Strike While the Iron is Hot

If Everton retain any serious interest in their top two managerial targets of last year, they should reopen the communication lines to Messers Silva and/or Fonseca immediately

Lyndon Lloyd 13/03/2018 175comments  |  Jump to last
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Back in November, Everton — and Farhad Moshiri in particular, we assume — were serious enough about wanting to bring in the young, vibrant and forward-thinking Marco Silva that they were prepared to offer Watford up to £15m in compensation to lure him away from Hertfordshire.

They also, it was reported, approached Shakhtar Donetsk to inquire about the possibility of the Ukrainian club releasing another Portuguese, Paulo Fonseca, from his contract six months early. Like Watford, they declined in unmistakable terms and Everton, sitting in 18th place and coming off alarming 5-1 and 4-1 defeats to Atalanta and Southampton respectively, were forced to go back to Sam Allardyce with a revised offer to bail them out.

Allardyce ultimately agreed to an 18-month contract, a compromise illustrative of the unease at a last-resort appointment that was, hopefully, designed to be short-term and with one goal in mind — safety from relegation by May this year.

The Blues sit 10 points above the bottom three now and three points from the traditional 40-point mark that usually guarantees another season on the top-flight. Allardyce's job is, for all the supporters' intents and purposes, done and while sights should again be trained up the Premier League table over the remaining eight games, it is surely incumbent on the major shareholder and the Board of Directors to now take swift action to get Moshiri's ambitious project back on track following its unexpected derailment under the stewardship of Ronald Koeman.

From Old Trafford to Molineux, Stade Louis II to Metalist's Oblast Sports Complex (the temporary home of Shakhtar), managers from the western side of the Iberian Peninsula are all the rage at the moment and with good reason. But how serious was the Everton hierarchy about securing its own diamond Portu-geezer to lead a bright new future at Goodison Park and on to Bramley-Moore Dock just a few months ago? The Toffees' next move — or the absence of one — will be telling in that regard.

Because Silva, sacked last month following Watford's collapse in form — a fall-off in results and performances the Hornets blamed on Everton for unsettling their man — remains a free agent. He offers Premier League experience, albeit limited to just under a season's worth with two different — not to mention lesser (with all due respect to Hull and Watford) — clubs, and a reputation as a progressive coach.

But will that rather uncomfortable episode at Watford which saw them transform from European hopefuls to relegation candidates over the course of just 11 games have caused Moshiri to re-think? With rumours of the 40-year-old being eyed by Benfica (he denies them) and Southampton reportedly considering him as replacement for Manuel Pellegrino, he may not have long to ponder.

At Shakhtar, meanwhile, Fonseca's duties under his current terms are almost done. Donetsk were eliminated from the Champions League this evening at the hands of Roma; the end of an impressive campaign that saw them come within a hair of qualifying for the quarter finals. Along the way, Fonseca's stock has risen dramatically, with commentators fawning over his side's defensive organisation, discipline and attacking verve. He has also described managing in the Premier League as his dream.

The Ukrainian league season comes to an end in the next few weeks and, shortly afterwards, Fonseca's contract. While Shakhtar would love to keep him, it's almost inevitable that one of European football's most promising young managers will end up elsewhere. That, too, might leave little scope for dithering on Everton's part if the 44-year-old is seen as a better choice than his compatriot.

All of which assumes, of course, that Allardyce isn't viewed by Moshiri as anything beyond a temporary stop-gap. Nothing the veteran Englishman has done at Everton so far suggests he would be the right man to lead the Blues' renaissance and almost 10,000 supporters who have voted in ToffeeWeb's poll appear to agree.

Nevertheless, the club could drift on into the summer and beyond with Allardyce at the helm to see where it goes in some half-hearted hope that he will effect an unforeseen transformation over the final year of his contract. They might also have an entirely different candidate up their sleeves whom they could draft in at the end of this season and surprise us all.

If, however, Everton retain any serious interest in who appeared to be two of their top targets in October and November last year and view them as the best options out there, they could strike while the iron is hot and reopen the communication lines to Messers Silva and/or Fonseca immediately. Nothing ventured (or, in this case, revisited), nothing gained.

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Reader Comments (175)

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Keith Harrison
1 Posted 13/03/2018 at 23:52:38
Fonseca for me, Lyndon. With a new Director of Football, and a broom sweeping most of (Unsy excepted) the ex player coaching staff with the Sams and Craig Shakespeare away. By the way, what on earth does he do??

I hope one decent win against Brighton has not quelled the unrest, and given Sam leeway to go on into next season. He's already talked us into a Zulu type rearguard action against the mighty Stoke away!!

Bill Gienapp
2 Posted 13/03/2018 at 23:59:42
I would definitely endorse a move for Fonseca, and he seems like a realistic choice, particularly if there's any truth to him having his heart set on the Premier League. Unless his stock has risen to the point that Chelsea would consider him, we'd unquestionably be his best option.
Drew O'Neall
3 Posted 14/03/2018 at 00:20:30
What does winning the Ukrainian League with Shaktar Donetsk quality you for? We might as well give the job to Brendan Rogers.

Give me their director of football (assuming he presided over the acquisition of Willian and Henrick Mickatarian etc) but not the Johnny come lately manager.

Keith Harrison
4 Posted 14/03/2018 at 00:34:06
It qualifies you for the Champions League. Which they made a very decent fist of - if it was qualify that you mis-spelt as quality.
John Pierce
5 Posted 14/03/2018 at 00:39:56
Fonseca, a progressive type with a clear pattern of play. Would be more of a coach than a manager, something the club needs at this time.

Were Everton to ditch Sam now and get Fonseca I'd be astonished, and equally impressed. Moshiri's appointment record is shaky, he cannot afford another dud.

With a shortened off season, and World Cup taking action now gives a new incumbent the best chance to succeed.

He is likely to drag the odd player from Shaktar, no bad thing.

Lawrence Green
6 Posted 14/03/2018 at 01:19:28
It has to be Fonseca for me too, what's the point of giving it to another promising young manager such as Howe or Dyche et al?

Everton FC has to make up for a great deal of lost time and although the aforementioned Premier League managers may in time do a good job, how long will it take them to adjust to a bigger club - how would the playing squad react to them? Would they really be a step up from what we've had in the last twenty years?

Fonseca won't guarantee anything either, but he does at least have experience of European football and almost took his current side to the last 8 of the Champions League. He may not fancy Everton, but I do hope that Moshiri has the nous to approach him, if he turns us down we haven't lost anything and we can turn our attentions back to the 'safer' hands of those with Premier League experience.

The next Everton FC manager whoever it happens to be cannot be another dour, play for a point away from home type of guy, he must be a man with a mission, somebody with a style and a swagger to put Everton back at least close to where we'd like to be, I happen to think that Fonseca could be that manager.

Darren Hind
7 Posted 14/03/2018 at 02:09:46
I'd take Howe over Fonseca all day long.

The guy blew his chance at Porto (expectations too high ?) and with Kyiv struggling, has found the opposition in the Ukranian league to be almost non existent. Not many managers would fail to win that league with Shakhtar.

I agree we should strike while the irons hot, but with The Guardian, The Mirror, The Metro, Sky Sports and TalkSport all reporting Arsenal's interest in Howe, we need to step in first.

Pay Bournemouth what they want and let's have a guy who knows what it's like to face, Chelsea, Arsenal, The Mancs, Liverpool every week..

If this fella can do what he is doing with buttons, imagine what he could do with a decent war chest.

William Cartwright
8 Posted 14/03/2018 at 02:38:23
I can't see how Allardyce can stay at Everton if he is seriously talking about putting in a strong defensive performance at Stoke? I mean seriously? Is he so ingrained in his own thinking that the 3 points against Brighton were a one-off?

Similarly I am nervous that Moshiri may be seriously considering him to stay for a season to continue stabilizing the ship (yawn, vomit, expletive, insult).

Moshiri has me on the edge of my seat waiting for his next move. Fonesca under CEO Cortese would be absolutely brilliant.

David Ellis
9 Posted 14/03/2018 at 02:44:08
Howe or Fonseca would do it for me.

Howe is a blue...and has PL experience, so that would tip it for me as a better bet both long term (being a blue) and short term (Premier League experience). Fonseca would be off in a flash to a Champions League club if he had any kind of success whereas Howe might be a bit stickier (and being English less likely to go abroad which reduces the jobs he would leave us for apart from the England job, but I think the days are gone when this was seen as bigger than club football).

Silva would be a bigger risk.

Allardyce has not done enough, and doesn't seem to realise that more is required and expected here.

Ajay Gopal
10 Posted 14/03/2018 at 03:07:19
I agree with Darren, I am impressed with Howe. Given some decent funds to play with, he could turn us into a footballing team.

My only concern with Howe would be that, in these days of player power, how would the star players (especially the foreign ones) respond to a younger manager with no previous history of success?

We should look no further than Howe and Fonseca; in my opinion, any one of them would do. Having said that, if Allardyce gets us playing good football and results over the next 8 games, would it not be right to give him a longer stint?

Karl Meighan
11 Posted 14/03/2018 at 05:46:57
I would like to see a change but there are no guarantees in football, I would give Allardyce another season as chopping and changing manager two or three times a year just leaves somebody else deadwood that leads to a poor squad which we currently have.
Philip Bunting
12 Posted 14/03/2018 at 05:50:41
Howe for me all day long.
Phil Walling
13 Posted 14/03/2018 at 07:04:05
With Moshiri's record to date, whoever he chooses will be shite. He's totally clueless on the football front and has rubbish advisers!
John G Davies
14 Posted 14/03/2018 at 07:09:41
Ajay,

I've just had a look at Eddie's record against top 6. Since promotion in 2015, Howe has taken 13 points out of a possible 96 (32 games). If that's correct... wow!

I haven't looked but I would wager Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez all comfortably beat that. You could probably add the genius Tony Pulis to a list with better records against the top six than the Bournemouth manager

Mike Kehoe
15 Posted 14/03/2018 at 07:45:24
William Cartwright,

You criticise Lardiola for saying he wants to see a strong defensive performance at Stoke but what's wrong with that? I think the criticism would be absolutely spot on if he said he'd like to see a limp-wristed and frivolous defensive display.

It would be so impressive and so totally un-Everton to move on Fonseca now and have Lardiola out with the new man installed and able to fully assess the squad before the end of the season and plan effectively to be ready and organised for the new season.

Rob Young
16 Posted 14/03/2018 at 07:52:00
I agree, if they still want either of these then bring them in asap. Let them have the team for the remainder of the season, get to know the players and the place and already know what they want and need before the summer starts.

Exit Sam asap.

John Keating
17 Posted 14/03/2018 at 07:57:23
You are spot on when you say Allardyce was brought in for one thing only. Hopefully we reach the so-called magical 40-point mark and deep sighs all around.

I think he will see the season out; however, I do believe Moshiri will learn from the errors he's made so far. I do hope he has already identified the next manager and like players, he has already made approaches via various agents.

There is so much to do to turn this club around, we can't waste a day on the playing side and need the new man indoors immediately after the final game of the season.

Martin Nicholls
18 Posted 14/03/2018 at 08:04:03
Karl Meighan (#11) – I salute you! The first (and only!) one of the 600 or so making up the 6% who want Allardyce to stay to publicly identify himself!
Noleen Daya
19 Posted 14/03/2018 at 08:11:31
Even if he takes us one or two places up the table, I will never accept Slimy Sam as our manager. He should be sacked for being a revolting person alone. As far as I'm concerned he has brought our club into disrepute with his "style" of play and his comments.

Fonseca definitely (and I do think he is quite the looker), but that has nothing to do with his prowess as a manager/coach... nudge-nudge, wink-wink...

Bob Parrington
20 Posted 14/03/2018 at 08:24:56
I just read in the Echo (o o o!) that Allardyce wants Wilshere (Arsenal) and Jones (Man Utd). Why on earth???
Bob Parrington
21 Posted 14/03/2018 at 08:26:41
I meant to add – So what are Alardyce and Walsh thinking???

A sign that we need a different management team, eh?

Jamie Evans
22 Posted 14/03/2018 at 08:44:01
Paulo Fonseca, yes please.

Please.

Jer Kiernan
23 Posted 14/03/2018 at 08:54:14
Please no Fat Sam and no Silva next season but also let us stop spending vast sums on average footballers, when we could easily tempt a manager who has actually WON something to Goodison for 㾶 million a year, that's 㿊M for 3 seasons = 1 Klaassen or Schneiderlin by my maths.

So sell some of our deadwood Schneiderlin et al and offer a manager who has won something ٦-12 million a year and lets see how that works for once

Should Conte leave Chelsea, Simeone, Anchellotti let's aim high. I am sick to my fuckin teeth of us getting managers that may succeed or show some promise on the cheap?? And then throw money at buying shite over-hyped footballers!!! Put this money in the kitty for our new manager

Please, somebody who has won more than the club raffle for our next manager.

Liam Reilly
24 Posted 14/03/2018 at 09:08:25
Karl (#11),

You must me one of the 5% in the current poll.

It would be madness for me not to have a new man in place before the end of the season. He'll needs an opportunity to examine the current players and staff and ship out the deadwood and to have a full summer to recruit and prepare the players for the new season.

Anything else is negligence on the behalf if the club's custodians (including the dreaded thought of keeping Allardyce for any longer).

Jim Harrison
25 Posted 14/03/2018 at 09:23:31
Emery likely to be available this year again. That's who I would like.

Love Jer's capitals on the WON something. Both Bobby and Ronny had WON something. Didn't help. Pep has WON plenty, but only ever with sides that could out buy virtually every opponent. Ancelloti has won (got bored of caps) lots, and is available, but has he ever had a build job to perform?

Fat Sam may have been a panic buy, but he was brought in to do a job. As said before, he has largely done that. There is a different job that needs doing next season, and a coach / manager with the right skill set should be employed. If, and it will remain 'if' for some time, we manage to get into a position where we can really challenge at the top and really compete for top players, we may stand a chance of getting an A-list manager.

Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 14/03/2018 at 09:32:07
I wanted Allardyce to come to save us from relegation; most probably he has. He hasn't impressed me or many Evertonians so I can't wait for him to go.

I haven't got a clue who will make a good manager, but thanks to Jay Wood, in one of his posts, I read up on Cortese, former executive chairman of Southampton, and he, I think, would make a great job of looking after Everton's future on and off the field.

He is available and wants to return to England and the Premier League; have a good look at him, Mr Moshiri, you might do yourself and Everton a big favour.

Tony Everan
28 Posted 14/03/2018 at 09:39:11
We need to be coy and also diplomatic here. I don't want us to be chasing after a lost cause. Far better to do everything behind the scenes. Make sure, if it is Fonesca, he wants to join us and take the project on.

The worst possible outcome is a 3-month saga ending in failure. It would be inconceivable.

I see Fonseca and Silva as young, hungry and progressive managers. Either could bring stability and a route to success. Howe, I like a lot too, but I feel he is slightly more of a gamble. I like his personality and overall has done wonders at Bournemouth.

I'm certain that Mr Moshiri will “Strike while the iron is hot “.

Jer Kiernan
29 Posted 14/03/2018 at 10:25:19
@Jim

Sorry I should have said "proven track record" or "successful" instead of "won". Ron's win record per seasons managed was shite Bobby did win the FA cup he also got relegated same season .While its not the club raffle it does not constitute proven success although we at EFC would crave even a run in the FA Cup this is more related to how much we have allowed our clubs standards to fall with our loser mentality which leads me on to my next point and relates to my original point at aiming high

As you state "If, and it will remain if for some time, we manage to get into a position where we can really Challenge at the top and really compete for top players we may stand a chance of getting an A-list manager" – Could have come straight from Kenwright's mouth that stuff

I am sorry but this is the loser mentality that plagues this club, We are ready now (ie, we have the money) to tempt a Top manager???

Anchelloti as an example is managing in China? You think this is for footballing reasons? It is money.

Eh we have lots of money to blow on shite footballers, 㿊 million would put our new proven track record manager as top paid in Europe for 3 seasons for the price of a Klaassen or Schneiderlin

It's a no-brainer for me. Let me put it this way: let us splash out on a manager that other clubs above us in the Top 6 would be happy to have in their dugout. Not the likes of Silva cos we like the cut of his gib, he has relegated Hull and Watford were in free fall when he got launched – what the fuck do we think is going to happen if we hire him???

As long as the fans accept shit football and false horizons, that's exactly what the club will deliver, There is always more than a hum of "steady on there" with anybody who suggests we show some ambition on here.

That and the fact that we can only dream of having a run in the FA Cup are interlinked. We finally have the money – let us throw off the Moyes-esque shackles and make Simone and offer he cannot refuse.

Paul Tran
30 Posted 14/03/2018 at 10:57:57
This is a matter of strategy.

At one point, Howe was managing on buttons. He's now backed by a Russian owner. He hasn't spent the money we have, but he has more than buttons. He has a habit of losing games and rabbits on about his 'principles'. Will he be better with better players, or will he be another Martinez? People on here talk about Howe like other team's fans used to talk to me about Martinez.

If you want a manager who has really done a job with buttons, look up the table at Dyche. That's up the table, ahead of us. A manager who responded to relegation by not moaning about his tiny budget and taking them straight back up. And then took them to seventh, getting results at bigger clubs.

Do we need someone with Premier League experience? Recent history suggests not. Fonseca has a great record in a weakened league and took his side to the edge of the Champions League last eight.

Difficult decision. If it's an English manager, I'd go for Dyche. If I had the absolute choice, I'd go for Fonseca to rebuild and reboot the playing side of the club.

Dennis Stevens
31 Posted 14/03/2018 at 11:09:13
Howe would be effective in both the short & medium term. He's also more likely to stay for the long term. No more poncey "projects" designed to set the managerial incumbent up for his next job. The job is meant to be about Everton!

Moshiri should act immediately to get his man in asap. The first benefit of this would be to allow the new man time with the squad before the season ends. The second benefit is that it removes Allardyce sooner rather than later!

Steve Brown
32 Posted 14/03/2018 at 11:20:44
Managers like Fonseca, Silva, Dyche and Howe might be good prospects, but they are B league managers. You only have to look at the clubs they manage or have managed most recently. Are Shaktar, Watford, Burnley and Bournemouth the level we aspire to? Granted, it is the level that we have been operating at this season even on good day!

Liverpool hired Klopp – Bundesliga Champion and Champions League finalist – at a time when they were at best a Europa League level team. They are now top four despite the fact that their wealth does not exceed our own now. So the question is: How ambitious we are and what is our level of aspiration?

Ian Hollingworth
33 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:28:25
Agree with Steve (32) we are looking at B list managers to run a C list club set up.

We need winners across the club, in the boardroom, on the managerial staff and players who desire desperately to be winners. Anything else will be more of the same from Everton.

John Harrop
34 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:32:00
We simply can't stumble on with Allardyce, that's for sure. What if he were to continue into next season and we were to find ourselves languishing in the bottom half of the table after ten games? Who could we hire as a replacement then? All the best managers would have been snapped up by then.
Jay Woods
[LAT]

35 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:34:30
Shaktar put Napoli out of the Champions League, effectively. Would we have been capable of doing the same? 100% no.
Dan Hollingworth
36 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:35:08
Ian @33

Holiday must be cracking Dad ;-)

Kevin Tully
37 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:48:53
We've signed quite a few players from 'lesser' clubs, or relegation battlers and it hasn't exactly worked out well, has it?

If we were to recruit Dyche, or Howe, the first thing they would do is to bring in more fodder from the clubs they were managing. We would be talking more tens of millions wasted. I'm not saying these players couldn't do a job, but they won't take us into Europe or win us anything either. So for that reason alone, I would stay away from a domestic appointment.

What have we got to lose by bringing in Fonseca? We couldn't be any worse to watch, that's for sure. We've played it safe for years now, time to take a flyer!

Andy Meighan
38 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:50:25
Fat Sam, Lardiola, Hippo Head, Rat Bisto Tits... It's all getting a bit tiresome. None of it is even remotely funny – it's tedious.

You get the manager you deserve... and we've got him Deal with it but spare me the infantile name-calling.

Brian Harrison
39 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:55:45
I am not convinced that, if Allardyce does get 7th, that Moshiri would remove him. He might think he has come in and steadied the ship and if he achieves 7th will have matched what Koeman achieved last season, and there were no calls for Koeman to be sacked last season, in fact many thought 7th was about were we should finish.

But let's assume that Moshiri realizes that Allardyce isn't the guy to take us forward, then I wonder who he will go for. Well, we know he went for Silva and rumour has it that he approached Shaktar for Fonseca. So I assume that these 2 are at the forefront of his ideas if he replaces Allardyce. I am afraid we are not considered to be a club were the very best would be interested in joining, and let's be honest why should they. My list would consist of Simeone or Loew but I know that they wouldn't come here.

I know some have suggested Howe or Dyce I don't fancy either, Howe is just another Martinez and Dyce is not that far removed from the style of Allardyce. He likes to play with 1 or sometimes 2 big men up front just like Allardyce did at Bolton with Davies. Also I can't see either of these attracting the type of players to help us battle for a top 6 or even higher.

John G Davies
40 Posted 14/03/2018 at 12:56:22
Just to follow on from my post this morning in the interest of accuracy.
Tony Pulis does indeed have a better record against the top six than Howe.
Rob Young
41 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:07:48
Sadly I don't think he can even get us to 7th.

He did however say we had a 'brilliant' season last time. Really?? Deluded.

Ian Hollingworth
42 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:08:01
Dan @ 36 it's only 8am here so just getting my Everton fix in before another day of holiday fun... lol!
Peter Laing
43 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:08:49
The state of affairs at Everton would suggest that the winds of change may finally be blowing. Over the past few weeks, there have been suggestions that, along with Elstone, the Club could also be looking at potential departure of Kenwright and Woods. Add in speculation concerning Steve Walsh's position as director of football and the future of Sam Allardyce and his backroom team we could be looking at a complete revolution.

We definitely need a figure who is able to galvanize the Club from a financial perspective and if that man is Nicola Cortese it would be a shrewd appointment by Farhad Moshiri. In addition to Cortese we would do no harm in approaching Les Reed as a potential Director of Football and worked miracles with Southampton over the years. I would also stay with the South Coast connection and go with a long term appointment in the shape of Eddie Howe.

The Club needs a long-term strategy and a clean sweep of the broom is needed from top to bottom – that is even before we begin to look at the current squad which is largely a shambles.

Rob Young
44 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:12:11
With regards to a Director of Football, there is talk of a Dutch guy from PSV replacing Walsh.

Why would a guy from Holland with no experience here know what is needed for the Premier League?

Dermot Byrne
45 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:19:20
I think if rumours are right this could be a big change for us. Like many, it is a need to change senior Officers and Directors that is crucial.

Weird thing is the balance between "history" we know and sometimes get cynically get fed and becoming a modern Premier League team. I know a Man City fan who gets less enjoyment now.

Anyway, we we will be fed-up again soon, of course, regardless!

Keith Harrison
46 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:21:32
Andy (#38). Totally agree. I think Jabba the Hut gets a bum rap on here.

Svelte Sam should be given a 5-year contract.

Nurse, NURSE!!!!

Martin Clark
47 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:25:01
Darren (#7), your point with Howe about doing well with buttons to having a war chest reminded me of Moyes. Not saying he'll be the same but just a little worrying the lack of experience of spending big might have.

Moyes would probably still have been our coach had he not screwed us and then shot him self in the foot. He had a good team spirit at Everton that may have been more good fortune than management but showed a lack of knowledge when dealing with big bucks when at Man Utd.

Having said the above, I like Howe and would love a coach who could get Everton back playing as a team and working together, it's what we desperately need and would be a priority for me whoever the manager is.

Eddie Dunn
48 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:44:55
Like many above it would be Howe for me. He knows the Premier League, seems to be an affable character and his teams play attacking football with verve and passion. Fonseca has no experience in the Premier League, and Silva hasn't shown enough in his two broken seasons for me to have great faith.

Forget managers with European experience – we won't need it for a couple of years at best. Let's be realistic and go for a young, hungry coach who has already shown he has plenty to offer.

Howe.

Neil Cremin
49 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:48:39
A Managers:– like Simone, Emery, Conte or Anchelotti – only Simone has built his own team.

B Managers (foreign):– Fonseca, Silva – both are risks but Fonseca looks the more accomplished.

B Managers:– Dyche, Howe etc are risks and just as much an unknown as Silva or even Fonseca.

One B Manger (as labelled here) that I am surprised has not been considered is Chris Hughton. Plenty of experience in the Premier League, builds good teams. Was disgracefully treated at Newcastle but kept his dignity and now brought Brighton up from the Championship and works on a limited budget.

Paul Welsby
50 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:52:12
Eddie Howe? Sean Dyche? For fuck's sake – get out of that mindset Kenwright and Moyes blasted everyone with... little old Everton punching above our weight. Come on lads and lasses let's aim higher? Leave the last 20 years were they should be, in the past.
Steve Brown
51 Posted 14/03/2018 at 13:52:36
Jay @35, Martinez engineered a FA Cup Final win against Man City and Kenwright hired him off the back of it. One match means little.

Klopp won two league titles, one German Cup, one Supercup and reached one Champions League final. My point is that is the level if we truly aspire as a club to qualify regularly for the Champions League. We can't use lack of investment as an excuse now, but we are still C-List in terms of the club set-up as Ian says – institutional incompetence, lack of commercial capability, poor recruitment and terrible decision making characterise this club from top to bottom. The indications are that there may be a fundamental shake up in the summer.

The question is what is the level of our ambition on the footballing side? We fans set the tone on that. Judging by the names being quoted, it appears that our aspiration is to be a B-List team that competes for a Europa League spot at best. Nothing wrong with that, but if we get an A-List set up at the club I'd like an A-list manager and Moshiri has the money to hire one. My guess is that he will settle for one of the B-listers if we allow him to and we'll piss away another 3-4 years achieving nothing.

Craig Walker
53 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:01:15
I'm not convinced of Silva now and I wasn't when we looked like we would get him. The way Watford capitulated at Goodison in November was very Martinezesque. The fact that we unsettled him and Watford's results suffered makes me concerned what would happen if he did well at Everton and another team came sniffing around. I must admit that I don't know much about Fonseca.

One thing is for certain: I feel the same about Allardyce now as I did when he was first suggested - by appointing Allardyce we sent out the message that survival and mediocrity are good enough. I don't want to see Allardyce at Everton beyond this season. Thanks for keeping us up and enjoy your retirement. I'd like to forget about this season and move on. We need proven winners put in place throughout the club.

Darren Hind
54 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:10:34
Not sure why Howe is being compared to:

Dyce – He got relegated and his teams play shit football;

Martinez – he had an obsession with possession and was one of the only managers to relegate a team who were good enough to win the FA Cup

Moyes – WTF?

Neither do I understand why Howe is called B-lister as his accomplishments are already greater than the other managers mentioned.

Kevin Tully,

After weeks of really solid posts, you must have gone back on the ale. You can't dismiss a manager because you "suspect" they would bring in more fodder from their former teams? Who told you they would do that?

"What have we got to lose by bringing in Fonseca?" Well, we lost three years with Martinez, two with Koeman and about 25 years with Allardyce – or maybe it just seems that way.

If we are going to dismiss managers, let's at least offer some decent reasons...

Pete Clarke
55 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:14:28
I sincerely hope that Moshiri is on the lookout and doing his homework on future managers because if he is not then that means he is willing to give Allardyce a bit longer.

I have a good feeling about Howe but I had that with Martinez too. We need a manager who likes to play proper football and is intelligent enough to deal with all the issues of a club with ambition and surely we are due some luck with one after the last cock-ups.

Johan Elmgren
56 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:18:14
Regarding Silva and Hull's relegation, Hull had taken 13 points in 20 games when Silva was appointed. While he was in charge, they took 21 points in 18 games. And that with a crappy squad. So I wouldn't dispel him just because he was their manager when they got relegated. With that said I'd rather see Fonseca. And most important of all:

Allardyce out now!!

David Barks
57 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:32:51
There is a great big world outside of England, I suggest some of you start looking into it and sincerely hope those making the decisions finally do. Why do we need another Premier League retread from a poor club? Martinez - Wigan, Koeman - Southampton, Allardyce - shit club after shit club, and now Dyche or Howe.

For God's sake, can we please start looking at managers with a track record of success and do away with this nonsense notion that to succeed in the Premier League you must be familiar with the Premier League? It's utter nonsense that is spouted by the exact managers filling the media roles in between their next managerial sacking.

John G Davies
58 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:36:02
13 points out of a possible 96 against the top 6 is plenty enough reason for me to dismiss Howe.
Bobby Mallon
59 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:41:33
There are only two managers we should interview for the Job:

Roberto Mancini (FA Cup, Premier League, Community Shield)
Manuel Peligrini (Premier League, 2 League Cups)

Both done it in the Premier League with Man City... anyone will do.

Ciaran O'Brien
60 Posted 14/03/2018 at 14:59:08
We need to go for a progressive, young coach. I don't want a manager who says there here to “get results”, which there are too many around these days. Those type of managers specialize in draws and mid table finishes going nowhere. I want a coach who puts wins and good football first and foremost.

I agree with David's post above that we need to open our eyes and look elsewhere rather than just Premier League experience. I'm sick of seeing the same old managerial failures constantly getting new jobs such as Hughes, Big Sam, Pardew etc.

The only guys from England/Scotland I'd entertain as our new coach are Howe, Dyche, Rodgers and Hughton. However, they are not my first choice.

Eddie Howe has worked wonders with Bournemouth who play good football but his side can't defend and he reminds me of an English Martinez, plus a lot of people want him because he's a “one of us”, he's a Cherry through and through but liked us growing up, he's not a die hard Evertonian.

Dyche has worked wonders at Burnley too with a shoe string budget and had the balls to take Burnley back up and he has a good record against the Sky six but his tactics are too similar to Moyes and Big Sam, I don't want to see long ball pragmatic football with our supposed financial muscle we have.

Rodgers has done a better job at Celtic than the previous guy Ronny Delia but the Scottish Premier League is a one or two horse league and Celtic are championship standard. Plus he's a former Red Shite who talks a lot of bullshit like Martinez.

Hughton is an interesting one on that he was an assistant longer than a manager. He's done a brilliant job taking Brighton up and they will probably stay up but he has no real European experience.

The coach I want is Simeone who has built his own team at Atletico plus he hates losing but we aren't a top club yet. We should try for him though.

Failing that Fonseca looks the next best thing. We clearly wanted him back in November and his Shakhtar side plays great football, they played City of the park and were unlucky against them in the first game.

Other coaches we should look at are Mancini, Di Francesco at Roma, Gallardo at River, Leonardo Jardim at Monaco, Phillip Cocu and maybe Luis Enrique.

The main thing is get a proper Director of Football who has a good track record in recruiting and implementing a progressive style throughout the club because Walsh has been a total failure.

Len Hawkins
61 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:28:10
Yeah let's give the Dyce a roll see Howe we go we may win Silva but for Fonseca hurry up and decide.
Les Green
62 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:30:42
I like the idea of Claudio Ranieri as a dark horse candidate. He's shown what he do in the Premier League.
Eddie Dunn
63 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:31:14
David Barks, there is only one reason for a so-called big name manager to come here. Money. Koeman was a big name, known all over the world. That didn't work out too well.

Howe would be hungry for success.

Ian Burns
64 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:37:05
A very teasing article, Lyndon, I guess you knew it would create the sort of response we see above – great stuff and a terrific debate. Well done.

I don't pretend to know who we should approach for our next manager but some of the points made in this thread make interesting reading and the knowledge some people have of the wider game and managers is fascinating.

However, I do know one thing – Allardyce, please, please bozz off!

David Barks
65 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:39:47
Eddie,

Koeman was not a big name, in any way. He was at little Southampton, perennial selling club and feeder club to Liverpool. I'm talking about a big name manager with managerial success. And yes, of course the money is important, that's the reality if you want to be a club that wins anything. Or do you think Guardiola's lifetime ambition was to manage the might Manchester City?

Jay Harris
66 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:42:11
I shouldn't be surprised at the depth of knowledge on here producing some names I hadnt heard of or thought of.

The problems at EFC however run far deeper than a "new" manager.

There is no direction in the boardroom, poor management in every department of the club except EitC.

The squad is a mish-mash of different people's choices.

We have no real development plans for the kids to build them into Premier League quality.

In short the whole club needs a substantial overhaul which will involve big risks to achieve big rewards.

Other than that we will always amble along as plucky little Everton.

I believe we need to start at the top and bring in a new chairman, chief executive and Director of Football.

Let them set out the plan for the club and seek out a new management/ coaching team.

There have been some very good names mentioned on here for different positions including Nicola Cortese, David Dein, Les Reed, Monchi, Emry, Simeone, Ancelotti, Conte. Any of these could be part of a formidable team.

Sam has done his job and not shown the ability to achieve what we want so let him bow out gracefully at the end of the season and have plans in place for the future based on real ambition.

Jer Kiernan
67 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:53:42
Eddie @63

I have to agree with David @65,

Let's clear this up for once and for all and we can progress the debate, We have NEVER appointed a world class proven manager end of story, Koeman was living off his rep as a player which was fantastic as a manager he was rated but achieved fuck all.

Nor have we Employed a manager that any of the clubs above us would have been trying to sign we need to change our mindset and stop buying fucking lottery tickets when it comes to appointing our manager.

A proven top-class manager who has won trophies of substance and who will cost us at least £10mill a year and who the teams above us would be glad to have in their dugout, this will rule out the duds that are being touted here.

To note even then we are not guaranteed success but we wont change the mindset that has plagued this club for decades (little old Everton) without bringing in winners.

Tony Everan
68 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:54:44
Big Sam won't be fired.

Mr Moshiri will let him go with dignity (and a few millions) after the season ends. Hopefully then there will be an already procured and seamless transition to Fonseca, Silva, Howe or whoever it is.

Everyone's happy.

Jeff Spiers
69 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:57:56
Stop press!!!! Is it true we are after Jack Wheelchair and Jone? Looks like Allardyce is here long term FFS!!!
Darren Hind
70 Posted 14/03/2018 at 15:57:58
David Barks,

Spot on.

We can't go on employing English managers like, Koeman, Martinez, Moyes and Smith....br>

Jim Hardin
71 Posted 14/03/2018 at 16:00:55
For those wondering if Dyche could handle the Everton job, uhmm, look up the freaking table at where he is. Wins more with less money. Even if having funds is new to him at Everton, it would be unlikely that he would forget how to manage in the Premier League and do worse than he is with Burnley.

BTW, Burnley were relegated the last time because of no funds. They spent supposedly less than £5 million total in player acquisitions (not net). Vokes, the other half of the strike partnership that got them promoted was injured that season until January, and his absence killed the offense, not just because of his goals scored, but his assists, and his, to borrow a hockey term, second assists. Burnley did not get blown out of games, they failed to score goals that season.

For those suggesting Howe and Dyche are not good enough because of the teams they manage, I can only shake my head in astonishment at the comment. They are not old managers who have established a proven level to gauge them at yet. Is there something in the Premier League where managers take a test, and based upon that test, they are then paired for life to a club an the level of that club? Where did Sir Alec Ferguson manage before Man Utd? Simeone before Atletico? Klopp before Dortmund? Until a manager fails at a certain level how can his level of aptitude be judged fairly?

If we are looking outside Dyche or Howe then why not make a run at "Tata" Martino. Pretty sure his qualifications are big enough for Everton.

David Barks
72 Posted 14/03/2018 at 16:05:57
Darren,

Nice try, buddy, but I never said they were English and you know that I didn't. I said we have to look outside of England. As you will know and I noted, those managers came from English clubs. Come on now, try better next time.

Lawrence Green
73 Posted 14/03/2018 at 16:18:04
Might not be the total revolution that many of us want at Goodison, as David Prentice in the Echo, says that Elstone will probably leave for the Rugby League job, but adds that rumours of Bill Kenwright leaving are incorrect.
Brian Murray
74 Posted 14/03/2018 at 16:22:22
That's it, Bill. You hang about another year or so to make sure we stay at your level with no one to stop you. Nil satis... joke of a motto.
Pete Clarke
75 Posted 14/03/2018 at 16:32:53
All of the trophies generally go to those that spend the biggest. I don't even know if you need to be a great manager to win things with squads such as Chelsea and Man City but it leaves very little chance for anyone else (apart from the Leicester freak).

I thought we had the best manager in the world that day at Goodison when Moyes was giving it to Alex Ferguson on the touchline but that turned out to be his highlight.

I thought we had the best again when Martinez arrived with a smile and sense of feeling for our club plus some very nice attacking football. Pity he could not organise his defence!

We actually had the best manager in the business but he decided to try his hand in Spain. He ended up at the wrong destination there though.

Look at the so-called “Special One” getting stick from the Mancs because he prefers defence over attacking football and he has the players to do both.

Not one of the managers being mentioned with us are proven winners so we are hopefully going to get one of the up and coming managers who is hungry for success and has a good tactical football brain.

Who we end up with next will tell us a lot about our owner. I have my doubts about him now but if Allardyce is still here after we reach safety then I will be very concerned for our future. It would be better to see the season out managerless than have this fraudster in our dugout.

Darren Hind
76 Posted 14/03/2018 at 16:59:48
David,

You said, we didn't want another Premier League retread, from a poor club. Martinez had 3-4 years in the Premier League, Koeman had less than two. That's it . .Moyes had none neither did Smith. Hardly a habit.

Of all the reasons to discount a manager, being English is just about the daftest. I know a handful of foreign manager have come over here and been successful, but they have generally done it because they have been backed enough to be able to pay the best players in the world the best wages. We cant do that.

I would make you out a list of the number of failed foreign managers, only I don't think the thread would still be alive when I finished.

I want the best manager, I don't care where he is from, I don't see the logic of ruling out managers because they have Premier League experience, especially the young up and coming ones who could yet turn out to be top notch if given the chance.

Klopp, Conte, Wenger, Jose and Pochettino all fit your criteria. They have all either inherited or been able to acquire some of the greatest players on the planet... How many of them will be asking their clubs to extend the size of their trophy cabinets at the end of the season?

You are as good as your last season with these big clubs, but if it was up to you, the up-and-coming English managers wouldn't even get their first.

Nicholas Ryan
77 Posted 14/03/2018 at 17:03:39
Silva: Yes. Fonseca: Yes... Howe: Yes.

Basically it's ABS – 'Anyone But Sam'!!

John G Davies
78 Posted 14/03/2018 at 17:05:15
Peter Clarke,

Fonseca won the treble last season.
And won trophies in Portugal.

The best manager in Europe had this to say about him:

Guardiola personally vouches for Everton manager candidate
Brent Stephens
80 Posted 14/03/2018 at 17:41:12
I'd prefer not to sign a young up-and-coming manager who could yet turn out to be top notch if given the chance. I'd prefer the reduced risk of somebody who has already "come" (excuse the expression) and is already top notch.

But the problem is obviously being able to attract the latter type, especially with us currently in such a parlous state and with such a questionable squad. My guess is the club won't be reading these threads and will make their own judgments. I'll sit back and wait for concrete news of developments.

Paul Welsby
81 Posted 14/03/2018 at 17:46:55
Jim Hardin, his teams still plays shit football, and they win fuck all to boot. Burnley are above us granted, but that's not hard, is it, Jim? Also, Jim, why should we again be that team who take a chance on a manager with no experience in winning trophies, handling the better players you have to have to achieve this. Also no experience what so ever in European football?

I am sick of waiting to see if it works, 23 years and counting! For some of you supporters on here it's just not long enough? Well I take my hat off to you all. Because you all have a lot more patience than me. I have had enough!

If Moshiri is true to his word and he wants us in the Champions League, winning trophies – I for one can't understand how any of you think Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche are capable of achieving this or for that matter wanting to wait to see if they are? Talk about glutten for punishment!

Why wouldn't you prefer for are owner to break the bank for a more experienced manager who has won trophies and managed in Europe? If not, I just don't see your logic? If you would rather Moshiri go down the road of a more experienced manager, why are people on here putting there names forward in the first place? If these are the two managers you want at Everton, then I despair.

Let's say we hire either one, what do we do? Give them one or two maybe three seasons? That's if results are going well? If not back to square one again???

Now I know a proven trophy winner with experience of European football isn't guaranteed to bring success but I think it's high fucking time we tried? It has been failure upon failure but then that's all people have been used to for 23 years? Failure is like a disease running through the club and it needs to be eradicated asap, not waiting to see if it happens again and again. Haven't you all had enough yet???

Dermot Byrne
82 Posted 14/03/2018 at 17:56:54
On strike now after burning my hand.
Paul Welsby
83 Posted 14/03/2018 at 17:59:24
I will just add. As Evertonians we should be demanding the best manager we can get, not taking a chance on another fucking maybe, with experience in fighting relegation or someone's sole goal is to get to 40 points then let's see what happens after that??? Been there, done it... fucking sick of it, aren't you?
John Daley
84 Posted 14/03/2018 at 18:11:14
In my opinion, the club were on the right track when they were sniffing around Ralf Rangnick a few years back.

Yet, now firmly settled in his role as sporting director at RB Leipzig and reportedly not interested in returning to the hot seat for anybody. It is the manager...and right-hand Ralph... who works alongside him I would be looking to tempt to the Premier League: Ralph Hasenhüttl (of course, if it were up to me, and even remotely possible to take the pair, I would throw everything at trying to make that happen and have Walsh's Edward Woodward looking arse wanged into a giant Wicker Man for the millions the rotund 'recruitment maestro' has managed to waste since he rolled through the door, after finishing doing rapturous laps of Leicester while loudly roaring through a megaphone "Me, not Ranieri").

Hasenhüttl perfected the whole 'punching above his weight' priming for a plum job at unfashionable Unterhaching, VfR Aalen and FC Ingolstadt, progressing each along the way. His three years at Ingolstadt saw him take a team with it's testes tethered to the foot of the second tier, lead them to promotion and leave their newly potent plums swinging midtable in their maiden Bundesliga season.

At an unpopular, newly promoted, club that attracted more gozz from your average German than a lippy lass in the next lane to Gary Neville's co-gobshite, he demonstrated he can shoulder increased pressure, whilst fostering a 'them and us' team spirit, spending (comparative) new found wealth wisely on nascent young talent, and forging them into fast paced, aggressive, attacking team.

In his first season, RB Leipzig leapt above more established names like Borussia Dortmund, Bayer Leverkusen, Schalke and Borussia Mönchengladbach to surprise everybody and finish second behind Bayern Munich.

Second season syndrome was widely expected to strike, but despite stuttering on occasion, a side with an average age of 22 are still fighting it out with the European chasing pack, playing attractive, progressive football, despite a change of system mid season following claims they had been well and truly 'sussed out'.

Once more pissing in the face of Premier League experience, the other manager I've long thought it would be well worth a Premier League club taking a punt on is Marcelo Gallardo. The little man, referred to as 'Napoleon' by fans of River Plate, has everything in his locker to end up at one of the big European sides one day, despite currently enduring the most ball bustingly difficult season of his managerial career.

Then again, I suppose it's incredibly easy to throw names into the hat, when the onus isn't on you to make anything happen and you have nothing more at stake than tearing your hair out and shouting "nob'ead" multiple times on a match day.

David Barks
85 Posted 14/03/2018 at 18:17:31
Darren,

I fear the thickness of Allarpdyce's skull is starting to spread to you. Try this again, I clearly did not say no English managers. I'll repeat it again, I did not say no English managers. I very clearly said I do not want another Premier League retread and I went on to name Martinez (not English), Koeman (not English) as examples. I don't care what nationality the manager is, but I do want a manager that comes with a track record of winning. That is the mentality that needs to be I jeered into this club in a massive way.

Guardiola was told by all those brilliant pundits and former premier league managers that his style would never work in the physical premier league. He shut them up. Klopp has been told repeatedly that he must abandon his style of football and learn from the defensive minded previous Premier League managers. He's not listening and along with City is now the only English club to make the last 8 of the Champions League while restoring Liverpool's place in the Champions League each season. When he took over they were below us in the table – remember that.

So, again, if we want to be competing with those clubs then we must stop doing what they are not, and that is looking for a bargain value manager that shows “promise” from a lesser club in the premier league. Someone else said it here, that is the lottery approach, hoping we get the winning ticket the next time. Enough of that. United tried that approach with Moyes and quickly cut bait and moved away. Man City did that at first with Hughes and it was a failure, only for Stoke to try the same thing with him and it failed as well.

These same managers just continue to move from club to club, except not at the winning clubs. You talk about being able to name all the foreign managers that have failed – name me the last English manager to have won anything of note, league or Europe. Maybe Howe will turn out to be a brilliant manager. I just don't want to be the club to continue to gamble that it will happen here. I want proven success for once.

John G Davies
86 Posted 14/03/2018 at 18:39:40
I will take Peps word on Fonseca.

https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.com/2017/11/28/16709868/pep-guardiola-paulo-fonseca-manchester-city-shakhtar-champions-league-everton-manager-news-rumours

Paul Welsby
87 Posted 14/03/2018 at 19:09:24
David Barks, I think we are on the same page wanting a proven manager regardless of what country they are from? It was exactly what you said in your post. I think others are prepared to go for that up-and-coming manager who may or maybe not be a success? Either way who really know's which way is going to be right?

I think we are just tired of waiting and we have been down that road which clearly never worked. Other supporters just haven't had enough of abject failure as you can see with 6% wanting this useless twat in charge now given more time? I know it's unbelievable isn't it? But we have been starved of any success so I think people's heads have just fell off?

Andy Crooks
88 Posted 14/03/2018 at 19:34:49
I don't see the point in dwelling on Howe's record against the top six. He is effectively the manager of a league two club that he has dragged to and kept in the Premier league. They have crowds of roughly three men and a dog. He has done this with bold and innovative football.

Of course the record of any coach can have holes picked in but what he has achieved is, in my view remarkable. I think he is on his way to the top and I would welcome his appointment with much more enthusiasm than I did Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce.

Someone needs to be given time at our club. I would like it to be Eddie Howe.

Darren Hind
89 Posted 14/03/2018 at 19:39:31
David

Its not the thickness of Alardyces skull you need to concern yourself with, its the density of yours.

Unless you are going to give us a list of the English names mentioned that are operating outside the Premier League, you ARE talking about English managers. Your just hiding them amongst other premier league managers

Of course you could prove me wrong by Naming the English managers you are NOT ruling out? but of course you wont be able to do that.

The trouble you have here is you want to put younger managers like Howe in the same box as the hoofball merchants who have stolen a living in the Premier League for over a decade, but your notion is tired and dated. Howe does not belong in the same bracket as people like Pulis, Hughes, Moyes Allardyce, Pardew and you show your ignorance by trying to put him there. He's already achieved more than they have playing a sharper more expansive game. He's a different breed, but your foolish preconception prevents you from seeing it.

All these managers you imagine were lining up to tell Pep Guardiola he couldn't succeed in the Premier League with his style? Why don't you name them? There's a challenge for you.

The simple fact is, he is a brilliant coach and he works for people who have bottomless pockets. He was always going to succeed... but understand this; His success merely ensures that all those foreign managers you so desire will be failures too:

Wenger – Lost it
Klopp – come back when he wins a trophy
Mourinho – crying like a baby because there is a bigger dog in town and he can't compete.
Conte – bewildered
Pochettino – Let's see how well he does without the goal machine he inherited.

Other foreign managers working in the Premier League? – don't make me laugh! That's a whole lot of "superstar" manager, getting paid a staggering amount of money, to spend billions on players in order to achieved the sum total of fuck all...

And you think we can dismiss people like Howe? I would be amazed if Arsenal have ruled him out.



John G Davies
90 Posted 14/03/2018 at 20:05:32
Eddie Howe will not get the Arsenal job. Not a chance.

Nationality no guarantee of success or failure. Saying that, the last English manager to win the league is?

David Barks
91 Posted 14/03/2018 at 20:08:13
Darren,

I'm not playing your rope a dope game. You are the only one talking about a manager's nationality. I do not care what nationality they are, I only want the next manager to be a proven winner that has won trophies. That's my criteria that I am once again clearly stating.

Howe might end up being good; right now, he has achieved nothing. If he goes somewhere else and has more success, maybe a Cup final or two, at least one game in Europe, maybe then I'd be more interested. Him being English has nothing to do with it, period.

The managers you named to attempt to make some sort of point that those foreign managers aren't successful is just laughable though. Conte, won the league last year in his first season. Guardiola wins the league in his second season. Klopp, won multiple titles in Germany, breaking up Bayern's strangle hold and then restoring Liverpool from below us in the table to the last 8 of the Champions League.

So again, nationality, I don't give a good God damn. I want someone with a track record of winning trophies and for that mentality to be brought to Everton. It really is that simple for me, Darren.

Darren Hind
92 Posted 14/03/2018 at 20:34:59
You are avoiding several issues here David.

By ruling out current premier league managers, You are ruling out young English talent.

The top teams of this country are all foreign-owned and they all employ foreign managers. That is why the foreign manager is more successful. They get the best players. Bt the fact that Klopp and Pochettino and countless others have not won anything proves there are no guaranties... and if there are no guaranties, with foreign managers why would you want to rule out the home grown?

I don't rule out foreign managers. I too like the look of JD's suggestion, his achievements are very similar to Howe's – although, for me, not quite as impressive

Paul Welsby
93 Posted 14/03/2018 at 20:45:20
Darren Hind, we have had this debate about Eddie Howe on the "Arsenal and Everton fight it out for Arteta" thread. I know from that little debate we had you are passionate about Eddie's credentials.

Just one thing I want to say! If you think Arsenal football club are going to hire your main man Eddie your passion is clouding your judgement? They won't even give him an interview, so prepare to be amazed,Darren!

For starters, their board won't go for a manager who has no proven record of managing a club in the top 7! They have ambitions of getting back into the Champions League! Also he has no experience of managing regular international football players? There squad is full of internationals and it doesn't matter if we don't think they're any good, they think they are?

So you think Eddie Howe can manage players of Ozil's, Aubameyang, Lacazette calibre to name but a few of them, then I'm afraid you are smoking some serious shit? They won't listen to a manager of Eddie's standing in the game!

You can have passion and believe it true but for it to cloud your judgement to the point you will say anything to back it up is ridiculous.

I read your post earlier saying a lot of the paper's were reporting Arsenal are interested in Eddie Howe and we need to move first and pay Bournemouth what they want??? Really??? I couldn't stop laughing all day! You would think Eddie had won a shed load of trophies and done really well in the Premier League and Champions League? Pay them what they want are you sure Darren???? I had to read it twice just to make sure I hadn't read it wrong.

You are coming across as a bit frantic in trying to prove your belief Eddie is the man! Trying to convince us that we shouldn't be breaking the bank for the best proven trophy winner with experience of European football and just pay Bournemouth what they want??? I keep repeating that sentence because, the more I do, the more ridiculous it sounds!

Good luck with the Eddie for Arsenal shout! If Moshiri is to be believed that he wants us in the Champions League and winning trophies good luck with that to!

David Barks
94 Posted 14/03/2018 at 20:52:35
Darren,

Where is it in the Everton charter that we must be the club to bring through young English managers? Again, I don't care about nationality nor did I say they must have had success in England. I want a manager that has won things at his previous stops.

Klopp's career didn't just start in England. He's had a lot of success in Germany and sadly has been building a hell of a team across the park. Pochetino hasn't spent big at all but has turned them into a Champions League club. Foreign or not has nothing to do with why the top clubs employ the managers they do. They hire those managers because they are the best.

You seem to be implying that the fact that the owners are foreign to England is the criteria for them hiring foreign managers. That is simply false. They hire the best managers regardless of nationality and we should do the same if we want to become one of them.

Brian Harrison
95 Posted 14/03/2018 at 21:42:20
All this club have ever done is appoint managers that have never won anything except maybe promotion from the lower leagues. Its always "let's give him a go, he has done well on limited funds", but it nearly always ends in failure obviously Kendall being the exception.

Darren you have to go back to Howard Wilkinson for the last Englishman to win the league in the top division. The reason that the very top clubs appoint foreign coaches is because by and large they are better than their English counter parts. Conte won the Italian league I think a few times and has already won the Premier League. Guardiola not only has won the league in different countries he also holds the record as the manager with most consecutive wins in the Spanish,German and English leagues. Wenger although past his best has won leagues and FA Cups. Mourhino again Champions League winner, as well as Premier League winner.

So I don't care what colour they are what nationality they are, I just want someone who has a proven track record of winning things. Not for us to risk another punt on someone who apart from promotion has won nothing. And for those who argue the young English managers don't get a chance in the Premier League. Then go abroad and manage there, I am sure Howe would be welcomed in Portugal were Mourhino, Fonseca and Silva started, or maybe the Italian league were Conte started. These guys apart from Guardiola started with unfashionable clubs and proved their success, that's why Premier League clubs appoint them.

Ian Hollingworth
96 Posted 14/03/2018 at 22:12:20
Howe would be a gamble. Yes he has done a good job at Bournemouth but that is all it is, a fairly good job. He moved to Burnley and didn't do too much and ended up moving back to Bournemouth and maybe he fits them and is comfortable there. No guarantees he could handle a bigger club/ challenge.

Everton need to aim big if we seriously want to challenge for trophies again. Moshiri is only here for the stadium contracts and Bill is a clown so I don't hold out much hope for the future and expect a B-list, or more likely, a C-list appointment.

Brian Wilkinson
97 Posted 14/03/2018 at 22:52:17
Brian@95, you cannot seriously be classing Alex Ferguson as a foreigner because he came from Scotland, in regards to English teams appointing foreign coaches.
Brian Wilkinson
98 Posted 14/03/2018 at 23:00:19
For what it's worth, I have a feeling we will miss out on Fonseca and can see no further than us appointing Silva.
Trevor Peers
99 Posted 14/03/2018 at 23:14:00
I agree with you Brian about Fonseca, we may miss out, his stock will be high after a good run in the Champions League.

However there could be a merry go round of changes amongst Europe's elite clubs and who knows which managers may become available in the summer, it could very interesting from our point of view.

Hopefully Silva may not be the only or best option available.

John Daley
100 Posted 14/03/2018 at 23:25:09
Three promotions to your name before hitting 40 and keeping a club with the lowest turnover comfortable in the Premier League can't just be haughtily written off, summed up as nothing more than a "fairly good" fist, or painted as a piss-weak watered-down version of real managerial success.

Howe's achievements at Bournemouth are deserving of huge praise and the decisive, dogged, manner in which he went about it, the punter-pleasing playing style he promotes and the practice of regularly over-performing on a meagre budget, are all relevant factors to be taken into consideration when attempting to run the rule over how he might measure up elsewhere.

If a track record of trophies (regardless of where or how they were won) was all it ever took to reliably target the right man, then Walter Smith wouldn't have had the words "dour twat" reverberating around his ear hole so damn much.

Pochettino is repeatedly mentioned on these pages as the perfect model, yet has never won a bean as a manager. In fact, he left Espanyol rooted rock-bottom of the league when he was binned off back then. Southampton saw something in the man and his methods that led them to believe he could prove a successful appointment, but it sure as shit wasn't a previously scooped pot. Same story with the decision makers at Spurs who were confident enough to move for him at a time when an 8th place finish took pride of place on his CV.

There's a lot more to weigh up than simply noting "he's won something somewhere else" and "he's not won a sausage". Stick "..spunked absolutely loads on it, like and the lowest they've finished under any of the last 14 managers is runner up" after the first, and "...don't give a shit if he performed miracles on a shoestring" after the second, and the picture of prospective future success under different circumstances, in completely different surroundings, with a different level of coin to call on, becomes slightly less clear.

The one thing that would plant a doubt in my mind about Howe succeeding elsewhere would be his stumble at Burnley, when he opted to move on and 'up' from Bournemouth first time round (although I'm pretty sure I remember reading about a bereavement hitting him particularly hard and prompting a move back to be closer to his family at that time?).

Jerome Shields
101 Posted 14/03/2018 at 23:52:45
I don't think Silva is good enough. Fonseca is good enough, but will he be interested in Everton, given the squad we have and the difficulty of getting them to play football at the technical level he would require with pace and movement.

What Manager is going to have the stomach for a total overhall of the squad? More importantly has Moshiri the stomach for the amount of losses he will have accept as a loss to rectify the situation.

But all this is speculation, because Allardyce is in place. He is renegotiating his contract and talking about being a Everton next season.

Pete Clarke
102 Posted 14/03/2018 at 00:00:39
It's quite simple. We don't have anything to attract a top proven manager or players for that matter. The only reason any proven manager would come would be megabucks and everyone is offering that these days.

Let's just say Morinho came to Everton. Would he be a success? We would need to spend a billion pounds to get the players in to challenge as we are that far off the elite and Moshiri is not up there with the Arabs and Russians. We just need to start the process by kicking Allardyce out.

Karl Meighan
103 Posted 15/03/2018 at 05:07:46
What's all this "give a new man time with the squad"? It's obvious (maybe five players apart) that squad will swim around from 7th to 17th regardless of who is in charge.

Allardyce would not have been my choice but, after two signings only – and they're two of the players I would keep after half a season – I would give him a full pre-season and see how we start next season... just like I would whoever was in charge.

Darren Hind
104 Posted 15/03/2018 at 08:02:05
Paul Welsby,

At least David was putting up some good points to make for interesting debate. You, my friend, seem to want to drag the debate to a level you feel comfortable with.

"I know from what little debate we had you are passionate about Eddie's credentials" – Wrong. Anybody who wants to debate with me will know my first choice as Everton manager is already at the club. I do recognise Howe's monumental achievements and, given the possibilities of some of the names being mentioned, I also recognise the abject stupidity of dismissing him as a contender.

You should also give your claims about Arsenal a little thought too. Their ideas of appointing a manager are not quite as simplistic as yours. Rioch hardly pulled up trees and although Wenger was able to land a title with Monaco, if memory serves me right, he was able to bring in players like Hately, Hoddle and World player of the year, Wear.... let's not forget, he was relegated with Nancy and was sacked by Monaco after finishing 16th/17th. Many Arsenal fans hadn't even heard of him – which kinda blows your theory about Arsenal only employing people with glossy CVs right out of the window...

Your simplistic argument takes an even more naïve turn when you "claim" a manager who hasn't won a major trophy can't manage superstars (how very quaint). History kicks that argument out of the window, especially when you take into consideration that they all (without exception) had to start somewhere. It's the individual character which counts. A manager's CV means nothing to your modern player – ask Ronald Koeman.

Lyndon is right in my view. We should strike while the iron's hot and, if Howe is to be Moshiri's man, then we should offer Bournemouth what they want. Even If he doesn't get approached by Arsenal, you can be very, very sure he will be courted by other clubs. It may amuse you to read that all those media outlets reported Arsenal's interest in Howe, but it's an incontestable fact and, by "laughing all day" at incontestable facts, you do your point (whatever it is) no good at all.

There are some very strong and compelling arguments on this thread, yours most definitely isn't one of them. While David Barks and others explain their views (and some carry a lot of merit), he is also prepared to admit that Howe may well turn out to be top notch and by walking past him we may well be making a mistake.

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You have your heart set on an exotic name, somebody you can intelligently label El Lionheart or something, as opposed to Hippo Head, because that's the way to debate and it's the only way forward... isn't it?

John G Davies
105 Posted 15/03/2018 at 08:48:34
Pot calling the kettle here. Darren, you insult on a regular basis, that in turn encourages posters to respond in a similar fashion.

Debate is great, sadly it deteriorates at times. We should all, myself included, try to avoid it.

Tony Abrahams
106 Posted 15/03/2018 at 09:02:27
Good points off John Daley, because as he says, Howe, has done a fantastic job, with Bournemouth. I was on holiday, last June, and bumped into Dan Gosling. My son thought I was gonna give him loads, but how could I do that to the only Everton player, I have ever seen score a last minute winner against Liverpool?

I was asking him was he enjoying the rest, and he told me he couldn't wait to get back to work. You have got a Good manager, it must be enjoyable playing for him I said? It's the reason I can't wait to get back, was Gosling' reply.

He went on to say that every day is not only different, but also very enjoyable, and he thought Eddie, was going to manage England one day. Fuckin hell Dan, that's not much of a recommendation, I said with a smile, he realized what he'd said, shrugged his shoulders, and said you know what I mean though!

So I'd take Howe, but Fonseca, is also intriguing, along with Jay Woods shout for Cotese, which was the most insightful post I've read on ToffeeWeb for ages. Darren, knows his managers, or at least he knows his Everton managers, but I'd definitely sooner have his second choice over his first!

Len Hawkins
107 Posted 15/03/2018 at 09:36:34
Catterick, Shankly, Mee, Greenwood, Nicholson, Busby, Mercer, Revie, Cullis,

Anyone with a slight interest in football could reel off the names of the Top teams managers they were there for years, now you'd have a job, unless you were Statto, to name the number of managers in the last season so fast has the momentum of the merry-go-round built up. Whoever comes in I hope they are not slaughtered after a handful of games as is the norm NOW even at a once great club like Everton. I didn't want Allardyce and although I thought he should be given a chance to impose his methods I now have been sucked into the wind of change.

I honestly don't know who could do the job to OUR satisfaction.

David Graves
108 Posted 15/03/2018 at 10:14:17
John, his tenure at Burnley is often cited as a major failing but I believe that his mum died suddenly and he chose to move back to Bournemouth to be with his family.

I think his outstanding success with Bournemouth since then is the most important thing to consider and I'd be delighted if we appointed him.

Trevor Peers
109 Posted 15/03/2018 at 10:27:19
Never heard of any interest from Everton in Eddie Howe so he's a non – starter in my book.

He might be under consideration if Kenwright was still doing the hiring and firing, but not Moshiri's cup of tea at all.

Brian Harrison
110 Posted 15/03/2018 at 10:28:47
I have said before that Howe for me is exactly the same as when we appointed Mike Walker. A manager whose team was playing really attractive football on limited resources, and unlike Howe Walker had Norwich playing in Europe and I think if my memory is correct they beat Inter Milan on their journey.

But managing Norwich and then managing Everton was a different ball game completely. When you manage a club like Norwich or Bournemouth there is not a lot of pressure on you, but come to a club like Everton and the expectations are a lot higher. And with that comes the pressure and that is something that can crush a manager as it did for Walker.

Michael Lynch
111 Posted 15/03/2018 at 10:51:24
Klopp, Pochettino, Pep - what do their teams have in common? Great players.

Out of all the names being bandied about, I actually don't give a flying fuck who we bring in as manager – I have no idea whether they'll be successful or not. Whoever comes in, it will be about the players they buy, and how they utilise the players we already have.

So, if anything, we should be looking at the ability of a manager to put together a great team on an Everton-level budget. I don't study these things enough to make a suggestion, but I'm sure someone does. Who has put together successful teams themselves, on a regular basis? That's our man.

Keith Dempsey
112 Posted 15/03/2018 at 11:11:50
Fed up with all the opinions, we are where we are and very few seem to have a solution. Let's just enjoy being Evertonians and look forward knowing sometime we will beat our neighbours. How long before somebody suggests we go after Zinedine Zidane?
Nicholas Ryan
113 Posted 15/03/2018 at 11:31:10
The late, and much lamented, Stephen Hawking, found that, at the 'far end' of every vast Black Hole, is a tiny thing called a 'singularity'.

It seems to me that anyone who thinks that Eddie Howe is in any way comparable to Mike Walker must be living in a singularity!!

Karen Mason
114 Posted 15/03/2018 at 12:02:44
It's clear from reading all the posts that we all value different things about a Manager, and all opinions have their merit – apart from those saying that Allardyce deserves a chance to stay. Their argument has no merit on any grounds IMO.

My personal preference, in terms of values, is somebody like the young Arsene Wenger, who rarely spent money on players who were 'the finished product', but brought in players with the right attributes then made them into world class players. Thierry Henry was not a great player when he brought him in, he simply had the attributes. Neither was Van Persie, Fabregas, Clichy, Ashley Cole, Viera, etc.

I would like a Manager who can build a team and coach players to become a great team, playing open attacking football while doing it. (Not a lot to ask, I know!!) What I value least in a Manager is the need to just buy success – like Mourinho. I have never seen a player improve under his management. Rather he buys them already great then slowly detracts from their ability over time, which is why he is never at a club for any real length of time and generally leaves them in a worse condition.

I don't think it is important that our next manager has experience of the Premier League, as good managers will make it happen without it. Benitez (while at Liverpool), Guardiola, Pochettino, Klopp, Conte, have all either won something with their Premier League club, or improved the clubs or teams they have been at to compete at Champions League standard. Yes, in some cases by spending big, but in other cases by a combination of spending and great coaching.

In these days of player power, it does have to be somebody that the players respect, but then, if you don't have a team of prima donnas, hopefully, that would not be a problem. So of the realistic choices out there, it would be Fonseca for me, because he appears to have the attributes I admire in a Manager.

Pete Clarke
115 Posted 15/03/2018 at 12:48:37
I will put my hand up and say I wanted Kendall out. How many others wanted him out? How many of us wanted Colin Harvey to take over?

There are no guarantees in this game apart from maybe Pep so who is to say that we might not unearth a gem in Eddie Howe, Silva or Fonseca. Who is to say that they will all fail??

Somebody is going to get appointed and we can only hope they do a good job. This club needs a lot of rebuilding and although the manager is Number 1, we need to get rid of a lot of dead wood and bring in fresh faces in all departments.

Lawrence Green
116 Posted 15/03/2018 at 13:01:19
Liam Rosenior writing in the Guardian, sums up what many fans want to see if their team can't have absolute success they want to be entertained. Evertonians have a long tradition of seeking expansive football with the occasional pragmatic approach when it's required e.g. Bayern Munich first leg of ECWC Semi-final.

Whilst I agree with Liam, that Guardiola has raised the bar, many Evertonians have always had an eye on technical ability and style allied to a solid centre in their teams. In 1975 Everton almost won the league under Billy Bingham with a style that was vastly different to that which had seen Everton crowned champions five years earlier. The supporters enjoyed the positive results in 1974-75 but not necessarily the methods employed to achieve those results.

It will be difficult for the next Everton manager to play expansive football whilst achieving positive results, but it's not an impossible dream and should always be the target of any person who manages Everton FC.

Ian Hollingworth
117 Posted 15/03/2018 at 13:17:17
It might all come down to what do we actually want?

We are a C-list club in terms of how we are run. We do not have anywhere near enough quality in the squad.

We are happy to promote names like Howe, Silva etc but once appointed we will expect them to challenge with all the obstacles already in place.

Our whole club ethos is sadly built around accepting average to below average. Is that our place in modern football?

Steve Barr
118 Posted 15/03/2018 at 13:41:35
I agree that Guardiola's Man City is "winning in style" and that in itself is putting pressure on other managers to do the same. I most certainly expect Everton and others to win in style, or at least compete in style, even though we know that most will not win anything unless they have the financial clout the likes of City have.

I believe most fans would prefer their teams to play with style. That should be a must for teams with access to serious finances and frankly have no sympathy for the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea, that clearly have the finances but have appointed negative/defensive managers. Don't understand that thinking at all, other than short term-ism.

It's easier to "win in style" when you have the financial backing to buy the world's best players in just about every position so I'm not prepared to go over the top in praising the likes of Guardiola. With the money he's had to throw at players it's the very least a fan should expect.

Everton has, at least recently, had access to sufficient finances but has failed miserably to appoint a manager with a track record in playing with style, never mind winning in style.

As far as Everton is concerned we must now strike while the iron is hot. The next managerial appointment has to be the right man. The board has failed to appoint the right man for some years now. They must put that right this time.

John Keating
119 Posted 15/03/2018 at 13:50:29
There are no guarantees in life apart from death and that if a manager doesn't have instant success then he's shite and needs sacking.

Regardless of who comes in, we have to give him time. However, saying that, what happens if, although he has a plan, we find ourselves in a difficult situation after Christmas of his first season?

Everyone has different opinions and in some people's eyes, if we got Guardiola, there'd still be some who'd give it large before he stepped through the door.

John Pierce
121 Posted 15/03/2018 at 14:56:46
For me it's all about progress, tangible and clear. If a manager in today's climate cannot achieve that then he is on borrowed time. For those preaching time well it doesn't exist, 19months is your average premier league manager's tenure.

Perversely the more clear progress you make the more time I believe people will give you when things go awry.

The last three full time clowns either stopped progressing or didn't show any at all.

Koeman and Allardyce are arch pragmatist and when results go against you, well you have nothing. So what you've built is hollow and brittle.

Martinez got eons comparatively because he had built something more lasting, although deeply flawed. Even at the bitter end he still had the trying to play football.

The next guy needs to demonstrate that progress, show he can improve the players he has young & old, and deal with the fact Everton's expectations are a minimum of 7th and European football. That is to be embraced not excused or watered down.

The arguments that rage about a manager beefing in, and ‘its not his team' or give him at least two windows are rubbish.

They live and work in the crucible of top level football and they have to be able to do it from the get go, thats the market we have created for ourselves.

Harsh harsh times.

Karl Meighan
123 Posted 15/03/2018 at 15:41:20
But Allardyce hasn't had the 19 months average has he, and do you honestly think that any manager in world football could turn that rabble we call a squad into a team that is capable of challenging? Results should and probably will improve a little if Baines and Coleman can stay fit.

Football is a results based business, John, but they first have to be given a chance and taking over any Club after another manager is sacked and mid season is a very very difficult job.

Pete Clarke
125 Posted 15/03/2018 at 16:23:48
I simply refuse to give Allardyce any credit whatsoever for saving us. It really proves how shit the Premier League is because the trash we have witnessed this season from our team still has us sitting tenth.

Admittedly, now that we have a semblance of balance we look slightly better but I an injury hit Crystal Palace team and a very poor Brighton are not what we should be getting excited about beating.

I will definitely give him credit if we somehow beat Liverpool or Man City though!! I'm off to the doctors just for thinking that!

John Pierce
126 Posted 15/03/2018 at 16:37:10
Sorry Karl, can't agree. I understand your points but progress for me becomes before results. If Allardyce had made the progress then the results would come. You can only stand on results for so long, without progress and performance you have nothing.

The squad are not a rabble, despite cries to the contrary. Sure there are some bad apples but the talent is there, it is a more attacking squad than given credit for. So for the last two idiots to set them up like some sort of phalanx is just plain stupid.

They are inherently being asked to do something they are no programmed for.

As for Allardyce getting to 19 months, the average tenure, he is well below that standard and deserves nothing more.

If you want a more concrete demonstration of performance over results look no further than the premier league. With 13/14 clubs cut off from winning trophies fans are sick of pragmatism and the re-tread of god awful clowns like Koeman, Allardyce, Pardew, Hughes, Hodgson, Moyes, et al. They want flair and performance, panache and verve. In some cases, like West Brom, they will sacrifice their status to get it.

Time and style waits for no manager.

Steve Barr
127 Posted 15/03/2018 at 16:40:15
Karl,

Based on Allardyce's whole career in management he has a less than 50% winning record so I doubt he'll improve on that even if we give him 19 months. Nothing he has done in the time he has been with us has given me any hope or optimism that he'll change that record in future.

We should expect much more than that and I'm now in the camp that says we need a manager with a proven winning track record, and one that can get teams playing and winning in style to boot!

Steve Ferns
130 Posted 15/03/2018 at 17:21:13
Steve, it is much worse than you think.

Sam Allardyce has had a losing season in every season in the Premier League since 2007. That's 10 seasons (he did a winning season in 2011-12 in the Championship). In every season since 2007, he has lost more games than he has won, often by a long way.

50% is a very good win ratio. A decent one is usually around 42%. Allardyce's is 33%.

His record is won 6 drawn 4 lost 6 for us this season, again falling short of a winning season. Unsworth managed to win as many as he lost in the league. Add in Unsworth's other game as caretaker and you'll find his Premier League win ratio is actually 50% (Played 6 won 3 drawn 1 lost 2).

Moving on to Fonseca, he's hardly a Jonny-come-lately. He's a fantastic manager. He's proved that in the Champions League this season, and let's be honest, he's probably done too well to be a realistic target for us.

We are not able to "aim high", as I have said many times before, Moshiri aimed high in the Autumn. Simone clearly led us on, just as Giroud did, and we dithered hoping to land the big fish, and these two period resulted in a season that was a complete waste.

We need a manager in early, and that means being realistic. It means setting sights lower. If it was down to me, I'd be battering Fonseca's agents door down and trying to land him the second the Ukrainian season finishes. Any dithering on Fonseca's part would see me turn to Marco Silva.

Too many seem to dismiss him. He took a team no one in Portugal had ever heard of and won the Portuguese Second Division. Then he got them to 5th in the top division in his first season, then he improved them to 4th and had a campaign in European Football. This landed him a big move to Sporting, where he won silverware, and whilst 3rd in the league was hardly his greatest achievement, it was decent in the context of where Sporting was, and that they won the Portguese cup, their first trophy in a long time.

He then got sacked for ridiculous reasons, supposedly over not wearing the club suit, and off he went to Greece. He won the league in record style. So trophy number 2. He also impressed by beating Arsenal at the Emirates, and in the Champions League in general.

He really impressed me with hull, for they were dead and buried and he breathed life into them and gave them a fighting chance before they ran out of steam in the last couple of games. I still thought he had worked something that was just short of a miracle with them.

Watford was an amazing start. He became our number one target, and did his best to get the job, but then it fell apart. Watford blamed us for that. I was hoping that Silva would be given time and would show that he had the capabilities to turn things around.

Everything in his career has gone to plan. The big question mark for me was how would he cope when the going got tough. That question remains unanswered. The going got tough, and he bought the bullet before he could show what he could do.

Fonseca is 44, and Silva is 41. Both are supposedly young managers, but bear in mind they are both older than Kendall was when he won the League. It's a good age, they have experience and they have hunger and ambition.

Why I want Silva is that he is a top coach. He brings in a small team who will work closely with the players. He will work them on the training pitch in a way the players have not been worked since Martinez (in terms of attacking movement) or Moyes (in terms of defensive movement).

He comes from the school of thought that he needs the raw materials to build a side, and can coach them to the top. Forget the Koeman and Allardyce approach of 27- to 31-year-olds, this guy wants them young.

He will bring fresh ideas to the training ground, he will engage the players in a way no one has done since Martinez, and he will bring ambition and a winning mentality. There is a pragmatic streak that Martinez lacked, and he showed at Hull that he knows how to play different tactics for different teams. Hull surprised the big sides by attacking them, and showed a great rear-guard action and counter attacking in their great victory over the RS.

There's some Hull videos on YouTube where you can watch him in action in coaching and the Hull players raving about his methods. For me, he brings the attacking verve of Martinez and the ability to defend of Moyes. Though there is some doubt on the latter after the looking at the goals Watford were shipping at the end of his tenure. Prior to England, he had the reputation of a very good counter attacking manager, more in the Mourinho mould. Mourinho was a big fan, calling him "the Kid" when he first got the Hull job and talking him up at every opportunity.

I think this is a manager who can build a side and be here for the next 5 years plus, and could entrust our youth players to.

If ever there was a reason to get rid of Allardyce, then it's a peek at his plans for next season: Wilshere, Jones and Nzonzi, all older players who will command big fees and big wages. No thanks, get shut of Lardiola, and get one of the two Portguese in as quickly as possible.

Bill Gienapp
131 Posted 15/03/2018 at 17:50:41
Steve Ferns just re-sold me on Silva all over again.
Tony Abrahams
132 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:33:14
It's all contradictions Steve, because all three of those players that you would expect Allardyce, to bring in, are better than we have got in the same positions now?

The contradiction is we don't want this manager to stay but the two players that have already been recruited look much better than anything Koeman brought in?

I also enjoyed what you wrote about Silvia, Steve, and was wondering if you could write a similar post about Fonseca please, mate? I don't follow football like I used to, but something intrigues me about Fonseca, which is strange really, simply because I don't know that much about him.

John G Davies
133 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:34:19
I hope it's one of the Portuguese. Either one has the ability to rebuild this club.
Steve Barr
134 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:35:14
Steve, I must say that is a very well argued and reasoned pitch for Silva. I didn't have that detailed knowledge and insight into his past career but all things considered he would be worth a definite shout.

I was put on the spot yesterday by a buddy of mine when we were discussing this very topic.

He asked who I would replace Allardyce with and I was unable to answer to be honest. BTW this friend of mine was apprentice to Sam when he was captain of Huddersfield. Had both good and not so good things to say about him back in those days. He also played with Frank Worthington who was at Huddersfield then. Now there was a great character and player!

I wish you'd posted yesterday. I might have been able to regurgitate your reasoning and get some kudos!!

Tony Everan
135 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:39:39
Steve, I bet Southampton have approached him for the job. Promising him the earth. His agent will be commissioned to get an answer from Mr Moshiri to find out if Everton still want him. If Mr Moshiri says yes I think the deal for him to take over June 1st could be pencilled in this week.

For all the same reasons I think he is the best choice, young ambitious proven talented and really fancies the job. A free agent too and will hit the ground running June 1st which is massively important to next seasons fortunes.

I think if we go down the Fonseca route his agent will play us like a fiddle on route to Arsenal, AC Milan or wherever.

Paul Welsby
136 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:41:15
Steve Ferns, Silva had a load of injuries to deal with too, so maybe he could've turned it around? We will never know? I'm still a bit wary as it did fall apart pretty quickly. I also have a feeling Moshiri might've already brought him in if indeed he still wanted him?

Trying to get any clue who our owner wants is difficult. I just wish he would move quickly to get this plank currently in charge out of our club. For all we know, Steve, it could be he has said the job is his at the end of the season. I'm not 100% sure but I didn't he turn down a job recently?.

Brent Stephens
137 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:51:25
Steve (#130) – I'm sold! That's the strongest argument yet for any of the names so far touted.
John Daley
138 Posted 15/03/2018 at 18:51:49
"Everything in his career has gone to plan". 

Some statement to make that, Steve, when you're talking about a manager those last four jobs have lasted 12 months, 11 months, 5 months and 8 months, saw him be sacked twice, resign once for 'personal reasons', resign once after relegation and (reportedly) looking to jump ship to another club after only 12 games in charge in his last gig.

If that is everything proceeding 'to plan', I'd hate to see what happens when it all goes pear-shaped.

Jack Convery
139 Posted 15/03/2018 at 19:28:57
Simeone – offer him the earth and the players he picks won't be duds I can promise you. No up-and-coming managers – proven track record of building a competitive team in a competitive league with European football success too.

A no-brainer for me. Show him the money NOW!!! Now that's what I call a Manager.

Steve Ferns
140 Posted 15/03/2018 at 20:16:33
Tony Abrahams - I do not believe that Allrdyce is responsible for Tosun or Walcott. Walsh is definitely behind Tosun, particularly given Allardyce's contradicting comments on the player. I believe Allrdyce would have given Walcott the big thumbs up, but again, I don't think Allardyce has much say in transfer policy.

As for Fonseca - sure. I will give you a profile of him.

John Daley, Silva's career was one that went up and up and up. First he lead Estoril out of the Portguese second division (from nowhere) and then he took them to 5th, then 4th, then he went to Sporting and got 3rd. Then he finished top in Greece, so his record reads:

Season 1: 2012 - 2nd division Champions
Season 2: 2013 - 5th
Season 3: 2014 - 4th
Takes over Sporting
Season 4: 2015 - 3rd - and won Cup
Takes over olympiacos
Season 5: 2016 - Champions of Greece
takes a break and joins Hull in January
Season 6: 2017 - relegated with Hull
Takes over Watford
Season 7: 2018 - sacked by Watford

My point about everything going according to plan is how his career was getting better and better. He didn't have a rocky patch at Hull, he had mission impossible and just came up short.

So, the question is when the going gets tough what will happen. The answer was Watford sacked him. That for me leaves the question, could he have turned it round if given time? That's the only question mark over Silva for me.

As for his departures, Estoril to Sporting is a no brainer. He left Sporting in dubious circumstances. My Portguese friends all support Sporting, and they love him. They tell me the fans backed Silva over the board. He left Olympiacos for personal reasons which really translated to he wanted a top European job. Watford is the only real sacking on his record.

Chris Gould
141 Posted 15/03/2018 at 20:31:07
Steve,

That's simply not true. Allardyce had a bid in for Tosun when he was manager of Crystal Palace.

Also, Walcott spoke of his relationship with Allardyce being a reason for him coming here.

There's plenty to criticise Sam about, so really no need to make stuff up.

Tony Abrahams
142 Posted 15/03/2018 at 20:34:17
Thanks Steve, I will look forward to reading about Fonseca, but I'm not sure that Tosun is down to Walsh though, mate.

We never signed a forward in the summer, and then along comes Allardyce, who had recommended Tosun to his previous club last year by all accounts?

This is the problem with a Director of Football, in my opinion. I look across the park, and see how much more successful Liverpool have been in the transfer market since the manager started picking the players for his team.

David Barks
143 Posted 15/03/2018 at 20:40:29
Chris,

Give me one example of a player just signing for a club and giving an interview about how he didn't really want to play for his new manager and then I'll maybe care about what Walcott said upon signing. It's literally what every single signing says at every club in one way or another.

Kevin Tully
144 Posted 15/03/2018 at 21:11:46
I think everyone is getting a little ahead of themselves. Before any new manager can weed out the cliques that have become apparent under this regime, the club needs to start all over again and restructure.

Moshiri needs to inform Betty's Boy he can't call the new manager "three or four times a day" and we need to employ a new Director of Football, rather than a glorified scout dining out on signings made 5 years ago.

More importantly, the club will need a new CEO, preferably one that isn't neutered by shady goings-on over off-shore loans and a CEO who isn't regularly summoned to Aracadia Group's offices in London to explain themselves (thankfully, the spiv has cashed in) .

Only then can a manager begin to start the rebuild and reboot the whole organisation. As it stands, I don't think anyone could succeed. Moshiri may have put some equity into his investment, but he's just muddied the water as far as to who is responsible to whom. He needs to put his stamp on the club, and communicate to the fans who is exactly responsible for what. At present, they are all hiding behind this complete lack of clarity.

Chris Leyland
145 Posted 15/03/2018 at 21:42:22
Steve Ferns - re Silva:

He did finish 3rd with Sporting but they finished 2nd the year before he arrived and 2nd the year after he left.

Olympiakos have won the Greek league 19 of the past 21 seasons so I wouldn't give him that much credit there either.

His Premier League record is 16 wins in 48 games: a 33% win ratio. To put that into perspective, Sam Allardyce currently has a 39% win ratio with Everton.

Would any of the clubs we aspire to overtake have him as manager? We need to be aiming higher than this.

John Daley
146 Posted 15/03/2018 at 21:50:31
Steve @140,

I know from previous posts you are a big admirer of Silva's methods, but while you say there remains only one question mark against his name, I say there are more question marks around him than there are around the Riddler when he slips into a fucking lime green romper suit.

He has won, in total, 13 games in the Premier League, across two clubs. In 42 games his team's gave up 80 goals.

During Silva's time at the club, Hull created the least chances of any Premier League side, they conceded the second most goals and they only scraped a measly 2 points from a possible 27 away from home. In short, he failed to sufficiently improve their attack, their defence and their ability to pick up points on the road. Rather than go down fighting, they exited the league with a whimper, winning only 1 of their last 7 (getting twatted 4-0 by Crystal Palace and 7-1 at home by Spurs in the last two).

Fair enough, at Watford, he had a decent start, but when you break it down that decent start amounted to only 4 wins from 11 games, in which they conceded 21 goals (only one less than an Everton defence derided for regularly being all over the shop and weak as piss at that stage). He then managed to win a further 3 from 13, with his team conceding another 23 goals.

His previous record at clubs outside the Premier League doesn't dazzle me to any great degree either. One season at Olympiakos where they won the league before he walked out for 'personal reasons'? They won it five seasons in a row prior to his arrival and again the season after he left. Anything other than winning the league would have been failure, pure and simple. He merely had to maintain rather than mould. An entirely different proposition to the one awaiting the next Everton manager.

Winning the cup at Sporting Lisbon? While their first trophy in eight years isn't to be sniffed at, his one season in charge saw them finish third in the league table. One position lower than both his predecessor and successor.

His time at Estoril, I admittedly know little about, so can't really comment, but from the outside simply looking at where they were when he took over and where they were when he left, it still remains his most impressive achievement.

Then you have the big question:

Riddle me this: Why would anybody who would actually consider jumping ship less than six months into a new job, only 12 games into the first season of a two year contract, and (according to his employers at the time) subsequently "lost focus" because of the speculation, be deemed to possess sufficient strength of character and commitment to take on what promises to be a massive, long-term challenge?

Chris Gould
147 Posted 15/03/2018 at 21:53:40
That's true, David, but Walcott was particularly gushing and had worked with him before with the England team. He's far more likely an Allardyce signing than a Walsh one.

Not that I really give a shit, but it does get a bit tedious when people just make shit up to suit their opinion of a manager.

I haven't been impressed with Sam but those two signings seem decent. Credit where it's true.

Colin Glassar
148 Posted 15/03/2018 at 22:59:00
Fonseca for me even though I wouldn't be too upset with Silva, Jardim, Emery, AVB, Conte, Allegri, Ancelloti, Tuchel, Howe, Nunes etc .
Colin Glassar
149 Posted 15/03/2018 at 22:59:30
ABS!
Jay Harris
150 Posted 15/03/2018 at 23:08:53
Personally I don't think Silva is the answer and I was pleased we didn't get him.

I can't understand why Emry isn't talked up much on these posts as I would have gone for him in preference to Koeman.

If we could reunite him with Monchi as Director of Football, that would be a major step in the right direction.

Steve Ferns
151 Posted 15/03/2018 at 23:11:35
I think we need to have something of a potted history as the stories of Marco Silva and Paulo Fonseca often intertwine.

Paulo Fonseca had an unauspicious playing career. He was a central defender who did well enough to get a move to Porto at a young age before never playing for them and going out on loan. He played in for lower table sides and second division sides.

Portguese football is dominated by the Big 3. Benfica, Sporting and Porto. Porto were something of the third best of the trio, but since Mourinho they have been the biggest and best. Benfica have reclaimed the top spot on a few occasions and Sporting have had some lean years, even dropping down the table.

Paulo Fonseca started management young. He took a youth job at 32, and his first job at 34 in the third tier. Portguese Football is very popular, but perhaps you can compare it to Scotland in how a few clubs have nearly all the fans, and you can go to a bottom of the table top flight clash and there's little more than a couple of thousand there. I know as I have been to see Farense pay a couple of times, and they rejected the gorgeous Algarve stadium in favour of their tiny old ground.

Anyway, top two divisions are professional. The third tier is best described as regional (about six divisions running in parallel) and amateur. Foneseca had four seasons, between 3 clubs in this regional division, staying two seasons at the last of the trio and getting recognised for two consecutive cup runs.

In the Summer of 2011 Fonseca was given a job in the second flight with Aves. Silva retired that summer and stayed at his old club Estoril in an administrative capacity as a kind of Director of Football, only for Estoril to have a very bad start and sack their manager. Silva stepped in as a manager and overcame the bad start winning the league. So straight away, first season, he turns it around in spectacular style and wins the league. Now this is a small club with limited history, but they had been in the top flight before, but never in Silva's long playing career there. So in winning the league he achieved something remarkable.

Fonseca had a very good season as well. Aves are an even smaller club and to finish 3rd with them (behind Silva's Estoril of course) was a great season. It was outside the promotion places by two points, but despite this, Pacos decided to offer him a job, so Fonseca and Silva both moved up to the top flight together. Silva deciding to stay with Estoril.

Pacos were like something of a Bournemouth, established in the top flight but a small club and the clock was ticking on their time in the top flight. Fonseca had a sensational season, giving Pacos their best ever year and they finished an incredible 3rd, with Braga 4th (more on them later), and Silva's Estoril 5th. Sporting were down in 7th.

This was the season 2012-13, and that summer Moyes left Everton. Martinez came to Everton, but the Porto manager was in the running. That was Vitor Pereirra, who then left Porto for the UAE. Fonseca replaced him at Porto, who had just won the league for the third season in a row, and their fifth league in six years.

Season 2013-14 was going well for Fonseca and he was 5 points clear at the top. Then Marco Silva and Estoril came to town. Estoril beat Porto in Oporto in a sensational result. Fonseca then lost the next three and was sacked. They had also crashed out of the Champion's League, but were still in the EL in the quarters. Silva's Estoril recorded a club best 4th position continuing his record of getting a better position in every season he managed. He also took Estoril into the EL playoffs and qualified for the EL groups. They had a very difficult group, didnt win a game, drawing 3 and losing 3. They did badly losing home and away to some Czechs, but drew home and away with the Germans, and incredibly they got a point against Emery's eventual winners in Seville.

Season 2014-5 saw Silva move to Sporting. Sporting's manager, the highly regarded Leo Jardim moved to Monaco where he continues to do great things (no lads we can't get him). Fonseca went back to Pacos. Pacos had finished 3rd under Fonseca, but then crashed to 15th in a 16 team league and were set for relegation, but in Portugal you play the club who finished 2nd in the 2nd tier, they won, and so stayed up. Fonseca repaired his reputation and took them to 8th in a now 18 team league. Silva took Sporting to 3rd but won their first trophy in almost a decade, and kept them in the top 3 for back to back seasons, which after finishing 7th just the season before, and often dropping out of the top 3, mainly at the expense of Braga, was nothing to be sniffed at. Braga themselves finished 4th that season, and after recovering from a disastrous 9th the season before, you could be forgiven for thinking they had a great season, but no, they sacked their manager for “disrespecting the president”. Portugal is bonkers, .and there's lots of sackings for ridiculous reasons, but Silva was apparently sacked, despite winning the Cup, for not wearing the right club suit.

Silva then exits this story as he goes off to manage in Greece winning the League with perennial champions Olympiacos, but in a style that is fondly remembered, particularly for a certain victory over Arsenal at the Emirates. Silva had

2015-6 saw Paulo Fonseca move from Pacos to Braga. Which is why i've mentioned them a few times now. As stated above, they just sacked their manager for disrespecting the President, but this was Fonseca's shot at redemption. Braga are a club with limited history. At this point they had only ever won the Cup in the 60s. They had been 2nd in the league about five years before, and perennial gatecrashers to the top 3, and so were in effect the best of the rest. They had also been finalists of the Europa League in 2011. Fonseca delivered 4th again, again miles off the big 3, but he had great success in the Cups. He won the Taco (the main Cup) recording only the second trophy ever, and also got to the quarters of the EL.

In the summer of 2016, Fonseca then moves to Shaktar. I note he won the Ukranian title for the first time for a few years, deposing Dynamo Kiev, and in doing so did the treble. He also is set to clinch his second title this season, and we all know about his Champions League exploits.

In terms of Fonseca's style, here's where we lose a load of you, it's more Martinez than anything. It's tippy, it's tappy. He plays a 4231. Possession and retention of the ball is the name of the game, but Fonseca tries to play quick passes in the Barcelona style of old. There's a decent article with some nice GIFs
here that explains it better than I can.

Who would I go for? Probably Fonseca as things stand. He's going to come in and instantly have the respect of the dressing room, Silva less so. But, and I'm influenced by friends here, Silva is the better coach. He's very hands on, very highly rated, and can make a real difference. As I said, my mates in Portugal are all Sporting fans, and they think he's a bit special. He's their Mourinho and they were majorly pissed off when he was sacked. They wish the President had gone instead. There's a load of videos of Silva training Hull where you can see just how intense he is, and how much actual coaching he is doing himself. None of this Koeman and Allardyce stand back and watch crap. He's in there micro managing the players and ensuring they all know what's expected of them, none of this Allardyce stuff of let them figure it out. This approach hasn't worked under either of the last two managers.

I don't know how involved Fonseca will get, but he plays a more familiar style to that of Martinez with a 4231, and sadly for some, yes two holding midfielders. It's more defensive and robust than Martinez though, and you'll have noted they haven't conceded a great many in Europe.

Steve Ferns
152 Posted 15/03/2018 at 23:15:28
John: "Why would anybody who would actually consider jumping ship less than six months into a new job, only 12 games into the first season of a two year contract, and (according to his employers at the time) subsequently "lost focus" because of the speculation, be deemed to possess sufficient strength of character and commitment to take on what promises to be a massive, long-term challenge"

Why would you not want to move from Watford to Everton? It's a bigger club, he has ambition, it's more money, it's security with a club who have had 15 managers ever (rough guess) when Watford have had at this century (gross exaggeration I'm sure but you will understand my point). And I would not take any reason the Pozzis give for sacking a manager as a just reason. The Pozzis had definitely changed managers at their clubs more in 20 years than Everton ever have, and that says it all.

Steve Ferns
153 Posted 15/03/2018 at 23:33:42
Just to confirm Everton have had 23 managers ever (though the first four were only really secretaries and so were not managers), whilst Watford have had 23 managers since 1988. Meanwhile, the Pozzos have had 9 managers at Watford since 2012, 30 managers at Udinese (since 1986), and 10 managers in their 8 years at Granada. That's 49 managers.

Would you work for them?

John G Davies
154 Posted 16/03/2018 at 00:06:02
Steve Ferns,

A really good insights to the two potential replacements for manager. I enjoyed reading the tactical analysis.

Thanks for taking the time, mate. 👍

Laurie Hartley
156 Posted 16/03/2018 at 03:39:54
John Daley (#146) - I often wonder when reading your posts whether or not such snippets as this are your own work:

I say there are more question marks around him than there are around the Riddler when he slips into a fucking lime green romper suit.

If so you have wonderful gift.

As an aside - In your post you make mention of the relegation battle between Palace and Hull which Palace won 4-0 sending Hull down - remind me again who the two managers were.

Tony Everan
157 Posted 16/03/2018 at 10:42:11
Yes thanks Steve for the insight, it makes interesting reading.

Rumoured that Benfica are courting Silva with a €3.6M 2-year contract.

I got the impression though he really fancies the job here at Everton. He was quietly enthused about it while at Watford. Remember, we were willing to pay £15M to buy out his contract too. He is a manager that we want to come and we could get.

One thing that is for sure is that the new man needs to be here bu June 1st to have a chance to convey methods, assess the squad, and make a few signings before the start of next season.

Sam Hoare
158 Posted 16/03/2018 at 11:36:16
Steve @151, great post and very illuminating. I've wanted Silva from the moment we were linked to him and what you says backs up my instinct; the guy is a proper coach. He is our best current shot at finding our own Pochetinno.

Fonseca could well do a good job too but I still think Silva and Everton is fated.

I'd get him in on Sunday to be honest, give him the last 8 games to get a feel for the squad and what needs to be done this Summer. But that would be a bold and far-sighted move. I won't hold my breath.

Brian Harrison
159 Posted 16/03/2018 at 12:12:49
I believe it will either be Fonseca or Silva and I wouldn't be unhappy with either, but our opinions count for nothing. The man who will decide was quite prepared to pay Watford in excess of 㾶 million for Silva; now I don't see what would put him off getting the same man for nothing.

Yes, rumour has it that he also enquired about Fonseca as well as Simeone. I don't think we have a cat-in-hell's chance of Simeone – now he was my first choice before we got Martinez or Koeman.

I would hope that, if Moshiri is still wanting Silva, then he needs to be talking to him about his plans for next season. With a World Cup in the summer, signing players will be difficult. I am sure most will get a quick holiday before joining their respective countries; then, until their country is knocked out, you won't be able to speak to them.

So making plans now is paramount, also does he want Walsh as Director of Footballl? And I assume all the coaches there now will go.

Jamie Evans
160 Posted 16/03/2018 at 12:44:04
Thank you, Steve Ferns.

Silva is back in the running for me now.


Michael Lynch
161 Posted 16/03/2018 at 13:08:28
Whether it's Fonseca or Silva, we'll need a massive clear-out of players. The key is whether the next manager can put together a squad that is capable of performing competently in the manager's chosen style.

I don't have a strong opinion about who that next manager should be, but they'll only last six months if they can't put together a winning team playing attractive football. Best not get rid of Unsy, there's a more-than-evens chance that we'll be calling on him again.

Franny Porter
162 Posted 16/03/2018 at 13:12:30
I think the fact that Southampton never appointed Silva when he was strongly linked – and then went on to appoint Mark fucking Hughes – speaks volumes.

I now reckon he's nailed-on to come here in the Summer. I don't think Farhad Moshiri would give Sam the boot before the end of the season purely as a respect type of thing.

Also, after reading Steve's excellent post, I'm on board with Silva now.

Brian Harrison
163 Posted 16/03/2018 at 13:20:34
Slightly off topic, I have just had a call from Everton to remind me my season ticket is due for renewal by the 6th April. I can only assume sales of season tickets are not going well.
Brian Murray
164 Posted 16/03/2018 at 13:35:56
I also have had a season ticket reminder from the club. I will wait to see who is in the hot seat and, just as important, who is sitting next to Mosh and who is DoF.

All vital calls as important as each other in our immediate future.
James Flynn
165 Posted 16/03/2018 at 14:19:57
Regarding Silva or Fonseca coming to Everton, I hope Moshiri takes into consideration:

Managing from 2011-Present:
Silva – 5 clubs
Fonseca – 6 clubs

If he picks one of the two, I hope "long-term" goals were an important part of the interview process.

Whoever he picks, we've had 5 managers in the last 6 years. Be nice to get a few years of stability there...

James Hughes
166 Posted 16/03/2018 at 15:02:51
He impressed when he took over the mess that was Hull City FC but tailed off at the end.

Silva took over Hull in January, after 20 games – they had 13 points. By the end of season, they finished on 34 points. Silva had six wins from 18 games, drew 3, lost 9. He kept them in the mix until April, then lost 5 of the last 7 games. A similar run of form saw him sacked from Watford.

Is he what we need? I would say 'No' but then couldn't offer an alternative candidate.

John Daley
167 Posted 16/03/2018 at 15:06:33
"Would you work for them?"

Possibly not, Steve, but if like Silva, I had flitted through four different clubs in only 3½ years, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't flinch. Given his own propensity for popping off early doors it would be a bit like the Mayfly pointing a finger (err...alright, a filament) at the Gastrotrich and giving him grief for being "a fucking goner".

For me, the more pertinent question is what makes a bloke, who has failed to make it past a single season in four out of five managerial roles, the best suited candidate to spearhead what will be, from the outset, a 3-, 4- or 5-year 'project'?

It's all well and good saying he was sacked from one job for being a dress-code divvy, left another because he had loads going on in his personal life, walked away from another because he wanted to get back to the league he had just failed to win enough games to keep his team in, and was binned from the last because his head was battered by being linked to a bigger club and his bosses had been complete bellends in the past before he had even got there anyway, but the end result is still the same. Silva hitting the road with a bag slung over his shoulder, the 'lonely man' theme tune from the Incredible Hulk TV show tinkling away in the background, and the team left behind in his wake beginning the search for a new boss all over again way ahead of schedule.

John Daley
168 Posted 16/03/2018 at 15:09:11
"...the relegation battle between Palace and Hull which Palace won 4-0 sending Hull down - remind me again who the two managers were"

My pleasure, Laurie:

Link

Tony McNulty
169 Posted 16/03/2018 at 15:44:17
John (167)

No prizes for guessing the identity of the Hulk then in your scenario. A big man, who can be interpersonally challenged, change colour when losing his temper, looks a little too large for his ill-fitting clothing .

Tony Abrahams
170 Posted 16/03/2018 at 18:50:28
Thanks Steve, I've really enjoyed reading your posts on this thread. I'm not a big fan of tippy/tappy, but if it's played at pace I suppose it becomes more enjoyable.

I love to watch an organized team defend, then hit the opposition on the counter so, after reading what you have got to say, then I would like to see us get Fonseca!

Jim Hardin
171 Posted 16/03/2018 at 21:49:51
Paul Welsby,

Do you actually review your arguments in your posts before hitting send? I am beginning to think not.

I would think that Burnley being "above" us would be harder than it looks since the club spends less than we do and they are, gasp, above us. There are more teams below us than are above us, so by definition, Dyche has managed something that is more difficult, unlike Silva.

As for your comments about getting a proven big-name manager, none of the top managers will come.

As for getting in a manager who has won something somewhere in Europe, well, that doesn't always work out. (Rafa?) Koeman won things and how did he work out? A foreign manager is just that, a foreign manager. Having a foreign name doesn't guarantee success. Those who may want Silva kinda prove the point, as he has been an utter failure since he got here. Almost kept Hull up – wow, is there a trophy for that? Got Watford off to a good start – again, a trophy or a major award for that accomplishment?

Yes, Paul, I would want a manager who knows what it takes to fight in the Premier League while doing so with limited resources rather than one managing in a lesser league in Portugal, Belgium, Croatia, etc. If you think Dyche has not improved Burnley in the last two years, look again. If you think he is only capable of playing one way, look again. If you think he should not be a candidate for Everton, if Sam is fired, then please think again.

So Paul, if not including two managers who have done well at their smaller clubs is your idea of how to make a list of managers you want at Everton, then I too despair.

Btw, I did suggest a proven foreign coach as a choice but maybe you missed it, as perhaps, you were to busy drafting your snide comments. Or, maybe you just ran out of your claimed "patience"?

David Currie
172 Posted 16/03/2018 at 22:14:27
Eddie Howe is my choice, he is a very good coach and done superb at Bournemouth. He would bring our young players through by developing an attractive style of play and the mentality to have a go at the top teams.
Don Alexander
173 Posted 16/03/2018 at 23:01:23
Sean Dyche has won my admiration for repeatedly signing and molding players who were journeyman in anyone's language, whilst at the same time selling several for way more than he paid for them, without detriment to his club.

Unfortunately, we have within our psyche as a club the snobby notion that we're still somehow "great" though, when we're patently not, and haven't been for at least 20 years, if not 30.

Under Dyche, Burnley are now matching our best achievements, those best achievements amounting to scraping European qualification by the skin of our teeth before being embarrassed right around the world the following season as we succumb to the likes of Bludikok, Nevaurdov Nevawozgud, Irkutsk Castraitmi, and other such European "notables" nobody's ever heard of.

The 24 carat question is, as ever, could Dyche cut it at a bigger club, with better spending money and, on paper at least, a better squad?

Ah yes, the squad! Even if our next manager is already festooned with trophies in a hitherto glittering career to date or, far more likely, he's a thrusting wanna-be with an unavoidable history of comparatively modest achievement in the real world where unlimited money isn't a given, do we already have too many shit-house characters in our squad who will mutiny in favour of the easy life their mind-blowing contracts bestow on them rather than roll their sleeves up and graft for a manager who sees 100% commitment as a given before attempting to coach winning football into them?

In 2013–14, Dyche's first full season in charge, Burnley finished 2nd in the Championship and were automatically promoted back to the Premier League. Their stay in the division only lasted a single season as they finished 19th out of 20 clubs and were relegated, before returning as Champions with a run of 23 league games undefeated.

With a combination of excellent home form but with very poor away results, Burnley finished 16th last season, six points above the relegation zone. Again learning quick he's got them 7th already this season, winning 13 more points away from home than we've done.

Could he achieve those quick turn-arounds with us though? Could he develop attractive winning football? Would he get the chance to assemble a squad of characters with the ability to play that way? Maybe, maybe not, but unlike Silva, Fonseca and others he's already shown he can repeatedly make silk purses out of sow's ears whilst in the Premier League and if our present squad is in any way better than a sow's ear then I'm a don't-know-what.

I look forward to others telling me what I am though! Up The Blues.

Lawrence Green
174 Posted 17/03/2018 at 01:01:40
Don (#173),

I don't know whether our players are up for it or not, but there is little doubt that most of them have been underperforming for far too long, some of them for years. Dyche may prove to be more than capable of moulding them into a tight knit group able to scrape into the Europa League but can he push them much further than that?

If Everton had have performed to a level that they are capable of on a consistent basis this season, Burnley and Leicester would be in our wake and we should be hot on the tails of Arsenal. There is quite a list of reasons for this sorry season but, given a decent manager who is ambitious for himself and for Everton FC, surely even our much maligned squad can produce far better next season than they have this.

As for your argument that we have fallen in Europe to a list of unknown clubs, well here are the clubs that have put Everton out in previous tournaments. Lyon, Dynamo Kiev, Sporting Lisbon, Standard Liege, Fiorentina, Dinamo Bucharest and Villarreal, none of them are the cream of Europe but most are recognised as seasoned European campaigners. This season's European experience was way below the levels we expect or demand and of course the likes of Atlanta and Limasol should never have been in a position to finish above us in the Europa League.

Koeman and indeed Allardyce did not seem to want to do more than the bare minimum with the squad, blaming individual players for losses and taking the praise when we managed to win the odd game.

Whoever gets the gig at Goodison has to share the ambitions of Evertonians and if he can get his team to show that ambition where it matters out on the park, he will be halfway to delivering something we can be proud of. Another few years of safety-first football without laying a glove on most of the top sides will likely leave us languishing with the like of Burnley. I want far more than that for Everton FC and I'm' pretty sure you do to.


Tony Everan
175 Posted 17/03/2018 at 09:33:54
Don, Bludikok and Castraitmi ... two away legs I will be avoiding at all costs!
Brian Williams
176 Posted 17/03/2018 at 10:03:09
Both legs'll be wide open against Castraitmi, and painful to watch.
Don Alexander
177 Posted 17/03/2018 at 10:04:47
Thanks Lawrence, it's the decades-long perpetually dashed hopes that sometimes do me in but, like you, I'd like to find a manager who can find a positive spark in the squad. Fair comment too on the European teams we've played but none of them resonate do they, and that is why our standing in world football is so poor. I wish it wasn't so.
Tony Everan
178 Posted 17/03/2018 at 12:17:46
Don,

Success is achievable for us if do find the manager with that ‘spark'.

I look at Sevilla, they appoint managers with that spark, find good players and do well year after year. I don't see Sevilla a million miles ahead of us in terms of support and finances.

The right manager could conceivably make us achieve what Sevilla has.

David Midgley
179 Posted 17/03/2018 at 16:47:33
DA #26, After your mention of Cortese. I checked him out.

I think he,before we get a new manager should be the person to come to Everton to get the club sorted and on the right path.

There was an article about looking Coutinho over and how he came across Pochit. . Liked what he saw and then started researching him via the players agents.

There's an interview of him on YouTube by Jim White

( I know) .He is ready for a return to football and I think He and Everton could be a good match.

Who knows what other managers he's looked at?

Google -'Phillipe Coutinho Southampton @

Everything seems quiet on the Silva front, I wonder if he's been given the nod and has been watching us for next season.
"It's a funny old game "

Sam Hoare
180 Posted 18/03/2018 at 09:24:20
Howe would be my choice had he replicated his success anywhere else. The one time he moved from Bournemouth it went badly. Same with Dyche to a degree, though he has not had a bad move like Howe, he's never proved himself outside of Burnley.

To take a manager who has done well at only one club is riskier for me than taking someone who has performed well at different clubs in different leagues which I think Silva and Fonseca have done, again to a degree...

Moyes did very well at Everton, but look what he happened when he left. Long-term success at one club does not mean that manager will adapt well to new clubs/challenges.

Tony Abrahams
181 Posted 18/03/2018 at 09:34:14
I'm not necessarily advocating Dyche, Sam, but he was doing a very good job at Watford, under the circumstances, and was only dismissed when they went for the high profile Zola, which turned out to be a backwards step.
Chad Schofield
182 Posted 26/03/2018 at 00:03:43
As ever, some fantastic insight on here.

I have to say that I can see merits in many mentioned, but Allardyce offers us stability only because he's here and built like a Weeble. With a shortened pre-season thanks to the World Cup, it's imperative to assign a new man before June so he can assess what we have and need.

I agree with those saying we need somebody who has had success as a manager... not just as a player – Fonseca or Simeone. I like the romance of Howe, but it's a risk we don't need.

Dale Rose
183 Posted 27/03/2018 at 13:10:20
I think that, whoever we go for at the moment, manager-wise, we will not be in a good position next season. We need some stability and Allardyce will bring that. Shore up the defence and get the youngsters back, and start to integrate them.

This club has not been performing like a top four club for a lot of years, what it could always do though, was cause an upset. There has been no real evidence of even that this season.

I know I'm in a tiny minority saying this, and I have been no great fan of Sam, he has done what he set out to do, and 12 months won't make a great deal of difference in the great scheme of things. We do have a good mix of players, there is a good team in there. Give it some time.

Chad Schofield
184 Posted 27/03/2018 at 19:53:36
I completely disagree, Dale. Allardyce is far, far going from a top 4 manager. His points record is woeful, he hasn't aired us up, he's ploughed in with the same old mistakes made before his arrival and given the initial easy run he had he blew his chance to become seen as anything other than a firefighter.

Keeping him to the end of the season is too long. If he fails to prune and strengthen over the summer we could be left in turmoil as players won't want to stick around as we play Huddersfield away as though we're facing Barcelona and wait to get trounced by the top six.

Under almost any circumstances I'd be prepared to go with stability and build, but it was a terrible decision to bring in Sam and his team.

I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this next choice is as big as I can remember for the club. We have gone from sleeping giants to plucky to a joke. Sam could set us for a course that would make the 90s look like a cruise.

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