VIEW FROM THE BLUE
Responses to 'The Loop' debate
As expected, the examination of the "tunnel loop" site as an alternative to Kirkby or staying at Goodison Park has provoked the same mixed reaction — running the gamut from outright derision to unbridled enthusiasm — that greeted Warren Bradley when he proposed the location the week before last.
The article was a response to repeated assertions on various message forums and websites that putting the site off Scotland Rd forward as an alternative was ridiculous, a non-starter, a total red herring. I wanted to demonstrate that the site could sustain a 50,000 stadium development, that its apparent access limitations could be addressed, and that ways of funding the construction through a wider regeneration scheme were possible. I never proclaimed the "tunnel loop" to be the silver bullet — maybe the piece should have been entitled "The Loop Could Be Done" — because I don't by any stretch of imagination have most of the answers let alone all of them. And how could I?
As many of the reader comments observed, the piece is littered with ifs, buts, maybes and potentiallys but that's because I'm not privy to the financial or urban planning details being discussed around the potential for this location and never pretended otherwise.
I'm not an architect but the fact that Trevor Skempton, who is one by trade, believes it is viable and that Bestway's Head of Property, a self-described "developer", believes it's viable tells me that a stadium could be built inside the tunnel loop.
I'm not an economist but both the Kings Dock project and the Kirkby Project — both of which involved a manageable contribution from Everton FC — tell me that a funding package involving the tunnel loop site and the area south of the Kingsway could be put together to make the loop location viable.
Your club have presented you with just one option on the Kirkby Project ballot and have provided no evidence to suggest that they have given the sites put forward by LCC more than a cursory look before ruling them out due to the lack of a commercial partner. Furthermore, they have been locked in an exclusivity agreement with Knowsley Borough Council and Tesco since December, prohibiting anyone from engaging in discussions with them about proposals for alternative sites, presumably until after the upcoming vote.
Your local media has been all too keen to push the Kirkby option on the club's behalf but no one has seriously investigated the viability of a site like the "loop" and asked, "would that be a way to keep Everton in the city if the right commercial partners and funding options could be found?"
In this vaccuum of serious discussion of viable alteratives, can the fans really say that when it comes time to mark an "x" on their ballot paper that all options have been exhausted? And does it not behoove a site like ours to give a voice to those who have heavy scepticism of the Kirkby option, who be heartbroken if the club left the city and feel like they are being railroaded into a quick fix when other altenatives might exist?
It may yet prove that those of us who believe that the "tunnel loop" is a viable alternative are naïve in the extreme and that we've had the wool pulled over our eyes by a council desperate to save face — although you'd have to question why Mr Bradley would put his political career on the line and risk alienating half of the city's voters by seeking only to derail the Kirkby Project and then having nothing to offer as a contingency. My sense thus far is that Bradley and LCC are serious about delivering an alternative proposal — and you're free to speculate to what ends — and that Bestway are not mere pawns — willing or otherwise ?in a game of political posturing, wasting precious time and resources coming up with a dead-end proposal that would never come to fruition.
In the words of the afore-mentioned Head of Property, Malcolm Carter, "I come at this from a neutral perspective and with an open mind and an open heart." He and his firm may stand to gain from any stadium project for Everton FC but they're not dependent on it by any means. The site they currently occupy already serves them very well.
This is an emotional and divisive issue — the future of our club is dependent on its outcome, after all. It's quite possible that you will mark your ballot without knowing all the facts about any of the options that exist, Kirkby included. Fans should also prepare themselves for the very real possibility that a clear picture of how a potential stadium at the "tunnel loop" will be funded and by whom may not be available to them when it comes time to vote.
That will make the decision all the more agonising and difficult — and it may benefit you to delay marking and posting that ballot as long as possible — but your gut instinct will probably tip you either way.
Is the "tunnel loop" location ideal? Of course not, but in their current state Everton as a club don't have "ideal" available as an option anymore. "Ideal" was the Kings Dock. "Ideal" is Liverpool's "New Anfield" development. Kirkby offers land and funding but comes with the trade-off of being outside of Liverpool and 6 miles from the club's roots. If you don't care where Everton play, then you already know how to vote.
The Scotland Road site is in the perfect location in that it is in Everton ward, close to Liverpool city centre and in an area ripe for the next wave of urban regeneration. But it comes with significant trade-offs, not least the tight dimensions of the site and the fact that it is surrounded by roads. If you believe that these are just obstacles that can be overcome by some of the suggestions made in the article (does having a road running under the stadium bother Manchster United?) and some architectual imagination, if you believe that Everton belong in Liverpool, and if LCC can deliver a solid financial proposal then you know which way you want to vote.
Ultimately, we as fans can only speculate and muse about possibilities and that is all the article set out to do. The onus on proving that the "tunnel loop" or any other site in Liverpool is viable rests with Liverpool City Council. The onus for providing solid cost estimates and long-term benefit projections at Kirkby is on the Everton board.
The decision, however, rests with those eligible to vote and the more information from which to draw and to make that decision the better.
Reader Comments
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I for one found the Kirkby project a pleasure, but that was because I felt we had no choice. But to play back in Everton, surely that is the only thing that matters, the sweet pill that we are home at last. In the vicinity of the very thing that iconised our club.
For me that is what’s important, plus the benefits of being right in the heart is immense.
Lyndon, you know me, I am right behind you on this one.
show me a stadium design and a costing and a business plan for how it is funded.
The danger is voting No to kirkby on the basis of wanting to find out more about sites such as the loop and then having no kirkby or no nothing when we find out the loop isnt viable.
Will we be 5 years further down the road still in goodison with costs 5 years more expensive (for land appreciates higher than inflation) saying "damn kirkby was the solution" ala king dock like we do now?
It should have read, why do Everton go for the Kirkby option instead of the Loop? I can only guess the answer lies in hard cold cash or the lack of.
That is the whole issue in a nutshell, John. I wish I could have given you all those important details but, like I say, I don’t have them and it’s not up to me. It’s now over to those who do to demonstrate whether it’s viable or not.
Surely the obvious reply to this dilemna is to postpone the vote a limited time until a proposal is on the table for the Loop !! What’s an extra 2 months to the future of the club in order to make the RIGHT choice, indeed to even HAVE a choice.
Everton’s coming home. :-)
Everton fans: That cake is shit, it’s a mile too far away, it isn’t in a landlocked roundabout, we don’t like your suspicious bread and jam thankyousoverymuch. EVERTON TILL I.... oh we’re dead!
The scarce resource is MONEY (i.e. funding to build a stadium). It is not LAND (i.e. a place to build it).
This is why all the excitement over the Loop is so misplaced. Kirkby is an option for Everton because it brings money - Tesco and Knowsley pay for the land and the stadium.
The Loop is only an option for Everton if somebody shows up willing to pay for the land and build the stadium. Nobody has. Otherwise, like any piece of land in Liverpool it is just that - a piece of land. Therefore, without funding, the Loop is not a meaningful option.
What those who are truly against Kirkby should be arguing is not -"look there are other sites!!" (of course there are, and BK and KW would not deny it). They should argue: "Kenwright should sell the club as soon as possible to someone else who has the money to pay to build a stadium on another site".
Without that new owner, all options other than Kirkby truly are no options at all.
A "no" vote to Kirkby may well make BK’s and KW’s positions untenable, and trigger a situation in which Everton could be snapped up by whoever fancies it. This has attractions, but also runs the grave risk of throwing Everton into utter turmoil, in which casualties could also include Moyes and a number of our best players.
Personally I believe Everton’s best option now is to build the site in Kirkby, and then for Kenwright to move on for a new owner who will inherit an extremely attractive top tier club with a new stadium, fine squad of players, and virtually no debt.
A new stadium makes us viable for investment especially with minimal debt
What if we vote no to Kirkby? As I understand ti won’t be something we will be able to go back to - you see my point I know you do.
You are spot on - "It?s now over to those who do to demonstrate whether it?s viable or not"
If it is demonstrated to me that an alternative package - a real package not pie in the sky- is actually on the table, or will be inside a couple of months, I will vote No to kirkby... if its not I will be a reluctant yes voter still.
To all those saying "everton should be on the loop or walton/everton etc etc not kirkby" then I think we are way past that arguement now. We all know that, but its no good saying it and not having numbers to back it up.
You are obviously an intelleigent guy your posts are excellant but the Loop is a none starter for me. I know you are desperate to keep Everton FC out of Kirby. I live in Wallasey and have just driven through the tunnel and the site is rediculously unsuitable. Its far to small for what we need.How the hell I’d find a parking space and a Pub for a prematch pint beggars belief.I travel through the Kingsway to every home gome and the traffic is very heavy both going to the game and returning.There are a large number of Evertonians going to the game from Wirral and North Wales, don’t forget. Your claim that most match going Evertonians live within walking distance of the ground is a gross exageration, I for example park 10 minutes walk away from the ground because you can’t get any nearer. I suppose most fans do the same.Kirby looks good to me, parking. Pub etc. LCC are trying anything at the 11th Hour when they have years to produce a suitable deal for Everton, which they have abjectly failed to do.The Stanley Park issue really sticks in my throat, As it does with most blues I talk to. Why can’t they put us in the park on our side? Liverpool have got the Car Park at the top end we should be able to use the other side. Has anyone asked Bradley about this, there’s more space there than at the Loop.This KOIC business is pretty pathetic Walton is on the outskirts of an arbitary boundry, its rundown and neglected. When we played Necastle at home last season one of their supporters remarked on how shabby the area around Goodison was, the area around the Loop is even worse even though it is nearer the City Centre. How long is it going to take to redevolop the area? where’s the planning & the money.
Lyndon I don’t doubt your sincereity but you’re pushing to hard and I doubt if you have actually been through the Wallasey Tunnel recently ,if ever. I’d love to meet you in Wallasey before the Match and take you through the Tunnel ( there & back) just to show you what its like on Scotty Road on Match Day.
Gillet and Hicks have put themselves and LFC the best part of 300m in debt to build ’The Toilet Bowl’, so unless we are prepared to do the same and then that would hit our revenue’s year on year with interest payments goign to the bank rather than to the manager to fund players.
Same with Wally Hall Park, even if the council give it to us our problem is we dont have 80-100m to build a stadium so we’d have to borrow it and then have to add an extra 6-9m per year in just interest payments to pay for it.
Kirkby gives us a new stadium costing us 15m total. Building one ourself in the park would cost roughly 6-9m per year every year just in interest repayments... btw LCC wont give us the land anyway will they.
What if when Everton mentioned the move LCC decided to get their arse into gear and start looking; let’s face it they aren’t going to do the Bestway deal/discussions over night - this would have taken weeks/months. Perhaps now LCC are playing the game - waiting to announce the ’viable’ alternatives when they would have the biggest impact - on the eve of the kirkby vote. I think LCC do mean business and I think we’d be daft not to look into the loop in more detail.
If we say no to tesco is it a no forever, or could we come back in a few months when the loop, or any other site, has been investigated further?
Such a possibility should not be ignored with a yes vote.
Another excellent article. I only hope enough Evertonians have the courage to vote no as the propaganda from Everton, and the local media appears to conisder people who dissent as sentimental fools who have little intelligence or business savvy. I would like to be presented in detail what Tesco are going to gain from this, they are hardly the most benevolent of companies. Perhaps because their boss is a blue he is doing it out of the goodness of his heart with no thought of future profit margins? mmm think not. As for Kirkby being a boom town, and being more scouse than the King Dock (Whatever that means) I am left speechless. Slagging off Liverpool FC does not help, becuse like it or not they are going to have a state of the art ground in Stanley Park (Where we played first) and if we go to Kirkby they will be the only team left in the City of Liverpool (Fact). What a way to treat the first club of the City for 129 years, what will be on the badge then (Prince Ruperts Keep? or a Tesco voucher!)
Cllr Bradley has openly admitted he’s not prepared to saddle the taxpayer with a £50m debt.
So what does the ’Loop’ proposal actually offer?
There are plenty of attractive locations within Liverpool but until Everton can afford to buy a location and fund the building of the stadium they are all moot proposals.
Kirkby remains the only realistic option!!
I’m happy to be proved wrong and I hope Fridays meeting can provide some meaningful insight as to how viable the ’Loop’ proposition actually is but I remain very sceptical.
We can build a giant car park under the stadium no problem.park by the canal at the eldonian area ,in the city if you wish.or better still if you live in a 30 mile radius.leave the bleeding car at home.you may even enjoy the experience of mixing with fello everton fans to and from our new home.By the roundhouse where we belong.NO TO KIRKBY FOR ME!
The Loop site is dire. It is isolated (OK for a stadium though) and will require bridges to it over the tunnel entrance road. A 50,000 seater stadium? What a joke. EFC need 70,000. When EFC do well they flock in.
Better site needed like Garston Docks.
Need to do better.


1 Posted 30/07/2007 at 20:32:23
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Let common sense prevail, vote no and make the board pull their finger out and get their sct together