Season › 2023-24 › News Premier League announce radical changes to PL2 Michael Kenrick 25/07/2023 36comments | Jump to last The country's elite Category One Academy U21 sides will see radical changes this coming season that will combine the two existing divisions into a new Premier League 2 with 26 clubs. The changes will bring back end-of-season playoffs, this time involving the Top 16 sides. Promotion and relegation between the two divisions are eliminated, along with the traditional binary structure of teams playing each other home and away. In the new system, all 26 clubs with Category One academies they will initially be placed into five pots which will be determined by their performances in Premier League 2 over the past three seasons, with fixtures decided by a draw from those pots. Teams will only be able to play another team from their pot once, either home or away, and also three to five teams from all the other pots either home or away. Article continues below video content That will add up to 20 regular season games for each club, after which the PL2 table will rank the clubs from 1-26, with the Top 16 qualifying for a single-match elimination playoff. These playoffs will be determined by the league positions, with first facing 16th, second facing 15th, and so on, with the higher-ranked club playing at home. Explaining the reasons for the new system, the Premier League said: "The change came about after an extensive review of PDP competitions, which sought to enhance the transition of talented Academy players into senior football, and engaged various stakeholders, including football directors, Academy managers, first-team coaches and Academy players. "The removal of relegation introduces positive jeopardy; it supports clubs making development-first decisions, and minimises the impact of relegation on future groups of U21 players. "Also the experience of playoffs will open up to 16 teams rather than the four in Division 2 of previous seasons. "The new format will also give teams a greater breadth of fixtures, playing 20 different opponents, compared with only 13 in Division 1 and only 10 in Division 2. "The single division format also provides greater flexibility to add or decrease the number of fixtures in future seasons, dependent on the number of teams in the league, as well as access to additional development opportunities, including matches against senior teams and international opposition." Original report from The Mirror Reader Comments (36) Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer () Mark Andersson 1 Posted 25/07/2023 at 08:52:36 Sounds confusing, and no doubt favour the richer clubs as usual... Tony Abrahams 2 Posted 25/07/2023 at 09:26:43 I'm sure that bringing in a play off system will eventually lead to more competitive football, and it's also nice for players to play against different teams.The removal of relegation introduces positive jeopardy; and this might also help some of the younger players get a bit more game time, helping to fast forward their development. Alan J Thompson 3 Posted 25/07/2023 at 09:33:22 What is it with the Premier League that everything seems judged over the last three years from P&S limits and now U-21s. Is something similar being done for the other age levels, U-18s etc and if not, why not, and what of that European competition and Checkertrades(?) against senior lower league teams or are they being abandoned? Michael Kenrick 4 Posted 25/07/2023 at 09:42:12 I suppose you could see this as recognition of the oft-made claim (on here at least) that the Academy system is 'broken'. However, they've made changes before to the league structure, with no discernible improvement in the pathway to the Premier League proper for these talented youngsters.Apparently, these changes are being made to follow the 'Swiss model' which will be introduced in the Champions League from the next season after this one (2024-25). The main difference is playing a greater number of teams only once each season, until the playoffs at least. And playing fewer games overall unless you progress in the playoffs. How many games should they be playing, I wonder? Last season saw 43 in total – 26 in PL2, 7 in the Premier League Cup, 5 in Papa Johns EFL Trophy and 5 in the Premier League International Cup. Then there's "positive jeopardy". I'm still mulling over what the hell that might mean… Dave Abrahams 5 Posted 25/07/2023 at 09:56:30 Why don't they introduce a cup competition as well for the U21s if they haven't already got one, this would give them more games.Introduce four over-age players into the new league, this would get it closer to the old Central League structure which was a better system. Richard Duff 6 Posted 25/07/2023 at 10:14:11 Makes it easier for the soon to be "breakaway clubs" to go and join a Saudi established Super League (outside of UEFA jurisdiction) and remove their Academies from this structure. Good. Brian Harrison 7 Posted 25/07/2023 at 10:26:01 If the Premier League wanted to improve the pathway for academy players to get into the first team, then make it a rule that each club must have a least 4 academy players in the squad. I would also stipulate that, to qualify, an academy player would have to have spent 2 years at the club. Obviously the Premier Legue clubs wont agree to such radical changes as they wouldn't want to have such restrictions imposed on them. Remember when you could have only so many overseas players in your starting 11 for European games, that was ditched very quickly. Tony Abrahams 8 Posted 25/07/2023 at 10:46:46 If you can't beat them then join them maybe Richard. If the Saudis keep spending ridiculous amounts, I wonder what this will do for FFP, and P&S levels in Europe and the Premier League? Richard Duff 9 Posted 25/07/2023 at 13:08:14 Tony (8). Once, Italy paid the most for players and wages and all the top talent went there (Gullit, Van Basten, Maradona, Careca, Elkjear). Then the PL was formed and started throwing huge (at the time) money at superstar players (Zola, Bergkamp, Klinsmann) as well as mid range (Carbone, etc...) also rans, which pulled them out of Italy. The MLS have tried the "retirement home" route but it hasn't delivered or sustained the commercial targets, so never been a viable option for the younger and ambitious players.So, imagine if a new entity enters the equation with fabulous wealth opportunities for players, coaches, staff, the ability to trample over all previous commercial agreements and double the money, the ambition to be the one and only arena for the sport. Organised, with a regime that will be beholden to nobody, without any restrictions on structure, governance, fiscal prudence. No need to work with established associations in Europe and can bargain at the top table with Global entities or simply ignore them all and carry on anyway. Imagine if a world audience can sit at home and watch it all on TV.!Today it exists already.It's called LIV golf. But tomorrow that will almost certainly be football and the PL, Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga will all lose out. Tony Abrahams 10 Posted 25/07/2023 at 14:15:35 It doesn't sound like anyone is going to double their money, it sounds like they are going to at least quadruple their money, and with it being tax-free, they will also get away with losing 40%, Richard.I was getting told Jordan Henderson is on around £7.5 million a year. Take away 40% tax, and he loses £3 million, leaving him with around £4.5 million. Rumours are that he will pick up about £35 million per season - tax-free, by going to Saudi?I hate the way football in this country has gone. A lot of clubs that are struggling financially, with some even going out of business, would probably survive on the monthly salary, of a lot of premier league players now, so when the greed of the beast continues to grow, then the monster that has been created deserves to suffer imo? Richard Duff 11 Posted 25/07/2023 at 14:46:05 Indeed Tony, As I get older, I wonder about how the smaller clubs can survive even the next 5 years. There is going to be a big shake up and what we will certainly see is clubs going to the wall (Bury) and others receiving amazing investments (Wrexham) which will all change the landscape.By your calculations, every Jordan Henderson leaving the UK costs the taxpayer £3M a year. Be under no illusions, these players and their families will be flying in and out of Riyadh every week back to Europe to spend their dough and relax which raises the carbon footprint massively, but who cares! its only the Earth. Eventually, when the playing career is over, these players will come back and buy clubs (rather than manage them) which skews the whole thing again!! Anyway, at least we are unbeaten in our last 2! Michael Kenrick 12 Posted 25/07/2023 at 14:52:20 Dave @3, Maybe our posts crossed but just to reiterate, the U21s play in no less than 3 cup competitions:1) Premier League Cup, against other Academy teams2) Premier League International Cup, against European U21 teams3) EFL Trophy, against first-team sides from League One and League TwoThese competitions should be a decent test for any of the Academy teams. The EFL Trophy is perhaps the most significant test as they play against seasoned professionals from lower down the pyramid. As I've mentioned before, the Academy teams have not had much success in this competition so far… George Cumiskey 13 Posted 25/07/2023 at 15:03:39 Is that the same Jordan Henderson who wanted to stand for human rights and the LGBT community at the last world cup ? What a hypocrite ! Jim Lloyd 14 Posted 25/07/2023 at 15:11:59 Isn't he just,George! Well said mate. Dave Abrahams 15 Posted 25/07/2023 at 15:23:59 Michael (12). Michael I usually read all the posts in each thread before I post on each thread,you reply to me as being (3), but I'm (5), so I don't know if I missed your post, anyway you are correct there is enough cup competitions, don't know how I didn't realise that, I went to the final of one when Unsworth was in charge and another final on the night Arsenal beat Hull City in the FA cup final if I'n not mistaken so thanks Michael for putting me wise. Joe McMahon 16 Posted 25/07/2023 at 15:25:54 Not related to this thread, but nowhere to ask. So here goes.Was Vinny Samways a disaster at Everton or just in a average team? I'm asking as I just can't remember. Dave Abrahams 17 Posted 25/07/2023 at 15:42:57 Joe (16), I think Mike Walker signed Vinny Samways but he was sacked and Joe Royle took over, Joe didn't seem to fancy Samways and he didn't really get a chance under his management, I thought Vinny was a good footballer and great passer of a ball but he was allowed to go, I think he went abroad, maybe Seville,not sure if he came back to play in England again. Kieran Kinsella 18 Posted 25/07/2023 at 16:04:33 Joe/DaveHe went to Los Palmas in Spain then in the second division and after four years they were promoted to the top division. He played regularly then also before briefly joining Seville and then Walsall. Martin Reppion 19 Posted 25/07/2023 at 16:18:33 Vinny Sideways is a good quiz answer.The last player to score a trophy winning goal for Everton.Not Paul Rideout as most remember.Vinny's was in the Charity Shield.I think he then left before the season started. Kieran Kinsella 20 Posted 25/07/2023 at 16:38:50 MartinI forgot that. I'll tell you something else I forgot that is even more surprising: The MOTM for that charity shield was Earl Barrett. Not something you hear often. Joe McMahon 21 Posted 25/07/2023 at 16:40:10 Thanks for the updates on Samways guys, we do seem to get players from Spurs after they have peaked. I'm think Aaron Lennon also, although I did like Aaron. It's interesting that Dyche took him to Burnley twice after Everton Paul Tran 22 Posted 25/07/2023 at 16:49:44 Joe, I always thought Samways was a so-so player, certainly not the man to build a midfield around in the way Walker described him. The Spurs fans I knew weren't sorry to see him leave. But in a better team, you never know. I'm not sure a better Everton would have bought him. Ian Bennett 23 Posted 25/07/2023 at 18:09:00 As a club we could change the mould, and say our 9th sub position is for an academy player.You can only use 5 subs, and more often than not we either don't have 8 subs or we have two bloody goalkeepers.Be bold, and say to the graduates there is a pathway, perform and you'll might get on for the big time. Maybe just maybe, someone might surprise a coach by out performing where they thought they might be. Dave Abrahams 24 Posted 25/07/2023 at 18:28:44 Kieran (18), thanks Kieran for the Vinny Samways information, I think there should have been a stewards inquiry over Earl Barrett getting MOTM in that charity shield game! Danny O’Neill 25 Posted 25/07/2023 at 18:42:49 It will be interesting to see how these players get on in Saudi in terms of lifestyle.Here's a random one.I had the opportunity to go and serve in Saudi Arabia when in the Army given our country's lucrative defence contract with them. Some may not be aware, but we have a significant military and commercial presence there all based on defence contracts.House paid for, bills paid for, everything paid for, even an additional salary on top of my military one paid for by the Saudi Government that basically would have more than doubled my wages. Cleaner and personal driver provided. All tax free. I could have made a lot of money.The personal driver was because they would not allow my wife to drive herself, so she would have to be escorted and taken everywhere if permitted.Maybe it has changed? This was 2006.I turned it down out of principle. I ended up in southwest Wales and spent over 12 months of the next few years in Afghanistan. The Government gave me a modest tax bonus in return. And I mean modest.It's not always about the money. Not for me anyway. Phil (Kelsall) Roberts 26 Posted 25/07/2023 at 18:44:46 Totally agree about having youngsters on the bench.The 2 goalies, I don't have a problem. 10 minutes in, Jordan Pickford pulls his hammy. Reserve goalie come on and 10 minutes later in a 1-on-1 with their attacker, brings them down and gets a red. We still have 1 goalie on the bench rather than play 70 minutes with an outfield player doing his best.But if we only have 4 or 5 fit first teamers, then putting a Academy/U21 player on the bench will give them so much buzz and also maybe learn a few things from the experienced pros. We should never name less than the 9 subs. Dave Abrahams 27 Posted 25/07/2023 at 20:12:43 Phil (26)I was smiling to myself thinking how often would three goalies be used in a game until I realised that I once read about David Herd scoring four goals versus Sunderland in a 5-0 win against three different ‘keepers, he scored his first goal against Jim Montgomery who went off injured, he then scored another goal against an outfield player who got injured and then two more past Charle Hurley the Sunderland centre half. There were no substitutes in those days.Davis Herd was playing for Man.Unt.at the time and I remember reading about these goals in a Manchester United programme. Kieran Kinsella 28 Posted 25/07/2023 at 20:28:15 Dave & PhilI could have sworn that we used three goalies in one game when Ian Turner got sent off and another goalie got injured. Anyway, the old memory must be going as I looked it up and that is not what happened. Although, the article went on to talk more about Ian Turner's later career and this line caught my attention:"Turner signed for Preston North End on a 93-day emergency loan on 9 February 2011, replacing Andy Lonergan, the regular Preston goalkeeper."That feels like a lifetime ago and there's our current back up goalie Lonergan in his prime. Peter Gorman 29 Posted 26/07/2023 at 13:44:39 Kieran, you are almost correct - I think Richard 'Dickie' Wright got injured in the warm-up (falling over an advertising board that he hasn't removed from the goalmouth - apparently somebody thought it a good idea to place one there) so Turner made his debut and got sent off, so we had to play an even more raw John Ruddy.Think it was a cup game. Needless to say, our run ended there.At least how I remember it. John Raftery 30 Posted 26/07/2023 at 18:59:18 Peter (29),The game to which you refer was a league game at home to Blackburn in 2006. We won 1-0 with a goal from Beattie. As I recall, Wright was injured the previous Wednesday in the pre-match warm-up at Chelsea, a League Cup tie which needless to say we lost.Danny (25),I salute you. From what I have read, not a lot has changed and certainly not enough. John McFarlane Snr 31 Posted 26/07/2023 at 20:10:38 Hi Danny [25], today's players can't be blamed for accepting ridiculous salaries, the fault lies with the people who offer them such salaries. The way the professional game has gone is, in my opinion, wrecking football as we have known it. I'm old enough to remember prior to the £20 maximum wage being lifted, and I was told that Everton players were on £16 per week during the season, and £12 during the close season. At that time the average weekly wage was £8, half of what the footballers were on. I believe that they deserved more than the working man, because they could have been classed as entertainers, but the money in the game today doesn't make it cheaper for the fans. Peter Gorman 32 Posted 26/07/2023 at 20:48:53 John Raftery – yes! I remember now, two separate games but Iain Turner was the common denominator.I checked up on Wright's injury and the sign in the goalmouth he pranged himself on was actually put there to instruct him to use the temporary goals during the warm up. But this was the guy who had form for falling out of a loft.Going back to the sending-off; so Ruddy kept a clean sheet afterwards in I think his only ever appearance for us. He didn't turn out too bad and even later earned an England cap. Dave Abrahams 33 Posted 28/07/2023 at 11:45:00 Peter (29) and John (30), I think it's worth pointing out that Turner was sent off very early in that game. Lee Courtliff 34 Posted 28/07/2023 at 12:55:46 Samways was jinxed and disliked by Royle at Everton. He'd played well in a poor team under Walker and then was frozen out by Big Joe from Nov to Feb when he came off the bench at home to Norwich and was absolutely superb!Our next game was away at West Ham on MNF and Martin Tyler said Joe Royle confirmed that Vinny would have been involved tonight but was unfortunately injured in training during the week!His next start was away at Leicester in early Mar and he rounded off a breathtaking counter attack with a simple tap-in that put us 2 nil up. He then, inexplicably, kicked out at a player in the centre circle and was rightly sent off. He didn't play again that season, from what I remember. In the following season, 95/96, he scored a lovely goal away at West Ham in a 2-1 defeat but was then unbelievable left out of the entire squad for our next game against Reykjavik in the ECWC!He was back in for a couple of games in Oct then never played for us again. Royle gave a rather 'funny' interview where he said " we thank him for the 1 goal he did score and the 1 winning team he was in, in the Charity Shield".Vinny was a good player and we certainly could have used more the following season when injuries hit and we ended up signing Claus bloody Thomsen!! Peter Mills 35 Posted 28/07/2023 at 13:23:07 Phil#26, I used to enjoy seeing an outfield player having to take over the goalie's jersey.Sandy Brown did it for us twice, and Denis Smith did okay for Stoke (despite letting in 4 goals) when he replaced John Farmer at Goodison in the 69-70 season. Who would take on the role now for Everton? Tarkowski or Keane, I suspect. Brent Stephens 36 Posted 31/07/2023 at 14:32:57 Apologies if already posted elsewhere but some great rule changes for the new season: time-wasting; dissent etc. Brilliant. Prem games lasted an average of under 55 minutes last season!!! 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