b) The 'bipolar' approach highlighted by Alan (#3) has been a sad aspect of ToffeeWeb over the years and typified by Richard Dodd and Tony Marshy as our pantomime dames, but it gets the debate going until Ken usually brings his commonsense to the fore.
c) We are a great club with a proud heritage and great fans who deserve better. Once bitten, we are with the lads for life (no glory seekers here ? Labone's famous quote remains completely true!)
d) I have lived through the glory days of the late 60s the depressive 70s (yet I saw some cracking games during Lee's tenure!), the resurgent 80s (was our ECWC squad our greatest ever? ? bless 'em), the lost years of the 90s (Joe Royle's "Dogs of War" brief spirit a fading memory...), leading up to the positivity that Moyes initially brought to the 2000s. I saw my pride in our club increase and, while the lows still outnumbered the highs, we still had much more to enjoy at times.
e) I have always seen Moyes as an honest and dedicated man with his heart in the right place; while he hasn't been as starved of funds as some fans might suggest (and his transfer successes only just sightly out-balance his failures over the seasons), my expectations of money from Blue Bill's pockets have been more realistic than many, and so my expectations from Moyes have been more considered in the transfer windows.
f) I didn't like the Kirkby shambles at all, and bitterly regret our lost opportunity at the Kings Docks, but I have previously been sufficiently forgiving for it not to erase my positivity for my wonderful club.That's me ? a fairly typical fan over the last decade. Maybe more aligned to the silent majority who turn up at Goodison or make it to away games. Less forgiving than the BlueKipper team, but less critical than the average ToffeeWeb poster......So when I say that I'm now absolutely gutted and depressed by the way our team is currently being run, managed, motivated and controlled.... and the way our players are playing, I hope it signals a bit of a watershed for many of us fans who have tried to remain pragmatic in recent seasons.The West Ham game has just done it for me. Even a decent (i.e. lucky) run in the second half of this season will not take away my feeling of disappointment and disillusion at how stale we now are as a club.I don't know what Bill is now doing for us ? I don\'t see any vision or spirit ? I see our manager seemingly bereft of ideas, tactical nous, motivational skills, media communication savvy... and not even knowing what our best team is (even when it is fit). I see once great players playing like pale shadows of their standards of previous seasons, and a dressing room that must not be as harmonious as in previous seasons. The welcome fighting spirit from the likes of Cahill, Baines and Neville must be applauded, but I sense too many cuckoos in the nest, or even deadwood that would not have been allowed to hang-around in previous seasons either.Like many, I just don't know what to do. Our squad is better than our results have demonstrated, so surely the managerial team must take the blame for this season (I'm not privy to training sessions, but surely the lads do play together from time to time!!!). I'm not convinced a new manager will change things (although looking at what Coyle and Holloway seem to get out of lesser players gets me wondering more these days!) but if Moyes can't recapture that fire and vision of old, then surely he needs to hold his hand up now and concede that he has reached the limit of his abilities. I don\'t expect our team to win much in the years to come. Football has changed over the decades and unless we have a similar revolutionary change amongst our investors and board, I'm not sure we'll ever challenge like we once did (bar the odd cup run, derby win, Sky 4 upset etc.), although I expect our record top flight residence never to be threatened by the Arsenal.
However, I want my club to go out on that pitch to the Z-Cars theme with a bit of fighting spirit, confidence and flair to give us punters a good show ? win, lose or draw. The current dour performances are unacceptable (regardless of the result) and if Moyes, Kenwright and the players do not realise why that is unacceptable for us Evertonians, then it has to be taxi-time... even if we all fear what rollercoaster ride might await.
The status quo is no longer an option ? and I hope more of the 'silent' majority between the bipolar extremes of Marshy and Doddy (bless em!) start expressing our concerns before it is too late!
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Purely down to the art of attacking ? or lack of it on our part. Play players in their right positions, if they are out of form, not trying then drop them. It's not rocket science, it's basic team management.
I take my two grandsons (aged 12 & 13) to every home game and even they dont look forward to the games with the excitement that kids of that age should. I don't want Moyes to go because I dislike him, I have a huge admiration for what he has done for this club and like the man, but he needs to go for his own sake as well as the clubs.
Moyes is a hypocrite for making the remarks a few weeks back about Goodison and the crowd being quiet. I thought to myself he has a nerve to state that about good paying fans when he and his team need to take a good long hard look at themselves for the shit they are putting the supporters through.
I go home and away and used to look forward to watching the blue boys ? now it's just depressing. The next week is a big week for Everton I just hope I can look forward in the New Year to seeing some football when I go the game.
As for Moyes, I think he is a dead man walking which I think sums up our once mighty club. I don't know what the long-term answers are but just keep turning up because I've got blue blood going through my veins.
Like yourself, David, I'm an ordinary fan but it's a can of worms when you go beyond blind faith. I don't think the Everton product is value for money and, though I'll never be anything but an Evertonian, I won't spend money on this setup. I remember feeling angry at Everton when Ball, Lineker and more recently Rooney went but it's worse now because what's to look forward to? Cue the young guns saying "Piss off then".
What the fuck does finance have to do with playing a non-performing midfielder (Arteta) week-in, week-out with replacements sat catching splinters in their arse i.e. Rodwell, Fellaini?
What the fuck does finance have to do with keeping the same midfielder taking free kicks and corners week-in, week-out when a player actually on the same field of play can take them with more success in Baines as seen when Arteta was suspended?
Come on, Amit, enlighten me as to What The Fuck finance has to do with those, then add formation and players out of position when replacement players are sat on the bench?
To consistently do well in the modern EPL then you either need to be magicians or have high income for players. We have neither, we have no basic right to buck the trend and be a successful club without cash.
What we have done to date is to punch way above our weight based around a very negative system which seems to patently have had its day. Tuesday against West Ham was the pits but so typical of Moyes.
We had heroic battles with Villa in the League Cup Final replays and Big Bob lifted us with his top scorer display against Chelsea to win six-nil (yes, kids... SIX-nil). Certainly I believed ultimately we'd turn the corner simply because we were Everton.
When I see the neighbours' indignation about their present plight, it looks a mirror image of those times to me. Now feels very different to me.
We will always keep coming back as we love Everton and just want those privileged to perform to show us the same passion we have for this club. It doesn't matter who plays, who manages or who owns us, we just want a team that we can't wait to watch.
I used to get a buzz every time I approached the ground and sadly that buzz has gone for now but I know and hope it will return. Tough decisions need to be made from the top down and as my late father used to say " the right decisions are often the hardest to make". This is what worries me as I just don't see our current leaders having the brains or balls to make these decisions.
I don't care what Liverpool do as long as we are successful, play good football and have a manager who has a clue.
Being obsessed with the situation across the park covers up the problems at home. If we've played like shit and lost a game then a loss for Liverpool doesn't make it better. Stop being deluded and get in the real world. There is only one club that matters and it's not the red one...
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