03/10/2023 102comments  |  Jump to last

Updated Abdoulaye Doucouré has agreed a two-year extension to his Everton contract, which will keep him at the club until 2025.

Fabrizio Romano had tweeted on 26 October that an agreement was very close, followed by reports by The Athletic and another transfer insider, The Bobble, who also confirmed that talks were underway between the Toffees and the Mali international.

His previous  terms were up next summer, with the club having exercised  an option to extend his original contract by one season.

“I love Everton and I’m very happy to extend my stay here and look forward with the Club,” Doucoure told the official website when the news was confirmed.

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“It was a very easy decision to make. I love all the people around the Club and all the fans who have shown me so much love in the past couple of months. My wish was to stay here and continue to enjoy my time with Everton.

“It means a lot to stay here. I always fight for this club and I’ve always been in love with this club. I’ve always wanted to stay at Everton.

“The fans’ support has been incredible and I can’t thank them enough for all the support they give me. I want to keep playing, I want to keep learning and I want to keep fighting for the badge and for the Club.”

Doucouré was signed from Watford in the summer of 2020 for £20m and, after falling out of favour under Frank Lampard last season, has become an integral part of Sean Dyche's team this term.

He is joint leading scorer with Dominic Calvert-Lewin with three goals.

Quotes sourced from evertonfc.com

Reader Comments (102)

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Colin Glassar
1 Posted 26/10/2023 at 19:50:56
Doucouré on his day is unplayable for friend and foe alike.

He's very unpredictable which I actually like about him.

Pete Neilson
2 Posted 26/10/2023 at 19:52:17
What have we done to deserve this? Surely not.
Tony Everan
3 Posted 26/10/2023 at 19:57:49
Good news, get him signed up, he's an asset to the squad.

Ten much needed goals looks like a fair target this season from his preferred advanced role. Physically he looks still at his peak so I think the 1-year deal plus the option for another is the right call from Kevin Thelwell.

Robert Tressell
4 Posted 26/10/2023 at 20:19:22
Sensible. He is effective without being especially good (just imagine Sigurdsson, Cahill or Fellaini in that position) and still in good condition.

Gueye, Alli and Gomes will all leave in June so we're very short on numbers in midfield. Giving Doucoure another year might allow us time to develop a youth player of real talent.

Paul Kernot
5 Posted 26/10/2023 at 20:48:04
At £20mil, he's one of very few that has provided a half-decent return on the investment.

As Robert says, hopefully he'll become a squad player, backing up a younger, better replacement.

Tony Everan
6 Posted 26/10/2023 at 20:53:01

I think it's more likely we will have to find one. I'd like a feisty creative No10 like Gibbs-White who was a target for Thelwell until he found out that he only had an oversized whiskey bottle full of 5ps to spend.

Still I think he will be on the lookout for such a player on bargain deal. It will be interesting to see any options you come up with, Robert.

Tony Abrahams
7 Posted 26/10/2023 at 21:01:41
I still think McNeil could become a decent Number 10, and as much as I like Doucoure's energy, he does at times run down a few blind alleys, imo.

Because of his great energy, I'd like to see if he could play out wide, and especially because I'd also like Dyche to try and find out if Beto and Calvert-Lewin could develop a very powerful partnership.

Andy Meighan
8 Posted 26/10/2023 at 21:28:24
Say what what you want about Doucoure.

And by god he does look clumsy at times, but he gets goals from midfield and that's something we've missed since Sigurrdson was wrongly elbowed from the club.

Not the most graceful of players but look at his goals input compared to the so-called highly coveted Onana and the misfiring Idrissa Gueye… no contest really, is there?

Yes, I'd keep him. As much as he is clumsy and does frustrate, he has got a goal in him.

Colin Malone
9 Posted 26/10/2023 at 22:10:50
Swap him and Onana.
Laurie Hartley
10 Posted 26/10/2023 at 22:24:51
I like Doucoure very much.

For me he is first player on the team sheet in this current squad. He is a leader.

Mal van Schaick
11 Posted 26/10/2023 at 22:29:23
If he stays still long enough to sign the contract.

Can't fault the effort, and he has scored some important goals for us. Perhaps Dyche can tweak his game a little to be less wasteful and more productive.

Bill Gienapp
12 Posted 26/10/2023 at 22:50:17
Ideally we'd be looking to upgrade, but given our situation, keeping Doucoure on board is sensible.

He's been highly effective since Dyche arrived and I don't think expecting him to reach double figures in goals this season is at all unrealistic.

Jonathan Oppenheimer
13 Posted 26/10/2023 at 23:03:10
One also has to wonder whether a possible transfer ban influences this decision. If it turns out we can’t sign new players, it’s a no-brainer.

He’s not ideal at his age to be in our starting XI in the next few years, but he never stops working and as others have said, has goals in him. Given all that, I support this decision, even if we’re probably overpaying a bit.

Paul Birmingham
14 Posted 26/10/2023 at 23:14:21
For me, it's a sensible decision, all considered with business affairs of the club, and provides unity in the Everton squad.
Paul Kossoff
15 Posted 26/10/2023 at 23:34:47
He's just signed a new contract in May didn't he? Bloody hell, I used to laugh at clubs giving new contracts to players that have only been there a season, but six months!

Everton must be panicking thinking that if we get relegated or a transfer ban, we will have to keep the players that should be getting replaced. He's not that good to be giving a 31-year-old a near 3-year contract. Desperate times, oh and who is sanctioning this?

Matt Traynor
16 Posted 26/10/2023 at 23:47:15
Paul #15, I think it was a 1-year extension triggered by the club, not a new contract per se. Had Frank stayed, he'd have left on a free.
Derek Knox
17 Posted 27/10/2023 at 01:02:14
Agree with most, on his day he is definitely an asset… but those days are too far apart for my liking. Can't fault his effort generally but he is prone to blind-alley play and struggles to control sometimes simple balls.

However, the position we are in, we have to consider the players we have, as we can't afford to let many more leave. Always feel Dwight McNeil will get even better once in a settled position and team, that extends to Jack Harrison and James Garner too.

Matt @15, are you still in the UK or have you returned to the Philippines?

Dupont Koo
18 Posted 27/10/2023 at 01:17:10
Unless it involves a significant pay-cut from his current 6 figures weekly wages (the bigger the paycut, the better), I don't see this extension would age well at all for someone who is on the wrong side of 30, has a sub-par Football IQ and relies on his athleticism that will certainly decline over the age of the extension.

In fact, his legs can be gone anytime from now, and as soon as they are gone, his lack of Football IQ and technique would ill-equip him to be a deep-lying playmaker (like how Gareth Barry delivered for us), and he would become another contract albatross that we cannot seem to escape during the Moshiri reign.

Any new money spending on Doucouré beyond his current contract expiry of 30 June (new salary & sign-on bonus) would not be money well spent.

Don't forget his presence in the team would also block another youngster to come into the lineup (Quick tangent: I hold the opinion that he literally blocks Beto from playing with Calvert-Lewin).

He did indeed save us from relegation with his timely goals but it doesn't mean we need to give him a contract extension as a pre-retirement gift.

My first doubt as a member of the #ThelwellBrigade.

Pre-emptive Grade: D+

David Morgan
19 Posted 27/10/2023 at 02:56:25
Can't pass a ball but can smash it in the net and runs all day, weirdest midfielder ever.

Kind of best suited as a support striker, I suppose. He deserves a contract for keeping us up last season.

Mike Gaynes
20 Posted 27/10/2023 at 04:46:43
I'm all for this. Nobody plays harder or with more passion. Nobody does our shirt prouder.

Yeah, it would be nice if he could pass or dribble. But he plays with huge heart and scores huge goals, and he never backs down.

Matt Traynor
21 Posted 27/10/2023 at 05:47:34
Derek #17, back in the land of Balut, cheap grog and 6am karaoke - hopefully catch up next trip in March 24.
Bob Parrington
22 Posted 27/10/2023 at 06:50:24
Well, can't blame Billy K for this! RIP Bill.

I'm on the 'keep' side with Doucouré. He brings energy and excitement to the side and some goals from midfield, which has already been mentioned.

Paul Hewitt
23 Posted 27/10/2023 at 06:52:57
A footballer that can't pass. Like a boxer that can't punch. And we keep him. No wonder we're in the mess we are in.
Robert Tressell
24 Posted 27/10/2023 at 07:39:02
Tony # 6, if we do get a high quality new number 10 in the Gibbs-White mould, then there's a good chance he will be a complete unknown. Like the teenager Uzun whom we are linked with (along with about 30 other clubs) who is doing very well for Nuremberg in the German 2nd tier. Basically, high talent players who will need a year or two (and possibly a loan) before we see what they can do. There's plenty of options out there.

To those calling for a Beto / DCL partnership, I don't really get it. Dyche incorrectly gets called a dinosaur tactically (just on the occasions we lose, mind you) but this really would be a dinosaur move. It is far too easy for the opposition to create overloads and open up passing lanes against a team set up this way now - and there's a good reason why it went out of fashion about 20 years ago or more.

Eddie Dunn
25 Posted 27/10/2023 at 08:21:54
We need him, and his goals. His passing is often wayward but his engine and heart are incredible. That amazing goal that kept us up shows that he has plenty to offer especially if we are slapped with a transfer embargo.
Steve Brown
26 Posted 27/10/2023 at 08:38:01
5 goals last season and 3 this season to date in a squad seriously short of scoring power.

Sometimes, his control and passing drives me mad but I think we should tie him to a longer contract.

As a minimum, it would ensure resale value on a player who cost us 22 million.

Christopher Timmins
27 Posted 27/10/2023 at 08:41:25
If you set up to play in a way that incorporates what he does best, work rate and some goals, he's fine.
Pete Neilson
28 Posted 27/10/2023 at 08:43:28
A few goals don’t make up for the many games where he has been woeful. Working hard should be a minimum prerequisite and while he fulfils this in some games his severe limitations as a footballer won’t be overcome at his age. He’s been a senior player in one of the worst Everton teams witnessed in living memory. He’s more part of the problem than the solution.

On existing contracts, concentrate on keeping the younger players in the squad who still have potential. Well run clubs have recruitment planning in place allowing them to avoid having such makeweight players in their teams just for the sake of expediency.

Lester Yip
29 Posted 27/10/2023 at 08:48:34
Sensible move. We don't even know if there's a transfer embargo. Better to make sure we secure enough players to survive this and next season.
Ben King
30 Posted 27/10/2023 at 09:01:37
Great move.

He’s not brilliant but the stats say he’s a stand out player for where we are currently.

We need goals and you can make a good argument to say they we’d have gone down last season without Doucs.

We have to face it that this era is similar to when Duncan played for us: we were crap then and we’re crap now. Duncan was a shining light because he was the best of a bad bunch.

At the moment we’re fighting relegation for a 3rd season in a row and Doucs’ goals could be vital to getting us safe.

Good forward thinking from the club. Well done Kevin Thelwell!

Tony Abrahams
31 Posted 27/10/2023 at 09:11:58
Interesting point Robert, but it worked for Leicester, when they won the EPL league.

Tactics are very important, but so is getting the most out of your squad of players, and with a manager now being able to use five subs, then surely that must mean teams don’t have to be so rigid for the whole game now?

Imagine Beto and DCL, showed that they could be a very effective partnership (the jury is out on this one) would you continue to worry about the opposition, or would you prefer to concentrate on what your own players can do?

Watching the game against Liverpool, then one thing that was evident to me is that our present set-up isn’t quite right, and when our highest midfielder went forward, he often ended up running down a blind alley, possibly because he was outnumbered, and never had anyone to pass the ball to.

I do agree with you about the overload Robert, because it’s a brilliant tactic, and definitely the hardest thing to defend in football, imo, and it frustrates me watching football nowadays because most teams prefer the big switch of play, which is rarely as effective imo!

Dyche sometimes condenses the pitch too much imo, which enables anyone to hit that big switch, (rather than the overload) so I’m sure with practice, any system could work against most teams?

Robert Tressell
32 Posted 27/10/2023 at 09:40:40
Tony # 31,

Leicester did not play a traditional 4-4-2 and did not use a target man, let alone 2. Vardy essentially played up front on his own and the ridiculously hard-working Okazaki adjusted his position between attack, midfield and flanks to create overloads and ensure Leicester were not outnumbered in midfield. The formation was more like a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 / 4-4-1-1 in practice.

I think you do need to worry about the opposition at this level, too. Especially all you have to offer is long balls because you're outnumbered in midfield by more sophisticated teams.

Steve Griffiths
33 Posted 27/10/2023 at 09:44:19
Colin (9), who for? Are you aware of the current position we find ourselves in?

Yes, Doucouré gives the ball away cheaply at times but has and continues to score vital goals.

Onana is one of the brightest young midfield talents in Europe and has arguably been our best player in the last two games, so maybe he is maturing and getting to grips with English football.

I'm intrigued as to who you think we could straight swap these two players for and which players would come and, if not a straight swap, then where the money would come from to replace them?

Doucouré would leave on a free, so no income from him. Onana would bring in £50-60M but it would cost that amount to replace him and I would assume the club would simply use the majority of the fee to pay off debts.

Dave Abrahams
34 Posted 27/10/2023 at 09:48:53
Paul (23),

I think Doucouré has scored some knockout goals for us has plenty of energy,makes loads of mistakes but justifies a 1-year extension to his contract.

For me anyway, he'd always be in this present team because he's needed more than any of the other central midfield players, that's how poor the central midfield is.

Jack Convery
35 Posted 27/10/2023 at 10:09:24
This is Everton taking out an insurance policy in case we receive a transfer ban.

If he went for nothing, it would cost us more to replace him than the wages we will pay him and that's if we could sign someone.

It also means, should we get no transfer ban and investment actually comes into the club, we can get some money for him. I think that makes sense!

Paul Cherrington
36 Posted 27/10/2023 at 10:21:01
While I like this player and am grateful for his part in keeping us up over the last few seasons, I'm not sure about this news. I just think he holds the team back a bit as a Number 10 and we need someone with much better passing, control, vision and creativity in that position.

He is also not really that good at marking, tackling or tracking opponents for a midfielder. He definitely has his plus points but I think we need an upgrade to move forward.

Tony Abrahams
37 Posted 27/10/2023 at 10:49:50
I think that's how we played under Walter Smith when he paired Ferguson and Campbell for a bit, Robert.

I'm not advocating the constant use of the long ball though, and I wouldn't just expect them to be two statues (instead of one – like Beto was against Arsenal and Calvert-Lewin was at Anfield).

No formation is outdated if you can get the players well drilled.

Jerome Shields
38 Posted 27/10/2023 at 10:53:47
There is no option but to give Doucouré a new contract, given what we know of Everton's current circumstances. He is an end-to-end midfielder who flicks rather than passes, but he can finish if given the opportunity.
Christine Foster
39 Posted 27/10/2023 at 11:09:29
Some interesting points, it's apparent looking at the last few games:

1. Liverpool targeted us every time we had a corner. 3/4 players would hit us fast on the break storming through midfield. We were lucky twice that they didn't score. They should have.

2. Defensively too narrow condensing the centre of the park but leaving wide players able to attack and easily overlap us. With Young targeted and Patterson, Mykolenko constantly making last-ditch tackles as we are not doubling up.

3. Garner's only position is centre-midfield, he doesn't track back well enough and leaves the door open.

4. Doucouré has been playing alongside Iwobi too long, he is not a creative midfielder, not a stopper and not good enough as a striker. He has a bit of all three but honestly, a make-do-with player, capable of goals but too often cannot find a final pass.

5. We miss a fullback who can cross a ball; come back, Seamus! Calvert-Lewin had Digne and Coleman; Young's delivery is appalling and Patterson's non-existent.

6. McNeil works hard but has looked knackered after 60 minutes. Danjuma is a bit like a square peg, round hole… not clicking yet.

7. Beto, looks as though he could make an impact if he could just get on the same wavelength as Dyche or his team mates.

8. Branthwaite has adapted well and looks at home thank goodness.

Funny thing is, you can almost see Dyche's plan, but execution is a bit hit and miss, partly because we are playing some out of position, some not good enough etc – a real make do with what you have. So we will get some good results and some random fails… mid-table beckons!

John Raftery
40 Posted 27/10/2023 at 11:14:11
Interesting our better players are often seen as a problem by some fans.

Doucouré is one of our better players. I doubt we will be able to sign anyone better. In the circumstances we find ourselves offering him a new deal makes sense.

Robert Tressell
41 Posted 27/10/2023 at 11:36:36
John # 40, spot on.

Of course we all realise Doucoure is not as good as Sigurdsson was in that position – but a high quality player who is ready now (and would be willing to play for us) will cost upwards of £35M.

However, for no more than £10M, we could buy and develop an excellent player ready to take Doucouré's spot in a year or so.

Niall McIlhone
42 Posted 27/10/2023 at 11:40:44
Doucoure seems to have a very positive mindset, and he has shown self-belief in re-establishing himself in the team after being overlooked by Lampard.

I have been critical of his passing skills and his sometimes wayward movement, but under Dyche, he seems to have regained his focus and intensity, and away from home, especially, he is a real asset with his high-energy style on the counter.

He is giving his best to our club, unlike some of the players who have come and gone in recent years, he definitely deserves to be in a blue shirt as we move to our new stadium imo.

Jim Burns
43 Posted 27/10/2023 at 13:11:01
Paul @ 23 - we'd be in an even bigger mess if he hadn't smashed that superb goal v Palace.

Pound for pound – and for all his limitations – one of our better transfer deals versus some of the injury-ridden and heartless shite we've wasted money on in the last few years.

On that goal alone worth every cent in very real terms.

Dave Abrahams
44 Posted 27/10/2023 at 13:15:26
Definitely not trying to be controversial but, to me, Doucoure has done a lot more for the benefit of Everton than the highly rated, on here, Onana.
Mark Murphy
45 Posted 27/10/2023 at 13:52:06
Amen — with a massive big A to that, Dave!

If Onana gives us as much effort and heart as Doucouré does, then he'll be a decent player, sure enough. But I can't fault Doucouré on those qualities!

Barry Cowling
46 Posted 27/10/2023 at 16:06:07
It seems the logical, sensible option for us. If someone comes in for him, then we get a few quid for him; if not, then he can certainly do a job for us.

But, in my opinion we had the perfect replacement for him who hardly ever got a chance and that was Nathan Broadhead. I've seen a bit of him for Ipswich and I know a few of their fans.

Also, listening to some of the commentators, they all seem to say that he was the stand-out player in League One last season and right up there with the best in the Championship. They all pretty much agree that he is their best and most creative player, and we got a paltry £1.5M.

Oh, and not forgetting he scored on his Wales debut. I said at the time I would rather see Dobbin and Simms go and keep Cannon and Broadhead. That probably says enough about the state of our finances.

Matt Byrne
47 Posted 27/10/2023 at 17:06:44
Goals from midfield are huge. Keep him.
Danny O’Neill
48 Posted 27/10/2023 at 18:09:31
I'm okay with him staying. Keep him high up the pitch with midfield cover behind him.

He may not be the modern Number 10, but keep him up there and he run around like a headless chicken all day long and will get goals as we've seen.

Tony Everan
49 Posted 27/10/2023 at 18:37:03
Robert, doing a bit of reading and watching some clips on Can Uzun.

He looks a great prospect for the No 10 position. Still very young: 17, 18 next week but apparently all the Turkish clubs wanted to get him on their books in the summer. (Turkish but born in Germany.)

Bayern tracking him too and have already spoken to Nuremberg.

Denis Richardson
50 Posted 27/10/2023 at 18:40:09
To be fair, we have loads of players coming to the end of their contracts this season so getting him tied down for another year is a positive. With a possible transfer embargo round the corner, also another good reason.

One less to replace next year and we could still sell next summer if, eg, the Saudi League comes calling and we need money.

He's also been one of our better players since Dyche came in so good news all round I think. Hopefully we managed to get his £100k/week wages down a bit but I doubt it.

Jeff Armstrong
52 Posted 27/10/2023 at 23:15:59
Onana's stats, Doucoure beats him on goals no messing, but doesn't get near him on ability.

Amadou Onana for Everton in the Premier League this season:

◉ 22 Tackles (1st)
◉ 62 Possession wins (1st)
◉ 71 Duels won (1st)
◉ 19 Fouls won (1st)
◉ 44 Progressive passes (1st)
◉ 28 Shot creating actions (1st)
◉ 4 Big chances created (T-1st)
◉ 27 Aerials won (2nd)
◉ 382 Passes (2nd)
◉ 475 Touches (3rd)
◉ 785 Minutes (3rd)


can't control a ball (1st)
Can't pass a ball (1st)
Can't get his head up (1st)
Can't control his own fucking feet (1st)

[Okay, I made that one, and the others, up]

Robert Tressell
53 Posted 28/10/2023 at 06:20:43
Jeff #52,

Yes, Doucouré is effective without being very good. Whilst he will score goals in the system Dyche has put together, he will severely limit our ability to improve.

We just need better players. Imagine Sigurdsson, Baines and (prime) Coleman in this side.

Ernie Baywood
54 Posted 28/10/2023 at 07:20:35
Scoring a few goals is great. And I don't mean that sarcastically. It's hard to score goals at Premier League level.

But the role we've given this guy is incredible. I'm sure he can't believe he's an attacking midfielder for a Premier League club with a licence to basically play off the striker.

The least talented "Number 10" in the history of the league! Can you think of a technically worse candidate?

A contract makes sense given the paucity of options and funds... but if we stay up, we need to move on from playing reliable hard workers and actually try someone with a bit of talent.

In fact I'd be doing it now. How do you break down and beat a Luton type when your Number 10 is a battering ram? He's got a place away from home in tough fixtures.

As for the comparisons with Onana... I just shake my head. Onana is another talented player that won't be appreciated and will leave. Because he doesn't look like he's busting a gut like Doucoure.

Mark Murphy
55 Posted 28/10/2023 at 07:24:47
Jeff, not disputing Onana's stats at all but you seem to be publishing his stats but in Doucoure's case simply your opinions?

In my opinion, Doucoure gives more heart, energy and effort. That's my opinion.

What are Doucoure's stats?

Derek Thomas
56 Posted 28/10/2023 at 07:37:37
Robert @ 53;

"Doucoure is effective without being very good."

Some seem to think Onana is very good without being really effective.

Tony Abrahams
57 Posted 28/10/2023 at 08:24:51
Touches 475 (3rd); Passes 372 (2nd) — so does this mean he gives the ball away every one out of five times he touches the ball?

Onana is doing well to be so far up the charts, but it's alarming to think that, if correct, his stats, score so highly.

He gets a touch of the ball about once every 1.40 minutes and he passes the ball once every 2 something minutes, and if this gets him so close to the top of the Everton stats charts for touching and passing the ball, then I find it very alarming for the rest of our team.

Robert Tressell
58 Posted 28/10/2023 at 09:21:26

I think the stats are explained by the fact that for good reason we are set up to play without the ball. It's a pragmatic way to get the most out of a limited group of players - because the easiest way to score is to attack vacated space on the counter.

I think it also explains the polarised views on Onana. He will better suit a team set up to dominate possession (ie, a better side) but gets outshone by runners in our set-up. Whereas Doucouré (effective on the counter) would look rubbish in a possession-based team because he's not very good at football.

Rob Dolby
59 Posted 28/10/2023 at 10:13:39
Robert 58 spot on.

I don't mind this decision at this moment in time as he is key to Dyche's formation. If we get a points deduction we will almost certainly drop down a division which will also suit Doucouré.

The lad's goal v Bournemouth was worth £100M to the club so rewarding him with a new contract, probably on less money with god knows how many clauses, makes sense.

Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 28/10/2023 at 10:16:35
Fair point, Robert.

I was just pointing out that a player who mostly plays very safe and conservative, still gives the ball away an awful lot, and he's near the top of our charts for both ball retention and getting the most touches of the ball.

Going back to our discussion yesterday, Robert, although I'm also not the biggest lover of 4-4-2 in the modern game because of the reasons you mentioned, I still believe that this is a formation that Sean Dyche, should try, because I believe if it is done properly, then it would make us a much harder team to play against.

For a team that mostly plays without the ball, I sometimes feel that Everton are completely wide open. I believe one of the reasons for this is because our midfield three don't seem to really complement each other.

Ernie Baywood
61 Posted 28/10/2023 at 12:01:43
Robert, so how do you feel about the selection of Doucoure and Gana... in home games where we would expect to have more of the ball and need to break down the opposition and score?

They're decent counter attacking selections in my view. Doucoure's goals cloud the fact that we are less creative with him in the team. Because when he needs two touches, he doesn't have two in him.

And that's my issue with this season so far. We played defensive players when we were going to have them ball and need to break teams down. Then our manager claimed we were unlucky because we didn't score despite having good stats. We weren't unlucky, we were crap with the ball.

The next sequence of games... well they present nothing like the incredible opportunity of the first 6 or 7 that we passed up. It's fingers crossed time.

Robert Tressell
62 Posted 28/10/2023 at 14:37:14
Ernie # 61,

I make no secret of the fact that I don't like Gueye at all. I don't like him in the side home or away.

As for the rest of your comments, I could write an essay but basically see whatever Sam Hoare has said previously, take a look at the players available for each match (compared with the opposition) and maybe even re-watch some of the games.

Dave Abrahams
63 Posted 28/10/2023 at 14:57:59
Robert (58),

I'm not being sarcastic but tell me what Onana does without the ball? He doesn't pass and move, he never runs into space, sometimes he runs back and asks for the ball when he is being covered by two men.

If he does get the ball, he passes it back to whoever gave him the ball, he literally does nothing when he hasn't got the ball just goes missing, tell me what makes him so special to you.

It's a pity that stats don't win teams points.

Robert Tressell
64 Posted 28/10/2023 at 15:29:54
Dave # 63,

You're describing the role there of Fabinho who did much the same thing very successfully for the RS. Fabinho wasn't supposed to do much more than hold a position, close off passing lanes and recycle the ball with first-time passing.

He's good at a very underwhelming job. But Fabinho was nevertheless one of the key players for the RS because he released the full-backs to attack. Unfortunately our full-backs are crap on the ball (although Mykolenko is proving to be a very good defender).

Dave Abrahams
65 Posted 28/10/2023 at 16:01:32
Robert (64),

I thought Fabinho was an excellent player for the Reds. If he wasn't supposed to do much he ignored that, he was continually in the game, the engine of Liverpool's team and starter of most of their moves, he stood out for them.

I'll let you know when Onana stands out especially over the full game, still over-hyped and over-rated for me.

Robert Tressell
66 Posted 28/10/2023 at 16:21:55
But how would Fabinho have looked with Mykolenko and Young at full-back, Dave? And with Gueye and Doucoure as passing options instead of Henderson and Wijnaldum?

That's the point. Put prime Fabinho in our current team and he wouldn't stand out either.

Ryan Holroyd
67 Posted 28/10/2023 at 16:23:25
Comparing Doucoure and Onana is ridiculous. Totally different players.
Mark Taylor
68 Posted 28/10/2023 at 16:59:54
I hear the case for extending and it's a good one, especially as we may desperately need players if we get a transfer embargo.

But, for as long as we have a player with so little football talent as a first-team choice, we will always be bumping along near the bottom of the table.

Dave Abrahams
69 Posted 28/10/2023 at 17:16:32
Robert (66),

He would still be noticed by being in the game the whole time, never going missing. Onana does. If he is such a good player, he would stand out in such a poor team; he doesn't.

I don't even know if he has a good engine to perform for 90 minutes, he's never proved it.

Steve Mink
70 Posted 29/10/2023 at 00:31:49
Christine Foster #39

Your points are the most perceptive commentary I have seen in all of the years I have been lurking here.

Mike Gaynes
71 Posted 29/10/2023 at 06:12:22
Dave, you're cracking me up, mate. You've become for Onana what Colin Glassar became for Iwobi... so obsessed with despising the guy, you can't see anything he does that's positive.

Winning the ball doesn't win games?

Tony Everan
72 Posted 29/10/2023 at 07:15:17
Onana is still learning, just turned 22 and I think he is progressing this season. Inconsistent is a fair point, but he's going the right way. Sean Dyche and his team are learning about him and, since they've been playing him a little bit deeper these last few matches, he has been more involved in the game.

There's more to come from him and I agree with Dave that we should be demanding more, not because he is slacking but because he has the potential to deliver more. With support, it will come as he develops in this tough league.

Amadou Onana for Everton in the Premier League this season:

◉ 22 Tackles (1st)
◉ 62 Possession wins (1st)
◉ 71 Duels won (1st)
◉ 19 Fouls won (1st)
◉ 44 Progressive passes (1st)
◉ 28 Shot creating actions (1st)
◉ 4 Big chances created (=1st)
◉ 27 Aerials won (2nd)
◉ 382 Passes (2nd)
◉ 475 Touches (3rd)
◉ 785 Minutes (3rd)

Danny Baily
73 Posted 29/10/2023 at 07:26:49
Dave, what does he have to do to stand out in your opinion?

Look at those stats; they will have the moneyed clubs circling. He was a top buy and is a key part of our side. In terms of performances, he's already benefiting from Gueye slipping down the pecking order.

Dave Abrahams
74 Posted 29/10/2023 at 08:35:58
Danny (73), Danny you watch Onana same as me, If I was a scout interested in Onana I’d look at those stats and see what I written down about his performances and say to myself ‘ No wonder I laugh at stats, they give an entirely different version of the player I’m watching’.

Danny if you believe in stats I bet you love Santa Clause.

Dave Abrahams
75 Posted 29/10/2023 at 08:44:03
Danny (73), Sorry Danny I never answered your question properly, what I’d like him to do is wake up and share the work load to the obvious talent he has, he just doesn’t do enough, goes missing in every game, just watch him today, he never,ever gets involved enough,fans remember the rare good moments and turn a blind eye to his many errors and when he becomes invisible. Hope he eventually proves me wrong to make up for the previous forty or fifty games.
Robert Tressell
76 Posted 29/10/2023 at 09:20:00
Not necessarily with you Dave but I think a lot of fans see the £30m price tag and expect someone who is going to be our Gerrard, Vieira or Keane. Unfortunately £30m buys you a promising reserve these days if you're a top 8 club in the Premier League.

Yes Onana has a lot to do still (Fabinho was 24 when he joined the RS) but he's considered a big talent with the qualities to play Champions League style football by much wiser folk than those swapping stats and perspectives on this thread (myself included).

Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 29/10/2023 at 09:37:09
Yes, I think that’s how it goes, with many people looking at Onana, and thinking he could play for and also wouldn’t look out of place, in a much better team?

A lot of midfielders went for incredibly ridiculous money during the last window, but there didn’t seem to be any offers for Onana.

Maybe clubs didn’t think he was ready because of the one very obvious flaw in his game? Although not everyone agrees about this flaw.

I think Onana, has began to show signs of being prepared to do a bit more of the dirty work, but normally when you improve on things that need improving, you sometimes lose a little bit of the things you do quite naturally. I suppose it’s all about learning, and eventually being able to put everything together, but this isn’t something that just comes easily.

Steve Shave
78 Posted 29/10/2023 at 09:38:35
Tony Everan, that was a mike drop post, it should at least cause the critics to think more carefully about their words. Still, we do love to have a whipping boy, have we not quite crushed Patterson's spirit yet? Give him another year and he'll be finished off by us.

I sit on the fence with Onana, I see a raw but exciting player who needs to be nurtured and loved by his fans. I agree with Danny Bailey that he's performances have improved without Gana in the team. I do not profess to know enough about football to see what makes him a £50M player though right at this moment but that doesn't mean he isn't a £50M player.

Dave Abrahams
79 Posted 29/10/2023 at 10:52:17
Steve (78),Yes everyone has an opinion about Onana good or bad, on your opinion that he has improved when Gueye isn’t in the team : Everton’s best performance for a long time was at Brighton when Gueye was in the team and Onana came on for the last few minutes.

Mike (71) Your post doesn’t surprises me but using the word ‘’ despising’ definitely does surprise me, let me just say the opposite of your view,you can’t see anything negative about the lad even though there is absolutely plenty of that to see. Winning the ball doesn’t win games? He loses it as many times as he wins it maybe that contributes to losing games.

I don’t despise any player but I dislike shirkers Onana is one and Iwobi was worse than him in that department.

Brian Harrison
80 Posted 29/10/2023 at 11:09:41
Dave 79

As you know you and I both have the same opinion of Onana and those stats that Tony has posted bares no resemblance to the player I see every week. Maybe Dave being the age we are we judge him against some of past midfield players we have seen in a Blue shirt, and he is nowhere near their level. He is 6ft 4ins, he has the frame to dominate midfield yet far to often I forget he is on the pitch, every time he goes to play for Belgium a story emerges that some top club is after him, yet I have yet to see any club show any interest in him. I think this is more his agent trying to drum up interest. Mind I did read that even the Belgium fans gave him stick in his last game so just not you and me Dave unhappy with his performances.

I am sure Dave like me would like nothing more than to see him fulfil what many on here predict, and we will both be posting lashings of humble pie.

Russelll Smith
81 Posted 30/10/2023 at 08:37:46
Re the Onana discussion I think he has been very effective in the last 3 games playing the deeper “Gana” role. Yesterday he was receiving the ball on the half turn and then driving forward into the space, which he hasn’t been doing previously. He is still learning and will have off days but he is now starting to show some consistency. I think playing either Gana or Onana with Garner as the central pair works much better than trying to shoehorn all three in. Bearing in mind their respective ages we need to preserve with Onana and let him grow into the consistent defensive midfielder that I think he is going to be.
Ernie Baywood
82 Posted 30/10/2023 at 09:00:56
Is this conversation still going after yesterday?

Onana is the one doing the dirty work. And the hard work. And the quality work.

While Doucoure plays practically in a free attacking role... with the first touch of a rebound bet.

Jim Lloyd
83 Posted 30/10/2023 at 09:07:31
Ernie, I think Doucouré might be getting an extension on his contract because we're strapped for cash.
Ernie Baywood
84 Posted 30/10/2023 at 10:33:07
100% Jim. I won't argue against him getting a contract. Guys with this level experience aren't cheap or easy to find.

He always does a job. But his decent goal return clouds the fact that we are less creative as a team with him in the side. Away from home he's got a place if we play in a certain style.

Jim Lloyd
85 Posted 30/10/2023 at 10:39:52
Spot on Ernie. I think he does a job for us, either as sub or in the team. I think the way Onana's coming on, the Doucouré might make a good sub, as and when needed.
Sam Hoare
86 Posted 30/10/2023 at 10:51:39
Doucoure is a very hard working player who is perfectly suited to Dyche's team and philosophy. He will run all day and get the odd goal whislt always looking better in a team that doesn't have the ball much.

I hope his new contract will be less than the 100k p/w he's currently on. £60-75k would seem a better fit for our current state.

Onana is a different caliber of player; a superb athlete with high technical ability who has come on leaps and bounds this season, especially in his distribution. I'm surprised that people who watch the team every week can't see it. We will sell him to a Champions League team in the next few years for £60m+, I'm fairly confident about that.

Peter Warren
87 Posted 31/10/2023 at 21:33:43
Doucouré is a very good player and this is good news.
Tony Everan
88 Posted 03/11/2023 at 12:45:18
Great news, Doucoure has signed an extended contract until June 2025.

He’s been an important player for us since Sean came in, gives us options and keeps our squad strong. Very happy he’s signed.

John Pickles
89 Posted 03/11/2023 at 14:22:36
Seems good for all concerned. He is unlikely to play as regularly in a better team and Everton are not going to attract a better player. He is settled here and Dyche knows what he is about.
Kevin Molloy
90 Posted 03/11/2023 at 14:25:34
Doucouré kept us up on his own last year, so he's earned this.
Alex Gray
91 Posted 03/11/2023 at 14:45:50
Doucoure isn't a good technical player but there's no doubting his importance to the team. No other player can do what he does in the squad.

Rumours are he's now our highest earner which is worrying though.

John Raftery
92 Posted 03/11/2023 at 14:56:50
Apparently Doucouré ran 13 km at the London Stadium last Sunday. That's nearly 9 miles. I don't know how much running Danjuma did on Wednesday evening but I would be surprised if he came anywhere near that figure.

That partly explained our team's inability to maintain effective pressure on Burnley's back line especially in the final 25 minutes of the first half.

For now, Doucouré is a key player in our team.

Jack Convery
93 Posted 03/11/2023 at 15:08:32
Highest paid player – surely not.

He's okay… but not the best player in the squad.

Brian Wilkinson
94 Posted 03/11/2023 at 15:33:11
I am liking the new look Everton forward planning; with a possible transfer ban looming, it is a no brainer.

Trying to restructure the Dele Alli deal, most clubs would look at Alli's problems and would look to be seen as doing the right thing to help the player will give them positive brownie points. The fact that it is Levy is the sticking point trying to renegotiate.

Whatever else, we are covering the short-term future and about time we did forward planning.

John Keating
95 Posted 03/11/2023 at 15:46:47
Thing is, if we let him go at the end of his contract, we get nothing. We have to buy a replacement on whatever money.
In our present situation, we're skint.

He is what he is, has scored a few goals and has a bit more about himself than others presently in the squad.
Frank Crewe
96 Posted 03/11/2023 at 15:48:14
When you think under Lampard he was almost out the door.

Dyche knows he has plenty of experience, he's big and strong, he can play anywhere in the midfield, he's consistent, he doesn't get many injuries, he carries a goal threat and works hard for the team as a whole. A good solid performer.

He's exactly the kind of player you want in your squad. He'll only be 32 by the end of this contract. So he is hardly an old player. Especially when compared to the likes of Young, Milner, Silva, Ream, Evans, etc who are all over 35.

Mal van Schaick
97 Posted 03/11/2023 at 17:29:59
He has earned his new contract as opposed to some who we have let go.

He loves being at the club and I cannot fault his commitment and attitude, and let's hope we can press on with our improvement with Doucouré involved in the team.

Barry Hesketh
98 Posted 03/11/2023 at 18:27:05
For financial reasons or even for the players own ambitions, it's very likely that Onana won't be an Everton player, either following the January transfer window, or at some point later in the year.

Therefore, it was imperative that Doucoure was given a new contract. Trying to replace one important midfielder is difficult, replacing two simultaneously would be very difficult.

I realise that the two players have different skill-sets but, as we don't have that many players available to fill those midfield berths, we need to keep those who are at least willing to stay at Everton.

Dupont Koo
99 Posted 04/11/2023 at 01:32:07
If we are purely looking at Doucouré's curve as a player, he is exiting his prime and deals for players on the wrong side of 30 like him (especially for those who rely predominantly on athleticism) never end well. Like I said above (#18), this extension would carry a grade of D+.

Taking into account the flight risk of Onana (and the ongoing decline of Gana), the lack of successors coming up the Finch Farm pipeline (anyone else besides the overrated Onyango?) as well as a potential transfer embargo, Thelwell has to take the middle ground, ie, this extension, from a proper asset management point of view.

If there is a slight pay cut involved with this extension, it also improves the grade slightly (though I highly doubt that). The only saving grace is that this is only an extra year tagged on to his contract.

Final Grade = C-

Jim Lloyd
100 Posted 04/11/2023 at 07:02:42
The way I see it, our manager and our director of football see value in keeping Doucouré for an extra year, maybe two. That'll do for me.

I think they have to weigh up giving him a new contract versus buying a ready-made first-class young player who can walk right into our squad. I think there are two reasons we don't do that: 1) We can't because we've got no money; and 2) Who'd come even if we do have money?

I think our management have found a place for Doucouré that suits him and suits the squad, depending on how we play. It looks to me that he enjoys playing further forward. A few weeks ago, he played in the front alongside (just behind) Calvert-Lewin, in a 4-4-2 sort of formation. We've won several games since and Doucouré has done what he does best, defend from the front with Dom and scores goals.

Our midfield has looked much more athletic with McNeil, Onana, Garner and Harrison, with them also contributing goals, as well as getting back to defend. We've got a defence that's looking much more solid and athletic as well.

As for age, I don't know any formulas, but all I'd say is what formula fits Seamus? I'm glad Doucouré has been given his extra year or so, two left feet un all!

Derek Thomas
101 Posted 04/11/2023 at 07:11:29
Not the worst outcome for both parties.

Also, could be his decision to forego Afcon and Mali is tied in to the 2-year aspect?

Colin Malone
102 Posted 04/11/2023 at 12:36:53
The WestHam, when DCL hit the bar, There was no one within 100 yards for follow up, fortunately it was offside.
The Burnley game. The same thing happened, nearest dam it. Danjuma was a yard away, ready to pounce, unfortunately missed the target.
That what I want to see from a number 10.
Jerome Shields
103 Posted 06/11/2023 at 03:45:06
Everton had no choice. It would typical of Everton if the rumour that he is the highest earner is true. I hope not

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