Premier League — Week 7

Leeds v Watford is pretty exciting. It's odd though to see the Leeds fans have become happy clappers seemingly just enjoying the ride in the EPL and not getting frustrated at dodgy defending and mediocre results. They know their place. Now if Man City and Chelsea would get back to that traditional mindset and become canon fodder again things would be looking better.

I'll be honest, I didn't even notice any other results yesterday and played catch up this morning.

I can relax and watch the football today and looking forward to it.

Despite their heroics against Tottenham last week, more pressure on Arteta? Him or Steve Bruce for the inevitable October panic chop?

OMG, just seen the challenge by James Ward-Prowse which resulted in a straight red card. Career threatening challenge in anyone's book and red card justified.

But Rob, “he's just not that kind of player”. re Son on Gomes, load of bollocks, they clearly are that type of player.

Definitely Rob. Shocker of a tackle that one.

Danny, the dog walk and the toffs are good for any stress. Who would of thought that, times are a changing. Coyb. Here's to Man City making it even better weekend, probably quit while I'm ahead and turn the tv off about 4 pm. Not that I've ever seen a game of theirs in decades.

I see our old friends The Pozzos are at it again and just sacked the Watford manager. Seems more than a tad harsh.

Rob, absolutely. I presume that was the type of challenge that Ole Gunnar Shitthebed was expecting Fred to make on Demarai Gray yesterday.

Watford sacking their manager is just madness.

They're 14th with 7 points.

They just love to sack a manager at Watford don't they

Watford are doing okay, I hope they go down after that. What a pass by Ross Barkley in the build-up towards Werner's goal for Chelsea yesterday, an absolute peach of a pass.

C'mon, Palace, suck it to LC.

And I just read Ole Gunnar Shitthebed. Brilliant, Neil, that was worth getting up early to read that.

Well, that was retarded.

CP 0-1 LC

This Villa Spurs game is rough could see someone getting sent off. Spurs looked so good three years ago now they just look like another middle table team

38 minutes in, and Vardy scores with his second touch of the game.

Not sure about their upcoming games but dropping two points late vs BHA and now melting down defensively – this is a big half for Viera.

Olise makes it a game. CP 1-2 LC

Knell! Viera figured it out. Olise making a difference Schlupp levels, CP 2-2 LC

Schlupp on as a Palace sub, and scores 45 seconds later. 2-2.

Glad to see the Man City team bus made it safely into Anfield.

Dale

I saw Brenda talking about Lookman the other day saying he's skillful, hasn't had a good run of games at a club, but if they can improve his consistency he has the skill to be perfect for Leicester. Left me thinking about Demarai Gray the fellow Rodgers got rid of. How's he doing these days?

I like it, Kieran. Sounds like Ratchild's and Ole's spin on the game. Lookman is not good for any locker room is the feeling I get from his presence and reception.

Vardy is hurt. No stretcher, it looks like he's walking. Tough fucker.

The Bees come through. Hammers 1-2 Bees

Smash and grab job. WHU all over them second half but goals win games

Well well, the Thursday / Sunday hoodoo really bites De Ammers on the arse!! 😁😁😁

Yep cringing with the Minge. Now it's time for the two hour hate. I wouldn't want to give them too much attention or obsess about but after yesterday I could do a live anti-forum if it was there.

Come on city, fuck the Norwegians.

Fucking scumbags booing and whistling every time City have posession.
Really hate that.
Classless shitbags.

Mind you a lot of foreign supporters do that.

Fascinating start. Both teams taken out of their usual press in the first ten minutes

Brian. My view too on that booing. Classless.

Beardaldo almost gifted one there damn.

Brent, I don't think supporters of any other Premier League club do it.

Could be wrong mind.

I don't know of any others in uk, Brian.

Silva brilliant.

Should have been a goal. Bernard with possibly the best dribble I've seen in a decade

Foden should've scored, should've hit it first time.

City much the better side so far. Should be ahead.

The gobshites have forgotten to boo and whistle now because they're crapping themselves.

City should be ahead. They are clearly targeting Milner and have got down that RS right side several times. Ederson is being troubled more by his own defenders than the RS attack.

Milner on toast at the moment.

What a ball from the City keeper.
The shite getting a football lesson at the moment.

How aren't Man City ahead? If Foden keeps skinning Milner then surely a second yellow will follow.

When City are good, they are outstanding. Today, they are outstanding.

For long periods in that half, Liverpool could hardly get out of their own penalty area, never mind their own half.

City need to press home their advantage second half because if they don't we all know what happens.

I just think Man City's determination to walk it in will cost them. I'd like to see Foden put his laces through one.

Why the fuck did I post that!

Get the feck in

It's okay Goooooooooool!!!!!
Suckit 1-1 Citeh

What a talent that lad is

Fucking shithouse referee. Milner should have got a second yellow card there.

In what alternate universe is that not a second yellow?

Diabolical referee, what a shithouse, definite yellow and sending off, bottled it.

Games change on poor refereeing or is it bent refereeing decisions? 5 mins after Milner shoujd be off he's involved in the build up to the shite's second.

Get in

It's okay again.Gooooooool!!!!!!
Suckit 2-2 Citeh

Deflection. How sad.

Fantastic game. Pure brilliance.

What a goal by Salah, sometimes you just have to applaud brilliance

Even if you don't feel like it

Graham I was tempted to post the same but wanted you to get banned by posting.

Cheers mate 😂

Graham

Salah was terrible – instead of shooting, he should have passed to Yerry Mina.

Pep probably fuming. I bet they go on a big run undefeated. Shame they have to face the Toffees because I'm sure we will have a plan to stop 'em. Gates are back open at the School of Science...

Pity the chance for Everton to pick up 3 points yesterday wasn't taken; however, the weekend's results weren't too shabby from a Toffee's point of view. I watched Bayern lose at home 1-2 and then came on here to find out how City had fared.

Man City have 4 points from away games at Chelsea and Liverpool. Liverpool have 2 points from home games against Chelsea and City. I'd say that gives City the edge in the title race.

Notice that Carlo and Ronald managed to lead their sides to defeat this weekend. Real Madrid losing 2-1 at Espanyol and Barca losing to Atletico.

If Danny O'Neill is reading, I've watched a few Bundesliga games this season and have seen many empty seats, is there a limit on attendances relating to Covid or are the fans staying away from the televised games?

Scumbag kopite alleged to have spat at Man City backroom staff. Something else to add to the list of shame. No word yet if it was Caragher

Rob@47, ditto, how the hell, and at any other ground, Milner would have walked.

Let's hope for a good international break, and our injured list, starts reducing.

Hi Barry, yes a more cautious approach, probably linked to the slower roll out of the vaccine programme in comparison to the UK. Here's an extract from an article I read:

"In 14 of Germany's 16 states, a capacity cap of 50% has been put in place, with the maximum number of spectators set at 25,000. In the state of Bavaria (where Bayern Munich play), as well as in the city-state of Hamburg, the authorities have taken a stricter approach".

Palace v Leicester was a classic game of 2 halves. Fair result but I'd have not been surprised to see Palace snatch that. Great sportsmanship from McArthur when he realised he'd injured Vardy. He was only concerned for the player, not whether it was a foul or not.

Enjoyed the Liverpool v City match too. Salah and Foden the best players on the pitch. How did Milner not get a 2nd yellow? Klopp knew it and hooked him sharpish.

Schalke win 3-0. A good footballing weekend.

Thanks for the info, Danny.

If the formatting works - for the benefit of Mr Gaynes
Table = This year's 7 games + results from the 31 fixtures still to be played.
City won last year, Spurs lost last year; WHU won last year so some big moves at the top.

Points Diff Points Goal Diff
1 Man City -4 82 51
2 Liverpool +7 76 38
3 Chelsea +5 72 32
4 Man Utd -5 69 26
5 Tottenham +4 66 18
6 West Ham 0 65 17
7 Everton +5 64 5
8 Leicester -5 61 12
9 Arsenal -4 57 5
10 Leeds -4 55 0
11 Aston Villa -4 51 4
12 Brighton +10 51 0
13 Wolves 0 45 -17
14 Southampton +2 45 -19
15 Crystal Palace 0 44 -24
16 Newcastle -5 40 -21
17 Burnley -6 33 -24
18 Brentford +9 32 -28
19 Watford +4 30 -35
20 Norwich -8 20 -40

Nah, formatting didn't work. Sorry.

Jesus - we got a goal in goal of the month.

Against I presume?

that is usually the only time.

I can't remember if I posted this suggestion before but how about a third card? A card that would immediately place the recipient in a sin bin for 10 or 15 minutes. A subsequent yellow card, in the same match, would see the player dismissed from the field.
I like to believe that such a mechanism would reduce the number of cynical fouls in the modern game.
(yes I am in my 70s and started following Everton on the road 69-70 season, that spoiled me but great days)

Rob@47: For me, one of the biggest signs that Milner should have been sent off is the fact that my red mates are saying a draw was a fair result. They all know he should have been sent off, which would have changed the course of the game and in all likelihood the particular goal from Salah wouldn't have happened. Disgraceful decision given blatant fouling by Milner. City were in control most of the time, and should have put the game to bed.

Only the new king of punditry Jermaine Jenas noticed that Milner should have been sent off for denying Foden a goal scoring opportunity before the yellow card he was given anyway. The ref didn't even give a foul and yet in the 2nd half he, not only gave a foul against Cancelo, but he booked him too; when he clipped Salah in an identical manner.

It is clear that we are witnessing the return of the biased ref.

I don't suppose Chelski care but they really screwed up back in the day when they discarded De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku.. Where all three so poor back them.

Tom @76: I always think that in many respects how good a player is depends on the team in which he plays, unless the player is a genius like Messi or Best.

Salah bloomed when he joined Liverpool, possibly because he fitted into Klopp's system. Just as Coutinho improved when Klopp arrived, but then Coutinho regressed when he went to Barca. When Lukaku left us, he wasn't as good for Man Utd, and so on.

Obviously players have innate talent but, for most of them, how much that talent shows itself depends on the setup.

One year ago today the RS lost 7-2 at Villa which means the next set of Premier League games will be the anniversary of the great clash between Jordan Pickford and St Virgil of the Blessed Knee.

What price a Sky Sports memorial special?

Andrew @78,

I think, maybe, perhaps, that incident will be forgotten in the rush to declare an Egyptian as the greatest living footballer on the planet and they will show his latest goal on a loop for the next decade – a goal I have yet to see and one I will attempt to avoid seeing.

It won't be easy but I'm determined to avoid all things from over the park as often as I can. If it wasn't for TW I wouldn't know who played for them or how wonderful they are supposed to be.

Barry, I haven't seen it yet either but the love-in is ridiculous.

I think you need an alias to be a Liverpool fan, Stan, the most popular being Rick O'Shea.

Far better than Salah's run on goal was Bernard Silva's pirouetting dribble past about 7 Liverpool players and yet all we get is Salah rammed down our throats as the greatest player in the world.

Also the Pundits did not raise the issue of Milner's second Yellow with Klopp or Pep in the after match interviews.

I'm also getting sick of the coverage of "You'll Never Walk Alone" before every game which they don't do for any other club.

The bias is sickening.

Jay. Bollox to 'em. I'd rather walk alone as my tee-shirt says. 😁

Good for you, Brian. There must be a big market for those tee-shirts as I'm sure every football fan is sick of the glorification of them.

Tony #81,

Rick O'Shea is also a Wales Rugby commentator with a great sense of humour and good reputation. My wife cracks up every time she hears his name mentioned on TV!

It's already being labelled one of the best goals of the Premier League era by the BBC, Barry, so in addition to ignoring the existence of football before 1992, standby for the big love-in and be careful when you switch the box on for the next several years!

Great run, great finish. But best? I saw a better finish by Townsend against Burnley. And Gray's determination and run to set up the passage of play for our equaliser led to an equally impressive goal. Okay, team goal, not individual, but just as good.

Honestly!!

Claudio joins the Ponzo scheme at Hertfordshire. Welcome back old man. Ah the Premier League stories...

Tom [76],

I don't know if you remember one of our last Europa League jaunts, when we beat Wolfsburg home and away. Wolfsburg had a midfielder on loan, who to the best of my memory played in both matches. I don't remember noticing him at all in either match. His name: Kevin de Bruyne.

According to Bingo, everyone will be talking about Salad's goal for the next sixty years!! What a 🔔🔚!

See the Echo are reporting 3 men arrested by police after 1 threw a flare before the Liverpool game, obviously fans of our neighbours. Plus no further updates on finding the charming Reds supporter who spat at one of Man City's staff after the game, apparently the cameras caught it so should be no problem identifying the culprit.

I can't be the only viewer who saw Salah's goal on MOTD and thought "is that it"?

I mean, it was so hyped up that I was quite surprised when it turned out to be just a nice little jinking run and a decent finish. Look, I know I'm biased, but it wasn't even the best goal of the season so far, let alone in the history of the Premier League.

Salad, Rob. I will use that more often in reference to their goal scorer moving forward!!!

It's obviously a ploy by Bingo to
a) justify a salary increase for "Salad"
b) Increase "Salad's" transfer fee if he leaves.

The media appear to be aiding and abetting that club at every turn, notice how Davies who has been rumoured to be on the move, perhaps even in January is dismissed as a 'bottler' for passing the ball to Mina by Ian Wright and company - which obviously doesn't help to maximise his transfer value, to the detriment of Everton FC

Football is a huge business and the media follow the money and it often helps to ensure the money stays focussed on the usual suspects but our red cousins benefit the most because out of the major six they are probably in need of the most help.

To be fair it was a brilliant goal but anyone who would mention that and not go on to glow about Bernardo's run and pass for what should have been goal of the century, well you know they're just working it.

I presumed when the Beeb and Klippity were bigging up 'one of the great PL goals that people will still be talking about in 60 years time' they were talking about this:

Townsend Goal v Man Utd, All Angles

If each and every player involved in the goal gets one touch wrong at any time in the play, the goal doesn't happen. The starting and finishing positions of the three players most involved is a marvel to behold. Allan near the corner of the 6-yard box. Gray, Doucouré and Townsend in a line parallel to the penalty spot across the width of the penalty area.

Allan's one-touch pass – not a hacked clearance – from Fernandes's corner to the already moving Gray gives the latter a head start over Fred. Gray's first touch sets him clear goal side away from Fred, but heading towards the touchline.

He sets himself for Fred's challenge, who bounces off him. With Wan-Bissaka closing in on him, Gray's close control to the touchline is perfection personified. By this time, Doucouré has made a lung-bursting run to offer Gray the pass inside. One touch to get it under control with forward movement, two swift touches to take two covering United men out of the game.

On the other flank, Townsend has jogged forward to the half-way line and is 30 yards behind the play but, when Doucouré receives the ball, he immediately sees the opening and puts on the after-burners to offer Doucouré the pass which he delivers at the perfect pace and angle.

Townsend gets the ball under control with a sublime touch with the outside of his left boot, then THUMP! Keeper doesn't move.

Townsend has seen the picture of the play already, knowing where De Gea and the goal is, because at no time when the ball comes to him does he look up in that direction. His eyes remain focussed on the ball.

On a personal note, I'm not one for the Live Forum. I don't comment in-play on Michael's live match updates, only before kick-off, at half-time and after the final whistle.

Only twice have I been moved to post a comment when the game was still in play. The first, Lukaku's wonder goal in the FA Cup win v Chelsea, Moshiri's first match at the club.

The second was on Saturday following this goal.

It won't happen, but if there is any genuine discernment and honesty, come the end of October, Andros Townsend should receive his second consecutive 'Goal of the Month' award.

Heard about the wonder goal. Saw it; thought... "Is that it?"

Honestly, what a let-down. Wasn't even the best goal of the weekend.

Brilliant footage that, Jay, especially watching those Evertonians going berserk!

Jay @95: Great post.

Well that one was certainly my favorite Jay BRZ, good work.

Great stuff, Jay! Gets better each time I see it.

Note the timer on the goal too?

From Fernandes taking the corner to the ball nestling in the United goal, 16 seconds.

And it's not as if it is a novelty in Everton's play this season. Our counter-attacking has been rapier-like on numerous occassions.

Teams will note that and be leery of going all gung-ho against us.

A joy to behold – no matter how many times or from what angle you watch it, Jay (BRZ).

There's also a crucial moment just before we break from that corner from which, as you highlight, Allan makes a clever clearance. I wouldn't say pinpointed, but he didn't smash it and tried to play it into space where he thought an Everton player could pick up possession. The rest was just sublime; counter-attacking at its utmost best.

The bit before that is Allan charging back to block a potentially dangerous cross to give away said corner to give us a chance to defend it and break. And then straight up to shout and bark instructions at the Everton players he felt should have done better.

I can and will watch that goal time and time again.

Great stuff, Jay. Not sure if it's just me but when I'm nodding off to sleep at night, if we've won, I'll invariably replay the goal(s) or highlights in my mind. That goal has been on loop for the last 2 nights. More angles tonight with that clip to keep it going. Good night

I see that on the BBC news site, someone called Chris Sutton, who apparently played for Blackburn Rovers, has said that Salad is better than Messi and Ronaldo. That settles it then, especially when coupled with Klopp's statement that Salad's goal will be talked about in 1,000 years.

Deluded or what?

It's all about them. They have to be relevant. They're like some footballing Higgs Boson, if they're not seen – and seen to be relevant – they can't exist.

Stan (104) - Come on...

Chris Sutton is a very well-known ex-footballer who won the Premier League title with Blackburn, was briefly Chelsea's most expensive player, and now is one of the most popular (and outspoken) voices in radio punditry. You may disagree with what he says but his pedigree is not in doubt.

As for what he actually said about Salah – which is that, at the present moment, he is better than Messi and Ronaldo – well, it's a fair opinion to have; Messi and Ronaldo are both inevitably slightly past their peak, while Salah is still at his peak.

That scruff salad has no resale value at the age of 29 but surely when the two Spanish giants get over their debt problems ( as they will sooner or later ) They will swoop for him. Just thought I'd rock the boat as they and their ex rs media pundits love to do when we have a sellable asset.,

Jay, that link was just magic. It was a great way to start the day!

I think it is really sad that Man Utd and Newcastle Utd and others stick away fans in some distant corner of the ground, well away from the pitch.

I used to love the atmosphere at Goodison when Man Utd or some other well-supported team filled the Park End.

Chelsea still have fans behind the goal and it definitely doesn't make them any less likely to win; indeed, the noise from the away fans invariably wake the home support from their slumber.

The noise from our distanced away fans came over very loud all game.

I remember Jose Mouriniho getting interviewed after Chelsea had just beat Everton 1-0, during the season we came 4th under Moyes, and he was asking how could 3,000 Evertonians make a lot more noise than 35,000 Chelsea fans? This is when the away fans used to be down the side at Stamford Bridge, and I think by the next season they had been moved behind the goal?

Maybe Sunderland just copied off their neighbours but, after 6,500 Evertonians gave our team the greatest night of support I've genuinely ever witnessed, it wasn't long after that they also began to put the away fans in the sky.

Having away fans behind the goal definitely adds to the atmosphere, and anyone who is feeling down should just Google the Everton fans at Anfield when Sigurdsson scored there in the cup.

If the lockdown showed us anything, it's that football is boring when there is zero atmosphere inside the stadium, and every pundit who said Everton would be better off without fans at Goodison is nothing but a fraud.

Brian #107.

I read recently that Salad will be asking for £500k per week when his next contract is up for renewal in a couple of years time. Now I doubt very much that the RS will pay him this, so could he be on his way out?

I also saw a link last week that Real Madrid have an annual wage bill at over a staggering £600M.

The following link shows the breakdown for each squad member. I obviously don't know if it's accurate or not, but there are rumours that Madrid could be his next destination. This link also states that Madrid's annual wage bill is just over £219M, nowhere near £600M.

Question being though, will Madrid pay a 30-year-old £500k PW?

https://salarysport.com/football/la-liga/real-madrid/

I think Real Madrid's next big money earner will be Mbappe who has said that he has told PSG that he wants to leave, and although Real offered PSG £170 million in the last window, they turned it down. But in January, he can sign a pre-agreement with any club he chooses and he can leave for nothing in the summer.

I have no idea why PSG turned the offer down given the circumstances but, if they thought Mbappe would change his mind, which he hasn't, that could be one of the most expensive decisions in football.

Andrew @106: Okay, I take your point.

However, my point really is about exaggeration. LFC and the media commentary surrounding them tend to be replete with it. It's a bit like ‘Peter cried wolf', in that truth and fantasy blur into each other. When LFC do something very good, it becomes the best thing since sliced bread, and when something unfortunate happens to them it's the worst thing that ever happened and the whole world (or Jordan Pickford) is to blame.

Klopp talks so much drivel that when he does talk sense you've stopped listening by then. Similar with pundits in the media. There's so much shite spoken that it's difficult to take them seriously generally.

Re Salad, the goal was brilliant, and he's top class, but he's no Messi or Ronaldo, and to claim otherwise is typical of what's said about a player in top form who happens to play for LFC. The media do nothing to discourage the exaggeration, and everything to encourage it. It's all rather childish and tedious.

Derek #105….totally agree. And the PR machine went up ten notches when the vile, exploitative FSG took over.

I seem to remember them having Rodgers and Rush et al – the usual mob – out laying wreaths somewhere (everywhere). No other team in England gets near them. They have fingers (whole hands more like) in every pie, in every corner of the print, broadcast and social media.

They are so vain, and so bothered about their image they've had their last two managers get new teeth and Klopp has even had his eyes done. Add that to the unbelievable amount of luck the bastards get and they're truly despicable.

Tony Abrahams. All the more reason to put the away fans up in the gods at Bramley-Moore Dock and, as I continually bang the drum about, preferably behind a Perspex screen so the noise is minimal. Breathing and ventilation optional come derby days (joking) probably. 😆

Stan, I understood your heavy irony in addressing Chris Sutton in the manner you did on his hyperbolic claims football pundits are given to.

It's a ploy to generate reaction. Clicks. Likes. Thumbs up. Whatever.

To claim now or at any time that Salah is better than Messi or CR7 is ill-considered nonsense of the highest order.

The media is full of their supporters, even though practically none were born in this area. Henry Winter and Oliver Holt are both fans... add to that Dunn and Bascombe and that covers most of the daily papers.

Most TV pundits also are their fans, who constantly tell us what a great club they are, while not dwelling on the misdemeanours their fans commit.

Strange you wouldn't think this wonderful club with brilliant supporters had gone 32 years without winning the domestic league title. I couldn't imagine that happening to any of the truly great clubs, but that's overlooked because UEFA were so desperate to make money that they changed their rules to allow 4 clubs from most of the top leagues to enter what was known as the European Cup.

And they also had the audacity to change the name to the Champions League which it patently wasn't. So, if the now Champions League still only allowed Champions to enter, then the club who hadn't won the domestic league for 32 years may not have had the status they now have.

But, having said all that, our record in qualifying for this tournament, apart from the banned years, is a disgrace.

Jay (115),

Absolutely true about Chris Sutton, another Robbie Savage. Much better to totally ignore them. They love being in the public eye and they are not alone, dozens of them in the media with not an ounce of talent between them.

Agree with the Sutton views. My opinion of him is worse, and I'm not being insular or paranoid here – for whatever reason, he just doesn't like Everton. It's about as blatant as it can be. What did we ever do to him?

I don't think you're joking, Brian, definitely not!

I couldn't understand two things about that Mbappe offer, Brian: Real Madrid offering that amount of money, and PSG saying No.

It also made me wonder about FFP, because it wasn't that long ago that PSG looked to be getting weighed down by it, and surely it can't be long before the same thing happens to Real Madrid when you read about their current debt?

On an unrelated note anyone else picked up on this story?

Park Ji-Sung Asks United Fans to Stop Singing Offensive Song

My curiosity got the better of me and I searched out the lyrics. The ditty not only works in an insulting Asian stereotype, but throws in one against Scousers too for good measure.

'Park, Park, wherever you may be
You might eat dogs in your own country
But it could be worse, you could be Scouse,
Eating rats in a council house. '

Oh, what charming scallies they are.

What's even worse about the media love in with all things red is how blatantly contrived it is. Last week couldn't read a sports page without coming across an article on how under rated Salah was. Yep, the guy who won last season fans player of the season award along with 60 other personal awards (thanks Wikipedia). This week it's a barrage of him being better than Messi. Funniest one is that even at Chelsea he was better than Messi, but only in training. The intent being to make sure he wins the Ballon d'Or.

Peter, a funny thing about Salad is that last season when his form was a bit up and down and Liverpool lost a sequence of home games, some reds I know were saying he could ‘fuck off' with his attitude of negotiating for higher pay. But at the moment he's the Messiah.

Sometimes ToffeeWeb has a lot of posts criticising our players when our form drops, but I've checked out Liverpool fan sites, and they are much worse. A player will never walk alone, so long as he's playing well.

At least with us, when a player is on good form he's good but not the Messiah, and when he's on bad form he's just a very naughty boy.

Jay (115) - "To claim now or at any time that Salah is better than Messi or CR7 is ill-considered nonsense of the highest order."

Sorry but I strongly disagree. In pure footballing terms, right this moment, if I was managing a team for a game tonight and had the option of picking between Cristiano Ronaldo and Mo Salah then I would pick Salah. No doubt that Ronaldo in his pomp was a better player than Salah is in his, but that's not the question - it's about how they are measuring up right this moment.

Stan #122 - very good! Today you're a Messiah.

Tomorrow...?

How can anyone in their right mind compare Salah to Messi??

Sure, Salah has become a scoring machine akin to Shearer, Rooney, Ronaldo etc, but as an all-round player, Messi is in a class of his own and has been since he was a 17-year-old.

True, Messi is in the twilight of his career, as is Ronaldo, and Salah did score an exceptional goal on Sunday, as many strikers do on occasions, but people like Sutton shouldn't get carried away with stupid comments.

Let's not forget, Salah was basically a flop at Chelsea and Roma before joining Liverpool.

Andros Townsend is better than Messi and Ronaldo at this moment in time, isn't he? So much energy expended about a player who plies his trade on the wrong side of the park, because some pundit made a debatable claim about his talent and here on an Everton fan forum of all places.

Andrew, yes, that's right, current form is important and should be recognised as such. On that basis, Gray and Townsend would also be candidates.

The substantial point is one of a broader representation of quality, rather than of particular episodes of good form. That is the basis of how we assess the broader quality (‘genius', ‘world class', ‘journeyman', etc) of each player. On this basis, Messi, Ronaldo, Pele, Cruyff, Best, Puskas, Dean and the like are legends for all time. In comparison, Salad and his comparables are at a lower tier of quality, and it's not really appropriate to be mentioning them in the same way as the all-time legends. That's where the LFC exaggeration of a player has crept in yet again.

Similar exaggeration is unfortunately used for LFC as a club, where media adulation of them could give the uninformed the impression they'd won loads of stuff in the modern era (the Premier League and Champions League), when in fact they haven't and the centre of British football has been and still is mainly in Manchester and to a lesser extent London.

The problem is partly to do with broadcast media and its popular culture images, which extend beyond football, for example its constant comparison of the British physicist Hawking with the likes of Einstein, when in fact Hawking is somewhat down the pecking order, both the pecking order of British physicists and the more global pecking order. It's no doubt a problem made worse by social media with its uninformed opinions. Where Messi equates to Einstein, Salad equates to Hawking.

Stan I agree. I think we all remember how empty their YNWA motto was when Karius was left to do exactly that.

And that, Andrew @ 123, is your subjective opinion which cannot be proven one way or the other.

The older-by-seven-years Ronaldo has 5 goals in 6 games since joining Man Utd late in the transfer window after 12 years away from the club.

Salah has 9 in 9, playing his 4th season with a team, team mates and system he is totally familiar with.

Barely a wafer between them then on the stats.

CR7 is a phenomenon, even in the autumn of his career. Messi is adjusting to a completely new footballing environment and culture outside Barcelona for the first time in his life.

Salah is a fine player. He scored a good goal (not a great 'goal of the ages') on Sunday. Personally, I thought Man City's defending was very shabby on that play.

But because he had a half-decent weekend elevates him to currently being 'the best player in the world'...?

If you want to give credence to Chris Sutton's hyperbole, feel free to do so.

I don't. I won't.

The argument as to who is the best player in the world is pointless because it's purely subjective and is only had about attacking players. How can you compare a great striker to a great keeper or centre-half? It's all just pub talk.

I find it somewhat disconcerting that rather than engage with what Chris Sutton said - which is sadly a viewpoint that anyone with severely blue-tinted spectacles just cannot and will not be prepared to stomach - several posters on here would rather extrapolate from it an argument that they feel that they can more adequately defeat. Straw man anyone?

Sutton is not claiming (and neither am I) that Salah will be remembered as an empirically better player than Messi or Ronaldo. He is not putting up their all-time stats to compare, or referencing their team-mates, or how long they have been at their club, or been playing in a particular league. He is not digging down deep into a comparison of the 3 players over their careers. He is simply saying that right now Salah is the one who he thinks - in this moment - is "the best".

Of course it's subjective, Jay. And reducing it to being "ill-considered nonsense of the highest order" is your own subjective opinion. I find Sutton's subjective opinion to be interesting, while I find yours to be blinkered and without much merit at all.

Oh, and if stats are worth mentioning and there is "barely a wafer between them (CR7 and Salah)", then it must be relatively sensible to ask who is best, no?

Andrew, but Sutton is saying it against a background of incessant media exaggeration of things concerned with LFC. That's the point, which I think you're still missing.

We all know that Salad is not in the same bracket as Messi and Ronaldo, and Sutton even mentioning any comparison, even one of the moment, smacks of this habit of exaggeration. Nothing to do with blue specs.

Andrew, Salah was actually much more dangerous in the pre-Covid era. He is still at times amazing and the Red Shite system is set up specifically for his notable skills. Consistency is required for the title of best in the world and you really need to be in undeniable form to expect a compliment from your cross town rivals.

Just because Chris Sutton says Salad is the best player in the universe, doesn't mean he is. Just as the BBC, Bingo, Sky et al say Salad's goal on Sunday was the best ever scored in the history of football doesn't mean it is. It's just an opinion.

Stan - No, I get your point, but I actually think in this instance Sutton is saying something of interest; inflated perhaps, but not total hot air.

Dale - I think Salah has been amongst the best footballers in the world for the last 4 years. He might have had moments in those 4 years where his form was better than it is right now, but I think the form of Ronaldo and Messi was significantly better whenever those moments were. Right now, there's more of an argument to say Salah is at (or even beyond) the level of Ronaldo, who despite his exemplary fitness and condition is inevitably less explosive than his younger self. Age catches up with us all after all - it's just a case of when; I think Salah is in the process of overtaking Ronaldo now. Not Messi though.

Frankly Andrew, I think what you find disconcerting is that people are putting up perfectly legitmate objective and subjetive alternative views to that of Sutton and your own.

Sutton's full comments are the following:

'At this moment in time, he's better than Messi and Ronaldo.

'His numbers have been sensational the last few seasons. To do it on that stage, which he has done for so many years, it just sums up how brilliant he is.

'Consistency is what you look for and he is doing it season after season after season where others are falling away and Liverpool still haven't signed him up.'

I don't see anybody in this thread misunderstanding Sutton's words as meaning Salah is a better player than CR7 or Messi, period.

It is understood that he is claiming Salah is better than both of them in the HERE and NOW. But what is the breadth of the timescale by which Sutton makes such a claim?

He bases that premise on his 'sensational numbers, on the big stage, over many years' and his 'consistency, year after year, while others fall away.'

Salah has been 'doing it' with Liverpool for 3-4 years. CR7 and Messi have 'done it and continue to do it' at much higher levels and greater consistency for 20 and 17 years respectively.

They have NOT fallen away. Ever. Salah did 'fall away' somewhat just last season.

Just this summer, CR7 was the Euros' top goalscorer for Portugal. Messi won the Copa America with Argentina, overhauling Pele's record of being the competition's highest ever goalscorer in doing so.

Personally Andrew, I cannot understand why you seemingly resent other posters offering sound subjective (and objective) alternative opinions to that of Sutton's given the reasons he himself offered on which he based his claims as I outlined.

It's getting into the realms of saying that he is the best player in the world...well, for this weekend, anyway.

The goal from all angles. That was great, however, re-watch it and look at the supporters' faces. I won't call them Mancs as probably 90% of them don't live there. Priceless.

Jay, what's with the CR7, can't you spell? Is CR7 the shirt and not Christian Ronaldo? Is it something like Knight to King's Bishop 3? K-KB3.

Just so I don't get my Andrews mixed up, Andrew Ellams @130, I'd broadly agree with you on the attacking player thing.

But surely Beckenbauer is up there?

And you'll activate the Keeper's union too!!

Danny @ 138. That's sort of my point but probably badly made.

Why are the great attacking players better than Beckenbauer, Maldini, Baresi, Southall, Shilton and may more? It's too much of apples vs oranges

Ask Liverpool fans who they would swap Salah for right now and I doubt Ronaldo would figure. Anyone with eyes to see can tell his pace has gone and he's avoiding contact at all costs. Messi might get a few votes but I reckon the majority would say "neither - Mo is the man". Sutton probably has a point.

The annoying thing is that when he leaves they'll just pick up another top echelon striker for relative buttons as they have for decades

If Man City were offered either Salah, Messi, Ronaldo or Lukaku right now, who would they sign?

Probably Lukaku, because they already have players who can do what Salah does and, in the case of of Foden, a player who's still got a dozen years of top level football ahead of him.

Andrew @139:

Yes, great goalies and defenders, and midfielders, might be seen as different in that their main job isn't scoring goals but helping create and stop them. I suppose scoring goals creates the most interest.

But from the viewpoint of something like elegance, players like Bechenbaur and Zidane are unbeatable.

Jay (136) - So rather than listen to what I tell you I find disconcerting you want to instead inform me of what I ACTUALLY find disconcerting. Derren Brown has made millions from his forays into mind control, and here you are doing it online for free?! While you're in there can you find out where I left the paper part of my driving licence (it's not in the bedside cabinet, I already checked).

As for resenting other posters subjective opinions - that's just not me I'm afraid. And I'm not the one who has described another's opinion as “ill-considered nonsense of the highest order.” All I have done is question why some posters are not able to stick to the essence of the argument and have decided to broaden it in order to give their subjective opinion more weight. I think that is fair, and if anything should be encouraged not silenced.

I've often watched on in horror (and sometimes sincere admiration) when you've gone to head to head with others over minor disagreements that have become epic displays of futility, so I'm going to fold this hand here. Maybe one day you'll fold early, but I doubt it'll be today.

With you Andrew. Zidane, now there's a shout Stan.

But not as good as Salad.

Sorry, that's a poor comparison. I just want to use that more.

Brian #83, I've got one of those too.

Getting back to the footy. If Jay wood's link (95) doesnt stir your blood, then this footy lark may not be for you.

Wonderful. I only saw it about an hour ago and have watch it three times already.

Going to get another shot of that now. Spectacular camera work. The field level views following the attackers is electrifying.

Chris Sutton is employed to create controversy. That is his role in life.
A stupid comment like that is designed to get everyone talking and that is what he is paid to do.

Don't feed the troll.

On the subject of the lowlife over the park who salivary assaulted the City team, does this not prove what we have said for many a year that Kopites are Gob******?

Andrew, read your own opening paragraph @ 131 again before casting aspersions towards other TWers as you do (once more) @ 143. The verbatim quote is:

'I find it somewhat disconcerting that rather than engage with what Chris Sutton said - which is sadly a viewpoint that anyone with severely blue-tinted spectacles just cannot and will not be prepared to stomach - several posters on here would rather extrapolate from it an argument that they feel that they can more adequately defeat. Straw man anyone?'

Playing at being Derren Brownism yourself there, Andrew. That and being dismissive of perfectly valid counter opinions, incorrectly labelling them as 'straw man' arguments whilst indulging in ad hominem attacks with posters rather then genuinely engage with what they've ACTUALLY said.

Me telling me what YOU think? Read the first four words of my post @ 136 you take exception to. 'Frankly Andrew, I think...'

I'm offering my opinion on the above quoted paragraph in which YOU engage in the very practice you accuse others in this thread of doing.

Posters HAVE stuck to the essence of Sutton's comments. He offered a subjective opinion. Others offered their own subjective opinion.

I and others have spelt it out very clearly that this is a subjective issue with no right or wrong or absolutely definitive answer.

What's your issue with that?

To repeat something I said earlier, if you want to give credence to Chris Sutton's hyperbole, feel free to do so.

I don't. I won't.

Jay (150) - I folded, fella. But you keep fighting in your phone booth if you like.

I just wonder whether any redshite-like media of 15th century Italy were going on and on about some now completely unknown painter called Salaretto having superceded the long established genius of Da Vinci and Michelangelo?

I suspect not. They'd developed way better intellect by then.

Don, Salaretto's work was remembered for 60 years, and then completely forgotten about.

On the subject of the world's great players, I had the privilege to have a long chat with Norman Whiteside in Hotel Football after Saturday's game. I asked him who was EFCs best player during his time with us – without hesitation, he replied "Neville Southall, best in the world"!

As for Salah, the man is a serial cheat and unless being compared with someone like Tom Daley, should never be talked of in the same breath as the world's greats.

Somebody's gonna die on those stairs, Brent!

Anyone know which Brighton player is in the same situation as the EFC player currently AWOL for certain allegations??

Yes, John... it's Bissouma.

John, some newspapers have published that it's Bissouma. He's active in midfield allegedly.

Dennis "Somebody's gonna die on those stairs".

Dennis, last match there with fans I passed three guys stooping and gasping for breath at level 5 on the stairs; one guy unconscious at level 8; and paramedics doing their best at level 12!

If the Saudi's are worth £302 billion, which I doubt very much, then they are going to need an awful lot of that money to buy their way out of the Championship next season.

Everton on the brink of dominance and the manager goes back to Toon. That would be so Everton. Think he's done roamin', so it's just mischievous bookies shortening odds.