Opening bid for Gibbs-White knocked back

£20M bid for Gibbs White turned down apparently. Reports say they are looking for closer to £30M. Seems a lot for a player who’s only had one good season in the Championship.

Meanwhile Crystal Palace get the equally talented Doucoure for £18M and Brentford getting Lewis-Potter for £16M. Let’s hope we can find some value out there.

Sam,

Lewis-Potter & Hickey at Brentford and we are supposedly in for Walker-Peters & Cornet.

Brentford look like they're getting it right with what they've got?

Ian, yes, and Strakosha. Looks like sensible business as usual from them.

Sounds like we're getting desperate. £25M plus add-ons? Leave him there.

Time to look elsewhere, methinks.

We need to walk away from this one. Not a stand-out player even in the Championship and untried to a great extent in the Premier League.

Are we just looking to buy him from the links with Thelwell and Prosser at Wolves? If so, it's a bit of lazy scouting and I would have expected more than just going back to your old club.

Time for them to get some time-consuming hard work done and find some young gems instead of paying over the odds to Wolves.

This is where we've gone wrong in the past, being held to ransom for players who aren't even all that good...yet.

Only offer what we think he's worth then move on to other targets. That's if we even have a scouting network besides watching Match of the Day.

£25M and it's rejected!!!!!? Don't we have any scouts to look into other leagues, for fuck's sake!!? There are lots of great young, hungry players out there for only a fraction of £25M!

Said it before and I'll say it again, sell Richarlison and if Calvert-Lewin has another injury-hit season, then we're done for. It'll be speedy wingers crossing into the box with no-one there to take advantage, Rondon can't keep up.😡

Some valid points about lazy scouting and being overpriced. On the positive side ;

He is young and on the up, played 37 games last season so passes Frank's robustness test. 22 combined goals and assists in those games is not to be sniffed at. He will bring youthful energy and hunger into the team, at the age of 22 he can continue to improve.

Having Frank Lampard as manager is a good opportunity to be finally shifting to buying great young potential and improving them, it's good for the club and makes business sense if their value increases.

I'd rather us be taking a gamble on this attacking midfielder than say Jesse Lingard, ie, paying massive wages to someone in their twilight years who wants £150k pw and thinks they are doing us a favour.

Clueless club, clueless recruitment. Nothing has changed.

Agree, Tony, he looks a real prospect and grafts too. I am curious about the signing, however, as he isn't an out-and-out winger.

I trust that they have a plan but won't relax until we get someone to cover Richarlison and two more bodies in midfield. I get so frustrated watching other teams pick up bargains, Lewis-Potter £18M FFS!

I saw we were linked to Onana, watched his YouTube highlight reel and was put off, he looks like an aggressive Bambi on Ice to me but what do I know?

Yes Steve, the DCM is the biggest decision this summer, I don't know enough about Onana, I'd like to know more, especially if he has the necessary short sprint speed as well as quality to cover the ground and do the work.

I am hoping for. Gana+ player, the next N'Golo Kante. Is there a young player out there Frank can get in and develop?

Is a Bambi on Ice a good thing or a bad thing?

It's a good thing, Mike, lol.

Just to put this into perspective, Aaronson just joined Leeds for £29M having scored 9 goals and assisted 10 in 46 games for Salzburg. Comparable fee; comparable player.

The curious thing about this signing is not the price tag. It is that he plays in exactly the same position as Dele Alli. There is no room for both of them in the first XI.

Mike, Good for the winter games, but at this price probably a little deer.

We are linked to a young, hungry player who's excelled in the Championship and it's ‘lazy scouting'?

We're linked with Lingard and it's ‘Nothing has changed at the club paying massive wages for cast-offs…. we should sign young, hungry players who've excelled in the Championship'!!

And the feedback loop continues.

Loos-loose.

It's probably nonsense anyway, most outlets reporting £20M rejected.

For what it's worth, I think this is the kind of player we should 100% be looking at. If we can get a deal over the line for around £25M, I think it would be a good signing. Obviously if they want more than that, the risk is too high for us.

But most on here were outraged at the idea of £35M for Gordon who is also raw and hasn't proven anything yet. We can't have it both ways.

Good player. But a large fee for someone who had serious injury issues before last season and would be competing directly with Alli and possibly Gordon.

But at least he’s young and talented with decent upside. I suppose that’s a move in the right direction at least.

Think there’s better value to be had out there but let’s see who actually signs.

At least Gordon has proved and established himself in the Premier League. This dude isn't even a starter for Wolves and those goals and stats are from his loan period with Sheffield Utd last term. So yes. Over-priced for me anyway.

The proof will be in the pudding – you are never going to please every fan with every signing. Imo, he looks decent for one so young. Good numbers and games played.

£20M is pretty standard for decent prospect these days. I mean, look what that lot just got for Williams.

I'm with Steve #9, I'd rather have a couple of prospects we can watch develop than pay one 28-30 something looking for a last payday with no chance of a sell-on fee. At least a couple of prospects may come good and go on to be top players or we recoup some money if they don't.

No more big wages for mercenaries looking to suck this club dry!!!

For me, it's over the top if this price is correct, in view of his recent fitness and form.

Look elsewhere but how far this has gone and how much Thelwell is involved, who knows???

Paul, his fitness and form has been excellent! We seem to be linked with players with a general lack of injuries, good.

I doubt that we will increase the offer, but more than likely we offered 5p down, instalments over 20 years. We'll wring our hands, plead poverty, suggest a loan deal, offer a bit more up front as a ”final offer” and it'll either be accepted or we walk. They'll be left with one pissed-off player, we pursue other targets.

I see Nathan Broadhead is on the plane to the US. This could be good. We are all talking about value in players from down the leagues, this lad has had a good season – 10 goals in 20 appearances – with an injury too or could've been more

The Sunderland fans love him!! Not saying he's the answer but can he be any worse than Rondon??

I'd rather see him coming off the bench... How many successful loans do you have to have before you're given your shot??

David, I agree, I am desperate for us to get Broja, as I think they will play 3-5-2 next season so we need another quality striker. He can play wider also. Dennis is my second choice for similar reasons.

Rondon should be moved on to MLS or the Middle East if possible (he likes going where the money is) and I would be really happy for us to have Broadhead and Dobbin getting minutes as well, instead of Rondon, who offers very little.

Why is Kenwright taking so long get his fat arms down the back of the couch? For god's sake, tip the couch up and slash the black liner – probably the Arteta money and the 1995 FA Cup Final money are there for his pension.

If anyone knows the spot where the manager's office was at Bellefield, you can bet your bottom dollar the ginger Scot has squirrelled some away.

“Class player, works his socks off, probably a No 10 but versatile, creates chances, scores, can do it in the Premier League. I love him. For the sake of balance, he sometimes overdoes it and tries the wonder stuff too often.”

“Our best player by a mile last season, many said the best in the league. Worth buying.”

The thoughts of my two Blades sons-in-law.

Championship players are no longer cheap.

Benhrama, Bowen, Eze, Watkins, Maupay were all top performers in the Championship and their fees were between £20-30million. Some proved worth it, other less so.

Gibbs-White was one of the top performers in the Championship last season and is owned by a Premier League team with no pressure to sell. So I'm not surprised they're asking top dollar.

Should we spend it? Unsure. I like the look of the player, but probably there are better-value options available.

Could we not get Wolves to swap him for Moise Kean? Or maybe Wolves could do with a bit of Michael Keane in part-exchange? They can take Gomes too to provide boot cleaning duties for Neves and Moutinho.

I've been waiting for this report to pop up, Peter, and it does seem that a lot of people rate this kid. Forest also being interested is quite significant, I think. I see they've just spent £17 million on Neco Williams and I think we have just lost an equal player for nada!

£25M including add-ons. £5M up front, £5M when we win the Premier League, £10M for the Champion League win and another £5M if we do both at the same time.

Can't understand why they would turn it down. :)

David 21,

"No more big wages for mercenaries looking to suck this club dry!!!"

We just signed one — £120,000 a week, thirty soon, just got his team relegated – to a 4-year contract.

That ticks my mercenary book. Next!!!

Paul, think there's close to zero chance we're paying him £120k. Most supposed ITKs say it's somewhere between £75-90k which is not that much more than Godfrey and Keane.

He very possibly had a few offers with similar financial packages but chose us. Not sure he's more of a mercenary than any other footballer. So long as he plays well, I'm not bothered.

Paul @ 32.

Maybe check his stats and standings on his defensive qualities for last season and do some research before writing him off.

Cheers, Pete #28. Straight from the source.

Are we gonna try and sign any players to replace some of the goals and creativity lost over the last 12 months?

Richarlison, Sigurdsson, James and to some extent the goals of Townsend (at least he was willing to have a shot) all gone.

That's my worry, Jim.

Apart from Calvert-Lewin, who had an injury ravaged season and who has been patchy at scoring, we have no-one who is going to score 5+ goals a season.

Football is an easy game. You need to stop the ball going in, and you've got to score. We don't have a goalscorer, and are too charitable as a team.

I like Frank, but it's a results-based industry. A pile of defeats and he will be out on his ear. So he's got to address the goals column asap and a defensive midfielder; otherwise, a tough season awaits.

Rumours that we're going back in with a second bid. Not sure how I feel if that's true. He's a good player but not much better than Eze who cost £16M or Olise who cost only £9M. Even Bowen and Maddison didn't cost more than £20M and yet reportedly we are considering upping our bid of £25M?

Finding better value has to be more of a priority. Failure to do that is very much part of what got us here.

Yes, it's going to be hard and expensive buying a young talent from a Premier League club who don't need to sell. Although he's made his name in the Championship, he's not a Championship player.

For goals, I'd rather we signed a versatile wing-forward anyway, especially one who can play wide right. Ideally left-footed for balance.

The main question surely is are we willing to gamble £25M+ for what is undoubtedly a good young player, for a position we've already got covered, when we desperately need a goal scorer and a couple of midfield players?

There are other cheaper options out there if we really need that type of player.

Harry Winks is beginning to look more attractive by the minute!

Sam, yes, I agree there is better value to be had but Thelwell obviously rates the guy and this is what we employed him for. I think he'd be a good signing.

Robert, as much as I would like to see another winger come in, I just wonder if we are moving away from that formation? The signs are there that we are going to go 3-5-2, in which case, where is the space for an out-and-out winger?

I also wonder, if that is the case, where we will play Gordon? I hope that another striker is coming in to play with Calvert-Lewin.

Morgan Gibbs-White was part of the World Cup winning England Under-17s group – with Phil Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Conor Gallagher, Emile Smith-Rowe, Jason Sancho (before Dortmund withdrew him), and our own Lewis Gibson and Billy Crellin.

Last season saw the real emergence of Gallagher and Smith-Rowe – from promising squad players and junior internationals to leading squad players and full internationals.

Gibbs-White is on that same trajectory, and whether it as at Wolves or elsewhere, he is a significant talent with high-energy levels, great athleticism, two good feet, excellent ball-carrying skills and a real ambition to influence games.

£25 million is a lot of money but his profile is very good. I am amazed Wolves have not given him more chances over the last 3 years. I'd love to see him here.

Andrew, where do you think he would play? Given that Gordon will presumably be a starter and I know you're an Alli fan. Could he play on the right or as one of the box-to-box central midfielders?

Not sure the defensive side to his game is his strongest. Always keen to bag good young talents but I'm not sure I see the fit currently.

I assume he'd be box-to-box or in the Dele position.

Given the choice, I'd probably rather take Morgan Gibbs-White and lose Dele – at least the former is young and energetic. He was superb at Sheffield Utd last season, rated as one of the best in the Championshi[, and he's exactly the sort of profile of player we should be looking at.

Having said that, I really don't think Wolves want to sell to us unless he tells them he won't sign a new contract, and even then, I think we'd end up paying too much (as usual). If we were still playing at being the money-bags club, we'd sign him.

He doesn't represent value at £20 million plus add-ons, despite his potential; therefore, to consider upping the bid will show that we never learn.

Paul @32,

I see your point mate. I don't class him as a mercenary though. He's been at Burnley a long time. I'd class him more as an experienced pro.

Yes, Burnley got relegated but to blame him is harsh lad. His stats are so much better than any centre-half we have at the moment so I'm hoping it's an improvement on what we have. I hope he can be a kind of Distin signing. I don't think he will miss many games (à la Mina). I don't think he's just coming for a payday (à la Rondon).

We've got to have some experience at the back if we are going to have Patterson and Mykolenko playing. Godfrey will play more this season. I'd rather have him in there than Michael melting Keane.

No thanks. If we can only afford 1 or 2 players, they need to be first-team ready and better than what we already have.

Absolutely useless recruitment and scouting network.

If it has been knocked back, with that price, then surely we can afford Rabiot, who has a less value??

Gibbs-White'll be here within a couple of weeks. ;-)

Sam (43),

I'm not sure where he would fit in, as I am not sure whether Lampard is looking to build his squad around one fixed formation, or to be a bit more fluid depending on the opposition etc.

But one thing I will say about Gibbs-White is that he can inject pace at transition – both on the ball and in terms of looking to pass early.

As you know, I think Alli is brilliant at finding pockets of space that cause defenders problems - and I think Gibbs-White has a similar ability. I want players in our side who can get into advanced positions and show intent - and cause the opposition problems.

I hoped Demarai Gray would do more of that last season, but he consistently held on to the ball too long and ran down blind alleys, taking way too many touches.

I think a player like Gibbs-White can end up helping other players – especially Gray, Iwobi and Anthony Gordon – to have better options in and out of possession, and become more productive because of that.

Who knows if it will pan out, but a young and dynamic player like Gibbs-White could be a surprisingly valuable part of the Lampard rebuild. And it's fairly likely that Gibbs-White would look to Lampard as a good manager to learn under (in terms of his own personal development).

I already speculated with you about maybe Lampard playing a sort of 3-4-2-1 – consisting of 3 centre-backs, a "midfield" 4 made up of two advanced wing-backs, one deep-sitting midfielder and one classic central midfielder – two floating No 10s and a centre-forward. In such a system, Gibbs-White could be the classic centre-mid (which we seriously lack) - or one of the two advanced No 10s.

But whatever the system Lampard chooses, I suspect Gibbs-White will be a good acquisition, and that he can be a £50 million player and full international by this time next year if he can continue to come good on his ability. I certainly don't think there's much between him and Conor Gallagher.

The thing about Gibbs-White, he was excellent last season for Sheffield Utd, and the fee is £25M+. But he's not a Championship player, he's valued by his Premier League club. I believe if we sign him, Frank won't go for Gallagher.

Thanks, Andrew. I agree with most of that.

Though I don't know how suitable he is for the ‘classic midfielder' role. Is he good enough defensively? Maybe. But, if not, I wonder if a Number 10 is a big enough priority to merit £30M spending?

Always good to have young players with potential.

Steve #41 as you say it is very hard to fathom who goes where in a 3-5-2 if that is the plan.

Gibbs-White or Alli would play the attacking midfield role but that then raises questions as to where Gordon and Gray fit in.

Since we (currently) only have one striker, it will presumably be more like 3-4-3 / 5-2-2-1 (ie, as per Wolves under Nuno Santos and Spurs under Conte). That suits Gordon and Gray (as wingers / forwards) but not Gibbs-White or Alli.

If we had loads of money and could just buy Broja and Gibbs-White and a few others, it wouldn't matter so much. They're both really good young players with pace, physicality and goals.

But last time we bought a bunch of players without thinking through where they would all play, it set us back about 5 years.

Everything I've seen, which is admittedly just a few Championship games, suggests he can play out wide, as well as through the middle.

So he could well be a replacement for Richarlison, giving a potential front 3 of Calvert-Lewin, Gordon and Gibbs-White with Gray and Dobbin as competition.

He also has the potential to play through the middle, competing with Iwobi and Dele.

If anything, it gives us options. He can pass, can score, and has pace. I think there is always room for a player with such attributes.

I think we will probably alter between formations this season – pragmatic and defensive away and at the top teams, and attempt to be a little more adventurous in other games.

I also hope that Dele can make some surprising return, if he could be just 75% of what he was 3 years ago, we'd have a player.

One player who definitely can operate wide is Keane Lewis-Potter. Similar stats to Gibbs-White and a bit younger and cheaper than our alleged rebuffed bid, too. Brentford could have a couple of young British stars in him and Hickey.

Maybe Lewis-Potter is a bit too similar to Gordon for us to have made it work.

I think so, Robert, Gibbs-White will offer a bit more robustness to the team – threat whilst retaining some toughness and tenacity. Keane Lewis-Potter has probably been assured of being a first-choice starter at Brentford and will view the move as being good for his development.

Tony,

Do you think Gibbs-White will bring tenacity?

I haven't watched a lot of him but the stats suggest the defensive side of his game is somewhat lacking. Especially compared to someone like Richarlison who was near the top in the league for forwards defensively.

A good playmaker for sure and scored some goals last season, which we need; though I wonder how many goals someone like Iwobi would score in the Championship playing 35 games as a second striker in a decent team? 7 or 8?

I'm not against signing Gibbs-White but have some concerns, especially at £25-30M. Always happy to acquire dynamic young players but not sure he should be costing that much more than Lewis-Potter. Hopefully the fee will be nearer £20M with a few add-ons.

I hope Newcastle don't get Ektite. I like the look of him.

Sam,

From the reports I have read and seen of him, he has the ability to press strongly and just okay defensive stats including some surprising aerial duel stats for an attacking midfielder/wide player. Sheffield started him a few times as a central midfielder.

From these reports, I think he can try to do some of the necessary work that Richarlison did. It's a very hard act to follow with regard to contributing to the team, it's possible he has the raw ability and can be coached to be better at it. It's likely part of the reason we are going in quite hard for him.

If Everton are looking for someone to act as a 3rd striker, instead of Rondon, I would suggest they take a look at El Bilal Toure, who plays for Stade de Reims in the French top division.

He's 20. Fast, determined, poised, strong and plenty of bottle – he takes the penalties. Two footed. Played 60 times for them already.

A full international with Mali and has scored 4 goals in 13 appearances for them. This lad will only get better and I fancy we could get him for around £10M.

Having him, Calvert-Lewin and Broja means goals. He plays centre-forward but can play right-wing too. Deffo worth a look.

He plays at a high level already. In 60 odd games he's scored 11 goals with 5 assists – by 20 that's good going.

Get him on loan with a view to buy if cash is that short – which, let's face it, it is.

Jack, I saw some reports a couple of weeks ago that we were interested in him. Nothing more recently.

Broja's price tag has risen to a level that makes him seem doubtful for us. Anyway he has joined Chelsea on their US tour and appears to be in their plans.

This is what it comes down to, Mike. Price tag and availability.

Wild guess of course but I doubt we will spend more than £30m in total - unless DCL is sold (which looks unlikely now).

It could be much less. After all we only spent £1.7m this time last year.

There are some excellent players moving for very affordable fees (or for developmental loans) - but still plenty left.

Maybe it will come down to the wire.

Like lots of others, I’m confused about the ‘plan’ here. Frank didn’t sign both Dele and VDB in January to play just one of them, so one of his systems is clearly with at least 2 x AMs in it.

Maybe we’ll see a really swashbuckling 4-3-3

Pickford
Patterson Tarkowski Godfrey Mykolenko
Gallagher Alli Gibbs-White
Gray DCL Gordon

Doucoure or Iwobi could slot in if we’re not lucky enough to get both, or for energy from the bench. If that front 6 all fire we’d have a hell of a ride. Could we score more than the system concedes? Maybe with confidence.

When we need to be a bit more conservative (protecting a lead) drop to a 5-3-2 with maybe;

Pickford
Patterson Holgate Tarkowski Godfrey Mykolenko
Gallagher Allan Gibbs-White
DCL Rondon

Two big men up top to take a long ball and hold it until the fullbacks and AMs get up too.

Of course, i’d much rather we replaced Allan and Rondon with a top class DCM and Striker, but trying to at least be a little realistic here. Theres hope somewhere.

Jack @59. We were actually linked with him back in June but its gone quiet since. Link

Gary, I can't work it out either, the upcoming games will give us a clue.

Have a look at this statement when he was manager of Derby County:

“It (4-3-3) would be my preferred system, without a doubt, but I want us to be flexible. I don't want it to be set in stone," said Lampard.

"It is important to look at the attributes of the players because to play 4-3-3 without wingers would be ridiculous."

Then, this report from his Chelsea stint:

“Throughout his time at Chelsea, Lampard shifted between a 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. The 4-3-3 always appeared to be his preference, for perhaps greater midfield presence in build-up phases and defensive transitions. The lineup saw some significant changes between year one and year two, most notably at goalkeeper, left-back and defensive midfield.”

The back three seems generally alien to Frank's previous preferences, but I think Thelwell is an advocate of it so, that's it, I'm back to square one. I'd like us to be playing a back four and shifting between these two formations as necessary.

I'd like to see a fit and ready Dele Alli in the no10 position of a 4-2-3-1. Then when we are expecting to have to defend more and some away games a 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 with a strengthened midfield three.

Tony, I hope you're right. I have a great fondness for quality sides playing 5 / 3 man defences (especially Dortmund with Sammer as sweeper).

But we've pretty much always looked awful with this formation.

4-2-3-1 / 4-3-3 suits us better.

4-2-3-1 also suits Alli as you say. There's no point buying a player for a specialist role in a particular formation – and then playing a different formation.

OK, ready for an out-of-the-box idea?

Left-footed right winger on a free transfer, only 27, great pace, excellent passer, loves to attack off the dribble, couldn't score in a whorehouse, once a brilliant young talent who has disappointed, undoubtedly looking to resurrect his stalled career before the World Cup.

A similar situation to Dele Alli.

Adnan Januzaj.

No, not a likely game-changer, but a low-cost option who could fill the hole left by Townsend.

Thoughts?

Tricky indeed to work out the plan.

If we are to take supposed targets into consideration, it seems after Tarkowski we are looking for:

A versatile forward who can play wing and/or striker. Like Dennis, Broja, Anjorin, Bilal Toure...

An attacking central midfielder who will provide energy and goals/assist. Like Gallagher, Morgan Gibbs-White, Mattheus Nunes...

A Number 6 that can distribute the ball decently. Like Harry Winks, Tyler Adams, Billy Gilmour, Andre Onana…

I'm sure these players could fit a number of systems but it does feel like a 4-3-3 would make sense of them:

Pickford
Patterson Tarkowski Mina Mykolenko
Gibbs-White Winks Doucouré
Dennis Calvert-Lewin Gordon

Is that what Frank Lampard is aiming at? If so, then Patterson will have to hit the ground running defensively, especially as Coleman is now set to miss the start of the season.

I think we may yet spend a decent amount of money and wouldn't be surprised to see us spend £60M, though that doesn't get you so far… which is why at least one of these positions will probably have to be filled with a loan or another freebie.

So he's not considered good enough to be in and around the average Wolves first team last season, with them preferring to send him on loan to a Championship club; now he's back, they have no interest in keeping him?

Not for me.

I saw quite a bit of him last season – my step-dad is a Sheffield Utd fan and he looked excellent as an energetic No 8 or No10. Exactly what we need. It all depends on how much money we actually have.

I doubt we'll shift any of the deadwood so we have to be creative. I pretty much agree with Sam with regards to targets – I think if our defenders have a better injury record, then Patterson, Tarkowski, Mina and Mykolenko should do a job with Coleman and Godfrey in reserve.

Midfield needs an overhaul. We need a defensive midfielder, another box-to-box, a right-winger and another forward. Gibbs-White can also play on the wing but it's not his strongest position.

Broja would be good competition for, or an understudy to Dom and is a better age than Dennis.

Gallagher and Nunes seem out of our price range at the minute unless a loan-to-buy can be pulled off.

All-in-all, I have no clue who we'll get or how much we've got to spend and we've not got a lot of time to get players in. If we get Gibbs-White and Broja, we would've done well.

I've been told this is all rubbish and no bids have been made and that we have no interest.

Been told by who, Tony?

Someone senior at the club. We are interested in Gallagher but don't expect to get him.

Tony, it's at this point it dawns on us all (again) how pointless it is to comment on the speculation. Still, what else would we do in the close season?

It's a no from me also.

I saw a fair bit of Sheffield Utd last season and wasn't impressed with Gibbs-White. A combination of running down blind alleys, not getting his head up, and losing possession in bad areas to get countered on, far outweigh the attacking positives – and all this in the Championship.

I fear he would find the step up to the Premier League would reduce those positives and exacerbate the negatives. A view apparently shared by Wolves if they're prepared to do a deal.

There's got to be better and cheaper ways of replacing and bettering Richarlison's non-penalty goal return.

One of them isn't Broja, by the way (certainly not for the money Chelsea would demand). He tailed off badly second half of last season.

By the way, the £50M for Richarlison is not looking too shabby given the fees Sterling and Raphinha have gone for. I know it won't curry favour on this site, but credit where it's due (especially as it seems to have saved our bacon).

Sam,

The coaching staff will be assessing Patterson closely, I'm really looking forward to seeing how he gets on in these preseason games, especially defensively.

Seamus, Leighton and Ashley Cole are not bad mentors to have on tap! From the little we have seen of him, I can see why the scouts insisted on signing him, he looks the real deal.

Still, as with the reported Gibbs-White fee, we overpay for players who still need a fair bit of elite coaching and development to justify the hefty price tag.

Even so, it's a very good sign that we are signing (and trying to sign) younger players with bags of potential and have the setup in place to improve them.

Robert, I refuse to believe this is all pointless. The rest of life on planet Earth appears to be, but this? No!

It is the Blue Life! Watch the enamel on your teeth, everyone.

Thank you, Dale. I was weak there for a moment. I have slapped myself repeatedly around the face and once more believe in all things blue.

The Arteta money will be found, Riquelme will sign, and Michael Branch will have his breakthrough season.

Besides, what else are we going to do? Watch Novak win Wimbledon? F1? Ladies Euros? Don't think so...

Far more entertaining rabbiting on about Everton's unknown formations, unknown signings, unknown financial well-being, unknown enforced restrictions, unknown future ownership, unknown bidders for it, and other unknowns that we don't know about.

I'll make an exception for the James Webb Space Telescope.

Tony (78), yes great entertainment, especially how good, bad or indifferent Gibbs- White is, I have never seen him play, never heard of him until this transfer debate started, so it will be interesting to see what sort of player he turns out to be if we eventually sign him!!

Good man, Robert! To be honest, I think the rest of us need you, Sam Hoare and Mike Gaynes in good form so we can make sense of it all.

Sorry if I left any other uncompensated scouts out there. Keep it going, one month away.

Dale, thanks, but Robert and Sam are the gods of scouting on TW. I'm unworthy of mention in their company.

Mike, contrary to what may be common belief, I do read TW thoroughly and I wouldn't have included you if you didn't deserve it. I appreciate your reverence for that dynamic duo but you have definitely contributed enough to be mentioned along with them.

Tony (78),

You should watch the Women's Euros, some really decent football being played. I watched England beat Norway a few nights back – if we had a central midfielder with the skill, composure and ability of Keira Walsh, then I'd be delighted.

Tony, Same here. By the way, after my own calculations, the 7,500 light-year distance to the James Webb pictured nebulae is equal to our club's distance to the Premier League Top 6!

Soren, that nebula going is going to lend its name to our new midfield 3 ….”The Pillars of Creation”

Andrew, I haven’t got into it this time, but I did watch a few games in the World Cup a couple of years ago and enjoyed it, especially watching Fran Kirby.

Wolves know how easy it is to rip off Everton. Apparently we are also interested in Adama Traore.

Holding out for a few more million for an academy player that they have invested time and money into, one that they would be doing what we are doing with Anthony Gordon if he was any good instead of letting him go.

Why didn't a Premier League club snap him up on loan last season? Why isn't anybody else showing any real interest in him?

We can also snap up Traore for a reported £10 million or so, a player that is unplayable once in every 38 games… Bolasie, anyone?

Wolves could end up with over £35 million if all of this is true and go and snap up a real talent from a lower league or abroad for a third of the money. This has got "typical Everton" written all over it.

Dale and Mike, thank you for your kind words. I (rather lamely) showed them to my wife so she understands the many hours spent on such pursuits are appreciated by some, if not her!

Mike @66. Januzaj… Is that the ex-United player?

27 – I thought he was about 43 by now. What age did he make his debut? – 9??? I thought he was well older than that.

Not a good player in my opinion. Swerve him.

I'd definitely support Sam and Robert being hired by the club to take over the transfer dealings of Everton FC – I am sure they'd do a better job. I'd add Tommy Carter to that list too.

We are such a strange team eh? How do we get it so wrong?

Very kind, Steve # 89.

In reality, I expect Everton are well aware of and keeping reports on all the players I pointlessly keep track of — and more besides.

For example, not many of us were following 16-year-old Iman Jagne in the Swedish league until reports emerged that we were close to signing him. He's been in our academy for a couple of years now.

It is not the scouting that fails. The problem is the strategy (or lack of it) around recruitment.

To put it another way, they know about all the players — they just don't properly think through the process of building the squad for a variety of reasons.

So we are suddenly linked with a stream of Wolves players. Good Championship player and overpriced Gibbs-White, often injured and unpredictable Traore, maybe ex-red Cody next.

Either lazy journalism or lazy scouting.

If the intention is for us to keep Calvert-Lewin, then I genuinely don't understand the requirement to sign Broja who is a central striker (or Number 9 as people now call it).

I cannot see a system in which both of them can play together as it would leave our already weak midfield completely overrun.

Surely the priority has to be, if Calvert-Lewin is staying, bring in players who will complement him so that we can play to his strengths.

Prior to Ancelotti, we saw a Calvert-Lewin that put in an incredible shift, chasing the ball all around the pitch but not scoring any goals.

Following Ancelotti, we saw him evolve his game into a penalty-box striker and play to his obvious strength which is attacking the ball for single-touch finishing. He still offers hold-up play along the forward line.

However, with this in mind, for me, it is glaringly obvious that we need some players who can cross a ball. We have nobody currently. So I would at least attempt to sign somebody with a track record somewhere of assisting with crosses.

I'd also try and identify a forward player who can be the legs up top. I'm talking about a player who will really take it to the opposition with some physicality and pressure. Somebody like Che Adams at Southampton is a good example, although not him as he will now be too expensive. But that type of player who I think can be had at a decent price from somewhere.

Tommy, Broja does a lot of his best work running the channels, albeit as a striker / forward rather than as a winger. He could be a lone striker in a fluid front 3 or complement a box-based striker like Calvert-Lewin as a duo (a 4-4-2 diamond or a 3-5-2 for example)

However, that striker duo raises questions about how you fit Gordon, Gray, Alli and others into the first XI. Broja and Calvert-Lewin wouldn't work in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 for example.

We do need better cover for Calvert-Lewin than Rondon and Simms, but it doesn't need to be a showpiece signing.

The first XI would benefit more from a quality specialist holding midfielder and, as you suggest, a creator – for me ideally a left-footed right-winger / playmaker type to create the chances and score a few (like Rodriguez but able to run around a bit).

That's where we should spend what little money we appear to have.

Robert #93, I suggested in my post #66 a left-footed right winger who can create and run around a lot. A tremendous talent who has consistently underperformed, therefore is available on a low-risk free transfer at a reasonable salary. And who despite his inconsistency is a lot more productive than Adama Traore.

What are your thoughts on Januzaj?

Januzaj has one major thing on his favour, Mike, he's out of contract.

Let's be honest, he's not top drawer and averages a goal or assist every 5 games. Last season he got 3 goals and no assists in 33 games for Sociedad.

He's not exactly fast or 'all action' either.

However, we might well be in beggars can't be choosers territory and he does fit the bill in terms of talent / specialist position and cost.

It might be worth doing if it means we can spend more on other areas like centre mid and deputy for Calvert-Lewin.

Januszaj is a sharp and instant No for me.

Young(er). Hungry. Hard working players. He’s shown odd flashes of talent but the hunger and desire has never been there from him.

Don’t want to get lumbered with any of these supposed freebie bargain cast offs. He’ll be on a huge wage. And unless they join and you more or less know exactly what you’re going to get - like Townsend and Tarkowski - then this is too much of a stretch into gambling territory.

I’d rather gamble on somebody from the championship. And if we don’t have the money to do that, then I’d rather gamble with the squad we already have.

I’ve seen Dwight McNeil mentioned lots of times on here as linked to us. I’ve never been to sold on the idea. He seems a busy enough player with decent quality but his lack of goals and assists concern me. Albeit for a team that doesn’t score many goals.

However his crossing stays over the last 3 years are right up there. And his tackling stats last season were also very good.

If he can be acquired for less than the Gibbs-White money then I’d be keen we pursue this. We could even offload a dud onto them as part of the deal. A return for a Michael Keane would Surely make a sensible bigger in this deal and if we value Keane at £5m then you can knock that off the price tag.

Keane would probably be immense in the championship for them. He could rebuild his confidence and reputation and the club he made his name at.

Just over 3 weeks to go to start of the new season and we still have a few deadwood needing to get rid, we still haven't sorted our non-existent midfield, we still haven't replaced Richarlison, we still don't know who will be our first-choice right-back, we still haven't sorted central defense regarding the future of Keane, Mina and Holgate, we are still in the dark about a takeover, and we still don't know if there is any money available for new recruits at all!

We are still in limbo!

Robert #95, that was my thought. He'd fill the role left by Townsend. We don't have anybody who can do that, and we can't afford to buy anybody who can.

Tommy #96, valuing Keane at £5m would be financial insanity -- he's worth at least £15m -- but aside from that, best of luck convincing Keane to accept a transfer down to the Championship. No way in hell he would ever go for that. No way.

Yep it's a worry Soren. Unable to sell is biggest concern for me, ie Gomes, Rondon, Mina, Allan, Gbamin, Keane.

@98

Mike. If it was explained to him that he was not going to play this season, which he may well not do, then he'll realise he needs to move on.

I think he'd go back to Burnley for the sentiment, to rebuild his career and in the almost certainty that they'll be getting promotion next season. As long as his wages are covered, then I don't think it's that unrealistic at all.

Tommy, good luck coming up with a way to "explain" that.

I know you think he sucks (£5 million???!!), but nobody who started 31 of 38 games in the Premier League last season will accept that he needs to "rebuild" his career in a lower league rather than stay and fight for his place. Keane will never, ever do that. At 29? With three years left on his contract? Like I said, no way in hell.

Besides, it's obvious that he IS going to play... unless Mina stays here and stays healthy... and Godfrey develops as hoped... and Holgate doesn't revert to his previous Holgate. If all those things all happen, great. I ain't holding my breath.

Plus we need five centre-backs. With Branthwaite gone, that's what we have.

@ Steve 89

Thanks Steve. Appreciated.

I think modern scouting has become far too rigid, far too statistics reliant (but statistics must absolutely play a part) and there is often far too much emphasis on physical attributes.

And when I say the statistics are relied upon too much - it is often for physical attributes. Ask yourself this - is the average player in League One with limited specialist elite coaching, fitness work or the associated facilities going to operating at anywhere near their physical capability week in week out? The answer is clearly No. But lots of elite clubs will absolutely use statistical based analysis in a way that will remove any player that does not meet their elite demands with physical output and certain physical attributes.

Doesn’t matter if the guy can play or not - or if he is technically brilliant. Or if he has an outstanding football brain and tactical intelligence. Because those things can’t be so easily measured.

The subjectivity and specialism of scouting has been removed from the Elite level of the game. As such there are talented players who are up fro grabs who will end up making two or three moves up the ladder - when their ability means they could move straight to Premier League Level and develop there. This applies to lower division football in England as well as the other perceived ‘lesser’ leagues around Europe.

Outside of Europe there exists problems with work permits on non international capped players meaning the South American market is often dominated by Portuguese, Spanish and often Dutch Clubs.

Central and West African players are often developed through France.

These are huge continents full of outstanding football talent. And a club like Everton should be perfectly positioned to watch such players do 12 months in a European league and then commit.

Just to balance out the gloom and doom, Goodison News reports we are considering a move for Edin Dzeko as an "upgrade" on Rondon. At 36 Dzeko is only 4 years older than Rondon, so one for the future. Moshiri must be pushing the boat out. The future starts here.

The Athletic this morning saying that Broja is our number 1 forward target, with a bud not yet submitted for MGW and Aster Vrancks a genuine target. Interesting. All exciting targets I’d say.

Broja is definitely more than a traditional number 9 and drifted out wide a lot for Southampton last season. He’s quick and good on the ball. I think he could replicate the style Richarlison brought to us, though not as many goals yet.

MGW we’ve spoken about on here. Good player. Great creator and dynamic. Could play as an 8 or a right winger, probably best suited to playing as a 10.

Vrancks is younger but had a good season in Bundesliga. Dynamic ball winner in the middle, quick around the pitch and bags the odd goal. Not a great distributor though, so the opposite profile to Harry Winks which is interesting if he really was a serious target. Vrancks was on the golden boy list this year for best young talents in Europe. Not sure he’d be a starter for us immediately.

File under steaming horseshit. We are linked with Dzeko every summer, then, as if by magic, his agent earns a lucrative contract extension for him.

Sam, Vrankx is an interesting one, very young still but has some experience under his belt. From the Bundesliga site.

Plays a bit like: Axel Witsel

A holding player in his early days, Vranckx possesses the guile, industry and tenacity of Borussia Dortmund and Belgium midfielder Axel Witsel, but brings a bit more to the table in an attacking sense. If Wolfsburg can tap into his budding attributes as the club did so successfully with Kevin De Bruyne in 2014/15, the Auto City Club could have a very handy box-to-box midfielder on their hands

His agent goes on to say he chose Wolfsburg for some stability in his development, so may be reluctant to move? Rotation with Allan or playing alongside this signing could work well for him and us.

Broja, The fact that the Athletic has been told he is our no1 target could be a pointer that we are becoming more confident of signing him and Frank has persuaded the player.

MGW, hard act to follow Richie, if he comes I hope he is given some breathing space to perform.

All three players are young hungry and full of athleticism, the recruitment direction mood music is good. If we can seal some deals we will become a faster, more dynamic and aggressive side.

Good post, Tommy,

I watch a lot of EFL games as that's where my nephew plays. He, like so many other young players, left the cosseted world of the Premier League U23s to drop down to play in the tough uncompromising world of the EFL. Most have aspirations of moving up the leagues once they've gotten stronger, fitter and a bit more savvy.

I'm sure that our scouting system extensively covers the lower leagues but I'm surprised that we don't consider more of these young players. Personally, I feel that lads who are playing well (often for 46+ games a season), in the physically demanding Football Leagues are a better bet than taking similar aged players from Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands.

Sam, great post until that last sentence, then everything thats wrong with our mentality in 9-10 words.

We've tried signing “ready” players. Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Walcott, Schniederlin….and dozens of others – all done nothing to improve us as a club. Indeed, the models done the opposite of improve and is simply unsustainable.

We need these kind of players, ideally even before they've broken through and played the best part of a full season in one of Europe's top leagues. We need to be like Dortmund, Frankfurt, Lille, Leverkusen, Monaco, RB Leipzig etc – buy them young, give them a platform, and sell them high.

Sure, we need to plug big gaps with experience too (especially in central midfield right now) but, if we can't get that at the right price, we have to take some risks like this.

Totally agree Gary (106) our shot at buying readymade success was an unmitigated disaster. The model should be ripped apart and we should start again! Not just because our attempts with the other model were so undeniably bad but also because of FFP restrictions.

We have to buy cheap and move them on, blood them in and sell to make money. Do it well for 5-6 years we could potentially have a similar model to the teams you mentioned, all of whom can charge a premium for their players because everyone knows they produce good, well coached players with high potential. It is a model which will frustrate some on here but it's the only way to get us out of this mess.

I like the sound of Vrankx, he is Belgium's latest big prospect and if we don't buy him now will cost double in another season or so. I'd be delighted with Vrankx, MGW and Broja this window though I still feel we need a natural 6. I doubt we could afford Onana, I'm not sure I'd want him at the prices touted but Gilmour on loan surely should be feasible ? Frank loves him, he loves Frank and judging his performances last season for Norwich he is going to be nowhere near that Chelsea first team, Gallagher maybe.

If all of some of the above were to play out this summer I would accept a mid table finish with some signs of growth, our team would be very young and need time and (ahem, cough) patience from our loyal fans.

Gary, I’ve always been very vociferous in my desire to sign young, up and coming, hungry players. It makes sense both on and off the field. I very rarely want us to sign players 26 or over (though Tarkowski made sense to me given the need for consistent leadership at the back).

I’m very happy to sign players like Vrancks. We need to be braver.

Though I would say we’ve needed a mobile DMC since Gueye left. It’s a position (unlike some others) where we have no real options. For me it’s probably the main position that we need to sign someone who can hit the ground running. That may be Vrancks, or perhaps Onana or Sangare.

It seems Lampard wants to build a younger more dynamic squad and Thelwell has traditionally targeted younger players so hopefully the penny has finally dropped!

Sam, what about Gibbs-White and Sander Berge? They both played well last season for Sheff Utd.

Berge admittedly only hit form (after a long injury layoff) when playing a little further up the pitch. However, he is a talented, young and hungry player who can pick a pass and has an eye for a goal too. We could get him for anything north of £15M.

Apologies if I misread you, Sam. Just eager for young and hungry players, over those who think they’re doing us some kind of favour.

Enjoying all the speculation on this thread.

I would love us to get Onana, Broja and Gibbs-White but all three would probably cost us close to £100m, and I doubt if any of them are desperate to come here. Of the three, Gibbs-White seems the most likely.

Gallagher and Zinchenko – both of whom, again, I love being linked to - are absolute non-starters as targets for us, in my opinion.

Young hungry players with potential, the only way forward for us.

Unfortunately due to mismanagement over the years, I fear that young hungry players with potential will look at our situation and pass. I hope I am wrong and that Lampard has enough about him to encourage them to get on board.

Sorry and no offence meant but this 'young hungry player' phrase is beginning to grate. Maybe I'm getting old myself.

I understand the sentiment, of course we want players with development potential. But you also need to balance it with experience.

Paul Power wasn't young but was "hungry" and won the league title with us. The historically crocked Peter Reid and Andy Gray were hardly spring chickens.

I don't think we're becoming the Busby Babes or Fergie's Fledglings any time soon, so let's balance some of the promising young players we already have with a bit of wise heads around them.

All "hungry" to win football matches, regardless of age.

Gibbs-White has the potential to drive the team forward but will need a sitting player to make that work.

Andrew. All very well this name dropping and talks ongoing and links etc. What are the chances of getting any of these or is this just to keep the fans schtum until it all quietens down?

David Ornstein just posted that we are in talks with Burnley over Cornet. Other clubs interested but us looking most likely at the moment.

£17.5 million release clause, apparently.

Not gona blow our own trumpet but Cornet would definitely give us something different.

Danny @115. I've said this before. Power came into a squad littered with quality players, yours and my favourite ever, to name but one.

Anyway, I digress. I think what most of us are driving at is we need pace and goals in that midfield – something the current incumbents are not providing. Do you really want to see Gomes, Davies and Allan etc aided and abetted by the likes of Jesse "I'm only here for a 150 big ones a week" Lingard? I certainly don't.

I can't see Gbamin being part of Frank's plans so there's another one who looks like being jettisoned.

As others have pointed out, the RB Leipzig model has worked wonders for them. Buy relatively unknown young players and sell them on at a much higher price. Because, let's face it, we're not getting near them fuckers, or Man City and Chelsea, any time soon. That for me is the way for the club to move forward. Only my opinion.

We all (or most of us) know we should follow the RB Leipzig strategy but it looks like we can't or won't. That being said, if we land media favourite Cornet, it will benefit the squad.

However, for the third time of asking, we are not finding £12M strong, fast, unknown Belgians Germans and so on.

In a nutshell, Thelwell is exactly the same as the previous two. No contacts, no vision, no plan – just media lazy links that my lad could point out.

Please, someone tell me that's not his remit... but we all know, at this point, he's letting us down. Still, a bit of time left, of course...

Danny,

Paul Power was from a different era, a time before Sky when money was not the only thing that mattered to players, when most teams were composed of players from the UK and Ireland.

We have utterly failed with a strategy of buying players who were in their prime and ready to go.

We just have to try something else, play the long game and hope in 4 or 5 years that we have bridged the gap that currently exists with the Top 4.

I know it is another acquisition from a relegated club but Cornet's stats bear comparison with Richarlison last year so he looks a decent acquisition to the squad at a relatively cheap price of £17.5M.

Also, coming from Burnley, I can't imagine his wages are too high either.

Michael, I tend to agree. Cornet is fine and he did score a few goals last season from open play, which is appealing, but he's a bit up and down. i think we could aim for someone with a higher potential than him.

In other news, Spurs are buying Spence for similar money that we paid for Patterson. Not sure who will turn out better but one was the best right-back in the Championship last year and the other had barely featured at first team level; more over-paying by our esteemed Chairman!!