Everton played Manchester Utd in secret practice game

What happened in Manchester United vs Everton behind-closed-doors friendly

Why Everton faced Manchester United at Carrington training ground this week

Strange one that given we have them in the next round of the FA Cup.

I believe Wolves have just had two games in southern Spain, behind closed doors. And Man Utd played in front of a crowd at Cadiz last week. Brighton, who we play in first week of January, played Aston Villa in Dubai.

I would be a lot happier if we'd have had a December training camp in the sun. And played a friendly in front of paying spectators.

Wolves also have a League Cup game next week (against Gillingham, I think) to help get them up to speed.

But, admittedly, what do I know about such things?

I too thought we would have had a more serious, competitive warm-up game before the restart, a bit like at the end of a pre-season.

How about a warm-up (cold-up?) game in the Shetland Isles? There must be a footy pitch up there, and to toughen them up properly, they have no power at the moment either.

We need another very competitive game before Boxing Day and we must be ready. There should be no Christmas for Everton and the players must be in top condition.

Being bottom of the Premier League, they cannot afford any injuries, so I think it will be pretty much their reserves who will be contesting that cup game next Tuesday. Of course, they could have another behind-closed-doors friendly lined up, but I've not seen or heard of any.

Why play in secret?... modern footy gets worse, I swear...

Roll on Boxing Day.

Isn't it funny, 9,400 Scousers going to an Everton away game, roughly slightly more than 50% of the total number of RS Scousers that have a season ticket at Anfield with a Liverpool postcode… 5,832 to be exact.

THE CITY'S ALL OURS!

THE CITY IS BLUE!

The pictures I keep seeing of the Liver Building are continuously showing her illuminated in blue lights!

We played some lower level teams, went on jollies, then played blag training match with zero eyes on it.

Time will tell who was smarter, but I suspect we'll know soon.

LFC have 27,000 season ticket holders – 5,832 have Liverpool postcodes (21.6%); Everton have 30,500 with 25,647 local postcodes (84.1%).

Just remind me what colour the City is?

Imagine what that number would be if they went 27 years without winning a trophy!

Would be about 100-300 tops!

Shove your tourist celebration up your arses. One cup and you will see the flares from Manchester. You will hear the cheers from Wales. An Everton trophy will spark celebrations the like of which this City has never seen...And we wont have to count the crowd twice.

Give us this fucken trophy. The pain of waiting for it has started to become a physical pain

The normal process doesn't really apply to us. We are one of the most successful teams in British football but, unlike the others, we have never done dynasties. Consistency doesn't live at Goodison.

We come from nowhere, win silverware, then we disappear again. That's the magic of this club. The next trophy may be 20 years away... or it could be just around the corner.

That's who we are.

Everton will defy the odds and will be inspired by the memories of that bloody unlucky defeat at their place 40 years ago, when for me Everton were showing good signs of becoming a very good team.

An epic away day, Everton took, at least 15,000 that day, to a ground that in fairness Everton had done well at in the late 1970s, early-to-mid 1980s, and early 1990s.

That game went both ways, but some poor finishing early doors and a superb 1:1000 volley by Stapleton saw Everton go in the Quarterfinal.

Man Utd beat Brighton in that Final, and recall Jimmy Melia's Brighton beat Liverpool at our old ground in the FA Cup that season,

I was thinking last night if Lukakus's penalty had been scored in that sem-final vs Man Utd, Everton would and should have beaten Palace? Small margins...

Different era, pitches, but those were the days, memories of the good old days.

This time and with the emerging new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock now on the panorama of the North Docks landscape, and how well it's looking, befitting the legacy of Goodison Park, fate will be on Everton's side.

Very scary where time goes, but as many have said on this thread, now is the time for Everton to win a trophy.

UTFTs, “What's Our Name?”

The 25,000 is not with a Liverpool postcode, it is however 25,000 season ticket holders, who come under Merseyside, so it will include places like St Helens, Newton Le Willows and other places.

When lockdown was in place, the St Helens Borough came under Merseyside for lockdown, so those season ticket holders, although not having a Liverpool postcode, were eligible for the ballot for tickets.

I managed to get a season ticket this season, although I do not have a Liverpool postcode, but I do come under Merseyside.

It's still something great though having 25,000 Merseysiders, as season ticket holders, thanks to a few of us woolybacks.

I'm with Darren on 2 counts.

Take our last triumph. That latter stage run-in was no walk in the park. A strong Newcastle team that had challenged for the title for most of the previous season and were comfortably in the top 6. Then much fancied and media darlings Tottenham. How we emphatically dispatched them and ruined the dream final that was seemingly planned. And then beating Ferguson's Man Utd, who, but for that Cole missing "should have scored" chances, they would have been Champions.

Anything is possible.

Like Darren, and as I've also said similar before, when this club wins something, there will be a blue explosion. Not choreographed, staged nonsense. Pure outpouring of emotion, tears of joy and unrivalled celebrations, bottled up over 28 years.

Like a dormant volcano that suddenly and spectacularly erupts without much notice.

One last dance for the Grand Old Lady.

I'm getting (very) boring, continuously going on about the chairman of Everton, I know, but the more I think about what we have become, the more I despair at a man who has definitely never had the best interests of Everton Football Club at heart.

We won't win a fucking thing whilst the curse remains at our football club, imo. I'd love to be proved wrong, I'd love nothing better than to see the Evertonians going absolutely berserk at Wembley in May but, whilst the jinx remains, I highly doubt it.

The problem is we keep papering over it by adding managers and players to cover over the cracks; however, over time the crack has got wider than a subsidence-damaged building.

As long as he has backing from a minority, and people happy to clap him on the big screen, the problem will not go away.

On another basis, the majority of us could be wrong, and the minority correct.

It's how many feel.

We want the team to win week-in & week out. But we want a club that reflects our history, our traditions, but one that also is looking to the future. A club actually deserving of the tremendous support that they don't deserve.

Do I want us to beat Man Utd, progress to Wembley and win a trophy. Of course I do, and I'll be there as often as I can to witness it should it happen.

Does that translate to glossing things over and letting those who have neglected our club for decades off the hook?

Absolutely no way.

Change, change, change. With a fantastic new stadium on the horizon and opportunity, we can't forget what certain people have allowed to happen to this proud club of ours.

Otherwise, our next trophy becomes another flash-in-the-pan 1995 moment.

I know it's like going down a rabbit hole but, assuming 'ulterior motives' means 'hidden purposes' that you say Kenwright had when he took over the club, I'd be curious to know if you can describe them further?

Even I would agree there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this, but only if I could justify the years of failure. (Being best of the rest just isn't Everton, and would never satisfy a proper Toffee like myself.)

That's not to mention the countless lies, the pathetic training ground deal, and even claiming that he was glad that KEIOC kept Everton in our city.

This was after a court case that cost the club years of time, money and effort, and also after being told years before that it was never going to happen.

He has obviously been a puppet because he was a pauper, and for people like the man, he described as being like a magician, I'd guess?

I could go on, the list is endless, but watching Wayne Rooney, saying the club was basically trying to sell him behind his back, also makes me think of only one man?

Only a man with an ulterior motive would have considered selling such a talent so quickly and so cheaply and still found the time for some crocodile tears. But it obviously fucking worked, like a treat.

I will buy Everton a striker with my own money

And suddenly the seeds of the curse were laid. He was unfortunately telling lies even before he acquired us.

Live the dream and make lots of money?

Certainly no doubt that is what he's been doing... but if you'll forgive me, it sounds just a bit like knowledge after the fact, much like your invidious rapsheet of his subsequent crimes against Evertonian humanity.

No, I was more interested in the timeframe you suggested: "Kenwright had ulterior motives when he got hold of Everton".

I'd imagine the motive was simply to take control of the club. The reality was he was stepping into a void that no-one else seemed interested in.

He had backed down in the face of competition a few years earlier, and when fan pressure finally forced Peter Johnson to sell in 1999, Kenwright beat him down in terms of price over a very long period before pulling off the True Blue Holdings deal.

Considering what he had pulled off, with the help of his then friends, I think at that point he really was living the dream – and pretty cocky with it – the cat that got the cream. Although even then he brought back Sir Phillip Carter for a few more years as Chairman of the Board before finally taking the throne himself in 2004. So a bit of a lull, it seems, before he would really live the dream?

I can only guess if making the millions he has done was a hidden motive; I suspect that he may have seen in the 1990s that the Premier League was becoming a big success for other clubs and he wanted to be a part of that, but always stated in those early years he didn't have enough money to make it happen himself.

I very much doubt if he thought back then it would give him a return of around £40M and counting. No, I don't think it's anything to do with 'ulterior motives' – more sheer opportunism and being enough of a bastard to see off anyone who would challenge him as his position strengthened over the years. So much so that he has become untouchable.

I was thinking about Bill Kenwright's very successful show Blood Brothers, and remember going to see it in London. The theatre was just off Tottenham Court Road, although I'm certain it must have been shown in more than one, considering the longevity of this very good stage show.

If this was the case, Kenwright will have obviously had to pay a lot of rent down the years...

He's been that successful at Everton, he's now bought his own theatre. This might have been a lifetime's dream, but it's also a very sensible plan, because instead of paying rent, the man is now receiving rent.

The same man sold Bellefield and then the land for Finch Farm, and chose instead to rent a training ground and the rent isn't cheap either.

This is Kenwright's tenure at Everton described in a nutshell: Survive.

Trevor Birch, the firefighting administrator who never lasted long, allegedly told Bill Kenwright that his only choice was to sell ‘the club's only asset' and when Kenwright produced Chris Samuelson, I stated at the time, “that cunt is just an extra from Emmerdale farm”.

The short memories don't disguise the fact that he was welcomed as the messiah when he arrived. The kopite had been deeply unpopular and adoring Everton fans couldn't get "True Blue Bill" in quick enough. He was just a boy whose intentions were good... or so we all thought.

Le'ts remember how it happened. Despite our relatively recent success, our club had already been left behind. Tory Boy saw us as one of the Big 5, but wanted to run us like a pub team – "We don't warrant a two-tiered Park End".

It wasn't long before Johnson was hawking the club all around the world. We needed a proper owner, a knight in shining armour to ride in. There were no takers... a cowboy rode in instead.

In fairness to Kenwright, he needed at least a couple of snookers from the off. He could have taken the crowd with him but, for reasons I will never understand, he chose to take us for fools instead.

Like a footballing Gollum, he had his hands on "My Precious"... and we were fucked.

I totally agree with your sentiments, we both agree Kenwright should have stepped down a long time ago but to blame everything on him is totally over the top.

It seems irrespective of what any thread appears on T/W Kenwright appears on the thread. Maybe our editors should have a section on Kenwright and everyone can post on that thread rather than it being the main topic on every thread.

We have had managers walk away with tens of millions for being a failure; we have had average players paid ridiculous amounts for producing next to nothing.

We are now (if reports are right) offering Iwobi £100,000 per week; he hasn't scored many, hasn't created much, but because he has upped his work rate substantially, we again are willing to pay him the sort of money only players in the top 20% get.

I think we both fully agree with Tony. Kenwright has been very bad news for this club. I just think there is so much more to our story.

It drives me fucking nuts when people say our managers are blameless because they have worked for Kenwright. Managers have overcome the handicap of working for poor boss's since time began. You need look no further than Howard and Big Joe for proof of that.

The purpose of the hierarchy of any football club should be to provide the manager with a war chest to enable him to do his job. Moshiri for all his faults has done that.

While we both fully understand the continuity a well run club can provide. Neither of us have seen the footy match which was decided in the boardroom

What had we become? (Gullible, easy to kid fuckers, who had began to be thankful for mediocrity, maybe?)

Kenwright adored Moyes, and between them they created a narrative that plucky little Everton, were punching well above their weight.

I sometimes wish Moyes would have stayed because I’d just began to boycott Goodison, just before he departed, to an absolutely incredible reception - normally only afforded to someone who had been an Everton Great? (Oh dear what had we become?)

Thankfully I’d already had enough of them by this stage because it was obvious that they were nothing but a pair of mediocre jokers, imo, who were taking the piss out of the club I love.

One was one of the highest paid managers in the country, and was obviously being rewarded for helping to keep the wolves from the owners door, and the other was that owner, who had always spoke about Everton, in the highest possible terms, even though he was was very happy for them to become plucky little Everton, if it helped to keep him in charge unopposed.

The more I think about it, the more I realise we (Evertonians) have got the club we deserve? I'm actually beginning to realise that the only thing more boring than Everton Football Club right now, is writing about Bill Kenwright, even though I don’t believe the club can move forward whilst his horrible curse remains.

For this I’m very sorry, because one thing I’ve never felt about Everton before, is that they are fucking boring. (How sad that this is a good description of our club imo now? - oh dear what have we befucking-come?)

At the last count around 37,000 Evertonians attend home matches and yet the same 20 odd moaners on here are convinced they speak for us all. Or should I say moan for us all.

It's getting boring now.

And everyone who post here posts for themselves, and only themselves.

I'm sure at the time he sold, he thought he was going to get massive funding for the stadium through the commonwealth games stuff, and they both thought they would be quids in.

Kenwright has done Everton no favours, but we have to acknowledge that he kept us at a high level for a long time, regardless of how much money he put in. That was down to his know-how and people management. The fact it was all done for his own benefit is irrelevant really.

Let’s face it, nobody. was knocking down the door to buy Everton during that period. If they were, all they would have had to do was say to the press, 'I want to buy, but this bugger won't shift' and Kenwright would have been toast. But we had an old stadium and looked our age...

Once bitten twice shy? Oh wait – you also wanted Kendall sacked in the early '80s. And were opposed to signing Alan Harper. Quite a track record.

Well I never!!!

A former Everton player, a centre-forward, scored the winner and saved a penalty in an FA Cup game. He wasn't playing for Everton at the time unfortunately, we got him later in his career when his best days were long gone.

I think that was before Kenwright became a Bluenose, it was during his kopite supporting days!!

I'm not going on about that fella anymore, Dave, because he makes me feel towards Everton exactly how Colin Harvey feels about football.

I've heard things have progressed with the sale of Everton, to it now being in the hands of the solicitors.🤞

I've also been told that considering how badly the club has been ran for years, that don't expect any news to be good news, and this was possibly why Moshiri was doing his best to get himself photographed in Qatar, the other week?

Let me guess: the new owners plan to keep Bill?

1+1 usually equals 2, his only other interest being financial, and, being in a place where there is mega money and all the people who have vested interests in football ownership, do we link the two? Duh... the only question in my mind is who and how big a shareholding he sells?

Everton v Wolves, just ignore the coaching staff, go out and play football, win, enjoy... that would be a nice Christmas present.

I was hearing that the man Moshiri was photographed with is a very prominent broker, Christine, which instantly concerned me regarding the sale of Everton, which allegedly should have already gone through.

I'm finished with talking about it now, because a man actually said to me last week that we are finished if we get American owners, and said it genuinely, without a hint of irony!

For the sake of consistency, I agree with Darren. Many seemed satisfied at the time when Johnson was ousted. It seemed no-one would touch us but we wanted Johnson gone. A supposed Evertonian at the helm pleased a lot of supporters at the time if we are honest with each other.

I personally can't buy into the notion that Kenwright and Moyes were moderately successful over the entirety of their joint tenure. Done the necessary to start with and mostly made us hard to beat.

But they gradually created the environment and narrative to fool us into thinking plucky little Everton punching above its weight equated to some form of achievement. It bred acceptance of mediocracy and lowering of expectation. They complimented each other in their knife to a gunfight mentality.

Even though it wasn't Everton (and don't quote me word for word), but his "United aspire to be like City" comment still makes me cringe. As a United fan, I'd have been fuming.

Meanwhile, the club stagnated off the pitch. No strategy, shoddy marketing at best, and Goodison Park hardly changing. We have a plastic roof over the Gwladys Street and a basic replacement stand at the Park End.

Are managers blameless? Not entirely. They select the team, set the formation, choose the tactics and make changes when needed. With the players they have been able to recruit with the support of the board.

But can all of those very different types of managers really be to blame for what has happened at Everton over the past 3 decades? Four decades if you include the backend of the 80s when the decline really started. We were just over the top of the Big Dipper then, holding on before the inevitable plunge, but have failed to rise on the next cycle.

Managers have been used as pawns to deflect a lot of the blame for how the club has been run at the higher echelons, the more I think about it.

Bill Kenwright has been on the Everton board in some capacity since 1989. Other board members have walked, often because of alarm at his decisions; incompetent decisions.

Hindsight is a great thing, but the fabricated promises of funding and True Blue Holdings being the opportunity to restore the club to where it belongs. His words, not mine. Restore us to what? Apart from the good times, I have seen gradual regression and overseeing 3 very close and very emotional near misses with relegation on his watch.

He has survived and apparently profited throughout those 4 decades of decline and failure to meet the standards of Everton Football Club and build on where we were in 1989, which still wasn't far off building on what we had achieved.

I can understand the claim that one person is not to blame for everything. But there has been one consistent since 1989 who has remained while others walked or were sent to the guillotine in the case of many a manager.

I read a comment from Andy Gray's autobiography in which he claims Everton were set to appoint him as manager, but Kenwright insisted on Kendall MK3. Would Gray have been successful? Who knows, but talk about emotional bullshit overriding a decision and setting a club legend up for near catastrophic failure. Then again, most Everton managers in these past decades have been set up for failure.

At the very least, his time was done the moment Moshiri came in. But then it now looks like Moshiri was naive, done a deal with Kenwright and left him with the keys to Bill's kingdom on his chequebook.

At least Moshiri has followed through on the promise of a stadium.

Just go, Mr Kenwright. If you are an Evertonian, you'd have done that years ago.

I think in Everton's case it is the opposition. Players ignore the coaches by playing deep, not pushing forward, going through the motions passing wise and not putting the effort in to get into position to receive a pass. Errors showing a lack of commitment.

I agree with you regarding Moshiri's visit to Qatar.

There is a 30-minute episode about Neville Southall talking through his childhood and rise to become who some describe as the best keeper in the world for a period during his peak. Interviews with the big man too.

Not to mention some Memory Lane footage and Everton lifting silverware.

Health warning, it will make you cry as much as it will make you smile with pride.

Thanks for 54

Silly question I know that's not possible, but in another 13 days, it will be 28 years, since Everton last won a trophy, so maybe you could tell us how any self-respecting Evertonian, could even be ‘remotely happy' about this?

I certainly don't and often get accused of being overly optimistic when my attention switches to the pitch and the team.

My more sensible son and younger brother shake their heads in disbelief at my enthusiasm. My wife just gives me one of those looks and accuses me of being 5 years old. The dogs nod and look at the dog food cupboard.

We all speak for ourselves on the one thing we all care passionately about. Sometimes we agree. Sometimes we differ. Sometimes we argue.

We have different views but come together in wanting the same thing. A competitive and hopefully successful Everton.

I don't speak for 20 people, 37,000 people or the many more countless global supporters. I speak for me and my views on my club.

They are the custodians. We are the constant. It's our club.

I am not sure what to make of that comment, mate. Ten rounds of what with Schofield? He's is hardly a heavyweight interviewer. :)

Anyway keep up the Kenwright theme please, I go to post something and see you have already put what I want to say on the thread.

Ten rounds with Phil!!! I doubt he has ever bought ten rounds or lasted ten rounds!!!

Unless Frank becomes more ruthless and pro-active, it'll be more of the same away-day misery to come methinks.

28 years without a pot... disgraceful...but our club have treated the League Cup with disdain for over 60 years now... Why???

Everything you say about Kenwright has been said a hundred times on here before. You knew before you posted that there will be people who will voice their approval You claim the managers are not entirely blameless then slip into "but they are really" mode.

I'd go the other way and say they were ENTIRELY responsible for the shite selections. brain-numbing tactics, the really poor use of funds made available to them and the shameful football we have had to endure.

Neither Kenwright nor Moshiri dictated that we set up in such a cowardly manner – often against squads which were completely inferior to ours. They didn't arrange the annual cup collapses, nor did they insult the fanbase by saying "I'll take your £8-10-12 Million, but don't expect me to do anything with these players"...... Fucken shameful!

Big Sam aside, Moshiri didn't bring in only bad managers. Carlo Ancelotti is walking proof of that. His crime has been to hire managers who have been wholly unsuitable for this gig. A blind man could see Ancelotti was a bad fit. Didn't stop the worship or the continued exoneration.

We paid hundreds of millions for managers and their entourages – if it really is impossible to succeed, why don't we just drag a coach out of the crowd? Why do people call for the best managers if the job's impossible... for anyone?

The argument which lays all blame at Kenwright's feet is a bone idle one. It's one which refuses to consider everything else. The "one constant" argument is a bit like blaming Eddie Stobart for all those twat drivers who drive right up your arse in 50 mph zones after claiming they`re safe drivers when applying for the job. Everybody is accountable.

BTW,. Andy Gray had the job. He chose to stay in television instead. He later voiced his regret because he realised he could always have gone back to television after trying management.

Kenwright's charge sheet is enough to damn him. Making up stuff on top of what he is already guilty of only creates a doubt about his true crimes in the eyes of his supporters.

I'm giving up on Kenwright now because, after everything the man has done for us Evertonians, I'm still to hear any one of his supporters, come out and praise him, because they are constantly having to fight and bat away posters like myself, ,James.

I've genuinely learned nothing from any defender of Bill Kenwright down the years, but maybe that's my own fault because I can't see any good in the man with regards to his sickeningly long and boring association with Everton FC.

Sam, Carlo, Marco, Marcel, Moyes, Martinez, Ferguson, Unsworth, Rafa, Steve Walsh, Wyness, Birch, Elstone, the Brazilian Peter Reid, Krøldrup, AVDM, etc have all gone. Mostly sacked. So, while no one exonerates them of their miss-steps, they have paid the price.

Ergo, if the problems continue unabated for 28 years then there is obviously a bigger problem at the heart of it. A problem that has never been addressed and one whose original fanboys seem unwilling to admit.

I did say that I understand the blame can't be laid at the feet of one person. I also did say that managers are not exempt from blame. I'm not exonerating any of them.

But the problems with Everton over the decades lie deeper than the manager position, in my opinion.

Your view seems to be putting more emphasis on manager after manager that has got it wrong. Shout if I'm interpreting that incorrectly. I know you're not shy at doing so!

On my basis, if I look at Manchester City and Chelsea; to a large degree, it hasn't really made a difference who the manager was over the years as they got the club strategy and structure in place.

On your shout, you could argue Klopp made a difference, but only when the club was well run and they invested in the players he needed. They set him up for success, but it took 3 years or so.

I think this is one of those where you and I will continue to be polar opposites. But only to a degree. A good manager can come in and improve a squad. The problem being, we haven't had a good in-depth squad for years. The occasional good team or first 14, but scratch the surface and there is not a lot left in the pantry.

You know your football, Darren, and you know Everton better than most. I think we are just differing on where to point the finger. Even though I think we agree on a lot too.

Not that he would touch it, but Guardiola wouldn't turn this squad around. We can't keep blaming managers. It's nearly 36 years of mismanagement from the top down, not the bottom up.

Better run club. Better players. Then the manager, whoever that is, can be set up with a chance for success.

I didn't make anything up, by the way. I tend to be careful if I quote. That was from Andy Gray's autobiography, not me plucking it out of my arse.

With regard to Moyes, we all have a level of competence and most of us know what we can and can't do. Even if he had Moshiri's money, could he have taken us into the Top 6?
He couldn't at Man Utd and he hasn't at West Ham Utd.

The dust is settling and The World Cup is over. It's back to business. Why Everton, who have Man Utd as FA Cup rivals, wanted to play them in a friendly, I'll never know.

Frank hasn't been to Qatar. Neither have many of our players. They haven't kicked a ball in anger for several weeks and themselves haven't been kicked in anger.

For our next game, I expect them to come out of the blocks fit, fast and furious. I expect them to have a game plan and to press and harry the opposition; if not, what has been going on?

To all Blue ToffeeWebbers who post or just read, health and happiness in 2023. Good fortune to you all and our club.

You are not reading it right – although I'm still trying to master the art of shouting on a keyboard. Mine doesn't make a sound.

I don't put more emphasis on the managers. I have called them all out, That's for sure, but I have criticised Kenwright more than any of them.

The difference we have is that you question: "Can all those different managers be REALLY to blame?" My answer to that question is a very definite YES. Of course they are to blame for the shit job they did.

I have been posting on this website long enough to know which way the wind blows. That doesn't mean I'll post in order to sail with it. I can think for myself and I see major flaws in the argument that it doesn't matter who manages Everton.

This "one constant" argument is bone idle. It does my head in.

I had the same boss for 22 years but I won't be pointing the finger at him for every time I fucked up. I expected blame and I take ownership.

I certainly don't expect people to tell me it's ok because my boss was shite.

Andy Gray talking about Neville taking the Valencia job:

"It's something I wish I'd done when I had the opportunity. My chance was at Everton, but I felt it was the wrong time. Now I wish I had a go at it, because I could always have gone back to television."

Actually just found this interview from May with Everton chief scout Jamie Hoyland.

"I've been lucky, I've travelled the world doing it. I've been to Brazil a couple of times, Chile, and Peru. All of Europe looking at players, and brilliant it is.”

"But people go on about scouting and this is another thing now. Oh I found him, oh I did that, you don't because really the world is a small place now and everyone knows who the good players are.

“It is fitting them for your club. Somebody who might be right for Man City might not be right for Everton."

Don't we have permanent scouts in these places? He makes it seem like he goes on an occasional holiday and takes in a game or two.

Also, his last comment irked me. Might be right for Man City but not Everton? Surely we both want good players? If you're doing remote scouting, you're not paying top dollar for world stars that obviously we can't afford. So why would some kid in Chile be good for Man City but no good for us?

I agree with taking responsibility, more so when it's you (not you personally) who fails in what you're charged to do. I know that and you know that.

The club as an institution has been poorly run since I can remember. It has at best stood still.

Yes, I saw that quote also from Gray. Good job he didn't precede Neville's path. That near 4-month stint at Valencia quickly made him realise he would be better cut out to be part of the Bury and Bootle double-act on Sky.

Kenwright had no part in that decision

Anyway, whilst we are debating (not arguing), I saw this on the club website. At this time of year, very humbling.

Link

Some things we do get right.

Sometimes, in our desperation for success, we forget that

I am angry about the situation we find ourselves in – relegation candidates – after all the money that has been spent on players and managers. Yes, I am angry with the players, the managers, and definitely the directors. Personally, I am struggling to get angry with Moshiri – at least he has been putting his hand in his pocket instead of putting his hand out.

Yep, I am fed up and angry with the lot of them.

It was well known that Howard had a serious drink problem, proof of such was when I phoned up to go on Radio Merseyside on the day he was appointed, I was asked what I was going to say about his appointment?

I told them I wasn't happy about his appointment and that it wouldn't work. They said "Okay but don't mention his drink problem" (as if I would) but they knew about the problem on Radio Merseyside – why didn't anybody at Everton know about it?

I was told by a good friend of Howard, an ex-Everton player who loved Howard and had very good reasons for his admiration of Howard, that Howard would fail in his third go at managing the club; I already knew the reason,

Howard was in no position to manage any football club due to his illness which was obvious to anybody who saw him most nights, and that was before he was appointed. He wasn't any better during that season, which nearly ended in disaster. Luckily we stayed up and Howard was relieved of his job during the close season.

So very sad seeing Howard in that position, he should have been well better looked after by the people who ran Everton FC at the time.

There's few perfect analogies given the rampant loyalty/powers-of-endurance of Everton fans in the mad, mad world of football these days. However, I suggest Kenwright should be seen as the owner of a middle-ranking restaurant who employed for years a head chef of little distinction to keep the guzzlers happy with bog standard ingredients.

Forced to find another bog standard chef he did just that, until customers started leaving.

Then he sold the gaff to some monied pillock who kept him on with a wedge big enough to afford the very best ingredients, whilst sacking the useless chef.

Kenwright then decided to spend ten times as much on ingredients no better than those he'd given to his first bog-standard chef, but patrons did indeed return, expecting top meals. They were all disappointed, at least.

Soon the absentee owner realised his restaurant was going bankrupt so he stopped giving Kenwright any money at all for even bog-standard ingredients, whilst still demanding the place didn't lose customers.

A top tapas chef was employed whilst the restaurant had to be closed for other reasons. He did okay but knew that actual customers would not be impressed unless he was provided with way better ingredients. Told it wasn't going to happen, he left and moved to an actual top restaurant, where he once again achieved the success on which he'd established his world-acclaimed (Darren excepted of course) reputation.

Meanwhile Kenwright employed and daily governs a bright commi-chef of no reputation but continues to give him even sparser ingredients than ever before whilst still imploring him for improvement in terms of customer satisfaction.

Still, those affording Kenwright any type of support are still seemingly happy to cough-up 5 star prices for bog-standard fare just as long as they can repeatedly slaughter the guy in the kitchen, not those in the office/s from where he's being compromised in his profession.

Weird!

Someday soon, we'll have our Everton back.

The World Cup is over and we play Wolves in a week. I'm off again.

Dave, if the media and others knew, the club must have known.

Not only did they not protect him, they hung him out to dry and nearly ruined his legacy.

The curious thing is that the Notts County chairman fired Kendall and publicly blamed it on his drinking on the job. But subsequently, he went to Sheffield Utd for 2 years, saving them from relegation and then getting to the playoff finals.

I wonder if for a time he had the drinking under control and then had a relapse? Or if someone he managed by luck and support staff to seem functional at Sheffield Utd?

Obviously it was destined to fail at Everton the third time around. I do find it extraordinary the radio station anticipated comments about his drinking. What were the club thinking?

If I remember, the Blades were opening a new stand that evening.

It wasn't entirely noisy or vocal but, being sat with a Blades fan and friend amongst the home supporters, there were muted chants of "drunk, bald bastard, you're just a etc"

Sad to see him put in the position Everton put him in. Leadership is often about judgement. That was poor judgement and nearly tainted his legacy.

Fortunately he still stands proudly on Goodison Road, remembered by generations. Some who never saw him play or manage in his prime. Remembered for his achievements rather than the club's failings.

Someone told me we can't, but I hope we can take that statue and Dixie to BMD.

Or do we leave them where they belong?

I'm emotionally torn. What a dilemma.

I say we bring the statues but leave the other monument: Kenwright, for when the bulldozers roll in. Knowing him though some future archaeologist will find him and he will return like The Curse of the Mummy.

"Isn't it funny, 9,400 Scousers going to an Everton away game, roughly slightly more than 50% of the total number of RS Scousers that have a season ticket at Anfield with a Liverpool postcode… 5,832 to be exact."

Hi Rob - If 9,400 scousers go to the away game and RS scouser season tickets at Anfield = 5,832, that's 62% ie 12% more than 50%.

You think I'm a smart arse don't you - I am (wink), just being pedantic.

And I have no doubt we would have sold more had they been made available.

Anyone who says Everton are not a big club, don't say that to the supporters.

And this in challenging times. Imagine when we hit the genuine good times.

On the postcode discussion, we should rightly be proud of our large local and regional fan base. Especially after the drought of the past several decades. Anywhere else in the country (eg, London), we'd have lost support to Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and even them.

Not only do we keep coming for more, the young supporters are there, week-in, & week-out, waiting for their moment. They are unbelievable.

But we should also acknowledge those who travel. The home game that is an away day out. The West Country Blues for example. And no doubt countless others from different parts of the country. Those as far away as Australia and New Zealand who get up at ridiculous times of the morning to follow.

The club has deep roots in the city and its community. Be we are all connected and committed to Everton. The club and players could take a leaf out of the supporters' book. They should travel back on the supporters' coaches and trains with us after a miserable night in Bournemouth.

Singing, "We shall not be moved – EV-ER-TON!"

The People's Front of Judea in contest with the Judean People's Front. Locking horns with each other, cynical of the others' intent, but on the same side and wanting the same outcome!!

No to divide and conquer by the Romans. Once we're in that or any other stadium, we unite.

Out of interest, I looked up how many they are likely to be taking to Newcastle tonight for the Carabao Cup game. I guess they asked for the minimum ticket allocation possible, due to segregation issues etc, and they were allocated the magnificent total of 1,079 tickets, and from what I can see, they are still on general sale.

Now I know their fans have a lot further to travel to Newcastle than we did to Bournemouth, but they're not making the same journey twice in four days. Plus we sold out both fixtures at Bournemouth last month, while they are yet to sell out for Newcastle.

So Bournemouth fans… ”Your Support really is fucking shit”.

Rant over!!

I and a bunch of mates followed us all over the country in our dark days of Bingham, Walker and others. Football is about winning and losing, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

What would an apology achieve? Stop being childish and suck it up, we're shite at present and that's the way it is.

Fuck me... what's next, suing the club for poor performance???

I've heard our supporters try to break out into it once or twice, but it's not common. Just don't! Sing and chant about Everton.

It's closely followed by the classic "You're Fucking Shit!" Another London masterpiece.

So you don't think that after travelling over 1,100 miles in 4 days, and getting turned over twice by Bournemouth, doesn't warrant some kind of apology from the club?

I for one, having only missed a handful of games in the last 20 years, can certainly take the heat, but after two very poor performances like those two at Bournemouth, I feel some kind of apology should have been given by the club to the fans who made both journeys down there.

Only last March, Preston offered their fans an apology and a full refund after a shit midweek performance away at Luton, so I think it's time clubs, not just ours, started showing a bit more respect to their fans, and not just taking them for granted.

Preston offer to refund fans after a 4-0 defeat at Luton that Lilywhites boss Lowe 'didn't see coming'

KENWRIGHT OUT!

That Kendall MkIII spell was traumatic, to say the least. The big tragedy for me was what I saw as the needless and criminal departure of Gary Speed for reasons unspecified, despite a myriad of rumours.

Speed hinted at some dark secret which he could not reveal for fear of hurting the club, telling the Liverpool Echo: "You know why I'm leaving, but I can't explain myself publicly because it would damage the good name of Everton Football Club and I'm not prepared to do that."

I think most speculation at the time was that he just could not get on with Kendall drinking, and that he considered it utterly unprofessional. But was this ever confirmed? The shroud of secrecy hinted at by you and Dave @83 is typical Everton though.

I remember at the time after the West Ham (Speed wasn't in the squad) Howard sort of threw him under the bus with these post match remarks:

''I'm disappointed in the way it happened,'' Kendall said. ''We were very determined to hang on to the player but he was equally determined to move on and he elected to do certain things to try to escalate the deal.

''Maybe it is something I have got to look at. I may not be able to prise away quality players from other clubs so I may have to come at them through their representatives, tell them to put in written transfer requests and tell them not to turn up and play for their clubs.

''I don't want to get into a row. I am just looking at the events of the past few weeks, which have ended in a player under contract getting his wish to move to another club.

''I would certainly not go about my business like that.''

As for Speed, he never publicly elaborated but his friend and biographer said:

"“Speedo stopped short of graphically stating his reasons for cutting short his stay at the club he had supported from the terraces. All I could push him on was revealing that the ‘manager’s physical state’ wasn’t the best and, as a professional ­footballer, he couldn’t accept that."

When Gary Speed passed away, Howard had a weekly article in the Liverpool Echo. In that week's page, Howard offered a three- or four-line tribute to Gary at the very bottom of his column.

To me, it would have been better if he had said nothing.

Nothing good can come from opening old wounds. I suspect that is the reason Dave A is taking a diplomatic approach.