“The entire VAR process was labelled “excellent” by former Premier League official Darren Cann, who reserved special praise for VAR Tim Wood for instructing Salisbury to go to the pitchside monitor”. “Brennan Johnson was in an offside position when the shot came in from Harrison Armstrong. Johnson then challenged Hull City’s Ryan Giles and therefore in law was interfering with an opponent,” Cann told BBC Sport. “An excellent and correct intervention from VAR Tim Wood, who was also right to instruct referee Michael Salisbury to go to the monitor as this was a subjective offside decision, rather a factual one.” That’s the official line. I think because he comes together with the 2nd defender, rather than just stood there, is the reason he is given offside. But that wasnt the reason we played poorly. What needed to happen yesterday at 2-1, was to match up formations and keep the shape. Their wing backs were causing an overload advantage, and we looked like we would concede more.

After all these years on TW Mike you should know the rules by now. Any time Tarkowski and Keane are played together they will ALWAYS be blamed for everything that happens on the pitch, regardless. And Moyes too of course.

If Johnson was technically offside then it was the correct decision Ian, but like I asked last night, why did the referee actually go to the monitor to check if the goal was offside? To the best of my knowledge this doesn’t really happen, and thinking about things logically, why do they need VAR rooms and all the technology, if they are leaving it up to the referee to make the call? Just put a television on the side of the pitch and give both teams two calls, like in tennis, and fuck the rest of the pantomime off.

Tedious, unnecessary, utterly out of synch, horrible to go backwards and forwards. We have yet to be told why this was done.

He won”t be Ian – he will get a one year extension.

Two of us stopped us from winning that match. AMN: brilliant delivery for KDH’s goal but completely at fault for both Hull goals. And Barry: how many chances does he miss, including an absolute sitter? Y Yeah PG you twat, but he scored and he gets himself into good positions. He gets himself into good positions and more often than not misses.

VAR is killing the enjoyment in football, when the disallowed goal went in i didn’t cheer, just waited for it to go to VAR.

We should not be surprised, when ruthless American businessmen start behaving like ruthless American businessmen!

Two very poor goals. Barry miss was shocking. But in the not too distant past we would have lost that. In 5th so can’t complain.

Well, I just learned that even if Maitland-Niles gives away two goals in 26 minutes with the EXACT SAME brainless blunder — a needless blind backheel — Tarks and Keane get the blame from Patric. If there was any secondary blame to that of AMN, it should be shared by Branthwaite (too easily beaten on the first goal) and Armstrong (who needlessly gave the ball away just prior to the second). How Keane and Tarks figure in is beyond me. But hey, in all of English League football, across all four divisions, there are only two clubs that are still unbeaten in all competitions this season. And one of ’em is Everton. That’s cool.

Moyes?

If he hasn’t lost it by now mate…and he hasn’t – he never will

And now it appears there’s a word limit to stop a person in mid fuckin rant

What we learned? Short version; Moyes will be Moyes. Did Pickford have a serious shot to save and yet still conceded 2 AMN wonder goals not withstanding we still don’t have a decent RB Branthwaite is playing with(in) his injury still and while he can up to a point get away with that at CB it makes him useless as any type of FB. Especially with Grealish infront of him who needs runners over and under lapping for him to the two things he’s good at…holding the ball and laying it off. He needs somebody similar to the Hull No.2 who was up and down busy all the Game – which rules out Branthwaite with his hammer. Grealish is a luxury and a wasted luxury without a proper partner. Johnson though, wtf! did ‘absolutely nothing’ except score and even then it didn’t count. Then we come to Barry; played terrible and scored a Blinder. All of the above in some way or another is a function of how Moyes sets up his 11. It appears we still have Sq pegs in round holes, playing favourites – and now I

what we learnt is we have a Flying Squad of arseholes in Stockley Park, who spring into action whenever a goal is scored, with the express intention of trying to find a way to disallow it. It’s fucking bonkers. How is this a gain? How are we benefiting from this system?

2 Pts thrown away

No Brendan #19 minutes ago Arena posts just take a little longer to appear. I can live with that.

Look back at the 2nd goal again. Yes 2/3 players may have missed tackles but the original giveaway of posession by Armstrong is the biggest error in that phase of play 100 percent and thats a fact

Just posted on the Moyes sympathises thread. Didn’t appear on the Recent Comments. Is this another Arena thing?

John on the way home from Hull in the car we where saying how a 3 or 4 goal win never happened. Johnsons goal should of stood he was never interferring with play only Everton get that dissallowed . Then both ends of the pitch killed us against a really poor team, the defending for there 2 goals was really poor not like us at all i think that kills us the most john. My man Barry missed a few and is very easy to blame and at times he’s frustrating but i know he’s coming good. John im not a Moyes fan at all but i can’t blame him for them goals it was poor by ANM and none of his mates helped him out even Pickford who i love wasn’t at his best for both goals . Keep the faith we’re moving in the right direction john

I suspect johnson was technically offside. Like the handball rule, it is a mess, in this case whether hull deliberately played the ball or not. As soon as I saw the keeper position on the replay, I thought we were in the shit. I could be wrong, but moyes 4th and 5th substitution occurred in the third substitution window. He could of brought the lads on earlier, but would have risked playing part of the time with 10 men away from home. In this case his subs were in play for 10 mins. Id think that was the reluctance to bring on alcarsz & dibling sooner. I dont have an issue with the substitutions. I do have have an issue with Branthwaite at left back, keane and johnson starting, and a squad ill prepared with two shit full backs and no cover, and one striker. This was 2 points dropped, in a championship quality game.

Or maybe it’s looking like Moyes is the manager most of us thought he was? Always plays his favourites and never wins anything. Another normal Moyes season in front of us

Tony # 2 Days ago It’s a different world when you’re in your 60’s and and minted…

The first half was a decent contest, and if var hadnt stuck an oar in we would have been ahead at ht, I cant see why they saw the need to interfere. A neutral would have quite enjoyed the game i think. The mistakes for their gifted goal were regretable, but our spirit and effort to get back into the game were exactly what you would expect. We truly deserved to win today, our only striker both frustrated and elated us, our squad were adaptable and grafting, we ended up 5th instead of 4th. A little disappointed, but realistically content, with a squad that is showing grit and collective team spirit. They have to shut out the noise, the city saga, the club sale, the challenges of a smaller squad, they pulled together and got an wway point.

It’s so very subjective this VAR, Andy. Why did the referee go to the pitch side monitor to check if it was offside? To the best of my knowledge I don’t think this has ever happened before? Doesn’t the referee get told if it’s offside or not? Aren’t they supposed to have better technology in the VAR room? And yet suddenly a referee is getting sent to the monitor to make a decision on wether a goal is offside or not. I initially thought Johnson was well offside and wasn’t surprised that the goal wasn’t given, but looking at it again, I thought his feet were in line with the goalkeeper.’s, trailing leg, so why did the referee go to the screen to see if it was offside or not, is the biggest question, imo mate.

I learned we’re in a better place after six games than many predicted. Long may it continue.

I’m sure I read one poster saying he never done enough before Clive, and I shook my head and stopped reading for a bit after that. Maybe he should have done better with his poor shot, but if I was getting another eight minutes, and then hearing the manager saying he thought his team were very poor today, then I would personally feel I was wasting my time if I was in Alkaraz’s predicament.

The first of their goals was a catalog / comedy of errors and Maitland-Niles’s poor challenge wasn’t the only one for second either. There were so many errors today I think it’s harsh to single out one player for flak just because his errors were in the build-up to goals. It wasn’t a good performance and so we didn’t deserve more than the draw even if we could have romped home with more clinical finishing. Still too many patchy performances to really have confidence in how this season will pan out. I’m firmly of the belief the manager needs to shake off his prejudices and start using his substitutes much earlier than he tends to.

A game we should have won and once again var has killed us, if thats offside we may as well pack in now, dreadful decision. I will say this though as poor as we looked at times today especially in the 1st half we are creating chances its just that Barry needs 4 to put 1 away, that said hes working his arse off. Given the Tarkowski Keane partnership which will always continue to leak goals im not too disappointed with a point considering they’ve beat United and drew with Villa and Chelsea away, so all in all not a bad day considering what happened at Analfield in THE game of the premiership era.

Bringing players on with 4 minutes to go every game is ridiculous they have no chance of getting into the game. It’s unfair on the players. Alcarez especially must be sick of it.

Johnson can’t find space and get in the game because as soon as we go forward he moves inside towards the defenders instead of staying wide in space. He may have been told to do that. He’s not playing as a winger.

I agree John. Moyes never goes for goal again after we have scored. We sit back and invite them to attack. We have seen it time and time again. Hull will struggle. 2-2 was a poor result for us if we are thinking of European football.

Im convinced that if we’d started with Rhol, Dibling and George we’d have coasted that game. Grealish Just stops the flow of the game in attack, Moyes just won’t give the above 3 an extended run in the team, when is he going to lose this safety first approach and stop playing his favourites.

The Moyes way. He said we were very very poor today. We were. He never recognises his own tactical shortcomings.

Maybe, but caught flat footed by AMN miss control and their guy had the forward momentum.

I learned the manager is still reluctant to go for the next goal after we score. He sits them in every time we score.,instead of allowing them to play in the fashion that created the goal.

Bollocks. Take a look at the first goal. Tarkowski was the one who lost possession in the Hull half. Ran back pulling caravans then completely quit (Not for he first time ) and left the goal scorer to walk in and pick his spot. Not sure where Keane fits into the Maitland-Niles/Tarkowski pantomome, but as usual people will try to shoe-horn him in and make him their go-to scapegoate. The only semi decent defender we had on that pitch today

Did you not think Tarkowski should have went with the runner who scored the first goal Ian

Yes go along with that and even though the threads are upside down and inside out there are quite a lot of posts today because football is back and let’s wait to see if there a big improvement in Toffeeweb very soon.

How now people still think it wasn’t the plan ? I didn’t think they were going to sell, but it’s now obviously what they bought us to do . I don’t get it, they are selling, there’s the proof !!! 2 years is not a long time when your dealing in multi million pound businesses. If they were here for the long term, they would have implemented a long-term strategy, on and off the pitch. Moyes is short term ! A safe pair of hands to keep the investment ticking over while we get the finance ready for a sale. Any owners with real ambitions to take us foward and compete, build a winning team would have seen the collapse last season and got rid!! They wouldn’t let him enter the last year of his deal. Now moyes is in a great position if no sale is completed quick. Mega money to stay, because he doesn’t know If new owners want him, but knows what manager is going to come here knowing the ownership is changing?

“I really don’t want to dig out Michael Keane, because once again he didn’t really do anything wrong.” Then why on earth say it? Both Hull goals, point out what Keane did to cause them.

Come on Ajay I agree with a lot of those ratings but Alcaraz didn’t do enough? He was only for the last five minutes and added time, he’s not getting a fair go by Moyes.

Definitely 3 points thrown away, when are we ever going to go at sides and believe in ourselves seems to only happen when w ego a goal down. Hull took 6 passes to get from their half to inside our box we took 8 or 9 just to get out of our half. You cant miss the guilt edge chances that Barry missed and hope to win games. Also I thought Johnson and garner were disappointing,. Well we wanted a forward looking full back which Maitland Niles is just a pity he cant defend.

Tarks and Keane no blame for goals today, it was largely the Maitland Nile’s show. We have no full backs. We have no back up striker. Dewsbury Hall was excellent. Johnson shouldn’t be starting, we have better options. We need to move the ball faster. Hull are a poor team, they’ll finish bottom half.

Dont think you can blame keane for the goals. I wouldn’t have started him, but he wasnt at fault. Maitland niles was at fault for both goals. Really poor play from him. Nice assist today and a great goal agsinst United. But he looks cheap for a reason. Johnson was non existent. The team gave away the ball for fun, and lacked pace in key areas out wide. The lack of true quality full backs is proving costly. 2 points dropped. I hated watching it.

Agree. And our nitwit fans who harp on about City breaking nefarious rules that were set up to exclude not just City, but teams like us as well… what do they want, red ribbons on the PL trophy forever?

Cheats never prosper 😁

I’ve long been in favor of getting in a better CB than Michael Keane. But, O’Brien can’t move a guy who is 34 in a couple of months, and might also be the slowest CB in the Prem. Keane was absolutely nailed to the bench, once Branthwaite came back from the Eredivisie. When Jarrad went down, given the choice between Keane and O’Brien, Moyes chose Keane. This is O’Brien’s third season with us and Moyes’s third season with O’Brien as a player. O’Brien still hasn’t even got himself to third choice at CB. It’s looking much more like O’Brien’s not that good a player than anything else.

It was 2 points dropped, we should have seen out the victory. Maitland-Niles had a shocking game. Johnson has proved to be a poor acquisition- now I can see why Crystal Palace wanted to get rid of him. For his sake, I hope he is rested from the starting XI and give him an opportunity to get back his form. I would start any of Rohl, Dibling, George or Alcaraz in his place.

Yes I have to agree, it was a second booking but I didn’t think it merited a yellow and it changed the game when Liverpool went down to ten men although Docu coming on for Ndaiye also helped to change the game because Liverpool just couldn’t handle him. Van Dyjke made a really nasty challenge to get his booking.