I arrived earlier than the 7pm start and took advantage of another offer temporarily on to season ticket holders at the Everton One store. On entrance to the rather empty store, I was greeted with a bottle of Chang and a little goody bag? all staff nice and friendly. I rarely buy Everton merchandise and feeling half guilty for being one of the few in the shops and possibly leaving with nothing? and the other half sold by a 20% discount, I purchased a training top.
The time neared 7pm so I made my way back towards the ground. A gentleman stopped me on the way in, handing me a yellow leaflet, probing me with the question ?See if you get any answers from these?. While queuing up, Phil Jagielka walked on past me? moments later, Phil Neville strolled in all smiles? this was looking very interesting. The leaflet was from ?Evertonians For Change?, a group of Evertonians attempting to change the goings on of our club for the better.
From previous, various events I?ve been lucky enough to be invited to at Goodison Park the majority have entailed tea and biscuits though I was impressed with the complimentary bottle of Chang along with potato wedges and sandwiches, plus a printed photo of Phil Neville and Tim Cahill (it should have been obvious what was coming!). Phil Jagielka wandered in and walked straight past us and started fiddling with a video camera?until it became obviously apparent it wasn?t actually Phil Jagielka but an excellent look-a-like of.
Darren Griffiths introduced Alan Irwin from Radio City who was to present the forum. I think just about everyone was pleasantly surprised with the panel that included Ronnie Goodlass, Graeme Sharp and Kevin Ratcliffe along with Phil Neville and Tim Cahill from the current era? and Robert Elstone present to take the tricky questions; everyone generally in high spirits?
Down to business? and Elstone dodged no punches whatsoever. He?d seen one of the yellow leaflets and, without prompting, got straight down to answering the questions listed. Having left my notebook in the car, I picked up the yellow leaflet and began taking down notes from this? not much space to work with but this is the best I?ve got? the questions and the general answers:
? Why is there a sustained lack of investment in the playing squad?
There isn?t a lack of investment in the squad, the academy, the scouting network or player development and David Moyes has big support from the board. The current squad on paper has cost £90M.
? What value have the owners and board members placed on the club?
This is private and confidential information which can not be shared. However, it is not an unreasonable price ? and is NOT the reason the club hasn?t been sold.
? Why has no-one been appointed with the sole remit of finding a potential buyer?
Several people have been appointed. Agents have approached Everton? Everton have used agents. Keith Harris is aiding the search. You have to look for the right person as this is not a rational business. Whoever does come needs to come with deep pockets, such is the job required. You have to be careful what you wish for, however, as we don?t want someone like the Glaziers, Gillete & Hicks etc.
? Which major shareholders actually have their shares for sale?
All of them.
? What are the ?legal quagmires? that have caused the Park End Development to grind to a halt?
Unforeseen landscaping securing. A breakthrough is hopeful. Robert is convinced it will go ahead and generate £9/10M investment.
? What plans are in place to either redevelop Goodison or find a new home within Liverpool?
The current site is too small and we are restricted by schools and houses surrounding Goodison Park. The cost is too high. We are in constant dialogue with Liverpool City Council and have earmarked three or four new sites. Nothing is likely to happen soon. Main problem is that outside investment is very much required.
Robert got straight into things after this, clearly stating there is no transfer budget currently in place for David Moyes to work with. David Moyes decides exactly who comes; David Moyes decides exactly who leaves... Everything is decided by the manager. Not all money made by Everton through player sales will go to David Moyes for squad funding but some will. Not news you wanted to hear but you were drawn towards respecting Elstone for fronting up to the facts.
The current squad value of £90M has been raised partly by player sales (Lescott, Johnson, Beattie, Rooney)... partly by funding. Season ticket sales for the Early Bird discount finished at around 19,500 season tickets ? down 8 or 9% on last season ? and also slightly down on the previous season, though still up on the 08-09 season. Disappointing, said Elstone... but certainly understandable in very tough economic times.
Everton are currently having to borrow every year, though apparently sensibly, though further finance has been raised in recent years with the FA Cup Final appearance, the last-16 run in the Europa League, plus the small matter of £750,000 per league position ? all clearly very important. 85p in every £1 spent on tickets is re-invested into Finch Farm (player, squad, scouting, development).
The way forward? To continue to sell better and then buy better than our competitors; continuing to do it this way in tough economic times with no money... though he insists this is the same for 16 or 17 other teams in the league. He feels we?re better at doing this than everyone else and the overall objective is European football every season. Again, no punches seemingly ducked by our Chief Executive... then onto questions from the audience... again, all from my notes:
? How much of any money generated goes to David Moyes for the squad and how much goes on debt?
It?s too early to answer with regards to the budget but it is David Moyes who makes the overall decisions with regards to players coming and going, though Robert Elstone and Bill Kenwright et al do everything they can to strengthen the squad.
? Would David Moyes walk if there?s no cash?
Robert ?can?t speak for David Moyes? but we will back him.
? Should we make any changes to our investment search?
Many searches have come close though all have fallen over for various reasons.
? Do we have any safeguards for preventing bad owners from taking over, eg, Blackburn Rovers?
The Chairman and Board of Directors won?t let this happen.
? Quite a depressing speech Robert. We have no money for new players and no ground investment?
?I didn?t say there?d be no new players. Come in for a cup of tea with me any day of the week and we can look at bringing this forward?.
? Should we not be looking at greater socio-economic or demographic analysis given the tough economical times?
Key is to get more people through the turnstiles. We roughly have 2,000 empty seats after the away fans' allocation isn?t used up every game. That?s £1M a year. An alternative is to put £1 on every seat... this will provide £750k. Everton?s Chang sponsorship deal is the 6th or 7th best in the league. The KitBag deal is the best after Manchester United and Chelsea. Our commercial turnover is quite good. We need to generate more from sponsorship, more from hospitality and more people through the turnstyle.
The ease of buying from Everton has improved. We?ve strived for online sales as easy as Amazon, Box Office sales as helpful as John Lewis and as quick as Tesco Direct. Things are improving in this regard. Fans communications has improved; supporters clubs have been visited all round the country.
? I can buy things everywhere with my bank card except for on the website. It?s the only place I can?t do it.
?I hang my head? said Robert. "Give me your details and we?ll look at fixing this for you. This needs to improve."
That brought an end to the questioning. It?s fair to say most were quite impressed with the openness and honesty of our Chief Executive though the depressing reading is indeed what we already knew ? we have to sell to buy.
Alan Irwin moved on to Phil Neville for an interview. Overall, our captain is disappointed with how the season has gone as he felt we could win the league at the start of the season. Well I don?t think anyone really thought that was the case but I think everyone feels we?ve underachieved a little. He says he felt quite confident stepping up for the penalty at Chelsea as, no mater what happened, we?d have still had another stab with the next spot-kicks anyway. His highlight at Everton thus far: the 2009 FA Cup Semi-Final win vs Manchester United... Tim Cahill mocked his goal celebration at Wolves.
Tim Cahill says he should be fit in a couple of weeks. He spoke of how he fought so hard to play for Australia that he was never going to let it go easily and hence will play for his country whenever he can. He also shares Phil Neville?s disappointment on the season, saying that in pre-season when they were in Australia he and Neville both felt they might not get into the team such was the quality of the squad. He insists he would not have signed for Everton if not for David Moyes and Bill Kenwright.
Also that he understands everyone wants a new striker, but this could cost £20M, and that when he sees Seamus Coleman, Jose Baxter, Ross Barkley and Jack Rodwell in training he?s very optimistic about the future. He feels lucky to have been at Everton for seven years and having been bought up with Duncan Ferguson, Alan Stubbs, Kevin Kilbane etc, so he could learn and understand what it meant to play for Everton.
Liverpool could be very nervous having spent £75M and sitting only one place above us. In the questions for the players later, Cahill stated how his best moment is: every derby! Both Neville and Cahill were very complimentary of Leighton Baines when probed on his quality by a member of the audience.
Ronnie Goodlass spoke of yet another frustrating season with injuries as he feels our fit squad is as good as anyone's. He mentioned how proud he is to see away ends always full at games and how the top teams really don?t like coming to Goodison. He appeared a very proud Evertonian.
Graeme Sharp appears a big fan of Seamus Coleman and feels we?ve been a little unfortunate this season. His favourite moment ? the Leighton Baines free kick against Chelsea in front of 6,000 Evertonians.
Moving on... and we had a short break to allow everybody to get some autographs of the players, to which I dually obliged. Kevin Ratcliffe capped off the night with a very nice talk on his time playing for Everton. The way he talks, it seems they had a great time doing so. He remembers the turning point for the team, and for Howard Kendall, when we played at home to Coventry City in front of just 9,002 supporters... with Graeme Sharpe grabbing the winner. Howard Kendall would have been sacked in the morning had they have lost ? and we trailed 0-1 at half time! The rest is history as they say.
Neville Southall is the best player he?s ever played with. He told a humourous story of how they played Real Madrid away once and found themselves 0-5 down at the break with Bobby Mimms in goal rather than Southall, and of course spoke fondly of the European Cup Winners Cup semi-final vs Bayern Munich. The toughest opponent he?s played against? Graeme Sharpe for Scotland... though Klinsmann, Voller, Careca, Rush and Dalglish all received honourable mentions.
Speaking of the current squad, he feels they?ve done ?blinding? this season with the injuries though the slow start has been disappointing again... suggesting it is maybe time to tweak pre-season methods ? though we can still finish on a high, and ?finish above the red shite!?
A nice night from Everton and good to see our Chief Executive speaking so frankly about current issues. I got the impression he was rather sincere with his answers and it was excellent to see and hear from players both past and present.
Still, it?s clear to me just how difficult a job David Moyes has. Let?s hope he can pull something out of the bag next season as it seems clear to me that the squad, the staff and the board are all united as one behind our manager. Let?s knit together and who knows ? maybe the best is yet to come.
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Great that we (contributors and daily readers) on Toffeeweb have subscribers that have access to these kind of events. No conjecture just first hand reporting.Although one thing does stand out for me: Elstone says that we will need someone with deep pockets such is the job at hand. Completely contradicts Moyes's comments in the Chronicle and on the TW opening page. He says we can get to where we need to be with not an awful lot of outlay.Someone is not toeing the party line?!?!?
Yes, they are ultimately responsible for where we currently are. But they can't move in the right financial direction without the financial support of the fans.Thank You, Paul. Very appreciated.
Seems they're taking a bit of a leaf out of Man Utd wearing protest scarfs... Will anything come of it? Possibly a bit late in the season.
I am sick of all this goody goody image that is portrayed about Billy Bullshit and I thought Moyes's shout about wanting someone to plough millions in for ground development and team rebuilding, but to not actually own the club, was comical ? what planet are these men on?
English football as a whole is a terribly run business (in fact I think business is something of a stretch) in which virtually all investors lose money one way or another and it's really only being propped up by the interests of a global market and some billionaires with money to burn. The simple and uncomfortable truth is that pretty much all players (not to mention their leech-like agents) are paid far, far too much money for what they actually do (I'd argue the factor of overpayment is anything from 5 to 10x what is a reasonable reward) and until that changes the overall game and clubs without billionaire backers will forever be struggling. If fans want to start a United-style protest to do something that actually changes football, then maybe we should be aiming our ire at the section of the industry whose pay has risen by a factor of 20 in the last ~20 years (not including the other money they take through private sponsorships, image rights, etc) and who are taking from 75 to over 100% of revenues for most Premier League clubs. Sure the money coming into the game has increased dramatically... but, at the end of the day, is the job or the performance really that much better than it was in 1990? I'm less than convinced.
I'm not a Kenwright-luvvie by any means, but, when compared to individuals refusing to represent the club and do their job for less than £30k per week (much more in some cases + image rights and other perks), he seems slightly less villainous.
I guess it also gives you the right to moan about the football you witness but beyond that the business of the Club is the responsibility of the appointed Board and its servants. Thank God for that, I say.
Any one enlighten me as to how fuck all suddenly becomes £9m to £10m a year??? If so, they can come and build something in my garden so I can have free money too.
If anyone has a solution to our financial problems I genuinely would like to hear from them. Much of the bile aimed at BK is spiteful unhelpful bitchiness.
However, I am one of the 8-9% of supporters who have chosen not to renew my season ticket as an individual protest against the litany of lies, empty promises and false dawns that have perpetuated Bill Kenwright's tenure.
An obvious question for me would have been "What does Robert Earl actually bring to Everton Football Club?" My decision not to renew my season ticket or purchase two junior tickets for my kids ? the future generation of lifeblood for this club ? is based upon the buy-to-sell policy which will never again see us challenge for honours.
'Share the Belief', Richard... pull the other one.
Should we not be looking at greater socio-economic or demographic analysis given the tough economical times?Key is to get more people through the turnstiles. We roughly have 2,000 empty seats after the away fans' allocation isn?t used up every game. That?s £1M a year. An alternative is to put £1 on every seat... this will provide £750k.
Then there's our Chang deal, not the best beer in the world but it is making inroads with the pub scene in SE Asia of late. More could definitely be done with the exposure from that. Just relying on getting more people through the turnstiles is so '30-years ago' and doesn't generate enough revenue to sustain a club with top European ambitions in the Premier League!If bouncing around 6th-10th place in the league, getting knocked out of Cups early and not having a pot to piss in are what we're satisfied with, then we have the RIGHT people on board, alright.
Here on this site alone we have fans who may never have and never will attend a match due to geography but may be willing to buy a share/shares and thus invest in the club. The negative side is that it lowers the price of existing shares so smaller shareholders that I've spoken to would be against it... but ? given they only have one or two shares and have had them for years ? I'm not sure what they see their investment doing?
I am sure I do not need to list the issues, but the fans forum should have, MUST have had an invited audience of long-term season ticket holders who were not going to renew, otherwise what is the point of talking to people who have accepted the status quo, nothing will ever change?
My Dad has followed Everton for 80 years, 80 years!! He does not want to go anymore... me, 50 years, my brother, 45 years, my son 15 years ? we are still Evertonians and will fight our corner against any "nouveau rouge", but taking the piss is taking the piss, no matter what way you look at it.
I, we, are still Evertonians but we need to indicate to the controllers at this club that a bottle of Chang, a reduction in seat prices, Cahill, Neville et al appearing on stage is not going to change the mentality of people who think a 1950s stadium, outrageous catering prices, pathetic access, toilets and seating is going to get even the most committed Blues to spend hard-earned money renewing their little plot of land in Goodison Park.
I reiterate: I have followed Everton for 50 years, for 30 of those years, home and away, my Dad saw Dixie score his 60th goal at Goodison... Why are we the lost souls? Ask us. I do not criticise the people who have renewed for next season: what the question should be, is why have I and thousands of others seen the spark go out?
Overall, I was left with the impression that we have a gradually improving situation in terms of the calibre of the management of the club from a business perspective, but they have to operate within the parameters set by the Board, same as Moyes. One point that may differ, perhaps due to the number of footballers on the panel, some supporters were quite frustrated by the number of questions about finances, stadiums, take-overs, etc ? they just wanted to talk about football & in some ways that was a healthy reminder of what we're embroiled in this club for: it's a football club!Nonetheless, although I applaud these initiatives, ultimately it does nothing to dispell the feeling that the Club cannot really move forward whilst the current Board remain in control. At least, not unless Moyes really starts to perform miracles & actually starts winning things! My great concern is that the club's position may become a lot worse before it ever starts to get better than it is now.
We are told that the price is NOT the reason the club hasn't been sold but this statement would be far more believable if the price range envisaged was quoted. It is a matter of record that BK and his associates paid around £30 million to purchase the Peter Johnson (approximately 75%) shareholding and this gave an individual share price of around £857 per share at that time.
My understanding is that individual shares are currently sold at around £1300 and were priced similarly (on an individual basis) at the time of the Kenwright takeover. Therefore on that basis is seems logical and reasonable to conclude that BK has not increased the value of the club in any significant way and could actually have decreased it's vale by greatly increasing the debt level.
It seems then that the true value of the 75% shareholding held by the three majority shareholders is somewhere between £30 million and £45 million at best and if they are asking anything much in excess of the higher figure it seems unsurprising that there has been little serious interest and this is surely the reason why the asking price is considered confidential.
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