Toffeehouse Chatroom — Matchweek 7

If the queen drops off her perch there won't be any football this weekend or next weekend either. We'll just get a month of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

You never know, might not have to face Arsenal on Saturday, state of mourning and all that.

We might have DCL and Pickford fit for the re-arranged fixture.

Every cloud...

Wonder if any games will be suspended now the Queen has died?

Bill, I was just thinking exactly the same.

Wonder if TofeeWeb can put up a page to show respect for the Queen may she rest in peace.

I don't think there will be any sport this weekend.

Deepest condolences to all of you, my friends in the UK.

Don't go on Twitter, some vile comments from vile people. She was our Queen for many years, and was always dignified.

It's a nice thought, Mike, but we humble plebs are not actually related to the Queen and very few of us knew her personally, so I'm not sure how the condolences work in that case?

I'm glad on the news they are finally being honest about it and saying she died and not using that most awful of euphemisms, that she 'passed'. People never used to say that but now you hear it all the time.

Games are off seemingly. And as for the comments on twatter, I'm not surprised because the world is full of sad fucks who'll write or post shite because there's no comeback and they can get away with it.

My condolences gentlemen. Keep it going. UTFT.

And like an idiot I just now see Michael's response to Mike. Out of respect for the nation as a whole regardless of the affiliation with the monarchy.

I wouldn't know about the extent of the emotional connection, Michael, but she was living history. When she was born, the world's leaders included Hirohito, Mussolini, Stalin and Calvin Coolidge. Lindbergh had not yet flown the Atlantic. Prohibition gangs were shooting up Chicago. Movies were still silent.

It would be hard to think of a person who saw -- and affected -- more change in human history.

Well I reckon it'll be one less game Pickford will miss this weekend. I can see the Premier League being suspended this weekend with the Queen just dying.

Actually might have done us a favour, playing the league leaders away. Just a thought.

Everybody sees it differently and condolences are very apt for some and not so much for others.

Queen Elizabeth II came across as a very sincere person who gave all to her nation. She will be sadly missed. A time to reflect and celebrate her achievements.

For me, it would be a shame if the games are postponed.

As saying goes, "The Queen is Dead, Long Live the King" which means life goes on for the rest of us.

Inevitable that it'll be cancelled

Michael, I would agree and I actually don't think it is something that The Queen would want or agree with anyway.

Michael, is that what you expect to happen?

I instantly assumed that there wouldn't be games kicking off less than 48 hours after her death.

I'd be shocked if there was any football this weekend. And selfishly, the more matches we get this season with Pickford and Calvert-Lewin healthy, the better.

Regardless of your thoughts on the monarchy, a 70-year reign certainly deserves a measure of reflection. As Mike said, the sheer amount of history and social change the queen bore witness to was pretty staggering.

I imagine there'll be no footy this weekend. I'm no monarchist but I had the greatest respect for the queen. R.I.P.

Why 48 hours, Mike? Why not 72 hours? Why not a week?? A month???

The entire construct is completely arbitrary.

Yes, there will be a period of "Official Mourning" and it's been so long, I think we've no idea what is and isn't allowed to proceed, when and for how long.

From the BBC: "Official engagements will be cancelled and union flags will be flown at half-mast on royal residences, government buildings, across the Armed Forces and UK Posts overseas."

Mike and Dale, your condolences are respectful and I'm sure well received.

That impressive long span has seen vast changes in the world, including to deference and automatic loyalty, so not everyone will feel sorrow, many just neutral. These are hard times with turmoil ahead, and the lives and personalities of any leaders anywhere seem detached and irrelevant.

This said, the Queen is at least a connection to better times, or times fondly remembered, and whatever her privilege, no-one can say she didn't work and travel hugely for decades.

The kind of shite on social media I can well imagine, and ironically it will only reinforce where the real problems lie.

Personally, I'd be really uncomfortable using that "Rest In Peace" sobriquet for the Queen.

It is, I believe, a distinctly Catholic invocation and lumping it on the deceased head of the Anglian Church that split from the Catholics, with massive loss of life in the enusing battles, is perhaps just a little bit insensitive at this delicate time.

Just saying.

I would like to have seen the games go ahead as a celebration.

Martin, I assume you mean as a celebration of her life. Before anybody jumps on you.

This from the Manchester Evening News:

The Premier League will be led by the DCMS (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) guidance but footballing fixtures during the weekend look likely to be scrapped.

That's an odd way of putting it. Surely they would only be postponed, not 'scrapped' which suggests they would never be played.

Seen reports of a 9/10 day period of mourning which possibly throws next weekends fixtures into doubt also?

Martin, quite funny in the cutting irony sense.

I'm actually dreading the cringe that could be generated at matches as they attempt to show respect in the modern synthetic idiom. Clapping in the 96th minute? Or the 70th minute for the length of reign, in case there's not enough extra time.

Maybe better to postpone and leave the pathos to the experts.

I believe the length of mourning is 12 days with the queen's funeral on the 9th day.

Brent@25 Yes, a celebration of her life. Sorry.

No problem. Martin. I knew what you probably meant.

Oh Will @28 — that is funny.

Great British tradition to be able to laugh on such a sad day.

RIP to The Queen, an amazing woman, with an unequalled dedication to duty for seven decades.

My guess would be no games this weekend, resume the week after with minutes of silence and black armbands.

Heh!

I'm happy for us having Frank! Can those opposed tell how we missed out here? ;P

Sorry Michael #23, what a load of tosh. Rest in peace is a sign of respect offered to people of all faiths.

May her memory be a blessing.

It looks like her funeral will be on the ninth day after her death, so maybe next weeks fixtures will be cancelled, or moved to the Sunday. I've read it being reported, that the league should gauge the mood of the nation, before deciding to postpone games, so maybe things might carry on accordingly, until the day of her funeral?

What are we without laughter? Life goes on, and laughter is such an important part of life. Maybe we don't always feel like laughing, but I couldn't imagine life without it,

Ahh, I'm so sorry to hear about the death of Queen Elisabeth II! Unfortunately the message came along a minute after my last post.

One half of me comes from a Catholic Liverpool Irish family. My Aunties had pictures of the Pope above the fireplace.

My Godfather's brother told me he hated the British Army but I was okay. Their dad fought against the British in the 1916 Dublin rebellion.

My Grandfather on the otherside was a Unionist Ulsterman from Belfast who settled in Speke in his 20s. He fought for his country (UK) in Burma in WW2.

His wife, my grandmother who I never met as she died young was from Glasgow who also landed in South Liverpool.

I served the UK for 28 years. All of that time she was the Monarch.

I'd have followed her more than any politician.

God bless you Queen Elizabeth II. A once in a lifetime leader.

If Will's suggestion was taken up of clapping in the 96th minute, it would only happen in one game and then only if Liverpool were not winning at the time.

I do have views – but the advantages of a constitutional monarchy are that they are outside of politics. For 70+ years the Queen has not got involved in the grubby stuff but has tried as best as she can to keep the population together outside of the back-biting and point-scoring of the major parties.

The only real complaint from the republicans is that only one family gets a pile of money each year to employ a load of people to make their every day life easy and nobody else gets the chance.

And as for the Rest in peace – perhaps an understanding of the Bible may come in handy, Michael. This relates far more to the Biblical principle of being in heaven with God rather than in Hell with Satan than any Roman Catholic doctrine lumped on to the Anglican church. Jesus tells a parable in Luke 16.

From the Christmas messages and other information, those of us with a Christian faith know that the Queen is resting in Peace. Those who have no faith must hope that god does not exist, otherwise their fate will that of the rich man in Luke 16.

And Michael, there are many of us who hold to our faith in the God of the bible without being Roman Catholics or Anglicans.

Colin,

In 2017, members of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland called on Protestants to stop using the phrase "RIP" or "Rest in Peace". Wallace Thompson, the secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said on a BBC Radio Ulster programme that he would encourage Protestants to refrain from using the term "RIP".

Remember, we are talking about the head of their church. Show some respect!

As tonight's MUFC match has gone ahead, then I can't see the sense in postponing other matches over the next few days.

If the funeral is over the weekend of the 10th/11th then postponement of those matches would seem more likely, imo.

I honestly don't give a shit about what a bunch of bigots think and what lack of respect am I showing exactly? Rest in peace is, as far as I know, a Christian offering to the deceased. I had no idea it was a “Catholic”.

One half of my family used Rest In Peace. The other half, May God bless his/her soul.

It's the same bloody sentiment whatever faith you profess.

The test match is cancelled tomorrow Dennis, but that's an international game, and it was reported that United would have cancelled tonight's game if asked, but because people were already going through the turnstiles, they decided to play the game.

I just mentioned to family, if some of our politicians had 1% of her dignity, humility and sense of duty, they would be 200% improved.

Michael #40 vs Colin,

Can't you just understand than an era of British "special'ness" just have come to an end for your country? I'm not even British, but I see what you'll miss soon'ish!

It has noting to do with British, or Irish, or Scottish!

Think seriously about King Charles III and PM Truss! Will it work out, or not?

Michael

The Queen isn't the head of the Orange order "church" as many members are presbyterian not Anglican.

Michael,
I live in Northern Ireland and I am of what is called here, a"mixed marriage". Everyone here, from every party has expressed their regret at the death of a woman who did a lot of good and who shook the hand of Martin McGuinness, a defining moment in bringing peace to where I grew up and still live. Truly brave, decent and unselfserving from both.
I would hate this to be in any way a devisive thread.
Why not stick to football on here.

Kieran, I have no idea what Michael is on. He's not making much sense🙄🙄

Phill,

It all depends which religion or denomination you choose and what their tenets are. There's a heck of a lot of them out there, apparently as many as there are languages.

My point relates entirely to the Queen being Head of the Church of England, and "RIP" being in effect a prayer for the dead that directly relates to the Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory – something the Church of England officially denounces. (Purgatory being a Catholic invention that considerably post-dates whatever they decided to include in The Bible.)

As a sign of respect, perhaps its use in this instance is not appropriate.

This calls for live forum!

It's now being reported on the echo website, that her funeral will take place in ten days. If this is the case, then I expect that our game against West Ham, will have to be rescheduled, and this is now something Derek Knox, will probably have to do to, with regards the ToffeeWeb get together.

Apparently when George VI died rugby and hockey games were cancelled but football continued. Wonder if there was a "class" element to that with the old stereotypes of rugby people a game for hooligans played by gentlemen and vice versa? But I would assume if the precedent has been set then the football would continue?

THere seems to be some confusion about when the Queen's funeral will be. One newspaper said Monday 19th, another said Saturday 17th. If it's the latter, then I guess football will be postponed on that day, and also I would imagine the rail strike might be called off that's been called for that day.

We play on the Sunday against West Ham so, in theory, that might go ahead. Or of course, if the funeral is on the Monday then football might carry on as usual.

I must admit, while it's obviously a huge event that she's died, I personally don't think anything should be cancelled or postponed unless it clashes directly with the funeral, or the coronation that follows. It's not the 1950s.

Archbishop of canterbury (Anglican) just released a long statement that ended with:

"May Her Late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II rest in peace and rise in glory."

@Michael 53
From the Guardian it feels like it will be Sunday, but it's speculation at the moment.

Tony (51),

”... this is something that Derek Knox will have to do too” Notice Tony two “o's” in that too.

Tony try speaking the Queens English – or from tomorrow the Kings English.

Danny #44, spot on.

Regarding postponements; a lot of people all over this country and others will have already made and paid for travel and accommodation to the weekend fixtures. It may be decided to continue this weekend but not the week after.

I think whatever happens though, people will show their respects regardless to a truly remarkable woman and monarch. She is likely to be our longest serving monarch ever, it would take a disaster or tragedy for anyone to serve longer than her in the future. Much loved and will be missed.

Gob bless Queen Elizabeth II.

Lev @ 45 - there are many enormous changes afoot regarding the functioning of the whole globe. I suspect from your post, you have at least an idea of this. Now is not the time to discuss further but the passing of the queen will only add to the wild ride. An era has ended for sure.

Dave, only a father could get away with that post...

I think Michael needs to have a quiet word with the Archbishop of Canterbury. Very disrespectful

Dave #56 that was going so well until you missed an apostrophe.

Tony @33, well said, RIP to the Queen.

Brent, two of them in fact!

I served in the Armed Forces for almost 30 years.
A sad day, but what a woman.Long live the King.
This weeks fixtures will not take place, the funeral on the 17Sept so the 18th to I suspect.
We Everton have a problem as do probably the weakest 10sides or so, weakest squads.
Toughest League in the world.We wont play until near 1Oct.We never played this week, no European footy.
We play Southampton next outing.
About seven weeks left until World Cup Break, six weeks I think.
Boxing Day.

How the -------- can we compete fairly for Premier League survival, with teams playing in Europe, Cup Knock out comps.
The strongest teams, squads in Europe, Premier League fairly.

Simply HANGING ABOUT, just waiting for a date to suit Sky, BT, UEFA,
The consequences for Everton in all probability could be massive.

SO ITS NOW TO COMPLAIN, ASK FOR A DECENT EXTENSION TO THE SEASON 4WEEKS.

Or insist that there is NO RELEGATION IN THE 21/22SEASON.

It is realistic to imagine a game every two days, for a period, impossible.
Premier League opposition not available, but in a SAFE points situation, no consequences.

Everton, the consequences could be immeasurable financially.

We must wake up NOW to the implications of relegation un fairly for any side in bottom three.

Wakey wakey Clubs.

I was going to say 'Outrageous!' Brent, 'the punctuation police called up on Gramps' but then noticed that he was spellchecking Tony. A vicious circle that.

My view is that no games should be postponed this weekend. Many people stand to lose a lot of money in non-refundable travel, and possibly accommodation costs. Especially harsh if you're a republican.

Anybody who feels strongly enough doesn't have to attend a game this weekend. Each to their own.

Neil, I would have settled for just one apostrophe! You know how mean Dave is!

Pssst Dave, he missed an 'l' in that last sentence. Helpin' you out Gramps!

Brent, ah, I had forgotten about that!

I agree with you regarding this weekend plus I don't think it is something that The Queen would want anyway.

Kieran @54, Duncan @60.

Very disappointing, Shows how wishy-washy they have become, and insensitive to their own history.

But then they just don't seem to care about changing the rules as they go along: divorce, homosexuality, women clergy. Pffft!

Adrian...

How can we compete for PL survival? Well we can stop being a car crash of a club, pissing money up a wall, on rubbish signings of deadbeat players looking for a pension pot.

It would appear that we may have started to do that, it'll take time, many seasons in fact and we have seen many false dawns.

I've a warm feeling. Although I may have just wet myself.

I agree Brent and don't think the good lady would want it.

Go ahead and show respect but she would want the country to carry on.

Dale, Dave will now be looking for a missing 'l' - when there isn't one missing (any more)! You cruel sod!

Brent,

Apparently the Premier League will decide tomorrow. Racing, cricket already cancelled. I imagine they will try and take the pulse of the country.

I remember when Diana died, people were upset about flags not flying at half-mast at the Palace -- something that only happens when the monarch dies -- but eventually when the Queen went out they bowed to public opinion and lowered them.

I can't imagine the clubs would be in favor of a postponement with the World Cup interrupted schedule but I suspect if enough other sports, events cancel, they will probably toe the line to avoid seeming uncaring.

Yes, Kieran, that would be might difficult for the EPL to not postpone games when other sports were postponing events. I think they'll be off this weekend.

Premier League is ruthless where money is concerned. People were dying by the thousands with Covid but no way would they cancel the season. One weekend cancelled. Tops.

Strong rumours the Premier League is gonna shut down for 12 days. In one respect that may not be a bad thing for us given Pickford's injury, and Calvert-Lewin might be back.

But that's all they are... rumours.

EFL latest:

"An EFL statement read: “As a mark of respect, following the passing of Her Majesty, The Queen Elizabeth II earlier today, the EFL has confirmed that its fixtures scheduled for tomorrow evening – Burnley vs Norwich City and Tranmere Rovers vs Stockport County – have been postponed.

“A determination regarding the remainder of this weekend's scheduled fixtures will be made following a review of the official mourning guidance, in addition to further consultation with DCMS and other sports on Friday morning.”

I imagine the Premier League will feel it's necessary to follow suit

This season is already disrupted as it is because the corrupt FIFA wants to have the World Cup in Qatar! in the winter! So I'm not sure how they can squeeze in even more games if they get postponed this week alone!

FWIW, there's a similar phrase used by Jews, which is yanuach/tanuach bshalom. It's usually translated as "may he/she rest in peace" but the more literal translation is "may peace be upon him".

It's often followed by "May his/her memory be a blessing."

I had always assumed that RIP had some vaguely Christian connotation, but it certainly doesn't seem to be exclusive to Catholicism.

Being a bit of a mumbler, I will be quite happy using the king's English Dave, but you're going to have to get some stronger batteries for your hearing aid now though mate!

Because of the World Cup and possible fixture congestion, I suspect games won't be postponed but just cancelled.

Points will be allocated on the following basis: firstly, the traditional (not current) top six will be awarded maximum points; secondly, any remaining London clubs will be awarded maximum points in their fixtures; thirdly, for any remaining fixture, the club located nearest to London will be awarded maximum points.

Any disputes on awarding of points to be settled by the VAR which will award points as above.

Brent, we'll be 2nd from bottom after barcodes then.

Well said Andy @77, cancel the games, get our players fit again, go to the Winchester til this all blows over

Don't say that Mike, Michael will start off on another Calvinist rant.

Pretty nailed on No footy this weekend, next week, the weekend after.

So lets see the Premier League get out of this one.

Absolutely NO CHANCE of a fair league competition.
Forget UEFA Champions League, Europa League, Cups.
Bit sad if you lose, get knocked out.

But to be relegated, or tge possibility of being dragged into that terrible situation we found ourselves last season.

No thank you.

So Everton, none European qualified teams, weaker teams, squads better start TALKING WITH THE PREMIER LEAGUE NOW.

Lets say its 8/10sides fear dropping into a relegation zone.

The Premier League is everything.If a Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Man city cant fulfill fixtures because of European Competition, Cup fixtures.

Put out weakened teams, that say bottom 3,5,7 teams compete with its NOT FAIR,NOT COMPETITIVE.

Three points lost to City in Sept, a relegation opponent then gets three points in Mar.

Its such a mess it needs sorting out now FRANK!!!!

DIscussions now Mr Moshiri you got half a billion riding on this.

If half the Premier League teams say STOP we aint playing in a relegation fight just for the specticl of TV.
Even if the EFL promotion is cancelled fo 2022/23season give them £100million compensation.
I certainly don't wanna compete for Premier League survival playing 13games, between 1Oct and Boxing Day.?????.

I should have waited until your edit button expired Brent.

And those of you lining up the worst case scenario, please, give it about 9 or 12 days will ya ?

I hear the Europa match at Old Trafford tonight went ahead with no music played in the stadium. Now there's an idea; one which would be welcomed by those of us who have our eardrums battered at Goodison.

John, that PA system is gold. For my first 20-odd years following Everton, it was one of the few of any ground anywhere that one could actually hear. Another EFC first!

Take some ear defenders for the musical parts!

EDIT: just remembered another rare good one - of all places, the Baseball Ground.

As a Catholic, I would argue "Rest In Peace" is a predominately Catholic colloquialism.

I'd put forth the correct way for Catholics would be:

"Eternal rest grant unto her Oh Lord, and perpetual light shine upon her. May her soul, and all the souls of the faithfully departed rest in peace. Amen."

Hence the term, "Rest In Peace" being a quick, shortened version of the prayer above.

A great, great woman and leader. Personally, I think she was an amazing monarch, and I'm with Colin Glassar as I'm not a monarchist (being American). I believe her moral compass pointed north. The sheer amount of things the Queen saw, and "oversaw" (not proper English, you get the point) was massive.

I feel somewhat sad. Good, morally stout leaders are rare. Queen Elizabeth II was a gem in my opinion from afar.

So rest in peace kind lady and condolences to any and all English citizens who feel a loss at her passing, and to the Royal Family for their loss.

The world lost an amazing leader today in my opinion. Dignified beyond comprehension, she will be missed by me.

I think the actual prayer, now reciting it in my head, is this:

"Eternal rest grant unto her Oh Lord, and perpetual light shine upon her. May her soul, and all the souls of the faithfully departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen."

Small correction. Fact check as you please.

Adrian # 64, while I agree, money still talks and games will go ahead!

It's a sad thing, but that's corporate investment in the game, I'm afraid!

John (88), that thought occurred to me before kick-off against Forest the other week. Do we really need the Everton anthems blaring over the PA right up to the moment the first whistle goes? It feels like it's gone a bit overboard recently but perhaps it's just you and me!

Lyndon, it has.

Nice to be able to hear the actual conversation parts though.

Lyndon, me too, although I enjoy them they do seem to overdo it a little.

Lyndon #93,

no matter where we stand, let us have a minute or two of silence before our next game! It doesn't matter how many of us think whatever about the Monarchy, this is an institution passing away, just the same as Queen Victoria in her day!

Like it or not, but the British monarchy is of interest to the wider world...

On a lighter note:

"Juventus are preparing a straight swap deal for Aston Villa's 24-year-old Brazilian midfielder Douglas Luiz, with Italy striker Moise Kean, 22, going the other way."

OK, straight from the rumours but...

Perspective please - a woman of 96 years of constantly fabulous privilege has died in total comfort, cared for by Lord only knows how many specialists in their fields, in her 50.000 acre home - that being just one of the very many other homes she's never paid for (and Prince William has questioned this too!).

I'm by no means comparing her to that orange pillock in charge of North Korea but just why have all five main free TV channels in the UK devoted ALL their output to her death, all night up to now?

It wasn't a surprise - how could it be - and that's exemplified by the long since TV recorded "tributes" by nobodies being trotted out on all five channels.

In the meantime let's focus on what the Tories seek to slide through Parliament whilst we're all, allegedly, engulfed in unexpected grief eh?

RIP?

Revelled In Privilege - deffo.

Will #97, that will be the end of Slippy if true.

The letters R.I.P. have not always stood for rest in peace. Initially the acronym represented a Latin phrase - requiescat in pace- which means " may (the person who has died ) rest in peace.

This phrase goes back as least as far back as the 8th Century when it became commonly used on Christian gravestones where the Christians used it as a kind of prayer - a request for God to be merciful to the deceased person and for the departed soul to find eternal rest,

Eventually that Latin phrase was whittled down to three little letters. RIP became a common inscription on headstones back in the early 1600s and it wasn't long before its meaning was translated from Latin to English.

While the abbreviation has Christian origins, its meaning has become fairly widespread in Western culture, it represents a non sectarian wish for the deceased, to be offered respect and for their passing to be acknowledged by well wishers.

Don #98,

you see that as a purely domestic thing, and I could readily agree! But as a symbol to the wider world, the death of the Queen is yet another sign that the old world is now passing away!

Heat waves? Floods? Weird weather all around? Welcome Charles III to explain it all! Well, no one expects that these days... ;P

Lyndon, Will and Neil, I have had periodic email exchanges with the club about the volume. While the stadium manager has always been sympathetic the communications team seem unable to tweak the sound system to any significant extent.

My latest complaint was made after the Forest match. It was slightly more bearable at the derby game but only slightly.

I can't get past that solemn vow made two years after WW2 to dedicate her life to opening sports centres and swimming pools every week. And then to do just that. When you compare her to the narcissists of today, you do get the horrible feeling we're going backwards, not forwards.

Neil, I'm assuming it's a rumour too far. It would be suicide, yes. Things get crazier by the day.

Kevin #103,

I think that is what I most detest, if they can't accept that it actually happened. And how would they know, as that was in their grandparent's time anyway? And why would they care, as they want to believe otherwise anyway?

I guess we're destined to be grumpy gramp's, by now, no matter how much we grump... ;D

John, I guess you sit unfortunately close to a speaker? In which case I could understand. Maybe a handy couple of ear buds or light defenders, quick on and off, actually would be the answer.

Will, I see your Moise Kean and raise you, that's right, the return of Karius! Supposedly some knobs at Neaucastle think he's worth a go.

Dale, surely, surely someone is engineering these rumours and laughing at us?

Lev (#101). the "old world" has perpetually "passed away". That's life in a nutshell.

We now have a monarch from a massively dysfunctional (and that's the politest word) family, most famous for successfully talking (according to him) to plants and shagging anyone recommended to him by aged family members he trusted.

All hail Camilla.

From what little he's admittedly been permitted to say I draw hope from William actually diminishing the number of Royal residences to private enterprise, also reducing the gross servitude to the Royal family by the State at large, and finally just beginning to realise that they will always perpetuate in a symbolic way in terms of world-wide significance whilst they expound the virtues of the Peoples' Country, and that's the UK, (for now despite the real threat of Brexit disharmony from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland). It's what monarchs elsewhere in Europe do, as they cycle/walk around their fabulously successful countries.

I'd give 'em their residence of choice, and a six bedroom "cottage" elsewhere if pushed, but the rest of their vast, privileged estates need to be returned to the people.

We have enough homeless, malnourished, cold, needy citizens to occupy them after all.

I don't know Will. It is definitely getting weird but I think it is turning our way. I'm not quite there yet but I think we'll be the ones laughing by the end of this season. Plopp, Slippy and Brenda all having a pissy party, I'm hoping for the trifecta.

If I were a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel I would want to change my name.

It's been refreshing to come on here and see that the vast majority of comments have been respectful, regardless of their views on the monarchy. The Woman devoted her life to representing this country. She was still carrying out her roll and smiling for the camera less than 48hrs before she died for Christ sake. As someone posted earlier, don't go on Twitter. It's full of vile pieces of shit that represent everything that's wrong with the world today

Don #109,

There is no doubt that the late Queen's family is dysfunctional, somewhat! How could they avoid that?

My point was about the Queen herself, and from what I've read, she worked every day from daybreak until the sun went down. Whether she worked for you, and yours, I can't say! (Of course, as I'm not British...)

If she passed that devotion on to her inheritor(s?), we'll need to discover by their actions, I'm afraid.

Dale, I was a bit unclear, by "Us" I meant everyone in general not just Everton fans – but yes, there is a feeling that the order may change. There seems opportunity there if we are able to take it.

I'm now gonna feel withdrawal symptoms this weekend.

Don

You're getting a bit cantankerous in your old age mate. As Lev said, separate the person from the institution. The Queen, like her mum, did all she could to do positive in the Country, Empire and Commonwealth.

Most other monarchs, British and foreign, over the centuries have done the exact opposite.

Lev, like you, I haven't a clue as to whatever goes through the mind of any member of the Royal Family, or any other family.

That said, she and they live in a world of superb indulgence.

My daughter, aged 37 and an MA graduate, has worked for the past 12 years in the heart of London/Westminster in a really low-paid role. She's "earned" several cheap-skate promotions.

Her mission is to provide help to homeless people. Westminster is alive with them. MPs and Lords who walk departing Parliament go past all sorts of needy people in underpasses and walkways right next to Parliament. Effectively they just tread all over them, now and forever.

My daughter, in her now allegedly lofty role, has testified at inquests as to the cause of death of those she tried to save. She's got another three this month.

God save the Queen?

If ya know yer history… anyone else worried about another Charles?

Charles I – beheaded.

Charles II – rebellion led by his brother, dissolved Parliament, became like his dad, a de facto dictator.

Bonnie Prince Charlie – never even crowned.

The news say he could have picked any of his four names to use as his King name. Why not use Arthur? Come on that dude rocked, Excalibur, Merlin etc.

Why would you tempt providence by being another Charles?

Kieran (#117);

And what about a couple of Princes named William and Harold – never mind the Sussex/Hastings connection?

RIP to all the other 96-year-old women who died yesterday but won't be mentioned.

Bill Gall 100, excellent work putting ‘rest in peace' in its correct historical context.

Paul, most 96-year-old women who died yesterday would've probably been ardent royalists who loved the queen and wouldn't have expected to be mourned by a grateful nation.

ps: I wonder if the rs fans will boo the National Anthem next time it's played?

A morning of reflection. I feel that she was exactly what a constitutional Monarch should be. Politically independent and the constant who served the country and not for her own political reasons.

There will always be an elite, as much as we would like wealth spread more evenly. That's the world. Communism, Capitalism, Monarchy. It doesn't matter.

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Ask those who lived under the Soviet and East European regimes of the late 20th Century. Include China in that equation. It doesn't matter what system you have in place, there will be an elite that are perceived as having privilege by the workers.

Paul, if we put a football angle on that, it's a bit like saying we shouldn't mention our idols like Dixie Dean, Alan Ball or Howard Kendall in any other way than me or you when then pass.

People are born into or work their way onto a certain stage. It's what they do with it when they are given the privilege or the platform that counts.

She played a good game in my opinion.

Colin, they have no class. Booing and singing that song over it. The irony being that a large percentage of them will go back to their middle class or higher homes in London, Devon or elsewhere.

I'm leading a comfortable life so no working class hero from me (I know and don't forget my roots). Same city, different worlds.

Don @109. The real world. Our world. Best post of the lot. I tug my forelock to you sir.,

Obviously a very sad time for her close family and the end of an era, and a constant, for the UK.

I never met her so can't give a view on what she was like as a person but it's been reported on the BBC that her horses respected her because "Here was a woman who knew what we were all about". The BBC's Nicholas Wychell reported that 'Her corgis had no idea of her real status'.

No doubt it'll get sillier as we get nearer the funeral.

Maybe it's now time reflect if Britain actually needs a monarchy in the 21st Century or, if it does, does it need such a bloated extended family supported at great public expense.

God Save the King.

Don, which fabulously successful European countries are you talking of?

I travel to Europe frequently and they have the same problems with poverty and homeless people that we have. Germany, a country I admire for its standard of living and visit at least 3 times a year, is no different from the UK once you hit the urban areas.

Similarly, outside the Brussels bubble, Belgium (Monarchy) and the Netherlands (Monarchy) have similar class and social issues to the UK. Likewise the Scandics (Denmark, Norway, Sweden – all Monarchies).

No different. The grass isn't greener in those fabulously successful countries.

The UK is a successful country. The 5th biggest economy in the world and second biggest in Europe (Europe not being the EU, the EU not being Europe).

We are very good at putting ourselves down as a nation.

I'm neither a devout Royalist, nor a rabid Republican, but I'm not sure I can take ten days of this mad bollocks.

I really hope the authorities don't bow to the hysteria and cancel football matches etc. I appreciate it's the end of an era, and the old dear has been with us through thick and thin, god bless her and all that, but let's just do all the pageantry, have a few TV specials about her, and get on with life, eh?

It's like nothing else matters. Seems like only yesterday, the news was awash with how we were all going to freeze to death this winter and have to eat our children because of the cost of living crisis.

Oh, it was only yesterday!

Very sorry to hear of the death of the Queen. I think she remained a constant for many people during some troubled times.

I think she also provided checks and balances for some of the dreadful politicians in the Westminster trough. Her experience will be missed.

Dale @127 agreed, and it's just a shame her last official appointment was meeting the new (latest) Prime Minister. And she did look very frail then.

She didn't provide checks and balances, that wasn't in her remit.

She was a pure figurehead with no powers whatsoever, that's the whole point of the modern monarchy. She was very good at her job, but it didn't involve any politics.

Although, I'm sure she would have liked to behead a few of the politicians who came before her.

Charles, on the other hand, finds it very difficult to stick to his job of handshaking and cutting ribbons, and, unfortunately, quite frequently tells us what's going on in that mediocre brain of his.

He'll probably have us all on homeopathic medicine and living in new builds in the style of feudal villages unless someone keeps an eye on him.

But a weekly sounding board, Michael. To give the PM of the day food for thought.

I think King Charles III (sounds odd saying it) will be a mediocre Monarch. Putting a lighthearted slant on it, but from a footballing perspective, it's like being the one who has to follow Alex Ferguson at Manchester United.

I think over history it's generally followed that path. Strong Monarch respected by the nation followed by one who is lesser and not as well thought of.

Playing Devil's Advocate though, whilst many of my generation and older remember his tree-hugging, plant-taking days, was he not talking about being an environmentalist before if became trendy?

Now, world leaders talk of the need to protect the planet. Like him or not (I'm not convinced), he was doing it when people called him an idiot for doing so. Ahead of the game?

I read this morning that Richard Masters, the CEO of the Premier League is saying that the postponement of games he believes won't be mandatory and it will be up to individual clubs to decide.

I can't see how that is any way plausible and I think today the Premier League will be in discussions with the Government who I am sure will want a universal approach, rather than individual clubs making the decision on whether to play or not.

I remember the day Howard Kendall died, and going to a very sombre Goodison, to watch Everton lose 3-0 to Man Utd, with my point being that “life goes on”.

Next weekend will be different, I'm sure, especially on the day of her funeral, but she was a much loved, and very respected lady, so I'm also sure not everyone will have the same thoughts as myself.

Nick (112), good post.

Like you, I'm pleased that the Queen has been shown so much respect on here. As you say, whatever your views on the Monarchy, I'd find it very hard not to show compassion for an old lady and close family, a lady who basically gave up her life, however grand, to do the duty she was born to do and did it to the best of her ability.

Goodnight, God bless Ma'am.

Brian @131.

So, if Arsenal wanted to play but we didn't – knowing we have injured players – how would that work?

I make a distinction between the individual and the institution.

There's a family that has just lost a 96-year-old member. I never met the individual but often saw her on TV. I never heard a disrespectful word from her, never saw a disrespectful act by her. That can't be said for some members of the family but I can empathise with anybody who has lost a family member.

I've often seen (and am seeing now) people talk about her and gush over her as if they personally knew her – and they possibly felt that they did. Each to their own – though I'll never forget Charles's aside to Camilla about “these awful people”.

Much of the antipathy to all this probably derives not from a dislike of the person but a distaste for the institution. I find it bizarre that people can gush about a person they have never met.

I find it even more bizarre that people who have so little can gush about an institution that epitomises wealth and privilege; wealth acquired historically through dubious means; a privileged institution that is a bulwark for a wider system of privilege that perpetuates shocking inequality and misery – oh the irony of the current choice many are going to have to make between food and heat.

This is an institution that we recently learned is secretly consulted over certain types of proposed legislation – when the monarchy is now meant to simply sign off legislation already agreed in parliament.

The institution doesn't act in selfless service to the country – we pay for their services. The individual that heads the institution always has the choice of withdrawing from the “duties” – and the privileges; and some have put their toe in that water.

A genuine RIP to the woman – I actually did have to catch my emotion when her death was announced.

A heartfelt wish that we will one day bury the institution.

I hope not, Brian. There is no requirement to cancel games. Pay respects, but carry on.

Paul 134,

I can't understand why Masters said what he did without waiting for the outcome of their meeting with the Government which I believe is today at 11.00 am.

You can't leave it to individual clubs to decide for the very reason you state.

When peace comes, remember it will be for us, the children of today, to make the world of tomorrow a better and happier place!

Very good post, Brent, and thinking about that 11 o'clock meeting, if the first thing Liz Truss does as Prime Minister is cancel the weekend's football, then I don't think she's going to last very long in the job!

Danny 136,

My own feeling is that this week's games should be called off, Cricket, Golf and Rugby Union have already cancelled today's competitions and will decide today when to restart.

Both the Golf and the Cricket have already started and will miss today, so hard to see football going ahead.

Regardless of the reason, Arsenal away is a fixture I'll happily postpone until we've achieved safety, like in 2021-22.

If it's the discretion of clubs to cancel that leads to more skulduggery. Arsenal know we don't have Pickford. Other teams on a roll or no injuries and so on...

I'll be shocked if games go ahead tomorrow and also suspect the funeral will be held on Saturday 17th which will take that out too.

In a very cluttered season, this is going to back it up even more.

My main interest in Queen Elizabeth is she was born the same year as my mother, 1926. My wife's mother was also born the same year. So since Mum's passing, I have had might have been thoughts seeing the Queen since then.

I am not a monarchist and believe the money could be better spent. The UK do like their Royal Head of State and will pay for it and a 10-day mourning period is appropriate. The present government, whoever they are, will welcome a period of media quietness and will encourage. It is one of the perks of a Constitutional Monarchy.

Like all families, the Royal Family to a greater or lesser extent are dysfunctional. The Queen is Head of State of a dysfunctional society. She was dysfunctional at times herself. She was an excellent Queen.

As for religion, we are entering the realm of Charles's 'people of faith', so a lot more will be appropriate during the grieving period and funeral period than before.

Elizabeth R, RIP.

Did not realise this was a Catholic response. You learn something new every day. RC myself therefore can use it.

I was sure that Everton were going to beat Arsenal and I am a bit disappointed. It looks like there will be football in July next year, on top of the Transfer Window.

Does the Championship and League continue? I watched Middlesbrough v Sunderland on Sunday. Simms played well, but Middlesborough's centre-forward was really good.

So if no football tomorrow definitely no football next weekend, then a 2 week international break. No club football for a month.

I think we're jumping the gun a bit to assume all those games would be postponed this month.

I may be wrong but I expect this weekend's Premier League games to go ahead. And the only games affected next weekend would be if any fell on the day of her funeral, which has still not been decided. They would be moved to either the day before or the day after.

We should know for certain in a couple of hours... although why it is taking them that long to figure it out is quite honestly mind-boggling.

Maybe it's because they don't really want to cancel this weekend's fixtures, Michael? 17 days mourning, which will continue for 7 days after her funeral, must mean she is getting laid to rest, next Sunday, which makes sense, when you consider they don't want the day to become a bank holiday.

Speaking of Arsenal vs Everton matches, I was in Rome visiting the Vatican Museum when we played them in February 2020.

Obviously I kept an eye on the score and, just after I had bought a mug depicting Raphael's superb painting the School of Athens, learned we were 1-0 up in the first minute. "Too soon,' I thought, and so it proved, we lost 3-2.

In my mind the central image of Raphael's painting, with Aristotle in imagined dialogue with Plato, was transformed into one asking the other the score. The philosopher holding one finger up is saying “1-0 already but think we've scored too early”.

Trite as it may seem, that treasured mug is forever known in our house as the Arsenal cup! On the bright side, we just avoided the Covid lockdown and completed our holiday as it was then confined to the top of Italy…

I'm a self confessed Elizbethian Brian, but in her own spirit, life goes on.

A bit dramatic, but I attended many short ceremonies where we put lads onto the back of transport aircraft in wooden boxes draped in the Union Flag for their final journey home. A feeling of sadness, but I don't mind admitting, those attending to pay respects were glad it wasn't us.

Once the aircraft took off, we turned to the right and got back to business. Sadness and reflection yes, but no time for sentiment.

I felt like that philosopher when Louis Saha scored against Chelsea at Wembley, Larry, but I feel like a clairvoyant, when I picture Lampard dancing around the corner flag next May, fingers🤞

No finer words spoken than the truth Danny, but rules have always been decided and determined by the people in charge. We will see...

Tony (149), would you believe I felt exactly the same about that Saha goal?

We had been shopping I rushed home early and caught the first few minutes. When my wife arrived she noticed the score and said "That's good, isn't it?"

My response was "No, you need to score in the last minute against Chelsea – not the first."

Let's hope your clairvoyancy re Lampard is justified…

Brent #135

The most sensible post I've read amidst all this hysteria. Very sad for her immediate family and the end of an era for the UK but people really need to get a grip.

No doubt the genuflecting will ramp up over the next 9 days.

'A decision on weekend Premier League and EFL fixtures will be made after a review of the official mourning guidance, plus consultation with other sports and the Department for Culture Media and Sport.

It is also scheduled to be the opening weekend of the Women's Super League and the Premiership Rugby season, while the Great North Run is due to take place on Sunday.

The Irish FA has announced that all football in Northern Ireland scheduled for this weekend will not take place. '

Can a minute's silence be observed and the anthem played at all games? Seems more appropriate for football to pay its respects. The funeral will probably be the only day there is no football, if there is a clash.

Seriously, Larry, I once met a friend of Bill Kenwright's on the train from London, when rushing my partner home early from a lovely Christmas break, to get to Goodison to watch Everton playing against Chelsea.

This friend of Bill's was shocked that I detested his mate, confirmed that Bill was looking for investment, rather than to sell, and pleaded with me that if I was on the train going back to London, not to give our chairman a hard time.

He showed me his tie, and said he better put it on because it was given to him when he last watched Everton, which was for that Chelsea FA Cup Final. I got into Goodison, Everton again scored in the first minute, and I instinctively thought of the jinxes, Jonah mate, especially when Chelsea beat us 2-1, in a game that stopped Everton being unbeaten at Goodison for a calendar year!

I've often thought that Everton will win the cup once Kenwright departs, so maybe we will have to wait a little bit longer….. But god knows, it's already been a very long wait.

"The government's national mourning guidance states cancelling or postponing sports fixtures is not obligatory and "at the discretion of individual organisations", including on the day of the state funeral."

"On the day of the funeral, the guidance suggests events could be rescheduled so that they do not clash with the timings of the service and that organisers could hold a period of silence or play the National Anthem at events, with players wearing black armbands."

Back when things were a bit more, for want of a better word, stuffier and protocol-ridden. George VI died on Wednesday 6 February 1952.

On 9 February 1952, 40,535 watched Everton beat Leicester 2-0. (Hickson, McNamara).

The Funeral was 9 days later, Friday 15 February; the next day, we lost away to Blackburn.

Both games presumably part of a full program.

I had 2 tickets for that Cup Final but gave them to my son and younger brother to hopefully allow them to witness us win a trophy.

I went to Wembley with them to soak up the atmosphere but then made my way to watch the match in the Blue Check bar nearby. As I walked down the road from the Stadium, I saw other ticketless Evertonians in a hotel bar nearby celebrating the Saha goal. My instinct (right or wrong) was "too early".

Frank's next corner flag homage to his father is coming. Hopefully sooner than May because we have to win the League Cup at some point.

Following the death of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, this evening's PL2 fixture between Wolves and Everton has been postponed.

The Under-21 match was due to take place at Aggborough at 7 pm, but the decision has been made alongside the official mourning guidance.

No sporting events will take place on Friday as a mark of respect, while a decision on the other weekend fixtures will be communicated in due course.

A date for the rescheduled Under-21s fixture will be confirmed in the near future.

And this weekend's games have just been called off

I'm going to pause this thread for a spell... please post on the main thread now.

Thanks