissed right off about, like about now.

It's the fact that my kids will more than likely never get to see the club that their dad told them, was the best club on the planet WIN ANYTHING.

I'm pissed right off about the turgid hyped up garbage that is being falsely served up from Goodison Park called "ENTERTAINMENT"

Talk about bollox week in week out. We are no further now than the Walter Smith days.

And everybody says, well, it'll be ok if we sign him and him and him. WE'Ve bloody well signed him and him and him over the years and THEY have done NOTHING on the pitch.

Lakaku, what... a.... joke...

I saw guys at my secondary school that couldn't get into the team with more ball control than that guy. Compared to the Yak, not in the same universe.

"we're not playing to his strengths" Why do I want a fiver for everytime I hear that crap. Either you're a good footballer or your not.

Scenario. Ball gets played wide to wingers. Wingers beat their man and cross it. The ball gets headed from say an Everton player across the box were Rom is positioned. He scores.

Or some amazing pass goes through eight opposition players and lands on Roms feet. he then scores.

Could anyone add to these simple scenarios in connection with "playing to his strengths" cos I've heard it ad-nauseum on this site but no-one seems to ever explain it.

The simple truth is, is that we have all been fed a narrative that Rom is shite because of everybody else in the team.

Well not me. I think compared to the Yak or even Joe Royal and say, Sharpy, this guys a con merchant and is, at this point in time not doing the business for Everton Football Club.

So to conclude, yep Joey Barton tomorrow please because in this particular football media driven world we live in he's about one of the only honest people that inhabit it.

And finaly,

For all the people who think all players are amazing for two minutes here's one for you.

And just prior to the Z cars theme this is what should be played as the players are getting their tutu's ready.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsd34urGtCw&spfreload=10

Weapons grade rant now over.

"He talks far too much shite for his own good on Twitter and if he signed for us he would most probably batter a red shite within a month."

Totaly agree mate, I mean that wouldn't go down to well with Alan Brazil and Talksport would it.

(the rs propaganda dept)

Can't argue with anything you said matey. I'm in the same boat re guiding my lads to supporting Everton. Feeling pretty bad about that at the moment.

More bilge emanating from Bobby today along the lines that we have the squad and talent to win the League Cup this season.

Oh dear, here we go again!

Feeling a bit negative already after our tepid pre-season and first outing.

But at the end of the day just say to yourself, "If this carries on I'm never gonna support Everton not no more nor ever again"

Do you see the oxymoron, the paradox the complete futility in that statement?

What a week to give up crystal meth!!

As for playing two DMs, people are correct -- it can work if you really want to play that way but you need one of them to be a creative, a playmaker to get the ball off the other one & start moves off. I still would only play one DM myself, though...

My view is that he is a prickly individual who could add a bit of backbone to a passionless outfit that need some leadership on the field. He is competitive with good vision and is on a free, something that should appeal to a spendthrift club that lacks a sense of urgency.

We have a stubborn Manager who has a view on football that is not to be turned despite the sterility it has spawned in our playing ranks. Barton would not be a risk and may be able to put some fire in the bellies of our underperforming players and add leadership so lacking on and off the pitch.