14/01/2024 175comments  |  Jump to last

Everton are expecting to be referred to an independent commission for a second year running alongside Nottingham Forest for breaching the Premier League's Profitability and Sustainability Rules, according to The Athletic.

David Ornstein reports that the belief is that both clubs will be charged by the League for excessive spending, even though Everton have a positive net-spend in the transfer market for the past three years.

If true, it would contradict the noise emanating from the club earlier this month that the Blues would be in compliance for the last financial year which ran to June 2023 but would confirm rumours at Goodison Park during today's game against Aston Villa of an expected charge and speculation over the possibility of a suspended 10-point deduction.

Under the Premier League's new protocol, designed to expedite the adjudication process so that penalties can be applied in the same season, clubs had to submit their preliminary accounts by the end of December.

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According to Ornstein, the submitted accounts are expected to show Forest in breach, having spent over £250m on new signings since they were promoted in 2021, while Everton's sale of some of their most saleable assets didn't go far enough to remain above the threshold.

Effectively, however, any charge by the Premier League and judgement of guilt by a new commission would punish the Toffees twice for two of the last three seasons and would come on top of the 10-point deduction the club have already received and against which they are fighting with an appeal set to be heard in the coming weeks.



Reader Comments (175)

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Dan Nulty
1 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:35:41
We have to go all the way to the Court of Arbitration for Sport with this.

It is utter madness that the punishment for failing PSR could effectively relegate us and put us into administration. It does not make any sense at all.

Andy Duff
2 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:36:51
It's madness that you could have one really bad year and it hits you potentially 3 times.

The clubs should never have agreed to this from the start.

Brendan McLaughlin
3 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:42:19
Expenditure on the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock doesn't count towards PSR.

Unless of course we're playing silly buggers again.

Philip Bunting
4 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:47:04
Rules brought in to keep you solvent yet the Premier League seem to be doing their utmost best to put us out of buisness. Madness.

Football has become the most horrible experience... all we want is to watch our team over 90 minutes play football. How hard do they have to make it, for fuck's sake?

Paul Hewitt
5 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:51:35
Philip @4. It's not a sport anymore, I don't know what it is. But I don't like it one bit.
Ian Edwards
6 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:51:41
Rules don't permit going to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
Don Alexander
7 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:56:07
Who knows given the shit-house that is, ahem, "Premier League Governance"?

But given the self-serving morons who spent years and, in one case, decades acquiescing to whomever behind the scenes whilst actively and always unaccountably infesting our club with ruinous plans, signings, employees and lies to us lot, are we at all surprised?

Christine Foster
8 Posted 14/01/2024 at 21:58:56
I wrote this on the FAB piece earlier today but in light of the comments that we could be in breach once more, I have copied it here where it is more appropriate. My apologies if you havr already read.
When ownership or senior management are incapable of ensuring the survival of a club, or are only concerned with their own gain, then they are not fit to run a club. For theirs is also a social responsibility to a community, to a sport. Pure financial gain cannot be the only driver of ownership. Control of the future and we'll being of clubs are the joint responsibility of owners and fans. Too long have we seen owners use the club as a personal plaything. Many wealthy people have unlimited access to finance, yet now under the guise of FFP and PSR, their ability to learn from their mistakes, to protect a club from their failure, to build for success, is removed. Moshiri knew nothing of football, believed in the passion of others, made mistakes without competent guidance, that is clear. But he stands to lose it all because of the incompetence and corruption of the management of the Premier League. Say what you like about Moshiri, but that's not right either.
There needs to be a different contract between ownership and fans, a charter we all agree to go by, no matter what league, with independent support for clubs, owners and fans. No one group has responsibility for the future of the game. We are all in it together, we all should have the support we all need.
Ian Edwards
9 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:04:16

You mention rumours of a suspended 10-point deduction. Please could you elaborate? Is that in respect of the appeal or the potential new charge?

Kristian Boyce
10 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:08:34
Conveniently done before the original appeal is dealt with. Which now makes that harder to appeal as now we’re classed as ‘serial offenders’. The expedited push of this second round of offences hasn’t given us a fair chance of getting back any of those points. Pure corruption again from the league.
Paul Hewitt
11 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:12:29
You have to wonder how the players will react to this. This could be the news that makes the players give up, and you can't blame them.
Brendan McLaughlin
12 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:18:19
Paul #11

Seriously doubt the players are as spineless as some on here!

Tony Abrahams
13 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:18:50
I know I said I was writing my last post until the spring on New Year’s Day, but after hearing this news and remembering that it is twelve months to the day, that the Everton board, tried to throw the fans under the bus with disgusting pre-meditated lies, then I’m hoping that those equally disgusting people involved in the EPL, have as much sympathy for the great Evertonians, as they had for the fans of the greedy six!

Who wouldn’t take a year in the championship, just as long as Everton is sold to the right people? Especially if these people have a genuine thought out plan. Maybe I’m in a minority, but just getting away from VAR, and watching every single team cheating like fuck, would personally make the whole thing worth it for me.

Tom Cannon
14 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:19:07
Simple question - What’s the difference between the Post Office and the Premier League, the Post Office is more accountable … just what are the external checks on its decisions?
Tom Cannon
15 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:21:27
Simple question - What's the difference between the Post Office and the Premier League?

The Post Office is more accountable … just what are the external checks on its decisions?

Craig Walker
16 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:23:12
It really is time we just all gave up.

The Sly 6 have pulled up the ladder with the media and particularly Sky’s help. We can’t compete even when the season begins on an equal footing of 0 points with 11 v 11 on the field, let alone having a 10 point deduction and VAR/refereeing decisions going against us week after week. I said last week that the Calvert-Lewin red card was nearly the final straw for me. Another breach announcement would just sink us. It just makes the attempts of clubs like ours to break into that group futile, The Premier League, media, Sky, ex RS pundits everywhere are ensuring that a Leicester City title win never happens again. Even the Skunks with their money and resources are being excluded from the Greedy 6. I can’t take much more. A beautiful modern stadium to generate more revenue and bridge the gap is what we demanded but, at this rate, we won’t have a team to compete in it.

Paul Hewitt
17 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:29:00
Just stop watching PL games unless we're playing. Probably won't make a difference. But least your making a stand
Brendan McLaughlin
18 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:29:03
Tom #14,

You don't get sent off for a "stamp" with the Post Office?

Colin Glassar
19 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:29:20
If this is true, then just shoot us and put us out of our misery once and for all.
Ian Pilkington
20 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:32:04
Isn’t The Athletic a website written by juvenile journalists?
Iain Jones
21 Posted 14/01/2024 at 22:38:16
Agree Colin. We’re fucked of this is true!
Bobby Mallon
22 Posted 14/01/2024 at 23:08:40
Just keep going and tell ‘em to go get fucked
Paul Birmingham
23 Posted 14/01/2024 at 23:12:37
Who really knows, and with so much going on off the park this morning! and the press that Andy Burnham and Steve Rotherham, have collectively generated, with the support of x3 high profile people in UK business, well done and fair play to them.

But knowing tomorrow any clubs in line for potential action, by the EPL, will be told, then what about the biggest guilty party in Man City?

Jeez, they appear to have diplomatic immunity.

Let’s see what is confirmed factually by the official sources tomorrow.


Si Cooper
24 Posted 14/01/2024 at 23:16:07
Surely not even the Premier League bosses would think that they could punish a club twice in one season for something that gets measured once a year?
When did they change the rules and say that, all of a sudden, they could accelerate the process?
If allowed to happen the situation will only exist for this one season and so the double punishment could only ever be applied to one club? Even those who think we deserve punishing for spending too much and getting worse can’t think it would be right for only one team to ever be liable for dual punishment when other teams are continuing to have the investigations into their over spending indefinitely delayed.
We’ve cooperated with them and they think it reasonable to give us a uniquely harsh punishment?
Danny O’Neill
25 Posted 14/01/2024 at 23:17:44
After 4am start, I've just got home.

I'll write up tomorrow about what I care about.

Everton and football.

These people care not and have no understanding of either .

They weren't in Goodison Park this afternoon with the near 40,000 including the Villa supporters

Jim Wilson
26 Posted 14/01/2024 at 23:42:54
It is time for a breakaway league if true or not.

The relevant 14 need to vote out the corrupt 6 and sack masters.

What has been going on this past year is beyond belief.

Julie Naybour
27 Posted 14/01/2024 at 23:54:01
The rumours are pesistant so this is looking like a genuine pissibility. But after a number of years of mad spending the last couple have seen us spend v little. So how can this be???? I don"t get it?
Gavin Johnson
28 Posted 14/01/2024 at 00:01:47
So we are being punished for improving our infrastructure and regenerating northern Liverpool by building a new stadium.

This has nothing to do with buying players. We're in the bottom 3 for overall Net spending in the last 5 years.

If we get another points deduction it is unequivocal proof that being in the PL pointless unless you are part of the top 6 cartel.

Julie Naybour
29 Posted 15/01/2024 at 00:23:53
I agree with earlier suggestion. We need a breakaway league. This is beyond rediculous
Jim Wilson
30 Posted 15/01/2024 at 00:23:56
It really is time for people to wise up. We haven't spent hardly anything on players for at least two and a half years but we have had to sell our best players.

This is about the new ground and who might want to mess things up for us.

Steve Brown
31 Posted 15/01/2024 at 00:28:36
Admit nothing.
Jonathan Oppenheimer
32 Posted 15/01/2024 at 01:53:42
My initial reaction is to again say, Fuck the Premier League. And yes, fuck the Premier League.

But while I still don’t fully understand what this charge will look like, because I too thought stadium costs were not included in these calculations, and while it also seems ludicrous they could charge us twice in one season, I can’t wait until they hit us with another 10 point deduction and we still survive this season.

Colin Battison
33 Posted 15/01/2024 at 02:52:15
You don't say, of course there is Everton the nice club, care in the community, getting thrown under the bus once and for all. Facts are like other posters have mentioned we are in the bottom 5 of net spenders in last few years so it's all stadium stuff which is insane...

Man City: 115 breaches...deal with them in 25 years maybe...chelsea spent over a billion...in last 12 months...erm how many rats can you smell?

50 years of loving our beautiful game and it's getting taken away from us rapidly... nobody is into this pure shite anymore.

Kieran Kinsella
34 Posted 15/01/2024 at 03:01:40
So much for Paul Quinn The Esk and his sources we were compliant. Tired of that joker and his faux in the know stuff.

Secondly, I’m tired of the eulogies for our late chairman because he gave someone a light at an M60 service station 9 years ago type of thing so he’s “one of us.” He wasn’t. He was a self interested charlatan more interested in himself than the club.

Thirdly, I’m tired of the EPL and the bullshit rules where you can join a rival league without significant consequence, but you can try and compete and get hammered.

Fourthly, fuck 777 partners and their 20 percent predatory takeover thats spelt doom for every other club they’re attached too. Best thing we can do now is to spend a fortune in January then go into administration so 777, Kenwrights Riverdance mate et al lose everything then hope some sensible scousers steps up buys the remains and gets us back into the prem in a year or two. Failing that, my long term back up plan — let “Everton” go bust buy Marine FC and the hair built Stadia change their name do it the hard and probably cheaper way by rising up from league 9. It’s OK to murder 39 Italians. It’s ok to take bribes (Graham of Arsenal) it’s ok to support racism (Dalglish) it’s ok to run up a billion dollar debt (Glazers) or to dismember people (Saudis Newcastle) but seemingly it’s unforgivable to make shit managerial and player signings after Kenshite ran the club into the ground.

Craig Harrison
35 Posted 15/01/2024 at 03:04:40
Is it not the case that we will be found in breach but then put forward x deductions to bring us in line with the spending limit?
Ernie Baywood
36 Posted 15/01/2024 at 03:08:10
Jonathan @32 – stadium spending is excluded.

This new charge was foreshadowed in the commission's report into our breaches for the period to 2021-22. Everton argued they were trying to do the right thing but the Commission noted that the annual position had actually got worse in the next year. (Note I'm paraphrasing from memory).

You would imagine our punishment couldn't again be 10 points. That's a pretty clear double counting. Maybe 3 points if we breached while improving, or 5 points if we got worse.

I'm a bit more surprised about the Forest case. They're saying their allowable losses are only £61M (compared to £105M) as they were in the Championship for two seasons.

So teams coming up can't invest to the level of existing Premier League clubs... isn't that just trying to maintain the current Premier League membership?

Ernie Baywood
37 Posted 15/01/2024 at 03:10:51
Craig @35 – we've already done that.

We've submitted our PSR calcs which takes the accounts and then excludes things. It sounds like the Premier League doesn't agree with our assessment (again).

Jonathan Oppenheimer
38 Posted 15/01/2024 at 04:00:06
Thanks, Ernie, for that clarification.

Kieran, 34, I agree with every word. To think how terribly ironic it would be if we survived all this nonsense and then new ownership was the actual final nail in the coffin.

I guess the best-case scenario now is that we survive all this, 777 Partners come in and get the stadium done, then sell when we're on better financial ground. Isn't it Mike Gaynes who has said he thinks MSP has some designs on a takeover down the line?

The owners and board members who got us into this mess, as well as the Premier League powers that be punishing us for it, are both complete clown shows.

Jay Harris
39 Posted 15/01/2024 at 04:40:16
Let's just wait and see. It may well be that our bottom line is bleak with all the dead wages we've been paying to the likes of Sigurdsson and Dele Alli but there are adjustments to be made for the interest on stadium spending and we've had a fair bit of income from Gordon and Kean sales and a few academy lads.

However, the whole process stinks. Whoever set the £105M limit did not allow for inflation since 2014 and an imbecile can tell that a £30M player in 2014 is now going for £60M+.

The Premier League stinks of greed and corruption from officials to management to influence from the media and dictated by the so called Big 6 – half of whom have not won half as much as us nor the Villans.

I've gradually lost interest in football except for Everton and, if the powers that be decide to kill us, that will be me finished. Greed and corruption have already ruined boxing and golf. Looks like football is arriving at the same station.

Ernie Baywood
40 Posted 15/01/2024 at 05:03:54
Jay, your boxing reference is interesting.

The Saudis pretty much own the heavyweight division right now and it's hard to argue that they haven't revitalised the matchmaking at the top end of that weight class.

Likewise the Emirates are into football in a big way and the product at the top end is apparently very popular.

We're the smaller weights, or more likely the heavyweights outside of the current Top 6 or so. There are great riches available if we can get to the big show, but the system isn't going to be giving us that opportunity. They only want the big names.

I remain convinced that both boxing and football are headed for an implosion. You can't just focus on the top few without elevating the structure underneath them that put those guys there in the first place. It's not sustainable.

Steve Oshaugh
41 Posted 15/01/2024 at 05:04:32
I have very little confidence that we have made the necessary adjustments to be honest. We've been a financial shit show for a long time now. I don't agree with the FFP calculations or system at all but we have to face the fact they are what we have to deal with.

I see some ToffeeWebers are saying we will be double penalised which doesn't seem logical to me. It is a rolling 3-year period with the idea that if you've overspent in year 1 and 2, you have to cut back dramatically... not sure we have done that.

Every time we sign someone, I wonder where the cash has come from. Today will show us if it was from the never-neverland again

Alan J Thompson
42 Posted 15/01/2024 at 05:37:49
If this is true then Everton have to oust those responsible. Being outside the set parameters for one term might be plain bad luck when it boiled down to if one loan was used for everyday running costs rather than the new stadium but to do it again the very next year demands an explanation.

There must now be some noise made as to why we may be investigated two years running (or should that be over two lodged sets of accounts?) and another in its first year back in the Premier League.

Meanwhile, another club faces a possible 115 charges that have lain dormant for several years, plus other clubs about whose spending there must be doubt it can be covered by their income, which doesn't seem to have been outside P&S guidelines in their lodged documents.

Ernie Baywood
43 Posted 15/01/2024 at 07:12:06
Steve 41, I suspect we haven't done that either. But, to be fair to the incompetent fools leading our club, I believe they thought they were making progress on improving the position.

Whereas what they were actually doing was moving things around to make the PSR calculation look better.

They didn't understand the difference until we were actually charged.

Mal van Schaick
44 Posted 15/01/2024 at 07:18:47
Have these people got nothing better to do than analyse accounts because in their rule book financial breaches have happened?

Playing god over a Premier League club's future is not in the best interests of football, and it appears that other clubs are not in line for scrutiny because they have found loopholes to avoid punishment and ultimately gain an advantage over other clubs.

The Premier League appear to be ‘cherry picking' its targets in a show of strength, maybe from complaints from other Premier League clubs who are hiding behind false accounting.

The whole matter has to go to court in order to highlight the bias that is taking place and clear dividing lines being used to belittle clubs whose face doesn't fit.

Peter Quinn
45 Posted 15/01/2024 at 07:18:59
According to an article by Martin Samuel in The Times, the P&S rules are to be changed in August. No explanation yet as to why. An admission perhaps that they are not fit for purpose.

We can only wait and see what happens today. There is much doom and gloom here but there is an awful lot of water to go under the bridge yet. There is still the appeal.

The letter sent yesterday by the former Governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney and others to the Premier League was a big help and very persuasive. This is going to be a roller-coaster ride.

Danny Baily
46 Posted 15/01/2024 at 07:28:41
We might be pleasantly surprised to find we've not been charged.

And if we have been charged, it doesn't necessarily mean a points deduction, let alone another 10-point reduction this season.

Laurie Hartley
47 Posted 15/01/2024 at 07:50:44
“Somebody” is going to get a proper football club and a brand new “Euro 2008” state of the art stadium for buttons this year.

As Don Alexander posted on the other thread, Farhad Moshiri is “a herring in a sea of sharks”.

I retain strong suspicions that “some powerful entity” not related to football is pulling the strings here.

Iain Jones
48 Posted 15/01/2024 at 08:00:32
Jay I totally agree with your comments and this is how I feel. But I have a real worry that the people who run our club are hopelessly out of touch with how FFP works.

I also wouldn't trust the Premier League if my life depended on it. They remind me of the government, incompetent and corrupt!

Pete Neilson
49 Posted 15/01/2024 at 08:41:11
Occasionally “the rules” of any organisation are shown to be not fit for purpose. This is a further example of the ridiculous nature of the P&S rules, it's double jeopardy for two of the years under investigation.

This is on top of the made up on the back of a fag packet 10 points sanction. Actually it's not just the rules, the whole EPL administration is showing it's not fit for purpose.

Peter Mills
50 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:03:59
Kieran, your suggestion (#34) that Everton should “buy Marine FC” may, or may not, have been made with tongue in cheek, but I would prefer them not to!

I have supported both clubs for over 60 years, although I have devoted far more time and emotional effort to Everton over that time. However, increasingly, I am drawn to lower league football. Judging by the Mariners 300% rise in support over recent seasons, I'm not alone.

There are some very clear reasons why people are heading to College Road. It's a lot cheaper to get in. You can drink a pint whilst watching the game. A goal goes in, you take a quick glance at the ref and the lino, and you know whether it's going to count. The football is more robust, but generally more honest.

Marine earned a great pay day when they played Spurs in the FA Cup. “Earned” because they won more games in the competition that season than the eventual trophy winners, starting with an away game in August where I was one of a crowd of 50 and we had a laugh with the locals up in the Lancashire hills.

The money earned from the Tottenham encounter (when 30,000 people from around the world bought virtual tickets) appears to have been managed much more prudently than Everton have managed their pot of gold. Improvements to a function room and the creation of a bistro generate extra revenue, and the installation of an excellent 4G pitch means a better quality of football throughout the season, and use of it every night by boys and girls learning the game.

This is a prime example of how the money swirling around football should be trickling (or, preferably, cascading) down to the grassroots game. It really can be of great benefit to society. Instead, it is all being hoovered up by the few, who are desperate to preserve the closed shop. Everton are knocking on the shop door after it has closed, and those inside are doing their best to bring down the shutters.

Jerome Shields
51 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:16:21
Wait and see what actually happens. It's January and Everton are on the agenda of every news desk. Though I did have my doubts about the leak that Paul the Esk quoted. Too much like the previous leak in August before the first breach.

I just think that the Premier League and the Football League are syncing in case of relegation and in the case of other teams with crippling point deductions.

Ken Kneale
52 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:19:28
Peter – what a great comment.

I am sure many will be 100% in agreement with you.

Andy Duff
53 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:29:26
Peter I'm the same with Prescot Cables. I've started watching their games and it's far more enjoyable.

Proper football no play acting, no VAR, a goal is a goal, cheap to get in, and a sense of community. They recently had 1,100 for a game.

If this latest "breach" results in a further points deduction and relegation, I may never set foot at an Everton match again.

Not only because the game is obviously rigged, but also because the club allowed it to happen.

As fans, we should not have to be worried about finances etc. It's not like we've been blowing money every year recently.

There really is no joy at all in watching Premier League football anymore.

Dave Abrahams
54 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:36:41
Ken (52), which Peter were you referring to, both Peter@ (45) and Peter @ (50)? Both made excellent points which I totally agreed with.

Peter (45) urged us to be patient and let's see how we fare regarding more charges against us – but also saying that, despite all the doom and gloom, there is a lot of evidence to be looked at; we are not yet down and out.

Peter (50) shows how a small non-league club can prosper if they use the money gathered in a proper way that helps the local community and loyal supporters of a club, not wasted as Everton, for one, have done. He also makes the point that plenty of fans are now going to watch honest football without worrying about the VAR and cheating players.

"Hear, Hear" – to both Peters!

Ted Roberts
55 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:48:41
Thats a great peice, Peter @50, but it only stokes my fire more because that's the way the journey started for all our football clubs. The innocence, the desire and the passion of the support of their fans nurturing the club to grow, the weekly distraction for the working man or woman from the grind of life.

The point where we're at now would have been a vision of Armageddon to our predecessors, the point of total self-destruction and obliteration brought about by greed and corruption.

All through life, the owners always run their businesses on profit and gain, that's why they start a business. The working man (ie, fan) is just the pawn in the game, to be treated like crap and totally discarded.

A point that I suspect the Man City fans would argue against vehemently, but if you're brought up on corruption, then it becomes the norm and breeds its own contempt.

I don't honestly know where all this is going to end and it's breaking my heart to witness it with the treatment of Everton. All I can say is enjoy the grassroots, it sounds like it's the true place to be if you want to be treated as an equal.

COYB and thank you so much to all our fans, home and away, who help our lads at this difficult time.

Fran Kearney
56 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:57:32
Craig Walker @16, I agree 100%
I really have given up. After first going to Goodison Park in 1961 as a 10-year-old and standing or sitting in every part of the ground (including the Boys Pen), I am giving up my treasured season ticket and not going to the game for good.

The greed, the hypocrisy and especially the corruption have made this decision easy for me.

I don't enjoy going the game anymore. It's nothing to do with Everton's form or lack of trophies over the past years… it's more about the total lack of respect supporters are now shown.

The game is run, ruled and ruined by money people, ruthless money people who couldn't care less about the likes of me. My season ticket money is a pittance to these people who would much rather kow-tow to the executive box brigade.

Acronyms dictate every single game: VAR, FFP, PSR and most notably EPL have taken over our once wonderful entertaining game and ruined it.

The ruthless backstabbing and jealousy, the continuous mocking of tragedies by supporters has added to my frustrations and despair about attending the game, it's certainly not a pleasant experience anymore.

I really fear for the existence of my club, total ineptitude by a so-called Board of Directors, Chairman, and especially Owner have left us open to these Premier League vultures who seem absolutely determined to make an example of us.

This is not me deserting a sinking ship. I will love Everton FC for the rest of my life – no matter what league we find ourselves in. It is me deserting the once beautiful game I fell in love with all of 63 years ago.

Kevin Molloy
57 Posted 15/01/2024 at 09:59:58
See, we've now got two competitive advantages against the other teams, and that's just not fair. And it's not fair when teams like Man City and Chelsea play by the rules and then realise later that they were at a competitive disadvantage when they played us cos of our wild spending.

We need to be made an example of. It will serve as a useful reminder to the clubs who play by the book not to breach the rules set up to protect clubs from spending too much, cos they know they'll get put into administration.

Paul Hewitt
58 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:00:03
The only good thing coming from this is knowing the Premier League are destroying their own product.

A Super League will happen within the next 3 years and the Premier League will have nothing.

Paul Washington
59 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:01:20
When we were found guilty of financial rules, why weren't we given a time scale to get our house in order? Instead of helping us get on an even keel, it looks like further charges are on the way.

If the latest reports about financial rule changes in August are true, then that says it all about the Premier League, no doubt certain clubs will gain from this. Orwell's Animal Farm quote certainly springs to mind.

Kevin Edward
60 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:08:42
Probably now it's clearer than ever that the Premier League are hell-bent on having Everton FC thrown under the bus and make it impossible to prosper from moving to the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Let's see what the statement says later, but this seems like it could be a fight to the death. Our lawyers need to get serious and go to appeal and have these ‘kangaroo court' decisions overturned.

If we get punished now, you can be sure that the ‘rules' will be changed later, on other clubs' positions. So we should not allow the Premier League to kill us off.

I listened to some of Man Utd vs Tottenham on BBC Radio yesterday. The commentary and comments were toe-curling.
The Premier League surely is ‘the emperor's new clothes' and I hate being in it. But I just can't see how we can operate the new stadium from being in the Championship, the revenue just isn't there.

It will be interesting to hear what Forest have to say about this…

Kevin Molloy
61 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:14:45
Actually, there is no way they can say that excess stadium spending led to a competitive advantage, so at least a further points deduction should be off the table.
Ray Roche
62 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:17:21
Kevin, the P&S rules are changing later this year. Everton are being charged under rules that the Premier League know aren't fit for purpose but, instead of being lenient, knowing that the changes are in the pipeline, they are making an example of us.

We, and maybe Forest, are the only clubs that will be treated this harshly. You can bet that by the time Man City are before an 'Independent Commission', the same rules won't apply and they'll get a fine which they will pay from the loose change in their souvenir shop till.

Kim Vivian
63 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:20:51
What are the odds on the 10-point penalty being reduced to 6 on appeal, and then another 6 added because of the above? Nothing would surprise me these days. I'm just hoping that football might get back to normal one day.

Slightly off-topic but after yesterday's match which, wasn't exhibition football by any stretch, was more like the combative game we (I at any rate) used to enjoy watching.

Kevin, There's no such thing as "excess stadium spending" is there? Other than going over the planned budget. And however over-budget the stadium costs go, that's the investor's problem to address, and has no bearing on the Premier League's P&S rules.

Kevin Molloy
64 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:25:16
Ray, yes the whole thing is just so grossly unfair.

I'm of the view that this is really the government harassing Russian money. I reckon once we are bought again, the Premier League will go back to their usual corrupt sleepy selves. I'm starting to care less, to be honest. The Premier League is such a shit show, it's hard to watch.

There is a fantastic photo doing the rounds at the moment of the 1984-85 team in a beer garden somewhere taken in the last few weeks. A wonderful reminder of what we once had. Reid and Steven haven't altered a bit, they still look 60 and 40 respectively.

Kim Vivian
65 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:31:29
Fran Kearney @ 56 - yes, yes, yes and yes again.

I except you have certainly been to more games than me in three extra years you have over me (more than that if you factor in when I started watching).

Sean Mitchell
66 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:46:37
Fuck off, Premier League. Fuck off, Sky. Fuck off, football. And fuck off, shit-house 6.

RIP the once beautiful game.

Man City need not worry. Nor Chelsea.
Man Utd have a billion-pound debt, but that's okay.

Everton will take the flack and go under.

I hope a curse is set upon the lot of them.

Laurie Hartley
67 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:46:57
Kim # 63 - your suggestion in the first paragraph also crossed my mind.
Jim Bennings
68 Posted 15/01/2024 at 10:53:49
Sooner the Sky Six fuck off, the better.

As with hair gel head Henderson finding out the hard way in Saudi, they won't find it all so simple in their own little European Super League.

Jeff Spiers
69 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:03:01
Fucking spineless greedy bastards. They don't care about supporters. How much wealth do they need??

I have said it for years — the working class means fuck all to them. I hope the penny drops. Take care.

Christy Ring
70 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:13:42
The Premier League is completely corrupt.

Man City were charged with 115 offences before us, and won't be dealt with until next year.

Why is the stadium spending excluded, especially as Man City and West Ham finances include taxpayers' money being used towards their stadiums?

They are changing the rules to suit themselves.

Anthony Hawkins
71 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:17:39
Let's wait and see what the outcome is. Hope for the best, plan for the worst...
Barry Rathbone
72 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:24:49
No matter what happens, we'll survive.

We will fight and not drift meekly into the night; all hands will say "Fuck it – I've had enough". Relegation, administration it's all there but it just doesn't matter.

When a car drives past with an Everton sticker in the window or you see a kid playing footie in his Everton shirt and your brother still gets his Everton mug out for his tea, your heart will stir.

We will be rightly pissed off but we won't give up. The extraordinary defiance that so marks supporters of this club will see us through. And when the sun eventually returns to warm our hearts, neutrals everywhere will smile and say "You deserve it".

Dave Lynch
73 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:29:58
Just get it over with, for fuck's sake. Let them dock us enough to put survival out of our reach, I don't care anymore.

The whole Premier League is a shit show. It needs a high-ranking employee to become a whistle-blower and bring it down, which it more than deserves.

We are Everton, we will prevail.

Jeff Spiers
74 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:33:55
I will calm down soon. Sorry for the bad language (especially at my late age).

Always a blue!!!

Christy Ring
75 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:36:58
I just looked up our incoming and outgoings for 2021-22 season, and we made a profit of £6.5M, so if you're allowed £35M a year, how have we broken the rules, even our wage bill was reduced?
Phil Greenough
76 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:38:40
I thought it was based on an average over the last three years, Christy? However, were we not following their advice about our spending at that time?
Alan McGuffog
77 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:41:40
I agree with the views of many on here. To me, the priority is getting the stadium up and running.

Sure, I'd love to see us as a Champions League club but instead "administration" is the real likelihood.

If we are in the Championship, I can still see us having 40 thousand plus for our home games and pack out smaller clubs' grounds for away trips. Like Man Utd did with their season in the wilderness, 1974-75.

I kind of like the idea of us being a cult club... lower league but with an amazing following. Leave the Premier League to Sky and tourists!

Mark Ryan
78 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:43:15
It took the Sky commentators beyond half time to say “Oh, BTW if anyone's wondering about why the players are wearing the black armbands…”

That's what Sky and the Premier League think of us.

Christine Foster
79 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:44:31
There is a feeling of unique injustice in all of this. That not only have the club been unfairly treated but intentionally so.

From the severity of initial breach, to the double whammy of being penalized twice in a set period, to fast-tracking penalties that see us hit twice in the same season.

Paranoia? Bad luck, or intentional vindictiveness?

Corruption is not just financial gain, it's power... intentional harm for the sake of power is moral corruption. The definition of the Premier League.

Barry Hesketh
80 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:46:30
Barry @72
Stirring stuff, and of course, Scousers are renowned for their fighting spirit and never say die attitude. We must as a fan-base try to rally around the club, regardless of which division we end up in or what financial mess we have to overcome.

I would urge every Evertonian to recruit every single family member, young or old to join Everton's various membership schemes, and show the world, how big this club can be.

Money got us into this mess, but the spirit of the club is of far greater importance and we must support the club as best we can in the coming years - it's difficult, because the urge to throw up our collective arms and say sod it, we hate football, is a natural reaction, and an almost irresistible impulse.

The club for almost 150 years has played a major part of the lives of Evertonians, some would argue too much of our collective time, energy and money has been spent on supporting a sporting entity.

However, if it has meant so much to so many over such a long period of time, it is incumbent on the current fans to carry on that tradition and 'fight fight fight with all our might for the boys in the Royal blue jersey'.

Brian Williams
81 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:48:08
Phil #76. It IS calculated over a rolling three year period. So as each year passes the earliest of the three drops off the calculation as the new year is taken into consideration and becomes the third of the three to be used.

£105m over a three year period DOES equate to £35m per year but it's not that simple.

If you make a loss of £5m in year one, £5m in year two and on the third year a loss of £90m you're in the clear, theoretically (for THAT three year period)

The £35m per season is basically just £105m divided by three.

Jerome Shields
82 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:48:47

I have been a admirer of Lower League football for sometime. But I have always supported Everton and relegation last season would have bust the Club. I do think the Premier League and the Championship will converge more and the current application of the rules is evidence of this. Even the Everton situation, 10 points and all, is atempt to maintain the status quo.We could even see like relegation the application if the PSR rules being also part of the season on a regular bases.

Paul Birmingham
83 Posted 15/01/2024 at 11:52:51
This raises more questions again about the EPL.
What do they sta d for snd how can a process be fair and compliant when they make up thd rules and pass a sentence on a club(s), after the season completes?

They act as if they're without blemish, a higher ordained authority, anointed by the King and God.

Seriously I hope Evertons legal team, fight and win, and take these EPL, frauds to pieces, and Everton can sue them for non compliance and prejudice.

Dave Lynch
84 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:04:37
Our 10 point deduction was not to preserve the big 6 status quo.
We where/are no threat to them.

It was to stave off the threatened independent body, the EPL wants to be a self governing body that is run like a secret society, that can of course be considered a status quo.

I have the feeling this super league is dead in the water, as the Saudi league is being played in empty stadiums.

We are the sacrificial lambs, of that there is no doubt.

Brian Williams
85 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:06:34
I wouldn't be surprised if the premier league, as someone earlier suggested (may or may not be this thread) and reduced the ten points penalty to six only AFTER punishing us again with another six point penalty if we're found guilty today.

Especially if Forest are found guilty and have six points deducted.

That way they get us twice but have the appearance of being fair minded by reducing the initial punishment and both punishments being the same as Forest's.

All ifs, buts and guesswork mind!

If that was to happen I'd still bet on us to survive.

Dave Lynch
86 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:14:03
So what time is a verdict expected?
Brian Williams
87 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:15:04
How about this utter shite from "Everton News" via NewsNow.

After all, for just a £19m overspend they were handed a brutal ten-point deduction last time out, which fortunately they managed to overturn.

They might not be so lucky this time around, with reports having emerged suggesting they could be in serious danger of breaching yet again.

Barry Hesketh
88 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:15:46
Dave @86,

I would imagine it will come late in the day. I think the last announcement of this type was made around 5pm UK time.

Mike Owen
89 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:27:15
If this report is correct, then who leaked it?

Going back to last year, who leaked the report that we were facing a points deduction?

Is this the Premier League NOT following the due process and protocol it makes itself out to be so precious about?

Paul Hewitt
90 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:28:26
Brian @87. Maybe they know something we don't.😁
Ian Edwards
91 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:29:01
The decision to dock 10 pts in November was announced at lunch time.
Brian Williams
92 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:29:56
I wish mate, I wish!
Jim Wilson
93 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:35:54
Christine @ 79 - Spot on

I happen to think it is deliberate vindictiveness.

And in doing what the Premier League have done they have made it almost impossible for Moshiri to sell the club, with anyone who was interested waiting for what now looks like an inevitable administration before trying to buy Everton on the cheap.

What the Premier League have done can't be right. Everyone with a logical mind knows a points deduction was outrageous and instead of helping Everton the Premier League has now steered Everton into financial trouble and should have now lost the right to govern the league.

Bill Gall
94 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:43:24
I prefer to wait and see what, if any punishment is given.

The sad thing about this whole mess is the only people being punished are the loyal fans, who had no control over the way the Board and Management got the club into.

The other people who are responsible are the FA themselves for allowing the primary culprits like Chelsea and others with the same wealth to come in and just outspend the average Premier league clubs for silverware. Greed breeds Greed. and the FA are the Greediest.

The FA are now trying to solve a mess that they created by punishing the more vulnerable instead of the people who are at fault, and that is themselves, for creating an unfair playing advantage

Brendan McLaughlin
95 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:46:44
A decision may not come today.

It took the PL three weeks to make the announcement the last time they referred us for breaching PSR even though it was supposed to have happened within 14 days.

Danny O’Neill
96 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:46:48
The Department of Culture Media and Sport news to step in and take of regulating Football. That seems the logical body.

Whatever happens to us, we can't allow this self licking ice cream to govern and regulate itself like a self licking ice cream.

Ray Robinson
97 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:47:20
I know that Everton and Nottingham Forest are constantly mentioned in relation to possible breaches of PSR, but can somebody explain to me how Chelsea, with their billion pounds worth of incoming transfers over the last 3 windows, are not implicated?

I know they sold a lot of players, some “home-grown” and I'm aware that they exploited the extended amortisation period before that loophole was closed, but how on earth have they stayed within the £105m limit over the last three years, especially with no European income last season?

Our inept management notwithstanding, what sort of system is it that can punish a team that has a negative transfer spend over the last two seasons? Are the lower placed teams expected to have regular fire sales of their best assets so that the rich clubs can stuff their benches with even more top quality players?

The system is anticompetitive and stinks of self-interest.

Anthony Hawkins
98 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:56:08
If the Department of Culture Media and Sport news step in I half expect them to say 'historic decisions are outside of [their] remit'. Such will be our luck.
Phil Greenough
99 Posted 15/01/2024 at 12:57:09
Thanks for your explanation, Brian.

If Everton were asking the Premier League for guidance about buying players and staying within their rules, surely it was incumbent upon the Premier League to ensure any player purchases were appropriate?

Michael Kenrick
100 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:01:16

While you might assume that woud be the case, it's not really what comes out of the Commission findings.

They said something like "While the Premier League were informed of new purchases and considered them risky, the club went ahead anyway."

I'll look for the real text…

Graeme Dodd
101 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:02:38
Ray @ 97
One of the fiddles Chelsea have worked in by signing players on extremely long contracts - 8 yrs in some instances. This means they amortise (spread) the transfer cost over a longer time. I believe EPL have since changed the rules to limit the maximum amortisation period to 5 years however it doesn't affect deals that are already done. funny that.

Overall I agree with some of the comments above -
Surely you can't be found guilty twice in the same year for what is an offence you can only commit once a year!

Ray Jacques
102 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:11:47
Brian at 87, I think you may have a point there.

They know the 10 points is a joke of a penalty but they don't want to lose face. Hence, they do us again and say that there is no additional punishment, but the original 10 point deduction stands, or they throw on another 2 and purvey the opinion that we should be grateful it is'nt 20 points.

Either way it seems that the punishments are made up as they go along.

The shite mismanagement of the once good ship EFC over the past 15 or so years, means that I have no faith in the board or owner and the punishment is a by product of their useless performance, I just feel for my grandaughter who loves the blues but gets a kick in the teeth for giving her support. Dont even feel for the players, they will be paid and piss off if we are relegated.

Of course the premier league don't give a flying toss about her or fellow supporters.

I actually hate football in the modern age. I turned the Utd game off yesterday after 5 minutes due to the hysterical screaming of the commentator, I just couldnt be arsed.

I often think is it because I am a bitter old man living in the past through blue tinted glasses, but then I reflect for a few minutes and think no, its because the game has been taken away from us and is a greedy, corrupt entity.

Just look at VAR and what a shambles it is, or the hand ball rules, or offside, or the lack of being able to tackle. Its ruined. Within 10 years it will be illegal to head the ball.

Anyway rant over, think I covered all bases there!

Michael Kenrick
103 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:21:39

Here is the relevant clauses §102 & 103 from the Commission findings:

The 13 August 2021 agreement imposed certain obligations on Everton, one of which was to obtain the Premier League's approval of purchases of new players. The Premier League approved each such request but when doing so cautioned Everton that it (the Premier League) was not managing Everton's finances, and that it was for Everton to ensure that it complied with the PSR. The Premier League asserts that for Everton to have persisted in player purchases in the face of such plain warnings was recklessness that constitutes an aggravating factor.

The Commission considers that it was unwise for Everton not to have curtailed player purchases. It was aware of potential PSR difficulties but pressed ahead in the hope that it would make sales of players that would enable it to achieve PSR compliance. Events have proved that to be a poor judgment.

So a nice double-edged sword to the heart of Everton FC. Not only was our open and transparent cooperation thrown back in our face, but our attempts to manage our own finances was already classed by the Premier League as being reckless, used then as an 'aggravating factor' which in their minds justified the egregious 10-point penalty.

Or conversely, our incompetent executives didn't heed the warnings and blundered on regardless. Now happily relieved of their duties and basking in handsome payouts for services to the cause.

Craig Walker
104 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:26:03
Any chance we can commission a TV drama and get Toby Jones to play Andy Burnham? Mr Burnham vs the Premier League.

That's the only way this corruption will get any kind of attention or support outside of the people appalled and affected by its injustice.

Colin Malone
105 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:28:11
It stinks of mafia. Every time there is a var decision. It takes so long because the bookies in Asia get the decision first. If you know what I mean.
It's nothing personal Sonny. Its strictly business.
Dan Parker
106 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:28:12
What about Bournemouth, breached twice on their way to the PL. no points deductions at all, just a fine each time. And now they’re reaping the rewards.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
107 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:28:17
Brian #81 - but if you lost £1m in year 1, £1m in year 2 and £104 in year 3 you get done. Then in year 4 you have to keep losses to under £1m to not get done again and in year 5 keep losses to under £1m to not get done a 3rd time.
Andrew Ellams
108 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:31:19
The sad thing is that this is just the start of it. The crooks running the game will go after clubs one by one until they put 100ft fence up between the ESL six and the rest.

The only funny things is the number of Geordies who think they're on the other side of that fence.

5 years from now PL attendances will be in decline because people will give up on the game.

Brian Williams
109 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:37:47
Phil. Exactly mate. Stinks dunnit.
Tom Bowers
110 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:40:24
Everton are fighting or their lives both on and off the pitch.
We loyal fans can't control anything but we have to hope the results pick up so we are not involved in any more end of season nail-biting.

We are playing better than last season albeit not by much but having not won for four games and not scored in the last three EPL games there is rising concern once again.

Every point will be precious but they have done well against Villa in two games this season and they could easily have won yesterday.

The F.A. is a farce and the VAR system proves that.

Players are continually going over the ball and only getting yellow when it should be red. Many newer referees have no guts.
The TV cameras pick these things up and yet VAR doesn't. Go figure.

Jerome Shields
111 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:50:11

According to a Chelsea Supporter I know the new owners got a clean slate debt wise.The government were instrumental in the process.

It is a bit like Moshiri taking a hits and walking away with nothing.

James Hughes
112 Posted 15/01/2024 at 13:58:25
Jerome, yes that is true. Abramovitch liquidated the club and all sales went to well somewhere possibly ukraine war fund.
Chelski is gone, long live CheleUSA
Danny O’Neill
113 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:24:51
But their shirt sleeve sponsors are Russian linked right?

Ignored by the grey suits in the Premier Leagues Paddington HQ.

Phil Greenough
114 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:34:00
Thanks for the clarification, Mike.
Kevin Molloy
115 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:34:05
the whole thing is so laughably absurd. How on earth can you have a concept like 'competitive advantage' when the rules discriminate against you if you have a smaller footprint? Literally their rules are, the bigger you are, the more you can spend. How the fuck is that 'fair'?

Even worse, they have brought in FFP supposedly to protect not the competition (as above that's already unfairly rigged) but the clubs. So the PL are saying to us 'we brought in these rules so that you don't get into financial difficulty. Now that you've 'breached' them, we are going to right that wrong by bankrupting you'.

James Marshall
116 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:34:14
I'm reading on X (Twitter) that we're not in breach, that's according to that Esk geezer anyway
Brendan McLaughlin
117 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:36:42
I imagine the PL will release details of any alleged PSR breaches in time to catch the early evening news bulletins.
Barry Hesketh
118 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:46:58
Tony Attwood writing for the Untold Arsenal website, doesn't show much empathy or sympathy towards Everton or Nottingham Forest.

It would be nice to think that supporters of other clubs would examine what the Profit and Sustainability rules mean for most clubs, but in a tribal sport, it's likely that most fans only concern themselves with what affects their own clubs fortunes.

I imagine even those that have said to Evertonians, 'That's a bit harsh mate', or "Ten points is way over the top' deep down are quite happy for our club to be punished, regardless of whether the punishment is deemed harsh or not.

Meanwhile, in the midst of all this, we await the next round of decisions as to whether clubs have broken financial fair play rules.

And here there is a tasty issue sitting on the edge of the menu (as it were). “Everton and Nottingham Forest are expecting to be referred to an independent commission over breaches of the Premier League’s profitability and sustainability regulations,” according to an article in the Athletic.

Now if you have been reading Untold of late you will know that I’ve received a number of emails from Everton supporters in response to my earlier pieces in which I asked for reasons why the conspiracy that is supposed to exist against Everton exists.

I haven’t had any clear evidence, nor any exposition of why there might be a conspiracy against Everton in particular. But I suspect there will be some further accusations coming along soon – although my point will be the same: if there is a conspiracy against Everton, why is that the case? In short, why Everton?

Anyway if there is a points deduction for Nottingham Forest and another one for Everton, that will leave the foot of the league table looking somewhat differently. (Although let me stress, I am just speculating here following a story in the Athletic). And here I am going to take the simple step (without any evidence) to suggest that the deductions would follow the lines of the deductions before.

Of course we are just guessing here – guessing that Manchester City’s points deduction is still years away, that neither Nottingham Forest nor Everton can put up a strong enough legal case to have the ruling of the Premier League Commission overturned and that ten points deduction is now the norm.

According to an article on the Liverpool University site, Everton have said that they spent too much money because of “unforeseen and unprecedented circumstances” including the war in Ukraine which led Everton to breaking their link with Alisher Usmanov and which included losing the naming rights deal for their new stadium.

I suspect the League’s response to that will be one of counting chickens. I’ve never run a business remotely the size of a PL football club, but even running a modest-sized PLC we knew that rule. Don’t expect everything tomorrow to be like today.

Everton also claim that they are penalised because they borrowed from their owner rather than a bank – and that is probably the case. But… and this is important – everyone in the business knows there are restrictions on borrowing from the owner, for very obvious reasons. Everton borrowed from the owner because he wasn’t wanting the rate of interest the bank wanted – so it was a gamble, and it didn’t pay off.

Everton are also said to have used the excuse that they found it difficult to sell players during COVID-19 – and Covid was beyond their control. But then if that argument were allowed it would open the gates to all “unexpected events” as an excuse for breaking the rules. Successful companies have reserves and are cautious, and that approach is what the League are trying to reward.

Are Everton and Forest about to get points deductions?

Christy Ring
119 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:50:16
The premier league”s motto, we are all equal but the top 6 are more equal than others
Dave Lynch
120 Posted 15/01/2024 at 14:56:47
Let's be honest here!

If it was the other lot across the park in our situation we would be whooping with joy.

Any other team and we'd have a modicum of sympathy. So I expect the same from all other clubs fans.

Brendan McLaughlin
121 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:01:31
Paul TE still tweeting we'll be fine.
Barry Hesketh
122 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:03:41
Dave @ 120
Of course you are correct, such is the nature of football fans all over the globe.

Sam Avery has his say on the current plight of Everton in the face of FFP and PSR. Warning: there are a number of naughty words in his video. But his points are correct in the main.

Sam Avery's rant at Everton and Premier League,

Dave Lynch
123 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:07:48
Brendan, he knows about as much as we do about the outcome, which is...fuckall
Jerome Shields
124 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:11:45

It was to preserve the Premier League.Big Club, Big Stadium.They know that the Stadium will be packed, even in the Championship.The preserving of the. Big six is another matter.

Brendan McLaughlin
125 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:15:59
Perhaps I'm clutching at straws Dave #123

But he seems pretty comfortable going against the general tide of opinion which is strongly suggesting we're gonna be found in breach again.

David Cooper
126 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:16:57
After watching the miscarriage of justice of the Post Office scandal, it is clear that powerful institutions can basically do what they want and are backed by the government. So it’s clear that the Premier League are following in the steps of the PO. I have always wondered if somewhere there is a group of powerful individuals who have decided to cripple EFC because they are building a new stadium using Moshiri’s money which is basically Usmanov’s money which links us to Russia and the anti Russian climate because of their war with Ukraine. Seems impossible that such a link could be made but after what is being found out about the relationship that existed between Japan and the UK regarding Fujitsu in turning a blind eye to the inadequacies of their computer program.
Just realized I sound like a rabid conspiracy theorist!
Paul Hewitt
127 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:21:18
Still no news. Hopefully they've forgotten about us.
Christy Ring
128 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:24:02
Going by the Premiership rules the 20 teams in the Premiership are not all equal, 14 teams are discriminated against, and because England is not part of the EU anymore, can we not go European arbitration
Barry Hesketh
129 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:27:51
Reach's Business of Football writer Dave Powell believes Everton are likely to face a charge from the Premier League but has dismissed talk of points deductions.

He said: "It is understood that Everton are likely to face a charge from the Premier League over a breach of Profit and Sustainability Regulations, but any talk of potential points deductions is premature.

"For Everton, everything hinges on the appeal for the breaches that they were hit with last year that resulted in a 10-point penalty. The appeal for the club is based around the severity of the punishment as well as whether or not a compelling case can be made to count the stadium interest costs as allowable deductions, which would be impactful to the PSR position for 2022/23.

"There is hope that Everton can get their points deduction reduced, and while there has already been suggestions around the potential points deduction they could be hit with for another breach, it is something that would be determined by an independent commission, as per the previous.

"Everton’s position will undoubtedly be one of emphasising that they were being punished for 75% of something that they have already been punished for once again. The reason for that is that 2019/20 and 2020/21 (averaged together as one due to COVID) and 2021/22 have already been assessed and punishment handed down.

"Everton are likely to post losses again when their 2022/2023 accounts are published, but after the sale of Anthony Gordon to Newcastle United for a guaranteed £40m, money that can be booked as pure profit, the bulk of any losses will likely be attributed to stadium build costs." Source: Liverpool Echo

Jeff Spiers
130 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:38:09
Dave. You are not a rabid conspiracy theorist. You just want the truth, like the rest of us.
Shane Corcoran
131 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:44:07
Confirmed by Bobble. Fuck me gently.
Kevin Edward
132 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:45:48
Please don’t look for support from other clubs/club fans & bloggers.
They are mostly self-serving and if it was happening to them they’d be squealing and bleating like the cast of Animal Farm.
Basically the top clubs have been allowed, and can continue, to do what they like as they represent ‘the brand’.
Everyone else is there to make up the numbers.
Is EFC still a ‘going concern’ ? Answer : Yes.
So let’s destroy them with points deductions and restrictions to make sure they fall into line.
Bobby Mallon
133 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:48:06
why cant Everton call all 20 clubs to a meeting and call a motion for PSR to be scrapped and allow clubs to spend what they want. I bet they would all agree to it.
Bobby Mallon
134 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:52:36
we could always get in touch with the people who wanted the super league and say we will join
Brian Wilkinson
135 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:55:36
The no news for me is good news, it is looking likely we are within the limit this time.

I say this very cautiously as it would have been leaked by those who cannot hold their own piss and gloated about us in trouble again, the silence gives me a bit of hope they have nothing to report, reporting Everton have spent within their means, is not what the papers and media want to print, that is what I am thinking anyway, I could be wrong.

Ray Robinson
136 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:56:10
Graeme #111, I'm fully aware of the amortisation trick that Chelsea pulled with the 8½-year contracts. I still don't believe that they can be the right side of P&S rules, even with the reduced annual write-downs.

Jerome #111, did this clean slate arrangement allow Chelsea to temporarily ignore P&S Rules? Even with a fresh slate for the new owner, Chelsea are going to have to hold some massive fire sales in the Summer and post some huge profit for 2023-24 to comply going forward.

Anthony Hawkins
137 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:58:55
The stupidity of this process is the change in accounting approach. Based on Everton assuming the interest could be deducted and being told it was not, 2 to 3 months ago, there’s been insufficient time to sell players or amend anything to resolve the issue. That is unless other accounting has been done, including underspend, to mitigate the change. Financial fair play my arse!
Barry Hesketh
138 Posted 15/01/2024 at 15:59:09
The Bobble@ElBobble
Everton are set to be found guilty by the Premier League of breaching profitability and sustainability regulations. The Toffees will now once again be referred to an independent commission 🔵

the esk@theesk
There's a huge difference between being charged with a potential breach & not being compliant. An adjustment to Everton's previous accounts (permitted under IAS) makes us compliant. I will repeat again that we have not breached PSR for the three year period to June 2023
3:55 PM · Jan 15, 2024

Jim Wilson
139 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:00:56
Bobby @ 133 - it is too easy to think of isn't it?
Ian Edwards
140 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:04:09
Barry 138. The Esk needs to give his head a bobble.. I mean a wobble. He is playing with words and starting to look a bit silly.
Soren Moyer
141 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:05:05
Bet your house on @theesk 😉
Paul Tran
142 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:14:00
Regarding Chelsea, their non-turnstile income is far higher. They stockpile young talent, loan them out, and sell at pure profit. Eight year deals were legal until they were recently outlawed. Strikes me that Chelsea's management knows and understands the rules better than ours.
Neil Copeland
143 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:14:58
Sky have just announced that Everton and Forest have been charged
Andrew Ellams
144 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:15:25
So us and Forest have been charged. Nobody in the criminal cartel though
Barry Hesketh
145 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:15:47
Everton have been referred to an independent Premier League commission over a further breach of profit and sustainability rules. Everton are assuring its fans that it will continue to defend its position during its ongoing appeal and any further commission hearing
4:10 PM · Jan 15, 2024
Mark Stanley
146 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:16:00
So the news is out and we've been shafted again.
Rob Jones
147 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:17:05
James Marshall
148 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:17:17
One silver lining (or two) could be that we get a suspended deduction, and Forest get a 10 point deduction.

That would put us up a spot in the table at least

Brent Stephens
149 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:17:39
The Athletic reports us (again) and Forest having been referred to an independent commission covering 2019/20, 20/21, 21/22, 22/23.
James Marshall
150 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:18:49
Surely we can't be docked points twice in the same season anyway? That would cause a fucking riot.
John Chambers
151 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:20:05
Brent I see the comment from the club is apparently highlighting the fact that we have been charged again for years that were included last time. Obviously the defence here is going to be double jeopardy. Would like to know how much we lost last year
Dave Lynch
152 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:20:10
It's all good though...The Esk said we'd be fine.
Andrew Ellams
153 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:21:59
So Alan Myers just deleted his tweet. Was he misinformed?
Brent Stephens
154 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:22:03
John #151 - exactly - double jeopardy.
Rob Jones
155 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:22:18
James, they can and they will. The fuckers want us gone, and they won't stop until they get what they want.
Andrew Ellams
156 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:24:14
It's not double jeopardy because it's not the same charge.
Barry Hesketh
157 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:25:49
It must have been known by the club last week that we would be up before a new commission, hence the hiring of that top Lawyer guy.

We can indeed, suffer two possible points deductions this season, as that's why we had to submit our latest accounts by December 31st 2023.

As for the previous referral to the commission, we will have to wait for a date to be announced for the hearing, then the appeals process, so we might end the season in one position, but after every ball has been kicked find out our fate as to which division we will kick-off for the last season at Goodison.

Not a great deal we can do about this, but how will it affect 777 partners stance, and how much damage will the mere referral to the commission have on the future of the club, that's if the club can avoid administration in the meantime?

James Marshall
158 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:26:25
Everton statement:

Everton Football Club acknowledges the Premier League’s decision to refer a breach of Profit & Sustainability rules (PSR) for the assessment period ending with the 2022/23 season to an independent Premier League commission. This relates to a period which covers seasons 2019/20, 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23. It therefore includes financial periods (2019/20, 2020/21 and 2021/22) for which the Club has already received a 10-point sanction. The Club is currently appealing that sanction. The Premier League does not have guidelines which prevent a Club being sanctioned for alleged breaches in financial periods which have already been subject to punishment, unlike other governing bodies, including the EFL. As a result - and because of the Premier League’s new commitment to deal with such matters “in-season” - the Club is in a position where it has had no option but to submit a PSR calculation which remains subject to change, pending the outcome of the appeal. The Club must now defend another Premier League complaint which includes the very same financial periods for which it has already been sanctioned, before that appeal has even been heard. The Club takes the view that this results from a clear deficiency in the Premier League’s rules. Everton can assure its fans that it will continue to defend its position during the ongoing appeal and, should it be required to do so, at any future commission – and that the impact on supporters will be reflected as part of that process.

Brent Stephens
159 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:27:31
Surely its double jeopardy because its the same offence.
Rick Johnson
160 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:27:54
As the Premier League is no longer a proper competition with members operating on an equal footing, for what it’s worth, I’ve now cancelled my Sky subscription and will now maybe watch non league footy
It is scandalous
Andrew Ellams
161 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:28:46
Different accounting periods Brent.
Barry Hesketh
162 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:30:08
James Marshall
163 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:30:38
Surely as the statement above from EFC mentions, it IS double jeopardy?

How can we be charged for 2 of the same 3 years? That's a bullshit rule.

John Chambers
164 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:30:38
Andrew it is the same charge, just a slightly different time period. The majority of the time period in the last charge is also in the latest time period
Brent Stephens
165 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:31:09
I meant to say surely double jeopardy because it's the same offence in the same period. We've already been penalised for this very same offence that we are now being charged for again.
Barry Hesketh
166 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:31:58
This Everton statement: as read out by Vinny O'Connor on Sky Sports but I can't find published elsewhere other than from on G.O.T. Forum.
Everton Football Club acknowledges the Premier League’s decision to refer a breach of Profit & Sustainability rules (PSR) for the assessment period ending with the 2022/23 season to an independent Premier League commission. This relates to a period which covers seasons 2019/20, 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23. It therefore includes financial periods (2019/20, 2020/21 and 2021/22) for which the Club has already received a 10-point sanction. The Club is currently appealing that sanction. The Premier League does not have guidelines which prevent a Club being sanctioned for alleged breaches in financial periods which have already been subject to punishment, unlike other governing bodies, including the EFL. As a result - and because of the Premier League’s new commitment to deal with such matters “in-season” - the Club is in a position where it has had no option but to submit a PSR calculation which remains subject to change, pending the outcome of the appeal. The Club must now defend another Premier League complaint which includes the very same financial periods for which it has already been sanctioned, before that appeal has even been heard. The Club takes the view that this results from a clear deficiency in the Premier League’s rules. Everton can assure its fans that it will continue to defend its position during the ongoing appeal and, should it be required to do so, at any future commission – and that the impact on supporters will be reflected as part of that process.
Pete Neilson
167 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:32:56
“The Premier League does not have guidelines which prevent a Club being sanctioned for alleged breaches in financial periods which have already been subject to punishment, unlike other governing bodies, including the EFL. “

Unsurprising really as the guidelines are made up by Richard Masters and his equally inept gang of buffoons. If it wasn’t so serious it’d be laughable how useless the EPL administration is. And yes “corrupt” is the correct term as we’ve been forensically investigated purely in their own self interest in an attempt to avoid a government imposed regulator.

Steve Brown
168 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:33:17
From the Guardian:

Everton, one place and one point above the relegation zone, can be punished again even though the 10-point deduction was for three of the four years that have resulted in the latest charge. The club has raised concerns about double jeopardy with the Premier League but been informed that is a matter for the independent commission that will consider the latest charge. Unlike the EFL, the Premier League has no guidelines for capping losses in years that have already been subject to a sanction.

Steve Brown
169 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:34:31
This is headed to the law courts to settle now. Evertn have nothing to lose in doing so.
Dave Williams
170 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:35:27
Double jeapardy certainly is apparent but what I want to know is who at the club was in charge of monitoring our situation. It should normally be the Finance Director reporting to the CEO. In a business of this size monthly management accounts would be prepared and compared against the pre- set budget. Any significant deviation from budget would be analysed and discussed with any necessary adjustments made to keep on track.
With the significance of FFP someone had to have a grip of the figures. The club says it worked closely with the PL and if so how are we in breach? If we misinterpreted figures or misrepresented some to the PL then who was responsible?
It sounds like I’m looking for a scapegoat but I just cannot understand why 18 clubs managed to avoid FFP breaches this time and 19 avoided them last time and yet Everton ballsed it up??

Seething doesn’t touch the sides !!!!

Phil Greenough
171 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:47:46
Just received this from my mate, it's from the Transfermarkt.co.uk website

This isn't official until the PL announce it on their site - hopefully round 4pm - so don't tweet please. But for guidance and help for tomorrow's column

We’ve been referred to an independent commission – again – for another breach of the Premier League’s Profit and Sustainability regulations (PSR).

This latest breach covers the three seasons 2020/21, 2021/22 and 2022/23 – even though we are currently appealing the 10-point sanction imposed for a breach which already covers two of those three seasons – 2018/19, 2019/20, 2020/21 and 2021/22 (they rolled four seasons into three because of Covid).
So we’ve already been punished for 75% of the period covered by the new referral. Double jeopardy if you like.
We have raised this double jeopardy issue with the PL but they have showed no desire to address it, simply saying it’s for an ‘independent’ commission to resolve.
This new commission can’t meet until our appeal against the 10 points has been concluded – because the outcome of that could influence the decision of the new commission.
The PL appears to accept the current PSR rules are flawed – because they’re changing them in August! Not before time because the current rules haven’t changed to take inflation, higher transfer fees, global issues etc into account since 2014.
Football academic Kieran Maguire suggests that if PSR limits had risen in line with football inflation since then the £105m cumulative losses allowed would now be £218m!!
Under the new PSR rules being introduced EFC accounts would be compliant and not referred to another commission!
The EFL do things differently. They cap a club’s losses for the year of a breach as an average over the three years. If PL did the same then EFC would not have been referred this season. So the PL model is a vicious circle that once you’re in it’s very, very difficult to escape from.
We’re clearly being punished for building a stadium – given that in a five year net spend transfer table only Luton and Brighton (who sold Moses Caicedo to Chelsea for £115m) have a healthier net spend than us.
Make sense of that if you can!!!

Dave Cashen
172 Posted 15/01/2024 at 16:50:44
Steve 169

Agreed. I don't see how it can go any other way

Pete Neilson
173 Posted 15/01/2024 at 17:04:52
I agree with the comments on using the legal system now and refusing any further cooperation with the EPL. Draw this out as Man City have. Screw the EPL and their random timescales. The downside being that in our case they’d almost certainly then deduct further points. It’s a complete shambles.

The EPL has shown it’s inept and will have its governance responsibilities taken off it by the government approved regulator. At which point I wouldn’t be surprised that the slate is wiped clean and City and Chelsea get away scot-free.

Kim Vivian
174 Posted 15/01/2024 at 17:40:30
I'm getting quite bogged down in my own mind with all this and reference to the stadium costs, transfers etc etc, but I think (as I understand it, correctly or wrongly) that stadium costs are not taken into account, notwithstanding dodgy creative accounting practises relating to interest on loans for, or not for, the build costs.

I think transfer dealings have been well within expected guidelines but, if our wages alone are accounting for about 90% of turnover (not gross profit) it's clearly unsustainable.

And "wages" of course, don't just cover players – they cover the entire entourage employed by Everton from Sean Dyche, right through all training, medical and admin staff down to the tea lady.

I don't know how we're going to wriggle out of all this but I am very much of a mind that we will end up with a 12-point sanction overall – but still survive to fight another day in the Premier League… for better or worse.

I, like one of the Abrahams who I think posted earlier somewhere, would be quite happy to enjoy supporting Everton in a lower league, so long as we could stay in business, if it actually came to that.

Playing in the Premier League really is a poisoned chalice these days..

Soren Moyer
175 Posted 15/01/2024 at 19:28:59
Interesting tweet from Steve Rotheram, Mayor of Liverpool, after today's shenanigans:

"The Premier League's announcement today means that Everton Football Club potentially face being penalised twice within the same season for alleged breaches covering the same< period. In short, the club is facing double jeopardy.

I have supported Everton in their appeal so far because I have grave concerns about the transparency of the process and the severity of the penalty being applied. The punishment does not fit the crime.

It is not about one club but ensuring that our game is open and fair in its treatment of all clubs. It is difficult to see how anybody can have any confidence in a process as opaque as this.

Unlike the EFL or other sporting leagues around the world, the Premier League has not published a framework for sanctions. Until that is rectified the fairness and transparency of the whole process will be called into question."

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