Report: MSP Sports Capital are already involved at Everton

05/06/2023 160comments  |  Jump to last

According to The Athletic, the New York-based investment firm that is in negotiations with Farhad Moshiri over a 25% stake in the club has begun providing funds to Everton in the form of an interim loan secured by online stockbroker and Toffees fan Andy Bell.

Matt Slater reports that MSP Sports Capital are close to a deal that would see them take a minority stake in the club via a limited partnership that would furnish Moshiri with around £100m in loans that can be converted into shares at a later date.

In the meantime, though, as recently reported by The Mail On Sunday, Bell has brokered a £40m bridging loan while MSP hammer out the finer details of their proposed investment in Everton that could ultimately reduce Moshiri's holdings to below 50%. 

There is scope to increase MSP's loan commitment to £150m to cover more of the shortfall in funding for the Everton Stadium, which is now expected to cost £760m, £260m more than originally claimed, and that would give them a greater stake in the Blues.

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Additionally, MSP would be entitled to two seats on the Board which would bring much-needed change to the executive tier at Everton amid speculation that Chairman Bill Kenwright and CEO Denise Barrett-Baxendale could step down from their respective roles this year.

There has been talk that Bell, the founder of Blythe Capital, and property developer George Downing could be the two businessmen put forward by MSP to join the Board, although the loan Bell has already brokered could represent a conflict of interest.

Once the deal with MSP Sports Capital is concluded, Moshiri is said to be confident he can raise the remaining funds to complete the stadium through a construction loan arranged by JPMorgan and MUFG which he has been unable to get over the line to date due to Everton's poor financial performance in recent years. MSP would be seen as more reliable guarantors of the loans.

Quotes sourced from The Athletic [£]

Reader Comments (160)

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Alan Johnson
1 Posted 05/06/2023 at 22:53:44
Hmm... Well, things seem to be fitting into shape as The Esk said. Bring it on. Sooner the better. See the back of Chairman Bill.
Will Mabon
2 Posted 05/06/2023 at 22:54:36
Who knows what form this could take when it all plays out. Loans before the deal? Not exactly a geometric package. Hope it doesn't add further complications.
Barry Rathbone
3 Posted 05/06/2023 at 22:54:38
This stadium caper sounds so desperate.
Dave Lynch
4 Posted 05/06/2023 at 23:03:24
The stadium was always going to be a millstone around our neck whilst the current clowns were running the circus.

Too many players on big wages, no proper funding strategy, piss poor marketing of the club and poor sponsorship deals were all contributing factors.

Colin Glassar
5 Posted 05/06/2023 at 23:08:50
So Bill and Denise “could step down from their roles this year”?

When? This week? Next week? December?

They need to go now before they do any more damage.

Alan Johnson
6 Posted 05/06/2023 at 23:15:26
Colin #5.

I think they've already gone, mate.

Hence the silence.

Paul Kossoff
7 Posted 05/06/2023 at 23:49:09
It's never cut and dried with us, is it? NUFC were in a worse position than us last season, get bought out by a multi-trillion dollars-worth country. And we get deeper in debt by taking out multi-million pound loans.

Seems we are getting deeper in debt and more in shit street. Are these loans for the stadium or team? Why would this MSP loan money to a company that they are supposedly Interested in buying?

Mr Esk, answers please. Springs to mind the quote from Lister on red dwarf, a highly advanced alien is trying to catch them and Lister says "And here we are with our red alert bulb." That's Everton all over.

Dale Self
8 Posted 05/06/2023 at 23:50:56
Well then, this looks to be proceeding nicely. Funding for stadium converts to larger share of club, come on overruns – kidding.

It does look like enough will fall into place before the start of the season which is good. We aren't going to be given all the details and this certainly details things in the proper direction. I'm calling it, time to celebrate this. Details later – celebration now

Joe Corgan
9 Posted 05/06/2023 at 23:51:29
Well I, like many Evertonians, have been waiting for some news in the media regarding the club's ownership structure. and here it is. Except I'm none the wiser.

It's still unclear what MSP's level of involvement with Everton will be, whether it's a minority investment or something more substantial. Whether Moshiri is essentially 'selling up,' whether Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale et al are out of the door...

The clock is already ticking its way towards the new season. Signings simply have to happen, one way or the other. Thelwell and Dacha need clarity on the brief for next season.

Call me impatient, but these things need to hammered out quickly. Whatever the outcome, the sporting staff and the fans need to know what, if anything, is happening lest we face another season like the last.

Pete Clarke
10 Posted 05/06/2023 at 00:08:55
It looks like Moshiri has been driven down this path because he would no longer be putting money into the club whilst Kenwright was a chairman and making him richer as a shareholder. The clause that they have together seems iron clad and can only be broken by new owners / investors hence where we are right now.

Whatever it is seems typically messy and we are left with crossed fingers again that it works out well.
Eric Myles
11 Posted 06/06/2023 at 00:10:26
Mike Gaynes
12 Posted 05/06/2023 at 00:12:41
Obviously I'm delighted, as I've been boosting MSP all along, and if this report is true it's good to know that MSP is working in close cooperation with Blythe on the loan packet.

I would be surprised, however, if MSP doesn't place at least one principal directly on the Board, rather than just a proxy in the form of Bell and/or Downing. This would be MSP's biggest deal ever by far, and I would expect either Jeff Moorad himself or one of his lieutenants to personally fill a seat on the Board.

Incidentally, one of MSP's partners is Arne Rees, who was previously the chief of business development at both Uefa and ESPN. He's now chairman of Bundesliga Americas. Seems like he'd make a terrific board member for us.

Mark Andersson
13 Posted 06/06/2023 at 00:21:11
Great news... IS IT ???
Ian Pilkington
14 Posted 06/06/2023 at 00:29:17

I hope you are correct, but worryingly will MSP have the resources to strengthen the playing squad?

Jamie Crowley
15 Posted 06/06/2023 at 00:57:30
Dale @8 -

Funding converts to larger share holdings, "come on overruns".

Laughed out loud at that one. Hilarious. I now find myself hoping the stadium cost balloons to a cool billion.

Hilarious Dale well played m'man. Brought a genuine laugh out of me.

Lester Yip
16 Posted 06/06/2023 at 03:31:46
To me, it seems like MSP is a bit unsure of the future but willing to take a small bite first (by provide a loan secured against the stadium).

So if we got relegated next season and financial got a big hit (ie, shares value plummeted), their investment (secured loan value) remains. If things turn good, they can convert to shares. A good deal for MSP.

Eric Myles
17 Posted 06/06/2023 at 03:35:48
So the loan is directly to the stadium holding company, not to the Club and Moshiri will still maintain control of the Club.

But who will be his proxy on the board if Kenwright has gone?

Paul Kernot
18 Posted 06/06/2023 at 05:51:35
I watched a really interesting interview on Sky Sport this morning with Brighton CEO Paul Barber.

As you'd expect, they pumped him with questions about their structure, recruitment plan for both players and head coaches and sales (of players) plus the specifics of the manager's role.

His responses were concise, intelligent and detailed in terms of short-, mid- & long-term plans for each of the above areas.

Needless to say, I shook my head throughout.

Eddie Dunn
19 Posted 06/06/2023 at 07:02:24

But why didn't he just write a 120-point plan of action, like wot Denise did?

Alan McGuffog
20 Posted 06/06/2023 at 07:22:36
Paul did he mention the advice he received from EFC. You know, along the lines of.." now what would Everton do ?"
Mark Andersson
21 Posted 06/06/2023 at 07:40:33
Haha last 3 posts brilliant.
Jerome Shields
22 Posted 06/06/2023 at 08:23:04
Eric #17

I thought that funding was in place for the Stadium and that funding and management are needed on the football side. But it appears that, as you say, for the stadium holding company.

Is it that the Holding company is Everton FC Ltd and the Stadium Development Company is seperate? Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale sit on the boards of both companies. It could be by that they are appointed to the Stadium Company, with representation in the Everton FC Club Board.

Good News, but only if Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale are gone. The Financial Director should be gone as well.

Jerome Shields
23 Posted 06/06/2023 at 08:36:13
Eric #17

Is Grant Ingles staying or Sharp to replaced?

Looking at the present Board, I wondered how anyone thought that was ever going to work.

Gary Brown
24 Posted 06/06/2023 at 08:46:18
I don’t see any reason DBB couldn’t go back to community champion. Peoples club / peoples champion gave us an off field identity, and in a world of woke (don’t start politics crap) it’s one we can build on. It’s one we should build on.

However, I want a ruthless CEO who’s going to have the football side running in a way that’ll make Brighton blush and Levi seem soft. I also want chairman Bill to be removed and scrubbed from our history, starting with pic at goodison timeline. He’s too much of a snake to have anywhere near. His removal should be the minimum for path to any investment or change.

Mark Ryan
25 Posted 06/06/2023 at 08:52:20
How do we hold up a banner asking " SACK THE BOARD" if MSP get 2 seats on it.
This sounds like a perfect scenario for our illustrious leaders Blue Bill, DBB, Sharp etc to remain in post.
What do we do next season, hold up banners saying " Down with the board except the 2 new ones, you can stay for a bit"
This sounds like a fudge of a deal.
Kevin Edward
26 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:03:50
This is good news, if true then there’s going to be a new ownership structure, but one or the other will have control. So the Board is sure to change as suggested hence the tumbleweed from the current clowns. Probably the current crew are just waiting to get their pay-offs for the great job they have done. Can’t wait to see a formal announcement from one of the parties involved.
Colin Glassar
28 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:20:06
Mark, what about, “sack the boa”? Then we can keep the last two letter for future use if the two newbies turn out to be as crap as the present incumbents.

Just make this announcement bloody official so I can see the three of them taking the wake of shame.

Simon Crosbie
29 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:21:21
On another note, I am totally gutted that we were not in a position to get Ange Postecoglou as manager. He is on an upward trajectory.

If ever there was a manager to turn this club around it is him. Five trophies out of six at Celtic, and they laughed at his name when he arrived.

The most significant sign of decline at this club is that we are falling into the pattern of getting managers and players that are moving sideways from clubs that are either relegated or struggling.

It is the fault of Moshiri, Kenwright and others that we have fallen into the category of strugglers and survivors rather than the aspirational club we used to be. Whether the new investment changes things substantially remains to be seen but the current mould has to be broken.

Postecoglou, would have been the man to turn things around. He will adjust to the Premier League and he will change Spurs for the better without spending a lot of money.

Mark Ryan
30 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:26:06
Colin lol! that'll do. That's made me laugh.
Gerry Quinn
31 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:31:12

Postecoglou has repeated what all Celtic managers have done before him in a crappy totally one-sided football league!

Rodgers, Deila, Lennon, Mowbray, Strachan before him... all won championships – it is a joke.

Sorry, even Gerrard succeeded in that league with Rangers... in fact, last time someone else won it was Aberdeen in 1985!

Pat Kelly
32 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:32:56
Looks like the much needed stadium funding is underway.

Seems MSP have provided an initial loan pending clarification of the investigation of Moshiri? – the balance of the £100M is being held back for some reason.

Whether there'll be any other funds for transfers remains to be seen. This could well depend on selling first. But, if Maupay has to go, we'll have to grin and bear it.

Brent Stephens
33 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:35:14
Colin #28 – "sack the boa"…

Word association:

Boa constrictor.
Snake in the Grass.
Sack Bill.

Pete Clarke
34 Posted 06/06/2023 at 09:45:40

I like the idea of an up and coming manager but we are no longer seen as the sleeping giant anymore so anyone on an upward trajectory will not even consider us.

There's a good chance he'll be out of work in six months because it's a different level in the Premier League.

Aussie media also talking a lot of crap in bigging Spurs up and saying he's the only manager to leave Scotland and get a top job in years. I'm sure Villa and Leicester would have something to say about that given that Spurs have won fuck-all forever.

Let's just hope we get this MSP deal sorted out soon and get back on track to becoming a proper football club ourselves. Then we may get the up-and-coming managers and players looking at us again.

Brian Harrison
35 Posted 06/06/2023 at 10:06:49
I saw clips of Conor Coady being on Radio 5 Live last night. He said that changes was needed from top to bottom of the club.

During his interview, he kept saying 'we' when mentioning the club, and said how much he enjoyed being at Everton.

Although he didn't mention him by name, he did say that they lost their way and didn't seem to be able to get back on track, obviously referring to the time Lampard was in charge.

For those suggesting a change of manager, that is the very last thing this club need, as for up-and-coming managers like Gerrard, Lampard, Viera – all failed miserably in the Premier League.

Dyche was probably not my first choice but he has proved he was exactly what we needed, a no-nonsense manager with a mantra of minimum requirement is maximum effort.

You will have noticed no dancing on the stands in avoiding relegation, but a clear message we aren't good enough and things have to change. He said Everton escaping relegation was not something to be celebrated.

He took over a side that was demoralised and lacking in having a striker worthy of the name, but somehow managed to get this team over the line.

He completely transformed Doucouré who Lampard had training alone and was on his way to Fulham till Dyche arrived. Like wise with McNeil under Lampard looked out of his depth… yet, under Dyche, he became a very important player for us.

Ajay Gopal
36 Posted 06/06/2023 at 10:27:37
Spot on, Brian. I have been very impressed with Dyche's focus and quiet determination to get the job done.

He didn't give any excuses when things went wrong even though he would have been fully entitled to – getting a key forward player sold (Gordon), not signing anyone in the winter window, injuries to key personnel, etc, etc.

He just rolled up his sleeves and worked hard with the players he had at his disposal. No drama on the sidelines – even when Doucouré lashed in that all-important goal, he took a sip from his water bottle because he knew there was a lot of work still to be done.

Dyche deserves a long stint at the club and some support from the (new?) board to add 1-2 players of genuine quality to get us more competitive next season.

Pete Clarke
37 Posted 06/06/2023 at 10:51:04
Brian. Not sure if you were having a go at my post there but I was not suggesting we change manager at all. Dyche did all that was needed and deserves a crack at getting us up that table and respected again. What we did at Brighton told me there's another side to his game than just battling.

I was actually having a dig at the media over here in Australia for labeling Spurs a big club when, as we all know, they have won nothing for donkey's years whereas Leicester have won the big prize recently and Villa are way ahead of Spurs on the medal list.

Some newsreader even said that Celtic Supporters were hailing Ange as their best manager in 50 years which is just plain daft given that anyone can manage up there.

The Aussies do really love to praise their own but then batter them when they don't perform. I'm hoping England do them in the upcoming Ashes so I can hear the media get stuck into them.

Paul Hewitt
38 Posted 06/06/2023 at 10:51:44
Looks to me like MSP are only funding the stadium. So the board stays.
Dean Cooper
39 Posted 06/06/2023 at 11:18:03
Simon @29:

Postecoglu would've been the right appointment
for Everton post-Ancelotti, when we had some stability, but could not be a worse fit for us currently. Everywhere he has been, he has won, but it has taken time – which we cannot afford unfortunately. If he came to us, we would likely get relegated trying to play the way he would want us to play.

I would be willing to bet that Spurs will be in the bottom third for the first half of next year. But if they give him time and the money to reinvest from any player sales (ie, Kane), he will have them back amongst the Top 4 the following season. I'm not so certain that their board and supporters will be so patient.

Niall McIlhone
40 Posted 06/06/2023 at 11:41:07
I tend to share Mike G's optimism about the MSP investment, and the important point Mike made about this being a significant investment for them in comparison to their previous operations:

I think that the factors leading to lack of success both on and off the field (as summarized by Dave Lynch #4) are quite entrenched as things stand, but this is not just about the new stadium itself: I suspect MSP are looking at the bigger picture, as the redevelopment of the docklands site west of the Pier Head (ie, Liverpool Waters) is set to be a massive, transformative factor in the regeneration of the city.

Once the stadium is patronised, and the infrastructural work is done in the L5 post code area, MSP will start seeing healthy returns on their investment, as the stadium will be sold out for most home games, and available to host other events.

As for the team and our manager, well, I think we all know that we are in for a continuing struggle over the next season. However, I firmly believe Dyche is the man to steer this creaking ship into steady waters. One can only hope he is given free rein to trim the existing (unbalanced) squad and recruit the players he feels he needs to improve standards and consistency on the pitch.

He knows this is his big shot at managing a club of Everton's stature, and he does not appear to me to be the sort of man who will let this opportunity pass him by.

Denis Richardson
41 Posted 06/06/2023 at 11:55:50
Surely all this is good news no? Anyone with professionalism being given a meaningful look and say in how things are run is surely an improvement on whats been going on.

The club needs to be run like a proper business and not a part-time hobby. It's clear Moshiri wants out and that Kenwright needs to go. Hopefully both happen over the summer in some shape or form. The sanctions investigation will hopefully force things to move quickly.

As for the playing side, Dyche is exactly the no-nonsense type we need now in order to stabilise the squad and get us to mid-table mediocrity over the next couple of years. Let's get there first and if he evolves keep him or trade up.

However, as things stand, there's hopefully going to be quite an upheaval at board level so we need some consistency at manager and player level.

We've got next year to stay up too if the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is to avoid debuting in the Championship…

Simon Crosbie
42 Posted 06/06/2023 at 13:30:27
Gerry @31,

I have cut and pasted my comment re Postecoglou and will post it again at the end of the season. Happy to be proven wrong. He has a habit of proving people wrong.

Peter @34,

Wait and see, everywhere he goes the same sentiments keep cropping up... Who is he? What has he done etc... Australia is not a traditional football nation and I think this counts against him.

Dean @39,

His normal turnaround time to win a Championship is two years; at Celtic, it was one year. Totally agree about him being the post-Ancelotti manager. How he would have coped with the current board is another matter.

Eric Myles
43 Posted 06/06/2023 at 13:50:32
Jerome #22 & #23,

Looking at the Echo report and trying to get my head around the maths, Moshiri cannot give up more than 50% of his shareholding and still maintain control of the Club unless he has the proxy of Chairman Bill, or Chairman Bill had Moshiri's proxy!

The other boas don't hold shares although it used to be a requirement to be a board member.

Colin Malone
44 Posted 06/06/2023 at 14:03:46
Be careful what you wish for.

As someone replied on another thread, Usmanov is still involved behind the scenes, keeping control of the club under MSP's name.

Personally, I hope so. If this was Moshiri's choice, I would be very, very scared. Me thinks B&M would be an accepted buyer, as long as Kenwright and Co went.

Whoever comes in, the AGMs have to restart.

Jerome Shields
45 Posted 06/06/2023 at 14:23:49
Eric #43,

Thank you for pointing that out. I know where you are coming from regarding the Chairman's position. MSP will also be fully aware of the maths and the Chairman position in relation to control.

I suspect MSP involvement will be a secured loan via suitable share mechanisms. This will change over time with representation, but won't be the quick fix expected by many. It will be interesting to see how it all boils down.

Being honest, any Company I was involved in, I always sought professional advice regarding shares and voting rights, never being confident or unwise enough to assume anything.

This Everton arrangement with MSP is going to be complicated and beyond most of us. But I think we are all about to get an education from every angle on ToffeeWeb.

Tony Abrahams
46 Posted 06/06/2023 at 14:33:31
I share your optimism for the city as a whole, Niall @40, and think that this regeneration scheme is going to be absolutely massive over a period of time.

We are going to have to go through a lot of pain, because of our financial situation, but at least we are going to be skint with a brand new stadium, in an up-and-coming city, on an iconic waterfront, so I'm hoping this gives us a real chance to finally move forward in the longer term.

Everton have either needed to move or regenerate for years but, because our owner was absolutely skint, we have needed outside investment for either. I could look at what Liverpool's ultra-professional owners have done to Anfield in such a short space of time… although I'm just glad we never ended up in Kirkby.

Mike Gaynes
47 Posted 06/06/2023 at 15:25:34
Niall #40 and Tony #46,

This is the first I've heard of the city's redevelopment plans. (Somehow it hasn't been covered in the Seattle papers.)

What's being planned? Will it be taking place in the area around the new stadium? Fill me in.

Colin Glassar
48 Posted 06/06/2023 at 15:32:34
Manhattan on the Mersey, Mike. It's going to make NYC pale in comparison.
Tony Abrahams
49 Posted 06/06/2023 at 15:41:53
It's only slow at the minute, Mike, but you can guarantee it's going to snowball. The tobacco warehouse, which is probably around 400 or 500 metres away from our new stadium, is currently getting renovated into plush new apartments

This is rumored to be the largest brick building in Europe, so you might begin to imagine the work that is going into a building that was a completely dilapidated shell.

Barry Hesketh
50 Posted 06/06/2023 at 15:56:58
Just read about George Downing in the Echo dated September 2021, who according to a recent tweet, somewhere, is in line to become the Chairman of Everton.

The third of Liverpool's Three Graces, the Port of Liverpool Building, is owned by city property tycoon George Downing.

Known for its distinctive domed roof, the building underwent a major restoration between 2006 and 2009.

Prior to Mr Downing's purchase of the building in 2001 it had been the headquarters of the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board for most of its existence.

Mr Downing is one of the city's biggest commercial landlords with an estimated wealth running into hundreds of millions.

Who Owns Liverpool's Biggest Landmarks?

He would certainly fit in with Tony's claim about redevelopment surrounding the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock at some point in the future.

Niall McIlhone
51 Posted 06/06/2023 at 16:24:24
Hi Mike.

Yes, there are huge plans to develop the area along the Dock Road, a developer called Peel Holdings has acquired swathes of (former) derelict wasteland.

There are ongoing residential and commercial developments, including a riverside park, through which, I hope, Everton fans can pass on their route from Liverpool city centre to the new stadium.

Peel also have parallel developments on the other side of the River Mersey known as Wirral Waters. The scale of the plans is really quite spectacular.

Opinion locally is that this will be a huge positive for the city and for Merseyside, generally. The area in question used to be largely laid to waste (having been bombed heavily by the Luftwaffe during the May Blitz) but the new stadium will sit proudly right on the riverside, and will greet Liverpool's increasing maritime visitors in all its magnificence!!!

Thank you, Dan Meis, by the way, he knocked that one out the park with the design of our new home.

Niall McIlhone
52 Posted 06/06/2023 at 16:36:46
Tony#46: Indeed, there are good reasons to be optimistic, and I note you mention the Tobacco Warehouse.

I think I saw something on YouTube about this having been adapted during WW2 to house huge numbers of US troops who came over from New York City, I think it was used as both accommodation and as a military hospital, and ramps were installed so that the GIs could drive jeeps up and down the building!

There's a poster on YouTube called @aidaneyewitness who does a lot of analysis of architectural features of Liverpool (and elsewhere). I look forward to his piece on Bramley-Moore Dock and it's environs sometime in 2025!

Paul Burns
53 Posted 06/06/2023 at 17:27:36
Niall (51),

Peel Holdings have been sitting on the dock estate for decades with barely a spade in the ground, they're all mouth and no trousers.

Look at the prime land on our famous waterfront on the new ground drones, wasted as a yard for pallets of wood and covered in weeds. Imagine what any other city in the world would do with it.

Anyone would think Peel are doing Everton a favour by selling us the worst plot by the sewage works but they obviously need this to drive construction and investment because they've done a pretty awful job so far.

Paul Burns
54 Posted 06/06/2023 at 17:34:59
What's the matter, aren't Wonga still going?

Everton FC need a complete reorganisation at every level, not a desperate loan. Moshiri needs to go as well, he's out of his depth and is, I suspect, no more than a shady middleman for unknown persons of dubious repute. They've been politically sidelined and he's been left holding the baby.

He is as guilty as the other clowns for the parlous amateur shit-show called Everton currently knocking years off many people's lives.

Bernard Dooley
55 Posted 06/06/2023 at 17:42:05
Ed Prytherch
56 Posted 06/06/2023 at 17:52:58
Thanks for the link, Bernard.
Bobby Mallon
57 Posted 06/06/2023 at 19:10:29
Let's hope they are not buying the ground and the ground is not just something we rent.
Mike Gaynes
58 Posted 06/06/2023 at 19:55:31
Niall #50, thanks. Sounds fantastic.

Colin #48, Bernard #55, a bit grandiose to call it Central Park considering it's only five acres, but it looks really nice on the map.

Tony #49, sounds like a place I should buy into when my wife dumps me and I move there to watch all the games. Those apartments will probably smell wonderful, like pipe tobacco.

Peter Mills
59 Posted 06/06/2023 at 20:29:00
Mike, I’m sure you’re aware that the design of Central Park was heavily influenced by Birkenhead Park, which preceded it by some years.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 06/06/2023 at 20:31:56
If you sit on something long enough then it’s going to make you money, but I agree with Paul B, because Peel should have been paying Everton money, considering they are going to be the real pioneers behind this regeneration scheme.

I think they came up with the title because not many parks are built near the City, Mike, but maybe they should have said Birkenhead Park, for more obvious reasons mate!

The tobacco warehouses are going to be absolutely brilliant once they are finally complete, (to the right of the titanic hotel on Bernard’s map) and being on the windy waterfront might just take you back to your younger days growing up in Chicago.

What was it they said about Chicago? Something about it being my kind of town.

Brent Stephens
61 Posted 06/06/2023 at 20:34:59
Peter, Birkenhead Park was something of a world-wide first as a public park, wasn't it?
Jamie Lenard
62 Posted 06/06/2023 at 20:53:00
Tony @60.

Chicago was nicknamed the Windy City due to the shite spouted by the corrupt politicians – not the actual weather.

Tony Abrahams
63 Posted 06/06/2023 at 21:05:08
Thanks, Jamie. I come on here to learn and I never had a clue that this was the reason for Chicago's nickname.

Corrupt politicians are probably in Liverpool now using the pretext of other corrupt politicians, to go through the city council's books. It wouldn't surprise me if they are also working out how to grab some land for themselves because Liverpool is slowly getting ready to take off once again, imho!

Stephen Davies
64 Posted 06/06/2023 at 21:07:56
Indeed it was AND the inspiration for Central Park NYC
Brent Stephens
65 Posted 06/06/2023 at 21:15:15
Cheers, Stephen. For a one-eyed city, Birkenhead can lay claim to some impressive history (shipyard output etc).
Dave Abrahams
66 Posted 06/06/2023 at 21:19:18
Tony (63), Chicago was named “The Windy City” because of the weather and the “Hot Air Politicians” mostly because of the cold winds blowing through the city coming off the river there.
Mike Gaynes
67 Posted 06/06/2023 at 21:34:27
Pete #59, no, somehow that bit of American history had escaped me. Thanks for sharing!

Jamie #62, we would know, wouldn't we?

For those unaware, Jamie owns Chicago's finest footy pub, AJ Hudson's, the home of the Chicago Evertonians.

Danny O’Neill
68 Posted 06/06/2023 at 21:47:21
I hope and pray this is a new chapter. It looks like it is happening.

I will be honest. I'm still hurting despite the rejoice of retaining our proud status in the top flight. You have hurt me Everton, but I can't stop loving you, no matter what you do. I think there's a Ray Charles song in there somewhere.

Whoever you are, just take care of us.

Unlike those who haven't and taken us for granted.

I hope you are taking over rather than investing.

Feed off the passion. You are investing in something big. Really big. The potential is massive. This club is only where it remains because of the supporters.

Achieve success and we will blow the rest out of the Mersey waters.

I keep asking. Dilemma. Do we take Dixie and the Holy Trinity with us to BMD or leave them in the spiritual home?

Do we have a new Kevin Sheedy statue?

Surely one of the stands has to be named after Goodison?

Lots of thoughts going through my head.

Lets get to pre-season first!!

Craig Harrison
69 Posted 06/06/2023 at 22:19:35
Danny #68. Dixie and the Trinity should stay put at Goodison. We can put up new statues for BK and Maupay at BMD.
Don Alexander
70 Posted 06/06/2023 at 22:34:51
Jamie (#62), full respect, but Chicago's a city we just love and have visited several times, summer and winter. We live on the UK coast too and therefore have a lot of experience of strong winds, but only in a Chicago winter have I seen substantial ropes attached to buildings close to Navy Pier and, boy, do you need them to stay on your feet given the blast of those winds!
Paul Birmingham
71 Posted 06/06/2023 at 22:41:32
Hopefully clear minds and clarity for Everton, soon.

Enough, journeys to Cape Fear, in football terms to last a life time.

Now this preseason, to take the learning, and face reality, stop, and reset, including a clear out of the board, and a can do, and achieve success attitude, for recruitment, youth development and for the first team, and management and running of Everton FC.

No more chess games with the grim reaper, in terms of miss managing Everton Football Club, surely take the positives, and never again to be led to almost oblivion, but such a careless and lack lustre Board and Chairmen.

Surely, now is the time for Everton,, to press the stop button, and reset the whole club.

Fate, fortune and luck, and Evertonian Die Hards, in spirit and in soul across the globe, deserve a club that is worthy of the Evertonian fans dedication, commitment and patience.

This is a life term of endearment, and the new era, stability and a clear direction, must start now.

Sean Dyche, and his staff, have shown their commitment to the cause, and hopefully will be supported by the new stake holders, whom hopefully can take a majority, and ideally a total take over, ASAP.

Easier said than done.

Hope eternal.


Ed Prytherch
72 Posted 06/06/2023 at 22:54:56
It was windy on the lakefront the day that I ran the Chicago Marathon but it wasn't raining.
Brian Wilkinson
73 Posted 06/06/2023 at 22:55:27
Danny@68, are you getting Ray Charles mixed up with Leo Sayer, I Can't Stop Loving You :-)

Let's hope Bills one man band is rode out of town soon, the show must go on, when the curtain finally falls on our Chairman, I really will feel like dancing..

Cannot believe I knocked 4 Leo Sayer songs out, is it August yet.

Danny O’Neill
74 Posted 06/06/2023 at 22:55:31
Great words Paul. Perfectly presented.

Don, I was based at Haverfordwest for 4 years. The south west of Wales is a brutal as it is beautiful. Talk about four seasons in one day. And the wind coming off the Irish Sea / Atlantic Ocean. Just brutal. As well as the horizontal wind and rain.

Craig, I'm totally torn on the statues. But I get too emotional.

If they put a Kevin Sheedy one up, I'll have to be coaxed into the new stadium as I would stand admiring it.

I'm joking.

I think.

Danny O’Neill
75 Posted 06/06/2023 at 23:03:20
Brian. No, definitely Ray Charles for me.


Those happy hours that we once knew
Tho' long ago, they still make me blue

Says it all.

Mike Gaynes
76 Posted 06/06/2023 at 23:25:35
Danny, check out the Van Morrison version, I think from around 1990. Nice memory for me of a particular evening.
Brian Wilkinson
77 Posted 06/06/2023 at 23:30:37
Oh yes, that one, Danny, good tune, think I will put the Leo Sayer's one in Room 101, and we will say no more about the embarrassment. :-)
Greg Nelli
78 Posted 07/06/2023 at 01:50:24
Obviously MSP will bring a little money in but, from all reports, it's the business acumen relative to sporting clubs that intrigues me. The fact that, from an operations point of view, the club has been a shambles, one would think even bringing competency to the off-field side of things should bring significant benefits to the club.

Yes, the reported two board seats will at worst wrest some control away from the people who put us in this position.

Darryl Ritchie
79 Posted 07/06/2023 at 07:39:27
How many board seats are there? Is it set number, or could the two MSP members just pull up a couple extra chairs, and join the existing board, without any from said body getting the boot?
Colin Glassar
80 Posted 07/06/2023 at 07:44:44

I've been told Kenwright's already started to hide the chairs in the boardroom in the belief that, if there's no chairs to sit on, the new members can't sit at the table. Cunning twat!

Tony Abrahams
81 Posted 07/06/2023 at 08:21:17
I heard the same thing, Colin, but then someone put on Danny's link, and he just broke down in tears.
Rob Halligan
82 Posted 07/06/2023 at 08:42:28
Colin and Tony…….both wrong! Who do you think holds the key to the boardroom? Nobody gets in without Kenwright's say-so!
Colin Glassar
83 Posted 07/06/2023 at 08:44:32
Kenwright invented The Game of Thrones.
Andy Crooks
84 Posted 07/06/2023 at 08:47:27
Mike, @76, there's apparently a local bye law here that prohibits the name Van Morrison to be used in any sentence alongside the word nice.
The result, I believe, of a petition signed by 99.9% of the population!
Peter Mills
85 Posted 07/06/2023 at 08:59:27
I find it a little puzzling that a £500m project on a fixed-price contract is now being described as a £760m development.
John Raftery
86 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:02:14
Peter (85),

You are not alone in your puzzlement.

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:04:54
Honestly, Rob, I was getting told he was dancing on the tables, snapping chairs, and singing – I've got the key, I've got the secret – but then someone changed the music to Ray Charles and he started screaming and sobbing about those happy hours that he once knew.

He was screaming "Nobody rings anymore asking me what would Everton have done – so I'm just going to live my life in dreams of yesterday, but don't fuckIn ask me to leave because this football club wouldn't be anything without me." Aaaarrrrrrggghhhh!!!!

Eric Myles
88 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:31:26
Peter, John #85 & #86. It's very simple and has been explained many times on this site.

The £500 million fixed price is the cost of the stadium project with Laing O'Rourke.

The £760 million development cost includes the stadium project plus all other outlays like planning and other regulatory fees, architects and engineers fees, the dock infill, etc, etc.

Tony Abrahams
89 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:32:00
I think there could be perfectly valid reasons for the price going up when you look at the present cost-of-living crisis, but it's definitely something that could and should be explained.

Michael K, put something on another thread about how Everton's losses suddenly changed by over £8 million pounds on the next years books, not long after Bill Kenwright purchased Everton, but a lot of these things just go unnoticed without people questioning these type of miscalculations – if this is what they are?

I know I slaughter Kenwright every single day on these pages but it's simply because he's a creature of habit and I don't trust that he's ever done anything that was in the best interests of Everton FC, rather than himself.

This goes back all the way to Wayne Rooney, who confirmed what I'd long thought about why he left us all those years ago in an interview with Toffee TV not so long ago.

I'm not actually blaming Bill Kenwright for anything to do with our stadium, especially with Dan Mies saying things alluding to his input as being both fantastic and really helpful.

Jim Lloyd
90 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:39:03
Peter, John... same here. The only thing I can think of, is that there's a clause in the contract, that allows an increase due to inflationary pressures on materials.

There would be some rises, I think due to the Russians attacking Ukraine, but this is 50% increase... if me maths is anywhere near right!

I think it was a massive increase in steel prices that put paid to Liverpool's plans to build on Stanley Park… either that or my curses!

Tony Abrahams
91 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:45:55
I've just tried to find that link, Eric, but other than a few lines I couldn't find anything else, although this is possibly because I was side-tracked reading about Arsenal doing work to the Emirates, and how Dynamo Zagreb are building a new 35,000 stadium for around €60 million in Croatia.

Going back to the new Wembley, then it does seem that construction prices in England have always been ridiculously high (I'm sure the millennium stadium in Cardiff wasn't that expensive – but this is in Wales!) and especially when you have got to spend £100 million just on groundwork, which is what Everton have had to do, just getting started on making sure the foundations were correct.

John Bourne
92 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:50:10
I'm sorry but am I missing something here?

We are nearly relegated for two consecutive seasons.

We have a collection of average ability players.

A striker who rarely plays.

Seemingly little prospect of funds available to strengthen the squad.

The looming prospect of serious financial investigations.

And the solution to all the above?

Spend circa £760 million on a new stadium.


Eric Myles
93 Posted 07/06/2023 at 09:53:45
Jerome #45,

Let's not forget that those loans are only converted to equity if Moshiri does not pay the money back.

And he has always maintained that he could finance the stadium from his own pocket if he wanted to.

So he can easily maintain a majority ownership by paying off only some of the loan.

I don't think he's going anywhere soon as the club will be worth much more with a completed stadium plus many years of non-football-related bookings at said stadium.

Gary Brown
94 Posted 07/06/2023 at 10:02:27
John @ 92 - take a drive down Derby Road towards town. You'll see a big fooking steel thing that looks like a stadium going up…..

Your cunning plan to “not fund it” is 3 years too late.

John Chambers
95 Posted 07/06/2023 at 10:18:52
One question I have about the costs for the stadium project is what is included for the changes to Goodison?

The plans are obviously to demolish it and develop housing/offices etc – is this part of the £760m and what benefits could this development bring to Everton financially (if any)? Does anyone have any insight on this?

Simon Jones
96 Posted 07/06/2023 at 10:22:17
"If you build it, he will come."

Or maybe the mantra for the new stadium is, "Just get the thing built."

Suddenly we are a more attractive package for attracting investment and whatever else the modern world of football has to offer.

Kevin Molloy
97 Posted 07/06/2023 at 10:34:54
John @92,

Yes, there is a certain dissonance involved in holding the view that, whilst we can't afford a centre-forward, we are building a billion-pound stadium down at the Docks.

Obviously it's going to look very nice when we move in, but did we really need to spend a billion pounds to get ten thousand added to the attendance?

I also don't see how the Everton fanbase will be funding the 'huge increase in matchday revenue that a new stadium will generate'. Not to put too fine a point on it, Evertonians as a rule don't have that much dosh.

Is it the plan that Vodafone and all the rest will be knocking themselves over in the stampede to shift their boxes at Old rafford, Anfield and The Etihad, to get in on the real action over here?? Well, I suppose stranger things have happened, although quite when and where escape me for the moment.

Dave Abrahams
98 Posted 07/06/2023 at 10:40:41
John (95),

At an AGM, Mrs Barrett-Baxindale showed a few plans for when Goodison Park was demolished.

It consisted of a small park with two small blocks of flats. I don't know if that is still the plan or who drew up the plan.

Pete Clarke
99 Posted 07/06/2023 at 10:50:38
Everton always have to pay more for things than everyone else. We are the proper mugs of the Premier League – if not the whole Football League.

Take a look at the signings we have made over the last few decades. I mean, we thought Sigurdsson was a ridiculous fee but at least he scored some goals. Maupay was a shocking deal with 1 goal to show for it (albeit a 3-pointer).

We have literally wasted hundreds of millions probably because Chairman Bill was spending money that wasn't his. Just getting rid of this loony will save us hundreds of millions.

Talking of which, this MSP are pretty slack. They have been involved at Everton for days now and I can't see any sign of Bill's tears flooding down Everton Valley. Whst the fuck is holding them back?

Tony. You may not blame Kenwright for anything to do with the stadium and that's probably because it's gone so well – he clearly had nothing to do with it. Then again, if he somehow manages to get his name put on any part of that new stadium, then it will ruin it for many of us.

John Bourne
100 Posted 07/06/2023 at 11:09:56
Gary #94

"…your cunning plan to “not fund it” is 3 years too late."

You have a point, but the same logic could be equally applied to the failure to build a squad capable of surviving the rigours of the Premier League.

That may well be 3 years too late.

Jim Lloyd
101 Posted 07/06/2023 at 11:10:18

He can have the toilets named after him.

Pete Clarke
102 Posted 07/06/2023 at 11:16:09
That’ll make me drink more before the game. 🍻
Jim Lloyd
103 Posted 07/06/2023 at 11:18:35
:) :) :)

We'll all be drinking more and it'll help get our profits up!

John Bourne
104 Posted 07/06/2023 at 11:23:42
Kevin #97

I agree with everything you wrote. I struggle with the cart-before-the-horse mindset of those running Everton but, if it gives people something positive to think about, then all well and good.

I found the spectacle of fans running onto the pitch to "celebrate" us not being relegated beyond my ability to comprehend.

And we may well start the season with the same set of players.

What could possibly go wrong?

Jerome Shields
105 Posted 07/06/2023 at 12:00:24
Eric #93

I had realised that MSP could convert their loans to equity and there was a form of security involved. But the reality is as you describe. Moshiri can still maintain a majority shareholding.

With a very small board the two MSP directors could be additions rather than replacements. It is Moshiri that has to provide the replacements for the existing directors, if he is going to do that. I wonder if the MSP directors are immediate on the loan, with associated shares, or their appointment is actually dependent on conversion to equity with voting rights.

I have always thought that the main interest of Moshiri and his associates was a front seat on a docklands development, rather than Everton FC. The way he has played it from the start seems to suggest that. I think he is still playing it that way. It is difficult for Evertonians to have that perspective.

The first docklands development and regeneration was Barcelona. There is a museum there that shows its development. It was the blueprint for all other dockland development and regeneration… so they claim.

Tony Abrahams
106 Posted 07/06/2023 at 12:19:27
I've paid for four season tickets once again Pete C, but if Bill Kenwright is still involved next season, I will definitely not be going to Goodison Park.

We could argue the merits of building a much-needed new stadium before getting a good team all day long but the fact is Moshiri has spent money trying to do both, and the fact that the stadium is coming along fine might just back up Jerome's real estate argument?

Laurie Hartley has posted the absolutely brilliant regeneration of Melbourne Docks, that was kickstarted by a football stadium around the time of the millennium, on these pages a few times. They are definitely worth a look at, and it has done wonders for Melbourne as a city, because suddenly it started getting voted the best city in the whole of the Southern Hemisphere, on a regular basis.

Dave Abrahams
107 Posted 07/06/2023 at 12:26:54
Pete (99),

Chairman Bill is saving those tears for TV and the rest of the media, he'll be the only one crying the rest of us will be laughing at the performance.

Steve Brown
108 Posted 07/06/2023 at 12:32:55
The new stadium will increase customer and commercial revenue, and allow greater investment in the squad in the mid-term.

The perilous period is when the stadium is being built as it always leads to lower investment in the squad, Since we have tried huge investment in the squad and failed, breaking Premier League Profitability and Sustainability Rules in the process, we cannot invest heavily in the squad anyway.

We can still invest in the stadium, however, and it would be criminal commercially not to do so. It would leave us in a state of permanent stagnation.

Moshiri is in it for the revaluation of the club after the stadium is built and a foothold in future waterfront redevelopment.

Pete Clarke
109 Posted 07/06/2023 at 13:20:05
Australia is sport mad but Melbourne is on a different level.

I took my two lads over to watch Argentina v Brazil friendly a few years ago at the MCG. There was NRL live the night before and AFL and NRL the following night plus lots of other stuff going on. The stadiums are indeed brilliant. The bars along the waterfront are top class and it's just a lovely well-balanced city.

Perth now has new stadium that is being called the best in Australia. It's used for all sports plus concerts so the revenue generated seems endless. Hopefully we can benefit from the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock in the same way and it becomes a focal point of the city too.
Bob Parrington
110 Posted 07/06/2023 at 13:46:13
The silence from the so-called Board is still deafening! Hopefully, something is going on behind the scenes.

We need to be strongly looking to kick out the not wanted and bring in the necessaries in good time to have a properly balanced and effective squad.

I wish Ange all the best at Spurs as long as we beat them at home and away, in the Carabao Cup and the FA Cup! Not asking too much!

Mike Gaynes
111 Posted 07/06/2023 at 14:10:21
Darryl #79, yes, the club could simply add Board members. We currently have only four. Other clubs have 6-12. There is no set limit.

Kevin #97 and John #104, the payoff in matchday revenue generated by the new stadium will come not from the everyday fanbase but from the corporate suites and premium seating. This is a massive revenue stream for many clubs, and corporate entities have plenty of sponsorship "dosh" to spend.

That's the single biggest reason why we should be happy at MSP's involvement and Board presence -- they're experts in the sports marketing business.

Bobby Mallon
112 Posted 07/06/2023 at 14:20:09
My mate just said Everton are being investigated over the Delli Alli deal. They say we bought him for £40 million; we say we bought him for nothing until he played 20 games, then £40 million.
Kevin Molloy
113 Posted 07/06/2023 at 14:24:33

Yes, fair enough, the Premier League is always going to be a draw for business. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

There was a terrible stink when Liverpool tried to introduce 'premium seating'. I thought their owners were unfairly criticised, to be honest. It makes sense to keep a small number of seats for high net-worth individuals who won't blink about paying £200 for a ticket, but they got themselves into a terrible froth about it, and had to withdraw it in the end.

I think that may be one of the reasons the Yanks are a bit fed up with them now and want to sell.

Tony Abrahams
114 Posted 07/06/2023 at 14:34:19
One of the things that really surprised me about the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock was reading that Everton haven't gone that big on corporate, Mike, so maybe William has had a lot more input than you think, Pete!

Those yanks are probably waiting for whoever comes to Liverpool after losing out on owning Manchester United with their tales between their legs Kevin.

When people that don't like losing once start bidding, then there's only one way the price is going to go. I just hope I'm wrong, again.

Rob Halligan
115 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:13:45
Bobby # 112………….my understanding of the Dele Alli deal was that after he’s played twenty games, we then pay Spurs £10M. The rest ie, £30M is made up of “Add Ons”, something which unfortunately from our point of view, is highly unlikely to happen. I’ve also been told, or read, that Spurs have entered into their accounts £40M as being received, while we, quite rightly, have not entered a single penny as being spent on a transfer fee, simply because we don’t have to spend a penny until he plays his twentieth game, something which is also highly unlikely to happen. All we’ve paid out is his wages.

I believe that this is the charge relating to the FFP charge we are facing, so surely shouldn’t Spurs also be investigated as their books show “A payment of £40M” being received which suddenly seems to have vanished. Daniel Levy is one cunning rat, and no doubt he will have some of the best lawyers he can find to bail him out, if indeed, what I’m saying is correct.

Mike Gaynes
116 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:21:45
Tony #114, Pete #109, Kevin #113,

I heard a podcast yesterday with Rodger Armstrong interviewing Matt Slater of The Athletic and Paul the Esk. They had some really interesting information on the business structure and projected revenue streams of the luxury suites and premium seating at the new stadium. Paul Columb texted it to me.

I don't know how to post the link here, but if you're curious, just Google "The Results Business Podcast" and click on Episode 2.

They also speculate heavily on the loan structure of the financing being provided by MSP and Blythe Capital. Among other things, they confirm the money is already flowing from MSP.

Rob #115, Wow, that's a shocker. I had no idea the Dele deal was the trigger for the investigation.

Alan Bailey
117 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:23:31
I have not seen a reference on this board to Andy Bell. There is mention that MSP might want to appoint 2 directors on the board.

Andy Bell would be an ideal director for them. He has brokered a loan to help finishing the stadium. He started AJ Bell Investments in 1995 from scratch and now it is worth about a billion pounds.

AJ Bell sponsors A J Bell Stadium the home Rugby Super League's Salford Red Devils and Gallagher Premiership's Sale Sharks. He would sort out the current board and possibly take over from Bill Kenwright.

But in addition to the above credits the most important thing he is an Evertonian.

Barry Hesketh
118 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:28:34
Alan @117,

I would argue that the least important thing is that he's an Evertonian, we've had the biggest Evertonian 'ever' at the helm and that's gone well, hasn't it?

Brian Williams
119 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:29:43
Mike G #116.

Wow, that's a shocker. I had no idea the Dele deal was the trigger for the investigation.

Mike, it wasn't/isn't mate.

Mike Gaynes
120 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:30:04
Alan #117,

I've heard or read from several sources -- most recently on the podcast I mentioned in post #116 -- that Bell cannot be a Director because of the loan. Under standard business practices it would be considered a conflict of interest to be a creditor overseeing his own loan.

Rob Halligan
121 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:35:17

I was told that it was a transfer during the 2021-22 season which was under investigation. The only possible one that it could be would be the Dele Alli transfer, because all the others were either free, or bought as a result of the Lucas Digne transfer to Villa.

Of course, it's only something I was told, and therefore have no concrete evidence. But as you seem so sure it's not, what is it that you know?

Brian Williams
122 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:38:14
Rob, in short, it's due to the huge losses the club have suffered over a number of seasons which break the Profitability and Sustainibilty Rules of the Premier League.
Barry Hesketh
123 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:42:54
I'm convinced that somebody at the club believed that the club could lose £105m every season, rather than over three seasons… wouldn't be surprising if true, would it?

Good job we've had an accountant for an owner, isn't it?

Rob Halligan
124 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:43:11
I understand that, Brian, something which the club deny, but there is, as I've been told, one particular transfer which is being investigated. Thinking back, I think it was reported on this site when the story first broke. Will need to try and find that story.
Eric Myles
125 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:47:34
Jerome #105, I'm prepared to give Moshiri the benefit of the doubt since he has poured his own money into both the squad and the stadium.

So much so that the money put into the squad has us falling foul of the P&S regulations, maybe. (Stadium costs not being part of P&S calculations)

And THAT may prevent future investment into the squad.

Maybe he was just blinded by Chairman Bill's dream of a team playing in the Champions League on the banks of the Royle Blue Mersey. (Except Chaiman Bill's reality was a retail car park in Kirkby).

One thing I've read about the AJ Bell loan is that it's a 'bridging loan' which are usually taken out while waiting for funds to come into your account. So if that is repaid from the MSP £105 million, then there is no obstacle to AJ Bell being on the board as there's no longer a supposed conflict of interest.

Brian Williams
126 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:48:34
Rob I think even BPB will find it difficult to deny when the published accounts can be easily viewed.

And I wouldn't believe anything he said anyway.

I think we're in the shit one way or another mate.

Rob Halligan
127 Posted 07/06/2023 at 15:59:15
Found it………..

Everton have been referred to an independent commission by the Premier League over an alleged breach of its profitability and sustainability rules following what is reported to have been a 10-month investigation.

The League have said the alleged breach is from the 2021-22 campaign when the club reported losses in excess of £370m over the three preceding seasons, well above the permitted £105m threshold.

Obviously, I’m no financial whizz kid, and half this stuff goes over my head anyway, but doesn’t that second paragraph above indicate just one breach? Maybe I’ve mis-interpreted it.

Eric Myles
128 Posted 07/06/2023 at 16:04:07
Mike # 120 "Under standard business practices it would be considered a conflict of interest to be a creditor overseeing his own loan."

Doesn't sound right but I've no knowledge of business law / practice.

I'm thinking of small businesses where the owner / director loans money to their own business? Even scale that up a bit? So why not at a large scale?

Even the MSP money will be loans so how do they get seats on the board?

Brian Williams
129 Posted 07/06/2023 at 16:13:43
Rob I think you have misinterpreted it mate. It clearly states that it's due to losses over the three year period concluding with the 21-22 campaign.

It IS just one breach, in a way, but it's one which took a three year period to happen.

But hey, we're not gonna fall out over it mate. There'll be more deep shit to do that over. 🤣

Mike Gaynes
130 Posted 07/06/2023 at 16:17:47
Eric, I can only answer the last question. MSP's loan will be converted to ownership equity at a certain point in the process. They are not expecting actual repayment. Therefore, there's no conflict of interest.

Your other points are beyond me, but some of them are addressed in the podcast I mentioned in post #116. Check it out.

Ed Prytherch
131 Posted 07/06/2023 at 16:42:46
Bobby 112, I heard that story about Deli a few months ago from one of my brothers in England and I doubt that there is any truth to it. Rob's explanation is how I understand it.

Maybe when a club sells a player on the drip they can claim the full amount in the accounts for that year but the buying club only show the amount that they actually paid. I think that I have read bout other clubs using it to stay out of trouble with P&S rules.

I will believe that it is the source of an investigation when I see a reliable source.

Pete Clarke
132 Posted 07/06/2023 at 17:02:54

I am thinking that, although we were in breach of the P + S Rules, the club realized this and put ourselves in real jeopardy of relegation by cutting back our spending and offloading a lot of staff.

This will work in our favour and anyway it would open a can of worms should they try to hit us with fines and sanctions when there are plenty of others to be looked at.

Even Ancelotti was smart enough to remind them that there were six clubs trying to break away into a European super league so they needed to get other things in order first.

How Man City get away with it I don't know because their squad must be the most expensive in the world plus the wages on top of that.

Rob Halligan
133 Posted 07/06/2023 at 17:06:47
Wasn’t going to fall out with you over this, Brian. Happy to be proved wrong, and it’s a reason why I try and steer clear of such matters.
Kieran Kinsella
134 Posted 07/06/2023 at 17:28:48

Isn't it possible that one deal (e.g. Alli for example) caused the breach? Obviously, our losses were way over the allowable limit but prior to January when Dele was signed the EPL had said we were in compliance (due to our ridiculously inflated covid loses) then suddenly six months later we were being investigated. The only thing that happened in between was the January transfer window. Now, extrapolating from that at the time of the Dele deal Spurs director of football was Fabio Paratici who has since been banned for among other things, inflating transfer fees supposedly received by Juventus when he worked there. Could there be a discrepancy between what Spurs reported as income (e.g. Dele money) versus our lack of reporting it as an expense? Now it's possible as others have suggested that BMO turned us in for some other issue, or that the EPL said we were in compliance without having looked at everything under a microscope. But the one thing that is clear is: Kenwright out.

Steve Brown
135 Posted 07/06/2023 at 17:34:12
Brian, Rob hasn't misunderstood it.

The Premier League investigation is about losses over 3 seasons in question; however, the specific issue is the treatment of Delle Alli's transfer fee in the Everton accounts in 2021-22. The way in which that is accounted for dictates whether we have breached the £105 million losses over the 3 years.

Hence one charge. If the issue was writing off of losses as Covid costs over a 3-season period, we would be facing multiple charges.

Ian Bennett
136 Posted 07/06/2023 at 17:36:41
If Andy Bell wants to be a director of EFC, there is no legal prohibitive from him taking the role just because he's a creditor.

There are plenty of owners who have lent money to their club and been directors of the club at the same time. If he's conflicted, he just abstains from the issue at the board meeting. My honest assessment is Andy Bell just doesn't want to be a director of EFC. So I'd file it as rubbish.

In terms of accounting treatment of Dele Alli, ours seems right from an accounting point of view.

Spurs seems very aggressive to be banking on the fee being paid with such conditions. Assuming it is performance and appearance based, I find it hard to see how Spurs can claim an asset of that size, with such uncertainty, and how an auditor would sign that off.

If they have booked the receivable of £40M, they will be writing that off as a nice big loss this year. As there is no way on earth Alli is playing again for us to trigger such a cost.

Again, I think this is just made-up rubbish.

We are in the dock for knowingly going over financial Profitability and Sustainability Rules. Even with the offsets, we are way over what is allowable.

I suspect the rumour of it being just the Dele Alli transfer has come from Everton to try and trivialise it into a small issue, rather than gross mismanagement of the club. I know, lies coming out of Goodison boardroom, who would've thought it?

#RingFencedStadiumMoney #ArtetaMoney #RooneyNotSoldFor£50M #DeniseHeadlock

Paul Hetherington
137 Posted 07/06/2023 at 18:03:17
It's a shame they don't apply something similar to the "advantage" rule with FFP.

City's alleged doping is right up there with Lance Armstrong in terms of both the prodigious level of it and the success it bought.

In the same metaphor, we're like some poor schlub who got the cheating drugs mixed up and injected himself with rat poison instead of EPO.

It feels depressingly on-brand that they'll inevitably get off scot-free for using creative bookkeeping to create one of the greatest teams of this decade while we'll probably end up with a suspended sentence for decimating our squad back to the late nineties.

David West
138 Posted 07/06/2023 at 18:55:42
I hope the silence from the club is because they are working out all the finer details of the following:

• Bill's departure

• Bill's replacement

• DBB's departure

• DBB's replacement

• Ingles's departure (finance director ha)

• Ingles's replacement

• The new board members.

• The make-up of the new board

• A statement regarding the new shareholders and shareholding.

It's a lot for any company, but this clean sweep will be the only way they can unite all Evertonians behind any future vision or plans. >It gives the new investors a clean slate. The new board and CEO a clean start.

Imo, it's the only way Moshiri buys himself breathing space. I've lost confidence in Moshiri to make the right decisions. This is his last roll of his dice.

Brian Williams
139 Posted 07/06/2023 at 19:08:24
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Barry Hesketh
140 Posted 07/06/2023 at 19:10:23
David @138,

I think it will be closer to the end of June, before we hear any news on what will happen regarding any deals with MSP. Look how long the United 'takeover' has been going, with one party apparently putting one final bid in by this coming Friday.

I fear that our deal will be complicated to the nth degree and Moshiri will try and retain majority ownership even if the deal happens. If it goes beyond the end of June, I think it will begin to impact the club negatively.

David West
141 Posted 07/06/2023 at 19:26:40

Hopefully with it not being a full takeover and MSP being in negotiations for some time now, it may not take as long as a full takeover.

I'd rather wait for a comprehensive statement of all my points from my previous post being addressed than us being drip-fed information.

MSP and Moshiri surely must have sounded out a replacement CEO? They must have an idea of who they want on the board.

I don't want to hear this person left one week, another next week. I understand there has to be continuity. Someone has to be running the club, but surely Denise, Bill and Grant have had their last hurrah.

A clean slate.

Brian Williams
142 Posted 07/06/2023 at 19:57:16
I think maybe somebody may stay on to run EITC but be removed from the board.
Jerome Shields
143 Posted 07/06/2023 at 23:02:22

The league were monitoring Everton trading.It is what was added to the Final Accounts that has caused concern.The previous Auditor leaving with or without reason would have flagged up concern, but the new Auditor statement in the Final Accounts would have been taken seriously.and caused closer scutiny.

The Dele Alli deal from Poor due diligence, to the amount of money involved, to the parties involved was never right and in retrospect looks even worse.

The Premier Leagues confidence bolted for some reason.Because the Independent Commission meets in private we might never know.

Jerome Shields
144 Posted 07/06/2023 at 23:02:22

The league were monitoring Everton trading.It is what was added to the Final Accounts that has caused concern.The previous Auditor leaving with or without reason would have flagged up concern, but the new Auditor statement in the Final Accounts would have been taken seriously.and caused closer scutiny.

The Dele Alli deal from Poor due diligence, to the amount of money involved, to the parties involved was never right and in retrospect looks even worse.

The Premier Leagues confidence bolted for some reason.Because the Independent Commission meets in private we might never know.

Eric Myles
145 Posted 08/06/2023 at 03:39:25
Ed #131, from my limited knowledge of accounts, the selling club would book the first tranche as income and the remainder as accounts receivable.

The buying club would book the first tranche as expenditure and the remainder as debt.

Then the accountants get to practice their dark arts by throwing in amortisation and other potions with the result being whatever they think they can get away with. Usually the first number they thought of X 13/36 and carry the 1.

Eric Myles
146 Posted 08/06/2023 at 06:48:29
Ian #36, Spurs seems very aggressive to be banking on the fee being paid with such conditions. Assuming it is performance and appearance based, I find it hard to see how Spurs can claim an asset of that size, with such uncertainty, and how an auditor would sign that off.

Sounds like a scene from "The Smartest Guys in the Room" and their accountants Arthur Anderson.

Although, like Enron and AA who had SEC approval to use an unorthodox accounting practice, we have had approval from the EPL yet Spurs are not getting scrutinised also?

Ian Bennett
147 Posted 08/06/2023 at 07:51:39
Ed #131, from my limited knowledge of accounts, the selling club would book the first tranche as income and the remainder as accounts receivable.

That would be correct if the deal was based on paying a transfer fee in installments, but not if the deal was based on essentially add ins and performance appearances. I understand Alli was the latter and not the former.

Most transfer deals will have profit, trophy/merit or appearance bonuses when they sell players. My understanding is the selling team don't recognise these until they are triggered. The buying team recognise these obligations if there is more certainty that they'll about to happen or have happened.

If you look in the efc accounts there will be a note about obligations that might happen if clauses are met. These are not included in our debts, but could be a debt obligation in the future.

As I say I can't see that efc has a problem if Alli was a performance related transfer fee. The only crack I can see is if we have recorded the gain on Richarlison separately from the Alli deal - and Levy has linked the two, meaning Spurs do get essentially paid for Alli.

If that has happened then board need nailing. We will essentially sacraficed a top player, for a duffer lost in the football wilderness.

Jim Lloyd
148 Posted 08/06/2023 at 08:14:06
Whatever's going on with all the financial malarkey, I'll willingly leave alone and just concentrate on my hopes as in David's post (138)

If we get investment, or maybe a major partner, then perhaps the dark and dismal days under Kenwright will become a nightmare memory.

Martin Mason
149 Posted 08/06/2023 at 08:49:11
Luckily we've only got two problems at the club, the board and financing and a championship quality squad. Tally Ho once we sort these out
Jim Lloyd
150 Posted 08/06/2023 at 09:06:52
They're not minor problems, they're massive; but we might just start being able to solve them...assuming we're still in business.
Martin Mason
151 Posted 08/06/2023 at 09:42:51
Dave Abrahams
152 Posted 09/06/2023 at 12:41:53
It looks like the deal with MSP is nearly completed according to The Echo, but what do they know!!
Brian Williams
153 Posted 09/06/2023 at 12:50:38
Dave #152.

It shoulda been sorted last week but Kenwright is holding things up by insisting on the sole rights to the musical "How I Saved Everton."

Danny O’Neill
154 Posted 09/06/2023 at 12:53:08
Dave Abrahams, that one will play out.

We play Tranmere next month. Bolton is an evening fixture so a bit tricky, and then Stoke. I wish it was next month now.

The change is coming where needed, but one thing that won't change is the supporters.

Danny O’Neill
155 Posted 09/06/2023 at 12:57:07
I like your cynicism, Brian.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Let's get the change done and get next season on the road.

Europe in just over 12 months time.

Rob Halligan
156 Posted 09/06/2023 at 13:18:33
Dave# 152………the same red echo that says we are interested in Harry Maguire. Scary. 😨😨😨
Brian Williams
157 Posted 09/06/2023 at 14:29:12
Me a cynic? 😳
Believe it or not I'm one of life's eternal optimists. It's just that our beloved club quashes that on a regular basis. But we pick ourselves up and hope again.
They say it's the hope that kills you. I'd say when there's no hope left, that's what kills you.
Stephen Davies
158 Posted 10/06/2023 at 20:54:45
It's getting closer
Dave Abrahams
159 Posted 10/06/2023 at 21:02:36
Rob (156), Thank God we can’t afford Maguire or his wages Rob.
Derek Taylor
160 Posted 14/06/2023 at 09:42:58
It's looking more likely every day of confusion that Pickford will be sacrificed on the alter of debt which will eventually become unsustainable.

No doubt Chairman Bill will be asking for a wedge of compensation before he lets Mosh off the hook of promising him the Chair for life ! Only at Everton .

Derek Taylor
161 Posted 14/06/2023 at 09:55:28

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