Well, They Came For The Point

Paul, you talk about having no alternatives but there are strikers on the books at Everton. There's Vellios, Anichebe and Conor McAleny. That's three strikers who could replace Jelavic for two or three games. You will no doubt argue that Conor McAleny and Apostollos Vellios are too young — they both turn 21 this year so he needs to start making some impact.

Ultimately, my opinion is that if Anichebe, Vellios and McAleny are not good enough to play a couple of games while Jelavic is rested, then what the fuck are they doing on the books??? Why pay money to three strikers who are not good enough to be considered for a starting place? Paul says there is no alternative to Jelavic and if that is true then Moyes needs to get rid of Anichebe, Vellios and McAleny and find a couple of strikers who are good enough to offer competition to Jelavic.

Everyone keeps saying this is the strongest Everton squad in 20 years but it looks to me like there is only one striker in the squad who is ever considered and that striker is out of form — or just out of his depth in the Premier League.

He is not really quick but he is a willing runner and so he needs to try to get a jump on the defenders and at times I feel he has been let down by the timing of the pass as much as by his own over-eagerness.

The final ball to him in the danger areas hasn't always been top quality either. I know we can all come up with examples where the ball has come to him and he hasn't executed as we know he is capable of, but there have also been many occasions when he has taken up excellent positions only for the pass to go to someone else, or the rebound / ricochet to somehow avoid him completely. He was doing exactly what he needs to do against Cheltenham and yet the rebound very nearly evaded him. The fact that he was able to convert it at all was down to the speed of his reaction more than anything. That may point to part of his problem at least; the pressure to rediscover his goal-scoring knack is leading to him concentrating too much rather than letting things happen instinctively.

How do you cure this footballing version of the 'yips'? A lot of people are saying bench him as if that will automatically solve the problem. If his problem was simply related to tiredness or attitude, then that would be the rational answer, but some of us don't see a 'tired' player or someone avoiding their responsibilities. The consequences of benching someone who is giving their all and is already frustrated by how things are going, may not be as positive as you think. Instead it may just pile more pressure on the player. In the meantime, as others have pointed out, you are not guaranteed to get the goals through the replacements we have in any case.

There may not be an easy answer to this conundrum and it may just be a case of playing him and hoping that his goal-scoring touch will simply return. Ultimately it is up to the manager to sit down with the player and work something out, but benching a player who doesn't want it is possibly the least likely way to sort things out.

Moyes seems to think that the main strikers role is to chase everything down, stay wide to offer an outlet for the long ball from "thumper" (that's Jags btw), and defend at corners etc, etc. Such is the expectations from a former defender who just doesn't understand that goals are scored by strikers in the box, not defending corners or winning the ball at their corner flag.

One of a defender's prime responsibilities is to shepard a forward away from goal, force them wide when they have the ball. We do it for them?

Stay in or around the box; for corners, stay on the half-way line. If playing two strikers, stay within ten yards of each other...

Simple game, football..

What doesn't help is that we have no fit wingers who can do that role, it's more about giving the ball to Coleman and Baines when we do cross, and sometimes Pienaar.

We do miss Mirallas quite clearly also, but again his injury lingers on, hopefully he's back for the next game.

Looks like Raffa cant get the best out of Torres, SAF couldnt get the best out of Bellion Forlan or Berbatov, Wenger has only just realised Theo is a striker and since THand RVP all his other strikers have been shite.

Most of the time it is only the striker they have spent big money on that have come good.

It is well known that Wenger hasn't really flashed the cash for a proven goalscorer and has suffered somewhat from failed experiments but then again he did have RvP until the summer. Walcott may be capable of converting chances but he is also a great threat as a winger. Up until getting Santi Cazorla and losing RvP it probably was the best use of the different players he had available. Torres is starting to look more like his old self (though he has a long way to go yet) and Berbatov will be a moody sod whoever he plays for. Lots of strikers look great in other leagues but fail in their time over here (and then do well when they go back) - horses for courses I suppose.

I thought Christine's analogy was beautiful in it's simplicity whether you agree with her point or not. Shame it went over your head (too busy thinking about food by the sounds of it). ;)

It is well known that Wenger hasn't really flashed the cash for a proven goalscorer and has suffered somewhat from failed experiments but then again he did have RvP until the summer. Walcott may be capable of converting chances but he is also a great threat as a winger. Up until getting Santi Cazorla and losing RvP it probably was the best use of the different players he had available. Torres is starting to look more like his old self (though he has a long way to go yet) and Berbatov will be a moody sod whoever he plays for. Lots of strikers look great in other leagues but fail in their time over here (and then do well when they go back) - horses for courses I suppose.

I thought Christine's analogy was beautiful in it's simplicity whether you agree with her point or not. Shame it went over your head (too busy thinking about food by the sounds of it). ;)

Such is his commitment, I doubt he will ever admit to feeling slightly worn out but his legspeed is beginning to look laboured. Let's hope he regains his normal sharpness before too long because Mr Moyes is not about to replace him with Vellios.

Apart from any thing else, Vellios is still five or six years younger than the managers "Ideal" which appears to hover around 27-32... Such a pity because the boy shows promise and it would be nice to see more of him.

This age thing with DM is quite puzzling. Till young players have fully gained his trust, they will be used sparingly or not at all.

Or is this more to do with the club itself? The way it operates? I really have no idea... ToffeeWebbers with business acumen might have a thought or two on this particular matter.

Ok lets go with this building a house analogy, what if we have a plumber who spent a couple of years training to be a brick layer and his dad was a joiner who taught him a few things, so he was decent at it all and he offered to build you a house for a good price what then? Some players can play in different positions and do a job and if you are Everton its cheaper and easier to buy a man who can do a few jobs than a specialist position. Anyway like I say what has building a house and building a football team got to do with the price of fish?

In one pre season our coaching staff seem to have turned him into a workhorse running himself into the ground every week instead of waiting to make the most of having players like Baines, Pienaar, Miralles, Fellaini and Osman around him to create the chances he was thriving on 8-9 months ago.

So yes, if you have plumber, leave him to do the plumbing

Jelavic always ran around and did the hold up play, he did it last year and scored goals, he's done it this year and missed chances.

He's getting as many chances this year, possibly more but for some reason he's not converting them.

Whatever your agenda, you can't criticise the coaching staff for that.

We took a punt and it worked for half a season, now the defenders know what he is like and what he can do and amend their defending accordingly, that's why he has started to stray out wide, just to get the ball. He doesn't win headers and isn't particularly good at holding the ball up. What he is good at is first time shots, but he is not doing that well at the moment.

What I did like on Saturday was his absolute class turning of the defender for the shot that narrowly missed the post. You can't teach that....you can try.

In fairness, Neville no longer has the pace & Jags & Distin are both lucky they do to get out of the trouble. Overall though the defence did well.

Jelavic can be a poor as he wants because he knows he will always get picked to start. I say that bearing in mind he only needs one touch in 90 minutes to grab a goal!!!

Ian, fair comment, regarding work rate and Rush (spit) was indeed an excellent striker, however, Jimmy Greaves was as good a finisher, if not better, and would have thought you'd gone soft in the head if you'd asked him to "run the channels" or defend from the front. The point I made earlier, which Christine alluded to, was that Jelavic SHOULDN'T be turning up on the wing crossing to...er...who? There's no bugger there half the time because our goalscoring striker is pissing about on one wing or the other.

Much has been made of Jelavic's prowess in front of goal with his "one touch" statistic being brought up time and time again, but if he's by the corner flag it'll have to be some sort of special "one touch" to score from there. If Jelavic is to regain his form of last season, let him play around the box or in the middle of the front third of the pitch where he will have more chance of scoring, not wasting energy chasing lost causes, the poor bugger looks pretty tired to me.

Christine, I've been looking at my house... a plumber may not have laid the bricks, but I think a brickie did the plumbing.

How many chances do we need to actually win a game this season? Yes, I know we have had our share of bad luck too, but Saturday's game must go down as typical, not an exception.

You could take a trip round any local park and watch Sunday pub football and see better and more clinical finishing than you see at Goodison, and I am not joking. Just imagine having a player as good as Osman who could score goals, for example Frank Lampard... yes, I mean it, someone who actually knows where the back of the net is. Someone who will win games for us on a regular basis.

It would not be so bad if we were playing crap and getting these draws, but some of our football this season has been sublime, and all we are missing is that last bleeding touch to give us the points!

I can't believe Moyes has got any hair left after watching us this year. For god's sake, if there is any money available please, please use it on somebody who can score goals!

Ian Rush was whippet like (unlike Jelavic) and his particular forte was running onto through balls as his pace gave him the edge over most attackers. We are talking about what a striker does in attacking situations (their speciality), not what they contribute defensively.

So we were talking about attackers attacking specifically not their all round contribution to the team? From what I read people were discussing what was hindering Jellys peformance such as spending too much time tracking back and running channels instead of being in the box. Maybe I misread it. Either way what I discussed had far more relevance than a discussion about building a house and when to use a plumber.

Some people think the answer stems from their observances that he is being less selfish, i.e. working harder in areas outside the box for the good of the team, but that adversely affects the number of times he is in the right place at the right time to convert chances, or just the type of chances that are falling his way. My point was that just because Rush could run around all day long and still have the pace / energy to get onto and convert chances, doesn't mean you can apply the same to all strikers. Jelavic is a long way from being a Rush-type player.

I don't know why Jelavic isn't scoring and I can't really get behind the idea given above because I would need to revisit last seasons games to get a good idea of whether his expected duties have radically changed. The balance of the team changed quite a lot during the summer, and that may have done something to detract from his goal-scoring as well.

An analogy is a comparison of a complex or unfamiliar situation with something that most people would be able to relate to. It doesn't have to be about football to have relevance to a football scenario.

The point of the analogy (which does work on a very simple level) is that Jelavic's 'bread and butter' is lurking in and around the box scoring goals - in the analogy 'doing the plumbing' - not running all over the place supporting others (that is 'brick-laying' and someone else's prime responsibility). Maybe some strikers can do both but Jelavic can't so he is best left with plumbing duties only(?)

Wonderful analogy, as Si pointed out, but shoving square pegs in round holes is the way of the football world these days, I'm afraid. What's more... You know it. Employing two players for every position is just not possible. Also, a "Cole-York", "Gray-Sharp" scenario would be viewed as old-fashioned. (We could have done with them against Swansea.)

Pundits are forever pontificating about strikers being the first line of defence and since Barcelona decided to regain possession within 6 or 7 seconds, everyone is trying it. They see it as a must.

It all goes in circles... One fine day another great team will emerge, playing to a new revolutionary system which everyone will try to copy.

As for our leg-weary Croatian, he is too big and heavy a lad to be chasing all over the place, even if he enjoys doing it. Goodness knows what to do... It's a bit like telling Pienaar to stay on the wing.

Fellaini has not helped... and that's a fact. (Holy smoke... I Hope the "fact" boys are in bed.) The £15mil Belgium Buyout guy has not raised one single bead of sweat since he was docked two weeks wages. Chasing down the middle to score in the dying minutes at Cheltenham was a rare moment of real effort... aided by the fact that he had strolled around for 90 minutes and still had fresh legs Oh yes,he looks good.Gets his head on a few balls,combines nicely with whoever is near but thats about it. A big lump who is playing like a big girl.(Sorry Christine.I do not have your analogy talent.)

So what now?.......and it's where I join Michael the Editor even though he sometimes blows his top, uses weird words and gets into overcomplicated phrasing jousts with like-minded Webbers.

Forget the Transfer Window. Forget Pele and Marad... Sorry, Mirallas and Gibson. Mr David Moyes is paid a truly massive salary to get the very best out of what we have. It is his responsibility... His alone.

Missed chances and a flapping goalkeeper have cost us many points but we lie in fifth place and are still in with a shout for Europe. Apart from the top two, no-one is consistent but DM will need to do better than of late. A great start torn apart by rank bad management will not be easily forgotten or forgiven.

Reading the various posts on numerous threads, it is abundantly clear that ToffeeWebbers everywhere are delighted with our position but are demanding changes. Team selection, altering things early if it's not going well, remove the old favourites if they are out of form and getting 100% effort throughout... Oh yes... and not picking Naismith.

Watched a good movie last night. "The Adventures of a Plumber's Mate". I kid you not... Every bloke in it had a Leighton Baines haircut.

A strikers role is primarily to score goals, live in the box, so to speak, certainly be available to be on the end of anything that should come his way. Not waiting at the corner flag for the midfield to catch up...

A defenders role is to shepard him away from where he can do the most damage, in the box. My point is that Moyes should be telling him to stay in the box, not the channels, thats the wide mens roles, btw did you ever see any striker playing on the same wing when Donovan was playing? No, you didn't, you didn't have to. He knew his job, up and down and could deliver into the box with a vengence, consistantly.

So, we are masking the shortcomings elsewhere in the team by asking strikers to cover more area than any other players on the pitch AND be on the end of every cross and be sharp enough to stick it in the net every time.. come on guys, give me a break, thats comic book hero stuff, Roy of the Rovers.. damm THATS the coaches manual Davey is using.. wow.

The fact is Jelly overachieved slightly last season and yes there are other factors including a bit of luck perhaps a lack of confidence and perhaps Fellaini playing in place of Cahill, but I doubt it has any thing to do with Moyes because like I said, I read before the FA cup game Moyes saying that Victor keeps drifting out wide even though he is not being told to do so. Moyes might be a lot of things but I would never call him a liar. So maybe Jelly is doing the same.

Also why is it ok when Rooney runs all day for Man Utd and hardly gets in the box, should SAF be blamed as well?

He's out of form; it will come back... but he deserves to be dropped because bad form should be punished and good form rewarded. Give Vellios at least 30 mins against Soton and let Vellios start at home the next week.

With regard to the specialist issue. Believe me, I know exactly what you're getting at. When Alan Shearer drifted to the wing in his England days, I would scream blue murder. He was a penalty-box specialist and though he couldn't park inside the area for 90 minutes, I wanted him on the end of every cross.

The Donovan thing is a good one. Being very right-sided, Jelavic would love him. So would all the other right-footed players. The way it is now, with everything coming from the left, we either get a bunch of southpaws into the box or we find someone like Valencia or Donovan.

Incidentally... I hate to say it but your striking duo scenario was played out fairly well by those two unspeakables in the second half at Old Trafford. Great result though.

Christine, What gives you the idea that Dogged David actually studies a coaching manual? He wouldn't know a 4-4-2 from a 4-3-2-1... and where does Naismith the Nonentity figure? A decoy perhaps.

Finally... Your observation "shortcomings elsewhere in the team" is spot on. Even more so when you include the coaching staff. For me, the shortcomings are not the actual players... Okay, several are injured but the remainder are a fine skilled group of quality professionals who deserve to be coached and used in a proper manner. This, I believe, is just not happening. The inability to put the ball in the net on Saturday and the daft early goal at Newcastle... Yes — where was the Stubbs, Weir, Moyes coaching manual when that went in?!!