Season › 2024-25 › News Thierno Barry: What will he bring to Everton? Harry Diamond 09/07/2025 91comments | Jump to last Everton have completed the signing of Thierno Barry from Villarreal for a fee in the region of £27m. The 22-year-old arrives with a growing reputation, tasked with filling the Dominic Calvert-Lewin-sized hole in David Moyes’ squad. Barry’s move to the Premier League continues a rapid rise for the forward, who has climbed from French football’s fifth tier to the Premier League, via Belgium, Switzerland and Spain, in just three summers. Everton’s interest emerged after an impressive single season with Villarreal, where Barry scored 11 times in La Liga during his first campaign in a top-five European league. The Yellow Submarine had snapped up the striker from Basel, after Barry had opened the 2024/25 campaign with eight goals in four games for the Swiss side. But what can Barry bring to Everton? A towering target for Everton attacks The obvious observation about Barry is his size. At 6ft 5in, the Frenchman fits the profile Moyes has often sought to lead the line. It’s a frame that Barry has used to good effect. Though just three of his 11 La Liga goals came via his head last season, he has proven to be an elite option in the air. Both Calvert-Lewin (4.75) and Beto (5.81) averaged more aerial duels won per 90 than Barry (3.84) last season, but it’s the success of those duels that marks Barry out as outstanding in the air. His 67.3% success rate was the second highest of any forward across Europe’s top-five leagues last season and comfortably superior to Calvert-Lewin (51.2%) and Beto (48.5%). If that can translate to the more physically demanding rigours of English football, Everton will have a real asset in both boxes. In terms of chance conversion, Barry’s 2024/25 numbers rank almost identically to Beto, with both in the 61st percentile of forwards across Europe. Calvert-Lewin, frustratingly inconsistent in front of goal, was in the bottom 8% in comparison. But, at five years younger than Beto, there will be optimism that Barry can refine his finishing and the raw data is promising. Already, he’s scored 61 goals in 130 career club appearances across four different countries. Beto’s encouraging upturn last season means Moyes now has two options he can trust in attack. Though similar in stature, the two differ in style. Beto’s best has often come amid a desire to run in behind. His movement can be a throwback, causing chaos for defenders who have become accustomed to forwards wanting the ball to feet. Barry’s combination of tall frame and willingness to receive short can provide Everton with a different outlet. He has repeatedly shown an ability to take the ball in deeper areas of the pitch, spin, and surge into open spaces. Last season, the Frenchman ranked in the top 14% of all forwards in Europe for carries into the final third and in the top 22% for progressive carries and carries into the penalty box. Beto, in contrast, was in the lowest 40% on each of those metrics. Barry’s willingness to drive with the ball also leads to a high number of fouls won. He averaged 1.98 fouls won per 90 in 2024/25, among the highest 11% of forwards. Beto, again, was in the bottom 50% of his positional peers. Given Moyes’ demand for high cross volume and set-piece threat, coupled with Barry’s own status as an aerial target, the numbers offer encouragement as Everton look to improve their attacking output. Only the three relegated sides scored fewer goals than the Blues last season. Caution, however, should be urged. Barry remains raw and with clear weaknesses in his game. His decision-making must improve to take the next step, while his defensive contribution from the front is another area to work upon. Everton will hope Barry can be more Romelu Lukaku than Moise Kean, two players signed at similar stages of their respective careers. While Lukaku went from strength to strength, Kean’s obvious talent was not fulfilled in a blue shirt. Memories of that remain vivid. The raw ingredients with Barry are there, and, crucially, he should be granted the time required to settle. Both Everton’s and Beto’s end-of-season form should allow the new arrival an adequate adaptation period. What is clear is that Barry has the potential to be a statement signing, a promising talent plucked from a Champions League club. In a summer where there’s plenty to do, he is an exciting acquisition. Reader Comments (91) Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer () Mike Gaynes 1 Posted 09/07/2025 at 18:13:41 From Paddy Boyland and Thom Harris in The Athletic:There is a sequence in Villarreals 3-1 win against Las Palmas last season that highlights Thierno Barrys promise.The striker is facing his own goal, midway inside his own half, with a defender right on his back. The two grapple for possession, tumbling to the turf, but Barry is quickest to react, beating his opponent and another covering Las Palmas player to the stray ball.From there, he races, socks rolled down, to the edge of the penalty area, sending another defender, Alex Suarez, to the turf with a shoulder barge, before calmly setting up Nicolas Pepe for the opener.It is not always slick, but stopping Barry in these moments feels like an ordeal. His 6ft 5in (196cm) frame, ability in transition and eye for a pass, witnessed in that goal against Las Palmas, mark him out as a unique proposition.Everton have been aware of the Lyon-born striker since the 2023-24 season, when he was a raw yet promising talent at Swiss side Basel. Now 22, he is still refining his game, but his displays in his sole season with Villarreal in La Liga saw his name move up scouting shortlists. By the second half of the campaign, he had emerged as a regular one to watch alongside Nick Woltemade, Stuttgarts 23-year-old striker.The comparison between Barry and Germany international Woltemade is interesting in the sense that they are very different players. Both are tall strikers with an eye for goal, but Barry looks to stretch the oppositions defence while Woltemade is better in tight spaces, with the ball played to his feet. The question for Everton manager David Moyes and his staff to answer was whether they wanted another striker closer in fit to first-choice Beto or a point of difference.Barry, who made eight caps for France Under-21s, is not afraid to get physical. Everton ended up plumping for Barry, largely due to his ability to dominate the box and stretch defences.The clubs internal data showed a player with an elite physical profile who should work well in Moyes system, while having a high ceiling in terms of future development.There is an acceptance on Merseyside that he will require time and patience as he acclimatises, but also a belief that he is ready to share minutes with Beto next season.Talks took place over the past month and it has taken time to get to the point where Barry is now an Everton player. His Villarreal deal, signed when he joined from Basel for an initial €13.5m (£11.6m; $16m) last summer, contained a hefty release clause of €40m.Everton started negotiations looking for a significant discount on that number but both parties are likely to see the final figure of €32m plus bonuses as a happy compromise.There was confusion at times. Towards the end of last week, noises from Spain suggested a deal had been reached between the clubs. The insistence on Merseyside was that progress had been made, but certain details were still to be ironed out.The fee does not appear to have changed much, if at all, in the intervening period, but the suggestion since has been that the clubs were haggling over the structure of the deal and when certain amounts were paid. Barry cut short his holiday in Miami, after representing France at this summers European Under-21 Championship in Switzerland, to travel early this week for a medical on Tuesday and complete a move. In Florida, he had trained with soon-to-be team-mate Carlos Alcaraz and former Everton loanee Jack Harrison.Everton will be pleased to have finally signed a top target and bolstered their forward line after the departure of Dominic Calvert-Lewin as a free agent. They were aware of interest in Barry from England and some Champions League clubs, but they did their groundwork with the player and his camp. Moyes sales pitch, where he outlined his interest in working with the Frenchman, helped convince him Everton was the right club.Now player and club will hope the switch pays dividends. Steve Shave 2 Posted 09/07/2025 at 18:47:39 Welcome, Barry! Delighted with this signing! ✍️ Clarence Yurcan 3 Posted 09/07/2025 at 18:53:25 I'm Back Billy Bradshaw 4 Posted 09/07/2025 at 19:17:45 Clarence @ 3, back from were? Jay Harris 5 Posted 09/07/2025 at 19:27:53 Pleased, now let's get on with the fullbacks and wingers with a goalscoring midfield general thrown in. Daniel A Johnson 6 Posted 09/07/2025 at 19:28:57 Looking at the Crystal Palace news about dual ownership, where does it leave us with Roma?? Danny O'Neill 7 Posted 09/07/2025 at 19:42:42 We've done that one on various threads, Daniel.But just to repeat, there are compromises and UEFA can approve it as they have done for both Manchester Clubs.In simple terms, as long as the owners don't have direct control over day-to-day decision making, a waiver can be approved.If we have different boards, then it should be fine. It might mean Dan Friedkin stepping aside as Chairman of wither club, but TFG would still be owners of both.That's how I understand it. Craig Scott 8 Posted 09/07/2025 at 19:46:37 Thanks, Harry, for providing a well-researched piece on this player with good supporting stats. The sort of information we need to know to get an idea of his prospects.Interesting comparisons with Beto. I'm hoping he will turn out as a definite upgrade. Daniel A Johnson 9 Posted 09/07/2025 at 20:46:09 Cheers Danny and apologies didn't see any threads on the subject. Ged Simpson 10 Posted 09/07/2025 at 21:08:29 No thread says man posting on it!Just fun! Ged Simpson 11 Posted 09/07/2025 at 21:12:09 Fair point, Danny, and better understanding than my daft head can grapple with Dennis Stevens 12 Posted 09/07/2025 at 22:17:54 I hope he's got a high threshold for frustration. He's at Everton now, so he won't get as many free kicks given in his favour. Brendan Fox 13 Posted 09/07/2025 at 22:18:17 Welcome to the greatest club, Barry.Not enough Barrys in today's football. Brendan Fox 14 Posted 09/07/2025 at 22:22:11 Got to be a chant for Baz someone can resurrect given the few we've had playing for us more recently. Dale Self 15 Posted 09/07/2025 at 22:26:15 Well, it got weird after Gareth left. Now, with Thierno we will complete the U-turn. Welcome my man! May your Blue phase be a productive and artful one. Danny O'Neill 16 Posted 09/07/2025 at 22:27:46 No need to apologise Daniel. It's a much discussed topic and not just on here. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Peter Moore 17 Posted 09/07/2025 at 22:35:54 Here's hoping Barry has the class to enable us to successfully compete in Europe. And not just Barry Island. COYB Paul Kossoff 18 Posted 09/07/2025 at 23:40:29 He has to be better than Calvert-Lewin,Beto and Chermiti, so I take it he will start and no extended bedding in period. We can't afford to be sitting in the bottom six come December with Beto still first choice because of Dithering Dave. I wonder if in some games, he will have Beto and Barry up front together, as in, "Unlock the power within and make a statement with the New Double-B Monogram: The symbol of a True Boss!"For all you fashion gurus, Double-B is Hugo Boss's new logo. Barry & Beto, the new Double-B. Mike Gaynes 19 Posted 10/07/2025 at 00:28:13 Harry, I'm going to differ with you that Beto and Barry differ in style.You point out that Beto‘s strength is running in behind.I saw a statistic somewhere that, across Europe's seven top leagues, Barry was number two of all forwards in running in behind.I've only seen Barry play twice, but that statistic supports my visual impression that they are similar in style — both love to attack defenders off the ball. Laurie Hartley 20 Posted 10/07/2025 at 01:39:11 Paul # 18 - the thought did cross my mind that David Moyes might play two up top and Ndiaye in behind them.Our manager I feel, is very sure about what he want's and I won't be surprised if he signs a tall midfielder in the Fellaini mould.He has three very good centre-backs and a very good option from the bench in Keane.With the signing of a right winger (Tom Fellows) and right back (Kyle Walker-Peters) he will have a lot of options.I think he and therefore us will surprise many next season by getting us in the top half. Sean Kearns 21 Posted 10/07/2025 at 02:05:23 Baz it is then!… we have 3 center forwards who are all 6' 4”… Beto, Chermiti and Baz are all 6 foot 4. Love it ! Derek Knox 22 Posted 10/07/2025 at 04:43:43 Brendan @ 13, "Not enough Barrys in today's football."Let's hope he's like Barry Scott (?) and Cilit Bangs them in, one squirt and the R S are gone ! :-) Dale Self 23 Posted 10/07/2025 at 05:20:11 Excuse me Derek, but shouldn't the "(?)" follow the latter capitalized phrase there? Jeff Armstrong 24 Posted 10/07/2025 at 05:52:15 There's a very good article on Barry on the Evertonia site, great analysis and background, oh and Darren Hind has been posting on other articles too. Danny O'Neill 25 Posted 10/07/2025 at 06:59:15 Laurie @20,I think, as it stands, Moyes will stick with the 4-2-3-1.Even during his first tenure, he mostly preferred one striker in his then favoured 4-5-1.So, I am assuming it will be Barry or Beto (interchanging between the two), with Alcaraz as the supporting striker (Number 10), with Ndiaye and McNeil either side.Without going overly thoughtful, that is more like a 4-2-2-1-1.That doesn't give us much width from the 3, as both Ndiaye and McNeil are inclined to cut in, so that will have to come from the full backs, which makes an attacking right back the next priority in my opinion. Unless we are looking at a right winger. Mike Gaynes 26 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:13:10 Jeff #24, I'm not surprised at how good that article is. The author, Ell Bretland, is a magical writer and one of the great Everton historians who formerly blessed TW, along with Rob Sawyer and Becky Tallentire. BTW, what happened to Simon Harrison? Lee Courtliff 27 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:15:11 I don't know anything about Barry besides the customary YouTube videos (I know, I know, I know) but he did seem to operate wide quite a lot. He looked comfortable taking the ball with his back to goal and then spinning his marker, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see Moyes use him out wide to help 'bed him in'.I'm just glad we've signed a young player with potential, for a decent fee after so long of scraping around the bottom of the barrel. Now for a full back who can attack as well as defend. Mike Gaynes 28 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:42:39 No "disputes" for me, Lee. It was one-way traffic. I paid him little mind and almost never responded -- just flicked the mouse wheel and scrolled on past. But he got pretty bloody with other people, and it would appear that's why he got locked out. Nothing to do with me. Jerome Shields 29 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:42:43 Barry is a good signing. A good replacement for Calvert-Lewin. But with Barry, 22, Beto will be first choice and it is hoped that Chermitt improves. Moyes will gradually move him into selection because of his youth and the fact he has no Premier League experience. That is the Moyes way, as he stated a couple of months ago. Funny, I was told by a friend that we had definitely signed him last week but could only find fringe rumours. I just updated at the time he would be a really good signing.Paul Ferry hopefully will be back. I have been banned numerous times. Came back on my daughter's e-mail. Same goes for Simon, though he may have got fed up. Hope both are well, including the Woods (Euro and Brazil). Also my good friend Fearns.Additionally Darren Hind. Tony Abrahams 30 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:48:30 I didnt realise Paul Ferry, had been banned Dale?He gives some stick out at times but just like Darren Hind, who has also just been mentioned, I also think he helps to keep things interesting.Not everyones cup of tea, but is anyone? Mike Gaynes 31 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:48:39 Close to 18 hours now since we signed Barry and still no mention of it on ESPN. Coverage of Spurs and Saints and Arsenal and Chelsea transfers, and of course the RS. Not a word about us. Sam Hoare 32 Posted 10/07/2025 at 07:49:11 Exciting. I think this is exactly the sort of player that Everton need to be signing more often. A talented player in their early 20's who has already established themselves to a degree but has the chance to improve and become a real superstar. The price is pretty decent though in ideal world we would have got him last summer for £13m and then loaned him to a side like Villareal, saving ourselves 20 odd million in the process. Still, I think there's a decent chance he's a £60m striker in three years time. Fingers crossed.Barry is a supreme athlete who has the skills to develop into a Lukaku, Osimhen, Drogba level of striker. He's an extrememly hard worker and will make runs in behind all day long. Moyes' style should suit him down to the ground and him and Ndiaye should be lethal on the counter, especially if we can add a right-winger with searing pace.But he will probably take some time to adapt. Like Beto he will look clumsy and chaotic at times and I expect that the Portuguese may well start the season. It will be interesting to see if Moyes tries Barry on the wing or even as part of 2-striker attack at times. It's not ideal to have a £30M striker on the bench when the squad is still developing like ours and I can see why some posters were suggesting selling Beto to replace him with a more versatile forward (who can play wide or as second striker) but I can't see that happening unless we get a really high offer from him which is unlikely. Tony Abrahams 33 Posted 10/07/2025 at 08:06:10 A supreme athlete (my own view is that the French model of churning out supreme athletes is something that our academy should be studying) who is not scared of hard work and will run in behind all day.He will definitely go down well with us Evertonians, Sam, so I just hope your observation, along with Mike's, rings true. Danny O'Neill 34 Posted 10/07/2025 at 08:27:48 I can't comment on him as I've not seen him play.Reading the article on Evertonia, and listening to the coach that nurtured him, he apparently works incredibly hard, is always wanting to learn and improve. And, again, according to the coach, likes to run between the full backs and centre backs, as well as being a "menace" in the air.We can never say, but a young player with potential to develop. It sounds and feels promising. Christy Ring 35 Posted 10/07/2025 at 08:30:07 Hopefully Barry will bring goals, but we need a right winger with pace now. Andrew Clare 36 Posted 10/07/2025 at 08:31:29 A very exciting signing. If our other new signings are as good as our first two- Alcaraz and Barry we are in for an exciting season.I am expecting a fullback, two midfielders and a right winger of high quality plus back-up players. Hopefully deals are nearing completion on some of these players. This is such an important window. Sam Hoare 37 Posted 10/07/2025 at 08:36:23 Tony@33 I predict a curve somewhat like Betos where initially some bad touches, chaotic displays and missed sitters lead to some Toffees branding him a waste of money but eventually his hard work and ability to bully defenders wins the majority over. Ultimately he should have the talent and opportunity to eclipse Beto (and a fair few other recent Everton strikers). Lee Courtliff 38 Posted 10/07/2025 at 08:48:27 Fair enough, Mike. G.We are all on the same side, even if we disagree sometimes. Robert Tressell 39 Posted 10/07/2025 at 09:02:37 Sam # 32, exactly right. This is very much the profile of player to help us build up a quality squad for the long term. In an ideal world we'd follow it up with the likes of McAtee and Hutchison / Bakayoko and a new RB like Wesley - all young, but all plenty of games under their belts and international recognition (either full honours or u21). They could all form the basis of a good side for the next 5 to 10 years.Alongside all this it is pleasing to see the possible demise of West Ham and Wolves - since losing Kudus and Cunha respectively will be tough for them. Hopefully replacements are not on the way. Danny O'Neill 40 Posted 10/07/2025 at 09:10:05 Mike, we had our 15 minutes (if that) of fame, briefly yesterday. Pretty standard!!Lee and others, yes. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing and having different viewpoints. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, nor do I agree with everyone. As long as it stays civil, it's fine with me.I think it's when it get's a bit personal and persistent targeting of individuals that the editors have to step in. Not an easy job.I actually found Paul Ferry okay personally. Likewise, Darren Hind, once we'd settled our spat and differences over Ancelotti!! He was / is a tough audience, but he knows his shit about Everton and football.Colin Crooks was interesting, but again, it's easy to manage a conversation.I would add Brian Murray to that list. He's become a good friend.I've had much more fierce debates with my brother and son over Everton than anything I've had on here and they are massive Evertonians!! It's just they grew up in the 90s and 2000s. One was 5 when we last won a trophy and barely remembers it. The other 5 months old and obviously can't recall it. According to them, I'm deluded.Maybe Michael and the editorial team could sanction moving them out of the sin bin, or a Steve McQueen like cooler and grant them probation?!!I appreciate it's a tough call as they have to consider the reputation of the website and to my knowledge, this one is widely recognised as one of the best. Not just by Evertonians, but by other supporters, hence we see the odd few pop up on here. James Hughes 41 Posted 10/07/2025 at 09:15:17 Tony, I too just thought Paul was taking a sabbatical as he usually does. He could be a bit bloody-minded but would easily switch opinion if someone made a valid point. As for Darren Hind I for one still miss his input. I do not blame him for no longer posting as he was constantly hounded by several people for whatever he posted. He never got personal and just tried to answer the point. Ian Burns 42 Posted 10/07/2025 at 09:45:25 I have been taking a daily dose of TW for more years than I care to think about. Posted an article or two in the distant past. It's a shame some of our more outspoken posters have disappeared from the site (including Lyndon) and although the odd reprimand was appropriate for some extreme posts, it's a great pity some well known names are no longer involved either by choice or banned. In truth they are missed. Mal van Schaick 43 Posted 10/07/2025 at 09:55:04 Let's hope that all the shite is behind us and we can look forward to a successful season in our new stadium, with new signings. I also hope that it is the end of mediocre signings who took the piss, eg, Maupay, amongst others. Martin Farrington 44 Posted 10/07/2025 at 10:00:42 DCL sized hole.Hmmm. Just measuring the diameter of a penny.Yup. As I suspected. Not big at all then.Unlike Barry, at 6ft 5".I know nothing about him.Why the hell not I here you all ask, shocked.Truth be told I pay no attention to all the windy guff and floaters in the gossips. We have also failed on so so many occasions.None are worth a click until they are here.I welcome the lad with open arms and then a handshake that is firm enough to reinforce my greeting.Now I hope Moyes will play a different style that suits him.Not hoof it up to the big man and under no circumstances get around him. DO NOT Support him and win that second ball.Like we have perfected or the last three decades etc Ian Jones 45 Posted 10/07/2025 at 10:04:38 I imagine this signing is David Moyes's way of planting a marker in the sand for Everton's rebuild. Jake FitzGerald 46 Posted 10/07/2025 at 11:07:22 Robert @ 39 - good point about West Ham and Wolves. If we're aiming for a top 10 finish, it'll be interesting to see who underperforms next season. Obviously the promoted three will struggle, Brentford will miss Frank, Man Utd will still be entertainingly shite and Forest might drop back without Elanga and a couple of others. Who else… Brighton? I think other teams have worked them out, I think they might struggle. The rest, as you were. Definitely room for us to move up into the top half and build from there. Tony Abrahams 47 Posted 10/07/2025 at 14:19:46 I personally don't think Beto is good enough, Sam, but since Moyes came into the club and gave him a run of games, then it made me realise that we had been hanging on to having Calvert-Lewin fit for way too long.If Dominic would have missed the chances Beto missed at both Brentford and Liverpool, he would have been absolutely slaughtered by many, but putting the ball in the back of the net isn't easy, and it's why we haven't had a 20-goal-a-season striker for almost ever.I like the thought of McAtee, and then a wide player with pace, because the more quality a team possess, should usually take the pressure of the centre-forward. We will see. Dale Self 48 Posted 10/07/2025 at 15:27:33 Tony 30, since my post has been edited, I will have pass on a reply for that topic. Thanks for the light penalty Michael. Tony Abrahams 49 Posted 10/07/2025 at 15:51:45 What's noticeable Dale, is that after further investigations it doesn't look like any posts have been removed because of the way the numbering goes, mate.I wouldn't have been aware of this if you hadn't replied to me Dale, but I can see why one of Mike's was removed because it definitely had mixed messages if I remember correctly! Robert Tressell 50 Posted 10/07/2025 at 20:19:15 Tony # 47, If Beto isn't good enough, then the only players who are are good enough are probably Pickford, Branthwaite and Ndiaye. Danny O'Neill 51 Posted 10/07/2025 at 20:22:28 You might be missing O'Brien (still developing) and Alcaraz from that list, Robert. All subjective obviously. Liam Mogan 52 Posted 10/07/2025 at 20:31:39 Good enough for what?If it's a team challenging for honours then it could be argued very few of them are.Not many in our squad actually have any medals, do they? Gana at PSG and maybe Mykolenko in his Ukraine career?I know it's not that simple, but it's definitely an indicator (just like the fact that not many of our players have scored a lot of goals). Dale Self 53 Posted 11/07/2025 at 04:05:21 Tony 49, it always a bit of fun, or ToffeeWebology if you prefer, to see what survives on a colorful thread. I've come to accept Michael's judgement of what's best in the larger picture. And I think Mike deserves whatever take he posts, for what that's worth.And Tony, you will be there. It is happening. Dale Self 54 Posted 11/07/2025 at 04:51:34 Make that 'colourful'. Danny O'Neill 55 Posted 11/07/2025 at 06:44:13 "Not good enough." Interesting comment Robert. As Liam says, good enough for what?I try not to continuously revert back to the 80s, but can't help myself. Winter 1983. Times are hard. Everton are in dire straights. The natives are restless and that's a polite way of putting it. Kendall must go was the message from a lot of supporters.I was only 12 and couldn't see a way out, but my Dad told me to pray in Church and that he could see something in the team. I was too young to see it, but I did pray.Into 1984 and it clicks. 5 months later and we go from relegation to finishing 7th, I've been to Wembley twice and seen us lift a trophy.As I, and others keep saying, it's about the ingredients that make a team. We already have the base and will build on it throughout the window. We don't need a team of world beaters, just a team that can compete for Europe and one of those domestic trophies. For now. Steve Shave 56 Posted 11/07/2025 at 07:54:46 Robert potentially starts an interesting debate there: yes, good enough for what? I know you are a realist, Robert, so I am curious what you mean by that too. Speaking more generally on that subject, I guess much comes down to our subjective expectations. Some would turn their noses up at Gallagher (even if he would be our best player, or one of) some get excited at a raw and lanky striker who is 21. Personally, I am looking at squad quality in terms of what we need to move forwards, to finish higher than we did last season. With a view to doing so year on year until we are back where we belong. Progress should be considered, careful and well planned. I can see signs that TFG might just be what we needed in this regard. So with that view in mind, I agree with a poster above that it's not just Pickford, Branthwaite and Ndiaye who are good enough. That Alcaraz, O'Brien and Barry are possibly going to progress to be on par. I'd argue that Gana is still a Rolls-Royce player. That McNeil and Garner are talented squad members who can change a game and can push for a starting berth. Plus we are likely to buy two players who can immediately improve the side at right-back and right-midfield. Suddenly, things look different. Some might say that is optimistic, it's all about perspectives and opinions, though, isn't it? I believe if we get this recruitment drive right, we can push Top 8 — which only an idiot would be dissatisfied with given the shite we've been dished up. Steve Brown 57 Posted 11/07/2025 at 08:13:43 Danny @ 55, we had a talented but young squad of players in 1983 who needed confidence and self-belief – Stevens, Ratcliffe, Mountfield, Steven, Sharp, Sheedy and Richardson were all under 25 years old.Three things changed for that squad: 1) Adding Harvey to the coaching side; 2) Older players adding confidence and belief; 3) Winning a trophy in 1984. Winning gives confidence, which is why I have never understood our reluctance to take the domestic cup competitions seriously. They also guarantee European football. If we are to build a sustainable platform, then building a strong Academy pipeline is the way forward. Plus we will certainly buy 1-2 more experienced players despite them not having resale value – I thought the enquiry for John McGinn was a great idea and a pity we couldn't persuade Aston Villa to sell. Tony Abrahams 58 Posted 11/07/2025 at 08:28:16 That's fair enough Dale, and on closer inspection, Mike's post hadn't been removed either!The stick can become a bit much sometimes mate, something I don't see the point of or particularly like, considering that most people on this website have never even met each other.I sometimes used to smile at the old Michael though and think it's a good job he's in charge, considering some of the shite he's coming out with, but that was just my own personal opinion about a man who has probably stopped this website from sinking into oblivion since it changed hands, and why I wrote about cups of tea in an earlier post.I hope I'm still here, Dale, I was half watching the television the other night, previewing the upcoming Oasis concerts, and I think it was Liam Gallagher, who said exactly the same thing about Manchester City when he was talking about just being around to see them lift one trophy. Tony Abrahams 59 Posted 11/07/2025 at 08:37:44 That's a good post Steve S — good enough for what? That would definitely start a very interesting and also no doubt a very lively debate, imo mate!Good enough to win us a trophy? Something you can achieve by only having to peak in a game every few weeks.We have had some very good players before. Look at the young players we had under Martinez, but still we fell short, for different reasons.The next few weeks are massive, let's just hope we sign a few players who are really good enough. Steve Brown 60 Posted 11/07/2025 at 09:14:03 Steve S @ 56, good enough to win a domestic cup would be huge progress. Winning something would transform the mentality at this club. This squad is good enough to do that with further sensible additions this summer.Aston Villa, Leicester City, Spurs, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Birmingham City, Swansea City, Newcastle United, Crystal Palace, Wigan Athletic and Portsmouth have all won domestic cups since 1995. It is shameful that Everton have reached one domestic cup final in that 30 year period.Net investment was not the main factor for the success of the teams in cup competitions. It was giving the cups priority and approaching key matches with the best players available and a winning mentality.In this aspect, I hope Mr Moyes changes his approach from his last tenure as Everton manager. Raymond Fox 61 Posted 11/07/2025 at 09:41:12 Steve @ 60, we have been struggling with relegation fears in recent years so the cups were no doubt seen as a risk by managers.If you are comfortable in a midtable with a good sized squad by all means go all out for a cup otherwise be cautious. Tony Abrahams 62 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:30:48 I remember Howard Kendall's team really struggling, Raymond, getting booed off the pitch at Goodison just a couple of days before the start of 1984.Imagine if Kendall would had that mindset?Resting players in the cups should only happen to a club like Everton if they ever get close to winning doubles and trebles again. When Moyes was alleged to be doing a great job at Everton, then that's when our mindset changed. Andrew Ellams 63 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:37:40 Wasn't Mike England in the ground that day being lined up to come in to replace him, Tony, vs Coventry with about 13,000 watching? James Marshall 64 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:42:33 I think we'll see an upturn next season with us finishing in the top half.Clubs like Brentford, Brighton and definitely Forest could well struggle. Forest have some Elanga and soon Gibbs-White. Add to that Europe and you can pretty reliably expect their league form to be a problem.Ours on the other hand should improve on last season. Albeit a low bar to improve on.Where did we finish, 15th or something? I predict top 10 and comfortable mid table obscurity - something I've personally craved for several years! Dave Abrahams 65 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:45:52 Steve (57) Yes you could see that confidence building with each round round we progressed in both cups and especially in the 1-1 home draw against Liverpool in the league when we stood up to them and let them know they were in a game and only a missed penalty stopped us from winning — other factors stopped us from winning in the League Cup Final and even in the replay we matched them when the game could have gone either way.While it is well known that Moyes failed in repeatedly away games to to the top teams all the time he was here the Shrewsbury cup away was the real sickner- —Shrewsbury were relegated from the football league at the end of that season! Tony Abrahams 66 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:50:16 My memory isn't that fresh, Andrew. I know football has changed but you only win when you really want to win, which is the real point I was trying to make with regards Raymond, even though I understood his sentiments. mike corcoran 67 Posted 11/07/2025 at 13:50:31 Remember that ragtag squad of 1986-87 that won the title? It's about moulding a team ethic first, with players who know how to play our team's game inside out. Then you get away with some less than stellar starters (Mimms, Snodin, Langley, Adams, Clarke, Wilkinson etc) Andy Crooks 68 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:20:44 Spot on, Mike, though I thought Snodin was decent. Jake FitzGerald 69 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:23:20 Speaking of poor memories- Im certain in my head that I saw us beating Arsenal something like 7-2 in ‘84 - or was it a fever dream? Liam Mogan 70 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:25:53 6-1 in 86? Liam Mogan 71 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:27:43 Don't forget Neil 'Disa' Pointon, Mike 67.Ian Snodin was different from the others in that we paid a big fee for him part way of the season and he went straight into team. The others were squad players. Jake FitzGerald 72 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:50:38 Thanks Liam - youre right it was 6-1. And it was 85 because I remember Lineker was playing. Neil Pointons debut game. Danny O'Neill 73 Posted 11/07/2025 at 14:58:06 6-1 in 85-86 wearing the white bib top Jake. "Champagne" Charlie Nicholas playing for Arsenal. A real character. I was in my usual spec on the lower Gwladys Street and he seemed to enjoy the banter, even though we were calling him a banker.There are some names up there. Ian Snodin chose us over Liverpool and although signed as a midfielder, played a lot at right back, and very well.Neil Pointon. Deputy to Van den Hauwe and a moustache to rival Derek Mountfield's.Bobby Mimms. Decent goalkeeper, but how daunting must it have been stepping in to replace Neville Southall?Signing Paul Power raised an eyebrow or two, but turned out to be a shrewd addition. That was another great moustache.And we mustn't forget Alan Harper and Kevin Richardson. Absolutely key to our 80s success. But once Howard's first choice 11 were fit and available, they were out, no matter how well they had performed. Kendall MK1 may have come across as a nice guy, but had a ruthless streak. Forget the trophies, his master stroke was bringing Colin Harvey in as assistant / first team coach. Another who took no prisoners or excuses.Dave @65, winning breeds momentum, which breeds winning. It's why I get annoyed when we don't set up with a strong team in the early rounds of cup matches. Go out, get the game won, then rest if you can. Not the other way around and end up chasing the game. Jake FitzGerald 74 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:52:11 I see we're in the running for the Panathinaikos right back - Vagiannidis. Reminds me of a girl I used to know who left a lasting impression on me. Steve Brown 75 Posted 11/07/2025 at 15:53:02 Raymond @ 61, I think we have the squad right now to put together a decent cup run next season if we treat it as a priority. That has been the case for the majority of the last 30 years. Only Roberto Martinez really targeted the domestic cupmcompetitions. Danny, Tony, Dave, I agree completely that the winning builds confidence and it starts with the right mindset. Robert Tressell 76 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:08:08 Tony # 59 - that "good enough for what" debate went full circle because it started with you at # 47!I suppose if the question is which of our players now would be good enough to play in, say, the Quarter Finals of the Champions League (as per Villa this season) and / or get us into the Champions League - then the answer probably is just Pickford, Branthwaite and Ndiaye. Some of the others could become good enough (like Barry, Alcaraz and O'Brien). Many of the others plainly aren't good enough for that level - but they can be solid / unremarkable Europa League standard players.I agree with the wider sentiment that we should be going all out for the cups each season. Although the squad is very small / patchy it should have improved by the end of the window and we should be moving away from annual relegation fear. None of this resting people for the cups business. We need to win a cup; we need to play in Europe. Ryan Holroyd 77 Posted 11/07/2025 at 19:13:29 ‘Aston Villa, Leicester City, Spurs, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Birmingham City, Swansea City, Newcastle United, Crystal Palace, Wigan Athletic and Portsmouth'Interesting all but one of those clubs were relegated and some like Portsmouth down to the old 3rd Division. Tony Abrahams 78 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:00:45 Forget about other clubs and just concentrate on Everton. When you do that, you will realise that going 30 years without a trophy for a club like Everton is almost a criminal act. Dale Self 79 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:15:43 Yes, Mike @67 and Andy, character and chemistry are the basis. Otherwise, you must spend a fortune or get quite lucky. While we might want an Iraola or Frank (maybe Glassner) to inspire a well-assembled squad, Moyes is likely the best fit for reinstalling the crucial Everton values. Danny O'Neill 80 Posted 11/07/2025 at 20:34:40 Indeed, Robert @76.Win a trophy and qualify for Europe. Two trips to Wembley, maybe three if we progress in both competitions.I may be an delusional idiot, but this drought will end soon. George Stuart 81 Posted 12/07/2025 at 08:29:09 Here's an idea. We play Beto and Barry, at the same time ! 4 4 2The defences wouldn't know what to do. If thing were getting desperate we could just keep lobbing crosses in. Andrew Ellams 82 Posted 12/07/2025 at 08:46:18 George, playing 442 in the modern Premier League is footballing suicide. You'd get overrun in midfield every week. Dave Abrahams 83 Posted 12/07/2025 at 08:56:03 Andrew (82)Andrew in case you didnt notice we got overrun In midfield in lots of games last season under Dyche and Moyes. Tony Abrahams 84 Posted 12/07/2025 at 09:29:35 Im not advocating 4-4-2, but I dont specifically think you will get overrun playing any system if you have got your players very well drilled.Nearly every single team plays out from the back now, and everyone talks about playing high and pressing, but its not written in stone, even though it probably looks like it is. Danny O'Neill 85 Posted 12/07/2025 at 09:53:48 George @81. 81, a fine year by the way, the year I turned 10 years old!!Although I think 4-4-2 can still be used, I'm not sure it works all of the time in the modern game in my opinion. But it still can have a place when appropriate.Moyes, and a lot of other managers over the past decades, have preferred to play with one striker.If I was guessing, the only way I could see us playing two up front, would be a back 3, with 5 across the midfield. But I don't think we have the wing backs as it stands.Sometimes managers / coaches, will set up to match the opponent in a like for like. To me, that can sometimes result in a game of chess, cancelling each other out.I'm not going all American football, where they have an offensive team and a defensive team, but I do like flexibility in formation rather than set up like a subbuteo team. So it can switch depending on whether we are attacking or defending. It takes a lot of running though, back and forward as play changes.Personally, for now, I can't see the manager deviating too far from the 4-2-3-1 we've been using mostly to effect since he was appointed and changed the tactics and confidence in the players. Robert Tressell 86 Posted 12/07/2025 at 10:51:44 442 is fine as a defensive block and also fine if you adapt it when in possession to create passing lanes. But at the point you adapt it - it becomes 433 / 451 / 4231 variant anyway. What you cant do now is play two target man strikers together. Thats gone. Tony Abrahams 87 Posted 12/07/2025 at 11:10:31 Good thoughtful post Robert, but I think once you adapt anything on a football field, then things automatically change (thats why there are way too many inexperienced and underdeveloped coaches, imo mate) simply because football is a game that continuously moves around because it is not played on paper?Just make the most of the players you have got in your squad and play a system that suits them🤞How many times do you watch football and think that teams are more worried about the opponents, rather than trying to concentrate on their own strengths? Robert Tressell 88 Posted 12/07/2025 at 11:41:42 Tony, thats right - the formation is really just what gets flashed up in screen to broadly indicate the starting positions of 11 players. As the game unfolds the formation then shifts between different phases of play. Good teams probably play a good handful of different formations each game - as they work to open up passing lanes and close them off to the opposition. Eric Myles 89 Posted 12/07/2025 at 11:44:12 Danny #85, the last Subutteo team I managed played the old fashioned 2-3-5 formation. Danny O'Neill 90 Posted 12/07/2025 at 11:49:44 Get in Eric. Who dares wins as they say!!! Tony Abrahams 91 Posted 12/07/2025 at 12:05:46 I can still remember the first position I ever played as being an inside forward Eric, when the game was simply just all about trying to get forward and either score or create a goal!I loved it for one reason, because it meant I always had teammates close to me, although if my memory is correct I was one of those greedy little bastards who hardly ever used to pass the ball to anyone! 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