Well, things certainly are moving at boardroom level at the moment but I (probably like the majority of the fanbase) am waiting for the big resignation. If Bill Kenwright goes, good. However, as I see it, sadly it is about 22 years too late. 

At the time of King's Dock, despite the growing monster the Premier League was becoming, there was still a window for any club getting its act together to move into the upper reaches of the table and access the big money. I firmly believe that King's Dock was our opportunity but spectacularly missed, leaving us irreparably damaged. 

I can still vividly recall my excitement at viewing on ToffeeWeb the new stadium design and location. Sadly, I can also recall my abject disappointment and anger at the squandering of this opportunity. It is not helped by my visits to Liverpool and seeing the arena that should not be there. 

Kenwright by all accounts pulled the plug on this move (unless someone out there knows differently). He was supported by lesser shareholders but it meant that Paul Gregg and Lord Grantchester couldn’t push it through, I believe.

King's Dock, I view as arguably one of the biggest decisions taken in modern history by our club; however, I can find no explanation by Kenwright to us fans, the lifeblood of the club, as to why he did not conclude the deal. Are we so insignificant and disrespected that it was not explained to us?

Interestingly, the other main individuals, Paul Gregg and Lord Grantchester, don’t appear to shed much light on the situation. Was it just so simple that Kenwright wanted to keep control? I understand the deal was not perfect but would have left us so much better placed in the rapidly changing Premier League.

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We would have had under the proposed plans a 55,000 capacity all-seater state-of-the-art stadium, retractable roof and pitch, and a multi-use venue in a location to die for. Can anyone out there provide the nuts and bolts reasons for not moving to King's Dock?

My feeling is that Kenwright, by this one action, irreparably damaged us and positioned us light-years behind the progressive clubs who were embracing and recognising the changing dynamics of elite football, coupled with globalisation of the game. Under his stewardship, we have continued to be run like a pre-Premier League club – and probably not a well-run one either.

As other clubs progressed and some had new wealthy owners, we appear to have been run by increasing debt levels and becoming a feeder club for others as we had to sell our best players. I recall the sadness I felt as I recognised our club was not really respected as a competitor and challenger for honours but merely there to make up the numbers.

Under Kenwright the disappointments just kept coming in a never-ending stream. Another constant was how us the fans were constantly kept in the dark, probably craving explanation but never getting it. 

Kenwright found us a new owner but even this appears to be shrouded in mystery – Why was he kept on as Chairman? What was the role of Alisher Usmanov? was the funding dubious? An owner worth £1.8 to 2 billion is not going to sadly make much impression in today’s Premier League.

A fiasco has ensued and Kenwright was closely involved, as far as I can reasonably judge. At the moment, it looks like we are going to see some potentially significant change — 23 years too late! The question for me is: “Is it too little, too late if we are to become once again a force in English Football?"

True, we have the new Everton Stadium under construction at Bramley-Moore Dock but, while impressive, can it make the money to support a push for the Top 6? Our competitors now have grounds of 60,000 and some have more.

Can we overcome the “protectionist“ Profitability and Sustainability Rules? It looks like we are getting investment from MSP Sports Capital but they don’t seem to be a particularly big hitter when looking at the owners of  Newcastle Utd, Manchester City, Chelsea etc as well as who will be taking over at Manchester Utd and possibly Liverpool.

Money — and lots of it — appears to be a minimum requirement (let’s see where Brighton plateau at in the next couple of years) and MSP don’t look to sadly carry that punch. 

Kenwright may go or stay in some limited capacity; personally, I hope he goes but, sadly for all us Evertonians, his legacy will remain, possibly forever but more than likely for a longer period yet. Irreparable damage is where I started this and the damage started in my humble opinion with Kings Dock but I am always prepared to be corrected.

Kenwright appears to have pulled the plug on that opportunity for our club and consigned us, a great club and institution, to what feels like a life of mediocrity with not a lot of hope for returning to the top echelons of the Premier League.

We Evertonians will all have different views of how we would like our club to progress in the future. As an older fan, I have had the joy of the late '60s and mid-'80s but many younger fans sadly have not enjoyed those exciting times.

For myself, I probably haven’t the time for a slow step-by-step build of our club and I question if such an approach is possible these days. Good players would be picked off and a continual rebuild cycle (like Brighton and Southampton of a few years ago) would be the situation.

My preference, and I think our only chance of returning to a top-level position within the Premier League would be for serious wealth to become owners – and preferably not of a dubious background – if that is possible.

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Reader Comments (45)

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Barry Hesketh
1 Posted 13/06/2023 at 17:29:04
I think the general consensus, regardless of who comes in and leaves the boardroom, is that we are in for at least a couple more dire seasons, trying to eke out points, with a squad that is just about good enough to stay in the top flight.

I've never understood what Bill and his cohorts were trying to protect, when they made decisions that were not exactly progressive or helpful in making the club relevant in the modern game, Heritage? Tradition? "School of Science"? "The Everton Way"? "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum"? Whatever it was they all made a huge mess of it, regardless of their personal motives.

Missing the boat in the early 2000s has damaged the club, perhaps, forever, as the traditional serial winners have been joined by the filthy rich such as Man City, Chelsea and now Newcastle Utd. That's at least six teams who can blow Everton out of the water in the transfer market, as well as being difficult to regularly pick up points against.

Then we have Brentford, Brighton and perhaps Fulham, who may not trouble the engravers but will likely field more competitive teams than Everton in the next few years and already have a proven strategy in place that will likely keep them in the big league for a few more years.

Our fate now lies in which quality players we can keep for a few years and a greater reliance on up-and-coming talent that comes through Finch Farm. We escaped the grim reaper last month, but can we repeatedly do it in the coming seasons? We'd like to believe that this week's events will signal a change, but I think many of us fear that it's all too little and all too late.

The new stadium won't be the solution to any of our problems, only Dyche and the players can turn the club's fortunes around, and that's a big ask, when the squad is likely to be stripped of most of its quality players in the coming months and years.

Danny O’Neill
2 Posted 13/06/2023 at 17:42:23
Thanks for that Barry. Insightful thoughts. It's been a tough couple of years, that's for sure.

Our club failed to build almost the day after we last won the league.

Now, I have my occasional Heysel rants, but it didn't stop Arsenal and Manchester United having a future vision both in terms of stadium and on the pitch.

Goodison is practically the same stadium I went to when I was a kid. The Park End changed, a plastic roof on the Gwladys Street. But that's about it. We stood still.

When we move to the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, we will have a bigger capacity than Newcastle Utd. Only Manchester City, West Ham (both who notoriously don't fill the grounds), Arsenal, United, Tottenham and them lot will have more seats. I don't think I've missed anyone.

Can we achieve? Nothing is given and you have to earn the right. But anything is possible.

Did homeless Brighton think they would be playing in a shiny new home and Europe 20 years ago?

Did Brentford believe they would be an established Premier League team in a spanking new stadium a few decades ago?

Did Manchester City think they would be European Champions and treble winners when they'd narrowly beaten Gillingham in 1999 to get out of the 3rd tier of English football?

Newcastle relegated twice in very recent times. Likewise Villa.

It's a different landscape, but then the landscape always changes. Always has done, always will. Adapt and move with it.

We have a better start point than those clubs I've just mentioned. Some over the past few seasons suggested we should follow the model of Leeds, Leicester and Southampton.

All relegated.

We follow an Everton model. The future is blue.

John Zapa
3 Posted 13/06/2023 at 17:55:31
I don't think not building King's Dock was the missed opportunity. That was redeveloping Goodison Park. I think that was the act of negligence by the Chairman and the other so-called leaders at the club for the last quarter century or so.

Liverpool has shown how it should and could have been done. Every obstacle faced to redeveloping each stand had a solution if someone had the will to find and fight for it.

Goodison could have been a 60,000-seater stadium with ultra-modern facilities at a fraction of the cost of the current plans for the new stadium.

I believe the new stadium will never cover its costs and it will remain a burden around the neck of the club. For the foreseeable future, the club will continue to circle the drain until the inevitable relegation destroys the club. Thanks for the good times Bill.

Barry Rathbone
4 Posted 13/06/2023 at 18:01:00
Not beyond repair if real money comes in to take us beyond "sell to buy" and the subsequent relegation scraps.

Hopefully Moshiri has it all planned out with a sheikh in his pocket ready to step in on completion of the new build.

[Weeps at the attraction of delusion.]

Brian Williams
5 Posted 13/06/2023 at 18:01:54
Good you can look on the bright side, John.
Danny Baily
6 Posted 13/06/2023 at 18:22:52
John 3, I don't think there have been any serious proposals to redevelop Goodison this century. Just some nonsense about 'sky boxes'.

A new stadium has been the only viable option, and the location we've gone with is just about the best we could have hoped for after King's Dock.

Danny O’Neill
7 Posted 13/06/2023 at 18:38:02
To redevelop Goodison, we would have had to buy up houses and change the footprint. Similar to what Tottenham have done.

I've been talking about redeveloping or the need to move for over 30 years.

When she's finished, the new place will look spectacular.

I just don't want to think about the last time we walk away from the Grand Old Lady.

Barry Hesketh
9 Posted 13/06/2023 at 22:36:18
Danny @7
It looks as if we will have to wait until we all take up our seats at the new place.

Everton Fans' Forum @EFC_FansForum
🏟️ A presentation given to FAB was shared with the Forum on the new stadium. Progress on the build remains good but club stressed completion is during 2024, not in time for 2024/25 season.

I've also read, but can't confirm, that current premier league rules prohibit a club from having two home grounds during the same season, so it looks like August 2025 will be the earliest we'll be cheering on the team at Bramley Moore Dock.

Paul Birmingham
10 Posted 13/06/2023 at 22:51:47
All, just a recap the seating design for BMD, with use of Rail Seating, could I recall add an extra 10k, but will this concept, be part of the internal stadium fit out project?


Paul Kossoff
11 Posted 13/06/2023 at 23:40:57
Barry, great read, thanks.

Like you, I put the blame for our decline firmly at Kenwright's feet, but I think he just didn't have the cash to build the Kings Dock stadium or put Everton in that much debt for it.

Did Man City's owners approach us before the Kings Dock or after? – I can't remember. If they did, why did Kenwright turn them down if, like us, he's a true blue and wanted the best?

Jay Harris
12 Posted 14/06/2023 at 00:43:47
just to correct you Paul Gregg who had been a good friend of kenwrights up to that point but had caught on to Bill's "shortcomings" offered to put the 30m required for Kings Dock up on condition that Bill resigned as chairman.

Bill refused and then conducted a campaign via the media to ridicule the Greggs and claim that he had investors (Fortress Sports Fund) and that a cheque would be in the bank in the morning.

Suffice it to say like so many of Kenwrights lies this wasnt true and the council got fed up hanging around for black Bill and pulled the plug.

Clive Rogers
14 Posted 14/06/2023 at 10:35:54
And when he left, Gregg’s departing comment was “Bill hasn’t a clue how to run a football club”. Prophetic!!!
Brian Williams
15 Posted 14/06/2023 at 10:59:06
Clive. So true. An old mate of mine worked in the finance side of the club and he said exactly the same.
Said he went on and on about historical players and the good old days but was genuinely clueless on the grown up side of things.
Pete Neilson
16 Posted 14/06/2023 at 11:17:00
Barry (9) the PL told Spurs that they had to play all their games at Wembley in 2018/19 but something changed as they played out the remaining games of the season, April onwards, at their new ground. They actually used three grounds as they played a home cup game at MK Dons ground.

Obviously just because Spurs were allowed to do this doesn’t mean we will!

Paul Barton
17 Posted 14/06/2023 at 11:25:54
All very valid points, Barry, but it's all in hindsight now. We need to look forward and plan.

We will hopefully move into a new state-of-the-art stadium, with an option to increase the attendance in the future. And though we are 'in the mire' financially, we've now got the perfect manager in place to hopefully guide us away from another relegation dogfight(s). The DoF also looks useful plus the new era of a fresh board with some 'much needed cash injection'.

All we can do is, as always, get behind the team and club and hopefully move on and not get 'stung' with the P&S Rules breach allegations that loom over us.

We are slowly but surely dragging ourselves out of 'another fine mess' and hopefully the calamity 'piano move' the old board were attempting can now be rectified.


Rob Dolby
18 Posted 14/06/2023 at 11:58:50
Kings dock was a big loss but if we had secured the 20m and then tried to build a stadium it also would have burdened the club.

Danny quotes Liverpool getting it right. Results on the pitch got it right for SAF at Man U, Wenger at Arsenal and Klopp at Lpool. Lpool where very close to going into administration under previous owners.

Without a winning team kings dock may well have sunk the club.
Would we have kept Rooney, Lescott, Stones or Lukaku managed by Davey Moyes into his 20th season with the blues.

I have played devil's advocate here a bit but I do firmly believe success on the pitch is paramount and the rest will follow if we have the right people in power.

A new stadium doesn't guarantee success, ask derby, Sunderland and Southampton.

James Hughes
19 Posted 14/06/2023 at 12:21:58
Redeveloping Goodison was never an option the footprint is too
The club would have had to compulosry purchase properties in the streets around the ground. That would not have gone down well plus the other lot had years of battles of getting people out. Also a ground built in 1982 would need to be razed to the ground and rebuilt. The better option has been taken IMO

Jay # 12 please be careful as you will have Martin on here saying that is all an Everton myth. BPB never said the money was ring fenced or in the bank the next day and we have all just invented the stories LOL

Martin Mason
20 Posted 14/06/2023 at 12:31:21
James, I restate it as fact mate. BPB never said the money was ring fenced or in the bank the next day and I have explained what he really said clearly. No, you didn't invent the stories and I have never said that rather you misunderstand what was actually said based on what you wanted to hear. KD was a non-event that was never, ever going to happen. The ground being built now is superb and real rather than a myth.
Geoff Cadman
21 Posted 14/06/2023 at 13:01:15
The kings Dock was reliant on EU grants of £120,000,000, not just for Liverpool but the whole of Merseyside. Every Council wanted their share of that money, the objections to Everton getting that money ensured it was never going to happen. The original estimated £30,000,000 Everton needed to cover their end of the project had more or less doubled, and would continue to rise when the plug was pulled.
There is a Chapter in a Ken Rogers book which covers early plans to re-develop
Goodison by clearing all buildings adjacent to Bullens Road, again to many objections for it to get off the ground. Ken also points out Liverpool did not face the same opposition with there main stand expansion.
Regarding Bill Kenwright and the City owners, he said at the time of the takeover that they never bought into Everton because of the lack of a decent Stadium. When you consider how much money the Mansoors have ploughed into that area and a Stadium they are renting, seems to me it would have been the least of there worries.
Raymond Fox
22 Posted 14/06/2023 at 13:14:26
Excellent article Barry you have nailed the reasons why it will difficult to get anywhere near to being a regular top 6 club again.

Its not impossible but as it stands 6 or 7 clubs have the rest of us in a headlock due to P & S rules, present squad values and being already in Europe, not do mention bigger fan bases and being more attractive to the very top players.
I've stated the same several times without response presumably because the dreamers on here would rather kid themselves that we will overcome all the barriers.

I'd love to believe we could do it but its a long shot I'm afraid, it is what it is, I will keep supporting Everton whatever.

Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 14/06/2023 at 13:38:49
Going off the subject a little bit, but it does make me laugh when Liverpool fans sing fuck the Tories, when you read how their club, went about destroying the area around Anfield, to try and force local people who had lived in the area all their lives to sell their houses.

Kenwright has lived the dream, made his money, and preceded over the longest barren trophy-less spell in our history, whilst not being able to add anything of serious note to a timeline he created around Goodison.

I'm hoping that William plays no part in the opening of our new stadium, because I think he's an absolute jinx.

Stephen Vincent
24 Posted 14/06/2023 at 14:27:41
Paul #11, Mansour acquired Man City from Thaksin Shinawatra in August 2008. Everton's failed Kings Dock project was in 2001.

'Bill Kenwright consulted the fans with 15,049 voting in favour of moving to King’s Dock and 2,349 wanting to redevelop Goodison in November 2000. Everton were expected to face stiff opposition from what was described as six other world-class proposals but they were granted “preferred bidder” status by Liverpool Vision in June 2001'.

In 2006 Thaksin Shinawatra acquired Manchester City for £81m, unfortunately a military coup in Thailand and the freezing of his assets resulted in his tenure being limited to 14 months and the promised £350m investment never materialised. He sold to Sheik Mansour in 2008 for $212m (£157m). He was offered and accepted the title of Honorary President for Life. This was however withdrawn on his and his wife’s conviction for abuse of power in their own country. They were subsequently sentenced to 2 and 3 years respectively.
The acquisition of Manchester City had been the Sheik’s third choice behind Newcastle and Everton. Mike Ashley had owned Newcastle for less than two years and was unwilling to consider a sale. Everton entered into negotiations but the sticking point was that the Abu Dhabi consortium could not gain full control as Bill Kenwright was unwilling to accept the honorary position subsequently accepted by Shinawatra. The Sheik’s interest in Newcastle and Everton stemmed from the fact that both clubs owned the land on which their stadia were built, even if, in Everton’s case, it was mortgaged to the hilt. The other requirement was that there should be an under developed airport in close proximity.

Rob Dolby
25 Posted 14/06/2023 at 14:32:09
Stephen 24. Do you have any facts to back up those claims.

I am not a bk apologist, far from it but I have always thought the Sheik Mansoor rumour was just that.

Stephen Vincent
26 Posted 14/06/2023 at 15:30:59
Rob # 25, The majority is a matter of public record, the highlighted Kings Dock quote comes from the Echo at the time.

However I was in the unusual position of having worked for Mike Ashley, although not as part of the NUFC team and also for Thaksin Shinawatra at the time of the Abu Dhabi acquisition. Following the take over of City I continued for some time at the Etihad, although not in the same role.

Eric Myles
27 Posted 14/06/2023 at 15:34:30
For those that think it was not possible to redevelop Goodison, or there were no proposals to do so.

Redevelopment of Goodison Park

Goodison Park Redevelopment

Interestingly, Chairman Bill reportedly supported the Goodison for Ever-ton proposal.

Eric Myles
28 Posted 14/06/2023 at 15:38:59
Stephen #24, is the reason why Mansour got City so cheaply linked to Thaksin's hiding out in AUH to avoid jail time in Thailand?
Stephen Vincent
29 Posted 14/06/2023 at 15:54:49
Eric#28, his exit was pretty rapid, but bearing in mind he doubled his money in 18 months, I'm sure he didn't complain too much.

The price for City was governed by the fact that at the time City didn't own the stadium (actually technically they still don't) and there were restrictive covenants galore on the club's ability to earn non match day income (in fact they had no control over what events could be held there, other than football). They also had to pay to the local authority 50% of their gate income in excess of 36,000.

Jay Harris
30 Posted 14/06/2023 at 15:55:20
I knew somebody at the council who told me that Kenwright had consistently told them that the money was ringfenced and when they found it wasnt they were so pissed at losing the grant money they refused to deal with Kenwright again.

Even though you doubt the veracity of "The cheque will be in the bank in the morning" statement you cannot deny that Fortress Sports fund was bullshit as was the supposed 15m.

Tony Abrahams
31 Posted 14/06/2023 at 17:21:21
If my memory is correct, then with regards Samuelson, I thought that Bill Kenwright used the words, “the money will be in the bank on Monday morning” and funnily enough (not really🤮) I remember seeing footage of a mad Evertonian, at the same AGM, saying to Bill Kenwright’s face, that he was fed up getting lied to on a daily basis, by our saviour.

Kenwright’s whole Everton reign has been built on lies. The list is endless, so it wasn’t really surprising that it was telling one lie to many, that finally began his descent with a rapid downfall.

Dave Downey
33 Posted 15/06/2023 at 21:02:06
I'd have liked to have seen the new place built at Estuary Commerce Park in Speke: loads of space, easily accessible by car, on foot, train, even by plane. And it would have been well within city limits.

Okay, it would have moved us from North to South Liverpool but that would have worked.

Bramley-Moore Dock I'm sure will look great but you're not getting anywhere near it in your car even if Regent Road hadn't been fucked up to meet the green agenda of an unused and unusable (ie, dangerous) bike lane that stops anyway just past the sewage plant.

Hopefully that sewage plant and the neighbouring scrapyard won't come to symbolise our move to the banks of the shit-brown Mersey.

Will Mabon
34 Posted 15/06/2023 at 21:21:50

these are the early stages of the anti-car attack. I hate it personally, it's not for anything "Green".

The area around the new stadium and the plot we have doesn't lend itself to wide scale parking even if the will was there. Don't think there'll be much other end of Priory Road type parking anytime soon either.

I think we have to hope they come through with the public transport development and we have to plan on using it. Not my ideal choice but..

Have to disagree on Speke. That would equate to a southern version of Kirkby, not really in the city.

Steve Carter
35 Posted 16/06/2023 at 08:38:47
I enjoyed reading your article, Barry, and all of the other posts.

I'm a 60-year-old Australian who has madly supported Everton since 1972, for the first 30 years largely via the imagination (courtesy of Shoot) and the occasional (generally second or third snippets match) on the Big Match. However, I've been fortunate enough to be able to visit and stay in Liverpool for a few days four or five times in the last 20 years.

The great sporting venues in Australia are all within or just on the edge the city area, and an absolute bonanza for local businesses - people head in and pregame and postgame for ages. Anyone who's been to the MCG for an AFL Collingwood/Carlton game (always around 90k crowd) knows what I mean.

Kings Dock would have killed it from a visitor's and local's perspective. The new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock looks like the next best thing. I'm sorry, but, whilst I've been mesmerised every time I've been to Goodison, the location is not one that would attract the 'merely curious' visitor; whereas the new location will.

John Pendleton
37 Posted 16/06/2023 at 12:09:23

if Kings Dock had happened on time, we should have been in a prime position to take advantage of the growths of Liverpool seafront, Premier League income and sustainable match attendance.

Had it gone ahead, however, Kenwright would have squandered that advantage by all the evidence displayed in his running of the football club since – finance, marketing, recruitment and governance.

King's Dock, Goodison or wherever – Doucoure's status-saving volley was always going to be necessary eventually with 'Good Times' in charge.

John Pendleton
38 Posted 16/06/2023 at 13:01:27
Barry, *IF* Kings Dock had happened on time, we should have been in a prime position to take advantage of the growths of Liverpool seafront, Premier League income and sustainable match attendance.

Had it gone ahead, however, Kenwright would have squandered that advantage by all the evidence displayed in his running of the football club since – finance, marketing, recruitment and governance.

King's Dock, Goodison or wherever – Doucouré's status-saving volley was always going to be necessary eventually with 'Good Times' in charge.

Robin Bateman
39 Posted 16/06/2023 at 13:56:05
Barry #9 re "I've also read, but can't confirm, that current premier league rules prohibit a club from having two home grounds during the same season, so it looks like August 2025 will be the earliest we'll be cheering on the team at Bramley-Moore Dock."

I just saw this...

2019-20-PL-Handbook-070520.pdf (not most recent I know)

Ground Registration

K5 - Each Club shall register its Stadium with the Board and must play all matches in the competitions listed in Rule L.9 for which it is the Home Club at the Stadium. No Club shall remove to another Stadium (either on a permanent or temporary basis) without first obtaining the written consent of the Board, in accordance with Rule K.6, below...


So to me, it looks like a club can move mid-season if given permission<./p>

Tom Hughes
40 Posted 18/06/2023 at 08:48:28
I see there are still a few revisionist apologists knocking around.

The Kings Dock stadium external funding was fully secured. The club's contribution may have increased slightly eventually, but the external funding by way of grants and enabling packages were all in place. Some of which were ultimately transferred to the arena and conference centre plus the surrounding hotel and other developments.

At no point did the club fully explain its collapse. I attended all of the AGMs before during and after and heard the questions and pitiful inane excuses offered throughout that were mere deflection. The club were offered the facility to meet their funding requirements by one of their own directors. This was refused.

A disastrous decision that has stifled and cost the club dearly ever since.

Jim Lloyd
41 Posted 18/06/2023 at 09:25:40
Martin (20) Have you read Tom's post (40)

I read Tom's posts all through that disastrous decision our club made. not only his posts on the Kings dock debacle but how Goodison could be redeveloped into (I think) a 55, 000 seater stadium.

The Kings Dock debacle was Kenwright's decision not to accept the loan that his partner offered. My understanding of his decision and his mates on the board, was based on him, and his mates on the board, relinquishing his role as Chairman if only.

Danny O’Neill
42 Posted 18/06/2023 at 09:46:24
Coming back to this one, as it's a really good thread. Thanks again Barry.

We are 30 years or so too late, but we do have the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock on the horizon that will benefit Everton and the city.

Dave @33, I called Speke out years ago. It would have been a great location. Dual-carriageway access close to the Motorway network and plenty of land for parking. Liverpool South Parkway and Hunt Cross train stations close. The Airport.

Disagree on two counts, Will @34.

Firstly, Speke is in the city of Liverpool. L24 and served by the city of Liverpool council. Because it is in Liverpool. Admittedly, it is more red-sided than blue but it is in the boundaries of Liverpool city.

Secondly, I don't do these imaginary political / council borders. Okay, Kirkby, Huyton, Halewood and Bootle aren't technically in the city of Liverpool. Ask anyone from those areas where they come from. I know the answer.

They have Liverpool postcodes and are part of Liverpool. Just because they have different coloured bins and a different council doesn't make them different.

Our training ground is in Halewood.

When I lived in Woolton, I could walk to Mackets Lane, cross the road and be in Halewood in Knowsley. I can turn left out of Kirkdale station and very quickly be in Bootle in the borough of Sefton. Would I know the difference? No

No wonder Manchester excelled with it's Greater Manchester thinking and the surrounding towns and districts such as Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Stockport and Altrincham associating with it and embracing it.

Manchester United has played most of its history outside the city of Manchester.

Second city now to London. Liverpool (city) can be successful. Just shed this view of being within the bounds of the council boundary. It is restrictive.

Anyway, we are now going to remain close to our roots as a club and generate much-needed development in an area of the city that has been neglected for far too long.

On capacity, as it stands, and without safe standing in mind, we will only be behind Old Trafford, Tottenham, The London Stadium, Anfield, The Emirates and just slightly behind the Etihad.

Mark Murphy
43 Posted 18/06/2023 at 10:15:42
Good post, Danny boy!

Not only have Manchester United played their home games outside the city of Manchester, they have actually played their home games in a different city – the city of Salford! The plastic cunts! 🤪
Phil Greenough
44 Posted 18/06/2023 at 10:41:56
I would disagree, Danny. Yes, Speke can be regarded as part of Liverpool, just as I consider Seaforth, my location, to be.

However, if we had moved to Speke, we would have surrendered our city location status to the dark side. We would have also given up years of history.

It was imperative we remained within walking distance of Liverpool City centre. When we move from Goodison Park to Bramley-Moore Dock, we will be 15 minutes closer walking distance to Lime Street.

Danny O’Neill
45 Posted 18/06/2023 at 11:27:29
Not regarded, Phil. It is.
Jim Lloyd
46 Posted 18/06/2023 at 11:47:32
Danny, the other lot already had "One City, One Team" transfers on the back windows of their cars, before the Kirkby plan was thankfully thrown out.
Tom Hughes
47 Posted 19/06/2023 at 14:03:53

Speke would have had many of the same transport issues as Kirkby. As would all peripheral sites.

Try getting on the retail park most Saturdays. There is only one major road passing and it is already busy most of the time. It wouldn't be able to cope with Football traffic on top of that. Hunts cross is well over a mile away with just 4 trains per hr and there are only a handful of bus services through the area.

That's all before you look at the whole change in perception of a traditionally north-end club.

A total-none starter for me. and I also live in Woolton (and used to live in Speke).

Dave Lynch
48 Posted 19/06/2023 at 14:10:58
Football is irreparably damaged.
Just read that Bournemouth have sacked O'Neil, wtf.
Jim Lloyd
49 Posted 19/06/2023 at 14:37:11
Madness indeed, that, Dave...unless they've got a top top manager coming in.

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