Column A Sledgehammer to the Solar Plexus We Blues have had to endure some excruciating results over the years, usually a gut punch of reality just when we dared believe things were on the up. Saturday hit as hard as any, perhaps harder for some, but it's early enough to be corrected if the manager can turn things around Lyndon Lloyd 02 September 2024 95comments (last) Depending on your vintage, you’ve experienced your share of shocking results in your time as an Evertonian. For this writer, I was too green to comprehend the shocking nature of the 3-0 defeat to Oxford that cost the Toffees the title in 1986; my baptism was the FA Cup Final that followed, a cruel reversal of fortune that left me in tears but also began the long process of steeling my Blue heart against the almost relentless Merseyside derby pain to come. Through the 1990s, parts of the early 2000s and, of course, through the myriad managerial tenures that followed David Moyes, we Blues have had more false dawns than any fanbase should have to endure and, along the way, some excruciating results, usually a gut punch of reality just when we dared believe things were on the up. The 2009 FA Cup Final that got off to a dream start but ended in agony; Sylvain Distin’s back-pass at Wembley in 2012; the 3-3 draws at Bournemouth and Chelsea under Roberto Martinez; the 3-2 loss to Crystal Palace in 2014 that effectively ended our hopes of qualifying for the Champions League; the self-inflicted 3-2 home defeat to West Ham two years later under the Catalan when, instead of protecting a slender lead when reduced to 10 men, he threw on Oumar Niasse; and more recently, of course, that awful 5-2 home reverse at the hands of Watford when Rafael Benitez’s side surrendered a 2-1 lead and conceded four times in 13 minutes… a turn of events so harrowing, Farhad Moshiri hasn’t been back in the directors box at Goodison Park since. And who could forget that ghastly night at Turf Moor against Dyche's own Burnley, another 3-2 loss from a leading position that felt like a nail in Everton's coffin that season. All were awful in their own right but personally, I don’t think a result has hit me as hard as the 3-2 defeat to Bournemouth. In isolation, even though it made Premier League history in that never before had a team led 2-0 as late as the 87th minute and ended up losing, it wasn’t much worse than some of those mentioned above. But in the context of the last three years of near-constant worry and stress over the possibility of relegation, the 13-match winless run of last season, the 6-0 mauling by Chelsea, the heavy losses with which Everton began this season, and the seemingly transformative performance over 85 or so minutes that preceded the collapse against the Cherries, it felt like a sledgehammer to the solar plexus. Article continues below video content It left you with a hollow feeling of futility; the worst way to go into a two-week hiatus when nothing tangible can be put right. It leaves the Club rooted to the bottom of the table, with back-to-back away games to come after the international break, and it’s conceivable that Everton could be winless in the League by the time an enterprising Crystal Palace come to town at the end of the month. That staggering implosion also set a deeply worrying precedent, not only for future teams traveling to Goodison and how they may prey on the mental and structural weaknesses of Everton’s defence, but it has sowed yet more seeds of doubt in both the players and the supporters that the team is ever going to be able to hold on to a lead, no matter how substantial. We cannot take the risk of another 13-game sequence without a win. Finally, it has further eroded confidence in Sean Dyche who must shoulder as much blame as his players for the way three points were thrown away against Bournemouth for a couple of massively flawed substitutions and galling failure to stop the capituilation as it was unravelling. It made emphatic mockery of his commitment to “defend the V” and was a stark reminder that stopping the cross is fundamental to defending in the Premier league If you’re searching for positives, last season stands as a precedent if you retain faith that the manager can once again rally his players, stabilise their mentality and shore up a defence that has shipped 10 goals in the first three games of the league campaign. Heading into the first pause for internationals a year ago, the Toffees had a solitary point from four games and lost to Arsenal when the season resumed. One of those streaks of similar results that Dyche is becoming known for at Goodison then followed as Everton won eight of their next 12 matches. A similar run would, of course, do wonders for supporter morale but it would require a repeat of some of last season’s biggest results, namely home wins over Newcastle and Chelsea and victories away at Nottingham Forest and West Ham. Then there is the highly anticipated return of Jarrad Branthwaite — it can’t come quickly enough — although there is some unease at the lack of firm updates from Dyche on his progress. Arguably Everton’s most important outfield player, the young centre-half should bring some badly-needed solidity at the back. Finally, of course, there is the attacking display that put the Blues into what should have been an unassailable lead last Saturday, especially that of Tim Iroegbunam, before he visibly tired, and Iliman Ndiaye. The latter is the kind of footballer we Evertonians have been longing to see in our colours; he was a delight to watch and a driving, creative, magical force in the attack. He will, no doubt, be targeted by opposition teams as his legend grows and it will be up to the rest of the team to exploit the resulting space. As we emerge from the wreckage of Saturday and the dust settles, doubts and fear will, naturally, hang heavy in the air. Dyche has been here before and, again, we have to hope he can turn the tide again even if the fear that he might not gnaws at the gut. If there is a further positive angle it’s that it’s early enough in the season that things can be corrected without us being left behind at the bottom. Saturday was a body blow but nothing terminal. However, the margin for further error will quickly narrow and supporter patience will be in short supply. Dyche and his players will need to find answers quickly; the good thing is that enough of the pieces appear to be in place for them to do that. Reader Comments (95) Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer () Andy Mead 1 Posted 02/09/2024 at 07:03:37 For me he is finished. Even at 2 up and playing some of the best football under his management, he just couldn't help himself and went back to his scared,defensive football and key them off the hook. If we were tight at the back maybe you could understand it, but we have been shipping goals meet right and centre. As a player is must be so frustrating you be shackled this way. Surely you want to have a go at the opposition and try to win a game? Certain players know no matter how they play, they play. Why not the new winger from Italy if you had to take Ndiyre off? No, go back to that donkey Doucoure who has stunk the place out all season. 2 week break to get rid right now in afraid. As you say Lyndon,we can't afford another 13,14,game winless run. We are BurnkeyMKII atm, and we all know what happened to them eventually. Derek Thomas 2 Posted 02/09/2024 at 07:06:36 Thanks mate, I'd forgotten about Watford...and, up to a point, Benitez.All the others (going back to the 10-4 spurs game) are just buried, layered like some Jurassic cliff face. Kunal Desai 3 Posted 02/09/2024 at 07:51:11 I was one for sticking with Dyche and him seeing the season out but i'm starting to now think otherwise.That Leicester game away takes on huge signifance in my opinion. Against a fellow relegation rival, equally it's important he takes something from the following two games Crystal Palace and Newcastle at home before the next international break. It's a crucial month for Dyche. John Keating 4 Posted 02/09/2024 at 07:54:45 I have to agree with Lyndon in that of the over 60 odd years of watching them this result has really hit me hard.Usually I go out on a Sunday, if were not playing, yesterday I just couldntHad I not seen it with my own eyes I would not have believed the last 10 minutesThere was a thread a few weeks ago about where we would finish this season. I reckoned it would all be down to how we started. Well what can I say?Two winnable home games, no points 6 goals shipped. Of course we will lose games but its the manner in which we lose. Brighton and Spurs we were crap from kick off. Saturday I thought we were good until the last 10 minutes against a very very poor Bournemouth teamNdaiye looked knackered so in a way I understood the sub. DCL still looked good so leave alone. Gana and Tim had put a real shift in, get Garner on and a.n.other. Coleman was done so even a fresh young Dixon would have done.These subs should have been on a lot earlier, 15 minutes to go when we were still comfortable at 2 up.I suppose with hindsight we can all see what happened and even with no subs we should have seen the game out.Dyche and the players need to have a good look at themselves.Get ready for another long and nervous season Christine Foster 5 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:09:23 Lyndon, 9 points gone and a significant negative goal difference that is effectively worth another point.. Saturday was a blow to the psyche because it was a postscript to an excellent performance, one which, on another day, may have resulted in another manager being shown the door.But those days have gone, his job is safe, for now, but it confirmed to many that no matter what happens in the season to come, he is buying the club time and securing survival in the premiership. At least that's the plan. Whilst injuries to key players have without doubt impacted matchday performances, it's also true to say he has been deaf to a fair amount of common sense in team selection, favoritism and substitutions. This has developed into a stubbornness that Dyche was known for and criticized often by Burnley fans. His methods haven't changed in years, but the Premier league has. Moyes is finding a new job hard to come by, Allardyce too and I can see Dyche heading the same way.Until ownership is sorted, until safety is assured, his job has few caveats but perversely, his inability to change actually threatens ownership.. we go down or look to, the no matter how attractive the stadium is, it will not generate the income a new owner wants..But as soon as a new owner signs the check all bets are off with Dyche and I think he knows it. His criticism of the fans, now the players, is the hallmark of a man walking a tightrope. He is a man who will be dammed is he does the job and dammed even quicker if he doesn't. Such performances including pre season stuff, have done little to reassure anyone of our future, indeed, no doubt have impacted on the players and on prospective signings. Saturday showed for the first time this season, the good and bad of the players, but also Sean Dyche. He needs to stop apportioning public blame and realize his own performance s just not good enough. Mark Murphy 6 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:16:28 John, I feel the same way. Ive not felt this sick since the 0-5 derby.Usually by Monday Im back up and positive but today its like the mother of all Mondays and Im morose.The first 80 minutes showed us the teams potential. The last 16 minutes showed us Dyches limitations. Ive had enough - were better than Dyche. Get rid. Mark Ryan 7 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:21:25 Having watched us the match I could not watch MOTD to see where it had all gone wrong. I had already seen where it went wrong. Momentum was halted. The defence were tired. Gana was blowing as was Tim but oddly he took Ndiaye off and momentum died. DCL did not NEED to come off. I couldn't bear to listen to Dyches post match garbage. He talks bollocks and I don't even know what he said. I have not read what he said or heard what he said. I don't care. Unless he says " I'm leaving" I'm no longer interested in him or what he has to spout. Can't stand the idiot Nigel Scowen 8 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:25:01 Great article Lyndon, you rekindled a nightmare by referencing that Niasse substitution from days gone by, that will live long for me but not as long as the double substitution of Ndaiye and DCL who were causing all sorts of problems for Bournemouth and had stopped them building any sort of momentum all day long. I must be missing something here but for me they didn't look tired whereas Coleman and Gueye did, Jesus wept!!!!Astonishingly bad match management which has pushed me over the line now along with Dyches appalling post match press conference, the biggest cop out of personal responsibility I think I have ever seen from a football manager, ever. Michael Lynch 9 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:46:51 Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Dyche's game management on Saturday does seem puzzling.FIrstly, there was absolutely no sign that Bournemouth were going to do what they did, so I guess Dyche was just tinkering to use up minutes and protect important players - so off go Ndiaye and DCL. If we'd have held on, nobody would have commented afterwards.But, certainly at 2-1, there were clear issues. Gana and Iroegbunam were very obviously slowing down, as was McNeil, and were unable to track the fresh legged Bournemouth team as they had previously. Coleman, despite his incredible levels of fitness, could have done with some protection and maybe subbing. But bringing on Dixon at 2-1 would have been a huge gamble on an inexperienced player - imagine if he'd be on the pitch when we collapsed? Fingers would be pointed at him and at Dyche.The obvious subs were Garner to come on and Armstrong. Sure, Armstrong has very little experience, but he appears to have tons of energy and confidence and tackles well. Garner could have protected Coleman on the right, Armstrong could have come into midfield. Maybe bring on Doucoure too in midfield and, at 2-1, how about another defender in O'Brien since were getting done on crosses?Dyche probably did nothing much wrong at first, though he was being complacent for sure, but once Bournemouth scored their first, it was obvious action needed to be taken. Quite why he did nothing is beyond me. Dave Cashen 10 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:50:30 He's done himself no favors. Several players have now come out and held their hands up for their part in this shattering collapse. He really needed to do the same. He is the general. He simply cant put all of the blame onto his troops. He needed to own his part in what many will see as the worst day of their Evertonian lives. Unfortunately I think that ship has sailed. He's had plenty of time. I cant see him doing it nowI didnt think I could feel any more miserable until I read several posters reporting Evertonians were confronting each other in the stands. A house divided cannot stand. It will not be lost on the players that, while they have held their hands up, he has steadfastly refused to do so. Instead of holding his hands up, palms showing, to a fan base which is never easily fooled, he has put up his fists. Sigh... Billy Shears 11 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:54:00 For me, it's all about our next two league games... both away from home.If he chooses his favourites, then we'll lose both of them and then he'll be toast... and he'll have only himself to blame.It's high time for our club to be brave and finally employ a progressive Gaffer... for once!A safety-first Manager is no longer fit for purpose – I believe... football has moved on but we as a club haven't. Ian Jones 12 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:54:41 And yet, if some of the chances had been taken it could have been 4 or 5 goals. Not always correct to blame our manager. Having said that, the subs were questionable! Craig Walker 13 Posted 02/09/2024 at 08:58:49 Great article, Lyndon. Saturday was gutting and did remind me of the Watford debacle under Benitez.One minor point, I think we only lost 1-0 away to Oxford United in '86 (when Lineker couldn't find his lucky boots and had to resort to a pair which were too small – they later turned up under his dressing room seat). That meant we had to hammer Southampton at home (which we did) but hope the RS didn't win at Stamford Bridge (which they did). Even supporting the Blues during the glorious mid-80s had gut-wrenching setbacks. That's Everton. Mike Corcoran 14 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:02:38 Dyche is 6th highest paid manager in the Premier League… WTAF!1.Pep GuardiolaManchester City£20 million2.Mikel ArtetaArsenal£9 million3.Unai EmeryAston Villa£8 million4.Erik ten HagManchester United£6.75 million5.Arne SlotLiverpool£6.2 million6.Sean DycheEverton£5 million7.Ange PostecoglouTottenham£5 million8.Thomas FrankBrentford£4.5 million9.Oliver GlasnerCrystal Palace£4.5 million10.Enzo MarescaChelsea£4.2 million11.Marco SilvaFulham£4 million12.Eddie HoweNewcastle£4 million13.Julen LopeteguiWest Ham£3.4 million14.Kieran McKennaIpswich£3 million15.Nuno Espirito SantoNottingham Forest£2 million16.Gary O'NeilWolverhampton Wanderers£1.5 million17.Andoni IraolaBournemouth£1 millionN/AFabian HurzelerBrighton & Hove AlbionN/AN/ASteve CooperLeicester CityN/AN/ARussell MartinSouthamptonN/A Nick Armitage 15 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:06:58 We've all seen some shockers. The worst for me was the Tranmere game. But in terms of gut punches with Everton, it was the 1986 cup final. I still haven't got over that day.On Saturday I expected us to concede a sloppy goal, Keane was on the pitch. The manner of the collapse was unsurprising, it started when Doucoure came on. We've seen it too many times before. When Michael Keane is in that defence, Everton are as porous as a new sieve. This is his 8th season at Everton and he must never play for the club again. I've never known a player lose his focus so easily. He simply falls apart after any error.Dyche isn't the man for Everton and he never was. He'll go at some point soon so there's little point waiting. I made my decision about him before he arrived. He wouldn't get a job anywhere else in the Premier League, so God only knows why the board thought he was the right man for us.If only the club had the foresight, vision and decision makers to do the right thing. Ernie Baywood 16 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:09:42 Mike, that's one to throw back at the "we couldn't get anyone if we sacked him" crowd. Realistically it's still one of the biggest jobs in the game. No we're not buying off the very top shelf because the job comes with some pretty severe problems but, even at a lower salary, we could find someone showing potential in a European league.Yet we go with managers like Allardyce, Benitez, Dyche. What kind of a search takes place to arrive at those kind of names? It's a long way beyond pathetic. Mike Corcoran 17 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:10:46 There should be a clause in managers contracts to enable them to be annulled if they don't meet a minimum points return over a number of league games, eg 9 or 10 points from any sequence of 12 games? Relegation form. Ernie Baywood 18 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:13:55 The problem with that, Mike, is that the kind of chancers that we hire, somehow convince the kind of fools who run us that they've worked wonders if they pick up a point every now and then.Remember... Dyche is a miracle worker! Nigel Scowen 19 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:14:29 Ian @14,I agree with you in that it could easily have been 4 or 5 but that was mainly down to Ndiaye and Calvert-Lewin causing problems for Bournemouth all day.His substitutions weren't questionable, they were criminal. Mal van Schaick 20 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:24:48 I hope that we can turn it around in the next two Premier League games. If not, then it will be a club decision on Dyches future. The thought of going 5 games without a win or a point on the board cannot be acceptable if we want to remain in the Premier League. Dave Abrahams 21 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:25:43 Last minute defeats to Liverpool alone: Chris Lawler(?) after leading 2-0 at Anfield, David Fairclough on Grand National day, Peter Cormack, Van Crying Arse in an FA Cup game, Origi after Calamity really cocked it up in the final seconds of the game all at Anfield, Mane in the 98th minute at Goodison… they were all hard to take but getting buggered by Bleedin' Bournemouth like that put the top hat on it.If Sean Dyche doesn't learn anything from how he mismanaged the situation on Saturday, he will be the victim of his own errors.I will give him a walkover on Saturdays blunders but he has most definitely got to learn from that horrendous last 9 minutes against a team that were down and out. Christopher Timmins 22 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:40:57 Keep things in perspective with regards to the substitutions, we didn't take off 3 defenders and put on 3 attackers, the defenders who were on the pitch were not under any major degree of pressure when the substitutions were made. What is absolutely worrying long term is the collapse that took place on the pitch! Where is Danny O'Neill when you need him! Brian Harrison 23 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:45:00 Dave 12I know you have supported Dyche when many have attacked his methods, so to see you come out and quite rightly blame him for not taking some responsibility in what happened on Saturday speaks volumes. If fans who have supported him are now being critical its very hard to see how he survives unless he does a lot better in our next 2 fixtures. Seamus came out first and said we as players need to look in the mirror after that game, but Dyche has done what he always does and has tried to absolve himself of any blame and said the players need to learn to play till the last minute. No contrition about his substitutions or lack of substitutions, I think the players did give their all but 3 players in particular had been running on empty even before Ndaiye was replaced. Gana, iroebugnam and Seamus had all put a shift in and wer flagging, yet Dyche and his coaches failed to see what many of us were watching. After the game when asked why he removed Ndaiye he said he was getting slower in his recovery, absolute nonsense. Dyche thought the game was won and thought he would give Doucoure who he had dropped some minutes, then compounded his mistake by taking off DCL. Bournemouth had been under pressure because they couldnt handle Ndaiye and DCL was giving their CBs no time to settle. So taking off your 2 most influential attackers gave Bournemouth the green light to be able to throw men forward.I know Pickford is a top keeper but if he had only taken a step forward from his line he could have prevented the first and third goal. Rob Halligan 24 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:50:56 Ernie # 18 beat me to it. “Who would anyone want to come to Everton as manager “. Well theres five million reasons why anyone would come to Everton. Obviously a new manager might not get the same wage, depending on contract negotiations etc, but FFS its a bloody good job for any decent manager to walk into.The likes of Brighton, Brentford, and Crystal Palace all clubs that couldnt hold a candle to Everton, despite the fact how well they may be run, have all found unknown managers (unknown to me anyway) in the last few years or so and done quite well. By that I mean have been comfortably mid table, without any fear of relegation and in the case of Brighton, reaching Europe.Kevin Thelwell did a pretty decent job in the summer transfer, now its time to turn his attention to finding a new manager. Moshiri couldnt a toss about us anymore, so I doubt very much he would move his arse and look for a new manager, but if he had just one ounce of interest in the club he owns, he would be making a phone call to Thelwell and also Colin Chong the acting CEO and advising them to take action. Nigel Scowen 25 Posted 02/09/2024 at 09:55:07 Brian @ 25I dont care what the self apologist Dyche says, though there were players who were flagging but Ndiaye wasnt one of them. The players who were tiring included the two over 35s still on the pitch. Dave Williams 26 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:03:29 Coleman seems to get a free pass because hes 60 grand Seamus but where was he as captain? He should have been going down “ injured” to buy some time( the much maligned Ashley Young would have done), pulled the midfield back fifteen yards to compress the pitch and keep it tight and generally Marshall the troops. Its the managers job but surely the captain and Tarks as deputy, Pickford as Englands keeper should have taken charge and sorted out the shambles. These are experienced players who should know what to do. We fans all know in those circumstances you apply the old adage of keep it tight. Those three together with Dyche Stone and Woan should have had the nous to do it- they didnt and they should be embarrassed and ashamed. Neil Carter 27 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:04:35 The Worst Run Club in Football-Everton-the Moshiri Years will be released on 4th November.It will hopefully tell the tale warts and all of an owner who has no understanding of football-never had a leadership, strategy or a plan to take the club forward. For all those who keep banging the new ground drum-its borrowed money that has taken its toll on this great club-so lets stop the credit to Moshiri crap I see and hear around Goodison. Moshiri has destabilised the club with his approach to running it as a business in football-too many of the wrong choices of managers, DOF and their player choices-interference in football matters he clearly doesnt understand and then saddling this great club with significant financial problems.Hes the one we desperately want away from our great club and all that currently comes with him-the apathy of ownership leading to feelings of safety in their roles as managers and coaches and players earning vast amounts who think nothing of rolling over and have no sense of their great fortune of being able to play for this club and follow so many others who have shown great professional passion for representing us.This is what this great club is built on and has been progressively dismantled by poor leadership over the past 30 years. I was there as ever Saturday and I think of the ghosts of the great football we have played in that historic stadium, many I have witnessed,and could have cried in frustration at what I witnessed as our time there comes to an end soon-we CANNOT go out of this great ground in this manner-ownership, management, tactics and playing attitude and style all needs sorting and changing quickly-Goodison and us fans do not deserve this at this moment in our history Nigel Scowen 28 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:13:01 I was once a Dyche fan but this guy sets too many negative records now for me. I know its a big ask supporting EFC but I would just like a decent nights sleep now and again please. Ian Pilkington 29 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:13:27 Another excellent contribution Lyndon.I felt relieved, with our two outstanding new signings and DCL playing so well, that wouldnt be looking forward to another season of worry and misery after all, but felt irritated that Dyche was clearly settling for 2-0 when we could have easily gone on to win by more. We already knew that despite two campaigns successfully avoiding relegation, Dyche would never be good enough to manage a club above the level of Burnley, but what unfolded on Saturday was the stuff of nightmares.Adding to the other dismal negative records under Dyche, we havent won an away match in 2024 are yet to win a match after going a goal down.Lose at Villa and Leicester and 30 years on we would be in Mike Walker territory and approaching a position when the apparently unsackable Dyche really would have to go.Most worryingly, more than once during his tenure Moshiri had his ear bent by Kenwright and nearly to turned Moyes, a truly dreadful thought. Mark Ryan 30 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:18:28 Modern day PL managers have statistics to work on, dieticians, striker coaches, defence tactician, goalkeeper coaches, R&R specialists. Dyche is a finger in the air guy. Who shall I take off ? I know I'll take DCl and Ndiaye off, they deserve a Goodison ovation today. His thumb was up his arse, his brain in neutral and could not see that Gana, Tim, Seamus were all blowing our their arsesThe man is a dinosaur manager. Too old school. He is paid to know better than that. He could smell it ? Smell what, the shit about to run down back of his Sergio Tacchini tracky bottoms ?? Can we have a petition and a collection. Pay him off and get Potter Christopher Timmins 31 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:21:53 Rob H, three games into the season and you think that action is needed on the managerial front? He, Dyche, is still the same manager, who helped us accumulated sufficient points for a near mid table finish last year and kept us up, with a last day win against Saturday's opponents in his first season. If come the second International break, 7 games in, there is a still a problem, at that stage I can accept a need for a change as Koeman and Silva departed around that time, maybe a little later into the season.Changing the manager during the season usually results in a David Moyes type appointment, i.e. someone to stabilze the ship. Pete Clarke 32 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:23:03 Dyche for sure has to take some blame but I agree with Brian that Pickford should have dealt with both crosses easily. He is a coward when it comes to controlling his 6-yard box and, for me right now, he is one player that needs to be replaced. He can't hide behind a few good shot-stoppers any more. We very rarely see keepers substituted but he's more to blame than any of our outfield players for Saturday's collapse. Having said all of that, I can't stop thinking that Bill Kenwright died of guilt when he realised what the muppet Moshiri was doing to our club. We have nobody running the club so it's got to be chaotic. Neil Carter 33 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:23:22 Might need more than Harry Potter and his magic wand at the moment, Mark!!! Neil Carter 34 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:29:47 Maybe Beatrix Potter and talking animals could do better than Dyche and his coaches? Andy Crooks 35 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:30:50 Dave, you're right. That did put the top hat on it.I call at me mate's jewellers shop on a Monday (he's a Blue) and we discuss the weekend's usual defeat. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Gone Away" sign on his door.This is going to take a while to get over. I wonder how many of the players went out for a meal and an expensive bottle of wine on Saturday night? I doubt many of us did… Denis Richardson 36 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:37:46 The start of the season I find always exaggerates the good and the bad. We're obviously bottom… but only a win off 13th. Last season, we also lost our first 3 league games and only managed 1 point from the first 5. Without the deductions, we'd have finished comfortably mid-table. It's looking like we'll probably only have 1 point from the first 5 again this season. (I'm not expecting anything against Villa.)I'll give Dyche and the players the first 10 games or so before drawing any conclusions. It's been a crap start but we're so early in the season, it doesn't make any sense to make significant decisions at this time. I get that people are pissed but it's only one game and no time for knee-jerk reactions. The last thing imo we need now is yet another change in manager. We've only just managed to clear out the deadwood from the Frankenstein squad Dyche inherited – Keane excepted. A new guy coming in now would start to try and sign his own players and just distrust the squad again. Patience. Things will get better, especially once Branthwaite is back and the new guys more settled in. I'm trying to stay positive, thinking of how we ran Bournemouth ragged for the first 80-odd minutes. Neil Carter 37 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:42:30 You're right, Denis — patience is difficult right now. It's the manner of Saturday's collapse that's certainly frustrating and more frightening to many of us for the future of this season. Tony Abrahams 38 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:45:14 This is a great report, Lyndon, and I've only read half of it because I've stopped to comment on what you have written about the V, when it is obvious to most people that stopping the cross, has got to be the most important thing.This is especially true when you have got players like Michael Keane in the middle of your defence because his organization skills for a central defender playing at any level are absolute zero in my opinion. Jim Bennings 39 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:45:58 I still can't quite get my head around how you can have three or four massively experienced players on that pitch at the end in Pickford, Tarkowski, Coleman, Gana and Keane… yet somehow they allow that to happen.Where was the leadership?Bad news when that kind of thing happens because it shows much about the management and the actual mentality throughout. Brian Harrison 40 Posted 02/09/2024 at 10:46:48 I know that Moshiri has only one thought at the moment and that is selling the club; he is willing to sell to anybody, as was proven with his insistence that 777 Partners were the best people to take the club forward. But, if selling a Premier League club with a debt heading north of £750M, albeit with a brand new stadium, is difficult should relegation become a possibility, then selling a possible Championship club with that debt would be near impossible.I couldn't see how anybody would take the massive risk of owning a club with massive debts and no Premier League Sky money to offset some of the costs. Yes, I know that there is a parachute payment for clubs relegated; that is small beer compared to our debt.Who would have thought that, when Usmanov & Moshiri bought the club, we would be in such a perilous position financially 6 years later? Tony Abrahams 41 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:13:14 I think Moshiri could easily sell the club, Brian, but not for the money he wants though.Being lucky enough to have been nowhere near Goodison on Saturday, I suppose I can be one of the very few people who hasn't been that badly affected by Saturday's capitulation. I hope that selling the club quickly before relegation comes back into the equation has got to uppermost in Moshiri's thoughts… Nigel Scowen 42 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:18:16 The difference for me between now and the start of last season is the goals against column and the lack of leadership both on and off the pitch.We could easily have had 2 or 3 wins in the first 5 games last season. I always thought, with a bit of luck, we would turn it around last season; this season, we are a laughing stock.Whether it's the manager per se or the mentality of the players, the manner of that defeat rests squarely on the shoulders of the man at the helm. Mark Ryan 43 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:20:31 I'm loving the term 'knee-jerk reaction'. Because of course last season's results and the season before were so good. The displays were so amazing. We have been dog shit under Dyche, survival or no survival. Get Potter and let's play our way to safety under him and not under Dychloplodus. Potter is no mug, he knows what a football team looks like , for fuck's sake, sack the disc beard now. Knee-jerk reaction? No, it's not a knee-jerk reaction. I think I'm going to stop posting. This is making me feel worse. I'll come back when he's gone. You won't miss my drivel but I'll say this: Dyche will deliver a 15-point deduction to this club before the season has barely started. There will be 1 point on the board after 6 starts and you'll be happy with that? He's the man is he to take us to safety? Not again he won't. Bye for now. Michael Kenrick 44 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:43:24 Dychloplodus?It might catch on in your absence, Mark. And if you don't come back, we'll always have that to remember you by!And Pete @34:We have nobody running the club so it's got to be chaotic.Is there any chance we can knock this meme on the head? It is literally untrue, but often repeated on these pages. There are people running the club. They may not be running it quite as we like but, if it was in the chaos you suggest, I can't imagine they would be able to complete transactions in the transfer window, or put on a game in the Old Lady for 38,000+ every other week. Rennie Smith 45 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:50:37 Yes it's early days, and we were just as bad last year in terms of results but not goals conceded, but there was something about Saturday that was completely different and maybe it is a turning point? In any other club Dyche would have been long gone based on results, I'm not saying he should be sacked but he seems to be coming to the end of his own line with the things he's been saying recently. He'll point to the fact that aside from last season's derby that's the best performance we've put in for a long time, and that's encouraging enough, he deserves praise for that, but when it started heading south, just saying "I was screaming at them" isn't good enough. I feel like our fan exhaustion rate is getting shorter and shorter as each season goes on. There's only so many times we can dig these lot out of a hole and a few more matches like that and the connection will break for good Paul Hewitt 46 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:53:55 If I was Textor I'd have been on the phone Saturday night tellIng Moshiri to get rid of Dyche. Let's be honest he's only manager till any new owner comes in. Why wait till the takeover is done?, that's wasting valuable time. Frank Fearns 47 Posted 02/09/2024 at 11:53:55 Article on here recently - Dyche previous stats to stay up ( that sickens me for a start ). Seems 9 wins and 9 draws - 35 points - so only need to lose another 17 matches. I give up!!! Joe McMahon 48 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:13:56 Pete@34 fully agree, and always have done with Pickford when it comes to crosses costs us points. An experienced keeper like he is has to command the area, its like he's walking through glue.Seamus is also being targeted like Baines was at the end of his career. Christ this club is so dysfunctional I could cry. We have a 2 times relegation manager, that's stuck in his ways. how on earth would it ever work. Tony Abrahams 49 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:18:05 Bill didnt die out of guilt Pete C, he probably just went into his theater, a theater bought, with the money he made out of Everton, and got whoever was in charge of the costumes and the makeup, to help create him a new identity, whilst he sat there writing out his own eulogy. Derek Powell 50 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:25:37 Has he gone yet? James Marshall 51 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:26:45 1. There's nobody to fire Dyche2. We can't afford to pay off Dyche, Woan & Stone3. Everton Alan Bailey 52 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:31:33 Sean Dyche needs to understand the importance of substitutions1) TIREDNESS.Andoni Iraola the Bournemouth manager made three substitutions in the 65th minute and two substitutions in the 77th minute. Sean Dyche made one substitution in the 83 minute and another in the 88 minute.So one team had five refreshed players for virtually the last quarter and the other team had two refreshed players for the last couple of minutes. It was obvious which was which.This season the Premiere League allow five substitutes and it is obvious that this is a concession which should be used, Bournemouth certainly did. 2) MORALE. It is not good for the morale of the players on the bench to only use substitutions in the last few minutes. those on the bench (especially the newly signed ones) must have been itching to get on the pitch.3) TEENAGERS At least one youngster should play a quarter of a game to show his skills in front the supporters.4) TACTICS substitutions allow the balance of the team to be changed. When we were two up an attacker or midfielder should have been substituted for an out and out defender to shore up the defence. Alan Bailey 53 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:31:33 Sean Dyche needs to understand the importance of substitutions1) TIREDNESS.Andoni Iraola the Bournemouth manager made three substitutions in the 65th minute and two substitutions in the 77th minute. Sean Dyche made one substitution in the 83 minute and another in the 88 minute.So one team had five refreshed players for virtually the last quarter and the other team had two refreshed players for the last couple of minutes. It was obvious which was which.This season the Premiere League allow five substitutes and it is obvious that this is a concession which should be used, Bournemouth certainly did. 2) MORALE. It is not good for the morale of the players on the bench to only use substitutions in the last few minutes. those on the bench (especially the newly signed ones) must have been itching to get on the pitch.3) TEENAGERS At least one youngster should play a quarter of a game to show his skills in front the supporters.4) TACTICS substitutions allow the balance of the team to be changed. When we were two up an attacker or midfielder should have been substituted for an out and out defender to shore up the defence. Tommy Hughes 54 Posted 02/09/2024 at 12:36:07 Really fed up now, Dyche has to go if he had any self respect this job is to much for him you can see it stressed anxiety he's full of it. big problem is when you start a season just wanting 40 points to stay up there is no ambition there it doesn't matter what squad you have you want to win the league how you build winners.Well Dyche this is Everton mate not Burnley we want to win the league every season ! Yeah not realistic but that has to be the goal. I want him out we have to stop playing Coleman gueye and Doucoure, even Tarky and kean let's get youth inn and a manager that will stop talking so much BS and get a manager who wants to win every bloody game this club is the laughstock laughing of the league it's getting ridiculous. I'd get Moyes in till end of season review it and be looking for a young hungry manager.This turkey has to go now. Colin Malone 55 Posted 02/09/2024 at 13:41:01 Brian # 23.Totally agree. Our two best players upfront, keeping Bournemouth at bay. The prick took them off.The midfield were out on there arses yet he makes the same subs as his done, since being here. To me that's shows no football knowledge. It shows 70s pub team knowledge. Then he goes on about the hard yards that the players faulted on after working their arses off. Dinosaur. Christy Ring 56 Posted 02/09/2024 at 13:47:33 Great article Lyndon, I'm still seething, and I still blame Dyche. What does O'Brien have to do to get a game, stats showed that Keane had less touches than Pickford. How was Seamus left on for the full 90, after playing his first game of the season on Tuesday night, and we all know Tim goes missing after the 70min mark, and again on Saturday. Could Woan or Stone not tell Dyche to shore up the midfield with Garner, and Dixon and O'Brien. Ndiaye and Calvert-Lewin had the B'mouth defence stretched, and when they went off they had the freedom to attack from the back, because Beto can't hold up the ball and Doucoure has no first touch. We would have been sitting pretty with 3 pts, and the confidence high, but now we go to Villa Park struggling for confidence, all down to the managers decisions. Neil Lawson 57 Posted 02/09/2024 at 13:48:56 Mike 14. We are paying Dino Dyche 5m per year ? That is appalling. Worse still, when he is sacked he will get an utterly offensive pay off for being shit. How is that ever acceptable. Gross mismanagement = the sack. No pay beyond that date. Just go. Dyche can truly afford to be a stubborn and arrogant knob. For him it is win win. We could all have a little more respect for him if he had come out after the game and shouldered appropriate responsibility. But no. £5m worth of drivel.The players showed for 80 minutes that they could be competitive and half decent. Please let a new manager make them competitive and at least three quarter decent. When oh when are any of us going to truly enjoy a game and not have our weekend ruined? I am tired of apologising to my 2 sons for absorbing them into the tragedy which is Everton. Kevin Molloy 58 Posted 02/09/2024 at 13:50:52 Relax, it's not nearly as bad as it looks. I can say this as I didn't see the game on Saturday and so am not carrying the trauma in the same way. If you had asked Dyche, I reckon before the season started he would have told you he was worried about these early games. We are vulnerable at the moment. We've lost players to injury and the window, and you just can't bed in the newbies straight away. It takes weeks and weeks. Indeed it would be negligent to throw them into Goodison when things are so tense. And so if we're so threadbare you are reluctant to make many subs. We can see now the difference between Beto and Dom. We've got Ashley Young and Doucoure on the bench. And we were two nil up. He must have thought 'we've got the cushion, hopefully the first string will see us home'. But the fullbacks were dead on their feet and Keane is just not good enough. And the nervousness of the crowd does affect things. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be one of that defence dog tired on 88 minutes with the crowd suddenly as nervous as hell. And then 6 minutes injury time. And the final excuse, we are changing the way we play. Adjusting to a team that scores more goals. Rather than every game being the Alamo. We will dominate more teams this year, but that then necessitates a change in style. And we are still adjusting. I'm optimistic, we've got in some cracking players and have shown we can play well. We just need the full squad. I think we all know the difference between Keane and Branthwaite, it probably adds up to about two points every game Brian Harrison 59 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:03:00 I believe that Everton are playing a friendly behind closed doors this week. According to Sean Dyche, it's to improve the fitness and to integrate the new players. He was asked if Branthwaite would be playing in this game? Apparently not. Dyche said he is not quite there yet. Now being an old cynic, I thought a couple of weeks before the season started Dyche said Branthwaite had a minor groin injury and I thought maybe a deal had been agreed for him to go to Man Utd and they didn't want him to play till the transfer was completed. But as we know, Everton refused the offers Man Utd made and he stayed at Everton. Yet, even being told weeks ago it was a minor groin strain, he still isn't ready to join in with a friendly.Dyche hasn't put a timescale on when Branthwaite will be fit to train yet; last week, Branthwaite posted he was hoping to be fit for the next game.Also no sign of O'Brien although he played in most of the pre-season friendlies and no sign of Lindstrøm. Surely after playing all the friendlies O'Brien must be match-fit? Bill Gall 60 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:08:15 Yes the result on Saturday was shocking in how it ended, and the firing of the manager is understandable. Firing the manager after 1 game is a in the moment reaction and understandable, but firing the manager for 1 game is re actionable and really he should be judged over all the games he has managed for Everton. To me any manager should be able to keep Everton in the Premiership if they want to finish 15th or around that area, And this has been S.Dyche's target since he came., and with previous clubs.We don't need another one like D.Moyes we should be looking, like other clubs, for younger more ambitious manager and coaches.Dyche most probably will save us again, but at what cost, he has been given the opportunity with other clubs and failed, we should not let him continue with Everton after another televised game that showed up all his faults. It is amazing that he gets his attackers scoring, and yet the players he boasts about, his defenders fail. He will never change so this may not be the last disappointment,and if he is kept on, he will be discussed as one of the worst managers they have had, and they have had a few. Mark Murphy 61 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:15:31 “Weve lost players to injuries”The only player I think would have played if not injured is Branthwaite. Niall McIlhone 62 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:18:24 Good article, Lyndon, and I would not be surprised if the post match write ups by you and Michael -coupled with todays offering -have set a record in terms of the number and quality of responses? We are all seemingly struck down by this debacle. Personally, as bamboozled as I am about the Bournemouth result, I still maintain that Dyche needs to be given more time, in fact, I think we should really only judge when we have Tarkowski back to full fitness, Branthwaite in the team, and we have a settled right back. The early form of the new recruits is very encouraging so far, despite the poor results. I do think words need to had with Pickford, and I dont think it would do any harm to put Begovic in for the Villa game and give Jordan a game rest after his England duties? He was most definitely at fault for at least one, possibly two goals due to his failure to take charge of his six yard box. I say this, but much will depend upon Dyches capacity to restore confidence, unity and determination in the camp before the next game, I believe he will, even though getting any joy at Villa will be a big ask? Finally, your title and the “sledgehammer” mertaphor, Lyndon; for me, it was more like an ice pick in goolies when that third goal went in. Ray Jacques 63 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:22:01 Any bets on Villa scoring after 20 minutes and adding a second within 5 minutes to finish the game.Oh and you just know Onana will score.All written in the stars, such is our way at Everton.After Saturday I truly believe we are cursed. Steve Brown 64 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:22:42 The question is whether you focus on the first 87 minutes (excellent) or the last 9 minutes (shameful)? Arguing over who got it wrong the most (players or manager) is pointless - they both share the blame massively. It was a big collective failure.Experience is very important, but when the manager prizes it above ability, form and slotting players into their best position then it makes him look stubborn and illogical. Also, Dyche really let himself down in the post match conference by not accepting responsibility as the leader in the dressing room.The newer players like Tim Iro, Ndiaye and OBrien look more confident, capable and adaptable, and the Academy players Dixon and Armstrong are definitely ready for the match-day squad. Lindstrom may take a bit longer, and Mangala can soon be integrated into the squad.If Dyche persists in relying on ‘out of form players (Gana, Tarkowski, McNeil, Mykolenko), players out of position (Young at right back, McNeil (again) at No.10) or players who are simply not good enough (Keane, Harrison) then he will lose credibility rapidly.Ultimately. it may be his caution that finishes him off. That would be a pity as he has earned the right to manage us this season. Rennie Smith 65 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:34:32 C'mon Niall#62 (and a few others), you can't be calling for Pickford to be benched, at times he single-handedly kept us afloat last season. He did his best to make up for the shower in front of him by making a few point-blank saves, but eventually if you leave people unmarked that many times there's f-all you can do. And by the way, I though Keane had a decent game so I don't agree with the easy-target'ers getting on his back.One thing I can't get out of my head is where did Mykolenko go for their second goal? Now I like him as a player, and we don't have another option apart from Young at LB (god help us), but I stupidly re-watched the "highlights" when I got home and I can't figure out where he is when they score their second goal. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but we seem to have Keane at LB, McNeil jogging back from left-midfield and Gana just inside him. Did I miss something (quite possible because I had my head in my hands)? Was he injured? Did he stop for a pint on the way back? Please someone put me out of my misery Paul Hewitt 66 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:42:38 Steve@64. As good as the first 87 minutes were, we simply can't ignore the final 9 minutes. When the score went to 2-1 then he should have made the changes in midfield and defence, he did nothing. At 2-2 he again did nothing. Sorry but that was simply not acceptable at any level. To me he doesn't look bothered. He looks like a man who knows he won't be here next season. Niall McIlhone 67 Posted 02/09/2024 at 14:49:05 Hi, Rennie(#65) I have lauded Pickford for some fantastic performances, and still think he is a top goalkeeper, but he has a fatal flaw, insofar as he does not come out for crosses, as we saw the other day. It seems to me that this may be "coached into him" with reliance upon our centre backs and others--, notably DCL -providing the defence? I, myself, still panic when the opposition get corners or are in good crossing positions, as you just know he won't come out like Big Nev and dominate his six yard box, thus putting pressure on his defenders? Personally, I don't think the occasional "wake up call" does JP any harm? I remember he missed the game at Man City a few seasons ago and stand-in keeper (Olsen) had a blinder, only for JP to return with greater focus, maybe having reflected more upon his own game, I don't know? Jerome Shields 68 Posted 02/09/2024 at 15:01:46 Even people who are not Everton Supporters found that 10 minutes a difficult watch.T he only good thing about it was that Dyche, who immediately realised he had made a blunder, had to stand and watch as it unfolded before his eyes. and face questions afterwards.Yes, he got his nose well and truly rubbed in it. Depending on Everton's Finch Farm bottling players in such circumstances has been a no-no, right through most of the examples you have given, Lyndon. Bill Gall 69 Posted 02/09/2024 at 15:08:43 Niall @67, Pickford may soon be getting the same nickname as Gordon West, and that was 'Dracula' as they said he did not like high crosses. Kevin Edward 70 Posted 02/09/2024 at 15:26:39 We are stuck in a rut until we get a new owner. Dyche won't be going any time soon, so we have to suck it up for now. It was unbearable on Saturday, and I admire Lyndon's optimism, it makes me fell better reading it.We played well at Villa on one visit recently, so perhaps we can bounce back and restore some credibility as a football team. On balance, I would prefer bringing in another manager sooner rather than later if this Dyche dross continues. Unfortunately in the modern football model, players, managers, agents etc are all winners, regardless of performance. How much did our manager and players really want to win last Saturday? Winning is a mentality and they just didn't want it badly enough, but hopefully they don't like looking like chumps either (which they all are at the moment). I can't imagine that any of them read ToffeeWeb comments, but some leadership on the pitch might be a good idea. Michael Kenrick 72 Posted 02/09/2024 at 15:34:50 Brian @59, Dyche said Branthwaite had a minor groin injury.Without going into search mode, I would suggest that what Dyche said was more along the lines of "Branthwaite had a minor operation for a groin injury" [emphasis added] — which I think might be a little more accurate, and might explain his continuing absence as he recovers. But then, if you thought it was all some elaborate lie anyway…Also, no sign of O'Brien … and no sign of Lindstrøm.Did you perhaps decide to ignore the subs bench, where there was a big sign of both players amongst Dyche's criminally unused subs? Peter Mills 73 Posted 02/09/2024 at 15:38:09 Dave#12 - and Gary McAllister. Roy Johnstone 74 Posted 02/09/2024 at 15:59:27 Me and my son were getting picked up by my Mrs from the Aldi on Rice Lane. She found us slumped against the wall like a couple of winos. Felt like I'd been kicked in the balls 3 times in 10 minutes. Sickening. 1986 at Wembley was bad. Tranmere in the cup. 5-0 at Tottenham. Maybe age is playing tricks, but I can't remember a worse one than Saturday. Niall McIlhone 75 Posted 02/09/2024 at 16:16:23 Bill@70…..I remember that, though I recall I saw more of Andy Rankin in goal when I first started attending games. David Lawson was another keeper hopeless on dealing with high balls. I really dont want to unduly criticise Pickford, who has been a stellar player in recent seasons, but I just dont feel this aspect of his game has improved enough? I have it in my mind that international football places much less emphasis on high crosses, and so JP does not get exposed in the same way as the game in PL England does. One final observation, two of the three Bournemouth scorers were, I recall, linked with moves to Everton before signing for The Cherries. Sinisterra was formerly a Leeds player, whilst Semenyo chose to join Southampton before moving along the South Coast. Both would be assets, but sadly, we just cant attract these sorts of players to the club right now. Barry Rathbone 76 Posted 02/09/2024 at 16:16:27 Trouble is these results stretch way back we had the holy trinity in the fa cup semi final 1971 dominating at 1 nil up and still managed to lose 2-1, suspicions about our mental fortitude began to emerge back then.We like to think it's just us but it's not. Utd and Liverpool, two of the biggest out there, have both been embarrassed on the biggest stage by Barca and Real Madrid respectively in CL finals. The difference is they regroup and win stuff domestically or at least challenge. We simply cannot create a winning team no matter what and fans won't have it, I've lost track of friends and relatives who have walked away and who can blame them? Results like this are not uncommon jaw dropping capitulations are what "Everton that" is all about.Oodles of money is the only answer this idea of steady growth is a fantasy, the patience is not there. Evertonians need to see a trophy, a winning team on an open top bus or the exodus of the faithful will continue. Pat Kelly 77 Posted 02/09/2024 at 16:21:33 Until Dyche is accountable to somebody who is even remotely arsed about the Club, it will continue to be a laughing stock. A new owner wont put up with the continued demise of Everton and Dyche's contribution to it. Tony Abrahams 78 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:04:05 I cant believe people putting this game ahead of Wigan, in the quarter final of the cup at Goodison, the FA cup finals in 1986, and 1989, or the night we lost the league at Oxford?Tranmere was one of my most sickening, it was up there with the games I have mentioned already, (I couldnt believe the gate a few days later for a midweek home league game against Middlesbrough - The unbelievably loyal Evertonians really amaze me at times) but the one I have felt the most in my adult life, was when we had Liverpool on the ropes at Wembley, and Phil Neville, later told us that they had been discussing how Liverpool would throw the kitchen sink at us in the second half.🤦♂️I remember we were beating Newcastle 2-0, with the clock on 90 minutes in a night match at Goodison a few years ago, but even the great pragmatic Carlo Ancelloti, had to settle for a draw that night.I think Kevin M, makes a lot of very sensible points@58, but a lot of people have already made up their minds and want Dyche, out of our club. Andy Crooks 79 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:11:16 Hope you had a great holiday, Tony. I had forgotten the agony of the Wigan one, but for me it seems that the last cut is always the deepest. I don't think I could take anything worse this season. Frank Fearns 80 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:18:20 Jerome @68 from what Dyche said in his post match interview he didn't recognise he'd made a blunder he just simply blamed the players for not keeping shape etc. I've yet to hear Dyche accept that he made a cock up as he blames players, refs, assist refs, the cat that ran across the pitch! anything but he'll never " recognise" his blunders. Too big an ego. Tony Abrahams 81 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:26:31 There is always worse Andy, although regarding Everton, I dont think anything could ever be worse than the soon to be last twenty five years, which started on a Boxing Day, if my memory is correct.I never met Brendan, but I spoke to him yesterday and although he was disappointed and blamed it on the silly substitutions that Sean Dyche made Andy, he sounded just like you whenever you have been to Goodison Pk, and I suggested you should make another pilgrimage together, before the Old Lady shuts forever leaving us only memories of a place I now believe is cursed.I say its cursed but, I still believe that its full of Evertonian spirits and knowing how much passion both the living and the dead have always had for Everton Football Club, Im thinking of holding a seance, (just fuck off Kenwright!) to see if we can win the cup💙 Brian Harrison 82 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:31:47 Michael 72You may well be right that Branthwaites operation was a wee bit more than a minor groin injury. As for me forgetting O,Brien and Lindstrom were on the bench no I didnt, but we all know sometimes we have named 2 goalkeepers to make up the numbers on the bench. So seeing as we have brought both to the club he could hardly not have them on the bench. But Dyche did say about their lack of premier league experience then it seemed he wasn't going to use them. Dyche goes on about how important that fitness is and much store is put on his gaffer days training, yet so far in our 3 league games the opposition have finished the game stronger than we have. So its either he doesnt recognise when players are flagging as Michael Ball said in his Echo column today or his fitness regime is sadly lacking compared to the rest of the Premier league, and so far we haven't played any of last seasons top 4. Jeff Spiers 83 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:31:57 Agree with the comments above re: times when we have surrendered. Every one has been a sickener. I can recall the derby at Anfield when they equalised. The lad next me uttered We've lost this. Chris Lawler finished us off. Rob Halligan 84 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:35:36 Another right kick to the goolies was the FA Cup defeat to Shrewsbury. FFS, Shrewsbury who were in league two that season, and finished that season being relegated to the Conference league, or Nationwide League or whatever it was called at the time. Mark Murphy 85 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:42:52 Carlisle twice.Especially the Christmas/new year one.Couldve won the league that year. Danny O’Neill 86 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:51:58 Where to start on disappointing results. Ill try and do this chronologically. Saturday, obviously. The 6-0 mauling by Chelsea last season. Derbies (various), the 86 cup final, was hard to take although the semi-final comes close. The one that sticks out however is the 5-0 drubbing at Goodison. Two other less obvious ones are when we scored first (Ferguson) and went onto lose 4 – 1 to Sheffield Wednesday in the mid-90s. The various humiliations against Arsenal, and being thumped 6-2 by Villa way back.Im sure if I done my research, I could go on. Equally, I could remember some of the victories, but Id be mostly reminiscing about the 80s, as there hasnt been a lot since!! Paul Birmingham 87 Posted 02/09/2024 at 17:58:06 A lifetime of if onlys. Heres a few.Carlisle H. 1975, effectively lost any hope of winning the Championship, was a killer.Clive Thomas 1977, the Shit descions at Wembley when we should have had penalties v the RS in 1986.Wimbledon away 1987.Even being 2-0 up at Spurs and Arsenal a few times in the League in 80s and 90s, we lost.Wembley curse 89, 90 v Palace Sinod.Grimsby 85 H, Port Vale away 96Tranmere, Wigan H. There's so many.But it's the hope of success, the craick and banter and stench of Goodison Park, that creates the eternal vision of hope.One day soon...UTFTs! Rob Halligan 88 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:00:56 Mark # 85……yep, Carlisle at home, when if I remember rightly, we were 2-0 up and lost 3-2. However, I will always remember the away defeat 3-0, because it was my birthday that day. Another kick in the bollocks! Jay Harris 89 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:03:15 I have defended and supported Dyche over the last two years despite consistent poor team selection and in game management and said it would be madness to make a change.In the modern game with 5 substitutes good in game management has taken on even more importance and at last I am now convinced SD is no longer the man to take us forward, in fact, he looks defeated himself which may have come as a result of so many flirts with relegation over the past few years with us and previously with Burnley.I believe he is burned out and doesnt have the energy to complete another season. Even Klopp who spent most of his time with top class players at the top of the league (How that hurts) said he no longer had the energy to continue, Pep ahs also said the same during his almighty carreer.So IMO irrespective of Saturdays catastrophe I believe we should make a change over the breakWe all remember the impact Moyes had when he came to the club as a fresh up and coming manager and that is what we need imo.Another fresh up and coming manager not Moyes although he would steady the ship until we get to Bramley Moore. Tommy Carter 90 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:14:56 When they started to flood our box with crosses. It may have been an idea to put a 66 centre back into the pitch. Despite his lack of ‘experience Im sure hed maybe have won a few headers and may even have deterred Bournemouth from opting to cross the ball in the first place Neil Copeland 91 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:22:29 Rob, 2-0 up at home to Sheff Utd later in the same season and lost 3-2 Fred Quick 92 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:22:55 I remember most of those 'catastrophic' matches that are mentioned above from Fulham in the FA cup in 1975, through to last Saturday's debacle.As a group of supporters does our collective Elephantile memory serve any real purpose? I have noticed fans of other clubs, particularly those across the park, on the all too rare occasions when it happens, they shrug off defeats as a bump in the road, in fact they don't even recognise that they have lost, they deflect and deny it as if it never happened. Meanwhile, we harp on about games that we have lost from as far back as we can remember, or even if we are too young to remember those defeats they remain a part of our collective psyche. I utterly dislike the term it's 'Everton that' because it's another term for 'losers', as a group of supporters we must somehow rid ourselves of the loser mentality, and obviously in current circumstances that is a very difficult thing to do. I just hope that when we do arrive at the new Stadium, all of the unnecessary baggage that we now carry, is left behind at Goodison and that a fresh start, with a fresh attitude from everybody connected to the club can take its place. Rob Halligan 93 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:33:40 Fred…..Blame Lyndon! 😀😀 Fred Quick 94 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:39:00 If it's any consolation, Sean Dyche's teams aren't renowned for being fast starters, more often than not, his sides have fairly low points totals from their first ten fixtures.4,11,16,8,12,5,7,10 and so far zero, his teams have never had a positive goal difference in the opening ten league fixtures, and the best wins total is 4. Six times his sides have lost at least five of the opening ten games.That's a pattern if ever there was one, will he be able to improve things in the last 28 games if he remains in charge? Liam Mogan 95 Posted 02/09/2024 at 18:48:16 The reason Saturday was so difficult was that it came out of nowhere.At 85 mins, the sun was shining, people in the stands by me were all smiling, saying this is the best we have played for years. We were being entertained, Ndiaye was playing like a cross between Duncan Mckenzie and Alex Young. It was thrilling, enjoyable. A future was being mapped before our eyes. We got sucked in. We needed this.10 mins later we were stunned, people either frothing at the mouth, arguing with each other or unable to speak their jaws had dropped so far. There've been plenty of games that have hurt more. But I struggle to remember any others that happened from nothing, so quickly, so devastatingly. Utimately it's the hope that kills you Julian Exshaw 96 Posted 02/09/2024 at 19:11:38 We are like a ship drifing on the high seas without a captain and an anchor. How sad that we have come to this; a club with an owner who wants out as quickly as possible and a coach who seems to belong to a bygone era.It was glorious at times on Saturday; the fans were singing in the sunshine, the players were popping it around with purpose before the calamitous and inexplicable last ten minutes. I initially felt it was the players' fault before fellow ToffeeWebbers pointed out that some players were 'on their feet'. They should have been replaced. That is on Dyche, no question.All of that being said, we simply won't make any significant progress until Moshiri is gone. Of course we will win here and there, we might climb to 16th, we might get through another round or two of the Carabao but be out before the tinsel has decked the trees. Then we'll draw City away in the third round of the cup and another year of mediocrity will have passed.My hope and my dream is for the right owner to step up to the plate and transform this magnificant club and steer us into a football renaissance at BMD. Add Your Comments In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site. » Log in now Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site. 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