Moyes says he was 'very close' to rejoining Everton

However hindsight is a wonderful thing and frankly I'd have taken Moyes back before we brought Allardyce in back in 2017.

He's not a championship winning manager Moyes but he's a fantastic day to day manager that gets his team's well organised and has a good eye for a transfer as he's proven at West Ham.

The return of Moyes would have been greeted with dismay by some but I doubt we would be in the pickle we are in currently. Who knows, we might even be enjoying a run in the Europa League and the luxury of a place in the top half of the table. Instead we can enjoy the thrill of a relegation battle.

Moyes done a good job at Everton. He stabilised us and got us to the brink of achieving something but didn't have the ability to take us that step further.

For those who claim what he could have done with money and funds, well he proved that after Everton with some spectacular failures including a relegation.

Even now with his second West Ham coming, although doing well, he is doing what he does; when expectation is on, he plays it down to detract from actually trying to win something.

He's a decent manager for a club that doesn't expect to win anything. If that's what you want, he's your man.

We're related by the way. Our Grandfathers were brothers.

If only the board would have backed him.

There lies the eternal problem at Everton. We keep blaming managers.

Not me. We're Everton. Believe it and realise it. Everton Football Club. 9 times league champions. 10 before my time is done. If anything because I don't like odd numbers!!

A week as they say is a long time in politics and the same for football if the right calls are made on and off the pitch. That's what's so sad and frustrating with this club.

Okay, we can't get back that half a billion but, with proper scouting (Purdy anyone?) we could rise again. I honestly think this club is terrified of success so employ safe people who don't ask questions.

Change the culture. Leave the nostalgia to fools like me!

See you at West Ham or United?

Might not sound too dramatic but I knew we was on the verge of something special. Just needs belief and some inspired shrewd signings it could happen again.

I hope Moyes wins in Europe for the West Ham fans, but I came out of the Stadium of Light on that fantastic warm night, after being amongst one of the best Everton crowds I've ever witnessed (6200 according to the Echo) and I had a feeling that the only way we could lose to Liverpool was if we beat ourselves, and that's exactly what we did.

It took me a long while to get over that Semi-final defeat, but the last couple of weeks have also been horrible, and I'm just praying the international break is not the calm before the storm.

Danny, Number 10 would be the biggest achievement by any football club in English football. I might be biased, but imagine being the only club to win the English Championship in three different centuries? It really would be something special that.

We are miles off and our worrying losses mean we couldn't invest even if we have the money.

With careful planning and a bit of luck we could make an assault on the top 4 in about 3 years.

It will absolutely not happen just by picking up the new Reid, Gray and Power.

Newcastle are likely to finish above us this season and have untold riches - and even they won't make the top 4 next season.

Without untold riches we need patience and careful planning. There us no shortcut.

That makes more sense as there was strong talk that Kenwright wanted Moyes back at that time, but did not get his way with Moshiri.

Eddie was larger than life, banter, wit and in the day on some away games he was wearing that Soviet style hat, from Callans, Whitechapel, the army surplus shop, long since gone.

Great result and some great memories of the journey down, getting to the ground the old West Ham Supporters Club, before the game, after the game, and much more.

Shocking that such days have become almost a once a season event if at all, in terms of results, but the Everton away support is second to none, over the decades, and the current squad need to try and connect more with the fans and what it means to support Everton.

Man U in 1983 at Old Trafford, it was good, even though we lost, a few others, perhaps White Hart Lane in 1985, was as loud but Sunderland that night was exceptional, it was like we'd transported Goodison to the North East. You can sense the buzz of the Everton crowd, on the link below. A few Sunderland fans say it is the best away crowd they had seen at the Stadium of Light.

Sunderland

Classic Evertons

https://twitter.com/ClassicEFCGames

They may not have been the most skilful players to ever pull on the shirt but they always gave it everything they had. No show ponies in that lot.

At least with him gone we have a chance. We could get the League 1 title in 2023-24 and maybe a trip to Wembley in 2025 for the Championship playoff and the trophy that comes with it. If he was still here – forget it, we would still be in the middle of the Premier League.

Moyes himself though is a loser and always will be. I don't mean that in a nasty way because I like him. He just will never win anything and will always come up short because the lacks he key qualities to be win trophies. Tactically he is short and most important of all he doesn't have the bottle when the big moments come.

I remember off the top of my head losing 7-0 to Arsenal, 6-1 and 4-1 at home (×2) to Arsenal. 4-0 at home to Bolton. 4-1 at home to Blackburn in the cup. 1-0 in the cup to Shrewsbury. Also all the times we went to certain grounds just to "get out alive" his win record at certain grounds is non-existent.

I remember in particular the semi-final against a dreadful, dreadful, out of form and confidence Liverpool side and going 1-0 up, Moyes on the touchline sucked the life and belief out of his players with his tactics.

I remember a semi-final against Man Utd with a different manager (not popular on here) with the score 1-1 and I saw with my own eyes, Martinez waving his players forward and going for the win the result was we despite having a makeshift team should have won that game if not for Stones and Lukaku we would have. Contrast between someone who wants to win and someone who is trapped in fear.

Moyes is now doing a good job at West ham but anyone who watched West ham play Kidderminster could see the old Moyes unable to instruct his team to simply pass the ball quicker and getting lucky in not losing to a non-league team.

Everton is a massive massive football club. Men like Kenwright and Moyes transformed the image of the football club into a small club. Very sad and actually that is one of the biggest problems with this club: 20+ years of having our true identity ruined.

I agree, he gave us back a bit of pride. His teams worked hard and were mostly disciplined. But we had some shockers on his watch too. I know it wasn't the worst score line, but that 4-0 at Highbury on the last day of the season when the poor Evertonian fell asleep and was caught on camera for a global audience. That was bad.

In some ways, there are parallels to the nearly team of the 70s who never quite got there but are often remembered fondly by that generation despite winning nothing. Not in style or anything like that, just in how that era is remembered.

It depends what you want. I was brought up listening about the 60s. League titles and FA Cup triumph. I watched us win 2 league titles, an FA Cup, go close to the double twice and win our only European Trophy to date. Narrowly missing out on a historic treble of League, FA Cup and European glory and regular appearances at Wembley before the semi finals were held there.

That I am afraid is my benchmark. And that won't change regardless. I am not being told that we are fortunate enough if we finish 6th and are a nice club. No-one – Moyes or whoever – can play my expectations down for Everton. That is acceptance and appeasement to those who want you to believe it.

All bar two of City's Titles have been won since 2011.

Proud history.

Let's move on, we have two mega important away games coming up that will determine the seriousness of our position going into a series of games against some of the Top Six teams. We need to maintain our current advantage over Burnley heading into those games.

The fans wanted Liverpool, the players gave us Liverpool, and I left their stadium that night with a picture of a harp with the word “believe” from the Guinness advert, already ingrained into my mind, because not one Evertonian was scared of Liverpool, but David Moyes and his players were to scared to beat them unfortunately.

I’m certain Sunderland moved the away fans into the gallows, not longer after that Barry, I think Chelsea moved the fans away from the side, behind the dugout, not longer after Mouriniho, asked how come 3000 Evertonians, could make more noise than the rest of the ground, even though Chelsea were top of the league, on MOTD.

I’m sick of this Everton team, who isn’t? But after watching that video Barry, I’ve decided I’m going to West Ham this Sunday. The chips might be down, but that’s exactly the time to stand up and be counted, and I just hope the players can realize this, because Everton’s future is at stake.

Many didn't realise what we had in Moyes for many of the above mentioned reasons. He brought grit, professionalism, stability and determination to our club. He made us punch above our weight. I would like to point out that he has real affection for the club, I especially wish to point out that all of his achievements had been on a shoe-string budget.

Moyes can pick a signing, we all know it, he researches thoroughly and character is everything to him. I suspect Moshiri would be considerably closer to his dream if he had appointed Moyes several years ago.

I finally found the station, but when Stuart scored, I couldn’t move a muscle in case I lost the station again, but I made-Shaw I woke the house up again, once I knew we were safe🙏

It didn't work out because sometimes it just doesn't… but Moyes!!!!! The king of trophyless, mid-table nothingness.

Just what we deserve!!! 😂😂😂

Have a look at some of Danny's points on this thread and go research some bits about English football - you will find Moyes was the first Everton manager ever who was not challenged - was allowed to stay in post for over a decade without a trophy (no other Everton manager in history had such an easy run) and with his chairman, perpetuated the narrative about 'plucky little Everton'.

Add to this his disgraceful exit and subsequent behaviour towards Everton and it shows the true measure of the man - mediocre coach ahd charletan in my view

To break into the the top four/six now is almost impossible. We've missed our chance and, like every club bar Citteh, the RS and Chelsea, we'll be lucky to pick up one cup trophy over the next 20 years however good we are. The PL is now a cross between the Scottish league and the Spanish league - a closed shop at the top.

So, right now, Moyes looks a fantastic option for any PL club outside the Sky lot. He was right for us when he arrived here, he wasn't right for us when we were making our ill-fated tilt for the top, he'd be right for us now as we adjust to our place in the pecking order.

He instilled a sense of unity throughout the club even down to the tea ladies. He received next to no backing in the transfer market and therefore imo he performed heroics during the early Kenwright regime.

However the manner of his leaving and subsequent put downs of our club means for me he should never be allowed near the place again.

I don't know why we are even discussing him but I suppose it takes our minds off the dreadful position we are in.

Talk about throwing the towel in and accepting.

Not I.

I’d say that was punching above our weight, wouldn’t you?

There's a local club which hasn't finished outside of the top 8 in over sixty years - that's what Everton should at the very least aspire to, and the Moyes years should have been a temporary blip in our historical ambitions but that period is rapidly becoming the template for many, if nothing says the decline of a football club and Everton in particular, the pining for the Moyes years shouts it loud and clear.

Everton are heavyweights punching well below their weight and it suited Moyes and Kenwright to say otherwise to fit in with their own limited abilities and complete lack of ambition.

It's not throwing in the towel, it's facing reality. I'm hopeful we might one day win a cup - the league cup or FA cup - and maybe qualify for a European competition again. But we're so far away from challenging for the Top 4 let alone the title, that it's impossible to imagine a scenario in which that becomes a possibility. Not in my lifetime anyway. The next club to have a go at it will be Newcastle, and maybe they'll have better luck that we did since Moshiri arrived. I doubt it though.

Everton, as a club, punched below their weight, Moyes, however, undoubtedly did punch above his weight with the resources he had.

How we celebrated being the best of the rest, Moyes even received a hero’s welcome before he departed for Manchester United. This was a job he got because he did a great job for himself, and especially for our Chairman, but nobody could ever convince me, that David Moyes did a great job for Everton fc.

But football, like life is cyclic. Why can we not expect to rise again? I follow this club as I have done all my life waiting for the next trophy and league title.

Just as I did when I played, I played to win. I support Everton to win. I'll accept reality at a point in time, but I'll never accept mediocracy for Everton over time.

"Everton expects success. We've a very good crowd and our crowd are very loyal. But of course they pay money and expect to see us do well. If we don't do well then something should be done about it and something will be done about it".

Before my time but fine words from Sir John Moores that totally resonate with me. How we could do with that mentality at board room level now and over the past decades.

Before this becomes a "this manager v that manager" debate, the manager is not the problem at Everton. It hasn't been for a long time.

He could not depend on them to produce the points when it mattered. Against the top teams, he was exposed as a bottler, with results to prove it over the years.

He partly enhanced the Everton Club to the structure of entitlement we have today, that many managers have had trouble with. Even at West Ham, his interviews before Top 4 opposition show an inferiority complex which we are, oh too familiar with.

I find myself also conforming to accepting the mediocrity that is Everton in some vain hope of some light emerging.

But it eventually became apparent he wasn't the person to take us to where I want Everton to be. Like the Chairman, he came in at an hour of need but overstayed the welcome and between them, set the club onto a pathway and mindset of accepting mediocracy.

Between them, they played down any kind of expectation. They are responsible for the lost generation of Evertonians who not only have never experienced success, but now don't seem to expect or demand it. I will continue to do so as long as I can breathe, speak and type.

I still shudder at the thought of that Wigan cup match at Goodison. I wake up in cold sweats over the semi final surrender against the dark side when they were there for the taking and we had them. I am embarrassed at the knife to a gunfight mentality that got installed into the club.

As for the way he departed, I like to consider myself an honest person. Not the best, but honest. He knew he was going to United from January yet lied and denied it. Then went as everyone knew he was.

To coin a phrase labelled at those who supported Ancellotti, the happy clapping of him on his last game at Goodison still makes me cringe.

At the time I remember thinking, are those three points worth more than being in an FA Cup semifinal? But as time went by, it became apparent why Moyes had celebrated the victory so joyfully.

The biggest problem has always been our current Chairmen, and to me, he has only ever had one rival, with regards to being the biggest jinx on Everton football club, and quite often, I get the feeling that Bill Kenwright is a secret Liverpudlian, especially when he tells us we have had some great times.

Moyes did a marvelous job for us getting regular top 6 finishes. The next trophy we win could possibly be the Championship.

All have been relegated in my lifetime Paul and at times hadn't or haven't won trophies in years. A couple even went to the 3rd tier of English football. I doubt any of their fans stopped believing they were a big club.

Why shouldn't we consider Everton a big club? Some Evertonians may have had it beaten out of them. I haven't.

All the top clubs would be ashamed at our poor trophy record over this period, and our only notable achievement is that other than Arsenal we have the longest unbroken spell in the top division and even that is now under threat. When I look at the teams at the top Man City, Chelsea I have seen both of these clubs playing outside of the top league, City dropping down 2 leagues, but both benefitted from rich owners taking over, when we finally got someone who could match their wealth the club have gone backwards. Not only have we gone backwards we are having weekly discussions to keep the right side of the FFP rules, so in essence we have blown Moshiris money and financially we are back to a club that is struggling financially and very little hope of reverting that decision any time soon.

Who was captain of Man Utd when they were relegated?

No cheating now, just honest replies, that is if anyone is interested in replying.

As for Moyes, supporting him now is akin to a shipwrecked sailor clinging to the driftwood bits of the boat that their captain built in the first place - it shows how far we have fallen.

Not just for family reasons (now), but I remember Villa going down the year we last won the title. They've been relegated twice more recently since then. But they bounced back. Newcastle likewise, City and Leeds were staring down the abyss. Chelsea a nothing club.

We've sailed close to the wind with those 2 last day escapes in the 1990s. Hopefully it doesn't come to that this season.

But we will always be a big club. And we will be back to claim our place.

Alan Gowling popped into my head but I think he was a bit later.

I was very surprised when I was told the answer, queried it in fact, but it was correct!!

Dave (67), sorry, no go.

Moyes had his time and many were convinced he could never transform the team into out and out winners. If that perception was true and the reality is that it continues then why hand the reins back to him rather than gambling that the next guy may be more hero than zero?

Remember, we are looking for ‘nothing but the best' not a steady hand on the tiller. The approach isn't risk-free but it is the one we must take to find the manager who can deliver what we are hoping for.

Or was it his limitations as a manager? Or both?

Given our poor squad, financial issues and the fact no manager has lasted more than 18 months since Martinez - I think we could really use a manager to steady the ship. I don't want Moyes back, but if Lampard gets us into Europe in the next few seasons he will have done well.

Literally no manager in the world can transform this side into winners without huge investment (or an extremely astute strategy implemented over 3 or more years - and a bit of luck).

So if we try to hunt out a manager to win things without such investment or wider club strategy we will fail - as the last few years have demonstrated.

While that might not sit well with those who have actually witnessed successful sides and believe in the motto - it's our present reality.

Danny (77), ask your wife, she might know I think he played for Villa, not sure, I'll put the answer up in another 5 minutes.

I love them more than they realise.

The dogs and Everton that is!

I think I know who it is now, but his connections are with another major club as well as Villa, and most would forget he played for United – if I've got the right guy.

George Graham.

Great bit of trivia that, Dave, thanks.

He lost his place at Arsenal when they signed Bally off Catterick by the way.

The point I was countering was how much value could be placed on another ‘quality' of Moyes that had been presented. How much a manager spends (or doesn't) may just not be that relevant if the overall quality or worth of the squad of players is more accurately represented by the total wages they command. Therefore, ‘judging' managers on net spend as some have tried to do on this thread is perhaps a pointless exercise. Sorry for not making that clear.

There are, of course, some occasions when the wage bill League and actual league placings haven't lined up (Leicester obviously) but it tends to show whether the manager is operating under the harshest conditions or not.

As I said before, my eventual dissatisfaction with Davie Moyes was because I couldn't see his teams developing further than best of the rest and so I'd much rather take punt after punt on unknown quantities rather than welcome him back.

The present relegation-haunted circumstances may cause some to hanker after we used to have but I'm generally happy that the club hierarchy has pursued that ‘X-factor'.

Or am I thinking of when he fell out with him at Chelsea?

Certainly League placings broadly correlate to the level of investment into the playing squad.

Wage bill is a good proxy for that.
Net and gross spend are also indicators - as is overall squad value (which takes account of the fact that we don't get our moneys worth for the wages paid to Tosun, Delph, Sigurdsson and Gbamin etc). Transfermarkt publish this information and although it isn't perfect, each teams' value suffers from the same imperfections so it sorts of works out about right overall.

Net spend probably is the best indicator of how wisely you've spent your money rather than how good your squad actually is.

However you cut it, Moyes did very well relative to investment. Financially it was a knife to a gunfight. It's a shame he used that phrase in a footballing sense though and in that respect he let himself and the club down with that mentality.

However, what the 90s and period post Moyes have shown is that we can't just chop and change managers until we find one who materially out performs the level of investment. That approach has led to very unwise spending and managers underperforming the level of investment in the playing squad. In short, we'll get relegated doing that.

The moral of the story for me is that, without comparable riches, it is impossible for any manager to compete with the richest clubs at the top of the league.

However, I do think that a patient approach to building up a quality squad (through a sensible approach to net spend amongst other things) will allow us to return to a position where we are in with a shout of 4th to 6th place, European adventures and Cup trophies. Barring a miracle, that is the best we or any other club can hope for until we have huge sums of money to spend.

I think Martin Buchan was definitely the captain when Man Utd went down in 73/74. Yes Docherty signed and played George Graham but he only played 24 games out of the 42 that season.

United Captains

The moral of the story is when you ask a question make sure you know the bleedin’ answer. Sorry for the confusion but the question was asked in good faith of the answer being right.

Following on from that when you fall off your bike you get back on straight away so you can learn to ride it. With that in mind: Here is my next question, strictly for the over 75’s only: Who played centre half for Everton in the 1950 semi final versus Liverpool?

I went hurtling down a bridge over a bypass. It had 2 traffic control pillars to stop vehicles using it. Going way too fast, I managed to perfectly make the handle bars hit them square on. The bike stopped. But I didn't and for a moment looked like Superman flying through the air.

Well I did stop, but about 20 yards from where the bike came to an abrupt halt, landing like a crashing glider on my chest and stomach.

I took most of the skin off my stomach and chest. Picked myself up, cried all the way home (with my bike).

Aside from telling me off for being stupid, my mother put me in a hot bath of salted water. I guess in hindsight it was tough love and cure, but it hurt!!

I digress. Let's see the answer to this latest football trivia!!

Me arl fella seems to recall it was Falder or possibly Farrell.

Hes not google and his memories going a bit but thats what he came up with.

I will be at West Ham on Sunday and want to wipe the smugness off his post match interview.

Most importantly, I want Everton to win. That's all I ever want.

Win, not try not to lose. Awful mentality and approach to the beautiful game.

Tell him he did well with that answer, not many get that right and very few people remember Ted Falder at all, doubt if he played many games for the Blues and at that time we had the great TG Jones, out of favour with the club then, another Welsh international centre half Jack Humphrey’s possibly injured along with Maurice Lindsey all ahead of Ted Falder, tell him he gets 10 out of 10.

Funny thing is age, his recall from the 50s,60s and 70s with regards Everton is phenomenal.

Watch a game with him now and he keeps asking me who our players are.
He wants no truck with the modern game and keeps repeating..." not a patch on Temple or Morrisey".

"Because I saw us beat them on my birthday at Goodison (23 April) and Willie skippered them. It was during the week because I got absolutely bladdered and I was really hungover on site the next day. Mick Lyons scored the only goal of the game. It was us that sent them down really coz after losing to us it was out of their hands. They needed to win the last two league games and have results from other clubs go their way, and them results never arrived for them. They lost to City and the back heel a few days after we did them and they were down."

If you want to bring a tear to the eye, read that.

Caveat that I'm an emotional Everton fool.

Tony guess who gave me the question? Your brother and my good son Michael, I got bleedin’ lumbered with you two!!

But coming from an Everton winner who played amongst winners and managed a winning team means something.

My son sent me the link. He's still away and they poor lad being born in 1994 has not seen Everton win anything in his living memory. His time has to come.

The current side would not be in the state it is in with him here and would be much harder to play against. Quality manager who had the pragmatism to play to this teams strengths, rather than being welded to a 'philosophy'. Let's hope Lampard turns out as good.

Kenwright would love you unconditionally.

An alternative view is that he was a manager who played down a generation's expectations and played into the Chairman's run book. They were a good match in that respect. He done a job but failed to push us forward. They failed to push us forward for the sake of balance.

The word 'pragmatism' speaks volumes for how that expectation has been set.

We'd rather see pragmatism than win the Premier League as Champions? Is that what we have become? Sorry, I respect different views, but I won't accept that. My bar for Everton is higher than being pragmatic.

If he had been given the money to spend these last 5 years, we would I'm sure be a regular Champions League and definite Europa League club. Pity we never brought him back after Silva.

He's the past. He's gone. He's not coming back.