Everton fan guilty of shouting anti-Semitic abuse at Spurs supporters

You'd have had to arrest half of the Street end. We wouldn't have been alone in that.

So things are changing at a rapid rate.

If you happen to have a public facing job in this country, it is more than likely you will be sworn at or threatened with violence at some point in your employment, even if that employment is to help the very people who are often the perpetrators of this type of unwanted behaviour. If we can't as a society prevent that from happening on an all too regular basis, what chance is there of preventing ignorant louts acting like the man in the main story.

Anybody found guilty of anti-Semitic abuse and making hissing sounds, should be taken to the nearest military camp and experience a CS gas training exercise, that might make them think twice about their words and actions in the future.

On a serious note, its appalling behaviour.

Racism, violence and intimidation lie incognito secretly waiting for an opportunity to pop up and say "here's Jonny" - they've never gone away and never will do..

I still remember a person I didn't know but used to stand next to in the Gwladys Street. He used to kick off with the Everton are white chants, wore a badge on his coat with that slogan and used to get on the Amberline coach at Widnes for the away games.

Another dedicated Evertonian I knew and travelled with on many occasions, running on the pitch to throw his season ticket on the Goodison turf when we signed Amokachi.

Personally I never got involved.

There is and never has been a place for it. Race, religion, whatever, it's all about the football. Wherever you come from, whoever you are.

I can't believe in 2023 that a 46 year old can behave like that. I wouldn't excuse a teenager for that and grab them around the collar, let alone and adult and probably a father.

Mike

I think it's football fans doing what football fans do, I don't see it as football fans or English football culture being antisemitic per se. They chant vile things, but it's to enrage, I don't think there is any real animus behind it (from my view ten steps back)

It’s a crazy upside down world, and sometimes football might be a person’s only escape.

Sometimes it’s nasty, but most of the time it’s just harmless banter, IMO, but little by little, character is slowly getting eradicated from humanity, and humans are becoming more robotic, every single year.

Asking people to stop chanting extremely horrible chants or asking them to stop making noises that offend many people, that's the very least a civilised society should ask. Freedom of expression doesn't need to abuse others in order to make a point or have a 'bit of banter'.

We could get offended with the "you Scouse bastards", "going home to a shithole" chants and to cap it off the "we pay your benefits" chants we are regularly subject to.

There is obviously a line that shouldn't be crossed, but without wanting to dismiss any out of order behaviour, a bit like coming on here, you have to accept you're at a football match and the vast majority of those in attendance are well behaved.

Those who step over the line will get dealt with. Often by those around them before the stewards or police get to them.

I was 14 Eddie!! You've got 10 years on me.

If you're in any doubt, the law has fixed it for you - racism and homophobia are hate speech; they attack people's own identity and sense of self. Chants about poverty and obesity are not – they are just moronic low-grade shite.

Sadly, I have witnessed this stuff far, far more than I've ever seen anyone being called out for it. History proves Evertonians, and all football fans, will not police themselves.

100 percent with you, we must never forget what happened to those people.

Why is that more offensive than if an opposition supporter uses that word. Is it the word that’s offensive? I remember a song from my childhood called ‘My Yiddisher Momma’, is that consigned to the scrap heap now?

Likewise if a black person use the ‘N’ word is it ok? Or is it the word that is offensive? The N word is used regularly by rappers so if the rapper is white can he sing the same song as a black rapper or not? The waters getting muddier by the minute. I’m confused.

Spurs fans are basically talking shit when they say they are "reclaiming the word" unless they themselves are Jewish. And the vast, vast majority of Spurs fans are not Jewish.

It's a sign of ridiculous hypocrisy that Spurs aren't fined and threated with playing behind closed doors every time their fans sing that song.

I can't make it for our home game against Spurs but, if you hear them singing Yid Army, can I ask you to report it to both clubs as a racial slur please? They might ignore it, but as fans we shouldn't let that stop us highlighting how offensive it is until action is taken against the Spurs fans,

I have also sat in the away end at White Hart Lane and cringed as many so-called Evertonians hissed, in the full knowledge it was an undetectable crime hidden by sheer numbers. I seem to remember that game where the Yak bust his achilles was a bad night for it. I think it was the same game where a banner some fella had brought in was confiscated by their stewards for remarking on the fact that Sammy Lee drinks his own urine. Bad taste banter, maybe - but racist or homophobic it was not.

On the 'Yid' stuff, it's really not that hard. It's wrong, of course, and some Spurs fans are 'confused' just because they've always done it and/or don't want to change. Doesn't really matter if they're Jewish or not - (some) Spurs fans don't get to dictate or define what's racist language that's been used offensively towards an entire people. It's one thing that David Baddiel is good on – he did a whole thing about the term and its use at Spurs - if you're that bothered or really that confused then you'd do well to look it up.

The recipients often try to control the narrative – like Spurs fans (most of whom aren't actually Jewish from my experience) or reclaim a word which is considered offensive. The latter takes us into Spike Lee v Quentin Tarantino territory.

The hissing stuff is another level but has been going on for years, especially when Chelsea face Spurs. It is, as many have said, utterly sick and twisted.

Unfortunately, there are football "fans" who do horrible things which are incomprehensible. Man Urd fans baiting Liverpool about 1989 and our loveable neighbours doing airplane impressions...

I suspect the football ground enables keyboard warriors their only place to express their abhorrent views which they'd be too scared to do on the street or in the pub. The mob mentality feeds into that.

Yes there is banter, but there are boundaries.

On the self-policing thing, it does happen. Sometimes I think it is a bit unnecessary as supporters will report fans to stewards just because they're in the wrong end to get them ejected.

I had a few stern words with a couple of Palace fans when I inadvertently got diverted into the lower Bullens in the away section last season. They stepped over a line and were out of order, so I told them so.

I could have put myself in a situation, but we have principles. They were shocked but we all ended up friends by the end.

The stewards, who had put me there instead of the Upper Bullens gave me a pat on the back and told them to get back to their seats. And me as well obviously.

Don't know why though, maybe the area of London they originated in?

I suppose you could compare it to traditionally Everton's following being predominantly Irish Catholics from the north of the city.

Tottenham have a history of owners and board members who were Jewish.

Obviously times change as have the demographics of their support, but it's a historical thing.

And yes again Eric. Yiddish is a language. It's closely related to German. In fact, even though my German is rusty these days, if you speak German, you can pick out the odd word or sentence.

Anyway, my point being, we seem to copy everything (good and bad) these days. What happened to being original or unique? Just a bunch of ignorant sheeple who can’t think for themselves and find humour in other people’s misfortunes. Pathetic.

Remember Di Canio's "salute" to the Lazio supporters?

There is history in that region and I experienced first hand it when I lived in the Lazio state. Rome is and enclave city region surrounded by.Lazio.

The background is that it was marshland that was reclaimed by a project instigated by Mussolini. The 3 main towns of Pomezia, Aprilla and Latina (where I lived) emerged as a result of that project.

And although I left in 2002, in my experience, there was still a lot of admiration for Mussolini for developing the area, particularly with the Lazio supporters.

I'm off on a tangent, but having lived there and gone to watch both teams at the Olympico on a few occasions, I much preferred the Roma supporters. Interestingly, they tended to be predominantly from the city. The Lazio ones tended to be from the surrounding areas, including where I lived, which was a bit of a Lazio hotbed.

I take comfort from the fact that what happened to the Jewish people during WW2, will never happen again, they will simply turn anyone who tries into glass.

You are certainly a well travelled and interesting man.

Coincidentally while reading this thread I'm actually wearing a shirt advertising the manufacturer of xyclon B.

Sadly, it did happen again in the former Yugoslavia, and I saw that first hand too in Bosnia.

It is going on all around the world. Try Afghanistan, which we have washed our hands of.

I think the majority of us here only realise it when it's on our doorstep.

Putin's campaign in the Ukraine is possibly the closest we've come to what happened in WW2.

I love how we can have these discussions on an Everton website.

‘Fritz Haber, was the Jewish chemist whose scientific research led to the invention of Zyklon B, the cyanide-based pesticide used in death camps'.

If only he had known where his research would end up.

If you saw it first hand in Bosnia then that certainly qualifies as an experience, though not a pleasant one I am sure.

Yes Afghanistan is a disaster, so many gave their lives, but the politicians always have the final say, to their eternal shame.

Ukraine has to be a red line for the West; Putin must be stopped, whatever the risk. I recently heard that Putin was warned by NATO that if he deployed a single tactical battlefield nuclear device in Ukraine, then NATO would destroy all Russian units in Ukraine, scary thought.

It takes my mind off Everton, lol. Whenever I think that Everton are finished, I read your posts and take comfort from your never-say-die attitude!

The antecedence of the word is not really what's important, is it? It became a racial epithet intended to offend a race of people, and is rightly treated as such. It's not that confusing or new.

Yiddish is indeed a language, and one spoken by my late grandmother. But if anyone called her, or me, a 'yid', they would find themselves in a world of pain.

Pakistan is a country, but I hope you would never call someone a Paki?

Krauts and Frogs. Some Germans refer to us in the UK as Insel Affe (Island Monkeys).

We are stereotyped all over the country who apparently pay our benefits.

There is obviously no room for racism or abuse.

I don't get offended when someone calls me a Scouser or a Catholic. Proud of both.

I guess the term 'Yid' has become derogatory. Like being called a Fenian or Taig.

This politically correct stuff is going way over the top, it's when they are used in a derogatory context that they can become objectionable.

I don't condone it but there are many who get swept up in the hysteria, who – in the cold light of day – would never behave or have views like that. Mob mentality...

'I take comfort from the fact that what happened to the Jewish people during WW2, will never happen again, they will simply turn anyone who tries into glass.'

Unfortunately humans don't learn and some just don't want too. There are many cases of attempted genocide which have happened after WW2.

Rwanda, Bosnia, Congo (Hutus), Darfur, Cambodia, Rohingya to name but a few. We even have the state of Israel and their newly elected right-wing government containing a minister calling for the wiping out of Palestinians!

ps: Just ready Danny's post (47) sorry to repeat and go on!

UTFT.

When I sing "And we'll hang those Kopites, one by one, on the banks of the Royal Mblue Mersey", I don't really mean my sister-in-law or my late father-in-law or my late uncles and grandad or most of my cousins.

Mind yo,u I probably would have hung Emlyn Hughes, Jimmy Case and John Aldridge.

Those defending the banter that might include that term should state clearly if they are okay with either escalation of negative banter or the victims should just understand and take it. Or is there some other dynamic to that?

On the subject of Israel. I spent a few months there in my backpacking days in the '80s. Most of the people who lived and worked on Kibbutz Dvir (down in the Negev Desert) were from broken Jewish backgrounds in South America. We played footy and basketball everyday with the lads and also got on great with the beautiful girls. It really felt like I was in Europe rather than the Middle East.

When asking about them being in the army, they clammed up and said it was just a job they had to do. Some of the Israelis would even take us to Bedouin parties because they lived nearby and traded with them.

These Israelis were immigrants and they had no dislike for the Palestinians but knew their job was to remove them from their homes and establish a greater Israel. Once they are in the army, they never fully leave and, as a country, they cannot afford to make peace. The Palestinians in return truly hate the Israelis for what they have done to them and it's completely understandable.

I really loved the people we met there and kept in touch for many years but my thoughts are always with those poor Palestinian people who have been forced out of their homeland.

I met a scouse lad over here in Australia a few years ago who had family that were Jewish and they were hounded out of Liverpool because of their religion. They had not long escaped from the tragedy unfolding in Europe during the war too so how bad must that have been?

Living in Australia is beautiful but there's plenty of racial slurs thrown around on a daily basis here with “fakkin' Pommie barsted” being one of favorites… but luckily, mostly said in jest.

Greatest keeper and one of our best midfielders as well as a 40-goal season striker doesn't make them any more a political judge than you or I, Brian.

Good debate and kept sensible despite differences of views, but it will be good to get back to the football.

Andrew #48, yes I think the origin of the word is important. Remember the "bollocks" obscenity case of the Sex Pistols that was thrown out because 'bollocks' is not an obscenity and could be traced back to monks' writings centuries ago?

Also to be a logic mom, you don't really get to shade one inappropriate term with etymological justifixation and then claim contextual criticism of another. Everyone gets back from the line or there is no line and stop talking about one. It’s one or the other. I could make a non-binary anti-CIS joke to light things up but I will respectfully refrain.

I got an idea, let’s talk about football.

Dave Abrahams, that's brilliant. Did the fella get off the bus in the right place? I have to know.

I've got my bus routes wrong in the past apart from the 82C and 81D given I'm an Uber person these days. The 19 runs along Country Round right? I used to be a proper bus geek bus I'm out of touch these days.

Less than 72 hours to go.

No Danny the 19 doesn’t go along County Road, it comes up from town through London Road up to Everton Road then along Breckfield Road right down past Anfield Road on to Stanley Park then past Goodison Park and on to Walton Hall Avenue where I make my departure and home.

I love that bus story.

Maybe I'm thinking the 20?

I'm in serious danger of failing my bus exams!

Yes the Nos 20 and 21 do go along County Road but the No 19 has always gone the same way as it does today – and when the 19 was a tramcar, remember them, Danny?

Bleedin' freezing and wet in the winter until we got The Green Goddesses. Ah, pure luxury! As Mr McMillan said, “You've never had it so good!” Was he Boris Johnson's godfather?

The best bus was the 101 Vauxhall circular. Just stopped whatever your house was.

My mam went to town one day from Salisbury Street to the gyratory. She bought a frozen chicken from Marks in town.
When she got home, there was no chicken in her bag!

She went outside and waited for the bus to come back and stopped it. When she went on she asked everyone if they'd seen a chicken. They all looked around until someone spotted it under a seat!

“Here it is, Betty!”

Mam went off happy and the bus went on into town.

I could tell loads of stories about singing on buses and buses making detours to drop people at homes well off track cos the singing got the bus up.

Could only happen in Liverpool!

Yes, that was a killer when the 101 was taken out of circulation, the “happy bus”.

What about the last bus to Dodge City (Kirkby) on a Saturday night, singing, dancing in the aisles, the conductor stopping the bus to let people off to have a “hit and a miss” before carrying on the journey… What a trip, best part of the night!!

The chicken story is the type of thing my mother would have done John.

Great recollections. Those type of memories are the best.

One day, my mam was full of praise for firemen? She's on a Number 3 going along Scottie, the whole bus singing, mind this is early afternoon and everyone sober.

The bus stops and the driver bails out. The bus is still singing.
Next thing, the firemen are on, and my mam is over a shoulder and off… The bloody bus was on fire!

Nobody but the driver knew!!

A million stories.

More often than not, I turn the situation around and end up being friendly with the offenders.

You know me.

It’s hilarious to see some of the Irish soccer clubs’ fans replicating what they see in the premier league as if it’s something they should do because the English do it. They even sing the same stupid songs in English accents and turn to celebrate their team scoring by giving the other fans the finger. Fascinating

“They think it's all over” was Kenneth Wolstenholme (?) — I couldn't think of his name at the time and most probably spelt it wrong now!!

To be fair to Marce,l though, he should know because money definitely made him lazy – unless he just wasn't up to the job and never had enough experience of English football.

Conveniently airbrushed from history and apparently we are bitter if we mention it.

They may be cousins, but they boil my blue blood. Especially the ones down here in West London who I begrudgingly have to educate on the team they allegedly support and follow. All their lives apparently. Fuck off.

Sorry. Trip to the swear jar.

I despise them. You've started me now.

There were two people in the Big Brother house of a certain race. All the time, they kept calling each other the n-word, night after night.

"Alright nigger", where the other would reply back "Yeah, nigger."

Now that was acceptable as they were a certain race. A week later, Jade goody let it slip out, probably with constantly hearing them say it to each other, and as soon as she said it, both the other two reported it and Jade got booted out of Big Brother for using the same word as they did to each other.

Fast forward and a certain race called Jade Goody's mum a piece of white trash. No action whatsoever, but if it was said in another way, with another colour opposite to white said, they would have been up in arms and no doubt action taken.

And there lies the problem, the only people who cannot be racially abused are white people, and that is acceptable in today's world.

I think this typifies the craziness of the world:

Lacey Lou and Georgie Bee are two of a new vanguard of female drag artists – and have been accused of 'cultural appropriation' by male drag queens who have made their careers by dressing up as women.

The pair are among a number of women working as drag queens who are, in fact, women, reports The Telegraph.

But there has been a backlash against this new variety of live performer. Male drag artists cite women like Lacey Lou and Georgie Bee as purveyors of 'cultural appropriation'.

I do not use the N-word, I am not racist, but if it is such a bad word, and it is, then those using it themselves as a way of communicating within their own race should also be accountable for using the word.

UK-based travel agencies offer stag weekends in Amsterdam, including canal boat cruises with unlimited booze, "steak and strip" nights and red light district pub crawls.

For years people have complained of drunken Brits urinating in public, throwing up in canals, stripping off and engaging in drunken brawls.

This is not a new phenomenon. Almost a decade ago, Amsterdam's then mayor invited his London counterpart Boris Johnson, who had described the city as "sleazy", to see for himself what Brits got up to.

"They don't wear a coat as they slalom through the red light district… they sing 'You'll never walk alone'. They are dressed as rabbits or priests and sometimes they are not dressed at all. I'd love to invite him to witness it,"