Everton hit with 10-point deduction

Put in an appeal, and if we are outside the Bottom 3 at the end of the season, promptly withdraw the appeal.

No doubt it's the Premier League appeasing the teams that went down over the last couple of seasons, and put in complaints.

Also had the loan for the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock been taken out with a financial institution, then this expense would have hit the project cost line.

And also, the 3-year period covers Covid when we were unable to offload our player liabilities as nobody was buying.
Very very unfair.

Then we have to ensure that 777 Partners or some other lender keeps the club afloat for the immediate future, then submit our latest accounts and hope there are no issues with what are in them.

Then we need to see if 777 Partners or A N Other will buy the club. Oh and also try and keep whatever good players we have left in the January window.

No wonder Dyche reckoned he could write a book about Burnley following his extended stint at Turf Moor, but could already write a trilogy about his short period at Everton.

But there's a stench of corruption here. Even if Everton are guilty (there's some conjecture about what it is we've done wrong, the tax on the stadium mentioned) then the punishment is more than harsh!

I hope Everton come back from this with counter-claims and allegations.

So we have been handed a 10-point deduction with immediate effect for 1 financial breach, yet Man City have had 115 breaches being known for 2 years but no points deduction. Based on Everton's deduction, city should be getting 1150 points deduction.

Not to mention Chelsea now.

We just do not have Saudi lawyers…

Lukaku has been sold x3 times over short period for approx £80 mill a pop. You can't tell me these fees were paid and not on tick + combined with wages these deals are all very murky.

We can only appeal over disproportionate punishment so unlikely to be upheld.

This will work in our favour, we will get enough points to climb out of the Bottom 3, the crowd and players will now be right up for it.

I will make an apology to John Snr and the girls beforehand, in regards to language, but on this occasion I fully expect Goodison to be singing to the rafters, "You can stick your fucking 10 points up your arse."

We have been made an example of, this will spur us supporters and the team on going forward.

Goodison will be rocking for the Man Utd game and I fully expect the ref to bottle it big time with the intimidation around Goodison.

If this is setting a precedent, then surely clubs will now be docked points for any minor breaches of the rules – up to and including threatening to set up new competitions, taking money from corrupt regimes, managers speaking out against refereeing decisions, and – in the case of the RS – being insufferable bellends.

The appeal won't in any circumstances result in a reduction of the current penalty.

If only we had an accountant running the club.

Leave this shit behind and let's climb that table!

UTFT!

And at least we know what we have to do now.

Goodison will be rocking all season.

Two points away from Luton (17th).
Five points away from Bournemouth (16th).
Eight points away from Fulham (15th).

Until the appeal is answered.. (Juventus anyone?)

It should be interesting to try and catch up on Fulham and Nottingham Forest, anything can happen.

Instill the right attitude on our players and the home and away fans, then it's possible. Form-wise it's a good time to do it. Just got to keep grinding, keep going. Time for our blue boys to show their efficiency.

December has lots of matches for all the teams with few points away from each other, it's gonna be mind crippling for all. I say bring it on!!!

Imagine this in any other setting. No transparency whatsoever. If this is the punishment for exceeding the £105M threshold by £19.5M then presumably the likes of Man City and Chelsea will plummet into non-league and be stripped of any honours.

Of course no punishment at all for those who tried to create a breakaway league. The game is so rigged both on and off the field, they don't even try to disguise it.

Totally disproportionate and blatantly political. In a fair system, it would be tossed out on appeal, but this is football, rotten to the core.

We should take them to court and we should threaten to leave the Premier League.

Far worse crimes have been committed by Man City and Chelsea, far worse.

The so-called Super 6 were forming a new competition behind the Premier League's back, a far far worse crime.

We have already been punished for 2 years because of transfer restrictions that almost cost us relegation, and now this.

How can you do this mid season? It has just given the clubs below us the biggest incentive to fight for survival they could have ever hoped for.

Covid was a world pandemic, for God's sake, we happened to be spending big as it happened and now the Premier League think we should pay a price for spending at the wrong time. They gave clubs an allowance to get them under the spending limit but not enough to help us.

No, if we are to be punished, every club that was over the spending limit should be penalised.

This is absolutely a huge piece of injustice. The punishment does not fit the crime. Everton should now pursue every legal avenue to stop this corrupt organisation.

Amazed by the severity of this penalty. That's one hell of a precedent they've set there…

Really shocking to see how we've been made an example of, and really worrying when it comes to the future of the club.

2. Our big-headed, big-mouthed owner hasn't helped.

3. Appeal, delay and counter the rules and clear lack of transparency about sanctions and punishment.

4, Whilst I understand why football wants to bring in stronger financial governance, Mr Moshiri, whilst having many faults, isn't draining Everton of resources for financial gain and there's no sign he would allow us to go bankrupt. So the rules need not apply.

5. Until the Premier League can clearly demonstrate they have the authority and power to implement the rules fairly against all clubs, any ruling is discriminative.

6. £20M should have been £200M+ and we may have at least witnessed and created some on-field success. Trying to play fairly hasn't helped on or off the pitch.

7, It makes the season more interesting.

We are, as it stands, only 2 points off safety. Win next Saturday and screw the Premier League.

Fucking hell – I'm shocked to be honest. We really must be a mess financially, worse than anyone thought.

This is what you get when you write hot checks. This is why there are profitability and sustainability rules.

There's going to be a lot of, "What about Man City?" and, "The Premier League has a vendetta against us" and the like.

Look inward. Everton, like it or not, has been spending that which they do not have, they've broken the rules, they've been punished. I'm sorry, but we probably deserve this if they are smacking us with 10 points. We've done shit so askew of the Premier League's rules, we've been hit with the boulder.

Moshri need to sell now. This is embarrassing as fuck. We're cheaters or idiots, neither very good.

We can stay up. We need new ownership, ethical ownership (probably not 777 Partners to be honest), and we need to stay up.

Fucking embarrassing and what a fucking mess.

A substantial part of our losses can surely be attributed to being forced to cut ties with Usmanov by Government sanctions.

However distasteful or ill-gotten his money may have been, the fact remains that neither the Premier League nor the Government were bothered about him being an investor in Arsenal for years, then subsequently Everton, until the war in Ukraine suddenly became the fashionable cause du jour.

Why should Everton suffer as a result of losses incurred during a period of Government sanctions nobody could have predicted?!

It appears that the club have been caught red-handed from the little I heard on TalkShite but the deduction is ridiculously disproportionate to the amount over the allowed.

Man City's case could take another couple of years to be dealt with as it's so "complicated." As for Chelsea, and others, all we can do is wait and see.

Here's what Man Utd got from Uefa for their breach.

Uefa has fined Manchester United €300,000 (£256,785) for breaching Financial Fair Play rules over a four-year period between 2019 and 2022. Erik ten Hag has been handed a smaller summer transfer budget to work with despite the club publishing financial results last month, with revenue up by 11 per cent. Man United blame historic issues and previous FFP rules for the fine.

As it is, we are only 2 points behind now 16th place Luton. That seems catchable to me. But if Everton are to be the yardstick for points deductions for one charge, what points deduction will they have to hand City, and now apparently Chelsea as well for far more numerous alleged breaches and far worse breaches than ours?

They have opened a can of worms here and it's going to get a lot worse for the Premier League than just a points deduction for Everton. Because I think every club in the Premier League is fiddling the books and, once the Premier League start down this road, there is no way to know where it will end.

On a side issue, I would also point out that the reason the Premier League is so globally popular is because it spends the most cash to bring in the world's best players. If this is stopped, then those players will go where the money is.

I'm looking at the oil states who are not restricted in their spending by FFP rules. Silly buggers will destroy their own product to keep the likes of Burnley happy.

Does anyone actually know the appeals process and how long it takes?

Yes there was some bad luck... See Player X injury (Tosun?)
The deal with USM.

But the incompetence of the Board was the catalyst: A Theatre Impresario, an ex Charity Boss, an ex Footballer and a Director of Football. all listening to the orchestra play while the ship was heading straight for the iceberg.

Seriously, we need to use every trick in the book now and show these cunts!

Okay, there may or may not be some questionable moves by Everton, however, the Premier League have now demonstrated favourability and corruption towards other teams on the same issues, ie, Man City.

Useless owners and admin though.

Useless.

If it is in regards to a tax oversight on the new stadium, we need to get Ken Dodd's solicitor on the case.

Everton, a club of firsts.

Fuck the Premier League and their corruption.

At this very moment, I'd be okay with the Super League happening, the Premier League being disbanded, and the old First Division coming back with the remaining clubs.

The Premier League will now be decided by a cascade of points deductions, results on the pitch being now largely irrelevant.

This club and its fans have to raise the siege mentality to a level never seen before.

Every game needs be a cup final, intimidate the officials, Goodison not only needs to be a fortress but a place nobody is looking forward to coming to.

You corrupt bastards.

What next? Possibly 777 Partners will pull out and we will be left in limbo and only God can take us out of it.

I wonder what the squad and management feel right now?

I hope poor Bill Kenwright has a word with Jesus Christ and gets things put right.

What next? God knows. Sad days indeed for all Blues… and are others shaking in their boots?

Ridiculous but fingers crossed this galvanises the players.

Nobody likes us… but we don't care!

Fuck em. Turn Goodison into an furnace and batter shitty Man Utd and Nottm Forest.

Appeal the size of the points deduction and move.

Clubs talking of suing is. Ha ha. Win the appeal, and we can sue the independent body for false representation.

Big boys will wade in because they're next.

I think this could finish us. Some fans stating how poor other sides are, but results were improving for all the sides below us except for Burnley.

I also think Leeds, Southampton and Leicester will now sue.

What an absolute mess. Another one of Bill's good times.

I feel so sorry for Dyche, Woan and Stone.

Anybody have any idea how soon the appeal will take place?

But here's a sporting disadvantage as a punishment. Completely disproportionate.

If other clubs are held to the same standards, then Chelsea and Man City are relegated out of all the professional leagues and most of the non-professional leagues.

Yes, there has been incompetence and that goes on at most cubs.

The point is there has been far worse crimes committed over the years with no points deduction as punishment.

The punishment does not fit the crime, plain and simple.

137. It helps to stand back from all the detail that has been put before us and to see the overall picture. Everton's PSR difficulties are not attributable to the costs of the stadium development. Those costs were excluded from the PSR calculation in respect of the period before planning permission was granted by reason of the 13 August 2021 agreement, and thereafter by the ability to capitalise relevant costs by the application of FRS 102.

The cause of Everton's PSR difficulties was the fact that it overspent (largely on its purchase of new players and its inability to sell other players), and because it finished lower in the league than it had projected in FY 2022 (16th against the projected 6th – causing a loss of expected income of c.£21 million). Everton's understandable desire to improve its on-pitch performance (to replace the non-existent mid field, as Mr Moshiri put it in evidence) led it to take chances with its PSR position: those chances resulted in it exceeding the £105 million threshold by £19.5 million.

138. The position that Everton finds itself in is of its own making – it is Everton's responsibility to ensure that it complies with the PSR regime. The excess over the threshold is significant. The consequence is that Everton's culpability is great. We take into account the fact that Everton's PSR trend over the relevant four years is positive, but cannot ignore the fact that the failure to comply with the PSR regime was the result of Everton irresponsibly taking a chance that things would turn out positively. Further, Everton was less than frank in its dealings with the Premier League over the stadium interest issue. The reality is that Everton failed to manage its finances so as to operate within the generous threshold of £105 million. Its mismanagement led to that threshold being exceeded by £19.5 million.

Let's face it: Football today isn't what it was… money, Sky and greedy agents have ruined the game and taken it away from those who care passionately.

I'm 56 and remember when it was pure. Our beautiful game has been raped, violated and left in the gutter to die.

RIP

which has a link to the full report by the Commission.

Then... if the 6 go, the FA will look to the remaining big clubs for income, we will be one of, if not the best-supported clubs left and should tell them to fuck off in every possible way imaginable

It is bad news for Moshiri as that is now a liability in the purchase of the club. He will have to take a hit for it.

I think we have to accept this and look forward to Man City and Chelsea being judged by the same criteria and given a pro-rata punishment, so we'll see them both playing Bury next season.

- big wow. That is a 10 points deduction crime is it?

It is a total disgrace.

A Millwall, Duncan Ferguson, Dogs of War attitude is what's wanted, and I suspect Evertonians are the lots to deliver it.

Goodison's final season needs to be a seething cauldron of terror for visiting teams and bent officials.

I agree. Goodison needs to be a demonic pit of hell for any opposing club.

This is not the time for comparing us to Man City or anyone else. We need to appeal but accept we simply need to survive this season and we can do this.

The team is on the up. The stadium is getting built. We have new-found impetus in the team and the millstone is now lifted, it's 10 points. We just need to survive and fuck the lot of them.

But make no mistake, this is our own club's issue. It was us that spunked millions on dross players and we have managed ourselves into this situation. Thankfully we are turning a corner on and off the pitch.

UTFTs

1. The points deduction is very damaging, but not necessarily fatal.

2. That we got anywhere near this financial position is clear and undisputed evidence of total incompetence and naivety at boardroom level.

Now we carry our club once more through the fire. We all thought 2 years of it should've been enough, but turns out we have to do it one more time.

We've got the manager and squad now to do it. And let's show everyone why we're the best club and supporters in the land.

This is the inevitable result of 34 years of Kenwright destroying the club from within. Everton have been the worst run club in the 92-club pyramid for years.

After the positive improvement from the team, the squad must be feeling shattered by this and have to sit around for a week- which may or not be a good thing.

Positivity is the key and it starts now. No surrender. All Together Now!!!! COYB

Shame on the club if there is any reference to this gimp on the new Stadium,

I look forwards to Man City being placed in the Conference League for their discrepancies (at least they actually benefited from their breaches).

The Game is rancid to the core.

However, it is also a damning verdict on the running of the club. I can't believe some people want to name a stand after one of the people responsible for this. Let this be their true legacy and not be forgotten.

I think the Premier League know exactly what they are doing.

Man City and Chelsea will get hit with the same book.

Teams are spending stupid amounts of money and have unsustainable wage bills. It's insane. I think the Premier League recognizes this can't continue. They're going to be very, very harsh with any profitability and sustainability rules that have been broken.

This will send a clear message to any Premier League team not to get crafty with finances or overspend.

And Everton, bless them, put themselves in this position. Anger is being directed at the Premier League on this thread when it should be directed inward at ownership who executed a litany of financial moves and expenditures that weren't feasible.

We've been completed mis-run, if that's a word. It's shameful, and the entire Board should be sacked and the owner run out of town. This level of financial mismanagement is so incredibly unethical and frankly stupid.

Relegated clubs have applied for compensation.

The chair of the commission, David Phillips KC, also referenced applications for financial compensation from current Premier League clubs Burnley and Nottingham Forest and last season's relegated sides, Leicester City, Leeds United and Southampton.

Phillips said he was "satisfied that the applicant clubs have potential claims for compensation" - but noted the commission holds no "inherent jurisdiction" and it is instead "the role of the Premier League to bring and prosecute complaints".

Someone has said that Everton are looking to get the points deduction suspended. I can see why they would do that, but it wouldn't change the fact that those points are going to be removed.

I'm putting the heating on – someone just said it's minus 10.

1. Hiding from their responsibilities.
2. Busy supporting a warlord.
3. No longer with us.

"I hope poor Bill Kenwright has a word with Jesus Christ and gets things put right' … Fuckin hell!

The Premier League and Football Association will have to step up soon with a statement or they simply lose my interest. I will be singularly focused on Everton recovering from this incident and simply won't be bothered with any other outcomes. I may watch but I doubt that will last past a couple of viewings of clubs that get away with larger-scale tricks.

We could circulate some actual names of individuals who served this cause of restoring the Premier League's image. The show is over, let's have a chat with the stars and monitor their continued leadership on this matter. The Premier League seems so impersonal.

Batter lowly Everton with a big hit and hope the ‘problem' goes away, then, back to the status quo, ie, Man City and the money-making rich kids can continue as they were.

Yet they give us a sporting punishment. Aye? How so?

On the flipside, Simon Jordan suggested Everton don't dispute the crime, but the severity.

What is 'the crime' then? Is it the spending and losses? Or the tax issue?

The spending is over. But didn't Everton work with the Premier League? The penalty is massively severe. Massively.

The Premier League are clearly flexing their muscle and making an example of Everton. But, are they acting with integrity? What happened to the scum 6 trying to form the European Super League?

Look at their penalty. There was no points deduction, you can't punish the fans!

What about the other clubs who have financial fair play open secrets (Man City, Chelsea) far worse than Everton. One of Chelsea's punishments was a transfer ban. Why did we not get a transfer ban?

And exactly where do we stand when the other clubs, Burnley, Leicester, Leeds etc, come knocking on our door?

Everton need to fight this and call out the Premier League.

Fuck the lot of em — UTFT!!!

The FA needs to get the appeal heard well before the end of the season.

Surely there are other legal avenues too. Court of Arbitration etc. Could it be that we end up ending the season not knowing which league we'll be in next season?

If we are relegated over this, I think I'll actually give up on football all together. My season ticket will go and I'll never watch another game. Football. The game is corrupt and has been ruined by money. The fact offences over 9 years ago have not yet been heard yet ours was fast-tracked shows you how corrupt the game is.

Looks great, we are going to kick the fuck out of them all and climb our way back. My 90s childlike hate for any club richer than us just got revived.

UTFT! Fuck the suits!

I think you're being far too lenient on the Premier League, it's not as if Everton weren't cooperating with it, and until the Government began shouting about independent regulators, the same league was more than happy with what the club were doing and how it was doing it. Covid hit every club; losses of sponsorship due to the sanctions imposed because of the Ukraine war, did not.

The 10-point deduction is bad enough, but what Paul refers to above is far more concerning as Everton being dragged through the courts by rival clubs could be catastrophic for our club and indeed the football industry.

Of course the owner and the board are culpable for the decisions they made, whether they were made deliberately or naively, and none of those who put us in this situation will be here this time next year, but the real question would be, will Everton remain in place?

Instead “There is no fixed formula to be applied: we are required to determine the extent of the culpability, and from that to determine the points deduction. That requires the exercise of our discretion as a specialist panel, and a determination to be made based on all the facts of the case.”

No transparency whatsoever, a purely subjective call. In what other line of business does a “professional” administrative body have such opaque power as to be able to potentially destroy a member? In this digital age with increased demands for transparency, the Premier League looks unfit for purpose. Their severe sanctions have come from little more than “smoke-filled rooms”. It stinks.

If this is true, and we know how Sky love to sensationalize everything, it is going to get very, very messy.

I am not saying we should go unpunished, I am demanding consistent punishments.

Ray,

If the Premier League can show that they can keep their house in order, then they hope to avoid the interference.

I couldn't agree more with either of these statements and sentiments.

The reality is Everton, quite unfortunately, are first up to bat. So, we got absolutely hammered.

I have to believe, despite eons of favoritism shown to the "bigger" clubs, there will be consistency of punishment.

We will have to wait and see what happens with Man City and Chelsea. I think they will both incur similar points deductions. Both clubs will easily stay up with this level of deduction, Everton are a different matter.

If the Premier League does as I expect, which again I understand might seem remarkable to some, and stay consistent with their penalties, there's nothing to see here.

Any league in sport must be well run financially, and they must ensure their members run a clean ship financially. The Premier League should enforce those rules equally across all member clubs. I honestly think they will, call me naive. I think they see a 15-year robust economy coming to an end soon, and they have to get their member clubs in order and send a message for the future.

And lastly, and certainly not least, it is the ownership of Everton that put us in this shithole of a place. We fucked ourselves. That woman from Game of Thrones is standing over Bill's grave and in front of Moshri's house, ringing in cadence said bell, saying, "Shame! Shame! Shame!"

Put pressure on the Premier League. Do they really want to see Everton go out of business over this? It would rock the Premier League to its core.

Time to take a gun to the gunfight.

I was always under the impression it was a club decision but evidently it wasn't. In which case, why did the FA ban him when a multitude of other players arrested, and some who unlike Sigurdsson actually went on trial were not banned and continued to play for their clubs?

Again, one rule for Man City, Arsenal, Man Utd and another for Everton. Also, had we sued Sigurdsson and he somehow coughed up £10 million, what would have happened when he was released without ever facing any charges? Would we have had to pay him back?

Also, who is Player Y? We gave Calvert-Lewin a new contract in March and the panel says Player Y got a new contract during the summer.

Of course we can win enough points to stay up but we don't know how the season will pan out. Referee and VAR bad decisions plague us. Injuries are never far away, and what will we be able to spend in January?

There is no way we can take a chance on winning enough points in this corrupt league. It is make or break time legally.

The 'crime' was 21-22, if Everton had have been relegated instead of Burnley, who knows where Burnley would have finished last season?

Anyway, Leeds finished 19th, how do we affect them?

Player Y is Richarlison I guess.

The Premier League most definitely has issues with consistency of the application of sanctions in most forms.

What I'm saying is two things:

1. I do understand why they've done this, and think they've made the decision to put their foot down moving forward for any club; and,

2. We put ourselves in this mess. Some responsibility must be owned for our financial idiocy.

I knew they would come after Everton simply because we are too transparent in our corruption. Many teams in the Premier League and Championship, in addition to Man City and Chelsea in the Premier League obviously, have breached P&S rules.

Man City and Chelsea, I am guessing, likely have used shell companies or other disguise devices to kick Premier League investigations into the long, long grass.

As other Everton content providers have said, the 6 left to start the Super League and then come back with promises of no sanctions, as it would hurt the fans: the narrative.

Newcastle ownership was put through apparently when everyone was asleep, this tactic is not unusual for putting secondary law through.

Is it time to adorn our tinfoil hats or is there a "Hate Everton" agenda narrative? 10-point deduction since the Premier League starting circa 20 years ago.

If this was Liverpool in Everton's position, or Chelsea, or Man City, would it be the same punishment.... answers on a digital micro stamp. The Premier League needs the so-called Top 6, so No is the probable answer.

Why would they want to relegate us? The only people at fault are the owner and our useless board. We are a badly run football club and now it's biting us on our arse.

Man City and Chelsea will also get their penalties if and when found guilty but I honestly can't believe the Premier League has it in for us, the blame for this rests with Moshiri.

Had this points deduction been applied last season, then we would have gone down, and Leicester would have stayed up, so sue the Premier League for taking so fucking long to get it sorted.

And besides, on what grounds have Leeds and Southampton got for suing? After all, they would still have gone down. And why Nottm Forest, what grounds have they got?

"Filled with rage and without fear for his own life, the berserker (insert 'Evertonian' here) cast himself into the midst of the battle arousing terror amongst friends and foes alike. The word may also refer to the fact that the fighters had a bear's strength and wildness. They were even known to bite their own shields out of pure rage."

Let bastards have it - both barrels.

Would just looove to be at Goodison a week on Sunday. Anyone can't make it - I'm begging for your ticket...!

Chelsea and Man City will get their punishment? When? Man City are 20 points clear and lifted the trophy for the world to see! Chelsea 20 points clear from the drop zone.

Let's hope the European Super League comes soon.

For fuck's sake, it must be our fault for 2 world wars for winning the Football League in 1915 and 1939!

See #61 for a link to the full report.

That's to bring in a classy lawyer who will see through all of this bullshit and use Man City, Chelsea etc as our main argument against this charge.

Accepting this decision is the equivalent of the club betraying its loyal supporters.

Sick to my stomach at the people running things. Man City have been doping the whole thing for 10 years with blood money, we've run £6 million over the threshold for three years running and get a 10-point deduction (at a time when every point is precious).

Don't let anyone ever tell you they aren't out to get us. They are.

The Premier League didn't need to fine us as they have made us sitting ducks for a multi-million lawsuit.

Everton haven't got a pot to piss in. In equity jurisdiction, can take what we have if not sue us financially. Take Keane.

One thing I've learned over my 16, near 17 years of ‘Merican adopted fandom about Scousers: fuckers will circle the wagons like no other group of people I've ever encountered.

The remainder of this season will see rabid fans fighting for their beloved Club's survival.

Of that I have no doubt.

We are embarking on a beautiful season honestly. The level of passion and cornered-animal-will-to-survive will be off the charts. It will be glorious in its own way.

Backs to the wall? Looking down the abyss?

Scouser says, “Hold my beer, cunt.”

But the Commission's report at paras 84-90 seem to say they rejected this Premier League steer and will impose whatever sanctions as they see fit.

Am I missing something?

Off the pitch by the club and those unrivalled supporters.

On the pitch by the players.

Ram it right down their throats.

Spirit. Forever. You'll never take my Everton away.

Same goes for the previous season if it applies, but I can't recall the clubs (allegedly) affected.

Saudi oil giant Aramco 'set to be Fifa £84M-a-year sponsor' as fans say 'football is finished'

The siege mentality and noise both home and away will indeed be off the charts.

This could indeed be one of the most memorable 26-game run-ins the club has ever seen.

Bring it on!

Man City will walk away with, at worst, a very manageable punishment. It's political, they're too important and the Premier League will always cave in to the demands of the government (eg, Newcastle takeover and no subsequent investigation when their real ownership became public knowledge). Don't expect justice.

Lots of easy money being handed out there for doing very little, I suspect.

We should fight them all the way. The famous saying from Animal Farm applies to the Premier League: ‘We are all equal but some are more equal than others".

If we ever needed a better incentive, then this points deduction has provided it.

So now we continue our recent “going forward, positive playing style” and climb back up the table.

COYBs — we are with you!

Will the chairmen of other Premier League clubs continue to ask themselves "What would Everton do?"

It looks like our chairman asked himself "What would Peter Risdale do?"

Maybe a bit of retribution from the Premier League flagship masters…

Either the club as a whole rolls their sleeves up and gives everything for every second of all games left and then throws a collective V-sign to the Premier League.

Or they deflate like a balloon and throw the towel in.

We need the real Everton to stand up from here on in.

That's another very important aspect to point out: there are 26 games remaining in the season, and we're only 2 points from safety after a 10-point deduction.

Polishing an elephant turd, this couldn't happen at a better time.

One of Luton Town, Sheffield, Burnley, or Everton will stay up, and we've spotted them 2 points.

If we do what we are capable of on the pitch, we will survive.

But we should definitely threaten to sue the Premier League. I believe it's acknowledged that we didn't gain any advantage. So how can they justify a points deduction?

If we lose places and Premier League status, they should need to financially compensate us millions!

Also, if found guilty once, do we now have free reign to spend however much we want in January?

Does double jeopardy cover businesses?

All the teams below 16th around us have massively inferior goal differences!

Trying to be positive here, fuck em all we are Everton we can and will survive NSNO

Or maybe one of the toilet blocks on the South Stand concourse which every fan could visit at some point and pay their respects.

If they, after this, name a stand after Bill, it should be burned down.

And note some aggravating factors: overspend despite warnings; misleading statement about stadium interest.

Will the likes of Onana, Pickford, Dominic et al, want to remain here should we still be in the relegation mire come the next window?

Will the club have to sell those players at knock-down prices due to our financial predicament?

This points deduction is far more reaching than the actual amount of points we can accrue, it's tantamount to destroying a long-established football club. We probably got the points deduction because any significant fine would likely have pushed us into administration, which could still be a possibility, so we get punished twice over.

Where is the Owner and why hasn't he spoken about this dire situation?

Siege mentality at home and away and let's revert to the Dogs of War campaign tactics.

Man City, Chelsea and the rest must be quaking in their boots after seeing this exceptionally harsh punishment for quite frankly a pittance over the allowed P&S limits.

Fuck everyone else COYB!!!

Even if this appeal reduces the punishment, this should never be forgotten.

I can guarantee the Manchester United will not be fancying Goodison next week.

By Christmas, we'll be back out of the relegation zone with the appeal still to happen.

All we can do is focus on the football and results.

And who pays the price? We do. The fans who have followed the club through thick and thin. Screwed over just like the population are by corrupt politicians.

We can get through this. Dyche is doing a great job and the team are playing well.

Logic would suggest Man City and Chelsea will be next but then there is nothing logical about the Premier League governance.

Whilst Everton do appear to have been terribly run, it does show the club were in open discussions for some time with the Premier League and ultimately what's happened is that some factors Everton clearly considered mitigating (and thought Premier League were or would accept, presumably under advice or indication) have been thrown out:

i) Early stadium costs (typically these are capitalised and as such outside PSR). The first c.£30-40M of stadium work pre formal planning permission (which it appears other clubs have historically got away with) has been discounted by the Premier League.

ii) Sigurdsson (Player X) – a player Everton bought for £50M and paid a ton of wages, was suddenly removed as an asset due to criminal charges (which were subsequently not upheld). Everton have put a value on this, suing the player at £10M – again this has been discounted. Not sure if there's any legitimacy to our claim here, but it's a pretty unique case.

iii) USM sponsorship and naming rights (at least £10M a season) was effectively removed unexpectedly from Everton's income due to the Russia - Ukraine conflict. This surely is a mitigating fact.

iv) Player trading assets were not as expected (partly due to Covid - maybe), but I think it's also partly due to PSR itself. When other clubs know we have to sell = suppressed prices.

v) Lower than expect performance and merit income (they projected Top 8, finished much lower) – not really much of a case here tbh.

There's a few other bits in there too, but the main argument is Everton think the P&S calculation was closer to £88M, the Premier League actually increased it from £120M to £124.5M, hence a £19.5M deficit vs the £105M 'allowed' loss.

I do think some of Everton's points hold water (or are at least credible mitigations), but I also think there's some fundamental flaws with the commission's approach.

The formula they've applied (which didn't actually exist in a any formal way before) is 6 points for a breach and 1 point for every £5M excess, hence the 10 points.

This is based on the same model used in a sanction by the EFL but is highly dubious because a) it was never previously agreed or stated in any Premier League rules or documentation (so it's 'precedent' not law) and b) this sort of suggests the economics of the Premier League are directly comparable with the Championship (which is patently not the case).

Because of the above, I think there's a decent possibility this could get appealed down to a 6-8 point deduction on appeal. Still harsh, but it will maybe satisfy both sides.

The bigger problem here for Everton (and the whole PSR issue really) is that the case opens up a series of other cases with relegated clubs... which are financial in nature and in themselves lay a Premier League club (us) open to further financial risk.

If the 3 relegated clubs last year manage to get £50M each say (unlikely but who knows), that's £150M the club has to find. Also, how the hell does that count towards future PSR calculations?

Obviously not a view shared by Premier League when dealing with Super 6 League breakers?

Not like for like, but here's what Man Utd got from Uefa for their breach of FFP rules, citing Covid as a reason for their transgression.

UEFA has fined Manchester United €300,000 (£256,785) for breaching Financial Fair Play rules over a four-year period between 2019 and 2022. Erik ten Hag has been handed a smaller summer transfer budget to work with despite the club publishing financial results last month, with revenue up by 11 per cent. Man United blame historic issues and previous FFP rules for the fine.

I think some of you thought I was joking about the Premier League seeking further penalties for the Xavier the loving mascot incident. I was but now I'm wondering about it.

Fuck the Premier League, the Sky sweethearts, Liverpool, Man Utd and fuck our incompetent lying owners. We'll stand and fight alone and will not yield! Rage and defiance is the answer. And fuck Leicester too.

No relegated club can sue us. They can only sue the Premier League. And I hope they do.

“The formula they've applied (which didn't actually exist in a any formal way before) is 6 points for a breach and 1 point for every £5M excess, hence the 10 points

This is based on the same model used in a sanction by the EFL but is highly dubious because a) it was never previously agreed or stated in any Premier League rules or documentation (so it's 'precedent' not law) and b) this sort of suggests the economics of the Premier League are directly comparable with the Championship (which is patently not the case).”

They've made the punishment up as they went along, they actually had no guidelines for punishment, so they used an existing one from somewhere else.

The printer was short of ink – we couldn't afford a new cartridge – and it read 6th when it meant to read 16th. That's what I'd have said anyway.

I'm dumbfounded by the intrusive nature of the commission's remit, this list of players for sale, amended list of players for sale, means we mislead the Premier League.

Can we all see similar from other Premier League clubs. I thought football clubs were private businesses? Would the tax-man have access to every commercial detail?

Now that would be the (English football) story of the season and a fine way to put two fingers up to the corrupt Premier League?

I envisage the noise around Everton to be such that some of our opponents won't know what's hit them: I feel we have exacyly the right man in the job to galvanize the team, and we must do our job of supporting the manager and players as best we can to get through this crisis – before the game, during the game, after the game and across all social and broadcast media.

Toffee TV reporting that just short of £8k already crowdfunded to fund protest banners. It's getting interesting already.

If Man City ever get done, the Premier League will probably give the RS about 5 extra titles!

"The commission took into account Moshiri's mitigation that '“we had no midfield”'.

Yes, a bizarre statement from Moshiri!

As there are many things that need to be equal for justice to be fairly applied, the biggest issue has to be Man City continuing to stave off judgement never mind punishment, for much larger transgressions. That impasse shouldn't be allowed to continue but, whilst it is, all other cases should be held in abeyance as well.

So sick of seeing us hit with harsh “sending a message” punishments only to see others get a much watered-down version.

Any media outlet that hasn't worked out we could only affect the fate of one other club that was relegated per year shouldn't be allowed to broadcast on the subject as they are spreading ‘fake' news.

I believe we'll be okay as I can't see the likes of our manager and senior players being defeatist. All we have to do is continue as we are and we'll come through this. And if the report says we gained no sporting advantage, the clubs trying to sue us won't get far either.

UTFT

We didn't make the rules, and we couldn't have deducted 10 points from ourselves last season.

It's the corrupt Premier League they should be suing; and we should be doing all we legally can to help Ipswich and Southampton to gain promotion, just to rub it into the 'Slimy Foxes' and Leeds.

1994-95 we started with 8 losses and 4 draws, we had our first win after 13 games! That year we survived and we won the cup!

We can do it again. Goodison must become hell from now on, we can really do it!

As a retired veteran of many court battles, I can not help but conclude that those making the decision decided they couldn't give 12 as it would be all too obvious and cosy. Rather, knock a couple of points off so they can claim to have taken an independent and unbiased view.

It all stinks. Hopefully the appeals process will proceed quickly.

Another part of the case was that Everton had submitted a list of players who the club were willing or trying to sell, when the list was re submitted one player was missing off the list, Player Y.

When asked to explain this, the club replied that the club were still willing or trying to sell the player but Chairman Bill Kenwright had taken over the job of trying to sell this player. It never explained why this was the case, seems strange to me.

Fuck them.

We'll stay up anyway and shove it up their asses in our new stadium.

We all know the competition is bent, and rotten. So let's get some banners out there asking:

Why so long to investigate Man City?
Why only fines dished out to the Shite 6 who resigned from the competition?
Why is VAR being used to preserve the status quo at the top?

Anything else we don't like… We're not going down without a fight, are we?
UTFT !

And with the appeal, the points reduction will be reduced.

We win games and ram it right in their face.

I think the song about the Tories sung at the away matches may well get adapted to accommodate the Premier League.

Over £5000 raised for banners for the Manchester United match.

Fight blues. There's only one winner here and we've got a Quarter Final next month.

We will survive!!!!

We have been stitched up by those feckers.

Please answer why the Mancs can be £1billion in debt but it does not show in P&L?

You've Just penned the new blue army song:

"You can stick your ten points.
Stick your ten points.
Stick your ten points up your arse"

The talismanic Coleman returning will do a lot to save us from the threat of the drop, and if Leicester are promoted, I hope they get the most hostile Everton reception since the Leeds sides in the 70s next season.

What a president the dickhead's have gone and set, ie, 1 misdemeanour = immediate 10 points deduction… 115 misdemeanours = ??????? diplomatic immunity.

Ah well, it could have been worse… couldn't it??

Who is investigating this leak, the Premier League? Don't think so as they leaked it!

Corrupt to the core and brazen with it, they are untouchable, because they make the rules, and they take the backhanders.

The worst-run club in the country.

We will prevail, of that I am sure!

Thank God we have Dyche at the helm and as such a decent chance of taking the hit and still avoiding the drop.

Siege mentality will prevail and just imagine how sweet it would be if we survived and maybe even won a cup despite this travesty.

In a day or two, when everyone connected to Everton and those outside observers from other clubs and the media have had their say, the club and supporters should together take a breath.

The club, supporters and players should be as one collective.

Let the club look after appeals and other stuff which will be totally ignored by the Premier League.

The collective should approach every game, home and away, as an attack as would be on our family. We should treat every fuckwit home and away with hatred, bile, scorn — whatever, you name it.

Whether it be a team, a ground, an opposition supporter, an official, anyone and everyone as an enemy.

Excuse the language but everything and everyone who is not Blue should be fucked right off!

It's obviously far worse to breach some entirely arbitrary financial limit during a time of unprecedented turmoil and financial upheaval and to have a marginally different method for valuation of assets.

Especially when it is perfectly obvious that the rules have been set up to protect those clubs with regular access to additional income (the shitty Champions League) from ever having to compete with teams whose owners decide to spend money on the teams.

The Premier League may be looking to stave off government regulators but, if anything, the arbitrary way this has been decided actually makes it more likely that the government would see a need for proper investigation into the cesspool.

Finally, the club, under Bill's stewardship, saw Moshiri (and Usmanov) as our saviours. We fans were equally delighted at our new-found sugar daddy, and we proceeded to waste money on dross left, right and centre.

Indeed, despite not being anywhere near the real big spenders over a decade, we attracted scrutiny, spending money in a short space of time. The Russian war and Covid played their part but, let's face it, we were an easy target for the media.

Of course the punishment seems harsh and the KCs on the commission are not "football" people. One of the committee has experience of football finance. With no precedent, it might be arguable to change the punishment.

Some of the details that pushed us into trouble like Sigurdsson's pay and the unnamed contract for Player Y are particularly arbitrary.

Personally, I have been fed-up with the Premier League for years and I think most neutral fans see the clear scapegoating being done here.

They picked on us at a time when we were at our most vulnerable. They leaked the possible deduction on the day our Chairman died.

Someone high up sees us as a threat to the cozy gravy train.
We have to react, and put two fingers up to these bullies.

I hope this link works for you.

The 1878s - Atmosphere fund

1. Get behind Sean Dyche, properly get behind him, his staff and the team. Whatever team he selects, we must show our unequivocal support.

2. Make noise, plenty of it and let every non-Evertonian know that we intend to scrap for every point, and how.

We cannot show weakness, we must hold our heads high. If they're not a Blue, then they are against us. The Dogs of War mentality must prevail. This can be our finest hour.

Horrible comment which lacks any class.

The system is flawed anyway. The top 4 get most Premier League money most sponsorship Champions League money and most TV rights money so they can all spend more without breaching the P&S rules.

To break the status quo, you need to spend more than you are allowed. Is there anyone with a brain who doesn't understand this? If Farhad wants to spend this money, why cant he? Man City and Chelsea only broke through by doing this.

The Premier League can fuck off massive. Love Everton 💙 even more if that's possible and Dyche is the man to handle this.

I absolutely despise these Premier League southern Tory kopites with every fibre of my being and I hope the lot of them burn in hell, the greedy fucking corrupt twats. They've been after us for years, tell me otherwise.

And all the while they bend over backwards for their chosen few, who almost left a few years ago and didn't pay one single fine, face any points deduction, nothing. Why? Because these cunts are only interested in their product and their brand and that's it, and those clubs can do what they like.

Fuck you, Premier League. Fuck you!

Actually, I'm probably unusual in that I don't want to see anything done against Man City or Chelsea, I want to see football results achieved on the pitch, not in some shitty in camera hearing of a bunch of shyster lawyers whose main objective (as with the Covid "enquiry") is to maximize fees through stringing the matter out as long as possible.

And I wish we could get rid of the wind-up merchant on the Live Forum – a big test for him (it) next game.

1. Covid.

2. War in Ukraine – meaning we lost money from Usmanov naming rights.

3 Change halfway through season in what is tax-deductible, ie, Previous to change, the interest from loans wasn't relevant.

4. Soaring interest rates.

5. According to reports, we've consulted continously with Premier League.

So why have the Premier League changed their stance?? Trying to flex muscles…

We need to stick together and support the club, not stick the knife in a dead man.

And as many have already said, we shall overcome -– we hope!

We can, of course, and what should be our focus, appeal the actual sanction which seems on the face of it disproportionate.

Also, the sense of injustice should galvanise the team and the fans to make sure relegation is avoided.

I agree with Big Nev, suck it up and control our own destiny.
Self-pity won't help us but some channeled anger definitely will.

Let's stick this right those corrupt fuckers.

Can't wait for the banners!

Colin, 59, yes, I also took note of pars 101 to 104. Likewise, 137 to 138.

Misjudgments were made. The club admitted a breach. So, yes, a punishment. But 10 points? I was expecting an explanation of the reasoning for that.

After all, it does say: Click here to read the independent Commission's FULL written reasons (my CAPS). But, no, just drops it like a massive fartbomb.

Curious to note in par 88 a passing reference to "a regulator". Who was that directed at?

Anyway, our next game is against a club with three times our annual revenue. Financial fair play, anyone?

Also, why do the whingers, eg, Leeds etc, complain? They went down because they were not good enough. At the time, Everton were not guilty of anything.

Everton Hit With 10-Point Deduction For Being A Bunch Of Jagoffs

We'll probably appeal and get upgraded to 20 points knowing our luck.

No mitigating circumstances were accepted so maybe the 10 points was not that unreasonable.

How they can disallow £30M on stadium spending because it was before Planning Permission is ridiculous – never mind some of the other items that make up the loss.

Whatever the ultimate outcome, this case has opened up a can of worms for the sporting integrity of the Premier League as a whole. A new money spinner would be live TV coverage of commission hearings because there will be plenty of them in the future.

Lawyers and accountants must be rubbing their hands with glee.

I'm quite happy to take the punishment as long as other punishments to other clubs are relevant to their charges. I very much doubt they will.

I'm not sure Moshiri is strictly a businessman it the strictest sense of the word as he seems more of an Usmanov side shoot.

Also, the club needs to voice its opinion more and provide the fans with further information on what it provided to the Premier League during the time in question. Publish any communications that paint the Premier League in a bad light.

Also question the ongoing investigations into other clubs. We need to stop being nice.

However, at least we have time to do something about it with 28 games still to play and we are now in a much improved situation – footballwise – than we were at any time last season.

As Paul states (199) it's acceptable providing appropriate sanctions are handed out to other guilty outfits.

Okay, the finances were not what they should have been but why oh why punish the players? They've battled hard enough this season to reach 14 points.

A fine would have been fairer. Unbelievable.

We should form a breakaway league – you only get fined £5M for that.

Man City will buy their way out of 115 offences – the Premier League has a price.

There are only 26 games remaining. If we win 20 we could be in the Champions League. :)

Maybe that's back on… They must be bricking it right now!

Stuff em all… I think we will stay up. COYB

Mike, I think that's a reference to the government's proposed regulator they want to set up for the financial etc side of football, and the report is an attempt by the Premier League to retain control (or at least start to have control!) over such matters, rather than lose control to the government.

Don't expect the appeal to be successful.

Just had Matt Slater from The Athletic on the radio and he was asked about the Man City and Chelsea situation. He said nothing about Chelsea and seemed to find it reasonable that the obviously guilty Man City can apparently avoid punishment indefinitely just because their transgressions are so complicated. How can any justice be served on others whilst they continue to accrue prestige through their ill-gotten competitive advantages?

They are all saying we will be alright anyway, ignoring the fact we have a wafer-thin squad at present and could easily get derailed as the season progresses.

Are you the same people who said "We can't possibly get a points deduction. It will be a fine or a suspended points deduction, or both”? You obviously know more than the rest of us … not,

Stop the wishful thinking and wait for the actual outcome of any future proceedings.

Kieran (92) - Agree.

At the time, "Everton stated that they 'suspended a first-team player pending a police investigation', but did not confirm if it was the same player arrested by GMP."

In today's report, "In July 2021 Player X was arrested. The FA suspended Player X from all football activity, making it impossible for him to perform his contractual duties. On 23 August 2021 Everton dismissed Player X. Everton sought advice on the possibility of suing Player X for breach of contract but elected not to do so."

Player Y, though? Is that Calvert-Lewin? Or Richarlison maybe? Both got new contracts around that time, but not in the Summer of 2020. Maybe that's when the new contract kicked in.

Some excuse will be found where their alleged breaches of the rules were in fact not really breaches at all just a misunderstanding and anyway they have sacked the finance clerk or turnstile operator responsible and promise not to do it again. So everything's all right then!

It's those cheating Everton bastards we needed to make an example of, so job done!

As for the Super League conspirators, well, they were led astray by those dodgy European clubs and didn't really know what they were doing, but a slap on the wrist soon brought them back into the Premier League fold.

When world governments won't challenge Saudi Arabia, what do you reckon the Premier League will do to Man City? The word 'corruption' just doesn't hack it.

As someone once said “We live in interesting times.”

I think the "12 points to be chipped away..." etc is what happens in the Football League, and the Premier League are adopting a tariff with no maximum. See #170?

'On the three previous occasions when a Premier League club has had as few as four points after 12 games, Everton in 1994-95 were the only side to stay up.'

Seems we created another first, just need to do it again!

What's more remarkable is that we won the cup in 95.

Pep Guardiola, Haaland – all poster boys for the product and Premier League subscriptions. On the Sky billboard near my work, I just see pictures of Man City players – not Everton.

It suits them to have a Premier League team dominating World football. It's good for the product, it's good for business – and, for the Premier League right now, business is good.

As for Everton, we're a big enough footballing relic to make an example of. In the Premier League's eyes, we just help make the numbers up.

Not in our lifetimes will the Sky 6 get called out.

Watch Man City and Chelsea get away with it and watch Newcastle owners get round limitations on what they will be allowed in future sponsorships. Believe there is a multi-million-pound deal next year, way above the norm – a La City with their £400M Eithad deal, x years ago!!!!

I too thought it might be Richarlison, but having checked ToffeeWeb's archives, he signed his 12-month extension in December 2019, but of course you could be correct in stating it ran from the following summer.

If ever players who wear our shirt have to stand up and be countered as one of us, it has to start next weekend.

Players are rolled out every week giving us all the bullshit about how much they love us and the club while they pocket thousands a week and tell us one day they'd like to play for a “top” club.

Well shut the fuck up and translate what we feel onto the pitch. Let's get ourselves out of this shit rather than depend on appeals and all the other crap.

Hate and bile towards everything non-Blue every game.

So they said we couldn't offset anything for interest against the P&S rules because Moshiri lent the money for the stadium for free.

But if we'd have borrowed the same money from a bank we would have been able to offset the interest and we would not have breached the P& S rules.

For fuck's sake, we are building a stadium that will enhance the Premier League and is regenerating a whole area of a city, creating thousands of jobs and a better future for thousands of people. Cut us some slack!

Man City and West Ham got great deals on their stadiums already built for the Commonwealth Games and Olympics. I seem to remember Tottenham having access if required to a zero percent loan from the Bank of England when building theirs.

And they won't even consider letting Everton offset an agreed amount for interest off a stadium that we are struggling to pay for ourselves. Give us a break!

We have been given a completely unfair and disproportionate sanction. Recruit the world's best lawyers like Man City do for the appeal, and fight for it.

It is one hell of a weird league…

But tell us, how can another club sue Everton, when the document actually states: 'No sporting advantage was gained'?

I don't think we should take the punishment, it's too harsh.

I just think it's difficult to argue we didn't put ourselves in the position to be found guilty. We budgeted to finish 6th and finished 17th which was a difference of £26.5M.

That was a reckless gamble.

Pity this wasn't released next weekend, a day or so before we played at home against one of their darlings.

No surprise it's been released on an international break weekend. It's up to us to carry the momentum into next Sunday, a win would be a fantastic start to our ‘new' season.

Is the 10 points justified – that's the question, any reduction on our punishment will help.

For fuck sake, how did Moshiri become a billionaire? I actually don't believe he is – just a stooge for Usmanov.

Just read this simplified explanation on our trouble and it looks like Moshiri gambled and it all went pear-shaped.

“The cause of Everton's difficulties was the fact that it overspent (largely on its purchase of new players and its inability to sell other players), and because it finished lower in the league than it had projected … causing a loss of expected income of £21 million ($26 million)” the commission said.

“The reality” the commission added, “is that Everton failed to manage its finances so as to operate within the generous threshold” of $130 million.

Richarlison back on loan in January and definitely no player sales no matter what the fucking money is offered for the likes of Branthwaite no way should this owner be allowed to cash in.

Dele Alli to become a legend?

If we keep going as we are, then it won't fucking matter anyroad apart from league placings and the dosh it brings clubs...

Let's bag that League Cup – that would bring European footy at least!

I wonder if Citeh will get a similar fine!? 😂

If a Government led independent regulator felt club X, who was owned by a friendly nation-state, should be treated more favourably than a club whose owners were seen as unfriendly, for exactly the same transgressions, the Premier League would be compromised to carry out such recommendations?

It looks like this may have already happened in Everton's case, unfriendly ownership albeit once removed and boom, we lose 10 points, do not pass Go, etc.

English football clubs will not face sporting sanctions from independent regulator, government says

My instinct tells me: bad idea to appeal. It's not quite, perhaps, as some of us thought. We are actually not that far away from the £105m, even using the Premier League's and Commission's version.

But what came out is that this is not some sort of target to aim for as a minimum, which we seemed to be doing, but an absolute ceiling to give you lots of scope, in the event of disputes. A breach technically happens at £15M. Go over the ceiling of £105M, which is supposed to give you masses of leeway, and you are in big trouble.

What comes across in terms of our approach is ineptitude (how we handled the stadium financing early stages and the interest on loans) and frankly wishful thinking. The point about Sigurdsson was not about wages, he was apparently dismissed a month after he was arrested. It was because we didn't sue him for £10M for lost transfer value.

We claimed we wanted to sell 'Player Y' in 2020 but couldn't because of Covid. Appears to be either Calvert-Lewin or Keane. Kenwright was supposedly handling it. The commission brushed these off as the vagaries and risks of running a football club.

We ended up in agreeing we were over but these and other examples were given as mitigation. And given short shrift. As was our co-operation. This was actually framed as us acting in self-interest and supplying incorrect and misleading info. It appears we did this. The only mitigating factor, a small one, is that our losses were trending in the right direction.

I think we should move on. Brief the lawyers to prepare for being sued by the relegated clubs. Actually, what reading the findings led me to think is why bother with these rules in the first place? It is just pulling up the drawbridge.

If Moshiri was not an utter incompetent, along with our Chairman and CEO, this sort of investment might just have got us back into the big time. And what is wrong with doing that?

We need a banner with one massive ‘arse' in the middle of it flying proudly across the main stand to show what we think.

And then take it around the country on away days.

UTFT!

Part of me now thinks, fuck it, we're still better than all the teams in the bottom half and we're only 2 points behind Luton with a far superior goal difference so the Premier League can go fuck themselves and we'll stay up despite them.

Shit like this will only galvanise us like a Phil Neville tackle.

I can't wait till the Man Utd game now.

Thought so…… !

Total hypocrisy.

The very best they might hope for is a reduced points penalty if they can successfully emphasise mitigating circumstances. However, they've already tried that without success and the Commission was more convinced by the Premier League suggesting there were aggravating circumstances.

For example, they agreed with the Premier League that the club didn't act in good faith over the treatment of interest that could have been incurred had commercial loans, rather than Moshiri's interest-free loans, been taken out for costs incurred before planning permission for the new stadium was granted. A tortuous point, but it sort of makes sense if you read the judgement.

Two interesting issues that I wasn't aware of, and apologies if these are covered in the comments above;

Player X (Gylfi Sigurdsson) was arrested in July 2021, suspended by the FA almost immediately, and dismissed by Everton on 23 August 2021.

As an aside, I wasn't aware he'd been suspended by the FA, or that the club sacked him so soon. I understood he remained on the books until his contract expired in June 2022. Does that mean the club stopped paying him in August 2021? Did I miss this?

In any event, as part of the PSR calculation, Everton claimed £10M that they might have collected from Gylfi had they chosen to sue him for breach of contract. But they decided not to sue him! Needless to say, the Premier League wouldn't allow that.

Everton also claimed Covid prevented them selling Player Y in summer 2020. Apparently Player Y was one of eight players named on Brands's summer 2020 transfer strategy document to be sold to raise £80M. But he then mysteriously disappeared from a later version of the strategy document, apparently “because Bill Kenwright was handling his sale”!

Player Y was then given a new contract during the same transfer window! Would love to know who player Y is. Again, unsurprisingly the Premier League wouldn't allow that against PSR.

Regardless, my view is there's never been a better time for a 10-point deduction and Dyche is exactly the right manager to forge an ‘Everton against the world' mentality over the next 6 months. Buckle up!

You daf cun.

I was criticised by several posters on here when I forecast before the season even started that we'd need enough points to cover a 12-point deduction. 'No such punishment exists', I was told. Suddenly, one emerged via a press leak and now the 'independent' panel has gone soft on us by only docking 10 points.

Like others, I've always maintained that we are the go-to club for selective punishments because we are not too big to pick on like the Sky 6, yet are too big to win the sympathy smaller clubs would get. Breakaway League? A mere slap on the wrist level fine split 6 ways, suspended and now virtually dismissed.

Half a billion spending courtesy of a key Putin ally bailing out? No problem. A billion in debt and in a crumbling stadium – no worries.

Over 100 financial charges to answer? – Leave it until the rules can be changed to accommodate eh.

Everton? – Let's throw the book at 'em.

The Premier League and its officials are all rotten and corrupt. They are killing the game and will soon relegate 14 teams to being match practice fodder for the Super League 6 through making it impossible for any other teams to genuinely compete either financially or on the field of play.

As for us, the mismanagement of our great club continues on its ever downward spiral. Once again, it's only the true owners of the club, the supporters, who will save us. Let's give the Mancs a game they won't forget.

Well hopefully this is the end of all the crap we have had to endure for many years.

With results getting better (and they have to stay that way) and new ownership (hopefully), we have something to give us the boost we need.

In retrospect, it was a shame we signed so many players without ever thinking nobody would buy them if they didn't perform, which many didn't. We still have a few getting wages and nothing in return.

It's not much compensation but we all hope others currently being investigated get done too and don't get off just because they carry a lot of clout financially. It has to be points deductions for them too although it won't be as big a problem as it may be for Everton.

I also hope the Everton lawyers will take scrutiny with the Premier League and take these showers of shites to the cleaners.

So, in view of Man City's 115 charges, they should be out of football for the next 50 years if parity is given, in view of the scale of their charges.

Everton will possibly face claims from Leeds, Burnley, Leicester, and who else?

But fuck the Premier League – Evertonian spirit is an unassailable force of nature, and Everton will get through this crisis, and become stronger.

Regards any takeover, this decision today could change the game but who really knows what is going on with the internal affairs of Everton FC?

UTFTs!

“I was criticised by several posters on here when I forecast before the season even started that we'd need enough points to cover a 12-point deduction. 'No such punishment exists' I was told. Suddenly one emerged via a press leak and now the 'independent' commission has gone soft on us by only docking 10 points.”

No such people exist… apparently.

Hmm... that means that ManCity, with over 100, will be battling Wrexham for promotion in League One... right?

Can the club approach the Premier League to issue a cease and desist order? That's of course only if it's impossible for the said clubs from taking legal action against Everton or any other member club.

Hanks man, I knew I could rely on you!

Julian@ 240

Exacly!

I think that the Premier League in their zeal to punish us have lost sight of what this means for the future. This will come back to hit them. I imagine that one of our lawyers is already working on a draft case when Man City's penalty, for one, is a slap on the sheikh's wrist.

How many 'confident' posters come on here with their 'confident' sources about what will happen to us? And not one of them mentioned 10 points and all of them completely misled us. One very vocal person on here in particular reassured us all recently down to an unimpeachable source that there would be no points deduction.

I have never predicted the outcome but I have said many times that we would not go down if we lost a dozen points. We won't. Dyche is the perfect manager for this position. He is known in the football world as a scrapper who gets his teams out of sticky situations. This one is tailor-made for Dyche.

This will be received by some in the footy world as comedy and a golden opportunity to gloat and take pot-shots at us. But for most in the footy world, this will be imagined, it might take a little while to think it through, as yet another example of hanging the ‘menu' clubs outside the cushioned Elysian Fields of the Sky half-dozen out to dry.

The vast majority of footy fans do not walk in these Elysian Fields. They might have a chuckle and a dig but then reality will sink in. We will become the poster-team for all that is wrong in the unethical and unequal corridors of the Premier League administrators and executives.

Reasons to be cheerful:

The Premier League here have provided the rope to hang themselves. Let's mix metaphors! They've opened up a slimy can of worms! This will come back to haunt the suits on North Wharf Road.

It has also guaranteed that we will not go down – much to the chagrin of said suits. This is the position and role that Dyche was put on this earth for and it will tighten an already tight team, club, and fan spirit and resolve.

It is very likely that we will become a metaphor for the double standards of unequal and unethical treatment by the North Wharf Road suits (and a verb: “to be Evertoned”) in the wider footy community. Proper newspaper reporting will swing behind us – the extent to which some on here rant and rave about The Guardian, for example is, quite frankly, embarrassing.

Will Unwin is already pumping out the potential double-standards on display and put the Premier League on watch and warning: “The decision has put into focus other Premier League investigations and how those clubs will be dealt with if also found guilty” (he mentions Man City and Chelsea by name).

Concerns (amongst others):

There is a near certainty that some or all of Leeds, Forest, Southampton, Leicester, Burnley will lodge compensation claims over the next week or so.

One part of the 777 Partners deal, I understand, is that the selling price will drop in the event of us being slapped with a penalty like this.

It is the finances over the next couple of years that really worry me but I'll leave that to better-informed folk than me to explore that particular nest of vipers. I am not worried on the footy side of things. What Dyche does and says from this day on will, I'm sure, earn himself a place in the hearts of Evertonians everywhere.

UTFT!

As well as a thundering and defiant backing of the boys at Goodison a week Sunday, I'm thinking a few impossible to ignore ‘The Premier League is corrupt' chants too?

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

I'm at anger stage at the moment.

Not sure what I'm going to be bargaining for but depression is near.

Our owner was a fucking accountant. Absoloute wanker.

This just becomes even more shocking. Shitbags making rules up as they go on.

Let's give 'em hell, Blues!!! 💙

Each club has 28 days to pursue a claim against Everton, who find themselves second from bottom, two points from safety, after the deduction. Any compensation award will be decided by the Premier League commission which investigated Everton's breach. — Source: The Guardian

Well, The Guardian says those other clubs are entitled to seek compensation after today's ruling – good luck with that, I don't think we have any money to give them, even if they are successful with their bids. Administration here we come!

Okay, I'm at the bargaining phase.

I rang the Premier League and said I paid good money for my season ticket and I don't deserve this. They told me to fuck off as there are political ramifications here and you are nothing but a puny supporter… Help!

The commission made it clear that the breach by us was not performance related, hence it had no bearing on other clubs.
I can't see how one of those clubs could successfully sue us.

The Premier League is as others have said totally corrupt. There is so much money in the game that it will always attract shady characters. Backhanders in transfer deals take place at all levels but, at the top of the game, the less scrupulous lawyers and accountants are like bees to a honeypot.

If the game is ever to be cleansed there is an awful lot of work to be done and FFP is not going to do it.

The NHS on Merseyside is already overstretched without Evertonians' blood pressure going through the roof.

I guess the argument of clubs other than Leicester could be not based on the final table but based on results. Most obviously if we beat Leeds, Burnley etc or even more tenuously if we say beat Chelsea they Chelsea were fired up and rebounded by hammering Leeds or Burnley.

That being said, when this first arose, it was said Premier League rules prevented clubs from suing one another, so is that not the case? Or is this lazy journalism and straw-clutching?

Luton, Burnley, Sheffield United, Bournemouth, Fulham, Crystal Palace – make the most of being above us (except Burnley), because you won't be above us for long.

From now on, Goodison Park is going to be one hotbed of a football stadium, and I really do think any team from now on coming to Goodison will wish they hadn't bothered. I really do wish our next game was against the shite, one of the Premier League's favourite teams, because they would have been crawling out of Goodison on their knees.

Still, Man Utd are next, and they are shite at the moment. So come on, come on, get down to Goodison Park, and let's show the Premier League they cannot, and will not, get this club relegated.

Premier League, you can shove your so-called Big Six clubs about as far up your arse as they will go. They have not been, or never will be, a bigger or better club than Everton Football Club.

For 145 years, EFC have been the Number One club in this country. We were founder members of the Football League, and founder members of the Premier League, and now they (the Premier League) want to treat us like shit. Well sorry, but it ain't happening. Take as many points of us as you like, because we will still survive.

So fuck them!!

My fear is that Chelsea and Man City will not be treated by the same criteria and will not be punished on a pro rata basis. They offer the Premier League reflected glory and that may save them.

Dyche and his squad have the chance to be heroes. This season is a free hit at glory.

Fucking bring it on!!!

Depression, I know, will come in the night. Sleep will be a chore and commitments tomorrow mean I have to put on a happy face (grandchild minding).

Oh, woe is me. I say to myself now, what is important in life? Family of course.

People can interpret the not-so-independent judgement all they like but the indisputable point is the punishment does not fit the crime.

Forming a new competition behind the backs of the Premier League is a far worse crime and the clubs involved were fined £4M each so our penalty should be less than a £4M fine.

That is the simple point that we need to focus on.

777 Partners are now looking at a vastly reduced price for buying Everton, if they still want to. 777 pay top dollar for the best sports lawyer to fight this nonsense. Win, pay Moshiri buttons, he doesn't even deserve buttons (an accountant? My arse!).

Win-win for 777 Partners and Everton. Yeah, I know… dreamland.

The Premier League is running scared of the Tory government, so let's show them we are in control. We all know the Premier League is not played on a level field.

Certain teams were allowed to spend as much as they wanted for a number of years. They established themselves and then came in FFP to put the brakes on anyone else joining them.

It took a country's PIF fund to get The Barcodes involved. Private money will no longer be enough.

Moshiri tried, on behalf of Usmanov, but put his trust in idiots. Hence where we find ourselves today.

Annoyed, angry doesn't cover it – Infamy, infamy, the Premier League has it in for me! Well, unlike Ceasar, who was also stabbed in the back, we will survive and they can go and kiss our Royal Blue Arses.

Dyche and boys will do it so let's give them our all for the rest of the season. COYBs.

Fuck the 'independence' of the commission too – much easier to shit on Everton with their playtime Board and lawyers than Man City and Chelsea who can afford proper briefs!

But Dyche will see us through this, no sweat!

COYB!

Looking at the Premier League table, it leaves Everton second from bottom, but I would expect that Everton will be able to get out of the relegation zone.

There must have been a lot of pressure from other competing Premier League clubs, because it looks that the decision was taken to appease them. The £19.5 million over the limit is within a margin of allowances, which Everton were entitled to expect.

At least we now know and the club can plan ahead. I'm glad it's over. Everton are rightly appealing the decision.

Onto other larger offenders, nothing less.

These relegated clubs, Southampton, Leeds and Leicester, have all threatened to sue Everton. The trio previously asked the Premier League to speed up their charges. They could ask for as much as $375 million from Everton should they win the case. This, however, is contingent on the verdict of the Merseyside club by the independent commission.

Verdict on Everton FFP violations may take 4 years to complete

So much for expert opinions eh?

It is the equivalent of the Yorkshire police simultaneously arresting Peter Sutcliffe and a 7-year-old shoplifter.

Then saying "Already Sutcliffe we are onto you but get back to murdering while we hang this kid for stealing."

Firstly; the disgusting and opportune way this bunch of slimy crooks on the Premier League Board, have shown themselves to be a rancid a bunch of bent crooks who are in power through our 14 clubs' stupidity!

This bunch of crooks would fit in well in a Mafia godfather's backroom sorting out how to make more money.

Our Club, have gone just under £20 million in the red. After, according to our club, keeping in step with the Premier League, all the way through the period in question, presumably with the knowledge of the Premier League.

Now they've done an absolute disgusting back-stabbing trick on our club. They actually (the mafia muggins) demanded the maximum penalty of 12 points.

I suppose the independent executioners thought they'd like to show their "wholly independent decision" making the axe fall only halfway across our club's neck, with only a merciful 10-point deduction!

I wonder what these slimy individuals on the Premer League Board cooked up as an excuse not to throw the Super Leaguers out of the Premier League!

Bent as a Nine Bob Note, every one on that Board.

Mind you, I think our club's Board are partly responsible as well. As he's passed on, I will not do what I'd like to do, fire a full broadside at our ex-Chairman, other than to say, he didn't carry out his job, nor did thunder thighs, as her job as Chief Executive Officer, nor did the Cheif Financial Officer.

Let's see what happens in the coming months, as we are to appeal.

However, my second part, Jim, is about us! We raise the roof. At the beginning of the game, hopefully some poet can introduce a very suitable chant that will let the Premier League know just what we think of them.

Every time a referee makes another bent decision, then howl the place down that we know what he's done. We have had that happen to us so many times over the years, that just the decisions being fair, would give us those 10 points, and more, in no time.

But more than anything we let our manager, our DoF and the lads in our squad know that we back them 100 %. Now I'm a season ticket holder but I don't go to away matches. I listen in though at our away games and they are just brilliant; the are like a 12th man. It must give our players tremendous heart to hear them all the way through the match. I just hope we can take a leaf out of our travelling band and give our players heart throughout each match at home.

I'm sorry to offend anyone now, but I feel so annoyed, that I'm going to swear a bit. Fuck this shower of cheats who supposedly run the Premier League fairly! They do not! Fuck the bent referees who are so blatant at giving iffy decisions, fuck these clubs who say they will sue us. Try it! It's us now, our club from 1878, generations have lived their lives around this club. Well, it's our turn now.

COYB

This must be fought legally.

The utter fear of being seen as not being decisive and biding by its own rules, while at the same time trying to avoid being brought to account for the big, income-bringing clubs even more associated with breaking the rules. And by that not bringing in government-appointed overseers.

But this is, after all, a clear precedent for the future, so how can they later allow others to slip by, now that the measly sum of £19.5 million in over-expenditure over a 3-year period is cause for a 10-point deduction?

Oh, I think we will overcome the deduction easily to stay up, the way things are currently going, but I'm salivating at the thought of watching the aftermath and the overall fallout this will cause... ;D

The Premier League Board asked for a 12-point (the maximum, wasn't it?) while sitting down with the so-called Super Six and pleading with them not to be so naughty.

They are bent and so is this league and the referees who supposedly run games fairly! Bastards the lot of them!

What is concerning is that the club have clearly misled the fans. When the charge was raised, the club said they had done nothing wrong and would fight it. However, the club admitted the breach. We were clearly lied to.

Everton have been working with the Premier League for a considerable period. Everton had no control as to when the points deduction was made.

Surely the concerned clubs should sue the Premier League for their tardiness in dealing not only with Everton but also Man City.

I would also add that having Carragher's comments on Sky, he is actually talking sense for a change!

They did not get relegated because Usmanov's auditors got caught trying to make interest rates shrink. They got relegated because they were totally shite. They got relegated because they barely scraped 90 points between the three of them.

"No sporting advantage" the investigation found. Despite all efforts to prove there was.

The press, in their search for a new angle, will see us as the club who deserved (in their view) a proper kicking, getting a worse kicking than they deserve.

There are more positives than negatives here. All will be good.

The bottom line is choose your level of burden wisely. The world was rather exhausting before this happened. It should help to know this will ultimately work to our favour, overreactions usually have unintended consequences.

Like a new signing was good, Andy.

As I've kept on saying on here, people can interpret the not-so-independent judgement all they like but the indisputable point is the punishment does not fit the crime.

Forming a new competition behind the backs of the Premier League is a far worse crime and the clubs involved were fined £4M each so our penalty should be less than a £4M fine.

That is the simple point that we need to focus on.

Stop listening to rumours and hearsay, the relegated clubs might well be able to litigate against us no matter what, the corrupt Premier League rules may say otherwise, but that doesn't count in the real world.

I say 'once good name' because this sorry episode has tarnished that good name and the people responsible for that are either no longer with us, having been more than adequately compensated, or have already booked themselves on the first train outta town.

If we go down, we go down, but we go down fighting — figuratively speaking.

This has been coming for years now thanks to decades of mismanagement by Kenwright & Moshiri.

What a legacy these two gobshites are leaving us.

I might start going the Marine games now I'm done with it all. It's never been a level playing field for decades.

Also, we need to rely on Burnley, Luton and Sheff Utd all continuing their bad form. I'm hopeful we can survive, but we must fight for our lives for every point on the pitch and in the appeal. The fight starts now!!

Hopefully our lawyers will be honing in on the comparison of a £20M "agreed" or at least our club would say that the Bent Bunch were aware of our overspend, and presumably accepted it as it went through.

And in comparison to what the "naughty boys" were up to, it's comparable to getting on a bus and not paying the correct fare! It stinks!

"And the rest of you, note the ‘u' in favour. You're welcome."

What a well-mannered post. Your mum brought you up well. Note the "u" in mum!

But agree about choosing your level of burden.

What will acceptance mean? What can I say at the moment as I'm still in the bargaining stage, but since I've supported EFC I've never known things as bad as this.

I have trouble understanding my feelings. I feel betrayed by both the club and the Premier League. Can I get that faith back? Perhaps… acceptance, acceptance, acceptance – though this seems far far far away.

One of our expert accountancy experts appears to have admitted that was how he saw his role in the same way as a tax-avoiding (not evading) accountant advising his clients!

I quote Gordon Lee: “Even when you're dead, you shouldn't lie down and let yourself be buried.”

Circle the wagons.

Barry "tarnish the good name of our club" I don't know about you; but I think you'll be round the same vintage, but I've been going to the match 65 or more years. And I am fucking livid. One lad, just above, has said he's going to watch Marine! And I wonder how many other decent supporters are giving up on the blatantly unfair way this league is being run.

We need to be angry, we need to show our anger when a ref blatantly corrupts a decision, but yes, I'll agree with you; the reputation of our club (already dragged through the mud and the courts through this bent shower of bastards, must not be, and will not be tarnished by us, its fans. The Premier League are doing their best to do that.

I do have a question: You came on here last week telling us that you had a nailed-on reliable source, who you couldn't name, and that we can relax because we will not be getting a points deduction. Can you reveal the name of the source now?

So, how reliable did your impeccable source prove to be? Would you like to apologise for posting crap that was 100 per cent misleading?

Another worry is with the possible lawsuits from Leicester, Leeds, Burnley, Southampton and whoever. I understand they try to make use of this, but seriously, it makes no sense.
Those clubs played badly and got relegated.

Their case is only based on the thesis that, if the Premier League had docked Everton during the season they went down, they might have stayed up. But because the Premier League did not do that, they should sue the Premier League, not Everton.

Any misconduct by Everton certainly did not affect the teams mentioned above. Everton's poor management only harmed Everton.

Anyway, it's another proof of different rules for rich and poor clubs. All 6 clubs who tried to join the European Super League should have been demoted right away.

Man City and Chelsea will never get any penalty for their much bigger crimes.

Teams owned by theocratic nation states or dodgy Russian oligarchs get away, sometimes, literally with murder but we overspend by a few million quid and we are treated like fucking pariahs.

The Premier League, Sky, FA blazers, Infantino, Uefa etc… fuck 'em all.

You could reasonably argue that the line that the club took was far more annoying to the commission than the actual allegations, which is why they've gone for the most draconian punishment they could mete out.

I still think it's unjust, but the club, or should we say Moshiri has made a pigs-ear out of the situation, yet what happens to them? Moshiri will probably get free drinks in his local Casino for the rest of his life as he retells his trials and tribulations of being the 'owner' of Everton Football Club.

I don't believe we'll see him at a match anytime soon either.

I thought post 281 was a mere continuation of your post @ 280, and you'd found a way to obscure your name. :)

This will do our standing and reputation the world of good and we're only 2 pithy points from safety with a much better goal difference!

And as for Nottm Forest, I can't see why they feel the need to sue? Who the fuck are Nottm Forest anyway!!

No sporting advantage was what was made clear in the report. So can we stop with these silly claims.

But let us accept it, let us use this blatant VA fucking R decision galvanise us as Everton, to show these corrupt shysters that we can single-handedly and against a Mafia-like corrupt system, totally, and without assistance, fuck them over.

Let's use this outrageous decision to spur us to obliterate not only every team we play but every obstacle these fuckwits put against us.

Let's hope the Pandora's box that has now been opened by the Premier League turns out to be their biggest mistake, with all sorts of things getting exposed.

The government independent regulator said they are not going to ever deduct points from clubs and yet here we are getting a points deduction from the Premier League. It is outrageous.

I do worry however that things will only get worse for us with refereeing and VAR decisions. I have zero confidence that justice will be seen to be done.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, the Toffee TV video 'Everton docked 10 points by Premier League Live' is the best debate they have ever conducted, in my opinion, and well worth a watch.

Oh, I'm with that angry shit don't doubt it. I am only laying out that planet earth drops stuff on you sometimes and you don't have a say in the timing. Don't feel forced into an immediate reactive episode is all I'm suggesting.

If you've got the energy, have a go, but don't let the world run you down on its timing.

Everton's four 'aggravating factors' that lead to the largest point deduction in English top flight history

The West Ham Finance director, who was at West Ham during the Tevez scandal — you couldn't make it up could you?

I'm sure there are some dirty backhanders received amongst that cartel.

Don't say "Well, we had a case to answer", go full on Instanbul RS fans out of the woodwork yelling "They've got to let us back in" in 2005. We never heard the end of it until they got their way.

Bring up the Treacherous Six receiving zero punishment at every opportunity. Make things as uncomfortable as possible for the Journos who visit Goodison and then print lies in their rags.

Make every pundit aware they've taken on the wrong club. The club should bite the hand that feeds it and bare it's teeth at anyone who thinks they can take us on again.

Go full-on Millwall: "No one likes us, we don't care" banners at home and away grounds. Bear pit Goodison. Let the players know what's expected of them and support them to the end.

Find a "Premier League is corrupt" song and belt it out for the nation to hear. And most importantly, never ever forget or forgive them for doing this. Never.

I'm glad to hear supporters of other clubs see the two-tiered decision-making in this league. Good on them for coming on and supporting us against that bent bunch.

I see that they would like to kick us more, because they know they are going to get some stick. We should point up any dodgy decision if we see it in the match.

John (301)

We shouldn't forget it and nor should we let those bent bastards forget it. But focusing on supporting our manager at home and away, as well as we can, is the best way to do it.

And one of the things that has really bugged me in a very nervy time for us all is people popping on here with their hard and credible evidence and source for their true comments.

So many popped on with this and that certainty. Think! Is it really that impeccable and, if it's not, tone down your claims. For example, Jim, "I did hear from X but I'm not entirely certain about X that this is what X thinks will happen".

So, Jim, don't single me out to be some sort of - what? - vigilante or venge-feaster. It's an absolutely fecking reasonable question to ask.

"Don't give the referee a decision to make"

There's now a new one...

"Don't give the Independent Commission a decision to make"

Unfortunately we did but, as with refs... fuck them!

We are Everton!

Yes, the more supporters of other teams get behind us the better. We need a bunch of MPs to fight for us too.

The things mentioned in that Toffee TV video does give you hope that things could change on appeal.

Maybe we can get a few Man City or Chelsea lawyers on loan to help with our appeal after this precedent has been set.

If half the squad feel as strongly as we do about this,we'll be at least 10 points above relegation come May. And Seamus will finally get to lift a trophy at Wembley. Should galvanise everyone... don't let the bastards grind you down!

We will get by…

We will survive!!!

Graham, was that really reckless? Where did we finish the season before? How much did we spend on players to improve our squad?

The problem was the players that were bought didn't deliver but the money was spent in the belief they would.

The ‘unknown' consequences of transplanting players and hoping they will deliver on potential or rediscover lost form is what Everton were forced to deal with, such is the financial imbalance in the Premier League.

I've said it many times before and I'll keep on saying it: there is no way running a competitive sporting club should be likened to running any other business. Players are not robots and their performance only accrues benefit for the club during competitive matches.

A salary cap is the only way to make the Premier League fair as a competition.

Hang on mate, I just thought about it, are you taking the piss Dr Stephens!!??

For a quarter of my life, I have been railing against the management of this club, the incompetence and arrogance of ownership and mismanagement of the club, the lies and misrepresentation of fans.

And an increasingly corrupt Premier League. Make no mistake, I still believe we are being made an example of, that Chelsea or Man City will get no sanction worthy of note, that the rules will change to let them off the hook.

I am now a bitter blue, I admit it, but bitter because of the incompetence of our own, no one else. The Premier League is corrupt; independent commission? You are joking, of course, there is no precedent for the judgement, the findings are a subjective interpretation of accountancy rules.

But whatever, we are bottom on goal difference, that is a hit of more than £20M on league placement payments alone. Can we discount that going forward? I suspect not.

So I am going to say it. I don't want your Premier League. It's corrupt. I want to be the best club not to be in the Premier League. Of course that's unrealistic – short of relegation that is, but every club supporter is now on notice: You are fodder, your name is not Sky, your team is not in the Big 6 or whatever, whoever they decide.

We are where we are, we will not go down, we will win, we should sue the Premier League the next time a VAR decides blatantly to deny us. We should be the thorn in the side of this corruption.

They thought they picked the right team to make an example of; they are wrong. They picked the wrong club, the wrong supporters, the wrong city.

To the team and club — fight. We have your backs.

To the owner. Walk away with the best deal you can get, it won't be much.

To every one of us, tooth and nail... no one gets out of Goodison without shedding blood.

To the Premier League. You just made the worst decision of your corrupt life. We will make you pay, every inch of the way we will be your downfall.

But it's not about that... it's about punishing Everton and Everton only. The Sky 6 cartel and their paymasters at the Premier League are to blame. Corruption on a grand scale.

Seriously £20m spent in the wrong financial period probably does break the rules. However, in the Premier League, £20m is loose change. Surely a 10-point penalty is not proportionate?

That has now changed, forever! Fuck the Premier League and exactly what Christine articulated with passion and clarity.

And remember, Kenwright enabled Green and his like to previously hugely suck into our club, he personally describing the rightly much condemned Green as "The Mozart Of Money". Yeah, right. Repelently Insidious Psuedo.

So now we're minus 10 points on account of those some of us still venerate (!!!). How will the players, manager and coaches react? I would expect that just about all of them have been in contact with their respective agents to establish their very own best way forward. Ideally that'll be to put the max into every match, but we all know this is rarely achieved in today's football.

Talking about today's football causes me to ponder the Premier League itself, they having approved Moshiri (and it seems 777 Partners – are they closely related to 666, I wonder?).

Moshiri is quoted as having given actual evidence to the commission who found him and his conman pal guilty. He said in response to the undefended 16th-place finish in 2021-22 that it caused a loss of expected income of around £21M.

The commission added: "Everton's understandable desire to improve its on-pitch performance (to replace the non-existent midfield, as Mr Moshiri put it in evidence) led it to take chances with its PSR position."

Think about that - Moshiri at last now admitting that the entire midfield he, advised by Kenwright, had created was in need of replacement because it was "non-existent"! A commemorative piss-stone is way more than they deserve in any future never-to-be-owned-by-the-club stadium.

And lastly I'm obliged to Private Eye for summing up the credibility of this government and whomever partakes as so-called top-brass in football.

The current issue spoofs (or is it a spoof?) as follows;

"Downing Street confirms that HAMAS will never be forgiven for the atrocities it committed in Israel – until HAMAS is confirmed as the new owner of Man U, Palace or Wolves.

"HAMAS will continue to be seen to be barbaric savages with no respect for human life until such a sale goes through with the proviso that they spend big to win a place in next season's European Champions League!"

They say, truth will out. But those in power? Not a chance.

I echo your sentiments, 100%

Premier League = Corruption at its worst.

But I share the concern of some other posters re compensation claims from other clubs.

Leeds, Forest, Saints, Leicester and Burnley all applied to be allowed participate in the proceedings which have resulted in the 10-point deduction. The commission ruled against them but, after noting all had potential claims, directed that if the case was decided against Everton the Premier League has to send a copy to each of these clubs who then have 28 days to inform them that they will claim under rule W 51.1.

That rule is very clear that it is the offending club who pays any compensation that is decided. It is the commission who hears the cases and decides on the level of compensation which is unlimited.

Having read today's decision and the views of the commission expressed, I would worry.

Sponsorship impacted materially by Ukraine War.

Gomes crocked by Son, destroying player value and covering huge wages.

Other players going through huge injuries that effectively ended careers - Bolasie, Tosun, Gbamin.

Sigurdsson suspended on full wages and an amortisation of £9M a season for a crime that was later dropped. The Premier League rejected a £10M claim under PSR for Sigurdsson. That was the sum Everton choose not to sue Sigurdsson for breach of contract for the period till termination.

“This manager, This team will need us more than ever. They took on the wrong club.”

Last 6 words say it all.

Between Bournemouth, who are in 16th place, and Burnley, who bottom, so four teams, Bournemouth, Luton, Sheffield United and Burnley, they have won a combined total of 5 games out of 48 games.

We've won 4 so far, with many more to come, so fuck the lot of them!

Everton turned round and said No, Saturday at 3 pm is when football is played and our supporters come to watch.

We were not on Sky much for a couple of years. Corrupt.

Yet none of the above are responsible for the punishment, the terrible state of the finances in the first place.

Actually, none of that matters... nor should it.

Truer words...

It really isn't, any points removed are bad for the club at any time, as we all know about the 'fine margins' in the Premier League, particularly in the lower end of it; each and every point is vital.

A 3-point deduction from one of the usual suspects and there would be merry hell to play, with many of their former players likely stating that the Premier League had lost them the title or scuppered their chances of European Football. Why should we accept 10 points as being okay because some say that it's not such a high quality standard in the lower half of the table?

We sat on our hands when we were banned from Europe, despite not being involved in those very sad and unfortunate events; we cannot just sit back and accept this punishment because it's supposedly come at a good time for us.

It's an unfair punishment and we have to make our feelings known about it, in whatever way we can. It probably won't get overturned or reduced but to accept it is to accept injustice as a natural everyday occurrence, which would make us complicit in our own demise.

We are paying the price for the ineptness of the Premier League, who possibly should have charged the club sooner. Some would argue that, had they have done so, we would already be in the Championship. That may be true, but it still doesn't make today's decision right or just.

How can you get a sporting sanction for a series of events that were outside the control of the club?

Before the club had committed to pre-sunk contracts, how could they've known that Sigurdsson was a nonce, the Russians would invade Ukraine, players would be made of sugar puffs, and Son would snap Gomes...???

All we can do as supporters, is our part. Back our manager and back our squad. We've been doing well; and unless the league want to finish us as a dire warning to all clubs (except the Naughty Boys), we back our lads and we should get out of this mire the Premier League have thrown us in.

Ian (335), Good points but the Premier League we're out to stab us whatever way they could. This stinks, but we have to concentrate on supporting our manager and our players now. I know we will, just raise up the volume even more!

Not long before this happens, it emerges the Premier League are pushing for a 12-point deduction. If this was truly independent, then how should they be trying to advocate anything?

This decision suggests they'd rather clubs go into administration than face the panel because you only get docked 9 points!

On top of that, six clubs were set to leave the Premier League for a European Super League, the sanction for doing that was £22 million split between the six clubs!

Everton are definitely right to appeal and certainly right to keep an eye on FFP sanctions given to other clubs.

I for one think we'll stay up but financially it could be crippling.
Hopefully Sean Dyche can use the situation as a motivation and Goodison can be a cauldron for Man Utd. COYB

We will be absolutely safe and out of the bottom three before too long, as Rob H points out at 329 (keep it up, Rob, your posts are cheering us up!). As I said before, Dyche was put on this earth precisely for this sort of situation and we have this fella called Tarkowski .....

As things sink in, I've only been out of bed for a few hours, and while I have not been angry today – partly because I suspected that this might happen and was prepared for it – I do feel a very strong sense of two things:

(1) As countless others have said, we are being singled-out for exemplary punishment here, far beyond what is appropriate for the offence, our defence, and the sort of precedent that exists in the shape of a similar penalty for sinking into administration. I do see that there is something in the report to the effect that whatever we did had no impact on the pitch and that ought to be sufficient for us to swerve compensation claims from the vengeful five. I also fully expect the points penalty to be reduced on appeal, meaning that we are not currently in the relegation zone.

(2) I'm sorry, there's no escaping it, and I don't much care about "it's too early" (that ship has sailed) or "don't speak ill of the dead", one of the more sanctimonious sentiments ever coined (so, let's just scrap all history and history-writing, shall we?). We did do wrong and the responsibility for that falls squarely on the shoulders of the Chairman and CEO. I've paid my sincere respects to Bill Kenwright (RIP) but him and her were in charge of running daily affairs and Bill Kenwright insisted on being in charge and in the know and having his hands all pockets of the club – long after he owed it to himself to step down and enjoy life as much as was possible.

This, for many, will sadly be Kenwright's legacy and a true testimony of what many of us have spoken about until the cows come home, that Everton were a very badly run club (despite the sad and sick "What would Everton do" untruth). There should never be anything named after Kenwright in our new home. He should be tastefully forgotten.

The board have tried to hoodwink them which the commission agreed with. Now the club and fans will get punished for its incompetent leadership. Hopefully the punishment will be reduced.

Cos most of what you described that happened to Everton could have happened to any club – non-P&S expenditure is very narrowly defined – that stuff isn't included.

Just offering an opinion... not trying to be controversial.

The club didn't furlow employees during Covid. Spurs and countless others did.

The club got done on the interest charges on the loan taken out to fund the stadium. The Premier League rejected the interest deduction for P&S. They allowed the cost of the stadium, but not the loan interest.

Uefa accept Liverpool's argument that costs of redeveloping Anfield and abandoned Stanley Park plan are mitigating circumstances, though Hull City are not so lucky.”

This from the Telegraph a few years ago. Any chance we can use this in our appeal?

The only sentiment that matters now is... fuck 'em.

Fuck 'em all.

They can't beat us.

It appears that is because the interest paid in that period was in relation to loans not related to the stadium.

I think our board have messed up big-time.

Not P&S deductible... wish it were though.

The way the club was run is disgraceful.

Yes, it's a bit of a bugger... you don't get what you deserve – but you usually deserve what you get.

So there's no point in indulging in Man City & Chelsea 'whataboutary' and / or kopite victimism.

We're guilty – suck it up. We get knocked down and we get up again.

Beat United and stick 10 fingers up at the League.

Claw it back one game at a time and fuck Bill Kenwright, Moshiri, the Premier League, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.

It may have been said in previous posts but does anyone else believe we will be at least a point better off than the three below us in May??

For fuck's sake, Luton, Sheffield Utd and Burnley will be below us by then. Dogs of War shit time again and fuck the Premier League.

Everton should start legal proceeding against the breakaway six for starters and tell the shit-faced Premier League that, if we get relegated, we will sue the arse off them for dragging their heals with the Manc murderers with over 100 never to be adjudicated on breaches. Fuck them.

If it was down to the fans alone, we'd be safe by Easter; unfortunately that's not the case, we will still have inferior players when we play many opponents this side of Christmas.

The stakes for those games has been raised today, and that may well help create the siege mentality that might earn us more points from those fixtures than we might have expected from those games only last night.

I'm only too glad that the deduction has come relatively early, but it would have been better had we started the season on minus 10, we may not have been as complacent in those early encounters with Luton, Fulham, Sheffield United et al.

Those early fixtures can now be seen as wasted opportunities, which may turn out to be critical in the final analysis.

Of course we can overcome this handicap, but it will still take a lot of grit and determination to do so, and a decent amount of good fortune with injuries and suspensions to key players. We also have to hope that the officials and VARs don't in any way help to scupper our chances.

We need players and the club to donate.

Can we have a plane with a banner for the Man Utd game calling the Premier League a bunch of corrupt bastards?

It's going to be 26 Cup Finals.

Bring it on, COYB.

They've wronged the wrong club.

https://gofund.me/c368b768

The Premier League isn't a great league from the bottom half down so they've got half a chance of winning that half of the league. It sounds harsh and it sounds horrendous, but if you broke the rules you broke the rules and you've got to suck it up and say ‘fair enough”.

– Big Nev

"We've done nothing wrong, we've been working with the Premier League and we're confident of being cleared"

Today "Everton have admitted to the enquiry that they breached the rules"

Those 2 statements equate to one fact: we were lied to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLO7VrRij_M

Maybe Everton really did believe, in their naivety, that they'd done nothing wrong, rather than having lied to us.

I suspect naivety, given the Commission's withering dismissal of every one of the six mitigating factors Everton put forward. Embarrassing to read.

That is damming... no doubt.

Grant Ingles – Everton's Invisible Money Man

Wherever Grant is now the mention of Everton and Finance Director on his resume may come back to haunt him.

Anyone thinking that we will somehow come out of this deduction with our Premier League place easily retained are kidding themselves.

Yes, we've picked up recently, but only away — we've won 1 out of 5 league games at the so-called bear pit this season and been defeated by 3 very ordinary sides.

Next up: the enigma that is Ten Haag's Man Utd and I for one do not fancy that.

This is serious… and I mean Serious with a capital S.

I honestly feel this will have a negative effect on our brittle bunch of players because, let's face it, they are not that good, are they?

That's not a factual comment, it's trite nonsense. You could even end up getting exactly what you deserve in the form of rubbish governance if you take it at face value.

If we ‘stick 10 fingers up at the League' it will just look like we are waving at them.

This thread has been weirdly cathartic.

UTFT.

Thanks for a nice bit of banter and a chuckle on an otherwise shit day.

Up the Blues!!!!

“Bring it on, you corrupt cunts. Let's have it!”

We aren't going anywhere. Time for a 26-game unbeaten run.

We bought two full-backs, Patterson and Mykolenko. We sold Digne and James.

Net spend zero and we thought we would finish Top 6. Well you can dream…

Fuck em all.

We'll stay up but tbh I hope this is the beginning of the end of the Premier League.

I'm with those that think we weren't necessarily lied to regarding the breaches. I imagine, with the way the club is run, the management and board had no idea what they were doing.

Football is fucked.

UTFTs, and fuck the Premier League - Masters and his cronies, all, one leg back handers from the Media and perhaps other clubs. Let's see what Everton's lawyers, can do to them.

There's a web of deceit in the Premier League, but this punishment to Everton FC will unleash a resurrection of a football club with the best die-hard supporters in the world, like nothing seen in the Premier League so far.

Some great banners in design by the 1878 fund, clear and simple, and the noise next week, v United, fuck the Premier League.

UTFTs!

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THIS IS A NO BRAINER FOR ME

ANY CHANCE LYNDON & MICHAEL?

Subject: The punishment does not fit the crime

Secondly, we are playing well and there is already a strong bond between the players and fans, particularly away from home. We need to strengthen that bond further and put two fingers up to the lot of them. Every game is winnable, treat this an opportunity to build something great.

We can do this, UTFT!

We have got to turn a very big minus into a huge plus, so it's imperative that our next owners are put through a very stringent process, and have to pass this test with flying colours, imo.

Is there any point appealing, as the punishment is blatantly political, and how the punishment was decided even before the verdict was in?

It leaves a bad taste when you see what other clubs get up to and the game is getting so corrupt, you start to wonder whether it's all worth it.

So much for “working with” the Premier League. We should have done what Ma City did, closed the books and hired the best lawyers money could buy to litigate the issue to death.

We Shall Not be Moved!
COYB
Fuck the Premier League!

The government are already involved with the Premier League, of course there is every chance.

Hopefully this is our nadir, fans, manager and team will come together, we stay up, fuck the world and get in the new stadium and start again.

Only happen to Everton eh, just as things were looking up. For the first time in 4 years on Saturday night I was optimistic about our situation and then this.

COYB fuck em all.

I really don't talk in these terms lightly. However, I am convinced that there is a very specific agenda with Everton.

Our reaction to the Super League caused problems. And more than others we had a valid point. Everton have been ever present in the Premier League. It gives us some moral high ground when arguing against our exclusion. And arguing against the validity of a Super League at all.

I'm also genuinely concerned that Liverpool (powerful as they are) cannot stand the idea of being the City's poor relation on the stadium front when BMD is finalised.

There are a few reasons to bring us down to size.

It all sounds like paranoid crazy talk, I know. But then you reflect on the money at stake with all of this, and the not very clean beneficiaries of all that money, the regime washing etc etc. This is not crazy at all. This is how things work.

Just watch La Liga by the way if you're in any doubt as to whether this is a fair sport. Real and Barca run the refs there. Don't be shocked if it's going on here too.

Sky will be creaming themselves at the thought of it, timing couldn't be better for them. What an opportunity for us to show the world what the Premier League really is and more importantly who we are.

We must make the absolute most of the media coverage.

Fuck off Premier League,
You are so corrupt! (To the Eric Cantona song tune)

We are Everton and the world is about to find out what that really means.

Let's now see them take on Man City, Chelsea and others if they have the balls and consistency. The shameful six for their attempts to break away.

10 points for one offence. The cost of a decent player?

Anyway Neil, as you say, all we can do is get behind the team as we have been doing.

An appeal may reduce the punishment, but my appeal is to our greatest commodity. The supporters.

Make Goodison as ferocious as what we see in the stadiums on the away trips. Let's get in the face of the authorities.

See you all for Man Utd and then on to Nottm Forest.

Loud, proud and defiant. Not only can we do this. We will do this.

This was denied by the league and that furthermore, the club could not counter this comment because both the club's senior officers at the time, Denise Barrett-Baxendale and Grant Ingles, declined to give witness statements to the commission.

Now if this is true, it is a gross fuck up by the club and left us without a leg to stand on. Perhaps as a leaving present, they gave it two fingers while taking their golden handshake...
Never in the field of sporting conflict has so much been attributed to so few.

I'm a simple soul. Okay, the club is guilty, hands up. However, £19.5M over 3 years when players are regularly bought for 5 times that much just smacks of hypocrisy. It's not even one week's combined wages for Man City's squad to add perspective.

Punish the owner and board who have fiddled the books, but why punish the fans and players who have committed no misdemeanours? The panel admitted their was no sporting advantage gained so why take it out on the players?

It stinks and opens the possibility of future punishments for all clubs. When it suits of course.

You're just giving them corrupt bastards money.

A dark, dark day for football.

I'm just watching that ToffeeTV webcast, and there are some interesting points made in it. I agree with you, why on earth Everton didn't refute that claim made by the League's representative is a mystery.

The other point was that the Premier League in early August this year, decided they'd better put a formal method of deducting points in place, which meant that any breach of the £105M would result in an automatic 6-point deduction and every £5M over and above that figure would mean an extra point being deducted.

In Everton's case, that was 6 for the breach and 4 for the circa £20M over the breach, which apparently is a formula that the commission failed to use, but still ended up with the same total of points deducted.

Which also begs the question: Why would the Premier League be pushing for a 12-point deduction. We broke the rules, there's no doubting that fact, but it seems to me that the commission took none of our mitigating factors into consideration.

EVERTON DOCKED 10 POINTS BY THE PREMIER LEAGUE

When I first heard today's news I was genuinely gobsmacked and still am to a large degree. But I also feel an even stronger bond to Everton as a result. I can't wait for the match every game but Sunday has taken on a whole new meaning as has every game from this point on.

Absolutely we will do it, no doubt whatsoever.

Christine #382, wow! Unbelievable that a formal agreement in respect of the hearing wasn't included as part of the severance packages. Was Moshiri relying solely on Bill?

Not such a good source after all. I know you posted in good faith though.

You have never posted a daft article ever and this post is probably your most profound.

What you said is almost word for word what my wife said earlier today.

The Super League comment is spot on and so is:

'I'm also genuinely concerned that Liverpool (powerful as they are) cannot stand the idea of being the City's poor relation on the stadium front when BMD is finalised.

There are a few reasons to bring us down to size.

'It all sounds like paranoid crazy talk, I know. But then you reflect on the money at stake with all of this, and the not very clean beneficiaries of all that money, the regime washing etc etc. This is not crazy at all. This is how things work.'

This is nail on the head and I will go further by saying it would not surprise me if they want to take the stadium from us.

Our new stadium will kill their revenue stream stone dead. It has already taken the international games from them and it will take all potential concerts from them and other events too.

We do need to look at the bigger picture. Why would the Premier League come up with an illogical punishment that could destroy us financially, the very thing the FFP is supposed to thwart. How many Liverpool fans are involved in Premier League decisions?

Your mention of the Super League prompts a thought that today's decision may be one of a chain of events, unforeseen and unplanned, which may lead ultimately to the breakup of the Premier League.

The concept of the Super League and with it the end of jeopardy has never gone away. The Big Six or Seven have not gone away. Meanwhile the can of worms opened today has obvious potential to send the other clubs into a never-ending series of compensation claims against each other.

The resulting chaos will create fertile conditions for the Super League idea to be revived with the Saudis and others ready and able to provide the funding. The idea a regulatory body will prevent this from happening is wishful thinking.

https://youtu.be/PVq0MrmezpI?si=r-iw_sE3zeRBLhqt

The Icelandic thunderclap!

We have some of the best songs, Spirit of the Blues being a particular favourite. However, clubs often have watershed moments that lead to new songs being sung from the terraces – a well-known example being Sunshine on Leith by Hibernian fans.

I'd suggest this is a moment for something new to be introduced from the stands at Goodison. Imagine the power of such a traditional club projecting their defiance through something completely new.

Any thoughts or ideas? Feel free to shoot me down, as an Evertonian I'm used to it. UTFT!!

We will not sit back and take it, the manager and team will pick up the points that we need and we the supporters will make Goodison a cauldron of pure hate towards anyone who defies our Premier League status, for we are Everton and not the FA or the Premier League or Sky whoever you are. MotD will get to us, we will give you pyro before during and after.

You are not bigger than the game, the game belongs to us, you may have won this battle but football and the spectators will win the war!!

If true that these penalties were only formulated after we were charged, this could be a weakness in the Premier League case surely.

It is a fundamental principle of law that penalties cannot be retrospective. So, it would seem that we committed a “crime “ without being aware of possible penalty. Doesn't seem right to me.

Given that the lads at ToffeeTV said that Chelsea and Man Utd are in danger of breaking Profit and Sustainability Rules in the near future, and Manchester City are currently under the spotlight, it might well result in another attempt to form a breakaway league.

Another factor may well come in the form of the Middle East leagues having the money to poach more and more players, which in turn will make it more expensive to recruit players even for the top English clubs.

Today may well be the beginning of the end of the Premier League in its current guise. I wouldn't shed a tear if we could go back to having one league with four divisions and I could even bear having no European football too – we are already used to that aren't we?

The overall standard might drop a bit, but it may prove far more entertaining and more akin to what we grew up watching, rather than the dash for cash game that it has become.

I agree, but the commission were apparently at pains to point out that they didn't use the Premier League's methods to come to their penalty – even though the final total would be exactly the same.

You need to look at what is happening right in front of you.

”I saw on Facebook…” Oh for fuck's sake… yes Fcebook is the font of all truthfulness, as some or most of us generally know…..???????

Does anyone know what the penalties were when we originally transgressed?

I don't believe there were any set penalties at the time we were charged. I didn't even know that the Premier League had formulated the penalties until I watched that ToffeeTV webcast.

The Mail has a few takes on today's events:

IAN HERBERT: At least Everton came clean - unlike secretive Man City, but their 10-point punishment displays a Premier League intent on making an example of a club, in a pre-emptive strike against independent regulation

Ian Ladyman

Everton Fan View

You're in the Blue Army now as we always have been.

Man Utd home in what will be a cauldron of blue smoke. Forest away, then Newcastle home. Put Chelsea to the sword and then a Quarter-final.

Those 10 points will evaporate before we get a reduction through the appeal.

Premier League v Everton FC Decision

The same Leicester City who deliberately went into administration a while back in the Championship, over paid Jamie Vardy wages to keep him there, breach the P&S Rules, but even after going into administration, the shares were sold at a ridiculous low price, new owner came in, no points deduction, and Leicester City gained promotion to the Premier League, through blatantly gaining an advantage.

Now I know many will say Premier League rules are different to the Football League, but either way, Leicester City cheated their way into the Premier League.

All this is down to our accountants at the end of the day, for whatever reason, we screwed up and maybe now others might just see why we had had enough of the board.

We need to restructure from the very top, bring in people who know how to run a football club. We will make these points up, we are in a good place at the moment in regards to team performances. Press the reset button and go again.

But we have to get things in place at the very top, the stench that has been left behind by the board and Chairman is lingering strongly over Goodison Park.

I'm sure you'll remember those sew-on badges from the 1970s that had things such as "Everton Rules OK".

I was thinking that a huge flag with Two Fingers and "Premier Rules - NOT OK" might be good. I can't find an image on the net to show what those original badges look like.

I've posted on and off since 2:30 pm but, as the 10-point deduction has sunk in my emotive response is let's beat Man Utd and get to 7 points, and we'll take it from there, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Take it one game at a time (sweet Jesus)

Successful appeals might be a bonus.

They picked on the wrong club, they have and opened up a massive can of worms in the process. We will be waiting eagerly for Chelsea's and Man City's punishments for 100+ breaches of FFP.

I can imagine a few fat envelopes full of dirty money will mean that will never happen though. Fuck them, we're Everton Football Club and we shall not be moved.

UTFT

I might be missing something, so hang on…

I did find this but it's not separate:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166423797134?hash=item26bfa19d8e:g:7VkAAOSwoGNlN7Vb

We now have a better and cohesive team, a front-office harmony between Thelwell & Dyche that did not exist previously, and a gaffer with a plan (though a lot of us don't agree with every decision of his!). Also, getting this big dark cloud out of the window would allow the players & coaching staff to concentrate on what is ahead the rest of the season.

Certainly not the end of the world and the rest of the season is long enough for us to achieve safety. UTFW!

I'm up for the Man Utd match, travelling to Forest away and have my tickets confirmed for Newcastle home.

Then we have a Quarter Final to contest. At Goodison.

We aren't going down without a fight. We are not going down.

I haven't even been out tonight.

Light hearted, I still remember my dad making me wear jeans with a patch on the knee (70s) stuff sent from my Auntie. Proudly declaring I am a Scouser. I asked him what it meant. He told me it was because I came from Liverpool.

Mortified.

I thought I came from Everton.

1) Leeds, Burnley and Leicester were relegated because they were crap, not because we over-spent by £19.5M in 3 years.

2) The club was grossly mis-managed by Moshiri, Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale and the board for years.

3) Loans for the stadium should have been taken from the banks or Liverpool City Council, not Moshiri.

4) We continued to spend large amounts on highly priced players from 2020 onwards when we should have stopped.

5) We should not focus on disproving the charges – the evidence is there – but on reducing the 10-point penalty.

6) I have never seen such a united fan-base, and they will get right behind the team.

7) Sean Dyche is absolutely the right man for the job. He frustrates me sometimes but we need him so no more 'Dyche Out' crap.

Fuck the Premier League with their pathetic fines for the Super Leaguers, the Independent Regulator is coming however much you use us to prove a point and you can stick your 10 points up your arse.

Finally, if Man City are not playing the Dog and Duck B Team on Hackney Marshes in 2 seasons, then we can also conclude that football is as corrupt as we think it is.

At best, we were run by incompetents – which I hope everyone now knows – at worst by outright liars.

We do not come out well from that ruling. Basically a club managed by chancers, pushing their luck to an extreme.

I'm definitely worried about being sued by relegated clubs. It would not be an easy case to defend. Someone could perhaps tell me the page of the findings which says we had no sporting advantage arising from our breach. I read it all and don't recall that being said about the breach of rules.

I hope and believe this will galvanise the team. I'm actually more optimistic we avoid relegation than 6 weeks ago. I am more worried about whether we have anyone willing to fund the club in the near term, as must happen for us to survive.

Administration remains a very possible outcome. If not that, then work stops on the stadium and/or we sell our best players in January to raise cash. The latter might alter the relegation odds...

Fair point. I'm actually angry at everyone. The ex-mayor blaming fans for Kenwright's demise, when in truth he passed right before the sum of his work was horribly exposed.

I'm angry at idiot Moshiri and accountants thinking they can Donald Trump their way out of trouble with bluster.

I'm angry with DoFx and managers signing crap players and crap players being even crapper than usual.

I'm angry with the Premier League as ever picking on us versus any other team. We lose USM sponsorship for political reasons, albeit legitimate ones, while Newcastle get new investment for entirely illegitimate political reasons.

The Sky 6 get away with murder and financial crimes, we can't even have a fouled player go down with a retrospective VAR booking.

I don't buy the conspiracy theory they want to relegate us. I think they want us and our large vocal fan base to hang around but no more. It looks good on TV seeing a full house but they don't want us to actually compete.

Along with maybe Villa, we are a team that could seriously shatter the Sky Six party. So they won't let it happen but neither will they finish us off – they'll just let us survive but no more.

It's bullshit I'm tired of it but the imbeciles running the club made it easy.

Even though Everton is a founding fucking member of the Premier League, the Satan-worshipping paedophiles who run it will still keep pushing this unjust, reprehensible anti-Everton agenda to the sole ends of ensuring that somehow the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock ends up in the hands of Liverpool…

Unless we fucking stop them! Any means necessary. Burn it all down, fucking kill 'em all.

For example, a deliberate cynical breach of the PSR to achieve a sporting advantage might increase culpability beyond that already arrived at by the extent of the breach. We do not think that this is such a case. Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach.

Report

Kinda what I was thinking…

And I am buying into it because I want to! From now on, I am blaming Liverpool for all this.

We do so based on their advice so they have shown negligence.

Apply a 100-year business embargo Blacklist for any club that sues us. We should not give the Premier League an inch on anything and refuse to cooperate on any other initiatives Premier League-led. Reminds me of Whitehall going after the dockers.

The Saudis will LIV golf the Premier League and the George Santos types currently running it want a piece of that oxycodone cash cow; no way they'll punish Man City. They want rid because they know Everton will morally fight it.

Then coincidentally watched a documentary on 9/11 and ex-CIA guy was saying they tried to drone Bin Laden before 9/11 but White House stopped them as he was out hawking with a UAE Prince and they didn't want to harm relations.

What kind of world are we living in?

I don't see how the club could successfully sue the player while charges were pending Is it a league rule that he had to be suspended?

I share the opinion of the vast majority, that this looks harsh given the Premier League's treatment of other clubs for actions designed to improve their finances without any concern for financial fair play.

We shouldn't exactly be shocked that they chose a weaker target to flex muscle. The club have to be proactive with Liverpool MPs for example, since the economic future of north Liverpool is jeopardized with this point deduction.

The club needs to develop quickly a unified public relations strategy to exert pressure on government at all levels.

It's clearly all about the money – Chelsea, Newcastle Utd and Manchester City have been this far immune for that reason.

The club needs to leverage support of business and political allies and others to get support in the corridors of power. No point in playing nice at this point.

Best stick to how corrupt the Premier League is. Will never forgive it, and the club needs to do the same.

The auditors did sound the alarm but everyone at the club thought that it must just be a practice drill.

Everton auditor considers walking away, raising questions over club's financing — The Guardian, 12 October 2022

Since they are corrupt, they are going to resist changing this decision through all the internal channels they can muster.

Everton need to push on all fronts including any commercial and political allies. The new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is a big deal for the city after all, not just the club. A lot of investment is already in place and in the works.

Crappy day to be a Blue.

According to this report, the FA banned Sigurdsson – it wasn't as reported an Everton decision.

But as I posted earlier, why was he banned by the FA and not Mendy or Partey?

Not just Hamas. Prominent Al Qaeda member living happily at liberty in Qatar as did the Taliban for years.

To be fair to the better fans of the other side, they've on the most part given us a lot of support today because they realize how damaging it is for the city.

I'm from Cheshire originally but it's obvious there's a London agenda there compared to that afforded to our Mancunian friends, and in my lifetime it's been like that since the dockers strikes.

Not to flog a dead horse, maybe time for supporters groups to advise the Labour Party not to take Blue votes for granted.
Get the politicians off their rear ends and represent us in this matter.

This is a big deal economically and politicians need to be on the hot seat as part of the solution. Saying the Premier League is corrupt isn't going to do anything. Leverage might do.

Thanks to all – off to bed dreaming hopefully of a brighter future minus the freaking stress.

Our public position seems to be that we have been working with the Premier League over our position. The report reads like we've been actively and persistently trying to pull the wool over their eyes and defend the indefensible.

We shouldn't forget that this isn't about £19.5M. It's about exceeding £105M by that amount. You're not supposed to lose money on your sporting operations and there's a £105M buffer in place before they punish you. We managed to go 20% past that buffer.

Yes, we had some bad luck. A player arrested. A war. But, let's be honest, the Usmanov money was dodgy anyway. If we had gone for an honest stadium deal, we might have actually concluded it. Then wars wouldn't matter.

Highlight of the report is where we have claimed we could raise £80M from certain players being sold but for COVID... and the Commission reach the conclusion that the reason we couldn't sell them wasn't because of COVID, but because they were shite (paraphrased but that's pretty much what they said).

After reading it, we're banged to rights. We all knew the club's spending was stupid. We didn't know just how reckless they were though. Or how cynical their attempts to hide their rulebreaking was.

If that's the punishment then fine. The only question for me is how punishment will be applied elsewhere. That's when I'll feel aggrieved. Because I've got no faith in the Premier League. We've been here before on lots of topics.

You could argue that's unfortunate for us. But the Commission argues that a player losing his value is business as usual. Injury, form, arrest... these things happen.

It's one of the reasons you have a £105M buffer in place. You can get unlucky and lose money. But it sounds like we were actively trying to live at the very edge of the rules.

The other way of looking at it is that, for us to comply, we'd have had to have nothing ever go against us in terms of luck. It's not realistic. Especially not for us, otherwise there wouldn't be the well-uttered phrase "Everton that"!

During the Boer War, three Australian lieutenants are on trial for shooting Boer prisoners. Though they acted under orders, they are being used as scapegoats by the General Staff, who hopes to distance themselves from the irregular practices of the war.

The trial does not progress as smoothly as expected by the General Staff, as the defence puts up a strong fight in the courtroom.

The Premier League had us wrong in thinking we were now jaded after a few seasons of relegation battle. They'll see a united fanbase like never before.

I never expected 12-point deduction and hoped for 6 points.

6 points and the aggrieved parties would cry too lenient.
10 points and they can still spank Man City and Chelsea with 12 point deduction. One can imagine this sort of discussion going on.

Fuck 'em anyway. The side is looking good and the way is upwards.

Many impressions I've picked up from the neutrals is outrage. Thank you very much.

If we were to get relegated by less than 12 points, we simply refuse to recognise it. Next season will be our gap year. The season after will be our 71st continuous year in the top flight.

If the FA were to go after Man City I can think of at least two English clubs who would be willing to join them in an Arab sponsored English Senior Football League.

Not being racist here. Just a broad category of well monied institutions.

1. It is clearly aimed at making Everton be relegated.
2. If we do stay up, we will be penalised through our league position earnings. This can be a substantial penalty in itself.

The Premier League needs to own up to its mistake in trying to make an example of a side that has been putting hundreds of millions of pounds into creating a top quality, classy stadium that will be used for many international games into the future and help UK win European and World Cup tournaments.

They need to get their heads out of their arses and moderate the penalty to one more in keeping with the misdemeanour.

How could they do that when he wasn't even charged but players from other clubs were charged, stood trial, and were still allowed to play in the interim?

An Arsenal, Man Utd and Sunderland player from my foggy memory, maybe even a Man City one too?

How can Man Utd (£45M) breach financial rules by double what Everton have been cited for (£19.5M) and all they got was a fine??? The breakaway clubs got a pat on the back for staying in the Premier League. Chelsea go into receivership keep the players they had plus then be allowed to go and spend millions on even more players. Man Cit'ys charges have been in limbo for years.

Then there's Everton not one of the biggest clubs financially anymore but through history alone still get a spot at the table. The Premier League have been waiting for Everton to slip up so they could bring us to our knees and beg them for help.

They didn't need to hit us with a fine because there will be 5 to 6 clubs rubbing their hands together, as Everton will not be able to defend the lawsuits because they have already been found guilty. To me, unless we win an appeal that clears us completely, we're in for a long hard road financially, as points deduction still means we were still found guilty.

Every Everton supporter around the world should write a letter to the Minister for Sport and ask them nicely to step in, and take over the running of football in England due to the Premier League's unjust treatment of Everton and their biased support of clubs bringing in big money and helping them to bend the rules and break them through meagre fines.

Moshiri is the single worst thing to happen to Everton Football Club, he could have bought the finest lawyers to the club and ensured that we didn't breach the rules, he could have done many things to prevent the club being in the position that we find the club in today.

Although, reading between the lines, it could be argued that his Oligarch mate and relatives of the Oligarch, were the real architects of our demise, and I believe that this whole thing has been driven by politics in relation to the sanctioned Oligarch and has nothing at all to do with sport.

I don't expect any appeal to be successful, as the penalty handed out by this commission and the reasons it gives for doing so, will be difficult for another set of people to overturn, especially given Everton's rather poor showing both in their shallow arguments and failure to provide compelling evidence to support its claims.

Unfortunately as fans we can only grin and bear the fall-out that comes with having poor owners and administrators, there should be IQ and sanity tests for potential owners of football clubs as most of them seem to live in a parallel universe to the rest of us.

If the aggrieved clubs decide to sue, I would steer them towards that sanctioned Oligarch and let him pay for some of the damage that his Iranian mate has done to our club.

I still think the Premier League is an unworthy organisation, incapable of overseeing football and that it will take more than a Government led independent commission to sort out the game in this country.

Government is far too involved in the sport as it is, and I would argue that it's this current government which is responsible for Everton being in front of the independent commission in the first place.

All of that doesn't absolve those in power at Everton, because without breaking the rules, the Government, Premier League and the aggrieved clubs wouldn't have been given the opportunity to get at the club at all.

Charles Brewer
66 Posted 17/11/2023 at 14:22:11
At least we now know the extent of the corruption and it is now up to Dyche, Tarkowski, Doucouré and the fans to instill a "We can take this shit and shove it right back at the cheating arseholes" on the rest of the team.
A Millwall, Duncan Ferguson, Dogs of War attitude is what's wanted, and I suspect Evertonians are the lots to deliver it.

Goodison's final season needs to be a seething cauldron of terror for visiting teams and bent officials.

I would call on every Evertonian, with ticket or not, to be inside and outside the ground. Fill the ground with 40,000, fill the streets with 100,000 more.

This is an affront to every Evertonian, matchgoer or not. Make the streets blue, Everton need you.

And listening to that Red Shite cunt Cascarino this morning makes me want to smash his face in. 😂

[I've been up since 3… a bit tetchy.]

I'll buy a plane ticket if you will. Think the airfare is about the same.

Hope you and yours are well. The united cause on here will be magnified/multiplied fifty-fold at The Old Lady eight days from now, as you well know, Mike.

The worst thing to happen to this club was the man who brought them in. You will remember, no doubt, that Arsenal chased them.

I would prefer it if the club did not appeal; it smacks of begging for forgiveness. Stand proud. Let's just shove this injustice up their arses on the pitch.

Fuck the Premier League. We were here long before them and we will still be here long after their protected darling Top 6 clubs finally desert them and leave their league in tatters.

The vultures of Leicester, Burnley, Southampton are circling. Rival fans of clubs up and down the country are delighted at our penalty. The Premier League have got what they have always wanted and boy are those cunts in the press feasting on our perceived corpse.

Sure there are a few disingenuous words of sympathy from some quarters, but I'm not having it. I live 160 miles from Liverpool, but I was still woken up by drunken plazzy kopites celebrating our "demise"

The reality is: we are friendless, but in an increasing dog-eat-dog environment, we have perversely gained an advantage. By revealing themselves, our enemies (let's call a spare a spade) have done something we have never managed to do ourselves…

I believe that for the first time since the advent of social media, Evertonia will awaken as one today. We are angry, we are united in our anger.

They couldn't get rid of us when we were deeply divided into many factions by internal politics. What earthly hope is there of extinguishing a united Evertonia?

Just like a tree that's standing by the waterside…

What annoys me most is the media narrative about plucky Everton, when we have protested they have been quick to shout ‘be careful what you wish for!'

Now, unfortunately for us all, we have been proven correct and it's us the fans and the players that get penalised being hit with the 10 points, disgraceful.

One last point: Is it true that when the slimy 6 resigned from the league the Premier League stated a points deduction wouldn't be fair as it would penalise the fans not the clubs, is it only their fans that matter?

Other clubs don't necessarily support what's happened to us.
They support us! So if that's the case, we should support their supporters, unless there's a reason why not to. It's in the interests of all clubs who aren't in the Naughty Boys club, to get this effin Premier League Committee out!

I think it's a great idea for all Blues come and show their support of our manager, and DoF, our squad and our workers in the club.

But if we're going to do this, then Stanley Park, right next to the ground, would be a good place. There's lots of littler streets around our ground and they would be chocker block if we do this. Not fair to the residents really.

We could show the bloody scumbags at Premier League headquarters, the like of certain newspapers and so-called experts, the bloody knobheads who are getting paid to be called "pundits" to talk us down. We could show the country what these fuckers have done! And what we think of their corrupt ways.

COYB

Fuck them. Don't let us get wrapped up with this corrupt judgement hanging round our necks for months. Every game that starts from now, we can remind the couuntry that this corrupt crew can do the same to any club.

Except the Naught Boys of course!

"Just like a tree that's standing by the waterside…"

I like that, Everton's Salvation Army! Basically what we are now, although we do seem to have sympathy (also found in the OED somewhere between shit and syphilis) from other clubs' supporters. I have held back until now but periodically kept checking the posts.

Keeping my powder dry, if you like, in case I sparked a rage from those who still unbelievably think the late Kenwright was all for Everton and did a grand job! Why does anyone think it took ages to find an investor?

He actually had many interested, including the Mansours before Man City, plus others who were deterred by the fact he insisted on remaining as Chairman!

Until he found a dodgy Iranian-Russian linked Accountant in Moshiri. Whom, I may add, had little or no interest in Everton as a football club, or us, its supporters. Just an investment opportunity or money laundering outlet for the dodgy Usmanov.

That, my friend and all other Blues is why were are in the brown stuff we find we are in today! However, I am proud to be an Evertonian, and I believe we will rise from these ashes better, bigger and stronger, and put two fingers up to the rest of the Premier League clubs and especially the Premier League and FA.

UTFT COYB 💙💙👍

Thanks for that; as there's no game on, I'll go through the report line by line…

Carragher gives a balanced and calm delivery of the decision being way over the top, especially in view of the paltry fines the Super League 6 got.

The Premier League said our interpretation of the rules was a step too far and like a tax accountant trying to evade tax on behalf of his employer.

The rules were written in a world where Covid didn't exist, where Russia's barbaric invasion and essential associated sanctions didn't exist.

Financially damaging incidents like Sigurdsson's are surely a fair and reasonable case for mitigation, even if the rules don't specifically allow it.

They also said:

“That said, there were also mitigating circumstances in the Everton case. The commission, for instance, agreed that the club had “behaved openly and responsibly in its dealings with the Premier League in relation to its PSR challenges, and that behaviour should stand to its credit”.

I think Everton have a good case to get this ruling overturned. We need to hire the best legal minds on the planet and fight this decision with legal intelligence, in tandem with the raw passion.

One of these days, we will play catch up... alas a fare to the UK next week would set me back $2,800 I don't have! If I did have it, I wouldn't be here!

But I am working on it, or should I say working on the house to sell it to get back home! I have learnt how to plaster, paint, sand floors, patch corrugated iron roofs and paint them... god dam starting to really hate being here, lol.

I walk around most days in old painting clothes and trainers! I need a makeover!!

Rant over. Being there in spirit just isn't enough for me... where is my pitchfork?

Yesterday - all our troubles seemed so far away,
Until the corrupt league went and had their say,
And took 10 points away.

Suddenly - this injustice is gonna wake us up
There is no way we're gonna face the drop
We'll stay up and win the fuckn cup
Coz… we shall not be moved.
🤦‍♂️

I've been waiting for the club to really unite for years, and although this was never going to be possible whilst Bill Kenwright was involved, with the perfect example being that Barrett-Baxendale and Ingles allegedly refused to give a witness statement that could have helped the club, then this is just more evidence that the curse has finally been lifted from our great club.

Change is coming, so let's make sure that the next owners aren't like the last couple of owners, by putting pressure on a phoney league who never punished the greedy six, because they didn't want to punish the fans. 🤮

Crying because you overspent on shit players you can't sell, managers not given the chance to do their jobs properly, and massive salaries for non-achieving directors won't help your case. Crying because you attached your business solely to a Russian oligarch won't help your case. Crying because 'other people have done worse' won't help your case.

I've always thought we'd broken the rules and that the 'assurances' were bollocks. It was always going to be about the severity of the punishment.

In the words of the great philosopher, Norman Stanley Fletcher: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime."

We've done the crime, tried and failed to cover our tracks. The only club that's broken financial rules for two relegation scraps. Thanks, Mr Moshiri.

Time to unite and fight for the rest of the season. Dyche will carry on doing his fine job as manager and, in the absence of anyone else, the club's spokesperson for seemingly everything. Supporting him and the players is more important than whinging about 'corruption'.

We'll stay up. We'll show the new owners what this club means to us. We'll show the Premier League they can try, but they can't beat us.

The club may have been run by a Ship of Fools, but this could be the start of The Greatest Story Ever Told. We will Not Fade Away...

COYB!!

Over £21k raised so far and over 1,500 Blues making the pledge.

Bring this on!

GoFundMe Link

We also have a statement from the Premier League that Everton were within the guidelines in August prior to the announcement of the independent commission. It seems that the Premier League were successful in applying pressure to the so-called 'independent' commission, recommending a 12-point deduction.

Other Clubs have not worked with the Premier League to the same extent, Some with even worse breaches. It looks like the clubs that have protested have got their way and it opens up the possibility of compensation. This is a big change, since it moves football competition from the pitch to the courts.

The other party in the equation which the Premier League regulatory committee, under Barret-Baxendale, was set up to appease was the Government who were pushing for tighter regulation. A Government minister has admitted he has talked to a representative of the owners of Man City, in their own country, regarding Man City's breaches.

The true facts of the decision will come out in the wash and they will smell, getting worse as more information becomes apparent.

Paul #45,

There is a measure of truth in what you say, but will other clubs be dealt with the same? There is no doubt that Moshiri was the goose, a goose, with the golden egg and the incompetence of those that he maintained at Everton was exposed, as was their greed, but other clubs have cases to answer.

How are you, mate? Good to see you adding voice to the upswell of anger and resentment which most could see coming but were powerless to do anything about.

One thing that you and many others who have posted have said 'We' and I have possibly done so myself in the past. Let's face facts: We, as loyal supporters have had no say whatsoever in the acquisition of ill-suited and over-priced players. Or the lengths of Contract they were fortunate enough to find themselves offered.

That, and many other totally inane decisions had nothing again to do with 'us' yet we could all see, helplessly, that it wasn't going to augur well for the future. Where are the rats responsible for the attempted sinking of the Good Ship Everton?

Yes, they have scarpered!

As the saying goes, fuck around and find out. Well, we have found out.

I think it will galvanise the club and could be the prompt we needed.

My first thoughts are towards our recently deceased Chairman and our extremely well paid and well compensated ex Chief Executive Officer. They both clearly played major rolls in allowing this level of mismanagement to develop and continue and they must share some of the responsibility.

So please: No further mention of Mr Kenwright, and let's try to forget he was ever our Chairman.

Secondly, this issue will clearly run and run and the Premier League will have some difficulty moving on. As it will be now very difficult to argue that positions in the league have any true meaning, particularly as I hope we make an appeal.

In the meantime, I fear for the manager, his staff and the players as I believe it will be impossible for them to overcome this deficit and as a result we will be relegated.

Many will argue that this is nonsense and that we will unite behind the team as never before. But my major fear is with our small squad we will simply run out of players as injuries and suspensions take their toll.

In the circumstances, we have to appeal, unless we have no defence? An appeal will give some hope and just maybe a lesser points deduction.

To avoid administration, we would need to sell big in January and the players who are saleable may end up going for peanuts, as the big 6 pick our bleaching bones. We would also have to cut staffing levels and close down academies / ladies team to save money.

The Premier League know what they have done and, in my mind, it's calculated. They want EFC killed off. The RS certainly do, as it gives them what the barcodes have, a One Team City.

The fact that Man City's charges are taking so long to sort out tells us all the Premier League have no real appetite to take them on. Chelsea will be the same.

In the eyes of the Premier League, Everton are not big enough to take them on – oh boy, are they in for the surprise of their lives. When Evertonians join together, fear spreads through their enemies.

The next VAR decision to go against us at Goodison will be like Tony Hibbert scoring but really really scary! When a big 6 team arrives, the support will be like Aragorn leading the hordes in The Lord of the Rings – The Return of the King. God help them.

We will overcome because it's what we were born to do. We have slept too long. Now is the time to awaken the Power of Blue and screw them, screw them all. UTFTs

I recall that excerpt. The way I read that is that we were not guilty of a deliberate, cynical breach. Just being stupid and indulging in wishful thinking.

It does not, as far as I can see, state that we gained no sporting advantage.

“On 10 August 2023 the Premier League board adopted a sanction policy that it considered to be appropriate to breaches of the PSR.”

So… 5 months after we were charged, the penalties were decided upon. They didn't exist before then, one of Richard Master's cronies obviously realised this wouldn't look very professional so they simply made them up to give a kangaroo court the veneer of probity. It's how corrupt authorities act the world over.

Our chairman of years past has died and there are few people in charge to take this fight on...

I hope I am wrong and we hire some of City's briefs and take it as high as we can.

The few left who have any influence need to appoint a spokesperson to keep us abreast of what's happening and drag this shit into every available court to fight it.

We need to have this case's punishment comparative to the big 6 trying to destroy the entire Premier League, only to get a £3M fine...

Bring it on, motherfuckers...

“On 30 August 2020, Keane signed a new contract with Everton until 2025.”

Now that would be ironic, us getting into trouble with the Premier League for deciding to keep him, I have never met a supporter who wanted to do so.

Whatever the outcome of all this, our part is to support our club, our manager, our DoF and our squad. This is what we do well and our supporters do it brilliantly at away grounds.

Our home ground now should be a bear pit. We can let the corrupters know how we react to their blatant preferential treatment of the naughty boys, both on and off the pitch.

But our job is to get those points back to the difference they were a couple of days ago. All our other methods of putting pressure, turning the spotlight on the corrupt bastards of the Premier League, then let's do it.

Our job, though, is to support our lads on the pitch and off it, and those who work for Everton FC. Many, if not all, are True Blues like us.

For the last 20 years, this club had split the fanbase. Prior to his death, Kenwright had managed to alienate so many; now, as a result of his stewardship, the fanbase is united. Totally.

The irony of course is that in part it's his team's incompetence that is to blame for our sanction, the worst ever, which has now, perversely done something he failed to do, unite the club.

I hope this finally puts to bed all those who refused to accept that Kenwright and his team were not to blame.. we are left to pick up the pieces.

We will pick them up, lovingly repair what is broken. Stronger, better... together. We move on... together.

You couldn't have said any better.

Bans on transfers, fines, prohibition of allowing supporters, permanent and unending exclusion from competitions (say for murdering Italians), all are administrative and technical punishments which clubs can suffer which may impose difficulties on playing, but which do not have any result on the only thing that matters in this sport: the result of 22 men playing within the rules of football.

It may even be reasonable to force the dissolution of a club – for example because its supporters murder opposition supporters (and their own, sometimes), but results, trophies, achievements on the pitch, with the sole exception of official tampering, should stand untouched.

If we've got Aragorn, Legolas, the Rohirrim and the warriors of Gondor, oh, and the Hobbits, coming to help. Well effing well watch out anyone siding with Mordor!

It's not the actions of the board that have united us. It's the severity of the punishment from the Premier League, which is very much disproportionate to the alleged offence.

Yes, we messed up but we messed up while under the supervision of the Premier League. We showed them the accounts, followed their instructions, accepted their advice, undersold Richarlison and Gordon to please them and still they fucked us.

Even our most ardent enemies in the media realise this is a travesty. Let's see what happens with the other two media darlings. And the treacherous six? They must be laughing their socks off at this.

Christine, you mentioned the man who I blame mostly for this. I will never name him again as – as far as I'm concerned – he'll remain a stain on our club for perpetuity. I'm glad I didn't shed any crocodile tears for him as so many others did on here and on other sites.

"Reading the commission's report, 'On 10 August 2023 the Premier League board adopted a sanction policy that it considered to be appropriate to breaches of the PSR.' So 5 months after we were charged the penalties were decided upon."

Pete, here's one of the significant things for me. The penalty framework the Premier League wanted has what seems to be a maximum of 12 penalty points (reduced by any mitigations). The Commission on the other hand said it wasn't adopting that framework and would itself decide on penalties.

And all it has said is that Everton have a 10-point penalty. It says nothing about a penalty framework (it says "there is no fixed formula to be applied"; "exercise of our discretion"). This "serious breach" has led to a 10-point penalty in this case.

If I understand this correctly, presumably future cases could result in a penalty greater than Everton's 10 points, and greater than the apparent 12-point maximum in the Premier League's preferred penalty framework.

I get the corruption argument, but we'll only know when other clubs aren't charged – as ever, we need to mind the distinction between legality and morality. If you're going to sail close to the wind, you need to prepare yourself better than acting like a whinging schoolboy.

A very good post… but ‘Thanks, Mr Moshiri' — did you forget someone else or leave them out because of respect?

This commission seems to be a very handy get-out for the Premier League, who on the one hand supposedly worked with the club to oversee they didn't commit a breach, then plead for an independent commission (who they set up?) for the maximum 12 points, which the commission say they ignored and set their own! Is that right!

If it is, it is even more corrupt than I first thought!

I didn't sleep a wink last night as I'm sure many others also struggled with all of this.

I just saw your post and obviously didn't know you have more pressing problems to deal with than my question. I'm genuinely sorry about that, and best wishes, Paul, that everything goes okay for you.

The commission's "determination" to itself decide on the penalty framework conveniently allows it to appear to be asserting its independence from the Premier League, while at the same time allowing the Premier League via its Commission to hit EFC hard – thus demonstrating to the government that it (now) has control of such issues and thus hoping to avoid government interference with the Premier League's role (and independence! sic!).

No such respect on my part. Governance comes from the top. Whatever we think of others involved, Moshiri is the business owner, who failed to notice and/or act on the lack of sporting and financial governance.

If he decided to let Kenwright run the business down, that's a different kind of negligence and incompetence.

I also can't see an appeal succeeding but, if we do appeal, at least the issue will continue to be discussed in the media.
If we succumb quietly and roll over, then the Premier League will think that they can get away with shit like this whenever they want.

Reading between the lines, it seems that us complying with Premier League instructions (as we were told) was not quite what it should have been.

I would love to be privy to the emails exchanged between the Premier League and our leaders.

Let's face it, the owner, Chairman and board have been busy doing such a good job over this period that we were forced to sell our best players, construct transfers on the most complex repayments, and they managed to alienate the fans to boot.
The punishment does not fit the crime but just what were our leaders doing?

The problem that I have with ‘the rules' is that we can only scrutinise clubs that are open and transparent and have been put forward to an independent commission by the Premier League. The Premier League can cherry-pick clubs that they have a problem with, or to make an example of, eg, Everton.

On the basis of that, the whole system has been brought into disrepute, because there now has to be a system to scrutinise the scrutinisers.

This will run and run, and if were anything to do with the hierarchy of Everton, I would not let this situation drop.

Thanks for your good wishes.

I think like you Moshiri failed as an owner but I also think he trusted the late chairman too much and the late chairman abused that trust to a huge degree.

The Chairman and Directors should have been fined. The fans did nothing wrong.

Take them through every and any court and make them rue ever introducing such a ridiculous rule. It shouldn't be necessary to show anything other than the ability to trade out of the position.

Everton had £168m of assets on the balance sheet from the stadium and loans to fund it in the season under charge. The interest bill would have been significantly less if the stadium hadn't been built. To allow the costs of the stadium, but not the interest is odd as it stops a private company developing their stadium in the absence of alternative commercial capital open to any other business.

That element of the breach, I think could be successfully appealed.

The other elements also seem wrong. Let's assume Man Utd are sailing close to the wind, Anthony's in trouble so the auditors say you're going to need to write off that £90M player value. Do they honestly expect us to believe they are going to sanction Mam Utd with a 10-point penalty?

It's a nonsense. This isn't going to be something that they follow through on, just like Niasse diving.

Then there is the story doing the rounds that 5 clubs having read the judgement are now about to embark on suing Everton to the tune of, if reports are right, £300M. I do question why 5 clubs would think they have a case as only 1 club could have avoided the drop in whichever season they want it to be assessed against.

Also, I can't quite understand why they are suing Everton –surely they should be suing the Premier League in not holding Everton to account earlier.

As for the Premier League charging Man City with 115 breaches, City refute all allegations and are quite prepared to take this through every court in the land to prove the Premier League don't have a case.

And unlike Everton, they have unlimited resources with which to fight it and the Premier League simply couldn't afford the cost of long legal battles. I am not saying its right but that is the truth of the matter.

But maybe we should be thankful that the Premier League brought their case now as, if they had done this in the previous 2 seasons and the commission had reached the same conclusion, we would be already in the Championship.

Whereby bringing it now, and even with a 10-point reduction, we are 2 points from safety with 26 games left. I don't think we will go down and I think, even if there is no reduction on appeal, we will still finish 5th from bottom.

Irrespective, I expect Goodison will be even more of a bear pit than it would have been to welcome Man Utd next week.

Main things for me are

1. Can we stay up?
2. Will the Premier League apply the rules and punishment as rigorously elsewhere?

No 2 isn't relevant right now, so No 1 it is then. Dyche has got his work cut out, again. More pain ahead for all of us.

I'm a long-term Everton supporter but I'm not about to go marching up and down Walton Road with a placard. It is what it is, we've been docked 10 points for breaking the rules; we're gonna have to deal with it.

A former Commanding Officer of mine once asked me who these people in grey suits were when they opted against a decision that could have saved lives. Dramatic, but I'm feeling a bit dramatic right now.

All they have done is unified us even more than we have been recently. Our city and our club have always been defiant in the face of adversity.

For those military historians and film buffs. This is Everton's Rorke's Drift moment. Against the odds, backs to the wall, we will do this. And then we laugh in their two-faced bastard faces.

Immediate focus is now on the pitch. The manager has done a great job protecting the players from what is going on around them. He will continue to do so. And we will be behind them. They will defy the odds.

We've got enough to give the Premier League a smacked arse and then watch with interest as they presumably now have to turn their focus to more serious offenders with more than a £19.5M overspend? They chose an easy target. An offender who complied with them and was apparently transparent. Certainly more transparent than the murky dealings of others. They have set a precedent and can't stop here. Onto the more serious offenders.

Sorry, still a bit raw. But defiant. A bit like when my mother got done for earning £10 a week cleaning one day a week at Speke Airport even though she was on benefits. The two people who came around to charge her were clearly on steroids and spent to much time lifting weights in the gym. Bullies and going for the easy targets. They got my opinion. Targeting the easy ones. Just like the Premier League have done with Everton. Sorry again. Irrelevant.

Defiance. Goodison will be absolutely rocking. Be loud, be proud. We shall not be moved.

Forever Everton. More so than ever.

Agree with all you say. The world is not against us but, if that perception serves as motivation to keep us up, all well and good.

I don't think the Premier League can have thought about the dangers of setting this disciplinary hare running. Do they
think a league without Man City and Chelsea will be good for the brand?

How can they take points off us now knowing we can appeal? Imagine if the appeal takes till April then suddenly we get the points back.

Clubs that get relegated can see that as an injustice. They could even sue the Premier League. The Premier League will regret doing this.

I'm a born optimist, onwards and upwards COYB.

If Man City or Chelsea were relegated, the product would suffer – hence why we got a 10-point deduction, and City & Chelsea will get nothing close to that.

If I'm wrong and both aforementioned clubs also get a 10-point deduction, the impact on them will be a lot less than for us. Man City would be 9th and Chelsea would be 17th. Neither team would end up getting relegated.

I still have a feeling we have a good case for the points deduction to be reduced, or rescinded and changed to a transfer embargo or a fine anyway – this is not over by any stretch.

Appeal and fight to keep the topic in the media.

Fight on the pitch to recover the loss.

Don't bother expecting for Man City and Chelsea decisions to happen until after this kangaroo court has been formally replaced by the government version. Enabling the rules and punishments to change in favour of the clubs.

Niasse and Points — these two will always be ours and ours only.

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm glad I asked you as you've put absolutely clearly what their little game has been.

I, like you you, feel in some sort of ironic way that this will hopefully galvanise us even more, if that is possible, and showing them we are an immovable force!

On a lighter note, you made reference to Rorke's Drift. I always felt sorry for anyone there called William. The call was usually "Fire At Will!" :-)

The aborted Super League breakaway told us how the Premier League will deal with any member of the Sky 6 group who breach any rules – there will be a token penalty most likely to be another small fine, certainly not a points deduction.

Severe sanctions will only be applied to clubs deemed non-essential to the Premier League product.

Does football exist in a bubble where there is no inflation? Of course it doesn't… in fact, the inflation rate is sky high.

Inflation in the football players' transfer market
(2013-14 to 2022-23)

Favourite quote from the film as a small British detachment faced 3,000 or more warriors.

Private: "Why us"?
Sergeant: "Because we're here lad. Nobody else".

Now that is leadership.

150 defeated 3,000. We can do this Everton. Siege mentality but we will do this.

We are on our own. We have to come out fighting. On the pitch, off the pitch and in the stands.

Let the big 6 fuck off to form a European Super League whilst removing and making redundant all those cheating VAR and refereeing officials today.

It's that they won't include interest on loans that clearly weren't for the stadium (evidenced by the documentation supporting the loans, which they printed in the report). Which is absolutely right in my view.

I'm just an average shit-kicker, but I know that I need absolute separation between my business/investment loans and my personal loans. The purpose of the loan is of paramount importance and that's very clear in every bit of documentation I have.

I also want to maximise my deductible loans and minimise my personal loans. Nothing will muddy those waters. If I understand that for personal taxation purposes... you would imagine a business like Everton would be all over it for P&S purposes (I assume tax on profits isn't an issue for us!).

Everton seemed to argue that, if it wasn't for the stadium, then the money Moshiri put in could have been given to Everton's operations instead of having to take out loans. That's simply not the case – Moshiri put the money into the stadium because he had to, not because he had some specific budget in mind from his personal wealth.

If it wasn't the case, you would think we would have done it the other way around. But we didn't. And then we added to the list of excluded costs we were creatively compiling. We tried to deceive them and shift a business cost into the stadium exclusions.

It's either – at best – a “look how tough we are” statement for those politicians arguing for a football regulator … someone interested in the game? – or let's kick someone without the infinite financial resources of a football fanatical, human rights loving country like Abu Dhabi.

Look at the Directors of the Premier League… packed with football knowledge and expertise … not unless that includes ex-Sky exec and banker.

Then the Panel making the decision … wall to wall lawyers led by an Arsenal supporter. The Premier League is rotten at its core and talk of Financial Fair Play is nonsense when the only beneficiaries are the oil-rich or dollar-rich.

Remember the dark days when teams like Burnley, Sunderland, Derby County – even Everton – won things?

Or in Europe where this nonsense was started by that well known ethical regulator, Michel Platini – at least before he was banned – where teams like Celtic, PSV, Ajax … could win the European Cup?

Well Financial Fair Play ended all this, but I suspect most of us didn't expect that.

There is currently a push back from the Premier League to avoid an independent regulator. By coming down on us extremely hard, it helps their argument that they can keep their own house in order.

We seem to have been caught in the crossfire. It feels rather pointless to rehash our mitigation defense but to appeal the sanction as being disproportionate.

Of course, some wont, but on Facebook, there does seem
to be an appetite of support from outside our own fanbase.

In the first instance, it would send a huge message to the Premier League if we can galvanise, if not all, but a significant number of Man Utd fans to stand by our side in protest at the next game.

But I do think there are a lot of people on here angry at the wrong people. We're as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo.

For all the wailing about Man City's and Chelsea's spending, or the Big 6 breakaway (both rightly, by the way)... maybe we should have some empathy regarding the teams who got relegated while we were clearly breaking rules and staying up?

Their supporters will be livid, and I think they've got a right to be. This idea that we didn't get a sporting advantage from the players we signed is a nonsense. Of course we did!

And we need to stop with the 'it was only £19.5M'. We lost £372M! We got to bring that down to £124.5M... but we were still over a pretty significant £105M buffer they allow before they bring charges. You're not supposed to lose that kind of money – it's dangerous and it's risking the very existence of the football club.

It's like if the police introduced a 20-mph buffer before they do you for speeding. When you get caught doing 95 in a 70 zone you can't argue it was only 5 mph.

The penalty for going into administration is 9 points. Everton are penalised 10 points for breaching Profitability and Sustainability rules, ergo creating a risk of going into administration.

It's as if the judge hands down a longer sentence for attempted murder than actual murder. Disproportionate? You bet!

Most clubs not worth billions are losing supporters.

Me? Used to watch every way to watch a match from here online. Now… Maybe… Not often.

Other clubs' only concern is "phew, not us!" YET!

Corrupt Premier League… as we all know across the country.

Yes, the Premier League is trying to show some bottle to fend off an independent regulator. But the disproportionate penalty does also indicate an agenda with Everton.

It's not particularly far-fetched to say the Premier League, the broadcasting, the refereeing and the treatment of clubs is far from fair and balanced. It's an entertainment package that relies on the big clubs winning in style; and acts as a positive propaganda machine for oligarchs and regimes. There's so much vested interest… 'fair' doesn't come into it.

I get your 'drift' but the truth is that this club has been drifting in the wrong direction for far too long. This unfair penalty will not be the last that Everton has to suffer but hopefully it is the one that kick-starts a new era for us in the Premier League.

Rorke's Drift will be a tea party compared to the battles ahead. UTFT.

But I would also like the fan base to turn their attention to the footballing media who, whilst cosying up to our owner and board, were asleep at the wheel and did not call them out for running our club appallingly.

In fact, the cries from the supporters and protest banners and marches were met with bile, false allegations and condemnation by many. Clowns such as Simon Jordan, Jim White, Phil McNulty and even the sanctimonious prick Ian Wright who condemned the supporters on a prime-time football show only to backtrack a day later in front of an audience of three cats should hang their heads in shame.

Whilst this points deduction is a travesty and out of proportion to the indiscretion, our board allowed this to happen whilst the supporters were screaming for changes and a board who were competent to run a football club — we were largely ignored by the media who would not call them out.

They are the ones who've got us into this mess.
They're the ones who run/ran the club like a Sunday league team.
They're the ones who couldn't manage to "account" for £19.5M among the several hundred million of losses.

If we'd have had professionals running the club instead of those that do/did we'd be in the clear.

Yes, the punishment is overly harsh but there shouldn't have been any need whatsoever for us to be punished.

1. Our club mismanaged spending. No one can deny we bought so many, bad, overpriced players. Though I do have some sympathy with the club, given the extraordinary liability of building a stadium.

2. We have received a grossly disproportionate punishment given that there were also several mitigating circumstances – covid, the war preventing Usmanov investment etc.

Confusing the two strengthens their judgement.

I think most believe, yes we deserve something but even the most angry of supporters cannot think this is fair, proportionate and justified!!

Especially given we have been completely transparent with the Premier League and agreed to self-imposed sanctions - salary cap, limited transfers, selling our best assets, eg, Richarlison.

Seems like we are being punished twice.

Now we have Premier League clubs like Man City and Newcastle Utd financed by nations with virtually unlimited funds. The attempted European rich club breakaway league to grab even more cash and insulate themselves from relegation was just another symptom.

So where does the Premier League go from here? Can't go back to the days of getting revenue from ticket and pie sales. Football is a major global sport. The Premier League is coming under pressure from the likes of Saudi Arabia in the spending stakes, and the Saudis don't have any FFP rules to worry about.

Players will always go where the money is. If the Premier League clubs can't afford them, then they'll go to places who can. So how does the Premier League keep the quality and excitement the best players bring while getting rid of the behind-the-scenes corruption and greed?

But I think there's as much danger in using phrases like 'completely transparent with the Premier League'. Have you read the commission's findings?

We weren't transparent – we actively engaged with the Premier League but we were doing so to hide things and fudge numbers. 'We' (which is not really us) deserve to be punished.

We're the big boys using our financial muscle and hoping that we can lie our way out of trouble because the Premier League wouldn't dare come down hard on a storied club like ours.

As for sympathy for the Russian invasion... will we have sympathy for Newcastle if the Saudis were to be sanctioned? Absolutely not! We danced with the devil...

Did Everton receive a disproportionate penalty for the breach? In my opinion, the answer has to be again another Yes.

We have to move forward, we must appeal the level of the points deduction while continuing our upward trend on the field of play. We will be fine, pardon the pun.

Come the summer, we will be in a much better place with the new stadium to look forward to, the points deduction penalty behind us, and the winding up of some of the crazy player contracts that got us into trouble in the first place.

"given that we have been completely transparent with the Premier League"

The report actually states:

"The Commission is satisfied that Everton's PSR calculation in relation to stadium interest was less than frank."

It's time the fans had their say on football and a government petition to install independent regulation would be a good starting point.

To use Ernie's @539 analogy — all of football is dancing with the devil now and needs exorcism.

There is a new regulatory body proposed in the Opening of Parliament on 7 November. Assuming that the legislation will only be introduced in the latest sitting of parliament – will it have power to review our case?

Where does the commission that oversaw our punishment sit legally if it's to be redundant?

I take your point but I think the commission are using what are less than clear arguments themselves.

At one point, the interest from loans could be used to offset tax, then it couldn't. There were disputes as to what was mitigating circumstances etc. Accounts are often not straight-forward. But we were willing to go to the Premier League to try and pre-empt this and complied with salary caps and transfer limitations.

So I think its fair to think we have been reasonably transparent. But maybe you disagree and think 10 points is completely fair!!!

As for dancing with the devil – I absolutely did not want Usmanov near our club and glad he's not. But, from a purely financial argument, yes I would have some leniency with anyone who thinks they are getting an injection of money, base their accounts on it, and then overnight, have it wiped out — Saudi, Russian or otherwise

I'd like to think that this is how we all feel. There can be no mistake, this is our own fault. This is Everton's fault.

I said it right away when the news broke yesterday that we need to not bleat and moan and spend enormous amounts of energy crying and feeling sorry for ourselves. Our energies need to be put into effort on the pitch and supporting the team.

This is not about the Premier League nor the FA. We fucked up, end of. We should accept we are guilty, appeal the sanction but move forward, united together and drown out the noise surrounding the club.

It's negative press. Let's turn this season into one to remember. UTFT's

Perhaps a rethink by the Everton board given our new situation with the Premier League?

There were loads of banners with Kenwright Out and some with the finger pointed at Moshiri too. Sky reporters and camera crew, were there, but were only interested in interviewing the newly elected Fan Advisory Board, who were represented by Jazz Bal (?). Of course none of us knew who he was, or were really aware of who the FAB were either as it was in its infancy.

Nor did we know what was being said as they made sure he was ushered into a space, beyond earshot of us. I, and many others were horrified when we saw the televised version. There was virtually no mention of Kenwright at all. The only banners shown were the few with Moshiri on.

I suppose the point I am trying to get across is the media will always put a slant on any subject, and rarely portray the facts, or the true story. Unfortunately too, most people believe, if it has been on TV, it must be true!

He is predictably at it again today doing more shit-stirring and kicking us whilst we are down.

I wish I could feel as robust as you about the integrity of our position.

To take as an example, you mention the interest arising from loans from Metro Bank and R&MF which at one stage we were trying to argue was deductible. Had they been structured so, specific to the construction, this would have been easy.

Instead, the commission relied on the actual documentation which was clear that the loans were towards the working capital requirements of the club. I don't know why Moshiri structured it that way. Maybe to prevent a third party having claims on the stadium? But it was done the way it was done, as a matter of simple fact.

Pushed back on this, we tried an alternative defence that, while accepting the reality of the loan agreements, that had the stadium not been built, Moshiri's loans for the stadium, would instead have gone to the club, hence minimising interest. With the best will in the world, I'd struggle to see how that case could be robustly made. There can be absolutely no certainly that the same loans would have been made to the club, has a new stadium not been progressed.

It's clear the Premier League did not regard us as being open and transparent, and the commission agreed with that, based on the evidence. I think the picture of our owners and directors sailing way too close to the wind, then trying to fit the failed outcome by stretching interpretations to the limit, is a fair one. It's not that we set out to cheat, more that we voluntarily put ourselves into a position where a breach was a high probability.

It's not as though warning signs were not obvious. Our auditors resigned, which is always a red flag. My biggest worry right now is that we seemingly need around £10-20M in cash to survive from month to month and it seems moot as to whether 777 Partners will continue to provide this.

Read it all and it's enough to make you an alcoholic before noon!

But Firstly Brendan McLaughlin (#541). Finish the quote: “The Commission is satisfied that Everton's PSR calculation in relation to 33 stadium interest was less than frank. The Premier League has made it clear that it makes no allegation of dishonesty.” To my mind, it's either one or t'other!

The impact of Player X; we all know who that is (Icelandic international, accused of but later cleared of serious sexual allegations). What I wasn't aware of is that it was the FA that banned him from playing – not the club. For the posters who haven't read the report, Everton had put the part of the loss on not pursuing Player X for £10 million because of his mental wellbeing.

The supposed sale of Player Y. We don't know who he is, but the FA stated the club had no intention to sell him (although he was on Brands' sale list) because he's been offered a new contract, apparently completely unaware that clubs post Bosman tie players down with lengthy contracts to protect the asset.

The impact on Covid on transfer fees. The FA concluded that football transfer fees was an area hardly touched by Covid. To quote that famous Shakespearian bard John McEnroe: “You cannot be serious, man!” The CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report Oct 2020 reported that “As predicted, the COVID pandemic has brought a considerable drop in the level of investments on the transfer market. In comparison to summer 2019, the drop observed during the last transfer window for the five top European championships was 43%, with a minimal fall in England (-10%) and a maximum in Spain (75%)”

The New Stadium. I can't help feeling that we're being punished for the new stadium, and to my mind all costs should be outside PSR, but alas this isn't the case. If we had a different entity build and fund the stadium or if we had made the decision to stay at Goodison until the old girl fell down around us, we wouldn't be facing a points deduction.

To my mind the legal concept of mens rea (intention or knowledge of wrongdoing) is absent in Everton's actions, it had a crazy Leeds-like spend like crazy to chase the dream for 2-3 seasons, then paired it back significantly, but still had the millstone of the new stadium around the club's neck. Ironically, the FA will be touting it as part of the ‘First class infrastructure' in its sales pitch when a tournament comes around.

The consequences of the FA's actions may be far reaching, and may see the OPEC clubs aggressively challenging the FA. They've opened up a can of worms and to mix my metaphors, let's hope the worms turn and begin eating the rotten carcass of this putrid organisation.

“Maybe we should have some empathy regarding the teams who got relegated while we were clearly breaking rules and staying up.”

Maybe you would like to consider your post should have read “team”, as in singular, not “teams”, as in plural. Three teams got relegated: Southampton, Leeds and Leicester. Had we got this points deduction last season, then Southampton and Leeds would still have gone down.

Only Leicester have a case. Leicester went down cos they were shite, not because of what we did. Maybe if James Maddison could take a penalty properly, then Leicester would have stayed up due to their footballing abilities, not some case being heard by some suits in an office, appointed by the biggest corrupt organisation in football.

Nobody on here, or anywhere else as far as I know, are saying we did no wrong, but for me, the punishment does not fit the crime. And Ernie, we can go on about “it's only £19.5M” because, if we weren't over by £19.5M then we wouldn't have had this unjust punishment.

I agree, clubs shouldn't be losing the obscene amounts of money, but they do, every single club does, and that's why there is a buffer of £105M, before action is taken. Everton had been working with the Premier League, making them aware of our situation, and then trying to rectify the situation. We wanted to sell Richarlison for £80M, but the nearer we got to the end of June 2022, we had to accept what Spurs offered, £60M. Had he gone for £80M, we'd have been fine.

So it's a 10 points deduction, for a, in football money anyway, measly £19.5M. I agree the Premier League have to draw the line somewhere, but use common sense, deduct a point for, say every £5M over the threshold.

It's all very well people blaming Moshiri, and probably now, quite right, but, when he took over, nobody could possibly have foreseen what would happen 7 years down the line. Why, when this situation started to get out of hand, didn't anybody within the club bring it to his attention, and say, “Whoa, we need to start tightening the purse strings a little”, instead of carrying on paying ridiculous transfer fees for average players, whilst at the same time paying obscene salaries, and even giving contract extensions to bang average players.

I, along with many others, including the club itself, now wait with interest to see what kind of punishment Man City and Chelsea receive, if any! Man City have something like 115 charges against them, but there is no need to look into every case before giving a verdict. For fuck's sake, we would be waiting decades for a verdict if every case was looked at. Probably easier said than done, but can the Premier League not look at what appears to be the most severe cases, and refer them to an independent commission?

Anyway, that's not a concern for us; our only concern now is climbing back up the table, and rest assured, we will do. I've read somewhere that Luton are improving, haha, don't make me laugh, 6 points after 12 games suggests otherwise.

Sooner or later, Burnley are going to start winning games, 1 win out of 12 suggests otherwise. And as for Sheffield United, need I say anymore, they are just total shite.

Goodison Park between now and the end of the season is going to be a bear pit. I wouldn't like to be a visiting player in the coming months coming to our place. We are on a decent run at the moment, and this points deduction is not (hopefully) going to have an impact on the form of the team. If anything, it should galvanise them, make them roll their sleeves up and say “Fuck you, Premier League”. The fans will now play our part, yet again, and we just hope the team can play their part!

Should the Premier League not be at fault for not regulating it properly? And talks of another 9 points reduction and administration is total bullshit. How can Leeds sue us considering they would still have been relegated anyway?

Regarding the P&S Rules introduced by the Premier League, which protected the top 5/6 clubs, and meant the other clubs weren't allowed to spend the same amount as them, which means the other teams are playing by different rules, could the 14 clubs not have voted against it, at the time? Totally corrupt.

We could survive with full houses in the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock and a lower wage bill etc. I know it's pie in the sky but, after what they've done to us, I think it would be nice to be a big fish in a small pond, where the powers that be actually appreciate our magnificent club.

And don't let them use the new stadium for their poxy internationals!

I'm not a reader or a big fan of the Mail, so don't know what this journo has written before, but I struggle to see how that article you mention can be called 'shit-stirring'. It is merely reporting the evidence that I think many of us on here already understand.

That May document, in addition to making clear the case could not be completed within last season's duration, also excluded the various applicant clubs (several of whom have subsequently dropped out) from being parties to the commission hearings, while also, setting out the reality that they had recourse to compensation, should we be found guilty of a breach. Which we now have been.

I am somewhat comforted by his suggestion that £100M each is seen as laughably high and if successful, more likely to total tens of millions.

It was also interesting to see his suggestion that 777 Partners have a compensation reserve as well as a relegation reserve built into the transaction price. I assume that means holding a certain sum back when the transaction happens. I am comforted by that.

It increases the chances that 777 Partners will continue to provide the short-term monthly funding we need to avoid administration and, assuming he doesn't pull out, Moshiri takes an ever bigger and deserved haircut. That itself is a good question. Can Moshiri still legally pull out?

I think we should avoid playing the victim too much here. Having read the whole commission report, it chronicles the ineptitude, wishful thinking and borderline deceipt of our owners and directors. I grant you we, the fans, don't deserve to be punished but the club surely did. I'm optimistic we can make good on the 10 points lost, we are playing well enough. I just hope that protection against future financial claims is robust and we remain viable.

"To my mind, it's either one or t'other"

Unfortunately it ain't that simple and more importantly that's not how the Independent Commission saw it.

As for Leicester winning their case for compensation, think what a precedent that would set for Man City if they were subsequently found to be guilty. Every club below them could sue for loss of a a place worth of prize money, Liverpool and Arsenal could sue for loss of titles, fifth placed teams could sue for Champions League qualification etc etc.

Where I'm not complacent though, is our ability to avoid relegation. Ten points is an awful lot to make up. It's true that Luton, Sheffield United and Burnley are atrocious at the moment but it only takes one of them to put a run together (and there are enough games between them for this to be possible) and we will be really up against it.

I still think we can do it and my “Fuck them” attitude will be shared by many but we're only a serious injury or a suspension away from really testing our wafer-thin squad.

Everton and its fans will find a way though!

I don't give a toss about Man City or Chelsea. Two wrongs don't make a right. We have been spiralling out of control for too long now and hopefully this is the bottom from whence we can recover.

But as a cursed club that has had no luck for as long as I can remember, it's been one disaster after another. Some were poor choices but most were out of our own control such as the Icelander saga.

So, if it runs true to form, half the team will end up crocked before long… Watch this space!

It's as if some on here haven't been paying attention to what's been going on the pitch recently. Stats based on the last few weeks point to us getting out of it.

It's depressing but one thing I know about this club is that we are fighters. Not worried and I can see us getting out of this and getting back above other teams.

The 10 points is a massive blow but it doesn't make us a worse team on the pitch. A bigger concern will be our ongoing financial situation and the takeover.

We are currently reliant on loans for the day-to-day operation of the club and if we are forced to sell in January as a result (say any combination of Onana, Branthwaite, Pickford and Calvert-Lewin) then we really could be in trouble as we would then cease to be better than these other teams.

Yesterday's news is already being usurped by a 'what will happen to Man City, Chelsea et al' narrative. It looks as if the media have decided Everton have been dealt with and – save the appeal, and possible administration, and being sued – that's enough about that particular episode thank-you very much.

If only we could be covered in the same way as the neighbours, where an injury to a centre-half is deemed newsworthy some years after the injury occurred, or where a single VAR non-goal decision filled page after page of coverage for up to a fortnight, if not for far longer.

As to the fake empathy shown by some, by no means all, of our neighbours fans, remember it is borne out of self-interest and the tantalising prospect of them seeing another title or two added to their honours list.

I hope Man City get off with it, if the Premier League ever get around to charging them, apparently it could be at least 2 years before there is any prospect of them facing a commission.

If we do end up getting relegated, I hope we take the Championship by storm and then when we have won it, refuse to take our place in the Premier League and continue to do that, year on year ad infinitum or until such time as the Super League is up and running.

Is this true, anyone know?

My very limited understanding is that one club can't sue another club, without it going via the Premier League.

The fact that Everton has been found guilty of the charge levelled against it, means that clubs who feel wronged and are seeking compensation have another 27 days to file for compensation.

Presumably another commission will decide the levels of compensation that Everton would have to pay to those clubs, if that commission finds in favour of the aggrieved clubs.

The case began in March and finished in November but in August the Premier League came out with the guidance that any club found guilty of breaching the P&S rules would start off with a 12-point reduction with points taken off with mitigation taken in consideration. surely they can't behave like this halfway through a trial?

We will get through this by our collective strength and will demonstrate total football character. We didn't fuck it up but we will damn sure make it right.

"The case began in March and finished in November but in August the Premier League came out with that any club found guilty of breaching the P&S rules would start off with a 12-point deduction with points taken off with mitigation taken in consideration. Surely they can't behave like this halfway through a trial."

Dave, the Commission explicitly rejected the Premier League proposal on sanctions; instead they "independently" (cough) set the sanction level.

But maybe your point is still valid, in terms of the decision on the sanctions framework being after the event.

My understanding is that Premier League clubs are allowed to invoke arbitration proceedings against another Premier League club, on the basis of findings by the commission.

That isn't technically being sued in a court of law, but I suppose the impact is much the same, since it can include compensation.

If my understanding is incorrect, happy for others to clarify.

I've never agreed with FFP or seen the supposed sporting benefit. In a business sense, it's anti-competitive, and does nothing but consolidate the ability of the already rich to stay at the top.

It's yet another crap modern day proposal that needs to be removed by legal challenge.

Remember Leicester, dead and buried at the end of the season before they won the league? It's dangerous to assume that the previously bottom three teams are so bad that they can't improve. We don't have a sufficiently strong squad to assume anything, when suspensions and injuries could cause havoc. Therefore, I'm not complacent.

Do I think we can stay up? You bet I do!

I look forward to sticking two fingers up to the Premier League at the end of the season.

One thing you can be sure of is that those who have money to spend will find a way to spend it, which leaves two options, either they have to change the rules or they find somewhere else to spend it.

One of Everton's first calls on Monday could be from Juventus, asking for a little chat and Juventus's next call will be to Man City (who will be cacking their boots).

Mourinho would be in his element now with his siege mentallity, and I am sure the ginger Mourinho will be doing similar.

Fair enough, Brent, but can the commission legally do this? It really does seem they are making it up as they go along.

That would mean the reimbursement of our points and current league position, until such times it can be deemed that the case findings against us are fair, as this is an unprecedented set of circumstances.

Bin the fair handshake before the game, let's snarl and bite like never before. Let everyone know on the TV audience, we are all in this together; every team watching will not want to come to Goodison.

Play with heart, pride and guts, let us supporters walk out of Goodison as hoarse as you have ever been.

COYB let's show them, we are not to be messed with!

- Everton have clearly broken the rules;
- Clubs that have got relegated have complained;
- The Premier League have to be seen to be doing something to appease those clubs;
- The Premier League form an independent commission to make assessment and stipulate punishment;
- They go in hard with a 10-point penalty, knowing that the club will put in an appeal;
- Penalty gets reduced to 5 points on appeal knowing Everton will be happy with that result.
- 5 points will still be deemed to be a harsh punishment for the offence, which makes the Premier League look like it can keep its house in order.

The biggest problem for us will be the ongoing legal battles we will face by some of the clubs who got relegated over the last 2 seasons, which prospective owners may not want to go anywhere.

Man City will have been gobsmacked by yesterday and the precedent it sets. I'm sure we will soon see the result of their ire. 'Maybe Everton were hard done by; yes, take off 5 and everyone goes home happy'.

Michael, I think the wording of the judgment yesterday was intended to preempt any claim like you outline, cos of the horrible can of worms it opens, they specifically say no sporting advantage was gained, I reckon that knackers any claim they have.

All this will do now is for other clubs not to come clean and work alongside the Premier League, they will do everything they can to hide any wrongdoings.

Yesterday, I said if we have been proved guilty, we deserve to be punished; however, now it has come to light that it is a non-sporting technicality over the new stadium, and even though Everton highlighted this, they agreed it was a non-sporting issue and that no sporting advantage was gained.

Yet they still refused to accept Everton's reasoning on this, the reasoning on losing sponsorship and naming rights, by doing the right thing, by immediately removing Russian links, when Ukraine was invaded, was dismissed.

Let us not forget years ago, people of Merseyside were up in arms with Liverpool City Council offering to part-fund the stadium, putting extra money on taxpayers of the region. The owner instead put his own money into starting the build of the new stadium, with the intention of bringing in private investors to help pay for the remainder. It seems now by doing this, this is the very thing that has put us over the threshold by £19.5M.

We were then forced to sell Richarlison for £20 Million less than what we were first offered, due to the Premier League insisting we had to sell on Deadline Day. Why has no one questioned how one of the Premier League lovies came in with a lower offer for the player, this at the time weakened a team out of the Top 6 and strengthened a team in the Top 6 elite, who gave Spurs the wink to go in with a lower offer.

I get not all will want to march down Goodison with placards and pitchforks and will instead accept the punishment. I agree that is your choice, but something stinks about this and supporters need to make their feelings known when we play Man Utd next week.

Okay, leave the pitchforks at home, but you know what I mean, we have to send out a message to the Premier League.

The Premier League is corrupt, banners have already been funded highlighting the corruption, with a very strong agreement from most Everton fans groups to boo the Premier League anthem against Man Utd on the handshakes, to completely drown out and show our disgust towards the Premier League.

Christine #464, no problem, I was being facetious... I tapped out my budget on my trip over the pond 6 weeks ago. I do have a couple of torches that would go nicely with your pitchfork... let's ship them to Goodison!

Mark #549 and David #550, cheers on some helpful analysis. We still don't know what we don't know about the Premier League's decision process, but at least we have a clearer idea of the "basis" for their decision.

The independent commission is not finished from what I can gather. They will hear submissions from other clubs that have been submitted before the 28-day deadline. They will then verify the validity of the claims and decide what compensation is due.

By submitting an appeal, Everton will delay this process. I doubt an appeal will be successful. If compensation is validated, it will be as a fine imposed on Everton by the Premier League, on top of the 10-point deduction.

Like all legal disputes, the settlement available will be determined by the money that Everton have available. The 10-point deduction is enough that Everton can survive in the Premier League and provide a chance that they can fund any fines. I would stick my neck out and say that a fine will not be imposed before Xmas and maybe at least the end of the season, with possible payment terms.

I still cannot believe the sanctions imposed. It is equivalent of an own-goal because the commission has gone for 100%. Everton's management of the narrative was poor and it looks as if their submissions were not up to much. This was previously pointed out by some very acute posters. How right they were. Maybe It was impossible to defend the indefensible.

It is safe to say that those representing Everton had no standing in the Premier League. Maybe Kenwright being ill was a crucial factor, in that those around him were not able to step up to the plate, after years of his style of management.

I have just looked through the report again and the only party who were claiming 'no sporting advantage' was Everton. The rest of the document cites Sheffield Wednesday's hearing and how the Football League deemed any transgression to be treated as gaining a sporting advantage. If there is mention of what you said in this or in another report summary then please accept my apologies.

There is little doubt that the Premier League stitched Everton up and proceeded to copy and paste Football League definitions in order to ensure that Everton were sanctioned with a points deduction rather than a fine or a transfer embargo.

Unfortunately I don't think the commission asserted that no sporting advantage had been gained. If you have found anything in the report that suggests otherwise, please let me know where it is.

I know U21 games are not usually shown on Sky or by the BBC, but this could be a game to show our disapproval at this punishment with a few flags and banners aimed at the Premier League, as surely Sky Sports News will show highlights.

Even some of those “Can I have your shirt” requests on a piece of cardboard, but saying “Fuck off Premier League, you corrupt bastards”, will set the ball rolling nicely for next Sunday.

There may well be a few bigwigs from the Premier League in attendance, and certainly from the FA. I know this has nothing to do with the FA, but they must have mates at the Premier League,

The Guardian reported this a couple of years ago:
Everton Football Club's auditor is considering walking away from its role signing off the club's accounts, raising questions over its financing and ownership, according to sources.

The Guardian understands that the accounting firm BDO has told Everton it will not be conducting the work, a decision which sources said was related to Farhad Moshiri's ownership of the Premier League team. The firm had audited the club's financial accounts for the previous two years, but the Merseyside club is now believed to be searching for a replacement.

Surely this was the canary in the coal mine.

I also remember reading posts on TW about a culture of fear at Everton FC where employees were afraid to voice concerns because of fear of reprisal. Lower level workers in the accounts dept may well have seen cooking of the books but knew that it was in their best interest to keep quiet. That culture starts at the top.

Thankfully all but one of them are no longer involved with Everton FC and the last one should be gone soon. There should be much less temptation to try accounting tricks if the club is run to make a profit.

Let's not forget – this is Everton – not Man City or Chelsea.

The Auditor resigning and the replacement Auditor's Report was the final trigger.

It strikes me as amateurish that our 'directors' were unable to stay within the financial limits, while forgetting to buy players who can score goals and leaving us with a 'non-existent' midfield.

777 Partners could then come in and purchase Everton, we would have got a point-less deduction and started again from scratch, but in a much stronger position.

Yes I've been going off Alan Myers (stupid me). They have said that there was no intention to gain a sporting advantage. Not quite the same thing!

Fully expect that, come next Sunday, Sean Dyche's biggest problem will be ensuring that his fired-up players don't get any silly bookings that could lead to player suspensions later in the season.

Also thinking about any banners for future televised matches, they should be factually based to maximise Premier League embarrassment:

Administration nine points, Overspending 10 points
Murdering regime, fit and proper owners - overspending on players, 10 points etc.
Everton and its supporters forever.

I confess I am not all that familiar with the processes here and hopefully others may be able to chip in.

I think you are right that the application by the affected clubs (and I gather we are now down to 3) will be heard not in a court of law but by the commission.

I'm not sure you are correct that it can only result in a fine payable to the Premier League, unless they are merely acting as collecting agent for the affected clubs. I think the issue of compensation is very much on the table.

Nor do I think that will rely entirely or even mostly on our notional capacity to pay. It will be for the affected clubs to demonstrate loss. That won't be all that easy, hence I wonder if it will be like the West Ham case, and settled outside.

I am encouraged that 777 Partners appear to have included a compensation clause in the sale agreement, meaning they may feel comfortable in continuing to fund our month-to-month working capital (assuming they have the funds to so do), without which we are in administration.

I am somewhat concerned about the extent the owner will be allowed input on any settlement. To an extent, provided the compensation cover is adequate, 777 Partners won't care so much, but Moshiri will.

That is especially so if we transact before the compensation hearing. On the other hand, if transaction has to be delayed until after the hearing, I fear 777 Partners may be unwilling to last the course.

It is my understanding that the £55M or so they have allegedly already put into the club may not be first in line for repayment in the event of administration, so presumably 777 Partners would want to avoid that process. Either way, I'm not sure this will all play out as simply as we might wish.

I agree, our case was poorly presented, and quite possibly just plain poor. The findings were far more negative than I thought they would be. We did not come across in a good light at all, some of the evidence bordered on desperate.

Nor did Kenwright's absence help, or indeed the former CEO and CFO not giving evidence. I imagine Man City's defence might be a bit more robust and professionally organised!

That is exactly what all clubs do to protect the asset from going on the cheap, it means the club will get the best price for the player, doesn't mean we don't want to sell.

Then at least a legal precedent has been set that can be judged as being fair and non-discriminatory.

Fuck them all! Koppites are gobshites and the rest as well! Up The Fcuking Toffees!

It transpires also, that the commission was assembled before the punishment was chosen, ergo the Premier League knew it was going after Everton.

Then, when the commission was installed, the verdict was a 10-point deduction, and apparently it was not a sporting advantage. This could open up a judicial review as the punishment is obviously disproportionate.

The Tribunal for European Law (still applicable) was not constituted by an independent panel and exceeds power: ultra vires and case precedent is Wednesbury Unreasonable.

They broke the rules, lied and denied and got found out and face a massive penalty. Yes, it is totally excessive and unreasonable but the Premier League looking after themselves to try and stave off regulatory action, just like other clubs look after themselves.

Stand up, face it, move on and get on with it – conduct yourselves with class and behind closed doors, not statements saying "Oh it's not fair", and crying about Man City and Chelsea. Pathetic. It's tough at the top and our club is the worst-run club in the Premier League.

I wouldn't bin the pre-match handshake, accompany it with a steely eyeball, but I would definitely cut out the pre-match tunnel banter and friendly laughter...

Mr Pickford, please take note.

David Phillips KC – Wilberforce Chambers
Nick Igoe – Accountant
Alan Eliezer Greenwood – Judge
Angus Kinnear – Leeds CEO
Alan Pace – Burnley Chairman

The lawsuit will still go forward over two remaining charges that 777 violated a good faith covenant and breached fiduciary duties.

Also last week, 777's Bermuda-based life and annuity reinsurance subsidiary had its credit rating downgraded from "excellent" to "fair" by AM Best. The credit rating agency cited a higher-risk balance sheet for the reinsurer, partly because 777 Partners LLC has not provided audited financial statements for 2 years.

So, two of the panel have close associations with two of the clubs who are considering suing us? How can that happen???

Won't be any club left soon.

I believed that those clubs who are planning to sue, couldn't be involved in the commissions process?

What part did the Burnley Chairman and the Leeds CEO play? Where is this information published?

"The Auditor resigning and the replacement Auditor's Report was the final trigger."

So much so that it was not mentioned once in the commission's 40-odd page report.

I assume the 9-point penalty threat would be due to Everton going into administration, caused in large part by those clubs being awarded compensation?

Although I've read that 777 Partners have factored this scenario into their purchase price. Apparently 777 Partners are already on the hook for circa £80M which could rise to circa £100M, to keep Everton afloat, by the time they get approval, if indeed they do.

Only the commission findings would be in the report, Brendan.

The Auditor's Report, like all auditor reports, was qualified by various conditions and would be orientated to avoid being a professional witness. But it would have still been taken note of.

The infringement was for season 21-22. I think only the team that finished 3rd bottom that season should be allowed to claim compensation.

We didn't break any rules last season. So Southampton, Leeds and Leicester can do one.

Bit of a poo show, isn't it.

The club that only got promoted to the Premier League in 2014 through financial doping, eventually found guilty in 2018 and fined all of £3.1M.

The game is rotten to the core.

So you're seriously suggesting the independent commission were influenced by evidence not presented or referred to in their report???

I mean the independent commission is effectively a quasi-court whose decision could be subject to legal challenge and they, according to you, are partly relying on evidence that was not put before them.

That simply wouldn't happen.

I don't think it's as simple as deducing where each team would have finished in the league during a particular season, it's more about whether Everton's actions gave them a competitive advantage over those clubs, as Dave Powell highlights in his report.

Everton have announced an intention to appeal that verdict. The decision has kicked open the door to potential compensation claims to be made by four clubs; Burnley, Leeds United, Leicester City and Southampton. The clubs will need to successfully argue causation, that the steps taken by Everton provided them with a competitive advantage that helped them retain their lucrative top-flight status at the expense of relegated clubs. —Source: Liverpool Echo

I agree, I think it would be very difficult to prove that Everton's actions gave our club an unfair advantage over other teams in and around us.

But given few believed we could be docked points, never mind quite so many points, it's difficult to rule out any scenario, no matter how outlandish it appears.

I put forward the scenario of a fine, but of course the money would go to the clubs involved. I could be wrong, but I can't see the Premier League wanting clubs to sue via the courts, tearing the Premier League apart.

As you say, it will be some type of in-house process, likely undisclosed, like the West Ham situation. But there will be a determination that Everton should pay on top of their points deduction, such has been the momentum of the surprise severity of the decision already made public..

Buyers of Everton – not just 777 Partner – will continue as normal and I think you are correct that Moshiri will pay for his failings.

I agree that there will be twists and turns.

I'm more disillusioned with football now than I've ever been. I have always thought that there is a degree of corruption in football but more from a bias point of view, and consciously or unconsciously from referees. But this is a different level.

And from Boris Johnson giving the Saudis a quiet nod that there will be no obstacle in the way of the purchase of the Skunks due to arms deals between the two countries. Sick of it.

Phew, lucky for us that the fellas at North Wharf Road are so well known for being fair-minded, sticking to the rules, and handling everything and everyone equally.

Instead, each game to be considered retrospectively by a panel of experts and points awarded on a scale that is considered reasonable by them alone and based on criteria that haven't been published.

It's a logical conclusion to their behaviour.

And what I don't know is how many players have contracts which allow release from contract in the case of relegation. Most, I would guess??

104. At one level, disregard of the potential PSR difficulties can be said to increase Everton's culpability. But the Commission considers that there is a danger of double counting. We have already made clear that our approach is to start by considering the extent by which the PSR threshold has been exceeded: the greater the excess, the greater the culpability. We do not consider that the reasons for the PSR breach should aggravate that culpability unless they can be said to constitute exceptional conduct. For example, a deliberate cynical breach of the PSR to achieve a sporting advantage might increase culpability beyond that already arrived at by the extent of the breach.

We do not think that this is such a case. Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach.

NATURE OF SANCTION
133. The Premier League submits that the only proper sanction is a sporting sanction in the form of a deduction of points. It argues that only a points deduction will meet the requirements of the principles that we have discussed above. The Premier League relies on the decision in Sheffield Wednesday FC v The Football League Ltd: a sporting advantage is to be inferred so that anything other than a points deduction would be simply inappropriate.

134. Everton disagrees. It submits that a financial penalty would meet the justice of the case. If some form of sporting sanction is required, the Commission should consider imposing a transfer ban.

135. We have no doubt that the circumstances of this case are such that only a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction would be appropriate. A financial penalty for a club that enjoys the support of a wealthy owner is not a sufficient penalty. We agree with the Premier League that the requirements of punishment, deterrence, vindication of compliant clubs, and the protection of the integrity of the sport demand a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction. The issue is not the form of sanction, but its extent.

I'm not a lawyer but, even if other teams could prove a case, the chances of any legal action coming to fruition in this season is very unlikely.

The £300M and 9 points is media bollocks.

The entire blame for the fiasco was heaped on Moshiri without a single mention of Kenwright.

It is well known that Bascombe is a lifelong Red, indeed he penned a glowing eulogy of the late chairman a few weeks ago, so I suppose the above omission was only to be expected.

Any Premier League ground in the future with a capacity 50,000+ will cost at least a billion. Most clubs will fail the rules. Surely the law has not foreseen that it will unwittingly have to punish almost every Premier League club when the day arrives that their current ground is not fit for purpose as a going concern in its current state?

Isn't the whole thing just a complete nonsense and irretrievable from here on out? Time for a full reset and get the game back for the fans.

You might well be correct, it might not happen this season, if at all. We'll find out in a month or so's time when we'll know whether any or all of the aggrieved clubs decide to proceed with their claims for compensation.

If those clubs do proceed, a date will be set and we'll have to wait to hear what the commission decides. I would imagine should a hearing be required it will be done sooner rather than later, and therefore it might just be fast-tracked before the end of this season.

It's incompetence at the highest level of the club. People can say what they want about the punishment fitting the crime, but the fact that we are being docked points over a £19.5M shortfall is ridiculous.

After sailing close to the line with the Covid write-offs, to give them this chance to punish us, they are all culprits.

The line about not gaining sporting advantage makes me laugh, why have we done this if there is no sporting advantage?

It also points to Man City and Chelsea, these have broken the rules to gain advantage, to win Premier League trophies, Champions Leagues… even the treble!!!!

No punishment they can give Man City will ever put them back to where the club was before the rule breaks, a relagation would be a minor blip, a £100M, £200M fine?? Peanuts to the Abu Dhabi lot!!!

We are being used to see the tone and arguments for the others!!

I call the Premier League out as grubby hypocrites because they took a very different view of the Shady Six who held secret talks with other European clubs regarding the formation of a Super League. In that instance, a small fine of a few millions each was set down and later put aside.

I could go on but it is clear that many have already done so on this thread. I firmly believe that Mr Dyche has already formed a tough mental attitude among the group; we will be fine.

COYB

I don't think the powers that be have given the Moshiri - Usmanov disaster much thought beyond "Yep, Everton are bang to rights, deduct points and lay the groundwork for the big fish".

If genuinely attempting to excise the financial cancer killing the game, they should be applauded — no matter the cost to us.

On what planet can these guys be impartial and independent?

I'm curious.

Now ladies and gents can someone think of a good tune?

Leeds had one about the Football League being corrupt to the tune of "And now you'd better believe us...the Football League's corrupt." Maybe that one?

Over to you. Make this happen v Man Utd with a global TV audience.

We are talking about a major case. There is no way that could be dealt with in 6 months and, even if it could, it would be appealed.

Trust me, this ain't happening before the end of this season.

I don't know where the other two names come from, aside from it may have been them who requested action to be taken by the Premier League on behalf of their clubs.

The FA will do what the government says, and to be honest the government will be wholly behind the Saudis and won't want to piss them off. Man City will be safe.

The appeal will result in the 10 points being suspended for a couple of years. I could be wrong.

The Premier League are a pack of corrupt cunts.

All the arguments at the hearing re interest on the stadium, Covid transfer values, Ukraine war sanctions, the Sigurdsson matter etc were with a view to the commission a) accepting our lower figure – they didn't – and b) mitigating the inevitable penalty – that didn't go too well either.

It follows that any appeal can only be against the severity of the punishment. Thus any of the five clubs who wanted to get involved in our hearing can now apply to the commission (within 28 days) to confirm they are looking for compensation.

The commission will then hear any such clubs (and Everton) and make a decision as to whether any of those compensation claims are good. If they decide they are valid, then the commission will award what compensation for such loss as has been decided and Everton FC Co Ltd will have to pony up.

On the question of whether we gained an unfair advantage, the report only absolves us from seeking to deliberately do so. It's clear to me that their view is that any breach of PRS confers an advantage. Thus any hearing will focus solely on whether those clubs can demonstrate a loss due to our breach.

That's my reading of it, for what it's worth.

That's a big "if" in your last paragraph, but I do hope it's the case. Chelsea might get deducted enough to end up 20th if so.

Hard to imagine anyone looking at our mostly disastrous transfer dealings and concluding that we gained an advantage from them.

So what happens if we get to the end of the season safe and they decide to reduce the penalty by 4 points. Do we start next season 4 points ahead?

Seriously. We need to forget about this penalty being reduced.

We also need to forget about Man City and Chelsea being hammered. Expulsion from a league they are already desperate to break away from hardly constitutes a deterrent to any of the wannabe super leaguers.

Be angry by all means, but don't expect fairness and justice. It ain't happening.

If Dyche and his team are to get any justice, they are going to have to extract it themselves, on the pitch against the so-called big clubs. We will play a major part in that.

There are highly paid accountants and lawyers that dress things up to make black appear white. There were unforeseeable reasons that contributed to our financial transgressions:

1) A global pandemic.
2) Putin doing a Hitler impression, putting our major sponsor on the UK government sanction hit list!

Both unforeseeable, both screwd us over financially.

The 10 points is not going to send us down, unless the wheels come off the Dyche-Meister's steam train.

I worry about the takeover though by 777 Partners. If it falls over or they lead us into administration after taking over, the going into administration is automatically another 9 points deducted! We need that like a hole in the head.

It would be just our luck to fight off this shafting and climb clear of the shit again, to then have administration and be plunged back into the relegation mire.

If we have recovered with a good points cushion before that though, we could still stay up, I believe. But it is certainly all feet to the pump – to stretch a metaphor. UTFT.

Paul (Tran), all the very best wishes for you and yours mate.

The news came through as we were carrying my brother into the cemetery. There had already been some mutterings from fellow bearers about the weight of the load, then came “Fuck, the bastards have hit us for 10 points”. I felt Charlie shift a little, he wasn't happy!

There was much subsequent discussion (correct, to my mind) about the injustice of the punishment. I had the opportunity during the funeral reception to chat with people from Everton in the Community, about the life-changing work they carry out, it was humbling.

We are a proper football club that has been run by idiots for too long. We, the supporters, the core of the club, will ensure we survive this.

Didn't turn out that way.

Now we've people similarly suggesting that our punishment will be reduced on appeal or that we can't be sued by those clubs who feel they suffered detriment as a result of Everton's indiscretions.

Let's hope these posters are indeed correct.

I think you might be missing my point. I'm talking about any claim made by any other Premier League teams.

Any appeal will be heard this season.

I was not opposing your point. I was agreeing with it.

But no we tried to do the right thing.

Goodison Park over the last few years has gone from a fortress and a ground other teams did not look forward to coming to, to a place teams expected a result.

Not any more, blame who sat on that committee for lighting the fuse that visiting teams are not going to be happy playing at Goodison Park, as I believe this decision will galvanize both supporters and team.

Off for another walk in the rain to try and cool down.

I can understand the 3 clubs having a problem with the delay in the hearing, in which case they sue the Premier League.

This story was started by Matt Hughes of the Daily Mail and he has been regurgitating it ever since. He clearly hates us and I would spark the guy out if I met him. I have never held such contempt for a so-called journalist.

Unfortunately just because something is "unforeseeable" doesn't mean it is P&S "deductible".

What irks me is that, despite Everton allegedly keeping the Premier League fully informed... we didn't run the P&S deductions we were intending to make past the Premier League to make sure they were allowable.

"The findings from the investigation clearly state that Everton had no sporting advantage over the 3 clubs."

See Neil #643... final paragraph.

It did not lead to any sporting advantage, any unfair league placing, or any trophy, in fact attempted compliance damaged the sporting ability of the club significantly with players sold for what we could get in an attempt to comply.

A points deduction is vindictive as no sporting advantage was gained or attempted to be gained. The commission found that the management was solely to blame for the inability to comply, not the players or the fans.

By penalizing the club 10 points, they have both financially reduced by exactly £20M in expected income due to league placings, and further damaged the sporting ability of the club with the greater threat of relegation.

The damage publicly to the worldwide standing of the club is immeasurable both in terms of future sponsorship, attraction of future players, and our ability to succeed. All because of a £19.5M shortfall our former CEO and finance director did not deem worthy of contesting at the commission.

We made a mistake, we owned up to it at the hearing with mitigating circumstances, no deception, no unfair advantage.

So, why then are we prosecuted in such a way? Why would the Premier League be so determined to make an example of us that is so disproportionate to the offense other than their own vindictiveness?

This was not a trial, it was neither independent nor fair in its make-up or its intent, it was totally subjective in approach, without precedent and not impartial. It was a pseudo-prosecution designed to ensure its outcome was exactly what was intended. That Everton FC be found guilty and without precedent once again.

The people who could and should have been responsible for the breach, its ownership and board, are not subject to any sanction. But the operational players, staff and most importantly, the fans, are alone sanctioned.

If that's not vindictive, I don't know what is. This is about hurting the club and fans as much as possible because we have a wealthy owner.

That's why the Premier League is corrupt. This decision is not about fairness, it's about threat. Threat of losing power to a regulator.

I know what you write has been reported all over the place, but I have searched and searched the report and there's nothing that says "No sporting advantage" was made, due to Everton's actions.

On the contrary, the commission automatically assumed, that the gaining of a sporting advantage was implied by the fact that Everton broke the rules, even if they didn't – whilst breaking the rules – actively seek to gain that sporting advantage.

The Premier League relies on the decision in Sheffield Wednesday FC v The Football League Ltd: a sporting advantage is to be inferred so that anything other than a points deduction would be simply inappropriate.

I realise It's open to interpretation but it actually stated in the report that there was no sporting advantage in the findings.

I'm no expert in law but it seems highly unlikely to me that the said clubs have a case, when the independent commission have stated that the issue was centred around the stadium build, over-projected league finishes, and us not suing Sigurdsson for breach of contract, leaving a shortfall.

"nor was any sporting advantage gained as a result, also in their view."

See Neil #643 (final paragraph) & Barry #660

Outside of things... your dodgy investor goes down? That's business. Surround yourself with more reliable people.

And can we stop repeating the stadium costs argument? They have allowed all stadium costs and excluded them. It's Everton who tried to disingenuously add operational costs (interest on loans to meet club working capital) to that list. The purpose of those loans is 100% clear – the commission even reproduced the wording in their report.

You know what, screw the P&S and the points deduction. These morons gambled with the future of our club in an amateurish and completely reckless way. Then they tried to concoct a story to get away with it. One that doesn't pass any kind of pub test.

We should be thankful that the Premier League set some kind of limit, because the way Moshiri, our Chairman and our CEO were going... there might not have been a club left.

But 10 points for less than £20 million over the allowed losses (literally half of Sigurdsson's – excuse me, Player X's - transfer fee) does appear harsh.

With this as precedent, I look forward to Man City's and Chelsea's imminent relegation to the National League and all that silverware being stripped.

Even if some goes to LFC!

Are Neil #643 & Barry #660 wrong?

Do me a favour and quote the piece in the report you're referring to...cos I can't find it.

And it would help an elderly Evertonian sleep better!

I know that the Everton news would have knocked you sideways but I do hope that putting Charlie to rest helped you a little in your loss. I bet Saint Pete's and Paul's was packed!

They're avoiding calling us cheats outright. Accusing us of deliberately cheating would be a very big statement. It's one they've decided not to make, because it could simply be absolute incompetence. They can't know the intention, they just have the facts.

But the wording throughout the report is very clear. We did very risky and stupid things, we were very creative with how we accounted for those things in P&S reporting. We did think we could get back within the rules (just) but had some bad luck, but that bad luck was typical of a football club.

They were supposed to be protecting our football club as custodians. They weren't. They took the kind of chances that could have ended us.

Recently I got to spend the day with his eldest (who I don't see very often, living on different continents), we attended the victory at West Ham and it turned into quite an emotional day for me.

May memories of Charlie be a blessing to you. 💙

Your Richarlison example is perfect for explaining why the Commission didn't allow us to claim every possible bit of bad luck. We got £60M for him instead of £80M+ precisely because we are a poorly run club conducting a fire sale just to keep the lights on. That's not bad luck, that's dreadful management. It's entirely an internal issue that means we get screwed over by better-run clubs.

"We should be thankful that the Premier League set some kind of limit, because the way Moshiri, our Chairman and our CEO were going... there might not have been a club left."

Ernie, don't paras 84-90 say that while the Premier League proposed a penalty limit (12-point penalty), this was set aside by the commission, who in para 90 conclude by declining the Premier League's formula and say they will determine the appropriate sanction?

Or do I misunderstand this? Or misunderstand your point?

I think Ernie is referring to the P&S loss limit.

It came up on the Toffee TV report yesterday on the back of the announcement that the independent commission found that there was no attempt at making a sporting advantage, and it was to do with the stadium.

They had John on the show who's worked in big business for years and small Everton shareholder. If he says those were the findings in the 41-page report, then I believe him.

I'm certainly more inclined to believe well-presented facts and logic over the nasty campaign of Matt Hughes and the Daily Mail.

No pressure, Eugene... hope all is well with you,

“150 defeated 3,000. We can do this Everton. Siege mentality but we will do this.”

If you are referring to the battle I think you are, my understanding was that the 150 didn't actually defeat the 3,000 and the siege may have even been curtailed to honour the bravery of the besieged.

I doubt the Premier League understands ‘honour' in the same way and fear they could easily destroy our club in their drive to avoid exterior regulation.

That's why I'm annoyed with anyone saying what happens to Man City and Chelsea is immaterial; to me, any delay to hearing their cases and setting their punishment threatens any likelihood our punishment will ever be proportionate.

We've seen it before, where we get the early punishment and then it's watered down or binned for any that come after.

This isn't the same as Niasse getting slammed for successfully deceiving an official, the club could afford that punishment. The club simply may not survive if this 10-point deduction sees us relegated and then pursued for compensation by those clubs who can claim our survival over the two previous seasons saw them relegated.

Deferred justice for Man City and Chelsea should mean deferred justice for us as well.

I'm no Lennon or McCartney but will give it a crack, may need a bit of tweaking.

I give you a scaffold double bill, first to the tune of Lily the Pink:

The league's corrupt, corrupt, corrupt
The league is corrupt, corrupt, corrupt
You can stick your 10 points up your arse
You'll soon be crying
When we start flying
Moving up the Premier League

If we beat Man Utd, we can round it of with

Thank you very much for the 3 points, Man U
Thank you very much, thank you very, very, very much.

I will get my coat and leave it to the experts to knock a tune up.

The fund raising is to go towards making banners and flags for the game next Sunday. Going to be some serious wording on those flags and banners, all directed towards the Premier League.

The atmosphere next Sunday could possibly eclipse that of the Palace game two seasons ago, and Bournemouth last season.

From the Report which you didn't/couldn't quote:

"Further, as was recognised in Sheffield Wednesday FC v The Football League Ltd a breach of the PSR will confer a sporting advantage on the defaulting club, to the detriment of competing clubs who have managed their finances more responsibly"

How's that for "well-presented facts"

ps: Seriously no malice intended... just flagging stuff up to a fellow ToffeeWebber... hope you take it in that spirit.

What they're saying is that, had we been deducted points last season, then we probably would have gone down, meaning one of them would have stayed up, probably Leicester.

The fact that they, along with Leeds and Southampton, were the three worst teams in the league means bugger all to them.

Did our financial mismanagement make James Maddison fuck up his penalty against us, which, had he scored, would have made it very difficult for us to get anything out of that game.

Leicester probably would have gone on and won that game, meaning a 3-point swing in their favour, and ultimately survival for them.

Mike, when the good Doctor sticks his finger up there on Friday, I'll reflect on Everton doing the same thing to me for most of my 59 years.

We'll know in a couple of weeks if my wife needs surgery.

Hope all goes well for you and your wife...

I will say a prayer for you both tomorrow at mass.

For John Deere Tractors :-)

Fingers crossed, Paul Tran, for you and your wife, mate!

According to reports, Richarlson went for around £60M. In my opinion, it should have been around £80M given his status as Brazils No 9 and his performances, goals and assists, in keeping us up during 2021-22.

He was 25 at the time, with the best years of his career ahead of him. He had 38 caps and had scored 17 goals at that time. I would suggest that given the figures shown below, we sold Richarslon for at least £20M to £30M below his actual value.

We all know who did that but we were forced into doing it because of Covid, the invasion of Ukraine, and Player X losing his value – or am I wrong?

Chelsea: Cucarella £60M, Fofana £75M.

Man City: Phillips £50M

Liverpool: Nunez £85M. He was 23. Had 14 caps with 2 goals.

Man Utd: Casemiro £70M, Antony £86M. Antony was 21, had 12 caps with 2 goals.

Barcodes: Isak £63M.

We got £60M for Richarlison.

I think the report took the view that Everton gained an advantage over the 3-year period under review... so the three teams that went down instead of us.

Perhaps there's also one or two teams who can make the case that they only were relegated because they lost to Everton.

Rob H, I read earlier that the 1878s Atmosphere Fund are planning some sort of representation but cannot give actual details yet. All sounds a bit intriguing.

Sheffield Wednesday also got a 12-point deduction halved on appeal, so try and look at the positive from that.

At first you see the articles and think they have no grounds you then read the findings and notice that if we are guilty we are liable.

Surely the FA would not let the club be killed and sent into administration over this, would they?

“Perhaps there's also one or two teams who can make the case that they only were relegated because they lost to Everton.”

Sorry but there can't possibly be more than one per season unless the claim is that some team other than Everton ended up with more points than they should have due to Everton's overspend. That is so ridiculously ‘notional' that it would be impossible to prove.

I'm actually a very positive person and Sheffield Wednesday's case is perhaps a good precedent... The problem is, I don't know the details of the Wednesday case.

Okay... I'm a fecking paranoid bunch of nerves!

Breeeeeathe…

Roll up roll up come one and all!

This could be a critical point re other clubs suing us.

I was just brain-storming, so I'm pleased I can dismiss the complete speculation on my part.

Although when people confidently argued we wouldn't be punished because of our P&S breaches... I was sort of concerned. Tut, tut, eh?

But perhaps... indeed hopefully.

Just as I was about to do an encore as well, you drag me off with your shepherd's crook! :-)

See Neil #643 & Barry #660.

What do you think?

That would leave only Leicester with any sort of case other than teams claiming lost revenue through league placings (Leeds and Southampton) which seems too paltry to even consider. The rest of it, ie, results versus Everton, is too complex and circumstantial to merit a claim, isn't it?

I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility of the club being sued as others have. In fact, I think it's nailed-on we will be sued given we did abuse the rules and it's such a slam-dunk for any half-decent brief.

Complete evisceration on the basis of a potential unfair advantage claim is on the cards unless we settle, regardless of what this report says.

"The rest of it, ie, results versus Everton, is too complex and circumstantial to merit a claim, isn't it?"

If a team were relegated by 2 points and had lost to Everton but would have survived otherwise... not very complex or circumstantial?

Where the feck are the ToffeeWeb stattos who can quantify this sort of stuff?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The Auditor's Report helped trigger the Premier League to take action and set up the independent commission. The independent commission would have looked at the first-hand evidence presented to it.

It would be up to the protesting clubs to present evidence to counter the Premier League statement that Everton did not get a sporting advantage. This would be difficult. Though the process to claim does exist, the statement that Everton did not gain a sporting advantage has all the appearance of being discouraging...

I hadn't thought about the implications of the club being fined by others, which might lead to another 9 points being deducted. If these fines do happen, then we will probably also end up going into administration as well.

Let's face it, Moshiri should have done everyone a favour and sold Everton a long time ago. But he was only a front man for one of the richest men in the world, he couldn't have done this without Usmanov agreeing. If Usmanov is still reluctant because of how much money he's going to lose, then maybe administration will surely beckon?

I'm sure there is a big case to say that it never helped us gain a sporting advantage, simply because we finished lower in these 2 seasons than we had finished in the last 20 seasons.

But it doesn't stop the worry that we have maybe been set up so that we have much bigger obstacles to face in the very near future.

The Auditor's Report had as much impact as you or I posting on ToffeeWeb.

Everton breached the P&S limits... that's why the Premier League took action.

If the Auditor's Report had been in any way significant, it would have featured in the commission's report... it didn't.

Seriously, not trying to be controversial, and I know you're hung up on the "going concern" wording in the Auditor's Report, but the Premier League ain't concerned about that...

It's all about the financial limits and, as I've said, we breached them.

Very helpful, though depressing.

If Leeds were to argue that Everton took 4 points off them, then by the same token Leicester gained 4. So, ignoring the Everton games between Everton and Leeds and Leicester, the table would still have had Leeds and Leicester relegated.

We beat Arsenal 1-0. What would they say if Man City had won the League by 2 points? Where would such conjecture end?

We shall overcome... never doubt that.

I get that but our results against the other teams in or around the relegation zone would have to be taken into consideration also.

As you say, we need the stattos…

I need a drink.

Reading this article on NewsNow Everton, then one of the flags that is shown in the article does show how aware a lot of Evertonians were about the disgraceful way our club was being run. It is definitely these people who are suffering more than anybody else right now, even if it's hopefully going to galvanize us in the end.💙

Everton have been deducted the 10 points this season, when this was carried out this season, the points already sanctioned.

The discrepancy happened in the 2021-22 season, so if everything was as swift as this hearing, we would have got punished within that season.

Neither Watford or Norwich would have avoided relegation, even with the 10-point deduction, the only team that have a case is Burnley, who would have survived.

Any club going down receives a 55% parachute payment for TV rights from the Premier League, each club getting an additional £2.2M for each place higher they finish, so then you have to add the 55% to actual money Burnley received in the Championship that season, and deduct the £2.2 Million they lost for not finishing a place higher.

Then it gets harder how much did Burnley get in the Championship the following season compared to what they would have got for another season in the Premier League.

That's as far as I've tried to work it out.

For me there is only Burnley who have a case.

As much as it doesn't pain me, I have to say I defer to your reasoning!

If we extrapolate it for last season, we spent £6M more than we should, and they will try and say if we hadn't have spent that money, we'd have been relegated? No chance.

They just want us to offer them £10M to go away.

This is the culmination of decades of mismanagement, the one constant being our recently departed ex-Chairman. As mentioned elsewhere, Moshiri was the right investor for him, not for the club.

For once, I'd like to see the club stand up for itself like any of the other monied clubs would, instead of meekly taking a shafting.

The Premier League is a members corporation, but has been led by the big clubs for years. (Liverpool and Man Utd trying to change the overseas broadcast revenues etc.) They absolutely do need regulating – just not by a sleaze-riddled government.

They should've been put in their box a couple of years ago, asking the clubs to pony up £5m as Scudamore's retirement gift. Or before that the 39th international game. Sporting integrity? Dickheads don't know the meaning of it.

Bournemouth are £122 million in debt with an annual turnover of around £54m. They are also building a new Academy & training facilities with a planned new stadium costing around £90m to be built on the current training facilities.

I take it they're next then because a turnover of £54m with a stadium which holds around 11,000 doesn't get a business those toys without Enid Blyton doing your accounts.

Perhaps some of the media outlets are realising – all too late – that the Everton fans were on the right track all along and now they are trying to right that situation. Anyway, the Mail with another fan article by an Evertonian.

EVERTON FAN VIEW: A record Premier League points deduction will be a stain on our name and history.

I'm 99% sure it isn't there. Actually as Brendan has said, quite the opposite, it is assumed there is a sporting advantage and the commission says so. It's the reason the rule exists in the first place, however stupid some (including me) might think it is.

However, it will be up to any clubs suing to quantify the compensation they are claiming and tie it inextricably to the breach. That goes beyond merely the principle but needs calculating and the amounts will surely be contested. I don't think it's as simple as pinning the entire cost of relegation on our breach.

The Tevez/Sheffield case drew heavily on the very substantial contribution this player especially made to West Ham's escape. I think it is a clearer case to argue than our applicants can. Even so, it was eventually settled by agreement, outside the process, from recollection.

I like Simon Jordan's view that the penalty will be reduced to around 3 points, but I can't see it myself. Whether we like it or not, the commission regards a £19.5M excess over what they specifically reference as a very generous ceiling, one high enough to allow for all unforeseen events in their view, as a very serious breach indeed. One we had plenty enough time to put right in their judgement.

Last May 5 clubs applied to the commission to be allowed to join in the case against Everton on the basis that, if Everton were found to be in breach of PRS that they suffered loss as a result of Everton's actions:

IN THE MATTER OF A PREMIER LEAGUE COMMISSION PLJP 2023/3 Date: 9 May 2023 Before : David Phillips KC - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Between : The Premier League Claimant - and - Everton Football Club Company Limited Respondent
Leeds United Football Club Limited Nottingham Forest Football Club Limited Southampton Football Club Limited Leicester City Football Club Limited Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited Applicants

The commissioner refused their application to take part in the case against Everton but said "I am satisfied that the applicant clubs have potential claims for compensation" in the event of a breach being found.

The commissioner then went on to direct that after the case against Everton concluded "...Premier League must provide a copy of the decision to the applicant clubs forthwith. Within 28 days of receipt of a copy of the decision, each applicant club must inform the Commission whether it wishes to pursue a claim for W.51.5 compensation". That is a claim for compensation against the club.

I understand the Premier League has notified each of these clubs, all or any of whom can now make a claim to the commission. If the commission accepts their arguments, they will award compensation against Everton. I think this is clear.
Any appeal by Everton against Friday's decision (which I am all for) can only delay any of these claims for compensation as Everton in amended pleadings accepted they were in breach of PRS. The appeal can only be against the severity of the punishment.

Whether any of those clubs (and perhaps others can also claim under this rule) might succeed in claims for compensation is another matter which will depend on the strength of their arguments and Everton's counter-arguments which might be endless.

However, like Brendan, I don't see anywhere in the decision where the commission say we did not gain an unfair advantage. The decision states:

"Further, as was recognised in Sheffield Wednesday FC v The Football League Ltd a breach of the PSR will confer a sporting advantage on the defaulting club, to the detriment of competing clubs who have managed their finances more responsibly".

Further, the Premier League argued for a points deduction on the basis of the Sheffield Wednesday case, ie, that a sporting advantage is inferred. Everton argued back saying a transfer embargo would be appropriate. The commission agreed with the Premier League, saying:

"We have no doubt that the circumstances of this case are such that only a sporting sanction in the form of a points deduction would be appropriate"

I think the confusion over this issue arises due to an earlier part of the report where the Premier League were seeking greater penalties (aggravating factors) on which point the commission's decision states:

"We do not consider that the reasons for the PSR breach should aggravate that culpability unless they can be said to constitute exceptional conduct. For example, a deliberate cynical breach of the PSR to achieve a sporting advantage might increase culpability beyond that already arrived at by the extent of the breach. We do not think that this is such a case. Everton may have taken unwise risks, but it did so in the mistaken belief that it would achieve PSR compliance: it is not a case of a deliberate breach."

To my reading, that simply says we did not cynically or deliberately breach PRS to achieve a sporting advantage but breach it we did (as we admitted to the commission).

Finally and not wishing to be too pedantic but we are not getting sued – rather these clubs are applying under Rule W.51.5 for compensation to the Premier League commission.

Sorry for being long-winded and happy to hear anyone else's thoughts.

The Premier League in August, prior the the Final Accounts being published, indicated that Everton were within the Profit and Sustainability Guidelines.

What are you suggesting changed their opinion?

"I need a drink."

I've had several... doesn't help one bit.

Absolutely depressed that a club of our standing could be brought to this.

Then calculate the stadium which continually is underfunded, continual loans to stay afloat while we wait for new owners. I have never been so depressed in my life and had to go to hospital to get some medication to calm me down.

I can't see a way out for Everton other than going into receivership and that would be no picnic. To think when Mr Moshiri first took over, he was going to take Everton to new heights… well, he's certainly done that.

They will look at the excess costs and the period over which it was spent. So, for last season, we spent (if we extrapolate) £6.5M more than we should. Does that advantage translate to points on the board? I honestly don't see how it could.

It's the sort of money we lost just by suspending Gylfi Sigurdsson. The whole thing is a nonsense. Tevez banging in goals every week, yes, he kept West Ham up… but us going over our the limit by £6.5M? No way.

We can show, over the last 6 years, there were seasons when we spent over £100M, and finished lower than years when we spent bugger all.

I devour everything Everton related but perhaps I missed that.

So the Premier League indicated that we were within the limits... can you post a link to that?

Given that we fucked up... I think any compensation or fine will count towards our P&S figure.

Demand Government Investigation into Fairness of Financial Fair Play in Football

Then, if that is the case, are we not going to be hit with another point deduction and more compensation claims?

Would we end up in a continuous loop of points deductions? Surely compensation paid can't be used to beat us again.

Double Jeopardy perhaps...fingers crossed 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

Apparently our P&S reporting showed us to be under the limit. We had said that despite losing £378M, our losses for P&S purposes were £87M.

But that was before somebody actually looked at them and said 'Hang on, you've made some very generous interpretations here'.

That's what I was trying to say only you said it more simply, logically and eloquently.

Feck you, Neil!

Apparently it's all in the Auditor's Report...

I've read it a few times (unlike the independent commission) but apparently I'm still missing something.

Sorry, if someone has already given an explanation and I've missed it.

Surely these clubs are better served suing the Premier League?

Thank you, that makes sense.

Brendan it was definitely reported at that time (though it may have been an Everton leak) but it seems that it was based on creative accounting by Everton, which was in contrast to the final accounts that the Auditor signed off on, with a qualifying statement regarding concerns about Everton as a going concern should they be relegated.

It seems that, during the monitoring period, Everton tried to sell the Premier League a pup. They may have also tried the same with the original Auditor, hence their resignation.

It looks like Barrett-Baxendale and Inglis fell on their swords to appease the situation, getting a pay-off, which now looks like a waste of money.

I did originally think that it was a difference in figures between the monitoring and the final accounts that was the trigger, but changed my mind, since I could not fathom that Everton would attempt such a thing. That is the reason I though the Auditor's Report was the trigger. It appears according to the Commission report that it was the former.

It's an overspend judged over 3 years isn't it? So you can overspend as long as, at the end of a rolling 3-year period, you are back within the limit?

I think a can of worms may have been opened by making the punishment points that would have seen us relegated in the previous years.

If the Premier League allow everyone who feels aggrieved to now take their pound of flesh from Everton, then I feel they have potentially misrepresented the jeopardy for a club periodically trying a cash injection to improve their competitiveness.

When we meet when/wherever on the WAW... you're paying for the Guinness but no doubt you'll even spin that at the time!

Look after yourself til then.

That is my understanding from reading the report and it helps that you quote the relevant sections. The bit that I think confused people was the assertion that we did not deliberately and cynically breach P&S and so gain a sporting advantage. We did so on the back of what was basically wishful thinking – but the sporting advantage still holds even if not deliberately gained.

In thinking about our defence against compensation, and here I am speculating without any legal expertise, but I wonder if some of the elements we put forward as mitigation might get another outing. Because it is one thing for them to fail as part of the ruling on P&S, but perhaps another matter as being evidential that overall, no sporting advantage could accrue. I'm think here, especially, of the stadium and interest costs because our excess was in fact spent on the stadium, not players.

A new stadium might well confer a sporting advantage, through extra revenue, but that is something that will happen in the future, and cannot apply to the past. Of course, I can give the counter argument, but it might help.

Ultimately someone has to demonstrate that, on the balance of probability, our having notionally an extra £6.5M per season meant we could keep a player that swung the balance in our favour in avoiding relegation. I'm struggling to see that stacking up or at least it strikes me there is a lot of uncertainty over it.

On reflection, neither am I certain that simply assuming a 10-point deduction can be applied any further back than last season at best, since this breach is specific to our position at the end of that season (and even then, that is moot). Since we now have a 10-point penalty, there is arguably a risk of double punishment. And if it applies, it can only apply to one club, Leicester.

I hope we have enough money in the kitty to brief m'learned friends of a rottweiler type. I am tending towards an earlier poster who suggested it might just be a case of chucking £10-20M, but that club would be Leicester. I think the others are barking up the wrong tree. I think we might also want to hope Leicester succeed in getting promoted, just as a backstop...

That Kenwright comment alone, amid many other comments and decisions he made before and after the disastrous involvement of Moshiri, now provably exposed as a fucking useless accountant, tells anyone with the slightest grip of reason and accountability than Kenwright, and Moshiri, are a pair of useless tossers.

Rest In Perdition, Kenwright, you greedy avaricious deliberately unaccountable shyster.

Your horrible legacy may well soon kill us.

Everton fan's view: Premier League's 10-point penalty simply doesn't add up

I messaged my good friend DK yesterday with a similar message. Haven't posted as I may go overboard.

Bad 2 weeks for me with my daughter just coming out of hospital and the shit hitting the fan with the deduction.

Wherever we end up and however much we suffer, we will still fill a new stadium every match. They can break our hearts but will never break our spirit.

Thankfully never again to be shafted by supposedly one of our own.

I don't know but it's possible that at one time that was true. We were a poorly run club that generally was on the right side of history.

We tried to develop a team, bit by bit, and were just about competitive in the biggest league in the world. Not exactly 'good times', but it's all relative. I think we were working to an Ethos. We had our rules on what was appropriate.

Then Bill and Moshiri ushered us into the world of ends justifying means. We've all talked about shady deals in Everton's past (every club had those) but this one took the biscuit.

We were pretty blatantly being owned by a guy who also had significant ownership in another club. Why even bother arguing it? We were trying to push Russian (via an Uzbekistani and an Iranian) money into the club so we could spend up and catch up. We became an oligarch's plaything.

Then it all came tumbling down when it turned out that gambling your entire future on your ability to funnel dodgy money through fake and ridiculous sponsorships wasn't a safe approach.

I've had a few Changs in my time, but have any Evertonians bought millions of tonnes of structural steel lately based on USM sponsoring us? No, me neither.

These guys risked our club. 700-odd posts in this thread and most seem to be aimed at the Premier League, or the Commission, or the relegated clubs suing us, or the 'Big 6'.

Why isn't there more anger at the club? The Chairman, the puppet owner, the real owner, every executive who watched this happen, and everyone who was complicit in it???

Never mind the £19.5M over the maximum. Nor the £124.5M that is the actually reported loss for P&S purposes. And certainly don't worry about the £87M we claimed it was. What about the £380M they actually lost? And then tried to lie about it... to the point where Everton currently sit joint bottom of the league and are being publicly declared to be cheats in all but that exact word.

This club that defines my identity as much as anything else in my life is skint, bottom of the league, and are a pack of liars. Awesome isn't it?

At an outcome level, this point is being cited based on our finishing position in the league in the 3 seasons in question.

Given the fundamental issue here is our ability to write off interest on intercompany loans that Everton made to Everton Stadium Development Ltd, then there is no sporting advantage gained there.

Equally, asserting that the loss of £200 million committed by USM for stadium naming rights effective immediately cannot be cited as mitigation is comedic. The Russian-Ukraine war has caused global economic shock-waves and there was a direct impact on this commercial deal.

This is fundamentally a debate about accountancy principles, and therefore should have resulted in a financial penalty. Not a sporting penalty.