The Maniac Must Be Stopped – Sack Benitez Now!

If kenwright is such an evertonian why didn't he go in the dressing room after any one of several humiliations by the hand of the RS and say this never happens again! Where is he then? Doing fuck all as per usual, counting his cash and passing the buck to someone else.

Sorry Jim, its not that I disagree with your sentiment I do but Benitez isn't the cause of this mess, he's only a symptom. Kenwright and Moshiri are the real virus here. Get those 2 meddlers out of the club and we just may start to move forward. Easier said than done I know but between them, they are most responsible for this shameful situation

Tbh, though, none of them are going anywhere :-(

The meter will start running at around 8k...and they'll want compo if they take him to the wrong place

Bill Kenwright = managed decline.

Martin Mason, what you are talking about with regards to Benitez achievements, I truly do not know. The Championship aside in 2017, he won silverware 7 years ago with Napoli.

Spot in with all the other 'if Kenwrights'.

Because this is Everton FC, not the Bridlington Bulldogs Under 8s.

I've said it many times on other threads but this could be the guy who won Liverpool the Champions League and put Everton in the Championship. Just let that sink in for a moment and think about our beloved redneck neighbours who will duly Knight the prick and have it printed on their stadium, banners and scarves for eternity.

I don't blame Benitez for it but rather the lack of action being taken to get him, Kenwright and Moshiri (as well as a host of others) out of our club.

But hey, let's not worry because, if we beat the mighty Canaries, then all will be forgotten. We are truly a dinosaur of a club run by cavemen.

Three options:

a) Keep him in role until the end of the season and focus on the search for a new DoF who will advise the board in the summer.
b) Sack him now and appoint Duncan to manage the club until the summer when a new DoF can advise the board.(offer Ferguson the job permanently or conduct an external manager search).
c) Sack him now and conduct an external manager search.

My vote is b) but I think it will a).

If option c) is chosen and we face that impossibly difficult task of hiring a new manager mid-season (the ONLY fallback excuse that Rafa supporters can muster now after 2 wins in 12 league games), I suggest that Moshiri consult the six chairman who have miraculously managed to pull of this feat this season.

If that amount of hate was aimed at me I would just walk and say you supporters get what you deserve.

Evertonians used to be amongst the most knowledgable supporters out there but the frustration of the "Kenwright" years with all the lies and deceitseems to have created a hateful, spiteful beast out of some of Goodison's faithful.

After a really good start WE have had an abnormal amount of injury to key players and VAR and officials regualrly and unfairly giving against us costing us a serious loss of points and confidence.

None of this was Benitez fault and the same people who are criticising him for eking out the rot are the same ones who have complained about the squad for years.

FFS give the man a chance. Once we have a steady upward trajectory then take stock of who could be the next man..

Its harder than you think competing in the Prem especially if the supporters are not right behind you.

I told you that you shouldn't have appointed him Farhad, they'll be turning on us next said Kenwright, nah Bill don't worry, I was ahead of the game (for once), and that's why I appointed him last summer.

Whatever his long term plans are, he needs to start producing some short term results. Pronto.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/12/rafa-benitez-tactics-at-everton/

It's clearly not working, why persist with someone who's not working? I don't want to change managers every now and then either, but if it's not working you have to pull the trigger.

1 win 3 draws 8 losses in the last 12. Which other club would keep their manager after such a barren run? I don't see many, especially not those who aim to be in the top of the league.

Steve #28. I'm with you. I'd like option B as well. Dunc until the summer, then find a progressive manager like Potter or Ten Hag. Steve Cooper of Nottingham F also looks interesting... there are plenty of up-and-coming managers out there, who'd want to manage us, so that argument of "who would replace him" is not really holding up.

It was never going to work, the appointment was doomed to fail from the off. The resulting animosity now shown towards him was plain to see, in fact, I'm surprised it has taken this long for it to turn so ugly. I though it would've happened sooner, considering his red background and snide "small-club"-jibe.

No, sack him now, and follow Steve's option B.

FSW out now!!

I know who I wanted to do that, but he's now 30 miles or so down the East Lancs Road. That said, he's moving into a consultancy role after this season. Total waste; make a cheeky move Everton. He's taken clubs from what we would call non-league to being established Bundesliga and European clubs. So not afraid to take on a challenge. We should have got him when Moyes left, or at least when Moshiri arrived.

Forget the names; the managers are not the root cause of this. Let's be honest, the malaise has existed since we last won the league and failed to build on that regardless of the injustice imposed on us. Keep blaming and changing managers and we won't change anything other than give us brief moments of optimism and short-term wins.

The problem lies higher up the food chain.

Let's start again tomorrow. El Ghazi debut goal to seal it.

I desperately wanted Christophe Galtier in the summer, but don't think we ever spoke to him. He won the league with Lille beating money bags PSG and moved in the summer were is new club is also now 2nd in the league.

It won't end well and will probably finish with him getting the sack too. Remember when Shearer was brought in as an interim to save Newcastle and they went down?

I feel the opportunity missed was Patrick Viera.

I wasn't in favour of Benitez's appointment but always thought that, he's here, get behind him, even though he's making it difficult with team selection and head scratching substitutions!
But you coming on here spouting common sense and taking a rational viewpoint will get you banned.

Good thoughtful post.👍🏻

His tactics may or may not be flawed. But the same is true for younger progressive managers like Silva.

The recurring issue is one of squad quality and squad depth.

That's why the top 4 generally comprise the 4 richest clubs - and the bottom 3 the poorest.

If you can outperform the value / quality of your squad as a manager (as Moyes so far this season) you're doing really well

It is salutary to note what is happening at other clubs which have changed their manager this season; Conte at Spurs, Rangnick at Manchester United, Gerrard at Villa, Howe at Newcastle. What do they all have in common? They have all said they need to sign new players to improve their squads. That is what Benitez is trying to do at Everton. It is what any manager would do after arriving at a club which was in sharp decline in the final months of last season and heavily dependent on a few core players staying fit.

Without the signings of Gray and Townsend we really would be in trouble this season. Benitez should be given the chance to revamp the squad before being judged on the results and performances of his players.

Link

But I can't help the feeling that he is really turning us into a small-time club. He has failed in his bullshit: we haven't seen a 10% improvement in players so far.

More than ever, we have no style of football, the football we do play is of poor quality, and the players don't seem to have any understanding of their roles within the team. It's like watching a team of mixed strangers playing for the first time together every week.

My view on Rafa wasn't prejudiced based on his Liverpool connections, more that his time was done as a coach (look at the decline of Mourinho as an example). The game has evolved again due to Pep and Klopp etc and the newer coaches coming through in Germany.

Just look at kick offs as a prime example. 5 years ago or more no defenders in the PL would be in their own box. It would all be long ball, win it from the half way line onwards (range of years may be out but you get my point!). Now, everyone in the PL is playing out from the back.

Football evolves, as does the game philosophy and style. Rafa's style may come back but right now it's outdated and not working. That's why I'd advocate a new manager who can get the best out of the players we have got.

In terms of names, even the article itself calls out Graham Potter as a replacement. I'd loved for us to have gone for someone like that to see the impact he could have on this club

Andrew. I have made this point repeatedly. Benitez is old news and so too is Mourinho. Both capitalised upon a revolution in tactics around the early part of the century. They set up teams to be defensively solid, with powerful midfielders ahead of them, a lone striker and heavily reliant upon grinding out results with counter punch strategy.

They were both successful with it. But the game has movers way beyond this now, and many years ago too.

What has Benitez achieved in the last 15 years? In the last 5 years he's been relegated and managed in China.

His success is ancient history. Look at it this way, if there was a 45 year old manager who had 5 years experience that consisted solely of - getting Newcastle relegated and then getting them back up. Then managing in China for a couple of years - would that be an acceptable appointment for a football club that wishes to find success?

1. The FIRST team is at best mid table as zero competition for places exist

2. The squad overall is relegation standard

3. Take out a good portion of the FIRST team engulfed by injury and hey presto we drop like a stone. Fuck all to do with that nebulous entity "tactics". Football doesn't have snipers on the roof covering infantry creeping up the left flank wirh diversionery action through the centre.

4. Since Adam was a lad we've been calling for evisceration of this and previous squads now it's happening fans can't cope with the expected pain.

Grow a pair. If we really want change it won't come easy give the fella the season and so be it if we get relegated

"...and a territorial retreat quickly translates to lower self-esteem. "

This can be further summarized; Negativity. This is the basis of Benitez' approach.

There's only one avenue of hope, as far as go success and the kind of football we'd like to watch. In those early games, was the relatively good football prior to injury problems an intention of Benitez, or a reflection that he hadn't yet fully put his stamp on things?

Either the return of players from injury and integration of the new arrivals gives an improvement in results and tactics/style of play, or he's gone. I give it four weeks.

re. your points 1 & 2. Would you have said that early last season, or early this season? The squad is better than that, even allowing for the player changes in this period. Management, culture, attitude, commitment are the problems.

I agree with the effect of injuries you make in point 3.

Of course Everton stats changed once injuries to key players bit and their replacements couldnt pass or hold on to the ball. We have known that for years. That is on the players not the tactics.

We also know that a team with Michael Keane in is not going to operate a high block system.

The answer to all those negative stats is change the players which is exactly what Benitez is doing.

Are any of us upset with Denarai Gray or Townshend compared to Iwobi or Bernard. Hell no.

Has Anthony Gordon been held back by tactics or are we happy with him.

Most of our problems this season have come from player errors in fact the report mentions 6 errors by Michael Keane. Is it Benitez fault that injuries to Mina and Godfrey taking such a long time to recover from Covid necessitate Keane playing every game.

Personally I wouldnt have him in a B side.

Now I hasten to add I was one of those opposed to Benitez appointment. I wanted GAltier but he was a risk too. Potter was an unrealistic target so we should stop going on about him too.

I believe Benitez singlemindedness is what the club needs right now and once we have flushed the cancer out of the club we can consider a better manager but for now I urge all Evertonians to get behind the team and the manager because "Benitez hatred" is not helping our results nor the image of our supporters.

'Nebulous entity tactics', 'snipers on the roof', 'diversionary action through the centre' and 'so be it if we get relegated.' It was just missing 'jumpers for goal posts.'

We need more of this old school wisdom, so here is some more in case Barry is busy and can't post.

Link

I believe Benitez will be here for atleast another season, unless we are firmly in the bottom 3, he aint going anywhere.

This is Everton, we have no standards.

Because we are.

Jesus, our standards have been lowered!

@Barry 54, sadly it has everything to do with tactics. If Rafa plays 5 at the back and only 2 CMs then we invite pressure onto ourselves and that's why we make more mistakes that leads to goals. If he picked the right formation for the players he had available then I'd buy your arguments more, but the last 2 matches with 5 at the back hasn't worked. He could have easily played 4 at the back with the players available and had more in midfield, but he chose not too. Hence the negativity tag.

And those formations were against the mighty powerhouses of Brighton and Hull let's not forget

Not because you are going against majority opinion - You've never been scared of doing that, but Rafa seems to go against all the things you hold dear about the club and the game.

I can only assume you think now is the time to draw a line in the sand and hope the medicine works

I've been saying it for years (as have many others) the "comfy factor" of senior pros at this club is entirely down to no challenge from the stiffs. How often has the charge of "playing when they feel like it" been levelled at Everton players going back decades?

I can't remember a discussion about who is the better of two in "x" position.

Steve 59 . mmm!! (protrudes chin)

We credit managers with far too much. Only a very select few get a club materially higher than the sum of their parts.

Many just reap the rewards of huge investment (like the conveyor belt at Chelsea) or an extremely well organised club (eg Brighton and Wolves).

Not easy to deliver success at a club that is currently skint and is beset by extremely poor wider club management.

Benitez has made awful mistakes. So do Pep, Klopp and Tuchel. Those mistakes bite them so infrequently because they almost always have miles better players than the opposition.

And much more so than Benitez, our players have made awful mistakes that cost us games we would otherwise have won.

Personally I don't even like Benitez and didn't really want him here. But I agree Barry that it's good to see someone trying to force proper squad development and some unlikely use of youth.

Okay, if you need some give from the 'keep' side, we're not proud of how the setup and style of play will advance from the primitive shit we have now. We just know there needs to be turnover and with less organisational experience of a Potter or Howe this could crash. So if you have names other than those two who are not leaving their comfy chairs let's hear them. I would be interested if Rudi Garcia would be interested but for the moment I still believe in leaving Rafa in place to complete at least an initial phase of turning over the squad. Too many have been here that cannot be motivated because they have good reason to believe the manager will be gone before their contract is up.

Rafa has made plenty of mistakes, no doubt about that but definitely not as many as the players, especially in the defensive areas, two main strikers who have hardly played together, I know I've said this all before but it all adds up to the where we are now.

I honesty think Rafa will turn it round once he gets more of his own players in and gets the whole club working together but it can't be done in six months Darren, I know quite a bit more but that can wait until Rafa either sorts it out or fails, but God help us if we are left in the same situation as the end of last season and Kenwright adding no marks, regarding football knowledge that will help the club, to his clique.

I'll still be watching, not enjoying it now but it will get worse if Benitez goes and it will make my full Everton journey from the cradle to the grave very unpleasant.

Sorry for the long reply Darren but Iknow you'll understand even if you don't agree.

Well said, Bobby.

I don't think any of us wanted him here and I'm open enough to say my personal beef DOES lie with his red history but Matt Busby transitioned his Man City association to Utd and became a legend. It would add a marvellous spice to the trick if he did similar here.

He had a great start with 2 of his 3 acquisitions making a huge difference then injuries like never before put a spanner in the works. It just seems some won't accept that fact. But the positive angle on this turn of events is he isn't pretending anymore he knows how shite we are and isn't taking prisoners trying to change it. I like it.

As fans we should send him a big cake with blue icing saying "thanks boss"

Yes, he did have bad luck with what he inherited but that was the least part of his problems, the vast majority of which were self-inflicted. The only hope is that, by another act of God, he manages to turn our fortunes around… but I have low hopes on that.

"Sacking a manager in the middle of a transfer window in which the club is investing in several new players makes no sense at all."

Best comment, best post.

I don't want Benitez, never did, but I sure as hell don't want him sacked halfway through a window in which we are finally doing timely business instead of waiting for the last 15 minutes as usual. And I sure as hell don't want him replaced by Duncan Ferguson and his one career win. (Wonder who Dunc would be signing for our midfield.)

Jay and Brian, from what I have read, Galtier has never shown the slightest interest in managing in England, or in leaving France for that matter. Right after he left Lille in May, he told L'Equipe that he was really interested only in Nice. And that's where he went.

I would love to know why you think he can turn it around? He had his own players at Newcastle... that didn't end well. He went to China and took some of his trusted players... that didn't work either.

Reading comments from his press conference today, he said our run of poor results of late have nothing to do with systems and more to do with tactics, and who is responsible for our tactics???

He will blame players and anyone else rather than himself, it's what he has always done. Alan Myers, who seems to know what happens at Everton, commented yesterday that the El Ghazi deal had no tie-up with the Digne transfer but today Benitez said it was tied-up with the Digne transfer.

He went on to talk about a playmaker in midfield, so why sign another winger if that's your priority? He also said we have balanced the books – how have we done that? Our two new fullbacks cost more than we got from Villa for Digne, plus the wages for El Ghazi, Mykolenko and Patterson will combined be more than we were paying Digne.

I heard a little bit from Gerrard's press conference where he said, as soon as they knew Digne was being sold, they did everything to get him. He then went on to talk about Digne's quality, so someone is wrong.

Also, I saw a stat yesterday which showed Digne had the most assists over the last 18 months. Mind to listen to everyone he has been woeful for exactly 18 months – not 15 not 17 but exactly 18 months – where the stats show that's not true.

I agree that there is too little drive and commitment. I'm also aware of the fact that this same group of players have performed very differently (better) in several periods in the last eighteen months. These variations in themselves prove no permanent, inherent lethargy or lack of ability in all members of the squad.

The "Comfy Factor" is a thing, be it in the club as a whole or the team/squad. There are many aspects and areas requiring improvement. At team level, the responsibility for this rests with the team manager and associated staff.

Accepting our injury problems, certain lack of squad depth and size, this doesn't excuse or justify Benitez's management so far, or recently. There is no excuse or need for the awful basic negativity as the default way we play. This over-careful approach has not even yielded "safe" results; we keep losing.

We have a squad the equal of West Ham for example. We've had the injuries – but we don't have enough excuse to be in the position we're in. This is on the team management – motivation, preparation, the set-up, the tactics, in-game management, subs etc.

"How often has the charge of "playing when they feel like it" been levelled at Everton players going back decades?"

This is to suggest all those different players in all those different teams under all those different managers are somehow all the "comfy" type. Impossible! Which suggests the deeper-rooted problems or management of management within the club – another issue altogether!

They are supposedly carrying out a review on how the club should be run overall so now would be crazy as you say. Mind you, think about who's doing the review.

We have been changing manager after manager for years.

Nothing has changed.

That tells me the manager position is not the problem. The problems lie elsewhere. How a billionaire owner cannot or will not see that is starting to be beyond my simple mind.

We'll still be at Carrow Road tomorrow. In body, in mind or in spirit.

Even if this were the case, which manager has had the worse run playing the worse football in this period?

You say Galtier has shown no interest in managing in England or in leaving France. Well, you may be right but if nobody from the Premier League asks the question, we will never know.

I wish I had a pound for people who said they would never do something but ended up doing it. He is an outstanding coach, maybe because he doesn't speak English is holding him back but Pochettino couldn't speak much English when he took over Southampton but managed to turn them around.

I can't think of another coach who would have won their national league and walk away as he felt he had taken them as far as he could. Most coaches would have demanded and got a doubling of their salary and wanted the contract for 5 years. But he has such faith in his ability he takes over at Nice now they are in 2nd place in the league and challenging PSG for the title – just like he did with Lille.

"the wages for El Ghazi, Myelenko and Patterson will combined be more than we were paying Digne."

Digne was making 119K/week. We are paying El Ghazi 15, Patterson 28, Mykolenko 58 for a total of 101K/week.

Regarding Digne's assists, the various time frames can be deceptive, but I think the most relevant statistic is this: In his last 20 games for us, he assisted on one goal.

Ironically, it was a corner kicked targeting DCL last May against Villa... the game in which we were beaten at home by some guy named El Ghazi.

Regarding your post #83, I assume that with his record of success, Galtier has been pursued by lots of clubs from different countries. I cannot factually state that one of them was us. What I can state, because I researched it last summer, is that there has never been a published report indicating that he was ever interested in a job outside France.

Hey, Mike - you've uncovered the whole secret of the club's long-term scouting strategy.

Time will tell, and as all you want is the best for our club, I truly hope you turn out to be 100% correct!

Is it any wonder that Dignes assists have gone through the floor when Benitez said he wanted him to be more defensive than he had been, so obviously his stats in the last 20 games where most were under Benitez. Look at his assists stats before Benitez came and then tell me about selective time frames.

The club is rotten to the core imo, and not many people who were already at the club, seem to want to really help this manager, for whatever reason, and that just about sums it up.

Maybe it's because his reputation precedes him, and he's also not wanted because of his Liverpool connections, but if this is the case, then many people connected to Everton, feel more duty towards themselves, rather than our once great football club imo, but I honestly think that's been obvious for a very long time, unfortunately.

Personally, I think it had less to do with coaching than injury. I believe he never recovered from that bad ankle injury in November 2020.

The more you write the more I will read, so don't ever feel you need to apologise for the length of your response. Not to me

I knew you wouldnt duck the question and I knew there wasnt a short answer.

Everyone connected with the club is at fever pitch at the moment. I think the pressure on Rafa is immense.
He is, I believe, quite literally living from game to game.
As you know, time is not a luxury afforded to the modern day manager. One false move and he could be out. He has to get it right and he has to keep getting it right. Big, big ask

I think the club should either back him (Guarantee him at least year) or sack him (now)

Having succeeded in the largest most useless net spend in Premier League history (as far as I know) they still have a training ground with way more than a few lumps of dead wood in it but are now unable to even try to spend their way out of it, and that's why they think they need the dinosaur Raffas Benitisaurus.

To me his job is merely to keep us from relegation. The quality of football means zilch to Moshiri and his boardroom. They're in it to sponge a profit from the new ground to boost their personal finances and to hell with anything demanded by the fans.

Tony@93
I suffer from eternal and totally irrational hope in all things Everton.

Looking at the fixtures coming up, we have to be taking 5 or 6 points from the next 3 games because, if we don't, then we are in big trouble and we will need the current Bottom 3 to remain consistently shit to keep us up.

Benitez cannot help this club. What are we going to do if we stay up? Call him a hero? Are we going to fly flags in blue and white in the unlikely event that he wins us a trophy? Are we going to sing his name?

My Arse to any of that because he is a busted flush who landed this job purely because we have an owner who is incomprehensively stupid and we as supporters are standing watching on the deck as our club sinks.

I'm sure a few of us are grateful that we have a new stadium being built but right now I would give that away for an owner who understood football, Bill Kenwright fucking off, and a manager who knows how to get his team playing good football.

Does anybody think these three can lead us to success in the future?

He's been to less matches than your average Kopite recently
The very first thing Moshiri needs to do now is get himself front of house.

Time to take ownership and responsibilty. Time to be a leader

Epithet of the day, Don, no question.

Mike, 97 - true. Vlasic another.

With this logic, only a select few would even need a manager. The rest could be managerless, with only someone to organize things behind the scenes. I think you really have underestimated the impact a manager actually has on the team. Why do clubs spends millions on managers if they don't offer anything else than "organisizing things behind the scenes". Fetch water and balls for the players, and then let them just play how they want there out on the field.

I beg to differ. A manager means very much. A good manager even more so. Pep is a perfectionist. He craves perfection from his players on the pitch. FSW does not, and it shows. Pep would most certainly make us a top four team. No, managers play more part than you think, and FSW is failing miserably to make our parts a larger whole sum.

FSW out now!

And I'll add two more. Didn't both Lennon and Cleverley score against us in the season before we signed them?

a good post. The manager however needs the right environment and support, the freedom, beyond just the money.

Kevin Prytherch was hammered a few days ago for comparing Holgate favourably with our other defenders. It is clear that he is not the most culpable for our leaky defence.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/al-rayyan/story/4569350/james-rodriguez-thanked-for-saving-ex-mali-international-ousmane-couliablys-life

Either way, defence needs work!

However I don't think FSW would succeed however much support he would get. His tactics and man-management is outdated. But I can agree that he has done some good things during his time here. Things are never black and white...

He did bring in Gray and Townsend who, especially Gray has been a revelation. He has given Gordon gametime, although it was forced, but when he saw the quality/mindset of Gordon, he has kept him in the side, which is good.

I can't fault the selling of Digne, but I think the matter was handled abysmally by FSW, publically castrating him. Selling him was right though, while he had a resale value. And for that money he has brought in two hopefully future great fullbacks. So I don't think everything he has done is shit.

However his tactics, gameplans and motivationalskills are... He's clearly past it, which is why we now have gone 12 with one win.

So basically the question is, do we prefer the "ruffling of feathers", or do we want to win games and play a football that is nice on the eye?

Personally, I think the "ruffling" can be made while playing good football. But to achieve that we need a DoF to do the "ruffling" and a good progressive manager to do the "managing". That seems far away right now though, and because of that the sacking of FSW seems the only way to influx some new energy to this deflated squad.

FSW out now!

Holgate is the whipping boy of a dozen or so posters on this site, They are on the LF every week blaming him for goals we havent conceded yet, or goals in games he didnt even play in.
Challenge them to list mistakes he as made leading to goals and they turn all Harpo Marx.

You tube seems to have curbed their enthusiasm.

And I think a good progressive manager like Potter, Ten Hag could make this team top six also. If Moyes can make West Ham top six, why wouldn't a good manager be able to do that with us? I think the quality of the squad is quite similar to West Hams...

If those who wish to insist on that shitty narrative want to supply some time marks of the presser where Rafa personally insulted Digne I will be happy to check it out and recant. Over to you Harpae.

LOL! It's not all bad being an Evertonian.

What leads you to think that other than blind faith or fear of the alternative though, Dave?

I get wanting to ‘break the cycle' and move away from managerial change after managerial change, but if you're going to stick resolutely by one man who has been placed in charge you don't just plumb for the guy who has been stinking the place out to such a degree he's breaking unwanted record after unwanted record and proving more worthy of the ‘worst manager since Mike Walker' moniker than any of his post-Moyes predecessors.

Beyond the bloke himself trotting out a bit of tried and tested ‘new manager speak' (“We want to improve in every department”) and saying eighth place means nothing to him (even though he'd rip your hand off for it right now), what else has he brought to the table to suggest standards could potentially soar under his sovereignty? A fairly decent start that faded faster than Michael J Fox from a Mcfly family photo? This ‘great' opening to the campaign and the level of ‘improvement' Benitez claimed every Evertonian could see has been overegged nearly as much as it's subsequent derailment being due solely to injuries. Performances were still all over the place, players still looked disorganised and unprepared, the defence still looked extremely vulnerable and I don't think it could be claimed we comprehensively outplayed anybody.

All I see are people tying themselves in knots trying to defend the sort of piss-poor run of results not seen since Bilko told Private Doberman to shuffle the fucking deck and I just do not get it. Amateurishly dire displays, week after week, being repeatedly brushed aside as though barely of relevance and the continued projection onto Benitez of this most coveted characteristic of somehow being inherently capable of changing the mentality of those under his charge….simply by being a charmless, self-aggrandising, abrasive prick. Worked wonders so far hasn't it?

The only evidence of any sort of attitude-shift being engendered at his behest is a slide from ‘bang average and inconsistent' being the accepted Everton ethos, to ‘approaching each game like a mewling minnow, minus any semblance of a strategy or plan, complete with collective arse muscles collapsing before 5 minutes are even on the clock' becoming firmly entrenched as the new exemplar.

To listen to some, Benitez is Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder in ‘Stir Crazy' all rolled into one:

“He don't take nooooo shit, no shit Rick. Oh look, there he is right now. Pure winner, big name, balls of steel, commands respect, rocking down Caldy beach on his way to bash those lazy underachieving fuckers at Finch Farm firmly into shape….Go ‘ed Rafa, lad! They won't know what's hit them.

He's already sorted out the medical department and rumour is he's since moved on to tackling other personnel who have been bringing the club down. It's all about standards with ‘Rafa'. Proper fired into a lass from the canteen yesterday, telling her ‘From now on I want you to put an equal amount of blueberries in each muffin. An equal amount of blueberries. In each muffin', and when she said ‘Do you know how long that's going to take?', ‘Rafa' simply replied ‘I don't care. An equal amount of blueberries in each muffin' and stared the bitch down”.

Woah, woah, woah, wait on a minute….wasn't that Ace Rothstein in Casino?

“Nah, was it bollocks. Benitez that, lad. Asked her if she thought a muffin packing less than 16 blueberries would ever find it's way into Peter Reid's mouth. Boom! No comeback to that, is there? Peter Reid wouldn't piss on a non-moist muffin. Sloped off with tears in her eyes and her card well and truly marked.

Brilliant it was. Ruthless. Just what this club has been missing. Heard she's not been seen round the place since the school phoned to say they think it's best if they cut her work experience short with immediate effect. Weeding them all out he is…and people want to whine on about only winning one game out of twelve, or conceding the first goal in 15 out of 21 games and 8 in a row? Pathetic.”

What does "one of Lewis's" mean?

I'm waiting until the end of February to see if there is any progress, yes I think there will be, is that too much to ask John, we've been waiting for the last twenty seven years, nearly, to win something surely you can wait another six weeks, if it goes the way you think it will then you can go off on one of your posts and give us all a good laugh. I hope you don't have to.

Pukki running behind the defence can trouble us. If Cantwell is available, he is dangerous.

Come on, Sr Benitez. Stop the talk. Stop the machinations. Get the team organised. Win a football match.

Two very good questions.

As for those who suggest Duncan. He would not want the job. Why would he give up his secure job, for a job he would be out off wihin a year?

Without a shadow of doubt every club in the prem would have sacked a manager with the results that we have endured.

In his defence the purse strings are pulled. Sigurdsson! injuries to key players. Signing Gray and Townsend.

Inexcusable are his tactics with our injuries, defending at set pieces have fallen apart compared to last year. Rondon.

Most importantly he has split a fan base. I have never experienced such a low atmosphere at the game.

He has to go.

There are plenty of managers out there who would jump at the chance of managing the blues.

It just so happens that the 1 person that can sack him isn't arsed about the football. He is more interested in washing his roubles.

Just let it happen; the daft old fool will surely hang himself. No rush, sit back and enjoy and await the anointed or, er, Duncan.

It's a matter of time, you know.

I've heard the rouble washer isn't very happy, and if the rouble washer isn't happy, how else is Moshiri going to find the money for Bramley-Moore?

Bramley-Moore, the ground that is going to change everything, although I've got no excitement for the place right now, and actually feel like that kid on work experience@129.

I've heard we might be appointing another old-boy very soon, and although he's never actually kicked a ball for Everton, he's definitely been very good for “our saviour” down the years, which is probably the best thing a man wanting a job at Everton, needs on his CV.

But this season, this current run, is different. Currently, there are no reassuring patterns or trends that things can quickly change for the better.

One win in 12. Six points from a possible 36. Several of those games against teams we should be beating, never mind merely drawing. Even with considerable mitigating circumstances and the many injuries we have suffered, it doesn't have a good look.

Unlike in previous seasons I simply have no idea if we will win a game against any opposition currently. I agree with those who say managers at other clubs on such putrid runs as Rafa Benitez is enduring would have been shown the door by now.

And yet, there is absolutely no indication that Farhad Moshiri is thinking like that, whereas previously he hasn't been shy or slow in pulling the trigger.

Brands was sacrificed, not Benitez. Benitez was preferred over Digne in the manager-player shoot out. Benitez is being backed in this January window, a window we don't traditionally do much business in.

A manager under threat would not be allowed such largesse unless the owner intends to stand by him.

It's an extremely high risk gamble, given this season's events.

The Brentford cup tie aside (and that too has enormous importance), our next 3 PL games are away to Norwich, home to Villa, away to Newcastle. A defeat in any of those games. The points swing against us in favour of the victor. No matter how much Moshiri is standing by his man now, today, we would be entering the 'position untenable' zone with regards to Rafa Benitez.

We need wins. NOW! Starting tomorrow. Benitez is under huge pressure if defeats, rather than wins, continues.

What makes you think I have a mortgage? I am best mates with Morishi, he lent me the cash for my house! However in return he has asked that I don't report him to the tax man and make recommendations on Iranian strikers to cover DCL.

Seriously though, no I wouldn't bet my mortgage on it as I'm not stupid. However nobody will convince me that Norwich won't beat us, not after how many goals we concede, especially from set pieces. Just watch.

Rafa out.

You might say Mr. Benitez has got a huge ego, I've never met him, but people who have and know the man tell me if he's in a company talking about football he pays attention to everybody and listens to what they say and engages with them.

I keep saying it but I will stick with him until he leaves me with egg on my face and then I'll put my hands up and admit I was wrong about him.

I think that Benitez truly cares about this club and its future. Why on earth would he have come here otherwise? He needs none of our money, he knows that a significant portion of our fans despise him, he knows that our players aren't very good.

When I say that he cares about us, I don't mean that he dwells lovingly upon our history or that he summons the glorious ghost of Alex Young. I mean that he wants us to start to be serious and to prepare ourselves to win things. He sees us as a challenge, precisely because he knows how deep the problems are. I think he knows there are some who cloak themselves in the sentiment but who don't give a fuck about anyone other than themselves.

It could all evaporate tomorrow but I don't think he's a shallow manager, and I think he deserves better than we have chosen to give him as fans. Have we ever chanted his name or given him any credit, at any point? No.

If we're not careful, we're going to dream and scream ourselves into oblivion.

I didn't want Benitez, believe his CV given his resources is shocking, have seen how many teams he has left in a dire state, believe his transfers throughout his career have been pretty dreadful so was interested to see if any predetermined bias is now affecting my judgment.

Because no one has given me any better answer than Dave has given you I am left to play devils advocate.

1-With Dominic, Richarlison and Mina (three absolutely key players) missing that magnitude of games I think we would only just be about top half whoever the manager is. We are probably only two or three wins of where we should be given these factors hence Benitez second half of the season remark. If Dominic was mainly fit the table would be a lot more favourable to cover up all our deficiencies.

2-If Gray was Benitez (not a Brands) signing then he has no doubt been electric so far and Townsend has been decent for a free

3-The team look fitter than last season

4-Once behind we look at least to have shown some character in games. Under Ancelotti when in front we would nearly always win games but when behind we looked like we had no answers.

5- Benitez does seem at least have a plan to take the club forward. Under Ancelotti we needed a right back, right winger and midfield sorted out and we never really fixed any. Benitez has brought in pace which was lacking, has a decent front three now even though they haven't really played together, addressed the right back issue and will look to balance the midfield area. He seems to be putting round pegs in round holes, it's just whether they are good pegs which is the question.

6- Benitez has brought in two full backs that if his judgement is spot on will be around for the next ten years. He seems to be putting the future of the club above his ego unlike Ancelotti. He is doing a different job to the Italian whose remit as he seen it was purely short term results. Benitez looks to want to marry the two of getting results and progressing the club long term.

Sorry John that's all the possible positives I could see and even those need a little bit of wishful thinking. The shit prehistoric football, very few players improving while many struggling, poor basics, dire subs, dreadful formations, dreadful tactics and his intransigence will surely mean that his downfall is a matter of if not when.

Even in Silva's annus horriblous there were a lot of factors that made you think this guy had a lot of things go against him that if he had have got an extra few results and we weren't so perilous that he may be worth sticking with. Under Benitez it is really hard to make that case with what's occurring on the pitch.

Andy@160-on another thread posters thought I was off my rocker because I couldn't care if Allan went or not. The main reason I come to that view is that I don't feel we are relegation candidates. Despite how dreadful the season has been we are still only about eleven points from safety.

In the next three games if we get five points Benitez will be safe and we will be well on our way. If he fails another will come in and will have an instant uplift.
Just having Dominic play in half the remaining games will see a dramatic difference to our points total.

I watched Brighton dominate Palace tonight the visitors had Gallagher,Elise, Eduard and Benteke who could all pop up with a goal. Brighton should have been out of sight but had to rely on an own goal to get a point. We have Richarlison,Calvert Lewin and Grey who will win games despite the manager.

Things are awful but we will be playing Premier League Football next season.

In previous seasons I was always confident, in bad runs, based on our own form and that of other teams over the season, that we held our destiny in our own hands. This season, that isn't the case. We are relying on other teams to 'do us a favour.'

The one saving grace I can find at the moment is that there really are three worse teams than us sitting in the bottom 3 places. Burnley, Newcastle and Norwich.

Even now in the accumulative 56 games those 3 teams have played they have only managed 4 wins between them. One less than the paltry 5 Everton has won in our 18 games. But as I already said, that they remain in those positions is dependent on them not improving, rather than being confident our results will improve as I was in previous seasons.

Sean Dyche does great work at Burnley given his resources, but they struggle to score goals and are building up a heavy backlog of fixtures with postponed CV-19 impacted games.

Eddie Howe has not got a 'bounce' out of Newcastle and along with Norwich have the worst defence in the league. Their signings in this window are a bit 'meh' and far from the megastars the fan base was expecting.

Norwich look, as you yourself wrote, as poor a side the PL has ever seen.

We now have as near as damn it a full squad to pick from. Yes, some need match fitness. The new boys will need to be bedded in. But Rafa now has no excuses.

His signings to me hint of a plan, a method. He has reinforced the flanks, both in defence and attack, with more youthful, pacier, aggressive players. I presume this is with the intention to feed the likes of Dom and Richy (if fit).

What nags at me is Rafa has a reputation for being parsimonious with his teams set up well defensively to not concede. He inherited a set-up which the Ancelotti's quickly put right: the defensive side of our game with effective zonal marking. We stopped conceding cheap goals from easy balls into the penalty area and from corners and free kicks. That has evaporated under Rafa.

Yes, he has been restricted in what he can do with injuries, but even so overloading the defence whilst vacating the midfield has demonstrably hurt us, yet he persists with it.

Tomorrow will tell us a helluva lot. The selection. The tactics. And above all else, the result. Norwich have lost their last 6 PL games without scoring a single goal and conceding 16. Lose tomorrow and the warning klaxon horns will be sounding loud.

I done a bit of reading (mostly Wikipedia admittedly) and ironically, there are more than a few parallels to his manoeuvres now and what he done you know where.

He probably won't be the one still around to see that through, but he could be the one to upset the apple cart so to speak and set the next incumbent up for a smoother path for success. I keep saying it, if he can just create real change and wake the owner up, that will be enough for me from a manager I didn't want.

He made some good signings mind. Convinced Gerrard to stay, Alonso & Torres. Also wanted Barry but the board went and bought Robbie Keane against his wishes.

Who'd have thought; boardroom interference in transfers?!!

Properly empowered DoF please.

That's the spirit Brian. Wembley it is and I don't care who the manager is!!

The fact is that Rafa has inherited the problems all others tried to trade past or scapegoat away. We don't have any moves other than what Rafa is admittedly clumsily making way through. I'm not sure many others would be bothered to do the business, they would prefer a DoF or a suit to take the fall. Which is why the potential replacement list looks a lot like friends of Claude Rains.

Never heard of the writer, so looked him up. Alex Keble. Just another writer.

His analysis leaves out what we here know and discuss ad infinitum, Rafa's discovered, as Ancelotti found out before him.

We don't play quick, multi-pass, intricate movement forward because we don't a team of players who can do that. The "closest" thing we have to a midfield general is Gomes, for God's sake.

Forget the defense. We need young ball-skilled midfield footballers. The lack of which is our main problem.

We're down, I agree. The worst time to put the boot in. We DO NOT have a relegation team.

Rafa stays as we work our way out of the current situation.

Gomes, I still hope against hope. A fine player ruined by his mind and, therefore, not a fine player at all - there are plenty of those.

It can be cured, though, and I am sure that even our disgraceful manager is not unaware. Ball-skilled? Yes, but primarily we need a couple of hard types who can move quickly enough.

Not really sure on what midfield players would be available, but I agree, we really need to clear out midfield and rebuild it

Silva got badly let down by Brands imo, but he was headstrong, he carried on trying to play a high line, with players who find it near-impossible, and I personally this area of the pitch is the biggest sticking point for Benitez, three seasons later.

Well, a modern 4-3-3. Almost 4-3-2-1; a point striker with 2 wider players either side slightly behind, which gives you a bit of width.

Martin, that's not particular to Everton. It's a modern phenomenon with the generation of fans that have grown up in the Sky frenzied pundit driven era.

Sorry to stereotype and I know there's always been that "shite Everton" bloke in the crowd and also some very educated young supporters. But in recent years, general consensus has been if a club wins it's great, if they lose it's shite and sack the manager. If Everton lose but play well, I won't boo them.

I know football is and always has been about results, but less and less people judge performances and look at the football these days in my opinion. They just want the result. We all do, but hopefully I'm making some kind of sense.

Pickford pulled off some great saves to keep us in the game. Only Gordon and Gray looked like they wanted to impact the game.

Cast your mind back to Chelsea away. The fans backed the players 100% and that was only a draw!

The fans can vent as much as they like. We aren't soft, we are watching truly awful football served up by an ex red that has a history against us. What do people expect?

I don't recall too man red shites taking the piss last year under Ancelotti. Fear was creeping in amongst them. Just a shame Moshiri pulled the purse strings as it I think Carlo could be have given us a fighting chance against the big boys. Fast forward 12 months and look at the shit show we are witnessing.

Winning papers over an awful lot of cracks. Once / if we start winning I expect the calls to sack the manager to simmer in the background.

Dave 159, Tony 164.
I really do hope that your right and the rest of us are over reacting. I am struggling to see it.

Usually at this time of year a team sinks like a stone whilst the relegation fight hots up. I hope that we are at the bottom of a bad run and we can now start picking up results. I am not even bothered how we do it.

Once we are safe we can all look forward to more of the same next season and the new 28 campaign.

We keep targeting the wrong target; the manager.

If we go with Ferguson Dave, I predict our very own Solskaer / Lampard scenario, but maybe not as long.

Keep the tradition and brand. Change the culture and mentality.

I know the league table does not echo this but he has done a fantastic job with Derby this season he has clawed back the minus points he was dealt and if they were playing in a normal situation they would be in play-off contention.

Him and Big Dunc are like Granite and will take no bull from anyone and the one think that this team needs is a good old fashioned arse-kicking, not snidey digs at players, like Benitez.

Moshiri is a rank amateur in the hardest league in the world and Kenwright is... well, Kenwright – a good cry and everything will be okay. I'm not a psychiatrist but I think Freud would have struggled to make sense of him.

There are some very knowledgeable people on here and I could see a book "How to run a football club in the Premier League from an Evertonian viewpoint" would be a best seller and tiny tears could put on a West End show on how two clowns can demolish a football Institution he could play the white one with the big pointed hat.

But I don't think changing managers again is the solution to change. Real change.

Rooney is interesting. I just hope if he is to be a future Everton manager, he gets time to prove himself and we get time to assess his suitability.

And that will be unpalatable for some as it will mean our current manager weather's the storm.

And wins th FA Cup.

That's exactly what we would be doing by appointing Ferguson. Everton have never been successful without an ex player at the helm. Not ever... And we have never won a brass Razoo with one of the many Flavour of the Month charlatans.

I simply don't understand the clamour for costly parasites whose failure is infinitely predictable. They have always, always fallen way short of the adequate Nor do I understand the determination of some to decry the only thing which has ever succeeded.

This club doesn't just need a leader who doesn't mind the occasional win. It needs somebody who really cares and has a burning desire to win.

Everton FC will never be successful until the board and the fans remember who and what we are.

I fully appreciate your sentiment and it's not something I do at the game during it, but can you blame the fans for booing? Since Moyes left, and you can argue Martinez's first season, we have witnessed utter dire football and more to the point, losing football. We have gone from being competitive to being whipping boys.

When we should have been looking for an upgrade on Moyes, someone to take us to the next level, Kenwright went for a relegated manager and it's just gone downhill from there. We are back to how we were in the late '90s – rudderless, playing bland losing football and looking a million miles away from being competitive.

The frustration at the owner and deadweight chairman allowing this to happen again is palpable. Allied to the fact Liverpool are winning again, then you have a recipe for no patience from some fans. It's criminal we are back in this state... 27 years without a trophy, no real prospect of gaining one any time soon.

Sorry, Danny, I admire your optimism that, come May, we will be at Wembley (I do hope you're right but I just can't see it), it's a shit state of affairs and the fans are the least of the problems. They should be commended for packing the Old Lady every game and also the long-suffering away fans.

Give us a team that cares and the fans will respond. Give us a bunch of mercenaries, most of whom couldn't give a shit and go through the motions, and this is what you deservedly get.

Cheers

Are you still prepared to give him more time?

There are some people who have made comments above who will feel foolish but will never admit it. They will return once again to slag off the next good opinion, like they have always done.

I just hope we can find 7 more Premier League wins. Benitez won't so good luck to his replacement.