Everton's passive first-half problem this season

If looking for reasons for a slow start, then it has to be down to preparation, team selection and tactics which make us cautious and ineffective. The quality and approach of the opposition is significant too.

When it becomes a recurring issue, you can not really look beyond the manager. On paper, yesterday's starting line-up looked quite exciting but did leave a large hole in the middle of the park which would have been better filled with a combative and creative midfielder (Alcaraz).

It's always easy with hindsight but you learn from hindsight. And if the problem is recurring, then we (Moyes) are not learning.

We seem to give the opposition too much respect instead of concentrating on exploiting their weaknesses. We all know Moyes's appalling away record at Arsenal, 'Spurs, Man Utd and the RS and I've always thought that was the reason why. We were often beaten before the game started!

The recent first and second halves at Anfield were a classic Moyes.

Yesterday, we were so poor that he had to make early subs but often they're made far too late. He needs to get both his selections, tactics/instructions sorted asap because it's costing us points.

It's what happens when you have quite good players, vs top class players.

It is too simplistic to blame Moyes and, if you do, then you have to give him credit for the second-half change.

I think one of the problems is the centre-back situation with no Jarrad and therefore no pace.

Their natural reaction is to sit deep. I know Michael Keane has played reasonably well this season but we continue to leak goals with him in the side which, compared with Jarrad's games where we had regular clean sheets, is not a good situation.

One other observation is that, while Palace played 4 in midfield, we had Grealish and Dibling hugging the touchline; whereas, in the second half, we played much narrower, with Grealish and Ndiaye coming inside a lot more, so Palace couldn't dominate the midfield.

The games we have looked promising are when we adhere to a high press but I think our players also lack sufficient stamina to maintain that throughout.

We are so far off being in a position to challenge for the Premier League, it doesn't bear thinking about.

Moyes has always been great for this club, making us more than the sum of our parts.

Anyone watching the shambles we have been for 10 years couldn't but help to notice. Only Martinez got close but he did that with Moyes's team plus Lukaku.

Moyes has proven over many years that he knows how to make his teams competitive and hard to beat, and when he gets given time, he can bring in a few better players, which can make his mostly methodical style of play a little bit easier on the eye.

He never got backed by Kenwright but I saw something similar when he was manager of West Ham that makes me think he prefers to have a small squad of players.

I don't know this for certain but I remember saying to a few Hammers fans that they looked tired and I didn't think Moyes had changed because of this. They were gearing up for a two-legged Europa League semifinal against Eintracht Frankfurt and he was playing against Everton in a league game that meant a lot more to us than them, because they were already well safe and we were fighting relegation.

"We have been tired for a few weeks and he rarely makes any changes," was the reply, and this is something I will never be able to get my head around, because it just doesn't make real footballing sense to me.

I keep saying we have got some very good players in our squad now, but it worries me that so few players continue to be used. I think Alcaraz proved yesterday that, if the manager had more faith in a few of his squad players, he might just be pleasantly surprised....

I'm not saying No Moyes = No Problem and everything will sunshine lollipops and roses

I'm just a little amazed it's come as a surprise to some.

Fairplay to Moyes, he did what he was brought in to do, but really peeps, expecting any long term difference in methods from him is wishful thinking.

He is what he is and baring sending him for a trip along the road to Damascus, nothing will change.

Expecting Moyes to change is the ultimate triumph of hope over experience.

When he first came from Preston, we were told.

When he came to replace Dyche, some people told you the longer he goes on, the longer it will be a case of...

Moyes will be Moyes.

Edit; Anjishnu; cracking piece of International Break / Wind up Merchant / click bait filler.

Edit II; Tony @ 7, I've often though the less Moyes has to select from the less opportunity he has to 2nd (3rd, 4th, 5th?) guess himself.

One minute into the second half, we did. I just think that Barry and Dibling are too similar in their newness to be on the pitch together. We were carrying two passengers and we can only afford one at the minute.

I think both can be top players for us but starting then hooking both will have damaged them. Not a criticism of Moyes because he got us a win by replacing them. I hope he is bold enough to start one of them next time.

The real concern being that our manager wasn't concerned enough about that until changing it after 45 minutes, by which time it really should already have been game over.

Wingers, I remember them, beat a man, hit the byline and cut a ball back. Both Grealish and Ndiaye can hit great crosses but don't have pace.

In fact, we don't actually have a winger, but 4 who could play inside. Each bring different attributes but we need to realise Gana isn't the tour de force he was and rejig the middle of the park.

This style of formation does not suit young players and definitely not foreign players. Their Academy training regimes are set up to teach playing football, not to spoil the playing of football, which is the aim of Moyes's tactics.

Leeds, Liverpool, Wolves and West Ham have poor defences which has been evident in their subsequent results after playing Everton. Everton stayed in front of the defensive line and did not play to get beyond it in all cases.

Combined with an Everton defensive line that is too deep, because of a fear of defending on the turn creating space between Everton's midfield and defensive line, a simply worked opposition goal results.

With a goal down in the second half, Everton are instructed to push up, but it is only when substitutions are made that attempts are made to get beyond the opposition's defensive line.

Simply put, laying back off the opposition in the Premier League will cost you a goal. The pattern changes only if a one-off goal of exceptional skill is gotten and the opposition is not effective in converting their chances. By his negative tactics, Moyes is actually gambling on this every game.

The other disadvantage of these tactics is that it does not provide opportunities to develop younger players in the first team. Since Brexit, the Academies cannot recruit foreign players under the age of 18, this includes young players from the Republic of Ireland, even with the Common Travel area.

With relegation managers since Brexit, youth at Everton has not been given a chance. This is the main reason for the failure of foreign young players transferred in at significant cost for their age.

Against Wolves, Moyes showed by playing young players in his usual negative set-up that he did not have a clue how to develop such players. As Tony says, he likes a small squad of experienced professionals.

It is only with luck and exceptional ability that a young player will progress with Moyes -- and then only if they are sold on before he beats the ability out of them. A Messi would never emerge in a team managed by Moyes.

The whole Academy system has weakened in the UK and at Everton it never moved on. Foreign Countries are now putting more money into Academies and seeking Government help to do this. The standard of their domestic leagues has improved as a result. Recent reports from the Republic of Ireland will confirm this, as will the make-up of their National Team.

Unfortunately, Moyes is caught in a time warp as tactics and technique have moved on. His comments on Aznou really showed ignorance on his part. He will be loaned out with little contact from Everton and, only if he has the gumption to move onto a better youth system, will he progress.

Otherwise, he will be forgotten about. But hopefully TFG will look closely at young player development and ask questions.

I have nothing to contribute as I'm just a fan. It's good to see a player like Jack Grealish playing with a smile on his face.

I'm not a Moyes fan, he has done a good job, but I don't think he is our future.

And when they are started and are dreadful and are hooked, those same posters that were calling for them to play, say the manager (who they know more than) had the wrong team selection in the first place!

I'm glad I'm just a fan and know nothing, life seems so much simpler.

This proverb, attributed to Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr in 1849, conveys that outward appearances may differ, but the fundamental nature of things often remains constant.

Short Version: Moyes.

He most certainly has never been great.

“But we did win it!” -- was all that I needed to say.

I can fully understand the “mixed” feeling towards Moyes -- I was furious with him after the Wolves game... but I think people need to rein in the expectations and give him some slack. We're four league games in at our new ground and unbeaten.

The two games we won, we were arguably the 2nd best in the day. The two games we drew, we should've won. But we've got 8 points at home and are settling in.

The general view at the end of last season was that we wanted a stable season without the threat of relegation and to get used to our new home. Most people accepted 8th as the target.

The number of times I read pre match comments like “I don't care if it goes in off their goalie's arse so long as we win” but then derision when we actually fight back to win with proper play and goals.

And don't forget, Palace were unbeaten in 19 until they came to us (and, by the way, were wasting time from the very start).

Personally, I fully stand by Nil Satis and want Everton to win every single game of football we play. Realistically, that's not going to happen but I'll take these “smash and grabs” any day until we're ready to join the top table again. And we're not there yet, whether Moyes is in charge or prime Mourinho.

I'm not a big Moyes fan either... but he is absolutely the right man to have in charge for at least this one season as we stabilise -- and bury that “best stadium in the Championship” jibe.

Personally I hope we bring in Iraola next season and bury the “since 1995” shit. But for this season, so far, I'm loving it. UTFT

I think we'll see plenty more of these types of performances while he's in charge. It's like déjà vu all over again.

This puts the manager that replaces Moyes in a difficult position straight away. He not only has to manage change, but also manage backroom structural changes.

Moyes's use of the backroom facilities is limited to preparing his small selection of select players for his negative tactics. Development and even training are secondary. The orientation of the whole of Finch Farm just to do this is extremely expensive and not cost-effective.

There is no chance of Moyes putting high demands on Finch Farm. This is what I hope TFG are working on, and need to be for after Moyes. Moyes's glass ceiling is becoming more obvious. Thoughts of Moyes preparing Everton for the next progressive stage are ill-founded.

Due to being a goal down, we opened up and were lucky not to concede a couple of goals in the second half.

We got a couple of lucky breaks and won the game.

Short version:- Moyes will give you the percentage play.

He plays the odds. He's not going to come out against a good Palace side and go after them.

As I've said a few times on here now, we all need to be prepared for progression to midtable. Because midtable is an incredibly boring place to be.

Everton just have better players who were given the chance to play for a change.

Pickford, Garner and Grealish would definitely get in their team.

Not much to choose between the others.

How many football club fans, around the country, currently think their current manager is their man for the future and moving the club forward? I suspect not many.

Man Utd, Chelsea, Nottm Forest, -- just to name three, I could go on.

He's the perfect interim manager who can stabilise us, give us a solid foundation to build on, before he moves upstairs to the boardroom.

Whoever comes in after Moyes, I hope they can develop and improve on what we have.

After the debacle of having Benitez, Lampard (who seems to have found his level with Coventry), and Dyche (15 games without a win), we have a manager brought in to stabilize the club and get it moving forward.

Is he the long-term answer? No... and I don't think he or TFG think that, but he is getting us in a position where the next man to take over will find the club in a better place than when Moyes arrived.

Seems everybody wants Brazil 1970 football from a group who mainly have been fighting relegation for the last few years. Any good manager has to get the best out of the group and add some quality when we have the resources.

The Grealish signing has been transformational and maybe his signing will encourage other players who wouldn't have looked twice at signing for Everton now to think again.

Look, I am not saying that the football is always good or I agree with the tactics sometimes, but of all the games we have played in the Premier League this season, apart from Palace, we have been as good, if not better than, most we have played. How many times could we say that in the past few years?

But, I think it is ridiculous to be judging them so early. They are both relatively young and don't have years of experience in the Premier League.

Let's avoid applying the 'criticism' mindset to young players and focus on those who deserve it -- experienced professionals whose performance, attitude and motivation is unacceptable.

We've had plenty of those charlatans stealing a wage over the last decade.

"He is getting us in a position where the next man to take over will find the club in a better place than when Moyes arrived."

Déjà Vu all over again then?

My best mate is a Palace fan and I know quite a few of his pals who support the Eagles. They are delighted with Glasner -- FA Cup win, currently Top 6 and in Europe.

The messages I got claimed we were just bloody lucky on Sunday. I told them I disagreed as we took our chances and they squandered theirs.

They weren't having it though.

But they will eventually because that's how this game works.

Palace have just put two trophies in their cabinet for the first time in their history.

They are now competing on 2 fronts with a very small squad where they have a really decent first team and a big gulf to their bench (unlike us).

The average team that qualifies for the Europa League loses 9 points in the Premier League combining both. Look how we ended up with Koeman and Martinez in the same circumstances.

These are usually teams with better squads than Palace. What Glasner has achieved and continues to achieve is immense. At times, that was embarrassing just how poor they made us look and how well coached they are.

You can point to the table, you can talk about beating a side that went so many games unbeaten, but in the cold light of day, anyone with an ounce of sense will know that they only lost that game because midweek had taken so much out of them. Their players were visibly out on their feet.

I and other posters have real concerns with the drop off on performances from last season. We have had a lot of luck this season with the fixture scheduling and playing teams at the right time.

Posters think it's moaning but it's not. Sometimes you get breaks and sometimes you don't but, over the course of the season, things usually even themselves out. I don't see a Top 8 team that you keep shouting about.

"At times that was embarrassing just how poor they made us look and how well coached they are."

I don't know what game you were watching. Grealish was the best player on the park and all our players down to Coleman, who came after 100 minutes, had better games than the entire Palace side.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/clyqp4d3l25t#Everton

The rest of the Palace ratings are crazily low as well -- a lot of winner bias going on there.

Last week, Conor used those ratings to argue that we weren't the better team against West Ham. I agree with you, that they are insane.

That's according to Jack Grealish.

Were you expecting then a Top 8 team to emerge from the pile of rubble left by Dyche, from a manager you don't rate, just months into the job?

Is that why you've been so critical, you were expecting a push for Europe, and we're only in [checks] 8th place in the table?

I know you don't understand the point I am making but yes, the 2nd half we came at them, played well by upping the intensity. We did what we should have done from the start against a team playing away in Europe on the Thursday.

All credit to us for raising our game second half but no doubt in my mind, had they not had the game in Europe, we would have seen a different outcome. The dogs in the street could see how visibly shattered they looked.

Obviously not Grant, though, who thinks we dominated every game we have played.

Last season, Beto was a prolific marksman who was the least of our worries; now, he is only a bog-standard Premier League striker, thanks to Charly Alcaraz.

Whichever way the wind blows.

Dyche was able to effectively finish 12th the season before with our best player not able to get a kick now.

Moyes has the best squad since Ancelotti. We have a lot of tough games on the horizon and that's why this result was crucial for us.

The table looks good for us atm, and I hope posters are right thinking it's a fair reflection of where we are. My eyes tell me different.

“Grealish was the best player on the field.”

The game lasts for 90 minutes, close to 105 on Sunday, and Grealish was as bad as the rest of the team in that first half apart from Keane, Garner and possibly Pickford for a couple of good saves.

He did better but it was Alcaraz that changed the game with his input of energy, movement and passing the ball long and short and giving the midfield of Palace some fight for the first time in the game.

Grealish got the winner, which always helps in the MotM award, but he is still clinging to that left wing far too much instead of moving around the field and getting involved a lot more than he does. He's not a super star -- just better than some of the players we've got at the moment.

Other teams seem to be more energetic and full-on intensity with their prep. We just seem to amble around waving arms about.

I personally always warmed up like a Brazilian.

Get with the agenda and pay homage to Deity Davie.

Whoever it was decided to bring on Alcaraz has to take the lion's share of the credit for the win on Sunday.

45 points from 29 games if my figures are correct.

We may not look good on the pitch but the job is getting done.

I'd say it's hard to pick a clear best player out of Pino, Sarr and Ndiaye, who are all good.

I don't think Ndiaye definitely gets in the Palace first XI ahead of Sarr or Pino. And I don't think Sarr or Pino would definitely get in our side ahead of Ndiaye.

Your post suggests you disagree.

We were a bit lucky on Sunday but, from my seat, we were unlucky against West Ham Utd and Aston Villa who we did dominate.

And we thoroughly deserved the win against Brighton (I can't really speak for the away games as don't go away). We are massively better than the same time last season.

Crystal Palace do have good players, but Everton will finish higher in the Premier League than them.

Their manager has them playing at their optimum but being in another competition will stretch them as it was partly the reason they faded a bit in the second half.

If Moyes had Everton playing at their optimum, they would be better than them.

Steve (48) was talking about this season and the four home games we've played there.

Moyes is a cautious manager, that's not going to change.

Sorry, I will get me coat.

There's a good chance Moyes will over-perform the quality of his squad and finish above Palace.

Especially when you consider he took over a team that had scored 2 goals in 10 games.

There were a few shouts of "Who's the baldly cunt?"

The quickest and furthest he ran on Sunday was his 30-yard sprint after his goal and he looked like he couldn't breathe!

There is potential, but Moyes getting the optimum out of them is going to be a torturous task. But Palace being in two competitions will make it harder for the manager to keep the optimum going to finish above Everton.

I do not buy into the claim that Everton have a poor squad. Some may have a lack of pace, we may need a right-back, and some may seem not to be playing to the optimum they can, but I put the latter down to the way they are managed.

It could well be that down the line (not too far we hope), the middle of the park attacking options will become stronger. Alcaraz, Dewsbury-Hall and Iroegbunam could all improve to make Everton a better attacking team whilst Garner, Gana and Röhl could be better in the holding role.

We desperately need a better right-back as Big Jake (a little slow on the turn) is not suited there and should only be in the middle when needed; however, the options are limited, so we have to deal with what we have.

Alkaraz, played very well, but let’s have it right, Palace missed enough good chances to have been well out of sight, by the time Michael Keane, had to be replaced.

Tim made the difference because he got us the penalty, and the player he took over from in midfield, definitely helped to bring a lot more shape and balance to the team, when he slotted in at fullback.

I’d take 42 points and the FA CUP, right now, and if the players and manager, don’t realise how special this would be to us desperate for success Evertonians, then just win us the fuckin cup, and let them find out for themselves💙

Level with Chelsea and 2 points behind City. I can't stand being competitive, and winning games.

We arent in the top 2, so he needs to go. 10 points dropped already.

Absolute outrageous he's lost away to Liverpool twice, City & Chelsea. Weve got a great record at these grounds, and its usually a guaranteed 3 points.

Moyes out.

That post of mine was a joke in response to Conor using fan ratings after the West Ham game to make a 'point'.

Yes, fair enough — although you do realise I meant every word of mine.

Mike, the sample size is relevant.

It was possible to make a positive case for Sean Dyche based on his team's performance during the 2023-24 season, but not many supporters were sad to see him leave in January 2025.

I actually thought the manager did well in switching things around second half v Crystal Palace.

Unfortunately, I would need a frontal lobotomy to forget the terrible first half or the performances against West Ham, Wolves and Liverpool.

Do you feel that a sample size of 10 months is too small?
You prefer then to extrapolate from the first half of the last three games?

Interesting...

Everton needs to beat at least one of those teams to win a cup or get into the top four. Otherwise, what can only be achieved is a top-half finish and scraping into European Competition... and inevitably back to square one the following season.

This was achieved with an old stadium and underfunding. With a new stadium and refinancing, most people would expect better.

Notwithstanding that, like all managers, Moyes is only as good as his recent results and performances.

Nuno qualified for Europe last season. He was sacked after 3 games this season. He is one of nine managers sacked since the start of the season.

Moyes's decisions cost us points and momentum after the last international break. He has regained some with the last 30 minutes of the Palace game.

Hopefully, he won't make the same mistake again.

Most people realise other clubs have accumulated better players over several seasons. And with that, they'll finish higher in the league and win more matches.

We are 750/1 to win the league and 28/1 to finish Top 4. The bookies have 11 clubs they consider a shorter price. The football world consider the club way off, and a change of manager would do nothing to dispel it.

A new stadium is a nice day out, but it counts for diddly squat in terms of scoring a chance. It's the quality of the players that go past the white line, with someone relatively sensible on the sideline.

The transfer business was improved on selling anything that moved last couple of years. It has added youth, and some decent players. But has it made a sizeable dent in going into the positions? No chance.

One summer and a bit of hope was never taking us to the promised land. Hate to burst the bubble, but this is going to take several years of patience to turn this ship around. There is no magic shortcut.

Hopefully Branthwaite coming back will make a difference and allow us to play a higher line but, for me, we still look a team destined for around 12th or 13th and I'd be very surprised if we were to finish above Palace as Robert suggests @57.

I understand your viewpoint but, from my perspective, I have a different take. To be clear, when I was speaking about last season, I was talking about the post-Moyes timescale.

As you can see with this thread, many posters feel that there is a continuation of our impressive form and performances under this management. My view is there has been a clear differential between this season and last thus far.

Around this time last year (maybe a month later), we were still clear of danger table-wise but had a horrific December fixture list. For me, the warning signs were there for Dyche and damage had already been done (Southampton etc).

However, the table didn't reflect our peril. We actually didn't do overly badly considering the fixtures we had (post-December), but the table had caught up with us and Dyche paid the inevitable price then.

This season, with the squad we have got, we aren't in the same peril but I have a sense of déjà vu in that the table looks kind and has us well placed to meet our objectives. But, if we continue on the same trajectory, we are in a sense papering over the cracks and actually underperforming despite our lofty position currently. Thankfully these were a much-appreciated and important 3 points for us.

Moyes's decision making, team selections and game plan had been virtually flawless. Not only did the team prosper after the typical honeymoon bounce but, even after the natural dip, they went again.

What was so impressive was that our objectives had been achieved and there was very little to play for and it would have been understandable had we had the flip-flops on.

John, you have suggested we deserved to win the Aston Villa and West Ham games. I disagree.

Against Villa, we played well and were the better team but they were out of sorts and in the end were happy with the point. After 70 minutes, our danger men had run their race with especially Ndiaye and Dewsbury-Hall offering nothing, yet not only did we not change personnel, we didn't even switch wingers to target the full backs who were on yellow cards.

We could have won it, we should have won it, but in my opinion we didn't deserve to because we chose not to turn the screw when we had them where we wanted them.

Against West Ham, we were decent first half, which you would expect against both a struggling low confidence and Nuno team (likes to play on the counter). Yet, in the second half, we totally lost control down our right side which was such an easy fix.

You stop that you win the win the game, yet we didn't at any time address it and could have easily ended up losing on another day as their key men became more influential.

The Palace game, we got away with one. Again, Moyes starts with Ndiaye as a Number 10 (no problem) but, if you are playing with such attacking personnel, you can't set up so negatively, leaving huge gaps between defence, midfield and attack, and you certainly can't play passively.

Moyes, to his credit, addressed this at half-time and we got that bit of fortune with the Keane injury that ultimately changed the result and we were able to take advantage of their obvious fatigue.

The reason why I have been critical of Moyes is that we have needed to make hay while the sun shines. In the next 12 games before the half-way point we play 6 of the likely top 7 (the Sky 6 plus Newcastle).

In addition, we play Bournemouth, who are playing very well and could crash that at the expense of Man Utd.

Moyes's record against these sides isn't great and so I feel it will take a marked upturn in performances to get a decent return. As we seen against our neighbours, after 30 minutes, the game was over and so we need to reach the level we did at Wolves on a more consistent basis to upset the applecart.

As I have said consistently, we have a squad capable of finishing 8th at best and 13th at worst. I feel the chances of overachieving (ie, 8th or 9th) are slowly dwindling; hope I'm wrong but I don't think we will even finish top half without a serious improvement in performance, mentality, and optimising the talents within the squad.

I wish someone had told me, especially when we scored 2 goals in 10 games, I'd have been bloody furious with our team of slackers.

I see now your frustration with Moyes, notwithstanding he's got us in the Top 3 for results since he got here, that it's all verging on the unacceptable.

From that squad, he has Ndiaye, O'Brien, Grealish, Alcaraz, Dewsbury-Hall, Röhl, Dibling and Barry. Garner has also matured... and he could have kept Harrison if he truly believed in youth.

If you want to judge Moyes by a manager who had clearly lost the plot in his darkest hour (after doing a decent job in the preceding two seasons), then that's up to you.I will judge him by the tools he has now.

Roy Keane got relegated with Nottm Forest. I doubt he had thought when he joined Man Utd, "If I finish 16th, that will be a big improvement from last season." No, he had better players around him, so he had different targets.

I will ask you this since you never hold Moyes to account for anything:

Considering the success Beto had last season getting those little slide passes from Alcaraz and Garner, are you not surprised we are giving him the same service which didn't work under Dyche and plays to Calvert-Lewin's strengths? Considering his strength is one one-on-one finishing?

Do you agree that Alcaraz played his part in Moyes's excellent form and had a great impact off the bench against Palace?

Do you not feel against Villa and West Ham, when the game was there to be won, that he could have done likewise?

Against West Ham, their threat was down the right-hand side. Did you agree with keeping Ndiaye on that side when he kept losing possession, left O'Bien 2 on 1, and offered zero threat? Would you have done nothing, like Moyes did?

Dibling excelled under Martin when Southampton were in control of possession and proactive in games. He struggled when Juric and his predecessor set up negatively without the ball.

Are you not surprised that, in a game like the Villa one, he wasn't given a chance and Moyes put Ndiaye up top considering the full-back was on a yellow card?

Do you hold the manager to account for anything or should we just be happy not to be relegated?

ps: Kevin, under Dyche, we didn't try to score, so I don't know what relevance that stat you keep showing is intended for. If you play 10 men behind the ball and play Lindstrom and Ndiaye as auxillary full-backs, you ain't gonna score.

We've taken 6 points from 4 teams Bournemouth have also played this season. They've taken 7.

Spurs and Bournemouth are 2 of the in-form sides in the Premier League currently. Yet they've both only managed 1 point more than us.

Why are people being ultra-critical of Moyes's performance based upon an unrealistic view about how good either our squad is or our summer recruitment was?

I did not want him back, but he has certainly won me over with the transformation he has achieved since taking over from the master of alehouse football.

I feel sorry for those who cannot enjoy the football we are now seeing and, yes, I agree things could have been done better... but you could level that at any manager.

If we all stop the moaning and criticizing and get behind the manager and the players, we would be surprised at what can be achieved.

I refer back to Howard Kendall Mk 1 when the majority of the supporters wanted him out. Then, on a turn of luck and a change in the feeling, we went on to the most successful era in our history.

I have always said sacking people is the easiest thing to do but creating success is the hardest thing... and can only be achieved if everyone believes and supports.

However, I would suggest that anyone who enjoyed the abject surrender that was shown in the first half in some of our games this season is more to be pitied.

I said 'expect' (even meaning 'demand'), but your post is about the reality of the situation, which unfortunately I cannot find one iota of fault with.

I would take issue with "flattered to deceive" which has a negative context. I would say rather the opposite, that we have outperformed expectations with the quality of squad we've had available. I certainly didn't expect to be 7th right now, especially without Branthwaite.

But I wholeheartedly agree with your overall prediction. We are still two transfer windows away from having a strong enough squad to finish in the top half of the table and challenge for Europe.

We finished 13th last season (from memory) after Moyes did an excellent job of injecting some enthusiasm into a squad that was really struggling. That also represented significant over-performance.

Moyes hasn't managed to keep the same sort of form and style going into this season but we're still accruing points at a good rate -- and are likely to over-perform again.

On any metric you care to mention, we are firmly a bottom-half side. There's a good chance we'll finish in the Top 10 for the first time in years.

Does that excuse Moyes for things like the very passive approach to the opener against Leeds? No.

Does it give grounds for all the make-believe that often accompanies Moyes? Also no.

Is it likely that another manager could step in and address the issues that are holding the squad back? Not without spending another (fairly modest) £100M to £150M, no.

But obviously they have just lost their best player and had a net loss of £35M from their first team this summer (they did sign a kid centre-back who won't play) in addition to a net loss the season before.

I think, considering they have a bench where not one would get on ours, they have a handful of regular internationals on their books, they can't pay decent wages, and they haven't had a positive transfer window for 3 seasons, I'm getting down to the bookies as they must be total certs to get relegated.

I think you must be related to our manager with this "We are shit, everyone is wonderful" narrative you constantly espouse. I hope you were watching the ball our useless left-back played which turned the game -- as opposed to the best left-back in the country's defending for our winner.

Should have brought him on against us for the last 20 minutes. Poor squad management by Glasner.

We've been mostly timid, been outplayed in large parts at home, but the BMD currently lucky woodwork and unexplainable misses from opponents.

First half was dire against Palace. West Ham bossed the second half. Brighton? They must still wonder how they walked away pointless. Villa -- two teams not going for it.
7 games in is no marker to where we are at.

Powder puff strikers, pedestrian midfield, a defence which as I've said has been largely ... But hey, new stadium, and the atmosphere has been nowhere near a Goodison bear pit yet,
it'll always be far too echoey.

The acoustics for the away fans are amazing, by the way, sounds like they've got some in the South Stand Lower as well when they crank it up.

By all means read my posts properly too if you want to comment on them. That way, your responses will make more sense. 👍

But I also think the results have been better than the performances and that these things usually level out over time, hence the "flatter to deceive" comment.

Well I think most people would argue we have a top-half goalkeeper, a top-half collection of centre-backs and top-half wingers. We most certainly have a top-half bench.

Normally when posters criticise our squad, it's the full-back positions and strikers that most would point to. Yet here is an article (just one man's opinion of course based on form, consistency, experience etc) of his neutral view based on stats of our left-back.

20 Best Left-Backs in the Premier League Right Now (Ranked)

Even one of our regarded weakest areas he has Mykolenko as the 8th best teams left-back (2 from Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd) and your boy some 4 places worse off. Obviously Diouf and Truffert have been downgraded due to their Premier League experience and are clearly better players but even that suggests he's a mid-table full-back.

The only reason Dyche was here was cos we were crap, and got crapper whilst he was here. He had a purple patch which somehow got us to 12th in the season before he was sacked, but the vast majority of the fanbase are aware of the remarkable job Moyes has done.

To repeat, since he got here, he took relegation candidates to the form of a team 3rd in the Premier League. How about we get behind him instead of whinging every week? It's not even as if we have much cause, we get to watch Jack Grealish every week rather than Jack Harrison.

Moreover, when you read my posts, you can see where I give my unreserved credit to the manager, my unreserved criticism of him and others which I don't think he could do anything about. I may be wrong, I may be over-critical, but they are certainly my genuine beliefs.

However, I would suggest that a poster who spends every single minute sounding like David Moyes's Alistair Campbell, overplaying everything he does, framing every situation to elevate him, massaging stats to glorify him, jumping on stats which aren't true to heroise him and never once offering a negative connotation or suggesting he could have done better in any situation, is what I would see as being disingenuous.

For example, a stat which you jumped on in this thread is wrong as Moyes is joint 7th with Brighton who have played a game less since he came in, which is although excellent and certainly has overachieved is a far cry from the 3rd that brought so much joy to your eyes once you heard it.

The incredible Premier League table since David Moyes returned to Everton

If you accept that Moyes has been 'excellent' and 'over-achieved' since he came back, why are you so hell bent on slagging him off this season?

Maybe it's you that's wrong about how wonderful our current squad is and what we can reasonably expect from the games we've played so far this season?

We've only taken 1 point less from games against Wolves, Leeds, Brighton and West Ham than Spurs have. We've only taken 1 point less than Bournemouth have from games against Wolves, Leeds, Brighton and Liverpool. They are 2 of the Top 4 sides currently.

How well should we be doing?

This is a new season and I feel we have underachieved considering the fixtures we have had, the quality we have now available, and the favourable timing of playing our opponents (Aston Villa, Liverpool, Crystal Palace).

As I said, we have a more challenging set of fixtures on the horizon and, after we play those games, I would say the table will give a truer reflection of where we are at the half-way point.

Looking at the table now, how we are doing is irrelevant. (That's why there is the old adage about not looking at the table until 10 games in.) We uniquely played Palace at home after them travelling back from Europe on Friday then up to Liverpool on Saturday for their 3rd game in a week with the same players which is a rarity for them.

That's why who did what against teams we have played is irrelevant. Man Utd will play their 4th Top 6 side next time out, while we have only played 1 so far with 3 relegation candidates faced. We have a manager whose track record against these sides is quite pathetic given how he sets his sides up against them.

Posters focussing on last season, I would arguably be more impressed with Moyes than his most fervent supporter. This season, I haven't been impressed for the aforementioned reasons.

As a whole, has bringing back Moyes been a success so far? You would have to say unreservedly Yes. Has Moyes taken advantage of the opportunities presented to him this season? I would say No.

On the strength of the squad, I think a majority of posters this summer were agreeing that the 8th to 13th is a reasonable assessment of where the squad is at.

Taking one player in Jack Grealish, Paul Scholes is suggesting it's a travesty he was not called up to his national side, labelling him as "one of England's 3 best players".

We're all aware that there's tough games coming up and it's still the start of the season-ish. That also means it's a period of bedding in new players and systems, so slack needs to be given.

I was hoping we'd throw off the old stuff that keeps us stuck in the past; those songs, nepotism, terrible recruitment and charity contracts... but it's obviously going to take time for the Americans to get a proper grip.

Oh, wait, they haven't, have they? Not a hint of tackiness.

Mike #96, amen. I have never liked those two anthems (especially GOT) and hoped we had left them behind at Goodison to be scooped into the dustbin of history. No such luck, at least thus far.