Blues enter period of limbo over Barkley's future

Why Koeman so dislikes the boy is a mystery to me?

I don't think it's that Koeman dislikes him, I think he is simply ambivalent towards him as Barkley is a bang average player and has been shite for most of the season.

Journos keep asking Koeman about Barkley so they can make a big deal out of it and get a headline.

Maybe I should also ask those that think the second highest goal scorer of the season is shite.

I'd be very surprised.

You must be watching a different Barkley from the one from the one that's frustratingly pissed me off all season!!

Did you see Barkley on Sunday Rick??

Brought on for Davies to do what exactly?

Did you see him at Anfield, at West Ham??

Have you watched him all season??

If your happy to just fend off 8th placed teams then keep Barkley and keep dreaming about this "unique talent " that we rarely see.

I don't know where these indexes get their info from but all I know is Barkley has stuttered to five goals this season from attacking central midfield, never turns up against better opponents and looks no further down the line than four years ago.

Two attacking midfielders? In the same team? At the same time? Operating together? Possibly at the expense of a defensive player? For Everton?

Link

So no it's unlikely you'll see two attacking central midfielders as the norm at Everton.

Signing Sigurdsson should not be seen as a threat, he should welcome the help he'll get. If Ross can't handle the competition, wants a guaranteed start or just can't work with Koeman, maybe he should move on and quickly.

I fear that is something he will get with likes of Man Utd or Spurs with Mata and Eriksen unless the board is ready to get player of that calibre. 75% of time he makes wrong decisions in the final third.

Barkley has the talent no doubt. It is joyful to watch when he is running with the ball at his feet and equally terrible when he is trying to pick out a pass and lesser the said about crossing the better. Fitness has improved under Koeman.

This will be the make or break transfer window . If we get that midfielder then we can get into top 4 next season else it will another disaster season just like that Europa League season we had under Martinez.

Another stat, Lukaku was 503rd out of 503 Premier players last season for lack of movement. When you are a midfielder, unless there is movement you come to a dead stop. Lukaku is an excellent finisher but he knows what he wants, the wonder ball slipped past the defender for him to run on to. He rarely makes a run to open up the channels for the midfielders to come through.

Sigurdsson, Barkley or whoever is there next season, if Lukaku stays which is doubtful, will have to learn how to play with an inactive striker which complicates their job.

Sheedy, Steven, Bracewell and Reid were so good because there were Gray and Sharp creating space tirelessly, before that the holy trinity had Husband or Whittle and Royle and before that Young , Vernon and Morrissey were able to exploit space. I think sometimes you need to look beyond the obvious before sweeping judgements are made about players and their ability.

He's carried the burden of being essentially the sole attacking link for much of the season, in a frequently "Safe", defensive set-up, away from home in particular. As you say, he has played several good months.

I use my eyes just like you, and stats, too. Lukaku has what could be deemed shortcomings when compared to other, different strikers but his goals (stats) show him as productive to the team. Judged in this way Sigurdsson, as a different player to Barkely, shows no great statistical improvement this season.

Don't you want quality player's to improve the squad or are you just obsessed with what happens to Ross Barkley. The mind boggles.

Seriously, if you take the free kicks all season then at some point, someone is going to nod one in.

All this talk of stats all the time is just blind people trying to justify their opinion. Anyone who actually watches Ross play sees that all his failings are ones which CAN'T be measured by stats.

English football all over, stat stat stat to show how right I am when results and performances constantly show otherwise. Yet it's the media outlets that use these stats to enhance the reputations of these bang average players.

Like Lukaku, can score a goal but is completely detrimental to the rest of the team. Everyone says "how do you replace his goals" and I always say "with the rest of the team".

Lukaku has great stats, Barkley has great stats, does anyone actually think that either of them are world class? or will be? I don't. They are selfish pricks only interested in their own stats and records.

They can both do one then perhaps we can move on finally from the Martinez debacle because I believe that there is still some shit from that guy floating around in their heads.

How were the rest of our attacking force in our away games? Not very good I guess? So a thought for Ron. How about you stick with Ross for our home games given our home form was good enough to challenge for top 4 and you try that Sigurdsson guy in our away games and see if Ross was the problem as it is sometimes suggested?

I know the real point of this situation is the financial implications of Ross not signing the contract. Just a bit of fantasy football on my part

He's a young lad with a great future but mature enough now not to be bullied by Koeman. I admire his courage in willing to risk becoming a small fish in a big pond but I believe it will benefit him.

In general Ross has improved a lot this season but, like Rom, struggles to shine in an often poor Everton side that is unbalanced and, I believe incapable of doing what Koeman wants them to and struggling as a result.

The teams who will come in for Ross see him not as he is for Everton but how he will fit into their sides.

I think you might've boggled there, Trevor. Where do you get that I don't want quality players? Never said it, and in fact, the opposite if you read some of my other postings.

I don't want Barkley to go. We'll be the less for it if he goes. Sigurdsson is a good player, a different player to Barkley, not a better version of the same player. There's room for them both, or could be if it ever looks like Koeman wants to develop a genuine attacking team... and Everton as a club shake off the one-in-one-out philosophy of "Improving" the team.

Replacing Barkley with Sigurdsson will change the team but not improve it in my obsessed (read: concerned/interested) opinion.

Anyway, looks like the club have made a serious move for Sigurdsson and presumably will eventually agree terms with him. I suspect that reflects not only Barkley's exit but also that Rooney will not be coming. I rate Sigurdsson but I am sure of my ground that he will be a downgrade on Barkley.

Always room for a bit of light relief.

Bang on. Same with Lukaku. When Lukaku isn't moving intelligently without the ball which causes a midfielder to move the ball sideways or backwards in order to keep it, no stat records that failed link up play for example.

Right again Dean. Most media writers don't watch all games. They just read the stats afterwards and assume. But fans watch their teams play, which is why opinions are often different from either group.

The employer is right to expect a fee when the lad leaves. He has been paid handsomely IMO and if he does not want to remain playing for Everton then he should be sold before he goes out on a free.

" it's the media outlets that use these stats to enhance the reputations of these bang average players."

-------------

"I look at his stats and his attributes and go, ‘Wow'. I think he's got the best stats in Europe (for tackles and interceptions) even though he's been to the African Nations, and that says it all"

Blind media meff looking to back up his big words or Director Of Football (and the bloke tasked with heading up recruitment) at Everton?

Do we know that? Is that based on stats about what media writers watch? or just assumption?

"But fans watch their teams play..."

So fans watch more games than media writers? Again, stat or assumption?

Barkley might improve with better attack-minded players around him. If it was my job on the line I'd be thinking hard on this one.

Barkley is a nearly man. Still talk about him potentially being a good player after 3 or 4 years.

One of the young Unsy squad a while back was quoted on here as saying he and Unsy were delighted that his stats were as high as they were. My heart sank a little. What about the craft, the inspiration?

It seems to me that agents use these stats to win arguments re contracts, so players concentrate on only the safe easy pass, or only the comfortable shot where they have loads and loads of time so as not to impair their stats.

If stats were available for doing naff all once the balls's been lost I'm pretty sure we'd have a couple of prime candidates at least from our squad and that, to me, is what frustrates the hell out of achieving success.

After last night I'm not in the mood for your selfish fucking about. Get on with it or fuck off elsewhere.

He has shown high elements of talent. That talent has been scant evident for some time and maybe Roberto took it with him to bequeath to some lucky Belgian under his charge?

When talent, or form let's say, deserts you, then hard work, and desire often gets you back to the place were the magic happened. Ross seems more 'Desire' than inspired and the only magic he's shown is how to disappear.

With many Evertonians, the saga has become an epic, and we are bored, so much so were Ross a company he'd be trading negatively now. Even signing a contract won't bring back the local boy love, he'll have to earn it now. That "small ship" has sailed.

But seriously, despite an underwhelming season, he should stay. Playing time would be limited elsewhere, Newcastle & West Ham excepted and having players of the same ilk should inspire him. So why not buy both the Swansea Viking and Lanzini and make them fight it out?

Are diamonds forever?

But having seen him play for us for a few years, I'm happy to see him move on. He's not setting the world on fire, and maybe his replacement won't either, but if we don't take the risk we'll be stuck with the same old same old for another season. Okay we finished 7th but I'd like to see some changes next time around.

He has been with us since his youth and his development has been with our club's coaching. He has earned loads of dosh and not really given back enough IMO.

Even though he is a local lad, I will not forgive him if he leaves our club in the lurch by just waiting for his contract to run down then bail out on a free. :(

Barkley is dreaming if he thinks he is going to waltz into a top 4 side, but he must have offers from somewhere. It's a shame this could not have happened two years ago, it would have been an easier transition and Barkley could have learnt from a more polished and tactically aware 10.

Some things never change, it's the Everton way and must be infectious or it's in the Manager's contract until he signs a new one at the end of the coming season. I mean, there's compensation money to consider.

Last year it was the Euros (players were so busy that business was done late). This year, it is poor Barkley's fault, the silly boy, not signing a new contract is holding-up business, oh and the bloody Europa League qualifying rounds is going to fuck up our preseason.

Oh yes preseason! Koeman didn't have enough of it last year either, coz he hadn't got his new Everton deal done early enough. What is common in all of this? Yes! Everton.

Our board are inept. What have they been planning all season? Did nobody realise any of these things was due to happen? It's a joke. Same old. We always end up in the last minute of the window with a pile of Average Joes.

And why should Barkley hurry up? Contrary to Koeman's observations and ultimatums, Ross has the whip hand here doesn't he?

Koeman didn't "make it public" – the contract stalling was in the public arena already (albeit as a dubious but subsequently proven entirely accurate press rumour) back in February. Koeman has simply answered journo questions professionally (as in "what he is paid to do as Everton manager appearing before the press in a press conference, where the press ask him questions, and he answers honestly as only Honest Ron can!").

Neither side "has the whip hand". Ross can sign or refuse to sign; the club can accept his decision or withdraw the contract offer and put him up for sale.

Let's not make shit up please.

Ross didn't look as though his heart is in it against Arsenal, but then neither did the other 12... But I will say this, the way Everton set up does Barkley no favours.

If you are asking him to play behind Lukaku, then just who is he expected to play a defence splitting pass to? Our 503rd mover? Hit a shot from 35 yards? Where is the overlap? Where are the runners to play the ball behind?

It's not Barkley that's the problem – it's having 3 or 4 defenders in midfield and no-one making runs. It's the way we are set up and the lack of pace and quality in those around him.

Holgate has been a disaster and we miss Coleman badly, and he wasn't having a great season... Baines hardly puts in a cross these days and Barry, Davis, McCarthy and Gana are all stoppers, not attacking midfielders. What's left is Mirallas who gives more options but a one-trick pony, Valencia will be gone, Koeman has said it himself, we have no options... but Barkley should not and cannot carry the team.

If both Lukaku and Barkley leave then its a bad day for the club because we do not have the quality around them to allow them to shine. Doesn't matter who you play in Barkley's position, play the same way with the same team and set up around him, the result will be the same. Barkley knows this, Lukaku knows this, Koeman knows this, Walsh knows this... but TW doesn't.

And I'm sorry but to suggest that Koeman's discussions with the press and his publicly stated ultimatums are "professional" is indeed making shit up.

"Doesn't matter who you play in Barkley's position, play the same way with the same team and set up around him, the result will be the same."

I think he could help himself by getting into the final third more or the 'third man run' that the coaches love to call it but how much of his reluctance to do so is coaching instruction?

In a team so bereft of talent as some on here and elsewhere argue, we can't afford passengers and we have too many in the team and the squad, and that includes Barkley and Lukaku – when he's not finding the back of the net.

I think I posed the question about half-a-dozen games into the season, should a manager ask his players to play to his preferred system or should the manager change his preferred system to suit the available players?

That question still remains largely unanswered because the dips in form both from individual players and the team as a whole would indicate that some of the players can't produce regularly in Koeman's set-up, but those same players couldn't produce regularly for Roberto either.

I don't really care whether individual players have their noses put out of joint due to the managers decisions but I do care that, when an Everton player enters the field of play, he is fully committed to the cause and gives 100% every time, unfortunately that cannot be said of too many of our current squad in the last few seasons, under two different managers.

If Ross does decide to remain at Goodison by extending his contract then I hope he shows a little more enthusiasm than Kevin Mirallas did last Sunday, following his signing of a new deal.

Every player new or old should feel that their place is under threat every game, unless they produce the goods, unfortunately that hasn't always been the case in the last few years and it looks as if some of our 'star' players believe they should be in the starting line-up regardless of their performance levels.

Players and managers come and go, but the culture of the club can be ruined all too easily, by either or both, somewhere along the line some of our better players have forgotten that hard work should be a given and that the fans will accept uneven performances on occasion if the desire and drive are there but the talent or form goes missing.

Everton has never been a good fit for prima donnas, homegrown or bought in, whether Ross or other first team players or even the manager, deserve that label, I'm not too sure, but I do wish that they would all just get on with what they are paid to do and produce a team that we can all be well and truly proud of, with or without our 'star' players.

And neither side "looks stupid"; both parties are at an impasse – have been for months. Yes, we await the promised statement (no-one said when it would be coming, though...)

One party has offered a contract it has claimed publicly to be a "good contract"; the other party has said nothing about it but significantly has refused (so far) to sign it.

There are consequences on both sides for both parties, whether Barkley signs it or whether Barkley does not.

And Koeman has been the consummate professional throughout. He is the Everton manager, he has the responsibility for building the team, for making it work, for getting results. (Not great so far... but he's only at Year 1 of a 3-year 'project' – Arrrgh!)

He has the professional task of fronting the club to the press and he does that job very professionally, responding as required to questions from the press. Read his blog post at ESPN. The work of a true professional!

He's had three England managers and now doesn't get selected (and I suggest England have trained him with way more mobile, intelligent forwards than we have so why's he been given the boot?).

He's played 150 games in five seasons but as every season passes he seems to be not quite as good with the ball as he was the season before, and, sadly, he wasn't consistently very good in the first place (but, as a mere kid, I allowed him that, expecting him to practice to improve).

Yes, he's shown some momentary sublime skill but only scored two whole goals of particular individual quality (versus a crap Newcastle and against Man City two or three years ago).

Factor in that his body language is generally anonymous, he seems to be all but voiceless when playing, that he's virtually non-existent in trying to win the ball back and, really, why does anyone, including him, think he'd be viable as the fulcrum of a Champions League attack anywhere in the country?

Then, as the Echo reported, there were seemingly still some talks going on; so I shrugged and am still waiting, even if it's impatiently! I can only assume that there is no clear Yes or No from either side, but that the parties are still within reach of each others' wants and needs.

If Barkley definitely didn't want to sign a new contract, I can see no reason we wouldn't know by now! Of course, the more likely scenario could be that he (and/or is agent) was hoping to be able to delay signing to see if there were big money interest during the summer, and then make a show of signing if none turned up...

I think Ross has an Everton future but has much to do himself to change that.

Ross has proven he can't hack the work rate in the middle of the park and as soon as January came he was shunted to a wide right berth, displaced by Schneiderlin and Davies.

He was given a chance to play with little defensive responsibility and concentrate on the attacking part. He had a right back who is no statute helping him and a centre-forward despite valid criticism who was scoring at home.

He has in 4 years only assisted Lukaku 4 times! (Cheetham; Sky) Whilst I could happily burden Rom with the lions share of blame, Ross has to do better to provide for our main source of goals.

So he has had 6 months to show he can be the man. His skills levels are such that it wasn't unrealistic. Not seen it, me. Sorry, just not evident.

However if he is as good as you and other of his supporters think, surely he would have found a way around the limitations of the system, worked out that our centre-forward prefers the ball quick and in front of him? Nope, nadda.

Work to do, not insurmountable but pivotal for him as a player, or I fear he might just fade from view as Rodwell did. Horrible comparison but relevant maybe Shaun Wright-Phillips or other top 6 bench warmers might be better example.

I keep asking people who are accusing Koeman of bullying Barkley to explain to me how this bullying has taken place. I have seen or heard no bullying or am I missing something?

Manager says he wants to work with and keep Everton's good players.
Manager says Barkley is a good player.
Manager says there is a contract ready to sign for Barkley.
Manager says contract is normal for this type of player.
Manager states clearly he wants Barkley to stay at Everton.
Manager says if Barkley doesn't sign the contract that he will be sold.

Barkley says nothing (and yes, he is entitled to do this)

Now, please explain how the manager is bullying.

He is simply stating the obvious isn't he ?
Like, if Barkley was allowed to run down his contract, that would be great business.
Hasn't this club messed up enough already without letting a saleable asset run down their contract.
Koeman is the manager (like it or lump it) and Barkley is just another footballer – yes just another footballer.

I'm happy we have a straight talking manager at least.

In my opinion, Barkley reckons he is worth a load more money than what's on the table which is rumoured to be 𧴜 grand or thereabouts (with bonuses included).

Don't forget, the manager is usually the communicator of the club in most cases – Kenwright and Moshiri are the two that should be saying what's going on.

Expect some spin soon!

I don't see Barkley as a trouble-maker, he's too quiet for that role, Everton never give him the post-match interview job. Perhaps Koeman wants him to be more assertive, but some players aren't. Alex Young was a quiet retiring fellow and there have been few greater players than him.

Before anyone jumps him I'm not comparing them as players, just as quiet, but talented footballers. Catterick tried very hard to replace Young with Wignall, and, of course, Royle's debut was far too premature. Managers love personalities.

if we let him go, it'll rank with Catterick's three big mistakes when he got rid of players before their time: Collins, Vernon and Ball.

If Barkley had someone like Kane or Costa ahead of him we might see his potential being fulfilled.

It really is a big call now for Everton to be successful in the transfer market to the degree needed to take a step past Man Utd to 6th. United themselves with comparatively unlimited resources are badly positioned to be able to gain a place themselves.

Having some money now isn't enough by itself.

If I were Ross, I'd get my agent to tell the club that, since the only players to have created more chances this season are Erksen, De Bruyne, Ozil and Hazard, and since my value of 㿞 million will rise in the coming years, I'd stay for ٥+ million a year. But then he might have decided already that the manager wants him out so he won't sign for any money.

Who knows what's really happening in the background, but it beggars belief that Everton have handled this the way they have. Unbelievably stupid.

Astonishingly unprofessional by Koeman and Everton. It beggars belief that contractual matters between two parties could have been handled in this tacky manner.

The fact it's been done in public is a decision by his manager in an effort to clarify if he needs to find a better player for that position. I'd suggest he does, as would anyone who's seen Barkley play regularly and isn't looking at this situation through sentimental rose-tinted glasses.

Give me details about when this has happened before please - no silly idle gossip please.

Facts!

I ask this as in my opinion your reading of the Barkley situation is ridiculous Dan and so I would like you to give the earlier examples of the club deliberately turning fans against a player so that I might be able to reach a more balanced position.

Listen, this has nothing to do with "the way Everton have dealt publicly with his contract situation" – what contract details, clauses, provisions have been made public by the club? Absolutely nothing. All they have done is confirmed the rumours out in the public arena. For once, they have been honest about a situation that concerns many Evertonians.

A rumour went around that Barkley was not keen on signing a new contract; the manager – in his professional role as club spokesperson at press conferences, responded to questions from journalists, as his professional position at the club requires him to do. The cat was out of the bag already.

That has had nothing, zero, zilch to do with generating any ill-feeling toward Barkley. If people are annoyed with Ross, it is because he's not signed the contract to play for Everton. A local lad... that is almost unthinkable!!!

And they're also a little less annoyed with him, more saddened by the fact that he has so palpably failed to take this tremendous opportunity to play his absolute best for this club... His club. How could he possibly hold the club to ransom like he has? To many, it's unthinkable! But, because he's a local lad, and we so desperately want him to succeed for us, he's actually getting off lightly.

The matter is being dealt with completely in house; nothing about the contractual impasse has been made public. No explanation has been given about why Barkley won't sign what the club believe is a perfectly good contract. All that has been said is he will be put up for sale if he does not sign. Perhaps that was Honest Professional Ron being a little too honest for some... but most recognize it for exactly what it is – a business imperative created by Barkley's decision not to sign his new contract.

Koeman and Everton have been completely professional about this. Contractual matters remain completely in-house. It is ridiculous to expect the club to ignore rumours about their own player when raised by journalists in press conferences. Sad, perhaps, but it was almost certainly Barkley's camp that put it out in the public arena in the first place.

Sorry but I have no concerns about how it's been handled subsequently – especially as it's already happened and cannot be undone. The fact is that one of our own is refusing to sign, and is forcing the professionals who run the club to make a business decision they don't want to make. They want to keep him – otherwise, why even offer him a contract???

Now that's what I call speculation.

I agree lazy arse Lukaku doesn't help but it's only a small contributing reason why Ross has been shite for the majority of the last 3 seasons.

If you watch the Arsenal game back Ross had several options to play the ball to players making runs, but he instead chose to keep it and make the wrong decision. As usual.

It's a much simpler explanation for me. Ross simply is just not very good. He's okay, just not great. Too many wrong decisions which can't be coached out of him and wouldn't matter if he played with someone like Vardy.

Football's gone fucking mad, especially when you have Clive saying Barkley should ask for ٥+ million a year, and Rick then saying that seems like a fair summing up of the situation!

Fools the lot of us, especially Koeman, for trying to dig Ross out!

If and when he leaves, it will have all been a huge disappointment; for the three seasons he did play, there where only ever flashes of brilliance and he never managed to play anywhere the consistent level required to be a star Premier League player.

It will leave the present squad even smaller and we need to recruit quickly and in numbers. This should be the priority, not playing the blame game as to why successive manager's could not get the best out of Barkley, that will all be history soon.

Followed by:

"How could he possibly hold the club to ransom like he has?"

At least you're consistent in your contrariness, Michael.

Consequently, his standing amongst lots of their fans diminished a lot because of his antics. I wonder if Ross has thought about that...

Oh wait – aren't we a big money boy now?

Interviewer: “So Ronko – I can call you Ronko, can't I? Give us the dirt on Ross, what's going on? Come on, come on, come on…dish it Ronko, dish it….”

Koeman: “Of course you can (insert nickname), and yeah, no problem, of course. Well here's the thing. We've offered Barkley a 3 year extension based on 㿼k a week – so that's a 㾸m contract. There are standard clauses in there to protect him from injury and a release clause of 㿞m – which we've already leaked to the press on purpose as this is our asking fee for him. To be honest putting that in there is to his advantage, not ours, as if someone offers it and he wants to go we cant stop him. OK?”

Interviewer: “So why's he not signing – it's the money isn't it Ronko? Isn't it. Greedy little bastard…”

Koeman: “No, I don't think so. He seems happy with the financials. He's a down to earth lad and recognises he's a rich man already.”

Interviewer: “So – what is it? Is it the “Champions League” chestnut? Is it Ronko? Come on, spill it for the fans…”

Koeman: “He's mentioned it, of course. You know this is what they all say. That and image rights. Duvet covers, that sort of thing. But he's an Evertonian, which I believe, and that's important to him. Not like that twat Lukaku. I'll tell you all about Rom after this if you've got time in the show – unbelievable stuff. Either that or in the bar – we are going out after aren't we? Any way – no. What he wants in his contract is a “StopDrop” clause putting in.”

Interviewer: “A “StopDrop” clause? I've never heard of that – what's that when it's at home Ronko?”

Koeman: “It's a new thing. Basically he says that he's been disrespected by the club by being dropped. It's bad for his international profile – and even worse for his duvet cover sales, which his agent got very angry about in our last meeting. The “StopDrop” clause enables him to choose which games he does and doesn't want to play in.”

Interviewer: “Oh….erm…and what's wrong with that Ronko…?”

Koeman: “Well, I don't think that's his choice. As the manager I think it's up to me whether he plays or not.”

Interviewer: Cue belly laughs from Interviewer “What?! Hahahaha – you're a joker Ronko, you really are? Up to you?! How to run the team? You're a fucking deadbeat Ron! A “has been” – you're nothing! What the fuck do you know! Hahaha – I've heard it all now. “Up to me”. Brilliant! Who do you think you are Ronko? Jock Fucking Stein? “Up to me”….wait till I tell the lads…hahaha! Fucking priceless!” (walking off)

Koeman: “Hey, mate…where are you going…? I thought we were going for a drink? I've got loads more on Rom that you don't know. And Jags. And the Docks – it's a farce the whole thing, we're really moving to Malaysia, part of the big plan…..and Moshiri…I've got loads on Mo…..mate.. come back….what about that drink….? I've got some puff too…come on….”

But I'm sure what I heard was he was going to talk to the board on Monday and then they would make a statement….? Perhaps I was wrong.

Previous situations with players who wanted away was that there was a club wanting them and turning their heads: Man City with Stones and, before him, Lescott; Real Madrid with Tommy Gravesen; Man Utd with Rooney – and boy, do they make it public.

With Ross, not a peep from any of the so-called big boys or anyone come to that.

Very strange goings on – not even wild guesses from the Red Tops.

I actually hope he moves on now. I think that if he went to one of our competitors, he would actually weaken them. There is no way we should be offering him a bumper contract and as a result, not strengthening our own team.

He is a luxury player who can turn it on at home against the Bournemouths of this world. In the big games, it's akin to playing with 10 men at times. Statistics show that he creates chances and goals but they don't show the terrible decision-making and attitude where the game just passes him by.

We've had some great memories of Ross in a blue shirt but unfortunately it's been too little and there are better options out there. I'll be disappointed if he does commit to Everton. Sad.

He wouldn't be the first footballer who peaked at a very early age and might not have the passion he once felt for the game. He is a very rich young man whose light might've burnt out.

Or is it only based on 10 years in the first team?

He also says Ross is one of the best players in the Premier League. Given that he hasn't progressed since he was 18 when Leon kept him out of the team. Is Leon trying to snare a new contract by insinuating he's be the best player in the Premier League nowadays?

A good case in point is Niall Quinn who was asked about some Man City player moving to another club. Quinn, with a straight face, replied, "I don't like to talk about players who are still under contract". Well, blow me down, Niall, that's what you normally do every time you're on the box. Or does that rule just apply to former clubs?

When players start talking shite on the telly, or in the papers, a warning sign should come up telling us not to pay too much attention as it's just their groundless opinion.

Yes, okay... "holding the club to ransom" might be a wee little bit of a stretch. It makes the perhaps sizeable assumption that there is something more his lot want to see in the contract, and then he would sign.

But your inference is right: he may have decided nothing will make him sign. If that is the case, then people have every right to say "get rid" coz he is turning his back on us in a much worse way than Rooney.

What a contrast eh?

Kenwright on Rooney: "We won't sell him, even for £50M."

Everton on Barkley "Sign or we'll sell you for £50M."

Why would they do that, Stan? (#83) – Because he is "pulling a contract stunt"!!!

Love it, Mr Green (#80) – You captured Ronko with his pants down. He really is shockingly unprofessional, giving all that away and not even getting a drink for his troubles.

Will (#72) how else would a journo, back in February mind, basically nail the whole saga?

Everton star ready to spark transfer frenzy by delaying contract decision

Oh of course... he just made it up, didn't he. Silly me.

I thought that a move to Spurs was rumoured quite some time ago and then recently Spurs said that at the price Sigurdsson was better value than Barkley at Everton's asking price of 㿞M.

All hearsay, of course.

"Spurs representatives had met with Barkley's representatives but, after the meeting, their interest had cooled".

Only speculation on my part but I think Barkley is after some reassurance on game time cos he wants to get back in the England setup and is concerned about all the players we are supposed to be signing.

For all those waxing lyrical about Ross, ask yourself does he even come close to Hazard, Willian, Eriksen, Dele Alli, Son etc who have all scored lots of goals as well as looking interested on the pitch.

Ross is built like the perfect centre-forward and has tremendous natural talent but never imposes himself on a game... and okay, you can say our movement up front isn't great – but there are times when he could do a lot more.

Of the five players you mention only one is eligible for England, no? Apart from his skill, my liking of Barkley is that he makes himself available to take a pass which can't be said of at least 8 of his teammates well, not in the opposition's half anyway.

Oh of course... he just made it up, didn't he. Silly me."

-----------

"A story from the Daily Star about a brand-new Grand Theft Auto game based on real-life killer Raoul Moat has been pulled following an uproar over the fact that the U.K. news site made the whole thing up."

Link

• ToffeeWeb editor Michael Kenrick has decided not to cancel his pre-order, just in case, because there's 'no smoke, without fire' and a journalist for the Star would surely never make shit up (err...even though, a few years back, there was that widely publicised resignation letter from one of their employees fessing up to the fact that he and his colleagues regularly plucked fake stories out their arse under explicit instruction from their boss).

----------

"What a contrast eh?

Kenwright on Rooney: "We won't sell him, even for £50M."

Everton on Barkley "Sign or we'll sell you for £50M."

Contrast? Let's see.

The first was a posturing pack of bollocks and was always likely to be proven to be so.

The second is a posturing pack of boll...err...Wait on a minute, Michael! What are you trying to pull here?

Sorry John, but there's false logic to your underlying premise. Be skeptical by all means, but when it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... How else do they come up with "contract delay"?

"But the midfielder, who does not appear to have had the smoothest of relationships with Koeman since he arrived at Goodison Park last summer is in no rush to extend his deal."

Yes, I see it - but it came from where?

I can imagine the relationship was not ideal due to seeing Koeman's rather overt scapegoating, which is recorded on film. That kind of thing is taken into account when considering one's working circumstance.

To say Barkley's camp actively released that to the press, is speculation.

Martinez did Barkley no favours, other than turning him into a regular starter for Everton, which should have stood Ross in very good stead with regards to experience but he never improved him as a player, and it's possible the kid was even going backwards.

Step forward Ronald Koeman, who gave Ross a few home truths perhaps? And he might have even got him pointing in the right direction once again because the kid is slowly starting to show a lot more consistency. But he's still a long way from being anywhere near the finished article and maybe this is why we have got this stand-off?

No way will Koeman be deciding how much money the club should pay Ross every week, but he might say he doesn't think he's worth paying what Ross's agent is asking for?

But if the burden of proof is a more reasonable balance of probabilities, then yes, I would say it is more likely than not that this story included sources close to Barkley.

It is very unusual for speculative player-related stories to talk of players delaying their decision on a contract that is (or will be) put before them — rather specific wording which seems to be exactly what Barkley is doing in that he hasn't said he will not sign; neither has he said he will sign; nor that he wants more money; nor more playing time... nor more image rights... nor that he wants to leave... nor that he wants to join Spurs, Man Utd etc. None of that in the story. And none of that reported subsequently.

Therefore, on the balance of probabilities, this story, effectively coming out of nowhere, seems to be pretty much spot on — three months later and nothing has come up that would let you say "Nah, bullshit. It's in the Daily Star.. they obviously just made it up."

No, I put it to you that, on the balance of probabilities, it is more likely than not that someone in the Barkley camp helped them with this story. More likely than someone from the club. (That has a lower probability in my view, but still possible.)

More likely that it was completely made up, as John seems to be suggesting? Well, I want their lottery numbers in that case.

Please stop, you're just encouraging what has become a circular argument. People in entrenched positions writing ever longer posts, communicating through megaphones. There is no right or wrong in this, no real facts just opinions, repeated over and over again.

It has long become tiresome.

End Of The Road?

I can understand you not attempting to justify your sources on the basis of 'beyond reasonable doubt', which is a strong burden of proof. But, are you really willing to use 'balance of probabilities'? I ask you this because, really, this is also a strong burden of proof, albeit not as strong as the other one.

'Balance of probabilities' is the burden of proof for civil legal cases. Are you really saying that you regard the 'evidence' you use @98 as strong enough to give you confidence to, say, launch a civil legal case on the basis of it, and thereby risk all the costs entailed by potentially losing such a case? Really?

I'm treating it literally, because it is more likely than not that the journalist in question had some sort of tip-off (see other thread), more likely than not from someone close to or in the Barkley camp. I say that only with the benefit of hindsight given the apparent accuracy of the story when compared with subsequent events.

But, no, I will not be launching a civil legal case on the strength of it. Strange that you should think that. Really strange...

We really don't know but I am sure it will all be resolved soon but I cannot see things remaining the same now that an ultimatum was issued by Ron.

My guess is that Ross will leave but nobody has really shown an interest so far that we know of.

The fresh reports are stating Ross has stood by his decision to not sign the contract on offer, not that the club are unsure whether they want him to. All the word coming from the Everton camp is saying there is a contract offer that they want Barkley to sign.

If it was a case of no contract being there to sign, Barkleys camp would absolutely have come out and said so. They haven't.

There is a contract. He doesn't want to stay. It seems to be that simple at this point. Only question they appears to remain is whether anybody will offer money for him to go elsewhere.

Is there any whispers about why he's not signing? Surely a true blue couldn't turn his back on his club?

Does he not get on with the manager? Does he think the manager doesn't rate him? Is it cash he's after? Has he been told/does he assume that another club wants him?

In the absence of facts, opinions are welcome.

The burden of proof is a legal phrase referring to who must prove the case, that is the Crown Prosecution Service in most criminal matters, or the Applicant in most civil cases.

What you guys are actually on about, is the Standard of Proof. Which is nearly always, "Beyond reasonable doubt" in criminal matters, or "on the balance of probabilities" in civil matters.

Hope that clears that up.

Absolutely nothing has been said or leaked by his camp as to why he won't sign, so there isn't really anything to base an opinion off of. To do so is nothing but completely baseless speculation. His camp has said nothing publicly. But the club has said there is a contract for him to sign, and he will not sign it.

It appears from your answer that you don't really know what you mean.

Maybe journalists really do work off tip-offs as you'd expect some sort of speculation one way or another.

That seems the most likely outcome. The chances of anyone paying £50 million for him are zero.

Stan, I know exactly what I mean and I've said it multiple times, to the point of exasperation for some readers (Sorry Chris!).

Apologies for having to resort to this, but please reread my posts and see if you can understand the points being made. It is a better option, I assure you, than having me repost the entire premise for the umpteenth time.

Sorry, that sounds disingenuous. Have you considered that confirmation bias is not going to allow either of us to adopt the other's perspective on this? I suggest we stop now unless you really think I can help you further.

What makes no sense is that Barkley was (by implication) stalling from the summer of last year (or earlier, if you take "12 months" literally). That puts it before the arrival of Koeman!!!

I'm guessing Barkley knew his career trajectory was stalling under Martinez, but why would he not have had new hope under the incoming new manager?

Okay, no smoke without fire... we have to conclude that he really does not get on with, or vehemently dislikes Koeman and wants out for that reason – why else would he not sign??? [Stan: no proof, no evidence, just a preponderance of probability, based on reading numerous possibly fallacious newspaper reports etc...]

To go a whole year in this state of limbo has to have been a significant burden on his performance level and degree of confidence in himself – that has to factor into his "indifferent" form (with ups and downs) all season, and a seriously pathetic return of just 5 goals through a maddening reluctance to shoot like we all know he can.

I will be heartbroken to see one of our own go. I was when Rooney left; I blamed Moyes and never ever forgave him for it. Interesting parallel that suggests... as Rooney clearly fell out with Moyes in his final season and I feel sure that was a major factor in his desire to leave Everton.

So, for consistency, I should perhaps be looking at Koeman in the same critical light, as being the one who could and should have prevented this from happening. Indeed, if I accept a segment of prevailing opinion on this, it is that Koeman will be the one who has effectively driven him out of our club.

Just that puzzling matter of the "12 months" that might let him off the hook...

I have zero interest whatsoever in watching an Everton side finishing around 7th in the league play in some new stadium in 3-5 years. I want to see this club signing and keeping the players that allow us to take it to any opponent. If we don't see the club moving in that direction this Summer then we are in massive trouble in the future.

The reconstruction of the club under new ownership has been there under the surface. Debt cleared, sponsorship and commercial progress.

But it needs to be overt, tangible, clear progress. We have simply restored the status quo, to our financial status of 7th.

Koeman offered and aimed for European football at the seasons beginning, that was actually 5th or higher, and or a cup win by definition. By those standards he didn't get there, but did find a weak premier league to his liking and we got 7th.

I fear despite the posturing, we ain't gonna "bring it" under this fella.

Player purchasing & preparation badly underperformed last summer, it cannot afford to do so this summer. Top five will take time and £100 millions. Ask Spurs.