Out with the new and in with the old!

Thanks Simon, a really well written article giving plenty of useful information and a balanced view.

The main issue right now is staying in the Premier League. I think Moyes will simply have a more demanding attitude, higher standards and a freshness about him that means we will get the handful of wins we need. Our players are certainly better than Dyche seemed to be trying to convince everyone they were.

After that, we’ll need around 10-12 new players. Whilst 1 or 2 (perhaps both goalkeepers as you suggest) will be contract renewals, we’re then looking at something like 2-3 actual transfers, 4 loans and therefore around 4 free transfers. There are an awful lot of players who would be be good enough for a likely mid-table Everton next season, and Moyes is the type to get slightly more out of a certain type of player than other managers.

People used to complain that Moyes was only getting us 5-8th every season and could go no further. From where we are, we’ll take 8th-12th for a couple of seasons whilst things get sorted out. Over that time, if the finances, wage bill and business side improve and somebody gets the academy producing either first team players of Championship sales of £5-10M, the mess of the last three years might finally be sorted.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the veiled slurs and insinuation Bandied about regarding Dyche's dismissal, Simon.

The guy may not be a tactical genius, but he has demonstrated repeatedly that what he lacked in brains, he certainly made up or in balls. He has stood firm in the face of far worse situations than this.

In the absence of any real evidence I would suggest it is highly likely that he has over played his hand and gave the old managers "back me (financially) or sack me" ultimatum. I think every manager is entitled to play that card. Dyche more than most...but it clearly backfired on him. Anyway its water under now. we have to deal with the here and now.

I wont look at Moyes's stats and marvel at the job he did or us first time around. The reality is all to fresh in my memory. The disgraceful mismanagement of this club and the squandering of hundreds of millions of pounds since his departure does not make the job he did any more acceptable. All those many many wrongs simply cannot make a right.

I believe we will stay up. Always have done, but don't think we will get a single point under Moyes that we would'nt have done under Dyche. They are two coaches cut from the same cloth. While one could complain he operated on a shoe string. The other can claim he could only dream of shoe strings.

And while I accept that one of the teams around us may put together a run to take them away from the drop zone. Both experience and knowledge tells me they wont all do it. We have more points. more games to play and a better goal difference than the others. We are also capable of putting together a run to take us clear. Lets face it. ALL the other clubs down there are in uncharted waters. While we have players with vast experience of the fight to stay in the Premier league.

Despite so many pressing the panic button. It was and still is, most definitely advantage Everton. No amount of hypothetical bollocks can alter that fact.

I would have been far happier to see the money spent on players than to see us make the most like for like swap since the red tory party replaced the blue one on July 4th

Simon

Those are interesting links, especially the PSR one, which has us roughly where I thought we were, very little room for this window, and any we had now mostly extinguished by more management pay offs.

If we are looking at the bigger picture, the one big missing link is a CEO, and with the right candidate, debatably our first ever proper one. Something I notice about successful teams is that they all generally have a highly competent CEO, who can put the right team in place and keep the show on the road. The absence of a decent one at Man U, similar to us, in fact, might explain their fall from grace. Unfortunately we seem to be doing this the wrong way around, but then it might be a case of 'events, dear boy, events...'

Simon, well done to pull all this together. Tons of great information here covering multiple aspects of this transition.

However, regarding Dyche's sudden departure, there's a slightly different version to Andy Hunter's, published Friday in the Athletic by the exceptionally well-informed Patrick Boyland. Here are some excerpts:

It was a move that blindsided Everton’s new owners The Friedkin Group (TFG), barely a fortnight into their tenure.

Earlier this week, manager Sean Dyche informed the club’s hierarchy that he had taken the team as far as he could. Dyche did not go as far as to formally resign — that would have had financial ramifications with his £5million-a-year ($6.2m) deal due to expire at the end of the season.

TFG’s view was that Dyche’s comments and behaviour meant he did not deserve his full salary for the final six months of his deal, plus bonuses. That was what he and his representatives wanted, but a settlement was eventually reached. Those close to the ownership have been keen to emphasise they took a hardline stance in negotiations in an attempt to protect the club and show that they were not a soft touch.

The short and pointed club statement on Thursday afternoon confirming Dyche’s exit, in which no thanks was offered to the former Burnley manager and his staff, spoke volumes.

Dyche may have helped save Everton last season at a critical juncture for the club, but he did not leave on good terms.

The response in the dressing room to his departure has been mixed. There are plenty for whom a change could potentially be beneficial. According to sources consulted by The Athletic, some players complained about the lack of guidance tactically and in training sessions, craving more detail.

Some attacking players felt they had too much defensive responsibility and were isolated, leading to slumps in form and confidence. Leading the line or playing on the wings were seen as thankless tasks. Wingers became secondary full-backs at times and were exhausted by the time they reached the final third.

Dyche’s man-management received mixed reviews. An incident during a mid-season trip to Portugal in March, in which he was rumoured to have jokingly slapped full-back Nathan Patterson, raised eyebrows — in terms of how events played out and how quickly it was leaked to the media. Dyche went on record to deny those reports.

Even his supporters would acknowledge Everton have regressed in just about every key performance metric this season.

Dyche has often had unwavering faith in his methods but seemed incapable of making the changes necessary to improve matters, particularly in the final third. Everton have failed to score in a league-high 11 games this season, and eight of their last 10 top-flight matches.

Since the start of the 2023-24 campaign, Dyche’s side scored 26 goals from open play, the lowest of any of the Premier League’s ever-presents in that time. The team with the next fewest, West Ham, managed more than twice as many (56).

Attacking patterns were hard to discern, beyond the basic ball up to the main striker. Shape, structure and hard work were often foregrounded to the detriment of other areas, even if Dyche has been right to point to a lack of quality in the final third. Simply, he appeared to have run out of ideas.

There will be relief on his side that it is now all over. But the legacy of his tenure and cost-cutting measures is a side that is fighting for survival and in urgent need of help.

Again, I take some encouragement from the professionalism of TFG -- 48 hours from the Dyche meeting to the announcement of his departure, just 36 more to officially replace him. (Contrast that with Moshiri requiring five weeks to sign Fat Sam after sacking Koeman.)

This has been a thoroughly miserable season, but with the managerial changeover and the return of three injured midfield starters, I remain confident we'll stay up. And that's all that matters right now.

Trouble is like all things Everton it's guesswork.

Like Colin #2 I'm not keen on the subtle digs at Dyche my guess is he said his piece Friedkin didn't like it and are trying to make him look like a quitter to save a few quid in compo. If true, not good.

Moyes has just said he needs to work with Thelwell so that solves that question.

By hook or by crook a few decent players are needed as a minimum if they don't arrive not much will change and Moyes will be another sacrificial lamb

Barry #5, by every credible media account, quitting is exactly what Dyche did. The Friedkins most definitely didn't like it, and according to the Boyland article they have already saved a substantial chunk of "quid" by facing him and his reps down to a settlement instead of just paying him off.

Not good? I think it's great.

Mark #3, that's my guess too. TFG uses the CEO model, and I expected them to name one promptly, which they haven't. It may be because they got pipped to the obvious choice, Souloukou, by Forest. And the sudden chaos surrounding Dyche took priority.

I think Dyche had runout of the will to fight. Being under so much pressure for a couple of years took its toll and that has been noticeale this season as he got motre and more defensive in his responses and was looking for others to blame.

I think he showed amazing resilience given the Premier leagues stance with us and the reduction in playing staff but on the other hand he was given some carrots this season with the aquisition of Mangala, Ndiaye and Lindstrom to name but a few and he got his way retaining Young who cost us a lot of points early season but has since been pretty solid.

I think the majority of us could only see one way forward with Dyche remaining and that was relegation, so he had to go.

Now some of us have issues with Moyes coming back as manager but the realists see that he was the best choice in the circumstances and is likely to get a quicker turnaround than any other appointment.

There is much still to do in bringing in coaches and some new players so we may have to be patient but if we get the goodison roar back that will be like a new signing.

Stop it Mike please.

By the time the "exceptionally well informed" Boyland published this, we had all already read it. He was simply regurgitating what Paul Joyce had already put out there. Your (regurgitated) story doesnt even stack up.

IF, as you tell us. TFG are a formidable, hard nosed, Take-no-shit bunch of MF's. Why would they give Dyche anything at all ?

I sincerely hope your version of events is not true, because if it is.The only people who have been "faced down" would be TFG. themselves.

Dyche is a simple journeyman footballer whose main quality is the recognition of how far hard graft can take you...And your telling us that the TFG group lawyers only HALF caved in ????.

I'd feel less anxious if you told me they were only "half" held up by the milky bar kid

Conor, assuming for a moment you are correct in your perspective (as opposed to most media reported perspectives, especially outlined by Mike in his response) that Dyche tried "the back me or sack me approach" then it was anappalling lack of judgement on his behalf. It make be the UK way of football management but it's certainly not the US way. Ultimatums to US owners nearly always end badly. Certainly it's clear that TFG had wanted Dyche to stay till the end of his contract, but in discussions with Dyche they clearly did not like or appreciate whatever Dyche said. Hence the total lack of appreciation for his past performance. Acrimonious is a term often attached to situations like this and one can see why, it quickly fell apart, back me or sack me was seen as a threat and there was ever only one outcome. In your scenario Dyche overplayed his hand, in others it was seen as a threat to the owners. It's all about perspective, Dyche will probably not do that again.
As you correctly say Moyes never had to deal with Moshiri and Kenwrights total mismanagement of the clubs finances but he did operate with strict and limited budgets, some would say he did it well, others that he lowered expectation of success and certainly in my opinion, his partnership with Kenwright saw the biggest decline in the standing of the club in generations.
So why have him back? You say there isn't any difference between the two, cut from the same cloth you say. I disagree, in the approach to winning most certainly, I have said a number of times that Dyche had set up his Everton team not to lose rather than to win. Moyes I think is different, he knows winning games is crucial. It's all about approach and getting the balance right. Dyche clearly didn't and allegedly admitted he couldn't do anymore with what he had and as you say, played his card out.
I think Moyes is a better manager, period. I don't like him for various reasons, especially his association with Kenwright and his role in the dismantling of expectations of our club, but as a short term option, I believe he will do ok.
It remains to be seen though, who knows..

Simon, Mike, good article and comments, interesting to see the different takes on how it played out. I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle but I agree with all of you in that Dyche got the mood music wrong and culturally stuffed up.

Christine

"An appalling lack of judgement on his (Dyche's) behalf " - You'll get no argument from me on that, mate.
He (Dyche) has gone from dreaming about the remote chance of leading the club to BMD. To worrying about whether a championship club will come in for him or not.

You know, Simon, Mike, You and Me, are not a million miles apart. We are all trying to piece together what REALLY happened. Thats not easy in the absence of any real evidence.
Anyway; Its all water under now. I personally don't think Moyes is better equipped for this job, but I will be there at the villa game willing him to prove me wrong.

BTW Christine; Lay off the Irish girl. Conor hasnt even posted on this thread.

Colin, my sincere apologies, my early morning befuddled brain misread or miswrote, or both.

I must remind myself to wake up properly before commenting!

Simon, I don't believe we have any real knowledge of what our “war chest” will be from 1 July. This is supposed to be the last season for PSR, so it is impacting this window, but next season is supposed to move to a revenue-based financial model.

The details of that model have not, as far as I'm aware, been finalised but the idea is you will be allowed to spend probably between 70% and 85% of your revenue on the Premier League squad and staff. Given our historically high wage-to-turnover ratio, that would seem quite limiting but with, hopefully, a step change in revenue moving to the new stadium and removal of higher earners, that position should be improving.

Colin, you stop it, mate.

As stated, I posted a few brief paragraphs from Boyland's article. It was a massively longer piece (~2,800 words) that included a depth of information that neither Joyce nor Hunter remotely approached. Boyland isn't the first writer out with Everton news, but he always goes the deepest, and nothing is "regurgitated" from anywhere else. The man does quality work that holds up as accurate.

And it's not my story or version of events. It's his. I just shared a few excerpts. Read the whole thing and judge for yourself if you don't mind the paywall:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6051934/2025/01/10/sean-dyche-everton-exit-friedkin-group/

Besides, you're in a dreamland world free of contract law if you truly believe TFG could have kissed off Dyche with nothing. Dyche had a binding contract that he very carefully did not resign from. TFG had no legal grounds to tell him to leave it all on the table and take a hike. Dyche's lawyers would have sued and won plus bad-faith damages.

As it is, he's reported by all three of the abovementioned writers to be unhappy about the settlement. We will never know if he got half or more or less, but aren't you pleased by his unhappiness?

Now I've never said a word about TFG being hardnosed and take-no-shit, just that they display professionalism (and how long have we gone without that in our boardroom?). We both think they got it wrong with Moyes, but I'd love to be sitting next to you at the Villa game in my old Chang shirt willing him to succeed. And debating with you along the way.

Very good article, thank you. Most of it very clear. I don't however understand why we'd only have a £50M war chest in the summer. (Under current PSR rules, I know even less about the new rules.)

Surely if our £63M loss is wiped from the reporting period, then we have the potential to use some of that and also we have increased gate receipts (£15M), naming rights (£15M) and lower interest charges (£20M). All of that together would surely mean about £50-£100M war chest, wouldn't it?

Christine #9,

"Ultimatums to US owners nearly always end badly."

These American owners at least. What reportedly (Gazzetto dello Sport) got De Rossi sacked at Roma was demanding the Friedkins choose between CEO Souloukou and him. They instantly backed Souloukou and she punted him.

Obviously not the same situation with Dyche, but you're right that it almost never pays to slap the boss's desk.

Logically, it would have made sense for TFG to keep Dyche in the role until May. The business case for termination didn't really stack up unless there was a heightened risk of relegation. Even a dreadful Everton probably stay up in this league.

They (TFG) would have wanted to get the leadership sorted and have a manager for the future ready to come in after a well considered process.

Dyche must have known that. There's no way he thought he had leverage for anything but an early exit.

And I believe that's what he went for. Whether because he honestly believed he couldn't do any more and took the decision for the good of the club, or because he feared relegation on his CV and wanted to jump ship to protect his reputation.

It really doesn't matter why he did it. What matters is that results were poor, the football was worse, and he's now gone. They've been denied the chance to make a well considered appointment so they've gone for a fairly safe one instead. I still think they probably view Moyes as potentially only being a short term solution, but you have to pay the going rate and that includes the length of the contract.

Thank you Simon for a well-written compilation of what has been happening.

Like what I posted at a separate thread: Moyes is a control-freak "DoF Killer" (Google what he did at West Ham). It is time to start paying attention to an eventual power struggle that he will start against Thelwell and his staff (IMHO, very unlikely that he welcomes the chance to work with Thelwell, given the "either my way or the highway" traits we know about him).

Fingers crossed that TFG, knowing the critical importance of the "General Manager (DoF) - Head Coach (Manager) relationship" that every US sports watchers would be aware of (Google what the highly decorated duo of Monchi & Unai Emery have achieved together at Sevilla & Villa), is not going to be swayed eventually by Moyes's hunger for power to unwind all of the hard work laid down by Thelwell (or his successor as DoF).

Otherwise, having my fingers crossed for hosting Premier League matches at the BMD in August.

Dupont, I thought that was an interesting part of the press conference.

When asked about working with Thelwell, he made it pretty clear that he will take his advice, take his support. There's no doubt in Moyes' mind regarding who will work for who in that relationship.

To be continued... no doubt.

Dupont, I don't see Thelwall vs. Moyes being much of an issue.

They'll sit down together, identify the positions that need strengthening and Moyes will give Thelwall a list of players for those positions and tell him "go do your job and sign them, if you have a problem I'll be at the training pitch doing my job."

Freidkin has made good in the bizarre world of American capitalism, regardless of the mega-damage such success usually delivers to the world beyond.

Up to now he's playing his hand according to the textbook on American capitalism to which Moshiri and his organ grinder paid tribute.

Hell, he's had yonks to appoint a credible board and yet we know nothing about them beyond a name or two. Seriously?!!

So now we again have Dour Davey to lead us to success, for once, at last, albeit hands tied behind his back still, as they always were under his self-serving supplication to Kenwright.

Wonderful.

Eric, you didn't waste any words with defining what will likely be how Moyes will handle it. No bullshit. Just Glaswegian "to the point" and effective.

No Mike.

Both Boyland and Hunter regurgitated what Joyce had said about the meeting. Almost word for word.
Here's the thing. none of them were at the meeting and none of them can offer a direct quote from anybody who was. Joyce's original report started with "its understood that" Understood by whom ? How ? Why ?

You're certainly right about one thing Mike. Boyland does really pad out this report, but he wonders away from reporting about the meeting and begins to list a load of things you already knew. Stuff you have read about dozens of time. Gems like - "Some of the attacking players felt they had too much defensive responsibility. They felt isolated"...That wasnt news being reported.
And what about - "Attacking patterns were hard to discern beyond the basic ball up to the main striker"...No shit sherlock !!!.
Boyland then goes on to "inform" us about a reported slapping incident between Dyche and Patterson in Portugal zzzz. He also puts up stats we see every day on these very pages. Come on, Mike. "Exceptionally well informed" ? You know a damn sight more about this club than this fella does.
Boyland isn't talking to you the Evertonian, Mike He is reporting to a wider audience. One that wasnt already aware of everything he said in this article.
I guess it all comes down to what we want to believe. for me, Dyches one saving grace has been his courage in the face of adversity and I don't want to believe he quit. I've had a gut full of employers being scapegoated as they leave this building.
In his his press interview yesterday. Davey Moyes told us he got the call on Tuesday. I wonder if that was before the meeting between TFG and Dyche, or after it.

Murky waters

Christine.

No apologies required. I was just pulling your leg mate