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What Did You Expect?

By Tony   Marsh  ::  14/03/2012   156 Comments (»Last) I am still reeling from last night's shameful, despicable, unacceptable shithouse act of betrayal from our so-called Genius manager, David Moyes.

For years now, going way back to 2005, I have been trying to get through to our supporters with regards to Deadly Dave. My aim being to try and let you know what Moyes is really all about... poor tactics and negative approach being just two of his faults.

Last night's result and performance at Anfield and the "couldn't care less" attitude encapsulated everything I ever said or wrote about the one who runs our club.

Forget the mini revival we have just had because I was never convinced at all. Each of the games we won or drew in the 9 games before last night we could easily have lost ? including the FA Cup games to lower league sides.

We got lucky for a while during the past few months but last night, the real Moyes's Everton emerged and the luck ran out. Getting shafted at Anfield in front of a worldwide audience doesn't seem to bother Moyes one bit. We on the other hand are on the verge of suicide this morning.

Why on earth would any manager with half a brain break up a back four that has had a solid look about it for a while now? Why would any manager buy a striker in the window, watch him get off the mark on his home debut, and then drop him next game? It's fucking lunacy.

When the team sheet was given out last night, I knew right then we would get stuffed. Forget surrendering with a white flag, as doing this means you actually have a plan, ie, a plan to surrender. Walking out unarmed straight into the path of machine-gun fire isn't a plan.

The notion that sticking your arse up in the air to get spanked by Liverpool will somehow help us win the FA Cup tie on Saturday is the most pathetic gormless unrealistic load of shite I have ever come across in my life.

I thought I had seen it all watching Everton over the years. Someone mentioned the Glen Keeley 5-0 Derby loss in the 80s... Well, I was there and it wasn't this bad. That Liverpool side was the best team in Europe at the time and we were in transition. This present shower of shite across the park is the worst in living memory.

I hope to God for the fans' sake that we pull it off at Goodison on Saturday but, after this, I have my doubts. The damage done last night could be the catalyst for an end-of-season collapse. Come to think of it, what would be the point of going to Wembley to face Spurs, Liverpool or Chelsea? We all know what Moyes will do if we get there, don't we?

The one time during Moyes's reign were I was actually considering getting behind him and trying to be a bit more understanding and this happens and makes me come to my senses.

Moyes is a fraud ? always has been; always will be. The fool who employs him makes me sick to my stomach. I am not the only one who thinks like this and when the likes of David Booth turns against Deadly Dave, you know there are problems. As for the recent Ben Jones article "To All Moyes Critics" ? what do you think now, mate? Made us all look silly, hasn't he?

Saturday's tie v Sunderland has now become the biggest pressure game in Moyes's time at Everton and he has brought it all on himself. Instead of us going out and brushing the Mackems aside the players have been put under an enormous strain to win.

If we lose, surley there will be riots in the streets and Kenwright will sack Darling Dave... Hmm... don't think so some how!

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Gareth Hughes
862   Posted 14/03/2012 at 16:41:35

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We really need Spurs to offer Moyes the job there; either he takes it which means we are finally, finally free of him... Or he refuses it, which shows him up to be the coward many of us think he is already.
Phil Rodgers
868   Posted 14/03/2012 at 16:58:23

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" The damage done last night could be the catalyst for an end-of-season collapse."

Absolutely bang on. These games make or break seasons for me. We will see on Saturday which it will be.
Yusuf Bobat
871   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:03:54

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Totally agree with everything you say!
Mark Riding
874   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:10:05

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Some good points Tony..
If we beat Sunderland on Saturday, and got Liverpool at Wembley, do you know what.. I doubt if I could put myself through it. I certainly wouldnt subject my lad to such a game.
I sort of agreed with 4-4-2 last night as well ( crazy as that now sounds ).
Steve Smith
893   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:43:20

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9 game unbeaten run including beating Chelsea Man City and Tottenham was a fluke.

Of course it was.

Tony, the rest of your argument is redundant to me with comments like that. The Moyes / Kenwright haters just waiting for 1 bad performance to voice their displeasure whilst being almost completely silent for weeks on here when the team was doing well.

I thought we 'supported' Everton. If people on here 'supported' their families the way they 'support' their club then I worry for the next generation of Everton supporters.

Of course, I know you all won't treat your families this way, because it would be a rather backward way to do so, so why do it for your club?

We were shit last night - the players were shit, Moyes was shit - he got it completely wrong. It wasn't good enough for Everton, or for us, the supporters.

But enough of this Moyes out tosh, lets save that for the end of the season if we do indeed capitulate from now on in.
Ged Dwyer
897   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:51:59

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Spot on Tony. How can anyone support Moyes now. He is not fit to be in charge of our great club and anyone who thinks he is needs to see a shrink. After 10 years he hasn't even learnt that winning a Derby is a priority! He's dented our confidence going into the Sunderland game and boosted Liverpool's going into the Stoke game. I really question his mental state. But of course the local media will carry on singing his praises. We are trapped in a ludicrous nightmare.
Kevin Sparke
899   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:56:32

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Ah, the man who asked Steve Coppell to be our manager and has said on more than one occasion:

'I hope we get beat'

I'm afraid after one 'I hope we get beat' too many - your opinion lost any credibility with me as a supporter Tony.

Steve Coppell ('kin ell...)
Colin Wainwright
904   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:02:32

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After the sickening Bill and Dave love-in last weekend, it has become apparent, to me, that they are indeed, one and the same. Have maintained for years that Kenwright is the main problem and needs to GTF, whilst still retaining support for the manager. Last night's shameful fuckin' performance (if anyone can describe it as that) from the management and players, has changed my mind.

Cannot believe the amount of people trying to defend the decisions Moyes made last night, or (fuckin unbelievably, imo) ascerting that Saturday's game is more important. It was a fuckin' DERBY!

Gutless, and I for one have had enough.
Steve Smith
905   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:10:15

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A ludicrous nightmare??? In the last month we have beat Man City Spurs and Chelsea.

Rangers are in a ludicrous nightmare, as are Pompey and Port Vale.

We've just played our worst match of the season and sit in 9th place in the Premiership, 7 points off of 6th and in a FA Cup Quarter final at home.

But then again, we could be Rangers and potentially not have a future... I take your point now about how ludicrous a position we are in.
Tommy Coleman
906   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:14:04

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Anyone else getting these texts from liverpool fans ? history 34 -2005-2006.Worst ever European defeat in Evertons history , 5-0 Benfica 2009.He has never won a league match at Old Trafford,Stamford bridge, Highbury/Emirates and of course Anfield. Happy 10th anniversary!! Heres to the next ten years Moysie ! />

They love him because they know how shite he is.

Cheers Moyes.
Tommy Coleman
908   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:15:49

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Don't know what happened there, here it is from the LFC fans....

Moysies ten year record at Everton. There has been no silverware won at all under his guidance. Worst ever away defeat 0-7 Arsenal.Worst ever points total 33 In top flight football 2004. Worst ever goals scored in Evertons
history 34 -2005-2006.Worst ever European defeat in Evertons history , 5-0 Benfica 2009.He has never won a league match at Old Trafford,Stamford bridge, Highbury/Emirates and of course Anfield. Happy 10th anniversary!! Heres to the next ten years Moysie !
David Booth
912   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:39:09

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Still seething with anger here at that mindless - but deliberate - piece of football vandalism last night

Heitinga, the man who has cemented the foundations for our recent revival: DROPPED.

Jelavic, who scored a beauty against Spurs and looks the athletic, pacy, intelligent forward we have craved for so long: DROPPED

Drenthe, who gives us that vital unpredictable, match-winning ingredient we have lacked for years: DROPPED

Osman, who had just significantly played one of his best games for years: DROPPED.

Even Neville and Cahill, who have had their fair share of critics recently - but justifiably ought to be the first names on any derby team sheet: DROPPED.

And replaced by:

Jagielka, who I rate as one of our most valuable players, but is just regaining match fitness.

Hibbert. Nothing essentially wrong with that, but why?

Rodwell, who is again retruning to full fitness and simply halved Fellaini's effectiveness as they cannot (in Lampard/Gerrard style), play together.

Coleman, who I think has real potential, but is NOT a winger and has been sussed by every team we have played this season.

Anichebe, a well-intentioned but sadly-limited squad player.

And Straquluarsi, who is back as flavour-of-the-month again (as Velios was earlier this season before he got 'rotated' and then disappeared).

All this for the derby match, at Anfield and with everything to play for!

It's not that the team wasn't good enough on paper...

It's WHY?

It's what on earth was going through Moyes' mind that has been torturing me since I heard the team announcement at 7.00pm yesterday.

He is our MANAGER, the man who named us the People's Club and he has no idea what it means.

It was doomed to failure. The tactics of a man who has no confidence in his players.

Clubs like Wolves, even Villa, who have the occasional match to play for every now and again, might be able to justify 'saving' players for it.

But we are - or used to be - Everton and all that that stands for.

Despite all the b*llocks spouted by Moyes, who is usually such an honest, honourable man, he actually put a team out that he knew wasn't his best.

Nil Satis, nisi optimum rendered meaningless in 90 minutes.

He now HAS to win, convincingly, on Saturday. Something that was well within our grasp anyway - and how much better would it have been after winning last night.

Heaven forbid what will happen if we lose, or draw against Sunderland. Even a win will not help his case if it is not achieved in significant style.

If we do not go on to lift the FA Cup, he has made a monumental error of judgment. And if he thinks getting to the semi-final or even losing in the final will redeem him, he has misjudged the mood after that self-inflicted 3-0 humiliation.

I do not think he fully realises what damage he has done to his reputation.

I have been an admirer and staunch supporter of his since he joined us - for very good and easily defensible reasons I believe.

But after last night, I have lost all my respect for him.

The People's Club have become the sh*thouse club, thanks to a manager who thinks we cannot win two important games in a row with the same players.

I would have no regrets if he was to go now.

He has done a sterling job in raising the Titanic Walter Smith left behind, but he's now heading full steam ahead for another iceberg that's twice the size.

That was not the Everton way last night. The fact it was against liverpool just made it incalculably worse.

I am truly sickened, nay, embarrassed to be an Evertonian today..

I now think we will never win anything with Moyes and I will not seek to defend him any longer.

Tommy Coleman
916   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:18:11

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Steve S, you're talking shite. Expect a hammering....

Because we're not Rangers everything is alright is it ?
You talk and think like Moyes.
Dave Wilson
918   Posted 14/03/2012 at 17:48:38

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What did we expect ? Well I guess anyone who reads toffeeweb kinda knew you`d be on after last night. Your TW`s very own undertaker, You only ever show up for funerals.

You`ve been hiding for NINE games, NOW, true to form. you come along claiming to be the amazing Kreskin.

It must be really bad when you can only ever whine about the defeats - one in the last ten - but cant even bring yourself to enjoy a victory.

Knowledgeable Evertonians were pleasantly surprised and enjoyed our victories over the mega rich.

You on the other hand, kept your head down, said fuck all and waited for Nine games to stick the knife in. At least Ben Jones had the bollocks to put his post up BEFORE a disaster.

The easily led might still buy your claims, but the rest of us know you are clueless without the benefit of Hindsight.

Why not cancel Easter ?

If you really want to come on here giving it the big "I told you so" Why not tell us the Sunderland result BEFORE the game . .or are you stilll embarressed after telling us what would happen "when" Fulham knocked us out ?

Stuart Critchley
920   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:18:10

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I too remember the 0-5 Rush rout, but agree with Mr Marsh, that last night was worse: an inept management performance from Davey boy,a hands up surrender to the worst Shite side in 40 years...

Fuck me ? does anyone really believe we would beat them at Wembley!?!
GJ Butler
922   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:32:52

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Paragraph 4, we couldve lost all of our 9 games in the unbeaten run. It was luck, apparantly.

Paragraph 6, why would he break up a back four lookin so solid in the last few weeks.?

Is there such a thing as solid luck?

Last night was a disgrace and Moyes was the biggest culprit. He went way down in my estimation, but you spout some shite sometimes Tony.
Kevin Tully
924   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:34:42

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If we do get past Sunderland, I won't be able to bear a semi-final against any big side.

There is no way I can put up with this underdog attitude anymore. It is comparable to the way League 1 sides play against PL teams in the cup.

He is a loser.
Barry Rathbone
927   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:28:22

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Such is the impact of last night I'm not sure it's a good thing BEATING Sunderland.

Nailed on to get Liverpool in the semis - another coaching master stroke with Osman in goal, Weir as "sweeper" and Jan Mucha as centre forward can't be ruled out.

We're fucked aren't we?
Dave Wilson
928   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:51:10

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Raise that white flag a little higher there Barry lad.

There`s people in Birkenhead who cant see it
Barry Rathbone
931   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:54:03

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You know it's true Dave.
Bobby Thomas
932   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:49:12

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If we lose, surley there will be riots in the streets and Kenwright will sack Darling Dave... Hmm... don't think so some how!

No neither do I, as our support has become supine and apathetic, we just accept it.

Ask the Blue Union lads what its been like trying to get things going.

The venom directed at them by some, or indeed many, should be directed at our board of directors. But no, many seem to relish having a pop at lads who are attempting to highlight the mismanagement of the club.

We have the team, ground, board and club we deserve.
Liam Appleby
933   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:44:38

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He got it wrong last night. Just as SAF got it wrong when United played city at old trafford. Get over it.

Moyes haters are an embarrassment. No one likes losing to their neighbours, but the people who are slating Moyes and saying it was the worst game they remember in decades, do me a favour?? You only serve to justify what our neighbours think of us. We have lost our "cup final"... let's forget about the wins v City, Spurs and Chelsea...

I'm annoyed about last night, but the some of the shit people come out with on here, you really have to question whether they love the club or love to bash the club.
Brian Hill
935   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:33:55

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David Booth, I have generally supported Moyes although have had much sympathy with Tony over the years regarding our ultimately futile style of play.

Your post encapsulates Moyes mentality perfectly. Look at this post match quote: "I have got three points from the two games so I'm not disappointed with that.?

"I" have three points, not "we". His true colours are shown, he does not support Everton, he supports himself and his own reputation. At the end of the season Everton will no doubt once again be deemed to have exceeded our resources and achieved miracles, therefore advancing Moyes stature in Skyworld.

I have had enough. I still feel sick to my stomach about last night's shame. No refereeing excuses, no diving penalties, only our own manager conceding the game in advance. utterly, utterly disgraceful.
Phil Bellis
936   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:02:15

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Get over it Liam
Up yours!
I still haven't got over the `71 semi final
Dean Adams
937   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:46:32

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David Booth 912

"Clubs like Wolves, even Villa, who have the occasional match to play for every now and again, might be able to justify 'saving' players for it"

Are you serious? Villa are about the closest to us in many aspects. You're just spouting bollocks. We lost. Stop being a bad loser.
Jamie Barlow
940   Posted 14/03/2012 at 18:58:50

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"You know it's true Dave"

Did somebody else write your previous post Barry? Have you read what it says?

Some of the shite I've read on here since last night is beyond belief.

We got beat off the shite and some now don't want us to beat Sunderland or win the cup.

Evertonians my arse.
Mark Riding
941   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:07:07

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24 hours on.. and do you know whats bugging me more now ?

Well, its the fact that Im not arsed anymore..

Nothing surprises me about Everton anymore.
I used to get wound up about it, and indeed I was fuming at certain aspects of the game last night.. but if Im honest with myself, Im just not arsed.
The transfer window went well, recent results have gone well, then just as its looking good, the old cracks start to re-appear.
I know the stick I deserve for saying this, but Im sure Im not the only one who wasnt surprised by last nights events. ( I even backed us to win for fucks sake ! )
Barry Rathbone
945   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:17:12

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Jamie Barlow

You dullard, YOU read it again.

if you don't understand allegory look it up you plank.
John Keating
947   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:14:01

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To be honest I'm still in shock at that fucking team Moyes put out last night.
Still can't believe it.
As far as I'm concerned it was a disgrace, and, the shit Moyes talked about later being happy with 3 points from the 2 games when he'd have settled for 2 again I find quite incredible.
What I find even more incredible is that we have supporters who can somehow gloss over that total embarrassment with " it was only 3 points " " Saturday is far more important " we should " get over it " we are " going over the top " it was only " another league game " and other assorted shite that somehow is shut up people like me.
To all you supporters who can so quickly forget the debacle that was Moyes last nights team I say thank you and fuck off the lot of you !
Declan Brown
948   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:21:16

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I'll print word for word what i put in some other threads earlier on -

I seen more determination, desire, passion and committment from my Peugeot 407 Coupe when it was sitting in a Peugeot workshop for 3 weeks getting fixed.

Last night was the most disgraceful performance of ineptitude i have witnessed from an Everton in a Derby.

I'd pay good money to know the thoughts of Kendall, Royle, Harvey, Reid, Southall, Ratcliffe, Watson, Sharpy, Andy Gray, Big Duncan, Reid, Sheedy et all when they watched that last night.

As for the "People's Club" comment from our leader (spurs you're more than welcome to him), Davey i think it's time you started to speak to the People of Liverpool, the blues everywhere you spoke of back in the beginning of your tenure, to see what they really think of your antics last night.

I was one of Moyes' biggest supporters. Last night was the final nail in the coffin for me. I don't care who gets the job now, 10 years of Moyes, is more than enough.

And Gerrard scored a hat-trick. I've seen some terrbile games in my 25.5 years of being a blue, last night was the worst i can remember. Could it have been any worse than last night?

There's no way back. Hope Spurs take him away in the summer. They can have Kenwright and his board as a sweetener too.
5 more years of this, dear god, please no.

The media maybe building up your legend, but believe me Davey, you're no Everton legend in my book, you never will be, you don't know what that really means.

If i was the chairman you'd be sacked this morning for that, but our true blue born in the ball pen idiot of a chairman won't even read you the riot act this morning. I'd buy the bus to drive you and the players around the city to show you all what we really thought of it.

Moyes you've no idea what you have done to all Evertonians last night and today. You're a disgrace to this club and all that it used to stand for before Kenwright got his hands on it.

That from a very bitter, ashamed, humiliated and embarrassed Evertonian of 25.5 years. Not that it means anything to you as you so clearly demonstrated in your post match interview.

So Moyes, you play half a reserve team in an important derby at anfield, get us murdered with a huge dose of humiliation, then you tell the world you're no disappointed? From my seat you should be thankful you're still in a job.

Jamie Barlow
949   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:24:36

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Does it mean 'to talk absolute bollocks' Barry?
John Schrempft
950   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:02:51

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I don't believe there are that many Moyes haters, but a large number are beginning to hate his methods and tactics.They're fed up with never having won at Anfield for 10 years.

Personally, I would have much preferred draws against Spurs and Liverpool than the derby capitulation. If Liverpool can play their strongest team then why can't we? Does anyone think the team's morale is going to be good going into the Sunderland game and especially Heitinga's? You play really well and then get dropped. The players certainly notice the feedback after such a game.....

I've supported Everton for more than 50 years, which is more than 2000 games, and will continue to do so, but I've lost faith in Moyes. We need a new Manager at the end of the season.
Phil Rodgers
952   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:12:59

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Thing is they are our cup finals. Because....we don't get to many cup finals anymore. Let's face it if mancs had put a decent team out we wouldn't have got there a couple of years ago. Realistically nowadays we are a mid table club with little chance of silverware. Our biggest games of the season are against Liverpool always have been.
Barry Rathbone
953   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:27:06

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No that comes under the heading "Jamie Barlow".

Get a grip man, did you really think I was being "literal"?
(get the dictionary out again if you don't know)
Jamie Barlow
956   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:32:02

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I don't know Barry. Which bit didn't you mean?

The " I'm not sure it's a good thing beating Sunderland" or playing Ossie as a keeper.
Barry Rathbone
959   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:39:36

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Are your parents siblings by any chance?
Liam Appleby
962   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:28:56

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Ok, I think Heitinga meritted a place ahead of jagielka. But in seasons gone by...certainly since Lescott went...that has been our back four.


In the midfield, we have an Irish international, a Belgian international (who incidentally I thought was outstanding again last night in a very poor team performance) a south African international who we highly regard and an England international.


Ok, he could have started Jelavic instead of victor, but I think Moyes went in thinking that big vic has played in these games before..I think he was hoping that these two would bully their defence with their hard work and strength.

Ok it wasn't our strongest line up...but go through that starting 11 especially that back four and midfield...they are all first team or verging on first team. It's hardly like he went with the same line up he did against Borisov couple of seasons back.
I love Drenthe, but more often than not he is awful away from home. Osman staked a fair claim to start (although Osman has had some horrible treatment on here of the years) Cahill has a good record against them but has not been great this season (something we are reminded on here of) Indeed the only two perhaps three of those players starting on the bench you could say we're worth a start last night.
I honestly believe had Moyes gone with the best 11 we probably still would have lost. We could play their under 12 side and they would find a way to win. They have the Indian sign on us.
Mick Fleming
966   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:54:18

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Barry thats a bit harsh isn't it. A debate is one thing but slagging off the lads parents is a bit low.
James Martin
967   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:53:50

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Liam that wasn't the real team at all though was it? From the start we had a 4-5-1 with Anichebe out wide left (never played there before, wasn't match fit) and Pienaar off Stracqualursi (hasn't played there in a long time for Everton, borke up his partnership with Baines). He chose the Rodwell Fellaini axis which results show doesn't work, he even admitted himself before the game that the players returning had been the ones losing. Jagielka was blatantly unfit and not ready to start, doesn't matter if he used to start or not for us,even if he was fit, you don't tinker with your CB pairing when you want to rest people. Its like resting your goalkeeper, there's just no need.

He threw three or four players who weren't match fit into a derby game and then played a few more out of position. The team against Tottenham were all bang on their match fitness and all playing in the right place.
Nick Entwistle
968   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:56:41

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Those Liverpool text messages could be easily countered with worst fans in Europe, racists, cheats, murderers... but that's ok, because they've won the league cup!
Jamie Barlow
971   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:03:02

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It's alright Mick.

Just more bollocks.
David Booth
975   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:57:39

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I really am not a bad loser, that is not me at all.

I would wager you would struggle to find a more philosophical loser than me when we do!

However, I am not prepared to continue to support a manager who was prepared to lose a game - as clubs of the 'calibre' of Wolves and Villa have notably done in recent seasons. That's not b*llocks, as you kindly asserted. It's facts.

And for what? A place in the (sic) Champions League, a vital relegation battle, or the FA Cup Final?

Heavens no, nothing as season-defining as that.

Moyes deliberately sent out a weakened team and was prepared to sacrifice all manner of things on and off the field, in readiness for a quarter final tie... against the mighty Sunderland... at Goodison (where, I think I can rightfully suggest, they get a bogey-match thrashing every time they turn up).

Is that YOUR Everton? If so, you must, by definition, be a good loser.

Paradoxically, that is not an attribute.

If Everton, under Moyes, now fall into that category, it is NOT acceptable.

I am not going to join the vocal gang of critics who campaign regularly on here for Moyes to be sacked. But he will no longer have any more posts from me in his defence.

I am tired of him being 'frightened' in key games and can now see the correlation between that and the way a very talented bunch of players consistently (under)performs.

If that makes me a bad loser, then, like Heitinga, Neville, Cahill - all of whom were 'rested' last night, then I am guilty as charged.

John Keating
976   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:57:52

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you are trying to justify the indefensible and failing miserably !
Fuck seasons gone by, so why not bring Alex Young back ?!! Fucking stupid statement.
Heitinga is presently excellent in central defence Jags has missed months through injury.
I know a guy who played for Andorra so should we get him in cos he's an international ? Another fucking stupid statement.
Rodwell and Coleman just coming back from long term injuries. We had nobody in midfield to fuck Gerrard hence him running the show. Would have suited Cahill down to the ground !
Big Vic just coming back from long term injury. Why not start Osman who was praised for his first half performance against Spurs playing just behind Jelly.
Then Strac. Well if you prefer him over a 5 million striker who just scored the winner against Spurs so be it.
Maybe your right maybe the best 11 wouldn't have won but we'll never know will we? Reason. Cos Moyes bottled it playing for a win this Saturday !
Idiot. Can we not win both games ??
Does he not know or appreciate the meaning to ordinary supporters of a local derby ??
I'm pissed off hearing a few supporters trying to justify Moyes' selection and the idea that it was either a win on Tuesday OR Saturday.
Absolute shite.
Please do not try and justify an absolute fucking disgraceful capitulation against our biggest rivals. It does you a great dis service.
Barry Rathbone
977   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:59:23

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I hear what you're saying I'd like to play the semantics game and say I wasn't really "slagging" his parents but I can't stand that shite so let's say for arguments sake I was.

If you read back I think any sane person can see I was making a point - Jamie didn't!

I explained, gave a moderate jab and he then demonstrated what a complete and utter tool he was.

It is a well known homily "never argue with a fool as he will draw you down to his level and win because of his greater experience".

So I thought it fair do's to jab a bit harder.
Graham Mockford
978   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:02:16

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What did you expect?

Well, on the basis of a good run and them on the back of a three-match losing streak, optimism was high and to be honest the thought of overtaking them was giving us all hard-ons. But did we just work ourselves into a frenzy when realistically last night was not an uncommon occurrence when it comes to going to Anfield.

In my 48 years on this mortal coil ,we have won a grand total of 5 times, two of those times we went on to be Champions. On 24 occasions we have lost, so hardly a new feeling today. That doesn't make it feel any better, I'm sure... but, come Saturday, should we win it all goes away and Wembley will occupy all our thoughts.

And I guess sometime down the line we will have another shit result. Without the lows there ain't no highs, that's the cross we bear. For most of us, we didn't chose our team, it chose us. So on Saturday for those of us going lets fucking rip the roof off and if you want to whine and moan there's always the matchday forum.
Simon Harris
979   Posted 14/03/2012 at 19:49:52

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I, like many other Evertonians, have had shit all day from the armchair RS in work.

Yes, Moyes's gamble resting players backfired, and it hurts, but I still can't wait for Saturday.

A packed Goodison in the FA Cup, 40k cheering the team on, hopefully to another trip to Wembley.

Roll on Saturday.
Jamie Barlow
981   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:14:41

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I understood the point you was making Barry. It doesn't change the fact that it was nonsense.
Dean Adams
984   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:13:06

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David Booth

Your words were;
"Clubs like Wolves, even Villa, who have the occasional match to play for every now and again, might be able to justify 'saving' players for it"
That does not as you try to elude suggest that
"However, I am not prepared to continue to support a manager who was prepared to lose a game - as clubs of the 'calibre' of Wolves and Villa have notably done in recent seasons"

Your arguement is fluid, it just slips all around the place, just like your farcical statement that I must be a good loser. Your logic is mind numbingly typical of those who are deluded and believe we should be challenging for every trophy.
Last night was a joke (in my opinion) we had every right to batter the shite and I for one am well pissed off, but really your wild leaps from my criticism to your assumption prove all I need to know.
Luke Dunn
985   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:24:05

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Jags back, the defence looks shite. We almost forgot about his hoof ball as we hadn't seen it for a few months. Get rid of him, how can you drop Heitinga or even Duffy for this Ingerlund fake/Championship player.

How many more shit performances can this guy get away with? What was it The Arse offered? £16 mill for this guy and we dithered.............
Barry Rathbone
986   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:23:40

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That's fair enough it's an opinion, I disagree but respect as put fairly.

Apologies for the "siblings" remark though I suspect you saw it for what it was
Jamie Barlow
988   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:33:17

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Of course. No worries.
Mick Fleming
990   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:26:00

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Sorry Barry you lost me after your first sentence or, to put it another way, I lost interest after your first sentence. Seriously, I am not taking the piss there either.

Now stop arguing or I will bang your fucking heads together! Vent your spleen at the dickhead with DM on his top.
Mick Fleming
992   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:37:02

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Barry and Jamie, respect as you just made up, hats off to you both. I posted my last prior to your latest comments.
David Booth
993   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:27:08

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Far less 'farcical' than your inaugural one about me being a bad loser.

And my words regarding Villa and Wolves were eminently clear, factual and have been well-documented: their respective managers unnecessarily gambled losing at least one game in favour of another.

That is the main crux of my 'fluid' (?) statements.

However, as you seem to more enjoy coining adjectives and making personal assumptions/obscure assertions, than replying by reasoned argument, I see no point in responding to any of your further posts than in this one to 984.

So, to be precise, I re-iterate:

I do not agree with what Moyes did. It was inexcusable, unnecessary and wholly unacceptable for Everton.

If you are happy with what he did - plus the resultant outcome - and accept the pre-emptive nature and negative manner of losing 3-0 to that shower last night, I have nothing further to say to you.

Liam Appleby
996   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:35:35

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John I'm not trying to justify it. I agree that the starting line up was not as strong as it could be. But the reaction on here, you would think we had the same team out as we did v Borisov at goodison two years ago.
I don't buy into this bollocks that this was the best chance we had of beating them. When they got sent down to ten men at anfield with the kyriacos sent off and Cahill missed a free header...that was our best chance to beat them on their own ground. We lost to a Kuyt goal. We have an awful record against them, I fully expected us to get beat whatever side moyes put out last night.
There is justification for the players on the bench not starting as there are for them starting. Osman, Cahill, Neville and Drenthe have received huge amounts of critisism this season. Jelavic has just come down from Scotland and whilst he did well on Saturday, Strac has had plenty of plaudits in the last month and victor has played in these games before.
Dean Adams
997   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:42:39

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David Booth

Your words regarding Villa (and Wolves) were very clear as I pointed out, twice. Your re-iterating that your meaning was not what I percieved is rather strange, as is your pre-emptive suggestion that you will not answer me again,
Your last paragraph only shows me that you are incapable of reading what other people actually write.
My last paragraph in post 984 says
"Last night was a joke (in my opinion) we had every right to batter the shite and I for one am well pissed off, but really your wild leaps from my criticism to your assumption prove all I need to know."
How do you justify your lack of understanding of that?
Dick Fearon
998   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:38:51

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It is mind boggling that after betrayal of everything we stand for already the Moyes sycophants are crawling out of their caves offering support to this dug out coward.
The shithouse puts out all kinds of spin hoping to hide his own inadequacies including laying the blame on players that he selected and coached.
Be Gone you miserable swine and take that nodding dog of an assistant with you.
Peter Warren
000   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:52:18

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I didn't think it was that weak a side we put out. Jags, Hibbert, Pienaar, Rodwell, Stracq all in., 3-0 flattered LFC. Thought Pienaar and Baines were brilliant. LFC have Gerard and Suarez ? two world class players that make the difference. Gutted but I'm not annoyed other than I don't get why Jelavic didn't start.

I was far more annoyed about City away performance than last night and far more concerned about performance in the FA Cup. COYB
Jimmy Sørheim
005   Posted 14/03/2012 at 20:35:59

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Moyes has pissed on all Evertonians with his remarks and I am fed up with it.
I feel stamped on by Moyes, and I want him gone!!!
He has proved to us all that he does not understand what Everton is all about.

At a minimum he should have fielded his youngsters instead of those that has just got back from injury.
At least they show spirit.

Get rid of Anichebe, Rodwell and Straqualursi.
They do not have what it takes.

I am so hurt by this that I now hate all that Moyes stands for as a football manager.
He needs to go back to Preston where he truly belongs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Simon Harris
008   Posted 14/03/2012 at 21:07:05

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Dick, I don't see many sycophants, just pissed off Evertonians.

Some would rather consider a more objective stand point while others are ust using last night to regurgutate the same diatribe against Moyes.

Move on, we've got an important game on Saturday and that's what counts now.

Unless you really want Billy boy to sack Moyes and Round ahead of an FA Cup quarter final?
Graham Mockford
013   Posted 14/03/2012 at 21:21:49

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Simon , he doesn't even understand the meaning of sycophant so I wouldn't worry. Just another lazy sound bite
Tony Marsh
021   Posted 14/03/2012 at 21:18:06

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Dave Wilson, you really are a dopey sort of fella. I wasnt hiding when we won and I cheered with you all when we did. If you read what I wrote, I just wasn't convinced/fooled by any of it.

We beat an out-of-sorts Chelsea easily enough but the other games we won, City and Spurs, we got battered most of the game and hung on. Non-League fucking Tamworth were the better side for long periods and Blackpool had four or five clear chances and missed a pen so that one wasn't easy. We were awful at QPR the other week and they missed some pure sitters etc etc etc... Need I go on?

Last night has been coming for weeks now but our fans refuse to see it once we win. We are the greatest fans in the world for sweeping shit under the carpet or turning a blind eye. You are the most guilty of us all. When will you stop issuing the stay of execution and open your fucking eyes.

You think you're a smart arse but you're just a daft sod really. Wake up and smell the coffee. Moyes is a clueless twat and after last night you must be the only man on the planet who doesn't know it..

I don't want to come on here when we win and post that we will get into Europe or win the cup because I don't believe it. What I won't do is kiss Moyes's arse after a few wins in the league,especially after the shit season we have had.
Gerard May
027   Posted 14/03/2012 at 21:44:20

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Is the fact that, 10years ago, most Blues were saying "We still have the FA Cup" lost on anyone?

This is, I feel, another pivotal moment in our history. We may not be a point above the relegation zone, as we were when Wally was in charge, but Moyes has definitely caught his disease of making the wrong team selections, at the wrong time and, unfortunately, after his massive wankfest over his 10 years at Everton, he isn't going anywhere.

Daniel Levy is no mug; he certainly won't employ Moyes, no matter his reputation. I really have depressed myself writing this... time for alcohol I think.
Dick Fearon
039   Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:20:43

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Graham # 013, Sycophant is another word for a lickspittle.
A lickspittle is snother word for an arsewiper. Apologist is another that comes to mind.
You choose which you prefer to be known as.
Graham Mockford
046   Posted 14/03/2012 at 22:30:36

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Dick you have obviously done a bit of googling but just to help, a sycophant could quite rightly be described as a lickspittle and I suppose if I was be generous In the vernacular arsewipe would also do.
But to be sycophantic you have to be looking to curry favour through flattery.
Not really sure what benefit I am trying to achieve but I will accept apologist. Only because it is by definition not a pejorative term, it's just the uninformed think it is.
However how I like best to be known is Evertonian
Yusuf Bobat
079   Posted 14/03/2012 at 23:45:46

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We will never win or achieve anything while moyes & kenwright remain in charge.
Ciarán McGlone
083   Posted 15/03/2012 at 00:04:09

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How about 'sanctimonious' Graham?

Oh thank you google.
Peter Barry
098   Posted 15/03/2012 at 02:41:01

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Simon Harris # 008 writes:-

"Unless you really want Billy boy to sack Moyes and Round ahead of an FA Cup quarter final?"

Well, Simon at least that would raise the supporters' moral and most probably the players too.
Roman Sidey
101   Posted 15/03/2012 at 03:28:53

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Whereas I used to not rate him as a manager, now I don't rate him and I don't trust him.
Alex Bonnar
103   Posted 15/03/2012 at 04:49:07

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Come on now Guys. Get over it. DM thought it would work and it didn't. Of course the Moyes/ Kenwright haters will use it to justify their conspiracy theories but more sensible fans will be disappointed but put one defeat into perspective with 9 unbeaten games beforehand. DM and the players will try to now move on and so should you. We are on our way to Wembly!
Peter Barry
105   Posted 15/03/2012 at 05:31:51

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I doubt that Alex Bonnar #103 is a Scouser because, if he was, he would not be so satisfied with a pathetic capitulation to the Red Shite masterminded by a Tactically Inept, Dire, Defensive Dour Jock manager that Everton have. Come to think of it, Dour Davey Boy was just as dismissive of the defeat to our most hated rivals as Alex is... after all, he was only counting on 2 points from two matches and he got 3 so he is a SUCCESS in his own eyes.

If you dont know the significance of a Derby Match against the RS, then you are not a supporter and should not be a our manager.
Gavin Ramejkis
106   Posted 15/03/2012 at 06:26:25

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Graham sycophants also look to garner favour from likeminded peers not just the subject of their adoration so the adjective is a fair one. Some of the criticism levelled at Moyes is fair and likewise some of the responses. Howvever, many are reminiscent of a child with their fingerws in their ears who blankly refuse to hear anything bad against Moyes and roll out tired and weak claims in his defence .

The team selection on Tuesday was poor; the team lost and by a country mile both sad cold hard facts. Ten years and counting looking for a win not just against the RS but add Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal away and that stamps a pretty firm confirmation of repeated failure.
Graham Mockford
107   Posted 15/03/2012 at 06:45:09

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Gavin could be argued so, but I'm not looking for favour from anyone I just like a row.
I've never said DM should not be criticised, he gets things wrong but show me a manager who doesn't.
But like most on here we nail our colours to our mast.
Simon Harris
111   Posted 15/03/2012 at 06:55:29

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Peter Barry - I'm sure you'd be delighted.

I, couldn't think of anything more ridiculous ahead of our biggest game of the season.

I've moved on, as Saturday is looming and my expectations (foolishly, no doubt) are high.

An FA Cup quarter final at a sold out Goodison park, is the only morale raiser I need right now.

The Toffees for the cup..
Anto Byrne
113   Posted 15/03/2012 at 07:08:33

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Benitez was right: small club mentality.

If you want to rest your best players for the FA Cup, then throw in some kids: Duffy, Gueye, Wallace, Mucha, Silva... We would still get beaten but who cares? Just toss away 3pts and blow the chance of a top 6 finish and into Europe.

I reckon Stoke and Bolton will be up for it this weekend and both will get 1-0, It could well be Sunderland's turn as they may have their name on the cup. Fingers crossed we get the result and Stoke or Bolton in the final at Wembley. I reckon the Shite are shite and will get rolled.
Dave Wilson
116   Posted 15/03/2012 at 07:14:14

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Tony Marsh

Wriggle all you want but nobody has heard a peep out of you for months. In fact not since the last time we lost.

There are plenty on here who dont like/rate Moyes, but unlike you have been able to demonstrate the good sense and grace to give a little credit when it was due.
They still dont like Moyes, but again, unlike you, none of them have wanted us to lose in order for them to be proved right.
None of them have predicted we would be knocked out of the cup and battling the drop and Not a single one of them have wanted to cancel, reinstate and then cancel Christmas again.

In short, they have credibility, their opinions command respect.

I was as critical of Moyes as anyone in the thread started by Paul Trail. Tuesday night was fucken agony.
But the last thing anyone needed was the familiar sight of you circling the corpse of defeat like a vulture, gleefully informing all who`ll listen that you were right.

Breaking news lad . .You were not right, you were`nt around to be right. The bookies pay nothing out to you hindsight merchants.

Even with the benefit of hindsight you show a complete inability to grasp the fundamentals of the game ? Did you really think we were going to waltz into Anfield and do what Man U. City, Chelsea Spurs and Newcastle have failed to do ?

The shite were handed their goals through individual mistakes made by Fellaini, Howard, Pienaar and Drenthe do you have a team that wouldn't have included them ?
And why aren't you criticizing them ? . .oh sorry I forgot, You haven't been wringing your hands in frustration for the past three months waiting for the opportunity to criticise THEM. Have you ?

You people make me laugh, you have been screaming for 4-4-2 - you got it

You have been screaming for Moyes to drop Neville, Cahill and Osman (his favourites) - you got it

And you sing the praises of Jagielka from the rooftops. You got what you wanted and guess what? . . . .turns out you've been talking shite all along.

Sorry lad, there are plenty of Evertonians who actually understand the game who are grieving this week, but there`s no corpse here.
We dont need the undertaker just yet, nor his Pallbearers who crawled out of the woodwork to join him.
Eugene Ruane
121   Posted 15/03/2012 at 07:31:58

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Random thoughts on winning and losing.

I don't know much about American Football (probably because I can't stick it).

However I do know that like 'saakkerr', success/failure is measured by how many games you win/lose.

If you asked me to name famous American football 'people' I could give you the names Joe Namath and Vince lombardi.

Why do I 'know' THESE two names?

Well I remember reading a book of sports quotes years ago and there was a lot of quotes from these two.

Namath's quotes I remember tended to be quite funny (think he was the one who, when asked if he preferred astroturf or grass, replied 'I don't know, I've never smoked astroturf').

Lombardi's quotes seemed to be all about winning and success.

There was..

'Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit.'

'If you can accept losing, you can't win'.

And maybe the most famous..

'Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser'.

I thought about the good loser quote after the derby.

Then I thought 'was Lombardi ACTUALLY 'a winner?' or were these just cute, quotable quotes.

Here's what wiki says.

"Vincent Thomas "Vince" Lombardi (June 11, 1913 ? September 3, 1970) was an American football coach. He is best known as the head coach of the Green Bay Packers during the 1960s, where he led the team to three straight league championships and five in seven years, including winning the first two Super Bowls following the 1966 and 1967 NFL seasons. The National Football League's Super Bowl trophy is named in his honor. He was enshrined in the NFL's Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1971. He never had a losing season as a head coach in the NFL, compiling an impressive regular season winning percentage of 73.8% and 90% in the postseason".

I remember after the 86 cup final, the Everton side (INCREDIBLY) were expected to go around the city on a bus, BEHIND Liverpool, to 'celebrate' finishing runners-up in the cup and the league.

And they did.

Peter Reid on the other hand didn't, because he just...couldn't.

Yes we'd had a good season (nb: better than ANY Moyes has had) but we hadn't won anything, so for Reid, we were losers and there was NOTHING to 'celebrate'

He was (if I remember) fined.

12 months later though, he had another Championship winners medal.

Bill (spit) Shankly (in the 60's particularly) had a team who on paper actually weren't that impressive (many genuinely looked like puddins)

However the man despised losing so much, somehow he instilled into them a winning mentality.

Losing was simply not an option.

Sir Alex Red Nose is 70, has won everything, should have the slippers on and be retired.

But he isn't, because winning for him is EVERYTHING and when his sides lose, he lashes out at his players, the media, refs - anyone and everyone.

And in sport, winning IS everything - games, trophies, Monopoly

I'm sure Moyes doesn't LIKE losing.

However for me, he just doesn't like losing...enough.

And I personally think that mentality is something that can be learnt.

Give me a narky, bad-tempered winner over a decent good loser anytime.
Derek Thomas
135   Posted 15/03/2012 at 09:20:32

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Eugene 121:abso-f*kin-lutely spot on. As for Shankly, I liked him for just those reasons. Mind you that was back in the day before they became the RS. I used to go when We were away courtesy of my papaerround money, also there wasn't much else to do.

It was all new and different then both the teen years and the 60's.

Alex Bonnar 103: sorry mate, YOU get over it. The means are never justified by the ends. That one is there just behind I was only obeying orders.

It ain't what you do, it's the way you do it.

Moyes may kid himself that it was pragmatic, that was just the excuse. it was for the one chance of glory.

Some people got it and some don't

Moyes don't. Win lose or draw on Sat, Deadman walking, Walking the Blue mile.

Me Camel, that final straw.
Michael Evans
154   Posted 15/03/2012 at 10:56:18

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Eugene@121 - Whilst I always enjoy your humour, I feel that you have very firmly put into perspective what the core issue is here

Your quote " However,for me, he doesn't like losing...enough" perfectly describes what's wrong here.

Two examples of what's needed spring to mind for me.

Firstly, Big Nev siiting by his goal refusing to come in at half-time because he wasn't happy (can't remember the game). The point being he cared THAT much.

Secondly,a newspaper report of a game involving Barry Horne et al (Dogs of war period). The reporter stated with artistic licence that in the heat of the midfield battle a newspaper sheet had blown onto the pitch and was promptly met with a slide tackle. Humorous of course but also an indication of the commitment being shown.

For me, DM is a modern day version of Gordon Lee. The difference is that Lee wasn't allowed 10 years or lauded in anyway near the same fashion as DM.

Paul Joy
172   Posted 15/03/2012 at 12:15:34

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Out from under the rock again, Tony! Under this articles title "What do you expect?" well I fully expected you to resurface and spread your own much repeated brand of misery and, if I was a betting man, I would have cleaned up on you doing just what you have done.

Yes, we are all hurting in our own way following Tuesday's humiliation but you just make many feel worse as you have so many times before.

And no, I am not an apologist by defending David Moyes ? he fucked up big time and so did the players who did not match the desire shown by the RS.

I have always believed that you have the right to your views ? I don't share them but there are times when it would be better to keep it shut and I do think that has always applied to you and your mastery of timing.
Roman Sidey
175   Posted 15/03/2012 at 12:34:53

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Yep, Eugene. Very well thought out. I can remember a game a few season ago when we lost to someone mid-table-ish - maybe Wigan or Reading or Man City pre billionaire. Moyes' post-game interview was filled with praise for the team and he kept saying how he thought the defenders were "great" and Tony Hibbert was "great" and Jags and Yobo did a "great job" and so on. This wasn't when I turned on Moyes, but I do remember thinking, 1) They weren't great, they were shite, and, 2) If they've just lost, they need a good kick up the arse and Mike Bassett style tantrum.

I've won a couple of premierships in my rugby life, and had a few mid tables, and the odd winless season. The thing about the winless season was that everyone was so used to losing, it did become a habit. I hate cliches, but that shit was real.
Joe McMahon
177   Posted 15/03/2012 at 12:44:47

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Dave Wilson - to be fair to Tony he didn't come on here after the draw at Home to (then) bottom 2 in the table Blackburn, or the defeat to (then) bottom of the table Bolton. If he (Tony) only came on here after every bad performace he'd be on at least 75% of the year.

To me it's all summed up by the reds fans taunting- "10 more years"
Phil Bellis
185   Posted 15/03/2012 at 13:08:47

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Alex (103)
Did YOU think it would work?
Though not...neither did I
And we don't get 65K a week to be as useful as spare pricks in a brothel, do we?
Phil Bellis
186   Posted 15/03/2012 at 13:13:21

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With you all the way - when I tried to explain "winning" to Martin Mason of Backofthebikeshediskan he "savaged" me (I think) and called me a pot-hunter!
I think he was on about winning things not being the only definition of success - bit like Queen Kenny, recently
The mind boggles at the mentality of some supportes
Michael Brien
189   Posted 15/03/2012 at 12:51:07

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Had we won on Tuesday night - we would have been above Liverpool and going into an important FA Cup tie full of confidence - both fans and players. As an Evertonian since 1964 - I have experienced the highs and lows of Derby matches - I was at Goodison for the 0-5 in '82 as well as the 2-0 win in '97 ( Oh Danny Boy!!!! you will never be forgotten for that goal). We have gone to Anfield with poorer squads and done better - isn't that a sad reflection on Moyes tactical ineptitude on Tuesday ?

In my opinion a great opportunity was missed - Liverpool went into the game on the back of 3 defeats. So any manager worth his salt would have had a plan to put the opposition under pressure. You would think so wouldn't you ? What was Moyes plan? What were his tactics?

Now I am not a Moyes hater - I think that he has done a good job - but his tactics have become stale and predictable. On Tuesday night we seemed to have the usual " Inferiority Complex" approach that Mpyes seems to adopt whenever we play at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, Highbury/Emirates and of course Anfield.

The media tell us that he has done a good job - but more than that he has performed miracles!!! Really? I think not. The media have him down as being a potential successor to either Sir Alex or Arry !!! Do you really think the regulars at Old Trafford or The Lane will be struggling to contain their excitement at the propspect of David Moyes and the 4-5-1 system he adopts as his tactical approach in 95% of games??

I rather think that fans of both those clubs would be fearful of having DM in charge - excepting those who suffer from insomnia.

In an article in one of the national papers Moyes was quoted as saying something along the lines of " A few weeks ago I wouldn't have paid to watch Everton". I would therefore respond by asking him the perfectly reasonable question " Well mate isn't it YOU who picks the team? Isn't it YOU who decides the tactics?"

We have a good squad - but in my opinion the bloke in charge seems to have run out of ideas. The question we have to ask is could another manager/coach could get more out of the same players ? I think the answer to that is yes.
Tony J Williams
194   Posted 15/03/2012 at 13:51:47

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Another Marshette wankfest....I love reading these.
Ged Dwyer
246   Posted 15/03/2012 at 16:59:13

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Tony Williams - What a disgrace your comment is. People like you should stay off this site. Tony Marsh is genuinely concerned about Everton Football Club while you think it's clever to dish out obscenities.
Mick Gallagher
252   Posted 15/03/2012 at 17:25:42

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What I never expected was to hear Moyes moaning about defensive mistakes. He dropped or rested Heitinga and he's been are best defenders for sometime. Seen Jags in the reserves and he looked nowhere match fit and that was against kids.
Chris Jones [NZ]
256   Posted 15/03/2012 at 17:19:56

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Ged #246 "... Tony Marsh is genuinely concerned about Everton Football Club while you think it's clever to dish out obscenities."

But, presumably, you think it's ok for Tony to call Moyes a "clueless twat"?
Ged Dwyer
257   Posted 15/03/2012 at 17:46:46

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Chris - his language at times is over the top but he has genuine concern unlike some other people.
GJ Butler
258   Posted 15/03/2012 at 17:41:00

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I have no doubt Ged, that Tony Marsh is a devout Evertonian and may well be concerned. However, he is a drama queen who has rehashed the same post over and over for a number of years now, has on occasion hoped for Everton to lose, and has several times been 'done' with Everton, and 'signed off' for good. He's had more comebacks than Sinatra - so I'm not one bit surprised another poster has a 'hear we go again' attitude, (though his choice of words mightn't have been the best).

Do you know what another toffeewebber said to me after the Liverpool game? He bet me a fiver there'd be an article by Tony Marsh, who hasnt been seen in weeks. I don't know who is sadder, Tony or the toffeewebber.
Ged Dwyer
259   Posted 15/03/2012 at 17:56:38

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Dave Wilson

Tony Marsh has posted many times over the years to say that Moyes isn't good enough. He has stated time and again that we'll always come unstuck with Moyes in charge. He is re-iterating the simple point for those who seem to not want to listen.

He knows like a lot of people that Moyes isn't good enough to be in charge of Everton and I for one am only too pleased that he has the guts to stand up and be counted now, after such a ridiculous management error, knowing that people like you will have a go at him.

Why would Tony Marsh complain every week? It takes something like Tuesdays farce to make you think, "Enough is enough, I've got to say something".

Tony Marsh wants someone in charge of the team who he can trust and he wants to be confident that such ridiculous decisions will never be made again. You should be thanking him for speaking out instead of having a go.

Tony Marsh doesn't want Everton to lose, ever, and he certainly doesn't want to see Everton humiliated like they were on Tuesday night ever again, that's why he has posted.

Who made sure Everton got beat on Tuesday night? Marsh or Moyes? Your mindset is all wrong. You should be having a go at Moyes. Why can't you understand that it is Tony Marsh's loyalty to Everton that is his motivation?

Tony Marsh's opinions have credibility as he has been proved right all along. You on the other hand don't understand the basics, e.g. when you make 2 defensive changes, the understanding the defenders have forged over the last few weeks goes and mistakes happen, especially in a derby, and when you bring in to the team 2 players who have had little match practise, they will not be up to the pace of the game and mistakes will happen, and when you make a total of 6 changes to a team ? especially in a derby ? mistakes will happen.

Distin for example has played great recently but because his defensive partner was changed he had a poor game as the understanding needs to be re-established, and that includes the goalkeeper too. Pity Moyes didn't know this. This is one game where you cannot blame any of the players, it lies firmly with Moyes!
Ged Dwyer
261   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:02:45

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I too thought Tony Marsh would post for one simple reason. He would be angry and frustrated about what the manager had just done. Same as me. Difference is he has the guts to do it knowing some people will want to have a go at him.

I don't think he is a drama queen, he says it as he sees it. I too say I've had enough but because of my loyalty to Everton I keep renewing my season ticket.

I've had enough of Moyes, I want him out, but I'll always be an Evertonian who wants the team to do well, just like Tony Marsh. Think about it: Moyes was the one who was out of order ? not Tony Marsh for showing his frustration.
Mike Allison
262   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:16:02

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"Tony Marsh's opinions have credibility as he has been proved right all along."

Sorry but that is pure bollocks. He doom-mongers and nay-says, nothing else. Therefore during the bad times or when things go wrong he is suddenly 'right' like the stopped clock that is right twice a day. Even that's not really true though, as he's been giving us dire warnings of relegation, empty stadiums and more for years, and what we get is top-half finishes, European football (although not for two years admittedly) and occasional cup runs. We get victories over the best and most expensively assembled sides in the league (as well as frustrating inconsistency against weaker sides).

To claim Tony Marsh is 'proved right all along' is right up there (down there?) with some of the most ridiculous things that get said on this site. He's proved wrong most of the time, which is why he stays away, and he waits for a time like this to appear (someone earlier referred to it as crawling out from under his rock) because he'll tap into the frustration that every Evertonian will be feeling after a bad result.

Where's his reflections after the Man City, Tottenham and Chelsea results?
Ged Dwyer
263   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:23:42

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He got it bang on actually.

He said he was made up we beat City, Spurs and Chelsea but was honest in saying we could have been beaten in the City and Spurs games if they had took their chances and we were hanging on at the end. He also pointed out that when we played Chelsea they were on a bit of a downer at the time. He was pleased with the wins but didn't want to get too carried away with the run as he knew Moyes would come along and spoil it !
Gavin Ramejkis
265   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:23:38

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Graham #107, we agree managers do make mistakes but the real killer is how many make the same mistakes for ten years and counting and get away with it?
GJ Butler
267   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:51:17

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Fuck me, Ged... when we lose, Moyes is spoiling it; when we win, it's luck.
Wayne Smyth
268   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:32:10

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I will never support a manager who doesn't believe we should be winning every game. I will never support one that is non-plussed about a shambolic 3-0 defeat, on the basis that 'at least we won the last game'.

Don't care whether we actually do win those games.

Don't care if on paper we should or shouldn't do.

The manager should send the team out with the mindset that they can win EVERY game. All I ask for after that is a plan from the manager and 100% effort from the players.

Moyes is a decent manager. He'll probably never get us relegated, but then I don't think he'll ever win anything. His teams are also dull as fuck to watch. And I don't like the yellow, gutless, self-serving streak he's developed these last few years.

I'd personally take a risk on someone else and give them the same pressure-free 10 years and a £60M wage bill to create a new legacy. Might do better, might do worse, but Moyes was a relative unknown when he came in and I'm sure there are more out there.
Ged Dwyer
269   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:53:51

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So City and Spurs had no chances did they?
They didn't have most of the play in the second half did they?
Moyes picked the right team on Tuesday night didn't he?
Let's all be deluded shall we?
Anyone who has the cheek to complain let's have a go at them.
Leave Moyes alone, he might have helped Gerrard to a hat trick but what the heck !
Danny James
272   Posted 15/03/2012 at 18:53:37

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This is worrying. If Moyes isn't good enough to manage Everton then we are truly fucked. He's the best manager we are going to get unless we get taken over by a billionaire.
GJ Butler
273   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:05:09

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Ged, answers as follows:

1. They did. In the same way we had chances against Liverpool. It aint Moyes' fault the players couldn't put them away in the same way it wasn't Redknapps or Mancinis.

2. They did, as I think most of us would've expected against two of the top 3 sides in the league.
3. He didn't. See my first post on this thread to see my thoughts on Tuesdays debacle.
4. Lets not.

Moyes was a disgrace on Tuesday, so stick to Tuesday. Claiming the previous 9 games unbeaten was luck and giving no credit there is juvenile.

Here's a question for you now Ged, albeit hypothetical. Had we have gotten a draw on Tuesday, would you and Tony have been on here telling us all not to blinded by the light, or would you have remained in the shadows plotting your next attack? Soon, my pretties...

Dave Wilson
275   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:04:38

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Joe McMahon #177

I think you`ll find Tony marsh did come on here then ? Aricle "sinking feeeling" 29/1/2012.

It's the one where he talks about Moyes being "The least talent manager in the Prem" . .but "the luckiest".

the one where he talks about us playing hoofball in the championship with Barnsley next season.

Oh yeah, it's also the one where he tells us what will happen "when" Fulham knock us out of the cup.


I have never said Tony Marsh wanted Everton to lose - he did.

It was also him who cancelled and reinstated Christmas in a week because of one result.

Your devotion is touching, but GJ is right, he is a Drama Queen. I have no doubt he is a big Evertonian, he is passionate and difficult not to like. But he losses credibility by only ever posting the same bollocks when we lose and unless you are one of the very easily led who hang onto his every word. He`s also difficult to take seriously.

We all feel gutted about Tuesday, the last thing we need is somebody who hasnt said a word throughtout the duration of the nine match unbeaten run, penning a fucken big article in order to try to tell everyone "I told you so".
Chris Jones [NZ]
278   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:31:35

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Tony Marsh may on occasion be right on some things (I've no wish to elaborate since I don't want to encourage him) but the way he goes about telling us is appalling. As expressed in e-mails to Lyndon, I think the tone of his 'contributions' to be beneath Toffeeweb. He was the main reason why, a few season back, I stopped having TW as my home page.
Ged Dwyer
283   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:25:13

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You distort what I say to try and win the point.

Nowhere do I 'Claim the previous 9 games unbeaten was luck'. I point out that at times we were lucky and Tony Marsh like me knows Moyes will ensure our luck will run out sooner than it needs to.

Claiming I'm juvenile while you are making up stories seems to make you beyond juvenile.

Let me also point out that I am allowed to talk about any game I want, be it first game of the season, when Moyes didn't have us ready, or the last game when Moyes didn't pick the right team.

Had we drew. Yes it is hypothetical. We didn't. Had he picked the right team we might have or maybe we might have won it. That's the whole point!

But I'll say this. Had we outplayed City and Spurs, created more chances than them, I would have thought we had reason to be optimistic.
Paul Johnson
285   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:30:55

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GJ problem is we didn't get a draw and were never going to get a draw.

As for the previous nine games I would ask one question - what about the previous twenty.

And it was Moyes's fault the players didn't put there chances away on Tuesday as he bought them and then selected them.......
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
287   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:55:39

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Chris (#278),

Tony Marsh was getting a little too aggressive for most tastes and so we did tone his stuff down some time ago... which probably contributed to him posting less frequently. However, we each write in our own style, which not everyone is going to like. That's part and parcel of contributing too and reading a forum like this.
GJ Butler
288   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:44:41

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Didn't know we were playing for points Ged, what score is it?

Just to confirm, so I am not portrayed as the evil one twisting your words or making up stories.
All your posts by the way:
@ 263 'He got it bang on actually...(skip)...He was pleased with the wins but didn't want to get too carried away with the run as he knew Moyes would come along and spoil it!'
- My fault for reading between the lines that you agreed with Tony that we were lucky.

@ 269 'GJ, So City and Spurs had no chances did they?
They didn't have most of the play in the second half did they?'
- Apologies again. You were responding directly to me about luck and I wrongly thought the fact you were responding directly to me and putting weight behind your arguement with these facts confirmed you did indeed think it was luck.

You can indeed talk about any game you like Ged, but it looses its relevance on a thread about Tuesday night. Messi's great isn't he?

Finally, being called juvenile and retorting with 'I'm not juvenile, you're juvenile' is, well...pretty juvenile.
Mark Riding
289   Posted 15/03/2012 at 19:59:54

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I bet he is thinking of naming the same team again on Saturday.. the stubborn get.
John Keating
291   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:01:20

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Just watched Man Utd get taken apart ? again!! Athletic played with great organisation and NO fear ? again!!

Is there no way we could possibly just play one of the "bigger teams" like that?? Just once... Away from home ? preferably at Anfield !
Brian Waring
293   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:02:05

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I can see him picking Jags again Mark, instead of Heitinga.

Is it just a coincidence though, that after looking solid along side Heitinga, Distin looked dodgy along side Jags?
Mark Riding
298   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:04:35

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John #291.. Even though Utd were getting out-played... when Rooney scored, did it cross your mind (even just for a split second) that "they may just do it again here!"

My point being, that it just dosen't happen with us at the moment in adverse situations. We need things in our favour. Be it a rocking Goodison (Man City), an out-of-form team (Chelsea)... Spurs was a great defensive display though.
Paul Gladwell
299   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:08:37

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John, if ever there was a time for us to catch the big boys, it's now. They all have ageing squads with sod all in the pipeline whilst we have Sheedy calling our kids the Harlem Globetrotters as we Tonk everyone each week, Utd at Carrington etc.

What does it take to have a go at these teams as they and their arrogance and quality has been found out big time?

New owners would help with more cash, but how about our manager for once, just once, go to one of these places and not give a fuck, show no respect instead of licking Fergie's arse and shitting himself at the site of those big stupid flags on the kop?

Will he ever? Will he shite.
Jamie Barlow
300   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:20:59

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There's no way Jags will play instead of Johnny on Saturday unless he's injured.
Barry Rathbone
302   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:08:10

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John Keating

Was thinking exactly the same, Bilbao are 7th in La Liga and tore utd a new one.

Pacey, creative players everywhere and because they were accurate didn't get shagged out.

Wonder if the manager has had 10 years there? Never heard of him so he must be shite, certainly not as good as Moyes.

Paul Gladwell
303   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:27:29

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Jamie, Moyes has history of slyly getting his chums back into a winning team via giving someone a rest in a cup game.
Dean Adams
304   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:16:10

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And some said the ground would be empty, the fans would stop coming... FFS, some people think Moyes is negative! If he read some of the shit written about the club, I reckon he would laugh.

Reality is he got it wrong, very wrong on Tuesday but seriously the last ten years have beena huge improvement on the previous ten. Hopefully the next ten will put us back to winning trophies.
Phil Bellis
308   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:46:12

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Oh that's all right then, Dean ? patience it is...

For a decade there, you had me worried.
Richard Dodd
309   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:37:42

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Now the dust has settled and we can begin to put Tuesday behind us ?we always lose there, anyway ? I`m confident that we shall see the wisdom of Davey`s bold move when our `first team` trounces the Mackems on Saturday.

I can already smell the fried onions on Wembley Way!
David Booth
311   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:36:49

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Mark my words: now that Jagielka is fit, Moyes will be dying to move (and therefore re-marginalise), Heitinga to the defensive midfield role against Sunderland - especially as Gibson is injured?

I think he is incapable of appreciating the extent to which Heitinga has underpinned our recent good run and tightened the defence up immeasurably.

Personally, I think Jagielka is a great defender, but Heitinga ought to be the first name on the teamsheet - as whichever he plays with, Jagielka or Distin, both look settled and we defend much better.

Jagielka and Distin spend half their time covering for each other's mistakes. Like Rodwell and Fellaini, the whole is less than the sum of the parts. They cannot really play together.

But talk about creating pressure totally unnecessarily: Moyes now has to re-build his team's confidence from scratch after a 3-0 thumping and lift/re-motive players who were part of that, or dropped.

If, as we all imagine, that all or most of the 'six' are re-instated. How are the others, who are now clearly second-choice, going to feel? Dreadful, short-sighted, cowardly, de-motivating management.

Anything less than a convincing three or four nil victory on Saturday will not now be acceptable.

And should we draw - or, heaven forbid, be defeated - he stands to lose the majority support he has enjoyed in all his time here. Me included. He will have completely sabotaged our season in five days.

What a huge, huge, huge mistake he made on Tuesday. There are NO positives.

No, there is one: getting to Wembley and beating the gobshites 4-0... but we all know how likely that is, don't we?
Ged Dwyer
313   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:44:27

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As you like the word juvenile so much I thought I would start to use it to describe Moyes's tactics. Juvenile!
Robbie Muldoon
314   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:50:56

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Well, well, well. The poll on the home page after 1,300 votes says 15% of voters think Moyes was right to field a weakened side in the derby (it's feels wrong even typing that phrase). That's 195 absolute tossers.
Tommy Coleman
317   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:58:35

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Robbie Muldoon - ha ha, I know. I was thinking the same thing. Maybe its the "selected fans" at work ?
Robbie Muldoon
318   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:01:54

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I think the wording of 'changed side' is too kind, it was a WEAKEND line up.

Yes Tommy, I'll always bare in mind those leaked emails where it states to call on selected fans, ex-players, pundits, and 'local press' to put some favourable quotables out there to defend a fuck up.
GJ Butler
320   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:59:22

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Assuming youre talking about Tuesday, Ged, I'd agree. If you're talking about Moyes in general we'll have to disagree.
Brian Waring
322   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:06:47

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Jamie, we are talking about Moyes here.
Richard Dodd
326   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:09:32

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Robbie! You`re not suggesting `those` e-mails were genuine are you?
Robbie Muldoon
327   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:15:53

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Ian Ross is no longer at Everton. That's enough evidence they were genuine for me.
Nick Waters
331   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:11:54

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Phil Bellis ? very very funny, and very concise too.

Richard, I think it's coffee you should be smelling... or more glue.
Liam Appleby
333   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:13:49

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I'm sorry but Ged Dwyer is blatantly Tony Marsh's other log in.

"Tony Marsh like me knows Moyes will ensure our luck will run out sooner than it needs to."

"Tony Marsh's opinions have credibility as he has been proved right all along".

....oh really,
Richard Dodd
340   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:29:01

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The log in `Tony Marsh` is trotted out only when the club is in perceived crisis.I`ve offered to debate him on his turf or mine- without response.
We just never hear from him in the good times!
Gavin Ramejkis
342   Posted 15/03/2012 at 20:59:02

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Robbie, whilst you have Doddyesque statements like "we always lose there anyway" you will always have gobshites who will bend over for it. Grow a spine and demand better, ask WTF hasn't he managed a win there in ten fucking years, don't just accept the mediocrity and accept a loss, a loss should always hurt.
Peter Laing
345   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:50:50

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Fucking hell Doddy you are coming across all Inter City Firm with the 'his turf or mine', you been rubbing shoulders with Cass Pennant in the Freshy !
Dave Wilson
346   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:47:58

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Why attack Doddy ? he cant effect the game, which particular trench were you in when we went 1-0 down ?
Brian Waring
347   Posted 15/03/2012 at 21:55:25

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Come on Dave, when Doddy says thing like "Now the dust has settled we can begin to put Tuesday behind us - we always lose there, anyway"

Can you blame Gavin for having a pop?
Ciarán McGlone
349   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:04:16

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Don't attack Doddy?

On the same premise, why attack Marsh?
Dean Adams
350   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:01:07

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Phil Bellis
Can I ask you, what it is like on Fantasy Island where you seem to live?

We were nowhere ten years ago and my post says nothing about waiting ten more years. You really should learn what the words mean, it makes everything so much easier to understand. You might find that things make more sense as well.

Seems you are one of those negative types that believes the fairies at the bottom of the garden always tell the truth.
Best to stay off the illegal substances, they warp your perspective!!!
Gavin Ramejkis
354   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:27:14

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Dave its a fair statement that a surrender monkey line we always lose there anyway is worthy of a response just as you bother your arse to respond stuff you dont agree with.

At one nil down I switched off satisfied that from the paucity on display the game was done, I've seen enough shite displays especially those of Moyes to know when to switch off and know when a spanking is on its way.
Ian Edwards
357   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:30:36

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Richard Dodd

I'm not prepared to put tuesday behind me. That result is very fresh and will be a permanant stain in the record books.

Even the smell of fried onions on Wembley way wont eradicate the appalling stench of betrayal perpertrated on Everton supporters by David Moyes on tuesday.
Barry Rathbone
358   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:33:54

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"Good times"...... spat my tea out - if only?
Mick Gallagher
360   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:33:36

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Dean read what you wrote

Hopefully the next ten will put us back to winning trophies.
Dean Adams
365   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:46:32

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Mick Gallagher

Without hope, we are truely lost.
Steve Barr
370   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:38:24

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Just to throw in a bit of realism re the comment "We just never hear from him in the good times!"

To be blunt, we have not experienced good times this season for sure, and to be fair not in Moyes' tenure, unless you count keeping us in the Prem and qualifying for Europe every now and then.

That may be good times to some, particularly as many have rolled over and accepted this is our lot from what I read from some on this site

The vast majority of our performances this season have been dire, even the recent winning streak was just that, streaky. We were always on a knife edge in each game but managed to nick a couple of wins.

Good to win but the underlying trend is down as far as our play is concerned. The only reason we have risen up the table is a consequence of a very average gaggle of Premier League teams this season.

Notwithstanding the streaky nature of the recent wins, any average Sunday league manager would have at least tried to build on the winning run and played the players that have delivered.

No matter how badly you win, winning is a good habit and Moyes should have put out the "form players", subject to injury of course.

No need to rest players for the big one against Sunderland at home, surely!

I've said it before, Moyes has had more than a fair chance here at Everton, he is stale, the set up is stagnant and we have to move on.

Please don't hit me with "who can do better?", a many based on the derby.. at how much... 60 grand a week. Come on.

Maybe the Athletic Bilbao coach is available!
Mick Gallagher
372   Posted 15/03/2012 at 22:57:46

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Dean I agree we need hope but not 10 years of the negative football
Dean Adams
374   Posted 15/03/2012 at 23:06:18

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Mick Gallagher

I do not believe any Evertonian wants the negative football. I do believe that two years ago we had a side playing good passing and flowing football in the second half of the season, probably our best spell. It is not the manager's fault that we had to sell and I believe he has worked and manouvered us into a position to now be able to push on.

The annual accounts that are due in May will hopefully show that we have improved enough to hopefully buy one or two players, maybe the loanees. Hope is all we have right now. My hope is for a brand of football and the results that will make us winners again.
Phil Bellis
391   Posted 16/03/2012 at 01:00:55

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Young man, as others have pointed out and, with due consideration to your ethos and lack of experience, history, knowledge, perspective, Evertonian credentials...

Your Everton is not my Everton and your aspirations are not mine so, in the friendliest possible, St Dominiguan terms, fuck off!
Phil Bellis
392   Posted 16/03/2012 at 01:14:49

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ps Dean
I agree, to a degree

We are all in the gutter....
Peter Barry
395   Posted 16/03/2012 at 01:59:39

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If Dire Dour Defensive Depressing Davey boy had got any sort of result against the Shite ? and I count a draw as a result ? then we could have said we had turned a corner this season and that the nine-game run was not a fluke... flukey as it certainly was. But Depressingly Defensive, Dire, Dour, Tactically Inept Davey Boy just could not help himself and that's why his pathetic lack of motivational ability and disgusting team selection brought the whole fantasy world created by the 'LUCKY' streak collapsing down around his head.

The fact that he also confirmed that he does not regard the derby game as anything special ? as evidenced by both his team selection and post-match comments ? means he has no connection to or understanding of Everton fans at all.
John Sreet
397   Posted 16/03/2012 at 05:51:46

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pretty stupid article, Moyes got it wrong he probably knows that by now, but this piece of tat is just unbelievably stupid. A pewtrid, pathetic, piss-poor, petty Peter. Just a piece of detritus!
Paul Gladwell
401   Posted 16/03/2012 at 06:34:20

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Tommy Coleman, I wonder how many of those who voted that Moyes was right with his team selection went the game and spent almost £50 to get in. As well as probably another £20 at least on transport and beer etc, or as some I know took the day off work to make a day of it so for some it was a £150 day at least? Come on lads you are reading all this let us know if you voted he was right and went the game or where you sitting all comfy in front of your computer with your hot chocolate and sloped into bed as soon as steviela bagged his third.
Jamie Barlow
407   Posted 16/03/2012 at 07:20:44

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So let me get this right Peter 'after the fact' Barry. If we'd have got a draw against the shite, our 10 game unbeaten run would have been fair and legit?
As it was, Moyes made 6 changes and we got beat, so the previous unbeaten 9 games become a fluke?

Your posts are becoming more and more ridiculous every day.
Richard Dodd
409   Posted 16/03/2012 at 07:41:11

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I have to admit that I was on the way to joining `the depressives`on Tuesday evening! Then Phil M.suggested us changing from Titanic to Saltaire and my positive side returned after only one pint of that Yorkshire nectar!
We cannot re-write the derby script so let`s concentrate on willing our `proper` team on to Cup glory!.
Wayne Smyth
482   Posted 16/03/2012 at 15:14:31

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Sorry dean, but we've never played good joined up flowing football with Moyes in charge.

Not unless you count the odd 10-15 minute spells of the occasional game when the players forget the 500 pages of instructions that Moyes gives them so they know who to pass to, when to breathe and fart and clear their nose.

In his entire 10 year spell, I can honestly say that there have been no more than a few occasions when I've enjoyed the fare on offer and not gone into the last couple of minutes of biting my nails as we defend a lead or a draw - or a defeat - with 11 behind the ball.

Does anyone know of a team in any league who consistently play worse football?
Ged Dwyer
510   Posted 16/03/2012 at 16:39:17

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I think you have summed up the 10 years of Moyes quite nicely and the answer to your question is no.
Jamie Barlow
514   Posted 16/03/2012 at 16:43:39

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I'm sure there is Wayne. We just don't watch any other team consistently.
Gavin Ramejkis
535   Posted 16/03/2012 at 17:30:02

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Jamie to be fair we do; the opposition with the regular members of the premier league being them, sad to say far too often we've seen poor teams outplay us or poor teams show more hunger.
Jamie Barlow
547   Posted 16/03/2012 at 18:35:15

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He says any team in any league Gavin.

I don't think anyone can safely say we play the worst football out of every team in the big whole wide world Gavin. It's just another silly comment that's been put on here since Tuesday.

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