by   |   21/08/2022  81 Comments  [Jump to last]

There is a lot of focus on incomings but, in order to balance the books, we still need to clear more deadwood – despite some major clearances in the summer.

By my reckoning, some of our deadwood has now fossilized, meaning there’s no lingering signs of life at all, and these players (like Gomes and Gbamin) may have to remain here as archaeological artifacts until their contracts expire. Mina is perilously close to this point but his contract expires in 9 months so he won’t need a display case in our museum.

Iwobi was in the deadwood pile for a long time before greenery was spotted and now he’s blossomed into a vibrant tree again. But in his place, it looks like it’s time for Allan to be felled and taken to the wood shed. Nkounkou is a new arrival there too.

Keane, Rondon and Davies are in the pile but, due to a lack of new timber, we may have to keep them for a bit to remain structurally sound.

Article continues below video content

Doucouré has deteriorated rapidly and, with Onana here, we can probably put him out back too. Then, in a few months, we will need to do another durability test on Holgate and Godfrey to see if they have any life left. Virginia and Lonergan seem to complete the deadwood pile.

So – despite some major forest clearances over the last 18 months, with Delph, Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Besic, Tarashaj. We are still a major fire hazard with all this rotten timber still around. And this, in conjunction with the Board of Directors, is why we are struggling. Frank unfortunately isn’t like the fairy Godmother who bought Pinocchio to life.

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Reader Comments (81)

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John Kavanagh
1 Posted 22/08/2022 at 09:54:14
Don't forget to add the trophy cabinet. Under Blue Bill's excellent new improved pragmatic* leadership, we won't be needing that either.

* As determined by an entirely independent review of the board conducted by, ahem, the board.

James Hughes
2 Posted 22/08/2022 at 10:11:32

Billy Boy flogged that years ago as it was surplus to requirement. It was the same time as he was flogging everything not nailed down. He bought a flat pack from IKEA and will have it assembled if the need arises.

Robert Williams
3 Posted 22/08/2022 at 10:34:29
I wonder how old some of these players really are, Rondon, Allan, Alli, Gomes?

Dendrochronology is a system that can determine the age of dead wood but it is important to carry out such tests before the rot sets in.

Alas, poor Everton!!

Dave Abrahams
4 Posted 22/08/2022 at 10:47:51
I think Billy Boy spent a lot of Moshiri’s money on seeds and is waiting for that huge tree to blossom and bring plenty of brand new wood into the club.
Robert Williams
5 Posted 22/08/2022 at 10:54:04

Not sure about the money being spent on 'seeds' ... more like 'planks' mate.

Dave Abrahams
6 Posted 22/08/2022 at 10:59:57
Robert (5), yes, I think you are right.

“Planks” with no resale value!!

Sam Hoare
7 Posted 22/08/2022 at 11:52:17
I would say there's actually much less expensive deadwood than there used to be. Only Gbamin and Gomes are well-paid players who are contributing little or nothing.

Keane – 3 centre-backs and Mina being unreliable means we need him

Allan – still a good defensive midfielder when fit. Will keep unless a transfer bid comes in.

Gbamin – Imagine we'll loan him out again paying half his wages

Gomes – Like Gbamin, I imagine the best we'll get is a subsidised loan.

Rondon – Not on huge wages, will stay and be a reserve striker.

Nkounkou – low wages, will be sold or loaned out.

Davies – on low wages, will stay unless there is a transfer bid.

Doucouré – useful when fit, will stay and be squad player or starter.

Jim Bennings
8 Posted 22/08/2022 at 12:10:21
I feel like the whole name of our club is simply deadwood sometimes.

No matter what we try and do, players we change, managers, it just seems to all fall back into the same old malaise as what went before.

We've got to give Lampard the season, give him time to learn on his mistakes and he has made them, we know he has, that doesn't mean he should be sacked after the first woeful run we hit.

My biggest worry is soft shite Moshiri getting fidgety fingers again come the inevitable bottom three placing in November and he thinks sacking another will solve everything.

We have until next week to give ourselves and Frank Lampard a fighting chance, once that transfer window slams shut then we will have a clearer idea of what's to be.

Christopher Timmins
9 Posted 22/08/2022 at 12:37:36
The sins of the past will wash themselves out over the next two seasons, unfortunately, past mistakes are having an impact on the current transfer situation.

Lampard is a young and inexperienced manager who is learning on the job. I for one am happy to stick with him. He inherited a mess and it will take time to rectify all the wrongs of the past.

Eddie Howe is doing good work at Newcastle, as is Arteta at Arsenal. Arteta, needed time to turn things around and owners to keep their nerve when things were not going well or when hard decisions needed to be made.

Let's keep our nerve!

Robert Williams
10 Posted 22/08/2022 at 15:18:00
Chris @ 9: 'I for one am happy to stick with him. He inherited a mess and it will take time to rectify all the wrongs of the past.'

So am I, Chris – this mess will take years to sort out, Lampard should have the full board's backing and the fans as well. If not, we are really in deep shit!!
Kieran Kinsella
11 Posted 22/08/2022 at 15:30:43

I think Arteta is a good comparison. Similar mess there and I for one was critical of him but, given time, he seems to have turned the corner. I think Frank can do likewise with support.

Nick Page
12 Posted 22/08/2022 at 15:34:51
Why do you all keep thinking it's the manager? The Everton deadwood is everywhere but the manager. The debate isn't about Lampard or any of the managers but the shite they have going on behind their backs.

Liverpool have a brilliant set-up because they have great owners who understand sports management. Klopp doesn't buy their players but he provides a backroom setup that sets everything in place.

Sean Roe
13 Posted 22/08/2022 at 15:38:01
I'm not sure I agree about Davies, he shouldn't be a starter for me but we need squad depth for cup games and injuries.

I agree about Gomes and Gbamin, and Mina because of his injury record. Shame really because he's probably our best defender when fit.

Brent Stephens
14 Posted 22/08/2022 at 16:01:32
Nick #12a: "Why do you all keep thinking it's the manager?"

Nick, do you actually read the posts? Who are "all" the posters saying it's the manager's fault?

Robert Tressell
15 Posted 22/08/2022 at 16:26:22
Sam, good points. And out of that lot Davies, Rondon, Townsend, Doucoure and Allan are now less than a year till the end of their contracts.

It's more about bringing players in now than shipping them out.

Brian Harrison
16 Posted 22/08/2022 at 16:28:18
Nick 12,

While there are many things wrong at Everton, you can't exonerate this manager or the ones who proceeded him. We are one of the biggest spenders in the Premier League over the last 6 years that Moshiri has been the major shareholder.

So who is it that is identifying players to be signed? Mainly all the managers and with a little help from Moshiri listening to his agent friends.

The problem with this club is, apart from Ancelotti, the rest were not equipped to oversee the massive spending that took place.

Moshiri sacked Martinez and hired Koeman who was a great player but his managerial CV was nothing to write home about, and should never have been allowed to spend the money he did.

Silva was another who didn't have the experience, just like his predecessor.

Allardyce, whose claim to fame before taking West Brom down was never being relegated – was that ever a criteria for managing Everton?.

Then the horrendous decision of appointing Benitez which the world and his wife knew it wouldn't end well.

Then we appoint Lampard, again like Koeman a great player but very little experience and, despite a healthy budget, failed to get Derby promoted and was later sacked after a very short spell at Chelsea.

He has failed to sign a striker having watched Richarlison carry this club, but he left over 7 weeks ago, so who is responsible for our lack of attacking options if it isn't Lampard and Thelwell?

Last season, our fans were magnificent and played as big a part as any player in keeping this club in the Premier League. But I think to expect that intensity of creating the same atmosphere across this season is a hard ask.

Peter Neilson
17 Posted 22/08/2022 at 17:11:13

I think they're scuppered by having to pay for players on instalment plans. Cornet fell through because Burnley wanted all the cash up front. It was reported that both Onana and McNeil are being paid for over time.

Decent strikers on "buy now, pay later" are going to be hard to find. Even if we sell Gordon, there's no guarantee the money will be used for a striker.

Six years of terrible management and stewardship of the club has got us here. I'm not going out of my way to give them a pass but that's the way it looks to me. The fault lies higher up.

18 Posted 22/08/2022 at 18:28:03
If we don't sign a striker, we are up Shit Creek without a paddle.

Sitting here relying on Dominic Calvert-Lewin to come back in October, it will take until the middle of November before he gets sharpness but, based on last season, he never ever regained it.

His game was all about athletism, the last 12 months has to have taken something away from his game, it's human nature on the demands on the body.

I can't imagine we'll get 15 starts out of Calvert-Lewin this season.

So basically it's 10 days to bring in two front men that are capable of getting about 18 goals between them to ease some burden.

Will Mabon
19 Posted 22/08/2022 at 18:30:18
The Phantom posts again...
Ian Bennett
20 Posted 22/08/2022 at 20:35:07


Jerome Shields
21 Posted 23/08/2022 at 04:39:31
Kieran #11,

Arsenal are in danger of being in breach of the FFP rules. That is the European competition equivalent of the Premier League Profit and Sustainability Rules which Everton are struggling with. It's early in the season for Arsenal and the dry weather helps their game plan and players at the moment

Really think your article is spot on, even will let you edge it with Davies, for strict clarity, such is its quality. There has been really poor recruitment (weak selection predictor and medical assessment) with contracts to match and clear absence of long-term planning at Everton.

Of course, so many managers over the same amount of years has resulted in a fire-fighting selection mentally, which ends up adding to the tinder.

For years, I have thought that there is an absence at Everton of the realisation that trees get older and bigger as a fire risk. Everton being a seller club of its best trees just adds to the risk.

Great article, Kieran. By far the best on Everton's perennial Deadwood problem, with a great explanation theme.

Gerard McKean
22 Posted 23/08/2022 at 07:10:18
Kieran you make a sound and logical argument using an analogy that is apt, illustrative and consistent. I found your article really interesting.

I'm in the same camp as Ian Bennett and others who point out that the rot took hold higher up the chain. There is simply no or at best very poor oversight at EFC of matters that successful clubs do in their sleep.

Two examples of many: how did a “CEO” with an accountant owner not understand the implications of FFP? And how does the medical department answer to the questionable record of signing players with injuries and not protecting younger players from avoidable risk of injury?

'Due diligence' and 'Everton FC' are words that don't belong in the same sentence. There are a myriad of simple steps available to improve this club, but those in positions to take them can't see the wood for the trees, to continue Kieran's fine analogy.

Danny O’Neill
23 Posted 23/08/2022 at 07:33:31
I think there are a few clubs flirting with FFP / Profit and Sustainability.

I'd keep an eye on Villa.

I haven't done the maths, but they seem to have more than spent the Grealish money if you go back 3 or 4 seasons.

It surprised me but conversely doesn't surprise me there are loose rumours of them open to offers for Watkins. At some point, they are going to have to balance the books in a similar way we are having to now.

Christine Foster
24 Posted 23/08/2022 at 07:34:04
Brian, 16# I don't believe for one moment that players at this club are bought and sold at the behest of the manager. He may have recommendations made in discussion with the DoF, but ultimately they question of buy and sell, are made by Kenwright and Moshiri, not even the board. If an offer comes in, who makes the call? Not Lampard, not Thewell. Who negotiates purchases? Not lampard, not Thewell. All they can do is recommend who is bought and who may be OK to sell.

How the team plays, who is selected, formation, coaching and player management is the manager, recruitment, development if the DoF.

It's a jointly owned business run by two people who don't feel the need or have to act in anyone else's interests. The primary owner may have changed but the golden rule hasn't - Act in self interest first.

Tony Hill
25 Posted 23/08/2022 at 07:36:57
Very true Christine @24, and that is the root of our failings.
Bernie Quinn
26 Posted 23/08/2022 at 08:13:15
Christine at 24 - I've been saying that - or summat like that for ages - that it isn't Frank and Kevin's handling of the incoming players at fault, but rather the numpties upstairs. Clearly I am not as clear with my posts Love, as you are as I never get replies - but I'm with you all the way.
And Keiran; I saw the heading to this article and immediately opened it up - B UT you never mentioned Doris Day once! Shame!
Christine Foster
27 Posted 23/08/2022 at 11:04:28
Bernie, 26# I feel like déjà vu, been here before with so many managers, let's face it, even Ancelotti never got the backing he wanted, so what chance have all the others?

One could say they got everything they wanted but clearly that isn't true either, as managers had to deal with an influx of players they never wanted or expected. They were just told to make a team with them.

The one constant (or two for that matter) has been Kenwright and Moshiri. One has spent his money dependent on the alleged footballing experience of the other.

I have sort of given up as everything I have written, I have written before and no-one is listening anyway.

I think Lampard has been told he can have a centre-forward but has to sacrifice Gordon. He isn't happy as once again the promised backing for the manager is bullshit / double talk. The funny thing is we look a couple of players short of a decent team.

How did we get into this mess? Doesn't matter. We know whose fault it is.

Whose fault is it we weren't alerted to FFP? That was such a fuck-up it has threatened the survival of the club. For that reason above all other, the Chairman should be sacked. That's HIS duty of care on the board.

I hope Lampard stays, his head and heart are in the right place and I can see progress. But even he must be down-hearted with the chairman and owner. Whilst the so-called strategic review has stated the bleeding obvious, nothing has been done, or will be done, to address the most obvious problem of them all.

In years past, the media thought that Kenwright was the best chairman a club could get, ignoring the way the club was run, the shady associates, the loans in the BVI... etc etc... he may love the club, but he loves himself more. Now the media see the running of the club as the problem. Forgive me if I don't cheer..

So Bernie, forgive me if I don't post as often, don't write the keyboard warrior articles I used to, you see it's getting harder to love something that you know you will never walk away from, but can never change. I don't hate, but I despise what he has done to my club. (Note, technically of course it's Moshiri's but morally it's ours!)

Jim Jennings
28 Posted 23/08/2022 at 17:25:31
Off topic but whatever happened to Darren Hind and Jay Wood {BRZ}?
Bernie Quinn
29 Posted 23/08/2022 at 20:21:17
Golly-gosh, Christine, you used the 'F' word!!! You must be really upset. Don't be Love, you will always have me at your side, holding your sword. I find it extrodinary how you write the words that I want to say. Please don't ever stop.

I'm sure the numpties - Kenwright and Moshiri can't be that thick-skinned all the time? I dread the thought of Frank eventually saying "Fuck it – I'm outa here!"

Christine Foster
30 Posted 23/08/2022 at 00:02:00
Actually Bernie I used four **** in my post which was adjusted by Michael or Lyndon so technically although I did think it, I didn't actually use it! But no matter because frustration gets the better of me, it's disheartening.
Kieran Kinsella
31 Posted 24/08/2022 at 00:35:11
Jerome and Gerard

Thanks fellows. It’s a topic I probably spend too much time thinking about.

Jim Jennings,

Jay Wood (BRZ) returned to explain his experience a few months ago. Life priorities was the gist. As for the other fellow? No idea but I’m enjoying the silence

Dupont Koo
32 Posted 24/08/2022 at 03:04:32
Thank you Kieran for the analogy used!

Thank you, Christine, for being eloquent enough on #KenwrightOutASAP!

My NBA fandom with Toronto Raptors since its inception in 1995 has prepared me well for looking at Team Deadwoods until its first ever Trophy in 2019: counting down towards the expiry of the Deadwoods actually can get one surviving the worst & darkest of the days! Without those expiring contracts, the team cannot sign anything else due to the Salary Cap (a more stringent FFP for those of you across the pond).

So, other than last season's roller coaster ride, counting down the expiry contracts of Delph, Sigurdsson, Kenny & Tosun actually afforded me quiet optimism (£350k per week of wages saved!) along the way.

So, join me, my fellow Evertonians, in counting down the contracts of Allan, Mina, Doucoure, Townsend & Nkounkou! That's £400k+ per week of wages that we can re-invest next summer! (Too bad that Rondon was given a Player Option to extend his contract for 1 more year next June!)

Jerome Shields
33 Posted 24/08/2022 at 03:39:14
Christine #24

I think you are right regarding transfers. Actually, I have always thought that was the case.

It is especially the case in any part-swap deals, which seems to have outside football involvement in selection. Which appears to suit Profit and Sustainability Rules rather than actual player requirements of the manager.

Part of the deadwood problem is the manager on a limited budget bringing in players for a quick fix in the hope (maybe even hinted at in the interview) that there will be money for them to spend in the next couple of Transfer windows.

Inevitability they find this is not the case. Frank is not the first manager to find his plans shoved aside when an existing player's market value increases.

One-year contract extensions are another Everton foible. I take it Coleman is on another one-year extension? Rondon???

Mike Gaynes
34 Posted 24/08/2022 at 06:35:21
Kieran, Darren made a cameo appearance on the Fleetwood Forum yesterday. Sorry you weren't there to greet him.

As to the subject at hand, honestly, I just don't understand the continuing focus on it. Every club, and for that matter every organization, has deadwood. In the past 2 years Everton has moved nonproductive players Tosun, Kenny, Virginia, Delph, Sigurdsson, Bernard, Bolasie, Baningime, King, Pennington, Walcott, Schneiderlin, Garbutt, Sandro, Niasse, Tarashaj, Martina, Olsen and Besic off our payroll, along with a couple of good ones like Digne and James.

That is a massive clearout by any standards.

Yet we're still obsessed with the few who are left, and even adding a few to the pile who most definitely don't belong there (Doucouré?? Really?? And temporarily sidetracked young talent like Godfrey? No. Just no.)

Sorry, Kieran, my man, I just don't see the point of this exercise.

And Dupont #32, I won't be joining you in eagerly counting down the contracts of Allan and Townsend until I know a little more about what we have in Onana, Vinagre and McNeil.

Bernie Quinn
35 Posted 24/08/2022 at 08:44:10

Please do not stop your posts. I don't care how many four-letter words you use. I have just read Brian Murray on another thread, saying he has come round to your way of thinking. You are on the boil, Love and I'm proud of my Liverpool - Irish - Kiwi Friend!!

Brian Murray
36 Posted 24/08/2022 at 08:56:59

If no one is prepared to listen and never change the hierarchy, then – as I keep getting told by the happy clappers… What's the point?

Bernie Quinn
37 Posted 24/08/2022 at 09:07:14

I should apologise to you for using your name in my post to Christine without your knowledge but I used it in a positive manner to let Christine know that we do listen to her and we must not stop posting these anti-Kenwright comments. Sooner or later even the 'happy-clappers will see the light.

Michael Lynch
39 Posted 24/08/2022 at 09:16:47
Our problem isn't the deadwood we've accumulated over the past decade, it's whether we are adding more deadwood to the pile.

Our player acquisition has been appalling under a number of managers and DoF, and there's not much sign of it changing.

This year, we've brought in:

Patterson who looks like a half-decent player, but has a long way to go;

Mykolenko who to me looks bang average at best in Premier League terms;

Dele Alli, Van de Beek, El Ghazi – all complete wastes of space but luckily all three will soon be just bad memories;

McNeil, who has looked utterly lost in the time he's spent on the pitch so far (I do wonder if he was signed without Lampard's approval, because he seems to have no idea what to do with him);

Vinagre, who probably won't get much game time, and ;

Onana who I'm hoping will be the one bright spot.

So I'm more worried about the wood that hasn't died yet, and the wood that is still to come.

Gerard McKean
40 Posted 24/08/2022 at 09:17:52
Wasn't there a film some years ago called Gaynes World, or something like that?

In today's Gaynes World, those who don't agree with the sage himself are wrong. This includes just about everyone who wrote a response to Kieran's excellent talking point, the vast majority of whom thought Kieran was absolutely on the money. But the sage thought differently so you're/we're wrong and he's right.

This reminds me of an old joke in Germany where radio programmes are interrupted to warn drivers on a specific section of a particular autobahn that someone has entered the autobahn on the wrong side and is now driving towards oncoming vehicles. Drivers are warned that there is a “Geisterfahrer” (ghost driver) on the autobahn and to stay in the far right lane. The Geisterfahrer himself hears the same message of course and his reaction is to think: one Geisterfahrer? There's hundreds of ‘em!

A bit of personal background: I've been spreading the true word for more decades than I care to remember and I've converted people all over the world to Everton. I love hosting them (and often their families) when they visit and I get them tickets for the match by hook or by crook.

I welcome their views and insights on EFC, as I do with great interest those expressed here on TW by all Evertonians near and far. But what I don't like is when someone sets themself up as some kind of Delphic oracle and invariably chooses assertive language to leave the rest of us in no doubt that they are right – and if you don't agree, you're wrong. Mr Gaynes, you are that Geisterfahrer.

Every organisation has deadwood? Really? Even if that were correct, it doesn't make it okay. All the examples you cite of deadwood having been moved on were in most cases deadwood on arrival.

Even a record signing like Sigurdsson; nothing to do with his current situation and everything to do with Kenwright getting involved in a bidding war with himself to sign a player no other club was in for.

The question is not how much praise to lavish on EFC for getting rid of this deadwood but how the club ever came to sign the likes of Schneiderlin and Sandro in the first place.

I don't think Kieran or any of those of us who applauded his article are “obsessed” and it is quite legitimate to wonder why after such promising starts Doucouré and Godfrey have not kicked on as much as we'd hoped. But we're patient and we hope they'll justify our optimism. The point being: they have yet to do so.

As for your dismissive put down of Dupont: yes the likes of Allan and Townsend have been very good players in their time but that time was at other clubs and they cannot give EFC the consistently high standards of fitness and pace and hunger we need from everyone on the pitch.

So, by your own admission, you don't get it. Try seeing it from a perspective outside of Gaynes World. I often suspect that there are people who post deferential banalities about the way this club is run on TW and elsewhere knowing full well that there are minions who trawl through related comments and articles every day and report back to the well-paid deadwood running the club, and these posters do so in the hope of being rewarded on a rare trip to Liverpool with an invitation to tour the club's Liver Building premises and maybe even be granted an audience with the Queen of Deadwood herself.

[Of course any likeness to any person(s) named in this post is purely coincidental as these thoughts being in support of the original article must be de facto purely fictitious.]

Robert Tressell
41 Posted 24/08/2022 at 09:42:13
I agree with Michael #39 about the accumulation of deadwood.

I also, like Dupont, am keen to see us build a midfield that doesn't have Doucouré or Allan in it.

I regularly come back to this but the solution in both cases is to buy particular profiles of players:

1. Talented U23s (generally lower wages, can be part of the squad over a 5-year period or more) – accepting they could take time to develop. Southampton are doing this but at high risk because they're largely ignoring the next two categories.

2. 23- to 26-year-olds with ~100 games under their belt (like Arteta, Cahill, Jagielka, Lescott, Neville etc) but modest wage demands and small(ish) fees. Classic Moyes signings – this delivers the stable squad and decent standard of player. You can then switch to the former category in particular.

3. Older frees (like Barry, Townsend and, this season, Tarkowski) provided they don't have exorbitant wage demands. This helps category 1 players bed in.

I can't generally see why we would ever spend more than about £20M on a player either.

Steve Pickering
43 Posted 24/08/2022 at 10:10:36
Does anyone know where we are with offloading Gomes and other no-hopers?
Clive Rogers
44 Posted 24/08/2022 at 10:19:28

It looks like there is no interest which is not surprising due to the salaries they are on. Gomes is on £112k per week and is with us till June 2024. Mina is on £120k but is rarely available.

Andrew Keatley
45 Posted 24/08/2022 at 16:04:08
Robert (41)

The reason why we often spend over £20 million on a player is because we are Everton Football Club, and we play in the English Premier League. The conveyor belt we are on demands that sort of budget.

Nottingham Forest, Leeds Utd and Brentford have all bought players for over £20 million this summer. Do you want us to be left behind when it comes to promising young players from the Championship or the continent who command that sort of fee?

I think these attempts of yours to simplify recruitment are ill-thought through and smack of someone who doesn't really wish to concede that they are unaware of the complexities at play when it comes to signing players for this great club. We are not Brighton, Red Bull Salzburg, Red Bull Leipzig, or Rennes, or any other club whose recruitment principle you admire.

Gerard (40) - I do not always agree with Mr Gaynes but I do feel that he is very much a force for good on these pages. We all express opinions that are occasionally more fervent than others, but not everyone manages to do it with the general good grace of Mr Gaynes. I know I don't.

Mike Gaynes
46 Posted 24/08/2022 at 18:01:18
Gee, Gerard #40, and here all I thought I was doing was expressing an opinion or two. No idea how that triggered a veritable avalanche of sarcasm, not to mention a not-so-veiled aspersion on my motives, from someone I've barely swapped a word with over the past 17 years.

Oracle? Sage? Minion "reporting back to the well-paid deadwood running the club"? Are you kidding? Who exactly would put lil' ol' me in any of those categories?

I didn't say anybody else was wrong, just expressed a contrary point of view. Can't for the life of me see how it's a "dismissive put down" of Dupont to defer on his contract countdown invitation. Perhaps you could explain how it was. Or perhaps how I might have somehow derided the author of the article, one of my closest virtual friends on TW.

In fact, perhaps you could explain the entire manifesto. It has me completely bewildered, especially the lengthy references to a German driver joke and an unknown movie. Went way over my head.

Jerome Shields
47 Posted 24/08/2022 at 21:40:44
Deadwood seems to be being moved out mostly on loan. The next week is going to be busy in the transfer window.

If Everton act as the should, bringing in seasoned professionals does not seem to be the policy, more players are part of swap deals or loans with a younger player profile.

If so, how it will finally gel out is an unanswered question at this stage.

Bernie Quinn
48 Posted 24/08/2022 at 21:45:18
Mike at #46,

Don't give Gerard's post at #40 a second thought. He is completely offside with his remarks to you.

What you post is opinion, of course, and I find you enjoyable to read. Don't let it bother you, mate.

Christine Foster
49 Posted 24/08/2022 at 21:49:57
In the total absence of any sort of explanation from the club, the departure of so many in one fell swoop, can only indicate that some harsh truths are hitting home with Moshiri.

The bloated player contingent of highly paid players that no-one wants is being culled at long last, not just that but throw in Duncan Ferguson and David Unsworth and you can see there is a sharp knife being used to reduce cost.

To what extent this is due to FFP restrictions is unclear, but offloading so many smacks of a harsh reality as the impact of the pandemic, the loss of financial backing and the flirting with the sale of the club, have all combined to become the perfect storm.

It's easy to focus on FFP as the cause of our ills but, whilst it's hampered our transfers in, no-one at the club has confirmed it's the root cause. Good accounting or panic? More the former than the latter in this case, I think Grant Ingles is quietly doing his job in sorting out the club's cost base.

Clearing the decks is needed for the club to build on the future. Sadly though, it's not all deadwood; real assets are going to go as well because of the inability or reluctance to speculate and pay for leaner or better replacements.

Everton FC has to ride out this storm on its own with little or no help from Moshiri. I wonder too, if the recent flirting he had with a possible sale of the club, highlighted to him that the club's cost base impacted heavily on its worth to new owners; in pruning costs, he makes short-term gains.

Once the stadium is built, I believe a majority shareholding will be sold as he recoups his investment as the club will look a far better investment to new buyers. That's assuming of course, that the baby isn't thrown out with the dishwater... we still have to survive as the train we are on hurtles down the tracks while new track is being laid, nowhere to stop because to do so is relegation.

Naivety and gross incompetence got us to where we are today, paddling like crazy, but in the end, only good management will get us out of it. There is one last chunk of deadwood Moshiri has to remove to clear the decks and secure the future. That may prove much harder to shift.

Derek Thomas
50 Posted 24/08/2022 at 22:04:41
Deadwood – and who, both directly and indirectly, brought most of them in is why we're in this position now.

Mr Wu, he of the other Deadwood fame, had a word... in fact it seemed to be his only line (a bit like Groot) for them.

Bernie Quinn
51 Posted 24/08/2022 at 22:12:38
Christine @ 49,

Thank God you are still on the boil, Love. I was getting a little concerned a little while back that you were going to stop posting. I now have a smile again, wishing I was as articulate as you. We need you, Christine.

Rob Rothwell
52 Posted 24/08/2022 at 22:19:08
Gerard #40, whilst your personal attack is harsh, you do make a valid point about certain people who post on this site.

I have been an Evertonian for 40 plus years now, and do enjoy this website, but don't post regularly for fear of being jumped all over for my "opinion", by certain posters because they don't agree with my "opinion". Especially those who don't even go to the games.

Keep perspective people. We're in this together. COYB UTFT.

Tom Bowers
53 Posted 24/08/2022 at 22:44:11
We are a poor squad with lots of excess baggage which answers the question of why we are having difficulty securing class additions.

Most younger talented players want to go to the ''bigger'' clubs – especially if they are in European competition, and that, sad to say, is not in Everton's DNA as yet.

Yes, we have some young talent but the big wage earners and big contracted players will hang around even though they are not contributing much. It's easy money for them.

There may indeed be a flurry of activity in the next week but it remains to be seen what if any impact will be seen on the pitch.

Brent Stephens
54 Posted 24/08/2022 at 22:52:48
Gerard, in common with others in this thread, I sometimes disagree with Mike Gaynes, sometimes agree. I suspect that what comes across as "assertive" language might just be a function of cultural differences, a North American modus of expression.

Ironically, the same "assertive" language is no enemy of many posters who live closer to home (possibly in this thread?!) but who are often offered a free ride in their manner of expression. I'm not sure any of us can cast that first stone.

The irony, as somebody else has commented, is that Mr Gaynes and Mr Kinsella are so often of the same mind, and sometimes, I guess, of differing opinions.

Mike Gaynes
55 Posted 24/08/2022 at 23:59:09
Bernie #48,

No worries, thank you sir. I wasn't wounded by Gerard's screed, just completely flummoxed.

Brent #54,

If I find my opinion differs from yours, I perform some psychic self-flagellation and change my mind. I thought you knew that!

Brent Stephens
56 Posted 25/08/2022 at 00:05:00
Mike, in all seriousness, I've seen you openly modify your opinion on TW in response to somebody else's post. Doesn't strike me as somebody who is trenchant in their views.
Bernie Quinn
57 Posted 24/08/2022 at 00:13:57
Brent at 54 and other posters. When I write my posts, I try always to avoid annoying other posters. I have found to my cost that I am not always successful.

I sometimes go overboard in agreeing with people of like minds to myself – Christine, Danny, Mike G. (above), Kieran of course, and many others. I am not trying to 'grovel' but want to show support and be associated with those posters (perhaps I am also envious of their vocabulary!)

Some people – like Gerard – who disagree with a post seem to imagine the thoughts of the posters and make false replies. I wish they wouldn't. If they can't say anything positive, then say Nowt!!!

Kieran Kinsella
58 Posted 25/08/2022 at 00:15:34
I'll agree with Brent here. Mike does have an authoritative assertive tone that I've seen get sort of lost in translation every now and then with folks back home.

I live in the USA now so get it but I can see how it might be misconstrued. But I have a lot of respect for Gerrard and he brings great insight and humour to this website, and I have a lot of respect for Mike too and would happily have a pint and a great chat with both (we would probably mostly agree on topics lol) any time I'm fortunate enough to be in the same vicinity as either.

Mike Gaynes
59 Posted 25/08/2022 at 01:01:36
Noted and accepted, Kieran, and when we can make it happen, the first round is on me.

But since you're more familiar with Gerard than I am, could you explain his apparent speculation (since he hasn't chosen to) about my perhaps being a "minion" reporting TW content to club executives?

He even seemed to posit that my first Goodison trip was some sort of payola from DBB. Was he being satiric or was he really rowing that strange boat?

Bill Gienapp
60 Posted 25/08/2022 at 03:42:45
Is DBB hiring American minions? How do I sign up??
Brian Murray
61 Posted 25/08/2022 at 03:52:03
Deadwood floats to the top and we have a lump of it from the 20th Century still clogging everything up and slowing us down. Get it moved, Moshiri.
Christine Foster
62 Posted 25/08/2022 at 04:49:00
Anyone else remember on this site when posters would complain because they weren't bothered about the commercial running of the club, only the football?

Or when warnings were given that stuffing up the former would greatly impact on the latter?

Well guess what, that day eventually came and with it the dense realization that money itself brings a responsibility of management but is nonetheless very difficult to stuff up. We did. Big time.

Repercussions? For those that stuffed it up? None. In fact, Bill Kenwright is significantly richer, Moshiri will see his value increase when the stadium is built..!

For the club, the fans? Huge Repercussions... loss of income, credibility, flirting with relegation and it's going to take a few more seasons to regain our status as even Best of the Rest!

The fans finally woke up when the wet fish warning of relegation slapped them in the face and woke up the beast that was perhaps the only thing that saved us from the drop.

But, as I have said before, we are entrusting the solution to those who stuffed it up so badly in the first place, that they would never be employed in the real world again.

Let's assume for one moment that the current clearout is almost complete. The initial priorities have to be jointly exclusive. Financial management and team reconstruction – get it wrong this time and we will be relegated, of that I have no doubt, but Moshiri stands to lose significantly should that happen.

We are buying time to get out of this self-inflicted mess. It should never have happened but it did. Moshiri has to ensure that the reasons we got into this mess are eliminated. That means he has to make people accountable, that means the chairman and CEO have to join the list of those the club is removing because they have failed to take appropriate action financially in a way that has led to significant impacts on playing staff recruitment and the sale of player assets. That's a recipe for relegation at worst, stagnation at best.

Trust is the basis of any partnership. Mistakes happen, but the catalogue of mistakes becomes incompetence when allowed to continue. If no action is taken, then that becomes shared incompetence and that is ruinous for everyone.

Mike Gaynes
63 Posted 25/08/2022 at 05:02:14
Welcome aboard, Bill. We're being paid with the Arteta money.
Sean Roe
64 Posted 25/08/2022 at 05:30:31
Every forum on the internet has a ''forum clique'' - fact!

Everybody has the right to post whatever opinion they like as long it's not offensive to others and should be able to discuss differing views without resorting to put downs or personal attacks, and nobody should feel that their opinion is invalid or be scared that others will jump all over them for their views.

Just my opinion of course.

David Currie
65 Posted 25/08/2022 at 05:42:23

The first is the Chairman and the second is the CEO. They have both failed and need replacing ASAP. If they had the best interest of the club, they would walk away, but they won't!

Derek Thomas
70 Posted 25/08/2022 at 08:16:41
It would be boring if we were all the same.

The Proverb(?) is usually stated as..."Great mind's think alike." But I believe there is a corollary that follows, though I'm sure it's not true in the majority of cases on here – "Fools seldom differ."

So, to all and sundry, keep posting and let history be your judge

Tony Abrahams
72 Posted 25/08/2022 at 08:29:03
Although I have still been reading ToffeeWeb, I've not been posting as much, and I think it's because of threads like this really.

Taking nothing away from Kieran, because I agree with his sentiments, but whilst reading I did begin to think that we as a fanbase could do more.

The reason I thought this was explained in one of the many great posts that Christine has put on this thread, and it centres around Moshiri.

Pressure needs to be put on this man to change the CEO and The Chairman, because it looks like the total mismanagement of our club has stopped him from being able to sell Everton without losing an absolute fortune right now.

He's been an absent owner from Day One, but the man who sold him the club has still had his mittens on our club though, and has probably told Farhad to ride it out, get the stadium built and then sell?

All conjecture, but Kenwright is trying to hang on until the stadium has been completed, and it's only us Evertonians who can force real change.

Having met Gerard and Mike, I'd say that they are both sensible people who would have a great debate over a pint, and I'm certain Mike would change his views on certain things if this ever happened... but in the meantime, posts on ToffeeWeb are becoming a bit repetitive, because the silence coming out of Everton is just leading to loads of speculation and it does seem like Kenwright's scheming divide & conquer is at work once again.

Danny O’Neill
73 Posted 25/08/2022 at 09:10:37
I don't know if it's paranoia, Tony, but I feel like Kenwright is being allowed to grip the club and like you say, rule by divide and conquer. We can't let that happen. We shouldn't let it happen.

West Ham home sold out before I even got a blink. That shows how our fans feel about this club despite being starved of the success we were brought up on.

He doesn't deserve us. But Everton do and we deserve Everton. The deadwood isn't necessarily in the changing room or on the Bench. It's in the Director's Box.

Brian Murray
74 Posted 25/08/2022 at 09:35:33

Hope I've got it hopelessly wrong and I'm not trying to be a smartarse but either the majority (unless we go down) are happy to bob along in any old way or they actually see the malaise is the fault of the owner as if he's been here over two decades.

They will point at everything and everyone except the white nelly staring down at them from the Main Stand smirking with his employers. I'm starting to really hate this club more than I love them.

Danny O’Neill
75 Posted 25/08/2022 at 09:49:38
Brian, you're one of the biggest Evertonians I know and have had the privilege to meet in person.

Watery eyes at the Palace, match - not tears obviously as we are grown adults!! That young lad from Gloucester – priceless. And that was before the match!!!

You're not wrong. We've been blaming managers and players for decades (myself included – hands up). It's glaringly obvious even to the more passive fan base where the change is needed.

Some spotted it early on. Others like myself needed convincing. Some are still covering their eyes. But I think the majority now have woken to the root cause of the problem.

The problem we have is that it will never distract from our instinct to support the team. They use that to their advantage. Even Frank seems to have bought into it.


Ciarán McGlone
76 Posted 25/08/2022 at 09:53:38
Aye, where is Hind... would like to see his take on the current festival of shit.
Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 25/08/2022 at 11:10:13
Being away, I watched the last game on television, and when Kenwright's very worried looking grim face appeared on the screen, it made me think that Lampard might just have our current board by the bollocks.

How or why? The club is in a very precarious position with regards FFP, but Lampard is maybe refusing to force Anthony Gordon out of the club?

I'm probably talking bollocks myself, and Gordon will still leave, but Kenwright's seriously worried face actually filled me with hope. But that's because I'd do almost anything to see the back of a crafty horrible Jonah, who has played thousands of Evertonians for years, whilst leading a once great institution to managed decline.

I love Everton, but absolutely detest what we have become under a man who has never had our club's best interests at heart.

Brian Murray
78 Posted 25/08/2022 at 11:41:49

His worried look is "Have I left the iron on?" He's not worried one bit about anything good or bad as long as he's in the frame.

As for Gordon's transfer, he will swing and twist it the way he wants. Either "He's one of us" family bullshit or "We couldn't stop him but really tried".

Kieran Kinsella
82 Posted 25/08/2022 at 14:33:52
Tony Abrahams,

Following on from your post, I read yesterday (that journo Paul someone who always claims to have the scoop on Everton), that Moshiri has taken a back seat at Everton now. Apparently in prior summers, he would take daily phone calls from agents but this year he has stayed out of transfers altogether.

On one hand, that is good, as we don't want any more hand-offs from Kia Joorabchian. But, on the other hand, I find it hard to believe Kevin and Frank are being left to run the show.

So presumably Bill is working his magic, like in January, sort of between managers, when he agreed to pay way over the odds for Patterson. So God help us.

Mike Gaynes
83 Posted 25/08/2022 at 16:09:26
Tony #72,

There are a fair number of people in the world who would bust up laughing at the idea that I'm sensible, but thank you for the sentiment.

I would offer a thought regarding the silence you mention coming out of the club. It may be evidence that Moshiri, despite his physical absence, might be in more day-to-day control of operations than some might think.

Wasn't Kenwright out front with public statements all the time when he owned the club? Didn't he love the publicity? But Moshiri is of the opposite cut -- personal publicity is anathema to him (he's not even talking to Jim White anymore), and his recent direct communications with the fan base occurred only when it was obvious they were desperately needed.

Plus our new DOF is proving his reputation for holding his cards close... and away from press speculation.

So it seems to me that Moshiri's philosophy of shut-the-hell-up-until-there's-something-important has been firmly imposed on the club -- Kenwright most of all.

Mike Gaynes
84 Posted 25/08/2022 at 16:13:13
Kieran #82, several of our recent signings have mentioned all three as being part of their process, so I'm certain you're right.

Nick Page
85 Posted 25/08/2022 at 16:20:41
Have we still not signed a striker?! Get a move on Everton, for fuck's sake – I'm sick to death at looking at shite clickbait news aggregators like NewsNow.

You're absolutely useless and none of you are fit to run a football club, never mind a commercial enterprise.

If this goes to deadline day, we'll get screwed as we're desperate and every man and their dog knows it because you have left us woefully exposed yet again.

Deadwood indeed, the lot of you.

Barry Rathbone
86 Posted 25/08/2022 at 16:24:52
Michael Lynch 69

I originally thought the same as you during my brief visit to GOT.

The inability of the few posters and their umpteen multis to deal with basic facts and rational argument resulted in a chasing for the boy Rathbone.

BUT!! once you realise the largest thread involves the same contributors pleading their depression, drugs and mental illness issues everything makes sense. Just a collection of odd people who claim to support Everton.

Martin Mason
87 Posted 25/08/2022 at 16:48:41
I agree that every poster has the right to state an opinion but opinions have to have a firm basis and have to be challenged if they are nonsense.
Tom Bowers
88 Posted 25/08/2022 at 16:50:33
They say no news is good news but, in Everton's case right now, it's the opposite.

They just seem to accept that the current squad will suffice for now. If that is the case and they are not actively seeking some front men, then they are so wrong.

Not having learnt from last season's flirtation with disaster, it seems the accent will be on avoiding defeat rather than winning games. Doing it like the Forest game is a sure-fire recipe for the Bottom 3.

I cannot see who they can possibly beat with this squad after the struggle with Fleetwood.

Jim Lloyd
89 Posted 25/08/2022 at 17:18:38
Kieran (82) ,

Paul Joyce was the Everton reporter (or one of them) that wrote for a long time for the Liverpool Echo. He's now with The Times but he still probably has contacts within the club. Moshiri and even Kenwright (maybe!!!) knew they were in the last chance saloon with very little funds available due to falling foul of the bloody Profitability and Sustainability rules and maybe the FFP ones as well.

Not only that; even Kenwright has probably had a twinkling of light filter in that denmented brain. Basically, I think they've realised that they're at the end of the road before going over the cliff.

I think Frank and Kevin have known they are in a stronger position than previous managers and consequently are in a relatively stronger position, vis a vis transfers in and out.

I don't think it was the Finance Director who has trimmed the staff lately. I think it's been our manager and DoF.

I think they have looked at the squad, at the assistant manager role, the U/23 DoF role and has suggested it would be better if they found other jobs.

That may be the reason people who have been on our staff for years have suddenly decided to look elsewhere. I think it's more likely now, that Kenwright still gets involved in the bargaining team but it seems to me that the choices of incoming players is up to Frank and the DoF.

I think those two have weighed up what Gordon brings to the first team, versus who they can bring in for the reputed £60 million. We'll find out in the next seven days what choices they've made and who's attainable from the list they've made of possible recruits.

Brian Murray
93 Posted 25/08/2022 at 18:25:38
I really think Moshiri thinks all his big losses and down grading of ambition is normal with a Premier League club and he's been verbally forced to think like that. Why else would he put up with incompetent people running his club?

It's like in his head what happens now is almost irrelevant as long as the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is getting bigger and bigger. He may be in for a shock...

Michael Kenrick
95 Posted 25/08/2022 at 20:47:11
Mike #83,

At least you asked it as a question and not as a statement: "Wasn't Kenwright out front with public statements all the time when he owned the club?"

I would have to say the answer is a very emphatic No. EFC have never been very forthcoming on internal matters, and the closest Kenwright came was when a tricky trio of likely lads from the Blue Union got a meeting with him where they allegedly snuk in a recording device, such was the verbatim report of the great man's pronouncements.

The numerous posts we are seeing now, fretting endlessly as the Deadline approaches, are quite normal, sadly.

Those insisting that the club tell us just what the hell is going on are quite laughable and equally misguided in that such a thing just ain't gonna happen. Their authors should know better by now, surely.

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