Fans Comment
Peter Fearon, James Brand, Brian Parker, Andrew Loomis

The Mother of all Derbies
27 April 2005

The failure of Chelski to put a couple past Rafael Beneathus’s men puts the nightmarish prospect of a turf war over a Champions League spot that much closer.  Hopefully the Russian Rovers will recover their scoring form before they play Bolton Wanderers.

What worries me about what happens if Liverpoolwin the Champions league thing is that the fix may already be in.  The FA has a tendency to decide controversial issues behind closed doors in smoke-filled rooms with whispered conversations and a secret handshake.  With the FA run by a Kopite, there's even more cause for concern.

The FA should set down their criteria and allow some orderly process to take place so that all interested parties — Liverpool, Everton, the Premiership and whoever else — have their say.  And the decision should be made in the clear light of day.  The trend in recent years has been away from giving special recognition to title holders in the subsequent season.  The longer tradition has been to start each season with a clean slate.

Fifa no longer recognizes an elite status for the World Champions deserving of a free pass into the World Cup Finals.  If Uefa had wanted to recognize a special right of the Champions League winners to qualify in the following season’s tournament, they would surely have done so in black letter rules.  Instead they left it to the discretion to local Football Associations, a clear indication that they did not believe in a cup holder’s automatic right to defend their title.

And if the point is to recognize the European Champions as an elite force with a right to defend their title, why put them in a pre-qualification group?  It makes no sense.

The Football Association has long declined to give any special recognition to title holders.  The FA Cup winners get no special recognition the following season, such as a bye into the Fourth Round.  In fact, in the unlikely event that a team from a lower division won the FA Cup, they would not even get a pass into the Third Round.

The old Cup Winners Cup holders did get to defend their title the following season, but there was an interesting and little-known rule in that competition that may be brought out, dusted off and used to solve the looming conundrum. The rule stated that, if the Cup Winners Cup winners qualified for the Champions Cup, the defeated finalists took their place; and if both qualified for the Champions Cup from their respective countries, the defeated semi-finalists played off for the extra place.

So why not a two-legged derby play-off for the fourth Champions league spot?  The television audience would be tremendous – and profitable for both clubs.  It would be a chance to show the Milanese how to stage a European derby without a civil war breaking out.

They would be nail-biting heart-stopping two-pairs-of-underpants games with half of Merseyside dancing for joy and the other half in tears.  In other words, it would be classic.  The mother of all derbies.  And if this season’s league results were to be duplicated, we would go through on the single away goal rule.

Peter  Fearon

What about our apology?
27 April 2005

I couldn’t help but cringe at the recent display of remorse shown by our loveable neighbours across the park.  I’m not going to delve into the mindless and age-old “murderers” chants that have echoed around the terraces on derby since the Heysel disaster.  Rather I would like to concentrate on moving forward and building bridges. 

Since the atrocities of that ill-fated European Cup Final, Liverpool Football Club has done little by way of redemption.  As a club, and indeed ambassadors of English football as any team representing the English league would be, they have scarcely made an attempt to ‘put right the wrong’.  So after the recent charade at Anfield which can only best be described as a publicity stunt, where our dear neighbours tried to ‘bury the hatchet’ with an exuberant apology to Juventus Football Club, I was left a little confused. 

Whilst Liverpool were dishing out apologies like sweets to our Latin counterparts, surely they should have taken a look across Stanley Park and issued another!  Was it not Everton FC that also suffered from the sordid behaviour of, granted a minority, but nonetheless enough to cause a blanket ban on English clubs in Europe?  Liverpool FC should continue their course of redemption by issuing an apology to the other English based clubs that suffered at the hands of their reprehensible course, starting with Everton.

Surely, the best way to ‘put right the wrong’ would be to consent to Everton’s position in next seasons Champions League should Everton finish 4th and should Liverpool win the European Cup.  We have grown accustomed to the FA’s reluctance to make a decision that will cause a conflict so why don’t Liverpool FC make it easy on them and make the decision for them?  Of course this will never happen- too much is at stake.  But this issue should certainly make the FA’s decision, indeed if it even comes to making a decision, a whole lot easier.  Granted, we had a better side back in ’85 than we do now and fans will always nurse the wounds of ‘what might have been’ but surely this will attempt to the build the bridge that Liverpool burned twenty years ago. 

James Brand

Our enemy's enemies
28 April 2005

The continuing debate about whether Liverpool (by winning the Champions League, but finishing fifth or worse in the Premiership), will deny us our spot in next year's tournament is making me lose sleep.

My concern is that as long as this argument is seen as a squabble between the two Merseyside clubs, the more Liverpool's PR machine and Barwick's control of the FA can spin things their way.

What we need to do is to test the validity of Barwick's and Beneathus's impassioned pleas that a “title holder should be allowed to defend its title”, by getting those terribly nice chaps from Highbury and Old Trafford involved.

If, as the not-so-independent Head of the FA believes, there is a "right" to defend a trophy as holders, then so be it.  But this means Liverpool aren't trumping FOURTH place, but FIRST!

The logic of Barwick's argument is that as holders Liverpool take one of England's AUTOMATIC places as a reward for winning the trophy.  That means (if the Premiership ends as most of us imagine), Chelsea taking the second automatic spot and Arsenal and the Mancs, who are currently battling it out for second, having to make do with pre-qualifying.

If Barwick then says that a holder of a tournament only has the right to "pre-qualify" for next season's tournament, then his whole argument rings completely hollow.

How do you think our enemy's enemies from North London and the wrong end of the East Lancs Road would react to news that the Head of the FA wants the team he supports to take the automatic qualifying place that they're so busy fighting over?

Thought so.

I've emailed the FA for clarification (and for that matter Arsenal, Man U, newspapers and football websites to stir things up) but haven't had a reply from Mr Barwick yet.  I'm not holding my breath.

Brian  Parker

Liverpool FC Must Not Be Given Preference!
30 April 2005

Instead of focusing on the Champions' League, let’s take a quick look at the competition we have already qualified for- the Uefa Cup.  At this point in time, Parma has just tied 0-0 with CSKA Moscow.  Let’s say Parma secures a win on the trip to Moscow and then goes on to beat Sporting in the Uefa Cup final.  According to the mentality of Liverpool supporters, Parma should automatically qualify to defend their title, correct?

But look at Parma’s league status — near relegation!  What if Parma is relegated?  Should they still be allowed in the Uefa Cup?  Of course not!  They were not successful enough over the course of the season to secure qualification.  So what if they played their hearts out during European competition — they performed terribly in their league.  If Liverpool wins the Champions' League (which, I hate to say it, is still a possibility) and is allowed to qualify, a dangerous precedent is set.  All a team would then do is focus on a successful European campaign with little regard for the domestic league.  If this precedent is set, teams like Parma could win the Uefa Cup year after year, yet potentially be relegated each season.

To play devil’s advocate, I do see the logic in people like Big Sam and Raef saying that the Champions should have the opportunity to defend their title.  However, the Champions' League is a competition of teams who have performed well in their respective domestic leagues, not a competition of teams that solely perform well in Europe.  Teams in the Champions' League must be well-rounded teams that can achieve a top-four (or higher) finish in their domestic leagues and withstand qualifying rounds against other top teams from other leagues.  This criterion is what makes the teams in the Champions 'League top notch — not just the ability to focus on one competition only.

Allowing Liverpool to qualify for Champions' League play ahead of Everton would be a terrible mistake that could damage how teams play in domestic competition.  The inconsistency of teams like Liverpool and Parma should not be rewarded with automatic births in continental competitions.   I am proud to know that the team I support has qualified for European competition through hard work, consistent performances, and dedicated team spirit.  It would be a shame if Everton lost out on Europe’s highest club competition to its arrogant, inconsistent neighbor.

Andrew  Loomis

"Fans Comment" articles are submitted by outside contributors to ToffeeWeb. The views contained therein may not correspond with those of the site owners. Editorial policy

©2005 ToffeeWeb