A Sledgehammer to the Solar Plexus

That Leicester game away takes on huge signifance in my opinion. Against a fellow relegation rival, equally it's important he takes something from the following two games Crystal Palace and Newcastle at home before the next international break. It's a crucial month for Dyche.

Usually I go out on a Sunday, if we’re not playing, yesterday I just couldn’t

Had I not seen it with my own eyes I would not have believed the last 10 minutes

There was a thread a few weeks ago about where we would finish this season. I reckoned it would all be down to how we started. Well what can I say?

Two winnable home games, no points 6 goals shipped. Of course we will lose games but it’s the manner in which we lose. Brighton and Spurs we were crap from kick off. Saturday I thought we were good until the last 10 minutes against a very very poor Bournemouth team

Ndaiye looked knackered so in a way I understood the sub. DCL still looked good so leave alone. Gana and Tim had put a real shift in, get Garner on and a.n.other. Coleman was done so even a fresh young Dixon would have done.
These subs should have been on a lot earlier, 15 minutes to go when we were still comfortable at 2 up.

I suppose with hindsight we can all see what happened and even with no subs we should have seen the game out.

Dyche and the players need to have a good look at themselves.

Get ready for another long and nervous season

I must be missing something here but for me they didn't look tired whereas Coleman and Gueye did, Jesus wept!!!!

Astonishingly bad match management which has pushed me over the line now along with Dyches appalling post match press conference, the biggest cop out of personal responsibility I think I have ever seen from a football manager, ever.

FIrstly, there was absolutely no sign that Bournemouth were going to do what they did, so I guess Dyche was just tinkering to use up minutes and protect important players - so off go Ndiaye and DCL. If we'd have held on, nobody would have commented afterwards.

But, certainly at 2-1, there were clear issues. Gana and Iroegbunam were very obviously slowing down, as was McNeil, and were unable to track the fresh legged Bournemouth team as they had previously. Coleman, despite his incredible levels of fitness, could have done with some protection and maybe subbing. But bringing on Dixon at 2-1 would have been a huge gamble on an inexperienced player - imagine if he'd be on the pitch when we collapsed? Fingers would be pointed at him and at Dyche.

The obvious subs were Garner to come on and Armstrong. Sure, Armstrong has very little experience, but he appears to have tons of energy and confidence and tackles well. Garner could have protected Coleman on the right, Armstrong could have come into midfield. Maybe bring on Doucoure too in midfield and, at 2-1, how about another defender in O'Brien since were getting done on crosses?

Dyche probably did nothing much wrong at first, though he was being complacent for sure, but once Bournemouth scored their first, it was obvious action needed to be taken. Quite why he did nothing is beyond me.

Several players have now come out and held their hands up for their part in this shattering collapse. He really needed to do the same. He is the general. He simply can’t put all of the blame onto his troops. He needed to own his part in what many will see as the worst day of their Evertonian lives. Unfortunately I think that ship has sailed. He's had plenty of time. I can’t see him doing it now

I didn’t think I could feel any more miserable until I read several posters reporting Evertonians were confronting each other in the stands. A house divided cannot stand.

It will not be lost on the players that, while they have held their hands up, he has steadfastly refused to do so.

Instead of holding his hands up, palms showing, to a fan base which is never easily fooled, he has put up his fists.

Sigh...

If he chooses his favourites, then we'll lose both of them and then he'll be toast... and he'll have only himself to blame.

It's high time for our club to be brave and finally employ a progressive Gaffer... for once!

A safety-first Manager is no longer fit for purpose – I believe... football has moved on but we as a club haven't.

Not always correct to blame our manager. Having said that, the subs were questionable!

One minor point, I think we only lost 1-0 away to Oxford United in '86 (when Lineker couldn't find his lucky boots and had to resort to a pair which were too small – they later turned up under his dressing room seat).

That meant we had to hammer Southampton at home (which we did) but hope the RS didn't win at Stamford Bridge (which they did). Even supporting the Blues during the glorious mid-80s had gut-wrenching setbacks. That's Everton.

On Saturday I expected us to concede a sloppy goal, Keane was on the pitch. The manner of the collapse was unsurprising, it started when Doucoure came on. We've seen it too many times before. When Michael Keane is in that defence, Everton are as porous as a new sieve. This is his 8th season at Everton and he must never play for the club again. I've never known a player lose his focus so easily. He simply falls apart after any error.

Dyche isn't the man for Everton and he never was. He'll go at some point soon so there's little point waiting. I made my decision about him before he arrived.

He wouldn't get a job anywhere else in the Premier League, so God only knows why the board thought he was the right man for us.

If only the club had the foresight, vision and decision makers to do the right thing.

Realistically it's still one of the biggest jobs in the game.

No we're not buying off the very top shelf because the job comes with some pretty severe problems but, even at a lower salary, we could find someone showing potential in a European league.

Yet we go with managers like Allardyce, Benitez, Dyche. What kind of a search takes place to arrive at those kind of names? It's a long way beyond pathetic.

Relegation form.

Remember... Dyche is a miracle worker!

I agree with you in that it could easily have been 4 or 5 but that was mainly down to Ndiaye and Calvert-Lewin causing problems for Bournemouth all day.

His substitutions weren't questionable, they were criminal.

The thought of going 5 games without a win or a point on the board cannot be acceptable if we want to remain in the Premier League.

If Sean Dyche doesn't learn anything from how he mismanaged the situation on Saturday, he will be the victim of his own errors.

I will give him a walkover on Saturday’s blunders but he has most definitely got to learn from that horrendous last 9 minutes against a team that were down and out.

What is absolutely worrying long term is the collapse that took place on the pitch!

Where is Danny O'Neill when you need him!

I know you have supported Dyche when many have attacked his methods, so to see you come out and quite rightly blame him for not taking some responsibility in what happened on Saturday speaks volumes. If fans who have supported him are now being critical its very hard to see how he survives unless he does a lot better in our next 2 fixtures. Seamus came out first and said we as players need to look in the mirror after that game, but Dyche has done what he always does and has tried to absolve himself of any blame and said the players need to learn to play till the last minute. No contrition about his substitutions or lack of substitutions, I think the players did give their all but 3 players in particular had been running on empty even before Ndaiye was replaced. Gana, iroebugnam and Seamus had all put a shift in and wer flagging, yet Dyche and his coaches failed to see what many of us were watching. After the game when asked why he removed Ndaiye he said he was getting slower in his recovery, absolute nonsense. Dyche thought the game was won and thought he would give Doucoure who he had dropped some minutes, then compounded his mistake by taking off DCL. Bournemouth had been under pressure because they couldnt handle Ndaiye and DCL was giving their CBs no time to settle. So taking off your 2 most influential attackers gave Bournemouth the green light to be able to throw men forward.

I know Pickford is a top keeper but if he had only taken a step forward from his line he could have prevented the first and third goal.

The likes of Brighton, Brentford, and Crystal Palace all clubs that couldn’t hold a candle to Everton, despite the fact how well they may be run, have all found unknown managers (unknown to me anyway) in the last few years or so and done quite well. By that I mean have been comfortably mid table, without any fear of relegation and in the case of Brighton, reaching Europe.

Kevin Thelwell did a pretty decent job in the summer transfer, now it’s time to turn his attention to finding a new manager. Moshiri couldn’t a toss about us anymore, so I doubt very much he would move his arse and look for a new manager, but if he had just one ounce of interest in the club he owns, he would be making a phone call to Thelwell and also Colin Chong the acting CEO and advising them to take action.

I don’t care what the self apologist Dyche says, though there were players who were flagging but Ndiaye wasn’t one of them. The players who were tiring included the two over 35’s still on the pitch.

I know it’s a big ask supporting EFC but I would just like a decent nights sleep now and again please.

I felt relieved, with our two outstanding new signings and DCL playing so well, that wouldn’t be looking forward to another season of worry and misery after all, but felt irritated that Dyche was clearly settling for 2-0 when we could have easily gone on to win by more.

We already knew that despite two campaigns successfully avoiding relegation, Dyche would never be good enough to manage a club above the level of Burnley, but what unfolded on Saturday was the stuff of nightmares.

Adding to the other dismal negative records under Dyche, we haven’t won an away match in 2024 are yet to win a match after going a goal down.

Lose at Villa and Leicester and 30 years on we would be in Mike Walker territory and approaching a position when the apparently unsackable Dyche really would have to go.

Most worryingly, more than once during his tenure Moshiri had his ear bent by Kenwright and nearly to turned Moyes, a truly dreadful thought.

The man is a dinosaur manager. Too old school. He is paid to know better than that. He could smell it ? Smell what, the shit about to run down back of his Sergio Tacchini tracky bottoms ??

Can we have a petition and a collection. Pay him off and get Potter

Changing the manager during the season usually results in a David Moyes type appointment, i.e. someone to stabilze the ship.

I call at me mate's jewellers shop on a Monday (he's a Blue) and we discuss the weekend's usual defeat. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Gone Away" sign on his door.

This is going to take a while to get over. I wonder how many of the players went out for a meal and an expensive bottle of wine on Saturday night? I doubt many of us did…

Last season, we also lost our first 3 league games and only managed 1 point from the first 5. Without the deductions, we'd have finished comfortably mid-table. It's looking like we'll probably only have 1 point from the first 5 again this season. (I'm not expecting anything against Villa.)

I'll give Dyche and the players the first 10 games or so before drawing any conclusions. It's been a crap start but we're so early in the season, it doesn't make any sense to make significant decisions at this time. I get that people are pissed but it's only one game and no time for knee-jerk reactions.

The last thing imo we need now is yet another change in manager. We've only just managed to clear out the deadwood from the Frankenstein squad Dyche inherited – Keane excepted. A new guy coming in now would start to try and sign his own players and just distrust the squad again.

Patience. Things will get better, especially once Branthwaite is back and the new guys more settled in. I'm trying to stay positive, thinking of how we ran Bournemouth ragged for the first 80-odd minutes.

It's the manner of Saturday's collapse that's certainly frustrating and more frightening to many of us for the future of this season.

This is especially true when you have got players like Michael Keane in the middle of your defence because his organization skills for a central defender playing at any level are absolute zero in my opinion.

Where was the leadership?

Bad news when that kind of thing happens because it shows much about the management and the actual mentality throughout.

But, if selling a Premier League club with a debt heading north of £750M, albeit with a brand new stadium, is difficult should relegation become a possibility, then selling a possible Championship club with that debt would be near impossible.

I couldn't see how anybody would take the massive risk of owning a club with massive debts and no Premier League Sky money to offset some of the costs. Yes, I know that there is a parachute payment for clubs relegated; that is small beer compared to our debt.

Who would have thought that, when Usmanov & Moshiri bought the club, we would be in such a perilous position financially 6 years later?

Being lucky enough to have been nowhere near Goodison on Saturday, I suppose I can be one of the very few people who hasn't been that badly affected by Saturday's capitulation.

I hope that selling the club quickly before relegation comes back into the equation has got to uppermost in Moshiri's thoughts…

We could easily have had 2 or 3 wins in the first 5 games last season. I always thought, with a bit of luck, we would turn it around last season; this season, we are a laughing stock.

Whether it's the manager per se or the mentality of the players, the manner of that defeat rests squarely on the shoulders of the man at the helm.

We have been dog shit under Dyche, survival or no survival. Get Potter and let's play our way to safety under him and not under Dychloplodus.

Potter is no mug, he knows what a football team looks like , for fuck's sake, sack the disc beard now. Knee-jerk reaction? No, it's not a knee-jerk reaction.

I think I'm going to stop posting. This is making me feel worse. I'll come back when he's gone. You won't miss my drivel but I'll say this: Dyche will deliver a 15-point deduction to this club before the season has barely started.

There will be 1 point on the board after 6 starts and you'll be happy with that? He's the man is he to take us to safety? Not again he won't. Bye for now.

It might catch on in your absence, Mark.

And if you don't come back, we'll always have that to remember you by!

And Pete @34:

We have nobody running the club so it's got to be chaotic.

Is there any chance we can knock this meme on the head? It is literally untrue, but often repeated on these pages.

There are people running the club. They may not be running it quite as we like but, if it was in the chaos you suggest, I can't imagine they would be able to complete transactions in the transfer window, or put on a game in the Old Lady for 38,000+ every other week.

I feel like our fan exhaustion rate is getting shorter and shorter as each season goes on. There's only so many times we can dig these lot out of a hole and a few more matches like that and the connection will break for good

Seamus is also being targeted like Baines was at the end of his career. Christ this club is so dysfunctional I could cry.

We have a 2 times relegation manager, that's stuck in his ways. how on earth would it ever work.

He was asked if Branthwaite would be playing in this game? Apparently not. Dyche said he is not quite there yet.

Now being an old cynic, I thought a couple of weeks before the season started Dyche said Branthwaite had a minor groin injury and I thought maybe a deal had been agreed for him to go to Man Utd and they didn't want him to play till the transfer was completed.

But as we know, Everton refused the offers Man Utd made and he stayed at Everton. Yet, even being told weeks ago it was a minor groin strain, he still isn't ready to join in with a friendly.

Dyche hasn't put a timescale on when Branthwaite will be fit to train yet; last week, Branthwaite posted he was hoping to be fit for the next game.

Also no sign of O'Brien although he played in most of the pre-season friendlies and no sign of Lindstrøm. Surely after playing all the friendlies O'Brien must be match-fit?

Personally, as bamboozled as I am about the Bournemouth result, I still maintain that Dyche needs to be given more time, in fact, I think we should really only judge when we have Tarkowski back to full fitness, Branthwaite in the team, and we have a settled right back. The early form of the new recruits is very encouraging so far, despite the poor results.
I do think words need to had with Pickford, and I don’t think it would do any harm to put Begovic in for the Villa game and give Jordan a game rest after his England duties? He was most definitely at fault for at least one, possibly two goals due to his failure to take charge of his six yard box.
I say this, but much will depend upon Dyche’s capacity to restore confidence, unity and determination in the camp before the next game, I believe he will, even though getting any joy at Villa will be a big ask?
Finally, your title and the “sledgehammer” mertaphor, Lyndon; for me, it was more like an ice pick in goolies when that third goal went in.

All written in the stars, such is our way at Everton.

After Saturday I truly believe we are cursed.

Experience is very important, but when the manager prizes it above ability, form and slotting players into their best position then it makes him look stubborn and illogical. Also, Dyche really let himself down in the post match conference by not accepting responsibility as the leader in the dressing room.

The newer players like Tim Iro, Ndiaye and O’Brien look more confident, capable and adaptable, and the Academy players Dixon and Armstrong are definitely ready for the match-day squad. Lindstrom may take a bit longer, and Mangala can soon be integrated into the squad.

If Dyche persists in relying on ‘out of form’ players (Gana, Tarkowski, McNeil, Mykolenko), players out of position (Young at right back, McNeil (again) at No.10) or players who are simply not good enough (Keane, Harrison) then he will lose credibility rapidly.

Ultimately. it may be his caution that finishes him off. That would be a pity as he has earned the right to manage us this season.

One thing I can't get out of my head is where did Mykolenko go for their second goal? Now I like him as a player, and we don't have another option apart from Young at LB (god help us), but I stupidly re-watched the "highlights" when I got home and I can't figure out where he is when they score their second goal. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but we seem to have Keane at LB, McNeil jogging back from left-midfield and Gana just inside him. Did I miss something (quite possible because I had my head in my hands)? Was he injured? Did he stop for a pint on the way back?

Please someone put me out of my misery

Personally, I don't think the occasional "wake up call" does JP any harm? I remember he missed the game at Man City a few seasons ago and stand-in keeper (Olsen) had a blinder, only for JP to return with greater focus, maybe having reflected more upon his own game, I don't know?

Yes, he got his nose well and truly rubbed in it. Depending on Everton's Finch Farm bottling players in such circumstances has been a no-no, right through most of the examples you have given, Lyndon.

It was unbearable on Saturday, and I admire Lyndon's optimism, it makes me fell better reading it.We played well at Villa on one visit recently, so perhaps we can bounce back and restore some credibility as a football team.

On balance, I would prefer bringing in another manager sooner rather than later if this Dyche dross continues. Unfortunately in the modern football model, players, managers, agents etc are all winners, regardless of performance.

How much did our manager and players really want to win last Saturday? Winning is a mentality and they just didn't want it badly enough, but hopefully they don't like looking like chumps either (which they all are at the moment).

I can't imagine that any of them read ToffeeWeb comments, but some leadership on the pitch might be a good idea.

Dyche said Branthwaite had a minor groin injury.

Without going into search mode, I would suggest that what Dyche said was more along the lines of "Branthwaite had a minor operation for a groin injury" [emphasis added] — which I think might be a little more accurate, and might explain his continuing absence as he recovers. But then, if you thought it was all some elaborate lie anyway…

Also, no sign of O'Brien … and no sign of Lindstrøm.

Did you perhaps decide to ignore the subs bench, where there was a big sign of both players amongst Dyche's criminally unused subs?

1986 at Wembley was bad. Tranmere in the cup. 5-0 at Tottenham. Maybe age is playing tricks, but I can't remember a worse one than Saturday.

We like to think it's just us but it's not.

Utd and Liverpool, two of the biggest out there, have both been embarrassed on the biggest stage by Barca and Real Madrid respectively in CL finals. The difference is they regroup and win stuff domestically or at least challenge.

We simply cannot create a winning team no matter what and fans won't have it, I've lost track of friends and relatives who have walked away and who can blame them? Results like this are not uncommon jaw dropping capitulations are what "Everton that" is all about.

Oodles of money is the only answer this idea of steady growth is a fantasy, the patience is not there. Evertonians need to see a trophy, a winning team on an open top bus or the exodus of the faithful will continue.

A new owner wont put up with the continued demise of Everton and Dyche's contribution to it.

Tranmere was one of my most sickening, it was up there with the games I have mentioned already, (I couldn’t believe the gate a few days later for a midweek home league game against Middlesbrough - The unbelievably loyal Evertonians really amaze me at times) but the one I have felt the most in my adult life, was when we had Liverpool on the ropes at Wembley, and Phil Neville, later told us that they had been discussing how Liverpool would throw the kitchen sink at us in the second half.🤦‍♂️

I remember we were beating Newcastle 2-0, with the clock on 90 minutes in a night match at Goodison a few years ago, but even the great pragmatic Carlo Ancelloti, had to settle for a draw that night.

I think Kevin M, makes a lot of very sensible points@58, but a lot of people have already made up their minds and want Dyche, out of our club.

I've yet to hear Dyche accept that he made a cock up as he blames players, refs, assist refs, the cat that ran across the pitch! anything but he'll never " recognise" his blunders. Too big an ego.

I never met Brendan, but I spoke to him yesterday and although he was disappointed and blamed it on the silly substitutions that Sean Dyche made Andy, he sounded just like you whenever you have been to Goodison Pk, and I suggested you should make another pilgrimage together, before the Old Lady shuts forever leaving us only memories of a place I now believe is cursed.

I say it’s cursed but, I still believe that it’s full of Evertonian spirits and knowing how much passion both the living and the dead have always had for Everton Football Club, I’m thinking of holding a seance, (just fuck off Kenwright!) to see if we can win the cup💙

You may well be right that Branthwaites operation was a wee bit more than a minor groin injury. As for me forgetting O,Brien and Lindstrom were on the bench no I didnt, but we all know sometimes we have named 2 goalkeepers to make up the numbers on the bench. So seeing as we have brought both to the club he could hardly not have them on the bench. But Dyche did say about their lack of premier league experience then it seemed he wasn't going to use them. Dyche goes on about how important that fitness is and much store is put on his gaffer days training, yet so far in our 3 league games the opposition have finished the game stronger than we have. So its either he doesnt recognise when players are flagging as Michael Ball said in his Echo column today or his fitness regime is sadly lacking compared to the rest of the Premier league, and so far we haven't played any of last seasons top 4.

Saturday, obviously. The 6-0 mauling by Chelsea last season. Derbies (various), the 86 cup final, was hard to take although the semi-final comes close. The one that sticks out however is the 5-0 drubbing at Goodison. Two other less obvious ones are when we scored first (Ferguson) and went onto lose 4 – 1 to Sheffield Wednesday in the mid-90s. The various humiliations against Arsenal, and being thumped 6-2 by Villa way back.

I’m sure if I done my research, I could go on. Equally, I could remember some of the victories, but I’d be mostly reminiscing about the 80s, as there hasn’t been a lot since!!

Carlisle H. 1975, effectively lost any hope of winning the Championship, was a killer.
Clive Thomas 1977, the Shit descions at Wembley when we should have had penalties v the RS in 1986.

Wimbledon away 1987.

Even being 2-0 up at Spurs and Arsenal a few times in the League in 80s and 90s, we lost.

Wembley curse 89, 90 v Palace Sinod.
Grimsby 85 H, Port Vale away 96

Tranmere, Wigan H.

There's so many.

But it's the hope of success, the craick and banter and stench of Goodison Park, that creates the eternal vision of hope.

One day soon...

UTFTs!

In the modern game with 5 substitutes good in game management has taken on even more importance and at last I am now convinced SD is no longer the man to take us forward, in fact, he looks defeated himself which may have come as a result of so many flirts with relegation over the past few years with us and previously with Burnley.

I believe he is burned out and doesnt have the energy to complete another season. Even Klopp who spent most of his time with top class players at the top of the league (How that hurts) said he no longer had the energy to continue, Pep ahs also said the same during his almighty carreer.

So IMO irrespective of Saturdays catastrophe I believe we should make a change over the break

We all remember the impact Moyes had when he came to the club as a fresh up and coming manager and that is what we need imo.

Another fresh up and coming manager not Moyes although he would steady the ship until we get to Bramley Moore.

As a group of supporters does our collective Elephantile memory serve any real purpose?

I have noticed fans of other clubs, particularly those across the park, on the all too rare occasions when it happens, they shrug off defeats as a bump in the road, in fact they don't even recognise that they have lost, they deflect and deny it as if it never happened.

Meanwhile, we harp on about games that we have lost from as far back as we can remember, or even if we are too young to remember those defeats they remain a part of our collective psyche.

I utterly dislike the term it's 'Everton that' because it's another term for 'losers', as a group of supporters we must somehow rid ourselves of the loser mentality, and obviously in current circumstances that is a very difficult thing to do.

I just hope that when we do arrive at the new Stadium, all of the unnecessary baggage that we now carry, is left behind at Goodison and that a fresh start, with a fresh attitude from everybody connected to the club can take its place.

4,11,16,8,12,5,7,10 and so far zero, his teams have never had a positive goal difference in the opening ten league fixtures, and the best wins total is 4.

Six times his sides have lost at least five of the opening ten games.

That's a pattern if ever there was one, will he be able to improve things in the last 28 games if he remains in charge?

At 85 mins, the sun was shining, people in the stands by me were all smiling, saying this is the best we have played for years. We were being entertained, Ndiaye was playing like a cross between Duncan Mckenzie and Alex Young. It was thrilling, enjoyable. A future was being mapped before our eyes. We got sucked in. We needed this.

10 mins later we were stunned, people either frothing at the mouth, arguing with each other or unable to speak their jaws had dropped so far.

There've been plenty of games that have hurt more. But I struggle to remember any others that happened from nothing, so quickly, so devastatingly.

Utimately it's the hope that kills you

It was glorious at times on Saturday; the fans were singing in the sunshine, the players were popping it around with purpose before the calamitous and inexplicable last ten minutes. I initially felt it was the players' fault before fellow ToffeeWebbers pointed out that some players were 'on their feet'. They should have been replaced. That is on Dyche, no question.

All of that being said, we simply won't make any significant progress until Moshiri is gone. Of course we will win here and there, we might climb to 16th, we might get through another round or two of the Carabao but be out before the tinsel has decked the trees. Then we'll draw City away in the third round of the cup and another year of mediocrity will have passed.

My hope and my dream is for the right owner to step up to the plate and transform this magnificant club and steer us into a football renaissance at BMD.