Dyche: Derby triumph was ‘one for the people’

How this team could go 4 months without winning a League then win 3/4 with a 6-0 defeat thrown in for good measure, just shows you how amazing football really is.

Dyche deserves criticism for that awful run (and the continued selection of Young) but he certainly deserves praise too, especially for last night.

I'm no fan but credit where it's due, and a big well done to everyone involved last night.

The Owner has left the building, board departed, players sold, no investment in a weak squad, our debt position exposed, 2 PSR charges and 1 appeals commissions completed (1 pending), 8 points deducted, takeover in limbo, administration looming if relegated. But he has led us to relative safety with 4 games left.

Has a manager ever taken a job under such circumstances and done better? Love or hate him in terms of management style or footballing tactics, he was the right manager at the right club at the right time.

Like many, I liked Dyche 1 up to mid-December and Dyche 2 from that point to 2 weeks ago has frustrated me. But he deserves credit where it is due.

Evertonians have done more to try to keep the club on track than those who run it.

These questions need asking and answering.

I have found Dyche very frustrating but credit to him for what he has achieved. Frustrating but it's worked. Well done, that man!

Your wardrobe has to change permanently to reflect the new you. No more suits and ties. Oh no. Only tracksuits from now on, so get yourself down to JD Sports and get kitted out, there's a good chap. You know it makes sense.

Oh by the way. Well done. That should bugger the RS for the title and almost ensure our safety.

nb: There are other sportswear retailers other than JD Sports to choose from.

Our Premier League status is now all but assured. Mathematically, Luton could finish on 37 points and Burnley on 35 points but I can't see that happening.

If we beat Luton on 3 May, that's our status guaranteed. Equally, the team still has a job to do.

Let's have performances like that until the end of the season and we could win all four games – what a finish that would be! 🥳💙

41 points from 34 games with this squad is a decent return. He will always keep his sides honest.

However, this relegation fight will turn into Groundhog Day and, sooner or later, we'll go down unless there is a fundamental change in the operating model of the club.

And I'm not sure Dyche is the man to be part of that change.

The midfield was behind the eight-ball most of the time but stuck to their guns admirably. It proves that without goals possession means diddly.

We need 4 points from four games and the Brentford game will be tough but they are playing better. Having said that, they are safe and have little to play for.

I think now many naysayers will now admit Pickford is just a tremendous keeper.

We only need Luton to lose a game and us draw to remain safe - unless we take some absolute hammerings.

Yes, that's 4 points variation but it's not all incumbent on our results.

I'm no expert but I'm not sure if Dyche is the right man. He's shown his stubbornness with persisting with Young and Calvert-Lewin when off form, he won't make substitutions at the right time either.

With quite a few players out of contract, I hope Thelwell is looking at the lower leagues for some workhorses who would be chomping at the bit to play in the Premier League.

Moyes had a room full of players he was after – has Thelwell got the same sort of thing? Can he get good quality lower league or European etc players in to fit?

All remains to be seen given we haven't a pot to piss in as yet.

I am not a big fan fan of Dyche but what he has achieved is nothing short of amazing.

We will still have nothing to spend this summer either so we will endure more dire football next season as well.

[TW is doing its usual now where, 10 seconds after you type, the words appear… ]

And the possibility (probability) of a further points reduction re the new stadium interest issue. If we get rid of Dyche, that will cost us again. I can't see us attracting any big name in the circumstances. All-in-all, it looks like being Dyche to the end of his contract.

Wow – still no credit to Dyche in the circumstances. Dyche, like all managers, is not perfect by any stretch – but you can't surely ignore that he inherited perennial relegation strugglers, the financial mess, the points deductions etc.

This would have absolutely broken most clubs and it's astonishing that we are now almost certainly safe with 4 games to go, despite being hit with an 8-point deduction.

I think you are missing the point if you think our situation is down to, say, the timing of subbing Calvert-Lewin for Beto in a few games – or picking Godfrey ahead of Coleman at right-back.

I think the last two wins – especially that great one against the RS – were more down to the players' embarrassing defeat to Chelsea –there was no need to play like that and get hammered.

Dyche wants the praise when we win but blames everyone else when we lose – can't have that!!

Go and give ya head a wobble, fella.

I have never heard Dyche blame anybody for a loss or take the credit for a victory.

Hate on Dyche if you want to, but don't make stuff up to justify it.

Rubbish that, mate, sorry.

Some managers may bask in the limelight but not our one!

Who else is getting this level of performance from this squad? How are improving the squad, short-term, with no money, little-to-no leeway on PSR?

How are we improving the squad if we're forced to spend what precious little money and leeway we have on jettisoning a manager (and his staff) who's done more with this squad than his two immediate predecessors, with a worse squad?

Ridiculous.

I think all else being equal, all other difficult peripheral factors the same, one tends to question where any of this level of performance has been or was during the long, turgid record-breaking run of no wins; much of it against lesser opposition and at home.

When we have little to no options as you say, then training, tactics and team spirit are all we have. We saw it last night and we saw the sequence of four wins.

I think it's fair for some to ask whether it's been a little rarer than it perhaps should've been. Takes nothing away from last night.

I said last August, staying a Premier League club come 1 June is success. If this happens, job done. Expectations and reality can be a problem.

Entering the new stadium with a Premier League flag flying is a must! Dyche's job will get tougher next season. We must stick together and get behind our manager.

"Hit the road, Klopp, you ain't coming back, no more, no more, no more, no more, you lost the title, again at Everton,"

UTFTs!

I will, go back and look at the fixture list during that run. Where were the gimmies?

Are we going to put them in the trophy room then? There must be room!

On another matter – Green Day – they any good?

The fans were awesome. Above beyond and another level. Truly spectacular. Everton almost have no right to a packed stadium of love. But they do. We are in a truly bleak place brought about by a nasty self-centred deadman.

Hopefully last night has gone someway to exorcising a tiny slither of his curse, but there is still a huge mountain of suffering to tunnel through before any light can penetrate and we can maybe stand up again.

Green Day, you know it, Mark :-)

I get his point but to me it's more symptomatic of just not being good enough it's akin to asking a right footed player to be as effective just using his left foot - it doesn't always work.

Ditto Dyche, he plays a certain way because that's the strong suit of what he has. It won't always work but the stars were in alignment last night with the RS in the doldrums and us having a free hit.

None of that detracts from the result; it just means perspective shows this as a once-in-a-blue-moon event given the background circus of the club.

I think Mike is referring to this from Dyche:

“After Monday I said to them: ‘Is it that time of year again when you just want an easy life where you get a new manager in, you get a new manager bounce and everyone says hurrah?' I said: ‘Lads, I'm not that guy. I'm staying. I'm fighting.' If you want that to happen, you help yourselves."

How would you interpret this statement? It sounds to me like he is saying to the players that they've thrown the towel in and are waiting for him to get sacked based on results, then they'll put in an effort for the new boss.

Doesn't that constitute "blaming" them for the 6-0 loss?

So far, Dyche has done his level best with the players he's got. Those players have shown in the last two matches what they are capable of. Had they put in the same effort in previous matches, the 8-point docking (although angering many) wouldn't have made much difference?

We went on a winning streak after the initial docking then fell away. Hopefully after two great wins, we can win the remaining four matches.

What frustrated a lot of fans with Dyche was picking Young even when playing shite – Calvert-Lewin who was misfiring (Beto was almost the answer, as was Dobbin).

Chermiti hasn't been given much of a chance, while Dyche has almost refused to sub players not performing. If he stays on, are we expecting much of the same?

With a total of 21 players overall who will be retained – who deserves it given their huge wages and ages?

Like I said, are there any lower league or overseas players looking for a move to play for us and hungry for success that won't take us over PSR again?

Beto has missed sitter after sitter this season, and even in recent games (the chance from 3yards against Chelsea springs to mind).

Chermiti is still learning the game, and doesn't bring anything like what Calvert-Lewin brings in terms of a focal point and aerial presence.

As for the repeated use of Young, I have no answer here, other than that Dyche doesn't seem to rate Patterson, and the only other alternative was a then completely out-of-sorts Godfrey playing out of position.

What you describe as stubbornness is very much a response to a very limited, small squad. I don't think anybody envisioned Young playing the games he has this season. But Patterson has not always impressed when given chances, Coleman has been injured a lot this season, and Dyche (rightly or wrongly) values experience.

Dyche has done a lot more right than wrong this season, and I find it incredible that we're yet again having this conversation the day after we've won the derby. To the point where I wonder if some (not you) would have been happier for us to lose, if only because it would have reinforced their beliefs and allowed them to say "I told you so", which probably isn't that far around the corner.

Look at Villa – they were below us when the nettle licker was there. The trick – and Klopp has done it best given the absolutely overrated garbage they have turning out for them – is getting them to do simple things well, week-in & week-out.

Having a debate on Dyche now isn't the right time. The man's worked fecking miracles this season with all the shite flying around. I've said it before, he deserves a medal. Fucking good on you, Sean Dyche.

Let's hope if he is retained that he doesn't turn us into Burnley Mk 2. Fingers crossed we can have a decent end to this season, everything is sorted for next and we are off to a flier! 💙

I didn't catch the first 20 minutes but, when I started watching, the main difference I noticed was that the team moved the ball much quicker than they had done recently.

In addition, they did so with less fear as they could see how hard everyone was working and how they were backing each other up if they lost the ball.

On the subject of Dyche, he's okay. Not as good as Ancelloti, but better than Benitez or Allardyce. Is he the right man to take us forward? We'll see.

I think he works hard and has a pretty good understanding of football. Replacing him isn't really the priority for me. Improving the squad is the key.

But, if he's been that frank and honest, then whilst some people will say that he's blaming his players, doesn't their response prove that he was 100% correct?

And this will hopefully go a long way in helping bring one of life's biggest commodities into the changing rooms. It's always about trust, because trust is everything. I'm proud of that statement from Dyche. 👏👏

All managers make hit-or-miss decisions, even the ones at the elite clubs. Those with the big squads comprised of top talents are largely protected by the quality of their players. They lose fewer matches by virtue of the comparative strength of their squads. The forensic scrutiny of their decisions usually only comes when they lose to the few clubs at the same level.

Dyche has had no such luxury. More often than not, we are facing teams with bigger and better squads stuffed with top class talents. Even teams in lower mid-table have more options on the bench than we do. Unsurprisingly our players are rarely able to coast to a comfortable win. Every point gained requires a 100% intensity for 90+10 minutes.

For a team like ours, grinding out results is the name of the game. Being able to manage a way out of the inevitable runs of poor form, injury crises and poor results is the key requirement for a manager at our level. In his 15 months in charge, Sean Dyche has amply demonstrated his ability in that regard.

Two things can be true. He can blame his players and it can be an effective motivator for them.

I think it is completely fair to ask where this level of performance has been. When you go through barren stretches, with the spectre of relegation looming in the dark abyss, you simply have to ask those questions at the time. There's really no getting around it.

Patience is however a virtue. And if one exhibits patience and then looks at the entirety of the picture, I don't see any other outlook other than being very happy with Sean Dyche.

After two straight seasons of near death, Dyche saved us from relegation last season arguably, and now has us on 41 points after 34 games. In any other season, he's taken a relegation-threatened team two seasons running to comfortable safety with 4 games to spare. With the financial state of the club, that's stupendous. I just don't see any other way of viewing it.

But anyone asking, "Where's that performance been?" Ya, if you're human, it's fair to ask the question!

If you are seriously suggesting Dyche should be selecting either Beto or Dobbin ahead of Calvert-Lewin, I have a bridge for sale.

Earlier in the season before the awful slump we were creating seven gilt-edged chances per game. Dyche said he didn't know why they weren't going in and didn't know what more they could do. We all agreed. How could we have not scored from all those chances.

It's a mystery of the game. For what it's worth, I hope we lose to Arsenal if it prevents Liverpool or Man City winning the Premier League.

I didn't know Dyche had made such a statement but it has given me a lot of strength if I'm being honest, especially when you see the response of his players, who have just shown everyone that actions speak much louder than words.

I can't wait to shake his hand when I see Dyche now, and tell him the kid I once knew has definitely turned into a man.

If he didn't understand what the derby means, he does now.

But despite everything going on around him, he is keeping those players focussed on what they can impact.

Onto Brentford.

He doesn't like the plaudits and gives us a polite clap from the dugout before heading off, probably to focus on the next match.

It is right for Dyche to challenge them on whether they are once again downing tools on a manager so he gets sacked. That has been their modus operandi since 2016.

Cowardly senior professionals with no standards phoning in their performances when the going gets tough, all the while enriching themselves at the club's expense. They have been fortunate as the target of fan's frustrations has been targeted - lord knows why - on the young players trying to build a professional career in this annual shitshow.

Let's just enjoy a wonderful result and night for the fans. Post-mortems can start at the end of the season when fundamental change at all levels of the club will need to start.

Without the points deduction we would have been safe ages ago, the Forest game was ultimately season defining. We win we are practically safe.

We went into the derby confident, it was a free hit, you could tell how the players played with more freedom, they tried things etc.

If we'd have not been dragged into this relegation fight with 10 points off then 6 then 8 we'd have been playing with more confidence. Dyche alluded to the style of play a while back in one of his interviews, it was safety first players were nervous, fans were nervous.

At the derby it felt different, the fans were up for it from the start so where the players.

I'm just glad the Internet wasn't around in the 80s. I wonder if Kendall would have been hounded out before 1984, some people wanted him gone, in those days they only had painted sheets and paint on garage doors, the pressure from the Internet might have seen our greatest spell wiped from existence.

What other manager would have achieved what he has with the shitshow going on around him?

Remember that apparent golden era under Ancelotti? James, Richarlison, a fit Calvert-Lewin. We finished 10th and the manager said he wasn't a magician.

If Dyche said what he apparently said to the players, he was spot on. Many of us have said the same in the last few years. Many of us share those suspicions. Many of us have wanted a manager to come in and call them out, test them, challenge them.

No goalscorers, no pace, no apparent directors or club leadership, no money, Premier League dumping on us, a takeover taking forever. I'd give him manager of the year. And I'm not reacting to the other night, I'm judging what I've seen since he's been here.

"Won't take us to 'the next level' '' I'd argue he already has.

You'll get your wish when we get taken over. They'll bring in a mutterer with an impressive PowerPoint slide deck and an absence of man-management.

Yet another piece of the mismanagement jigsaw coming together. Seems he got on well with Kenwright, although to be honest I would not be surprised it dear old Uncle Bill led him up the garden path.

Interesting though...

An absolute phoney, in a very long line of people who have got rich at Everton, even though they appear to have been very mediocre at their jobs.

Need some astute businessmen experienced in sports management and long term planning, not short term profits.

Clean sweep needed.. new owner, new vision, new management and stable vision.

Digne going I understood; he had been a good player for us but hadn't played well for over the last 12 months he was here and we made a profit selling him which was what Benitez was brought in for.

Two full -acks were brought in with some of the fee from Digne's transfer but up to now nobody has put their hands up to say they bought him, although the Rangers chairman said it was a lovely experience implementing the deal with Everton's Chairman who negotiated the transfer.

That's not having a go at Patterson who I think can still be a success at Everton.

Didn't make sense that, unless he was just checking that everything was going to be okay and Benitez wasn't going to start interfering with the embedded nepotism.

Just for clarity, I wasn't criticizing Dyche for what he said, I was just giving evidence that Mike Hayes hadn't made it up.

Personally, I was quite pleased with what he said even before the RS game as it was true just as it was when Lampard said they had no bollocks.

The slightly frustrating thing though is that we can't even now say "they've seen off seven managers", Steve, because some of them who did, eg, Holgate, Davies, and basically Keane with him being on the bench are out of the equation.

But we've added new people with similarly weak mindsets and attitudes such as Harrison, McNeil, Onana, etc who simply aren't every week players who give their all.

Even if you don't particularly like your manager, he his going to gain a lot of respect by telling the players, to their faces, that he doesn't think they are doing enough and questioning them for getting rid of however many managers, before telling them he doesn't want to be their next victim.

If the players didn't like him then they wouldn't have turned in the last two displays, imo, with my own feelings being that the pressure of the points deduction, had simply taken too much out of a very, very, limited in numbers, extremely small squad.

Some people's idea of commitment is doing what they have to do without the need to extend themselves because they are going through the motions.

Players with commitment want to excel, they care enough to put the hard yards in every time they step on a pitch.

But I ask this. Every player in a team knows exactly who is committed or not. They see those who pull out of a tackle by slowing down enough to make it less obvious, by not picking up a man going past them, by not making it happen, by just looking as though they are trying.

These are the deadliest people in any team, but the man who never calls them out is to blame for letting it happen.

Let me tell you that this golden rule is one I have drilled into management for years, the same principles apply. If you can't motivate them, then get rid of them because, if you don't, you will fail.

To your last point, I believe fully committed players can improve a team significantly but, to compete at the highest levels, you need skill. 5 committed players will get you into Europe, but only skill and commitment will get you a trophy.

There is a minimal benchmark of effort required of skill and desire, each player is different to his mate, the team makes up for each other's shortfalls in a way that allows an individual's attributes to shine whilst covering for their deficiencies. That's the way a team works.

Don Revie had it wrong, Shankly, Kendall had it right. A blend of brilliance and bread and butter. But all, no matter who had to have commitment.

Lastly, I believe players pick up on the values of the leaders and those around them. If players are treated badly (Niasse?) It sends messages to the players, tit for tat... commitment.

Harrison and McNeil, whom you name, are absolutely not slackers, absolutely give it their all, and are Sean Dyche players for those reasons. The unfortunate reality is, they have limitations. They're industrious, and are capable of moments. But they're not brilliant. It's why they're not playing for a better team.

Onana, whom you also name, will be a much better player next season, playing in a better team. He's shown for Belgium, repeatedly, that he's a decent player. But he does not fit the tactical set-up.

A team full of weak-minded players would have been relegated this season given the external pressures and the penalties we've faced as a club. These players aren't mentally weak. They're just not very good.

Davies and Holgate did not develop as we all hoped for, but the contant churn of managers definitely hindered their development.

It is no coincidence that Bradley, Quansah, Elliott, Jones, Arnold, Clark etc have all slotted seamlessly into the Liverpool first team. Stable footballing structure, every team plays the same style and high standards are set by the manager and the senior players. It is much easier to prosper in this set-up than what the young players at Everton have experienced over the last 7 years.

To be fair to McNeil, his mentality has improved since he joined us. Harrison is just not a very good player, while Onana is passing through.

I think 4-5 players with decent technical skills, speed and athleticism would make a big difference next season Tony, as the squad ran out of gas in December and then narrow defeats killed their confidence.

Factoring in the 8-point deduction, we would be 14th. We also left points on the pitch at Bournemouth (A), Brighton (A), Brighton (H), Fulham (H) and Wolves (H), which is frustrating. I honestly think we are a mid-table squad that could make Top 10 with additions. Not enjoyable to watch, but effective on our day.

We need a right back, left back, right winger, central midfielder, and forward, plus replacements for squad departures. A busy summer with little money for Thelwell.