What’s going on at Everton? Does anybody know? Or care?

Everyone cares but are brain dead after discussing Lampard's future to the nth degree over the last week.

So now we have a two-fold problem – or is it a problem shared is a problem doubled!

Everton have never shone so dimly… but, if they were to lose, the only thing about the club that still shines brightly (in spite of some people in the media trying to give our fans stick for Iwobi getting his shirt back) then it wouldn't be long, before we ended up like a cartoon, in a cartoon graveyard.

Stick with it, everyone. I know it's hard, I doubt it's ever been this hard – well, not since the very dark days of December 1983 – but, if we are to turn on the manager, let's double that problem and demand real change in the place where we definitely need it the most.

3rd worst manager of all time if you make the time frame and statistics fit.

We could have said that about Howard Kendall Mk 1 at one point.

We can all frame statistics to fit an argument since Lampard has been in the job.

Lampard wasn't my first choice and I'm still on the fence, but to categorise him in that manner is premature. Have we not learned anything about continuously changing managers? Lampard isn't even a year in yet.

Kendall took 3 years to sort out the shit he inherited. Moyes was afforded 11 years to achieve nothing and some would have him back tomorrow.

Let's get some stability and stop the uncertainty just because of a few bad results.

Sean Dyche? Shaking my head. I want success and a team that completes. Not Burnley who eventually went down.

I'm not saying he is exactly my cup of tea, but I do think he knows how to run a club and set-up a team.

Frank, on the other hand has performed abysmally and shows no sign of correcting his mistakes.

Let me know how you feel after the Wolves game on Boxing Day, because by then we will have wasted 6 weeks.

It's a common debate I have with my brother, just as we used to about Allardyce.

Just not for me and where I want Everton to be.

Call me a dreamer!!!

As for Sean Dyche, he probably doesn't always get the credit he deserves. He did well at Burnley, kept them up, and did get them into Europe. Given the limitations at Burnley, he did the best he could there.

His football wasn't necessarily pretty to watch.

No one will ever find out how well he could do with a team with some finance behind him and what tactics he would employ with better players available.

Maybe they are stumped for quality managers who want to come to the club with little financial backing. Just hiring any old manager may not be a guarantee of improvement.

I posted the xG expectations stats on Lyndon's thread. We know we are seriously deficient offensively, but the defensive xG is quite shocking.

We are second to bottom on expected goals against, it flies in the face of the general perception that the defence is sorted. It isn't. Partly due to the midfield not protecting the defence as it should.

So we can't score and have the second worse defence by these stats.

If we can get someone in who would be a better organiser and better at game management, I think we would have a better chance of staying up. Getting that right man in is the problem.

And then he went to Manchester United.

Out of interest, how are you quantifying "but the defensive xG is quite shocking"?

The number of goals we have conceded is equal 4th in the EPL, I can't see how we are 2nd from bottom for expected goals against. How is that calculated.?

I don't have an agenda against Lampard and being honest I'm fed up of going for another new manager; our players are absolutely shocking at doing the "new manager bounce". They proved it on numerous occasions.

Yeah, of course, I would love to ask Lampard some questions, primarily Why stick Maupay up top when it's quite obvious he's crap at it?

But going for another new manager who will insist on bringing in more dead wood... fuck that! Why can't we get behind the team, support Frank and give Wolves a beating at Goodison?

I can't argue re your David Moyes comment. I will add that he was following on from Alex Ferguson which was always going to be hard.

The biggest obstacle for me is that he won't relocate from Kettering. He drove up the A14 & M6 to Burnley every morning... that's a long day for a 51-year-old.

I was buggered driving up & back from Wellingborough every other Saturday and wasn't even 40 at the time.

We didn't replace Richarlison for a player of equal stature, eh? Maybe that was because we had to sell him because we're skint and the players brought in fitted with the very low initial payment we needed to look at. Even the 㿏M rated Onana cost us just ٥M last summer.

We're back to wheeler-dealing in the same way we did for the likes of Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill & Gravesen.

Apart from the central defenders and possibly Onana, does anyone really believe Lampard would see McNeil & Maupay and maybe even Gana as his first choice last summer? I don't, he wanted Cornet from Burnley for example.

For me, he's not had enough time.

Man Utd went backwards under Moyes and they sacked him pretty promptly. Should we apply the same criteria to Frank?

"Dyche likes clubs where there is no expectancy."

Does he indeed? I watched him on a programme the other day and he seemed to be very keen to get another job in the Premier League. He would jump at the chance to come to Everton.

That's a very fair point. It's been a bit like who could replace Peter Schmeichel between the sticks at Man Utd. Always going to be a hard task. But Moyes failed massively as he did in other jobs. He's had a bit of a resurgence lately but it appears to be going south again.

Iain @18, you mention the word 'expectation'. That's my issue Moyes and Dyche: major on low expectation. That isn't what I want for my Everton.

Brendan, it depends. 1981 to 1983, Howard experimented, got it wrong, was on the brink and eventually found the players and the formula.

I'm holding my nerve for now.

Lack of ambition was no longer tolerated in these parts and subsequent managers have tried and failed to match that rekindled ambition. If they had done a Moyes and downplayed expectations, maybe they might have survived.

Although that's what Allardyce did and the fans chased him. Moyes is dead here.

It wasn't Frank who saved us last season, it was some timely Richarlison goals, and the fanbase.

I honestly think we're in more trouble than last season and, while I do like him, I don't think Frank has the ability to steer us away from relegation.

So let's have a look at recent examples... Allardyce and Moyes are lauded at Bolton and Everton and were repeatedly held back by a lack of finance and limited club size.

But, when each got their 'big move' to Newcastle Utd and Manchester Utd respectively, they both continued doing exactly the same thing they'd always done!

It only took Moyes a few months to start his usual downplaying of expectation by declaring Liverpool the favourites to win at Old Trafford!! Even though it was true, you just don't say that when you're managing Manchester United, for fuck's sake!!

Further down the pecking order, Tony Pulis took over at Middlesbrough, one of the biggest clubs in the Championship. Did he suddenly start slicking the ball around, playing wonderful football? No, he did not. The fans were disgusted with the tripe he served up.

And although we don't know for certain yet, having watched him pretty closely at my hometown club Burnley, I'm absolutely convinced Dyche will be exactly the same!

He was more than happy to play a central midfielder out on the right wing because it meant he could keep his beloved 4-4-2 formation but God forbid he actually change shape and field an attacking 4-3-3 at home!! God fuckin' forbid!!!

Did anyone see him on Monday Night Football a few weeks ago? He speaks brilliantly about ethics and cultures of a football club but when asked an actual football question on how Bournemouth could have got back into the game against West Ham, his only offering was to "get the ball in the box". Or words to that effect anyway!

He's a "good at what he does" manager but he's definitely not what I want for us.

I doubt his direct 4-4-2 style of football would be welcome at Goodison anymore.

All that is required is improvement. However, apart from Big Sam, who was brought in to complete a particular time-limited objective, no manager since Moyes has improved things. If they had... they would still be in post.

Frank has to show a glimpse of improvement, which his predecessors weren't able to provide; if he does, he may very well survive.

We're not asking for much but, as you say, the jury is very much out.

Forget Moyes's "knife to a gunfight" reference. The manager of Manchester United saying they aspire to be like Manchester City. Don't quote me exactly, but he said words to that affect. Now that's going to win over the natives right?

Is it Boxing Day yet?

You say: "I doubt his direct 4-4-2 style of football would be welcome at Goodison anymore" — over the turgid dross we get served up week after week? For me, it would.

Tom Davies has played 143 games and we have only lost 45 of them (31%) - 69% unbeaten…

Frank needs to go and he needs to take Thelwell with him, before they and their 㿞M worth of signings cost Tom Davies his Premier League status.

We had our chance to hire a competent manager who'd play nice football, and as usual, the brains trust in charge failed.

If I have to sit through pragmatic, ugly anti-football, I'll learn to like it. The alternative is opening the new stadium in the Championship.

It would be a lot more cut and dry if we didn't like Frank (which I never imagined saying, incidentally).

Danny, I look out for your posts and you are a really solid contributor on here. However, I have to challenge your comment that Moyes achieved nothing when he was here. He may not be the messiah some are still waiting for but he punched way above his weight for many years, he had buttons to spend.

I did not like the manner he left and I often found his play too negative but boy what I wouldn't give for regular Top 6 placements and some of the football we played under him. When was the last time we saw that on a consistent basis? I don't get the Moyes bashing on here at all.

Given the last week, I'd aspire to be like Bournemouth.

With time, hopefully, a statement like that will seem ridiculous... but timing and context are important.

That would also be committing to a manager and a style of play that will not fit long term, and the merry-go-round continues.

I'm not sold on Lampard, but my feeling is that we should stick with him. If we sack him, then yes, sack him now. Otherwise, stick with him until at least March.

We aren't worse than we were under Benitez. We had a good start under Benitez but, after the first 5 games, it was a train wreck.

We desperately need a forward line worth its salt to survive. I don't believe a manager change is what will save us this season, we need the club to utilize these 6 weeks to reset and develop a working system, and for the Thelwell to work on striking acquisitions in the first days of January – we can't be making deadline day desperation signings.

I see Forest signed (yet another) player, Scarpa from Palmeiras in Brazil. He would have been a good signing, attacking midfielder/forward, goals and assists, in his prime.

I still live in hope that 2 attacking signings, the introduction maybe of Mills and Cannon, and we could have a steady mid-table finish. It looks, and feels, bad now but, as the season will be, a couple of wins is all it takes to fly up the table. But our strikeforce is pathetic. That must be dealt with .

Sell Keane, Mina, Doucoure. Get in 2 forward players. And use these 6 weeks to develop a style of play.

In December 1983 a very young and very upset Danny was dismayed at the situation we were in. I ran away from the house and stood outside in the dark and, being the good Catholic I am, looked to the skies and prayed for Everton to come good.

5 months later I went to Wembley twice, watched us win a trophy and then saw us win the league 18 months later.

As much as some point to the possibility of failure, success is also just around the corner.

Perhaps we should all do the "Nine Tuesdays"

ps: Other religious (and none) options are available

People are always happy to blame the management team when things are going downhill.

We've lost Richarlison but still have the manager.

The fanbase were truly magnificent last season.

Perhaps the fanbase need to step up again this season. 😀

People aren't shitting on Frank Lampard. But they are questioning his ability to pull us out of the death spiral, which is not an unreasonable position.

When Frank took over, we were 15th. Even Frank suggested as the losses mounted we were fine... plenty of games and points to be won.

Soon we were in the Bottom 3 but then the fans rallied and fortunately there were three worse teams. I don't give much credit to the management team.

The fanbase is always there. We support them with unrivalled and unreserved passion. If they don't perform, they get both barrels. If they perform, they get the accolades. Win, draw or lose.

But they always get our support. Be that in the stadium, from a pub, a living room or far away place.

Forever.

It also told us such desperate measures can only mean one thing – the new stadium has killed us financially.

Fed up with the entire caper, Moshiri is looking for a way out and has cut us adrift. We are possibly in a more parlous state financially than in the old Kenwright/Moyes era.

So, we know what's going on – we just don't like to talk about it.

Wout Wegorst

He is on loan to Besitkas at the moment.

He can shoot with both feet

He can head a ball (even when there are other players around him)

He can chip the goalie

He is 6'5” - ish

And apparently he can score goals

😉

Maupay at 㾻M was never going to be the answer and, if we couldn't stretch to getting Cornet, then why spend 㿏M on two devoid-of-pace squad players? Sorry, Dwight. I do not see our logic myself.

The owner and board showed us how much of a plan they had last season, when they sacked the director of football for telling a few home truths, and then silenced him with a pay-off, and left many people to proportion the blame, to a ready-made scapegoat in Benitez (who it was obvious should never have been appointed in the first place).

What followed was the fans getting involved, which possibly changed the outcome of who got the vacant manager's job, and then came the invisible Strategic Review.

Anyone can see that the club haven't had much of a plan, other than throwing some money at whoever was in charge. This became the only answer, but it wasn't sustainable for a number of reasons, with bad decision after bad decision, just compounding our misery, until finally the money ran out. (Even if we had money, we couldn't spend it because of FFP.)

The lies continue (Barrett-Baxendale has been looking for alternative employment, being one example, IMO). Getting to the promised land offers the club a lot more scope to move forward. Does anyone actually believe this is possible, with our present owner, and his third-rate board?

Frank dillied and dallied last season until we slipped agonisingly into the Bottom 3 only to eventually find something from somewhere to scramble out.

Frank has to have some credit for the escape but more was down to Dele's cameo, Richarlison's return (scuffing shots in) and Dom's impact. The fans created the opportunity and gave the team belief.

I just don't see this being possible this time. If he stays, I see nobody with the quality of Richarlison to dig us out, Dominic will be coming back from another (three) injuries and there is no guarantee of him keeping healthy. Perhaps we will find a striker of note in January…

Last time Lampard was calmly telling us we had lots of points to play for. Every week, we would lose only to hear him reassure us that there were still so many points available etc, etc. There were four teams worse than us but this time it is a struggle to imagime even 3 worse than us, especially as relegation favourites Bournemouth just pulled our pants down twice in a week.

Obviously, change for the sake of it is pointless but, despite Frank's affable personality, his performance has been very poor.

I don't expect the club to move quickly. They are affraid of his popularity (which is starting to wane) and are happy to let him take the flak for our situation. I certainly don't want him to get the abuse that the Chairman and owner deserve. I expect Frank will be given more time and it would take two hammerings in Sydney to cause further ripples back in Blighty.

So prepare for an underwhelming striker in January, more bullshit from Lampard as he tries not to take any blame for our demise and the he will be sacked in February or March when the fans give up on us, in the hope that a new guy will give us a bounce.

I can see it now, and that is why I want action now, so a new manager has a few weeks to change things.

And as for 4-4-2 Iain, I have been hoping to see us play it for months.

That's a good point about Brands – the removal of a man of his calibre suggests it's all a bit weird at board level and my suspicion is it's all on Moshiri. He just seems so out of his depth.

Moshiri assured us to wait until the transfer deadline passed before judging our progress. Well, now we're judging the whole shit show, including Lampard and it's obvious we're headed for a relegation battle with even less chance of us surviving than last season's great escape.

Moshiri's only chance is to get rid of Lampard now, and recruit a firefighter type manager, the obvious one being Dyche, whose experience could possibly have the time to give us a chance of galvanising the team into a solid unit to fight for the points we will need to survive… but that's not going to happen.

As we drift aimlessly towards the Bottom 3, we can reflect in April on this last opportunity that we missed out on, by an owner whose only talent seems to be just that, squandering opportunities by making awful decisions at the wrong time, and that's how he'll always be remembered.

The club is dithering. hoping for an upturn. Even if Dominic returns in time for Boxing Day, there is now a huge worry about his health. And we all know that he is useless unless totally fit.

I would hope for Dyche, as he is a no-nonsense manager who can organise a team.
Those of us who wanted a so-called progressive coach have had our fingers burnt by this Pep-wannabee.

If the Board and Owner had any nous, they would bin Lampard and get in someone like Dyche. At least he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, unliked Frank… who is making a pig's ear of our club.

No... so do we trust Frank and his team again with whatever money we have in January? That's the question Moshiri should be asking himself.

I doubt he even understands the question. Seems a bit dim and gullible for a billionaire. Ask your nearest theatre impresario.

In my view, a half-way house between a better Allardyce and a lesser Martinez. Wigan and Burnley. Both clubs went down. Some will say Dyche didn't technically take Burnley down, but they were on their way.

Apparently he was in dispute with the club in his last year. Well, introduce him to this and he's set up for failure.

Not for me, Eddie mate.

Once he losses a couple of games, he's gone. We are just delaying the inevitable.

Frank is not being sacked.

Can't we can all this nonsense?

The reset that was needed from last season just hasn't materialised. Frank signed 8 new players but the style hasn't changed at all from last season. We struggle to work the ball from defence through midfield up to the forwards.

And what was meant to be an improved defence is now starting to leak goals: 2 at home to Leicester and we lost heavily to Bournemouth twice. Frank had the close season to bring in players and to work through the problems that beset us last season.

We sold Richarlison in June and waited till a couple of days before the window closed before signing a forward to help limit Richarlison's loss. But Maupay is far from a Richarlison and playing him as a lone striker is never going to work.

I know many posters are suggesting if Frank buys 2 forwards that might help the situation, and while that's possibly true, until Calvert-Lewin got injured just days before the season, I got the impression that Frank had decided that he was happy with just Gordon, Calvert-Lewin and Gray for the start of the season with no back-up striker.

But I think he more or less spent whatever FFP allowed us, so I don't see us signing 2 forwards with the quality needed to turn things around. You have to ask the question: Did he really need to spend the money on 4 midfielders at the expense of a decent forward to replace or play with Calvert-Lewin?

There would have to be a remarkable turnaround in form for Frank to stay in charge. Can you really see that happening?

Let's do this. If he is going to be sacked, as you say, then let's just wait for it to happen.

Then, once he is actually sacked, we can have this wonderful conversation, yeah?

You currently have three topics about Frank's future running on this site.

'Knives Out or Dig In? The Case For and Against Frank Lampard' . 'Has Lampard's Time Run Out?' and this one.

So why are you asking us not to speculate about his future, depressing as it is? I would say it's the only thing up for discussion.

I think it was Paul's post @57 that put me over the edge. I imagined it read:

Does anyone actually think we won't be struck by an earth-destroying asteroid come the end of the season?

Once it hits, we're gone. We are just delaying the inevitable.

Foregone conclusion followed by logical response?

No, because it's not a foregone conclusion. Frank Lampard is still the manager. A whole week of ranting hasn't changed that and it isn't going to.

If he's to be retained, wouldn't his time be better spent watching the World Cup and trying to scout new players? How many World Cup Wonders have then proceded to set the Premier League alight? The World Cup is not a good measure of season-long player ability and there may be the odd exception. But this World Cup ain't going to be a measure of any player

As for replacing Frank, I think that is the worst idea since we appointed Fat Sam. The man who did sweet fuck-all and walked away with ٣ million. Oh sorry… he didn't do nothing – he spunked 㿙 million plus wages on Walcott and Tosun. Great buys they proved to be.

It seems like Everton are also solely responsible for global warming after taking a flight to Australia, and well, would you believe it, they've got to fly back as well. Despite there being thousands of planes flying all over the world each day, and probably a few million during the week, and jeez, god knows how many in a year, how irresponsible of Everton!

I trust the author of this OP takes his annual holiday in this country, driving, naturally an electric car. As for me, well I'm off on me fourth jollies this year, flying to Dubai next week. Happy Hols everyone!

There's not a lot else to discuss, fans are worried, and the entire point of your website is for fans to discuss, connect and express how they feel about the club's direction of travel.

"Why is Lampard, with his extensive and expensive entourage, still the manager? If he's to be retained, wouldn't his time be better spent watching the World Cup and trying to scout new players? Why wait 6 weeks to fire Lampard instead of firing him now?"

So why would we not expect it to become a shooting gallery for Frank? With respect to the writer of the article, I gotta say, them's some dodgy donuts!!

I think Martinez watched the World Cup and brought us back Besic, whilst concurrently not being present to sort out the pre-season as he was busy doing his pundit gig. From a more recent one we got Mina, who I rate ability wise, but clearly hasn't lived up to expectation.

That's why we have a scouting network (I think!). The manager's job is to manage the current team, give out his expectation and let the DoF / scouting system get on with their job.

This is about keeping the squad not involved in the World Cup fresh and ready for the next Premier League fixture.

When I found this thread, I had the same reaction as James at 66. But the boss thought for some reason it was worth posting... As Trevor pointed out, why we needed three, I have no idea.

This thread had sat here with no comments for a few days... then since yesterday afternoon, it seems everyone has piled in from the other two threads on the same exceedingly repetitive topic.

Maybe I was hoping for some respite but I can see we're headed for 6 weeks of this... It's enough to make me want to watch the World Cup!

Before we know it, we'll be at home to Wolves and getting a result.

First, until the World Cup gets going, what else have we got to talk about... and second; let's revisit your " "Look,
Frank is not being sacked." after the Brighton game.

My quess is that, unless we end up with a minimum of – and I'm aware the middle one is City away – 4 points, in a results driven business, the manager's position is under pressure.

For me, I just don't think he is. There seems to be little consistency in the side, other than poor results, and he's had almost a whole season. The transfer business in the summer was just shocking. We clearly needed to sign at least one, if not two out-and-out strikers. Even some hungry striker(s) from a decent Championship side would have been better than Maupay for 㾻M.

6 weeks is a long time in football and, if the powers that be are not thinking of sacking Lampard during the World Cup, I hope they are at least reviewing options to replace him in January, if results from Boxing Day on are poor.

Possibly replacement? What about Villas-Boas, he's available I believe. Would he come is another matter. Before people start screaming, take stock and consider. He's managed Chelsea, Spurs and Marseille amongst others, so has a hell of a lot more experience than our current manager, including managing in the Premier League.

Anyway, Lampard for me was always a 'name' signing with not much substance. I'd be surprised if he's still here come February, when the board will start crapping themselves.

I am pretty sure we spent another 㾻M on average squad players, there's 㿊M to 㿏M we could have spent on a striker. That's why I don't trust frank to spend another cent of EverTon FC money.

Even now, with disaster a looming reality, people are treating the hideous condition of the club's boardroom management as a glitch, a temporary loss of a few games. The penny never seems to drop. Even relegation wouldn't register with them.

Carbon Footprints? Your's looks like a stampede, the amount of jollies you have!

Even Judith Chalmers had less. 🤔😜😂🤷‍♂️