Barkley to be farmed out on loan

No wonder the lad wants to go to Arsenal.

The way I see it, Moyes must be having long term plans for the lad at Everton if he is prepared to send him on a year long loan to the Championship. If he wanted to cash in on him next year, a la Rodwell, he would have put him up on the shop window.

We hoped to see him this year, but IF we get in Mirallas then Barkley's time will never be as a starter without injuries. He needs to be playing.

What's the problem?

You also have to remember Moyes is a safety first, balloon-eyed presbyterian with absolutely no imagination.

I was actually starting to believe Moyes was turning the corner, going for exciting forwards instead of defenders 1st, 2nd and 3rd, I even think he made the right decision with Rodwell, because he has done not under the Moyesiah and then this!

Well, it looks like I can take Ross Barkley out of my fooling Fantasy Football League team, now who can I replace him with in the Nightmare Dreary League Moyes.

Why can't we farm Moyes out to the Championship until he matures and grows a set of balls, prove me wrong you dour, negative git.

To be fair, wasn't Barkley injured quite a bit last season?

It's not that Ross is 'not going to make it'.
It's not that Moyes is being 'negative', though you folk should know a fair amount about that characteristic.

The fact is, Barkley has tremendous talent. However last season and also this pre-season hes mixed wonderful skill with naïveté.

He needs to play regular, competitive football to become the player we all hope for. Look at how Arsene Wenger loans out his younger players.

Or is it bad that Moyes would rather play developed and reliable players in league games, instead of players who are at the very start of their careers (and may never have a career at the top level)?

It never ceases to amaze me why in the name of god Everton continue to pay a muppet like Moyes good money every week when any one of the masses of geniuses on Toffeeweb could do a much better job.

Look, apart from the fact that Ross hasn't been sent out on loan (Moyes has only said he might do it, perhaps he's even challenging the player to step up his efforts in training and really impress), the simple point is: none of us see what Moyes sees every day in training. We don't get to see how players train, the intensity they put in, whether they're overweight, unfit, not mentally "at it" etc. Moyes, and his staff, do see all this. And, as such, they are best placed to decide how best to develop a player, who should start the next game etc.

I don't believe Moyes is wrong to send young players out on loan. If he is, then Imperial Lord Ferg, Arsene Wenger, the Chelsea manager du jour and just about every other bloody manager in the Premier League is wrong. But it's alright: Toffeeweb residents know the right way to develop youth.

Sigh, bloody sigh, indeed.

Look at Ossie?...feck

Nah, it really would be the best thing for him, god solid football against aging pros who will make him have to up his game. He is not going to get the required time here so I hope it comes off.

Arsenal, yeah right!!

Yeah, Moyes and Wenger, two peas in a pod.

(tut! - rolls eyes so far back, can see inside of back of own neck).

Yes he needs to play regular, competitive football...for Everton in the PREMIER LEAGUE.

THAT'S how he'll 'become the player we all hope for'.

Dr Gloom however would rather play it 'safe' though.

For safe, see Barkley getting the shite hacked out of him by envious lunatics in lower leagues or thinking he's not wanted/needed and leaving him open to having his head turned by someone who has a mate who is an agent who can treble his money etc blah.

Negative?

I certainly am, BUT...I certainly wasn't born this way.

Barkley should have been ready to play for Everton this season and the fact that (it appears) he won't be, is, imo, down to nothing other than a complete lack of imagination on the part of 'The Moyesiah'.

Sighs and rolls his eyes at the predictability of your post on this subject.

Talk about a predictable response.

Your football-by-numbers response is, I imagine, not unlike Moyes.

Do this, then this, then this, followed by this and that and this will happen.

The thing is life doesn't work that way (the best laid plans etc).

I make my decision based on two things.

What (admittedly not much) I have seen of the lad and the notion that sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and take a chance.

You disagree, that is your choice.

All players develop differently. Already, this Barkley stuff is going to get very old, very fast this season. Every decision is greeted with hysteria. Moyes has aired an idea in getting the kid away to learn his trade further. A loan is for for 3 months (oh God 3 months the sky will fall in!!!).

Go away for 3 months, exposure to a first team dressing room, consistent football at a lower level, keep developing physically, mentally, develop away from the most hyped league in the goldfish bowl of Merseyside.

How many games were people actually expecting to Barkley to play this season?

People are judging all young players by Rooney and he was the exception not the rule. Rooney was a freak. Bad tournaments or not, and in those he's been compromised by injury for me mainly, he is one of the best players to come out of this country, ever. He is 27 and has about 80 England caps. And you want to judge against that standard?

A loan is for 3 months, he is developing into a man, in a footballing and personal sense. A loan would help, it can only benefit. There are countless examples of this. Just because you were hoping to have your matchday experience brightened and have latched onto a kid to do this, Ross Shields, has nothing to do with Ross Barkleys career, which will still hopefully be going in 15 years.

Barkley hysteria, its old already. Get the lad on loan and help him develop pressure free and away from this bullshit of being the saviour of the club, or some fellas Saturday afternoon, everytime he steps on the turf at Goodison.

Barkley is no younger than many other players who are already playing at other club sides. The squad is threadbare and no consideration seems to be getting made about suspension and /or injury cover.

I am dismayed!!!

Compare this to how Moyes has treated Barkley and its chalk and cheese. Moyes fucked around last season with the lad instead of either playing him or loaning him out he did neither! He should have gone on loan last season, preferably with another Premier League side and then been playing for us this season.

He's a good replacement for Cahill playing in that midfield role just off the striker. This lad is a real talent and needs to be playing to develop. It's just that it should have been done last season and that is down to Moyes.

It seems to me that David Moyes is more tolerant of errors from experienced pros than he is of those from talented young players. Should it not be the other way round?

With all due respect, there is a reason why football managers earn more in a week than many of us do in a year.

And I love the irony when people call the manager 'negative'. Kettle, Pot, Black.

Again If 2 to 3 attacking players are coming in, then Vellios would be well advised to go out on loan probably for the season as well.

Football managers opinions like fans differ wildly. Another manager than Moyes could take a completely different view to Barkley. Take for example Andy Hinchcliffe, Mike Walker didn't rate him and didn't play him. A lot of fans did rate him and thought he should be playing. Joe Royle came in, had a different view to Walker and played him. Its the same with Barkley, just because Moyes takes a particular tack doesn't mean he is right and some fans are wrong.

By the way I have seen Barkley play for the reserves numerous times and also seen him play for England whenever the game was televised.

So he'll be a sub, getting ten mins here and five there. Surely it's a sound idea to get him regular competitive games instead, I recall Ossie going to Derby and coming back a much better player.

Yes we'd all like to see him follow Rooney and Rodders up from the academy but he has time on his side. Good move for me by Moyesy and good for Ross too imho.

How can anyone not be cheesed off at what Moyes has said ? We have been hearing how good this youngster is for two years. We have sat back and watched quietly whilst he's "nurtured" to the point of mothering gone mad. He's been "protected", eased along, supported, encouraged, blah bloody blah. He made one horrible cock up in a prem game and apparently set himself back about four years. I get it ref a short loan spell I really do. It could just give him a boost, an edge, during the next three months and then he could return as some here have said, just before Christmas when frankly our absurdly tiny squad might well need his support. In fact id insist on an early return clause.

But.... sending him away for another season is just so safety first its not true. I read all thats said about the top four or five clubs sending their youngsters out on loan and yep, it can work quite well for them without compromising the week to week performance of the team. But at Everton we have to take a few risks, some managed gambles if you like and surely bringing Ross on via the new u21 set up AND giving him some decent bench time is worth the risk of a couple of mistakes and pushing him a little hard ? If we do start better this year he might just get a few more last twenty minutes when we are playing well and winning, and that could do wonders for his confidence and allow the talent to blossom ?

i do feel negative about what Moyes has said because it all feels ultra cautious. Ross has real talent, at least thats what we are told, so why not ease him in at our club, give the fans more sight of that talent and trust them to support him strongly, and yes that includes when he gives the ball away in the middle like a dork and gives us palpitations.....but watch us get behind him and bring him along as he strikes the ball sweetly and powers on to a good Felli pass and whacks in the net from twenty five yards.....it could easily happen and id rather we take the risk at EFC than see RB at a Championship club getting lumps kicked out of him by average clod hoppers.

On the basis that the first team has reasonable replacements in place and the U21s is strong enough to be competitive, a 3 month loan to a decent championship team doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me.

One question; is the Championship any more brutal than EPL or reserves / U21s would be?

You state "No wonder the lad wants to go to Arsenal".

I'm curious as to what you are basing this on. Can you shed some light, as I assume your stating this as fact is not based purely on one particular TW member starting a rumour on your site's message boards.

You may well be right but that's not the best example considering how well Hibbert played that night and the fact we went on to beat the champions elect 1-0

You might be reading too much into Moyes calling him a "boy".

When discussing 29 year old Robin van Persie yesterday, Alex Ferguson said "Arsene knew the boy wanted to leave"

I doubt very much it's an indicator that he wants to get shot of him and probably just an expression. Much like scousers using the word "lad" even when talking to or about people their senior.

Also I'd guess that Michael meant Mirallas (who seems like he's ours thankfully, but chickens and eggs) rather than Barkley wanting off to Arsenal given the date and time of his post.

That is why Moyes prefaced his context by saying if he strengthens his squad enough he would send him out, not right now though. Not surprised that ToffeeWeb wouldn't put the full context of the quote though, any chance to take a dig.

"I can't do it right now until the squad is strong enough. I want him to go out and play. It seems right." So if he brings in a few more players, he wants to send him out to get playing time instead of bit part action here. God forbid.

If Michael meant Mirallas then it seems out of context with his previous paragraph which was about sending young players out on loan.

I'd appreciate it if you could cut that crap in the bud right now. We quote the source, we provide a link to the source, you can directly compare what we post with what the source article says. Not many sites do that but it doesn't stop you from spouting shite about ToffeeWeb, does it?

Nothing of the 'context' you claim was present in that original source. It may be elsewhere but I think that Click Liverpool story was the first one to appear, and that's the one we used to generate the news feature.

Noel (#033),

Last week, Tom Dodds posted:

I have heard from a few sources, that the current crop of 'kids', specifically Baxter, Barkley, McAleny and others have become 'infected' the same way, à la Rooney, and the story goes Barkley told Moyes he'd love to play for a bigger club like Arsenal one day (soon) !!.... Which apparently turned into... "Fuck off till April", which in turn was press re released to "We'll give him a start in April"!

I too work in the online media business, and before publishing quotes it's always best to see who the "original source" is. Meaning, who was he giving the interview to, and is the full context there. If Click Liverpool don't say, something along the lines of "speaking to us" and don't say "speaking to [insert media here]", then try a quick google search for the story. He was speaking to the Daily Mail, as Sky Sports quoted as well. Wouldn't hurt for you to update the story with the appropriate source, providing full context behind what the manager's comments really were.

He said if he strengthens his squad the way he wants, then he wants to send him out to get games. But right now, that won't happen. He goes on to explain further why he is considering this action: "We put him in last year and he's doing well. But it would be easier for him to go to the Championship and make his mistakes rather than in the Premier League".

Barkley isn't ready, simple as. You really think he's ready to play centre midfield in the Premier League, you think his defensive abilities is up to scratch? Not a chance. He could play the Cahill role, but I'd much rather Naismith, who has been our best player in pre season so far.

So yeah, with Michael's awful argument about loaning out our kids to clubs i.e Baxter, Forshaw etc, none of them were ever good enough for our first team anyway, League 1 is their level. Barkley has huuuuge potential, and playing at championship level when he's 18 is pretty damn good.

Deluded fans think he should play because he's homegrown, has a lot of potential etc, when fact is AT THE MOMENT he is not ready. I have no doubt he will be, and will be our best player in a few years, but he's not ready, especiallt playing centre mid, which you know what Moyes' like, has gotta have a lot of defensive abilities, and Barkley doesnt have that yet.

I'll take that as acknowledgment that the source we cited did not include the quote you mentioned, and that it was not deliberately left out as your post egregiously claimed. I know an apology would be too much to expect.

Sounds like you could do a better job at this than we do... how about volunteering your time to prep stories for us??? Just think: that way, you'll be able to put your slant on things!

The talk about the top clubs loaning out youngsters does not compare with our small squad size as they all have lots more players than we do.

I do not buy into the excuse given that it gives players more time on the pitch. Barkley plays quite regularly and our senior players who come back from injury generally sit on the bench instead of playing reserve games.

It's purely and simply a wage-saving excersise, and it happens every season. It is a ploy for DM to be able to use money from the Rodwell sale to buy a couple of players who may not make it in the premier.

Barkley should be kept available and other youngsters who are not ready for a first team step up should be loaned out instead.

When mention of loan players like Cleverley from Utd and Wilshere from Arsenal are used as comparable examples it makes me laugh. :0) Both clubs have large squads and can afford to allow fringe players to go out on loan.... We CANNOT.

On the other hand, those with a frankly vicious anti-Moyes agenda are ALWAYS pre-disposed to belligerence.

Here's what will happen..

Barkley may go out on loan - Moyes will cop it from the MOB.

When Barkley makes mistakes in a Blue shirt - they'll blame DM.

IF Barkley DOES succeed at Everton - Moyes won't receive ANY credit for it.

'Any chance to have a dig..' - 'Anti-Moyes Hysteria' - 'The Moyes out brigade' - 'Usual TW negativity' etc blah.

These sentiments, imo, only make those who use them look daft and desperate (desperate in so far as a gross exaggeration is resorted to)

The reality is that those who think Moyes lacks imagination, express a perfectly legitimate opinion, with (FACT!) no more or less 'hysteria' than those who think he's doing a sterling job.

In fact less imo, as the use of 'hysteria' to describe an opinion different to your own, is itself, rather hysterical (and has a certain over defensive 'Tom Cruiseness' about it).

Grow the fuck up, we're rarely going to change each other's mind's/opinions but debate should be attempted without this nonsense.

Oh and while I'm here... 'simple as' is not a shit argument – it's NOT an argument of any sort.

So if he was going to select someone to play holding role, and you do need someone playing that role, out of Barkley or Neville seeing as Barkley is a young ball playing attacking mid......yeah I hope he would play Neville!

Theres an injury crisis??? Well, if I was going to ask someone to play out of position in an injury crisis then I may ask the massively experienced, versatile, senior pro who can play in different positions and not the young lad making his way in the game.....depending on the position.

But if the injuries were in a wide or attacking sense I would expect Barkley to play.

Why published an unsourced story in any column other than 'rumours'?

(When I say unsourced, I know you got it from Click Liverpool but their source is invisible... basically stolen.)

Yes, mate, from Everton.

That's exactly what I was referring to. One TW contributor posts a rumour (and that's the kindest way I can describe it) and you then present it as fact by saying:

"No wonder the lad wants to go to Arsenal."

I don't see the similarities with Rooney at all. Rooney never suffered the injuries and consequent stall in development that Barkley did, nor did he (to my recollection) drop back from the first team to reserves and under 18's.

My personal view is that a month or two playing regularly at a decent championship team could help his development. Those that have done so in the past and made it (e.g. Defoe, Beckham, Osman) seem to have benefitted from it.

I cannot recall too many young players that Moyes has shipped out on loan, been released by Everton and then gone on to make it elsewhere in the Premier League. Ruddy is one that comes to mind but that's mitigated by the fact that goalkeeper is a specialised position where first team opportunities are extremely limited.

And all based on a random quote that somebody posted in a forum about Barkley fancying Arsenal.

Having a go at somebody for talking crap when you're prepared to build a criticism of Moyes on one man's speculation is a bit rich.

"I make my decision based on two things. What (admittedly not much) I have seen of the lad and the notion that sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and take a chance."

The key phrase being "admittedly not much" thus confirming my original thesis that it is the 'Rooney trap' you have indeed fallen into. You admit that you haven't seen him play much at all yet apparently you say "he should have been ready to play for Everton this year" you use the word 'should' as though there is indedd some sort of magic formula but I am the one accused of "football by numbers" and "predictable responses"

One of us have fallen for a championship manager style theory based on nothing more than seeing the lad play for a few minutes and having some sort of gut instinct which some might think is a predictable media-hyped football by numbers response.

"The failure to manage VDM cost us the 2009 final"

Ian, I'm actually laughing as I'm typing!!

Sort your head out!!!

We wouldn't have got to the final if it wasn't for Van der Meyde virtually winning the Liverpool game.

What attacking threat did we have after going behind in the final? Fuck all. What goal threat did we have on the bench? Fuck all.

Would Van der Meyde have kept Ashley Cole occupied instead of tearing Hibbert a new arse? Yes.

What attacking flair did we have against Liverpool in the semi? Fuck all. Would Drenthe have got us moving forward? Yes he would.

Similar situation with Shandy.

These arent miss management issues, these are examples of highly paid individuals not controlling themselves.

Btw, anyone hear the Liverpool fan lose it at Robbie Savage on 606? absolutely fantastic. The truth hurts sometimes.

With respect to Barkley, he needs to go on loan. Those who think he doesn't, must have been watching a different player to me. Many better talents have benefited from loan deals, and hopefully one will help him mature into the player we all want him to be.

Other managers would have just fined him. That's why the rabbit will never win a trophy.

Do you perchance own a chain of pie shops and ale houses that suffered hardship after your best customers left?

If Barkley was good enough, he'd stay but our midfield, including subs, is strong, too strong to guarantee him a lot of time on the pitch at the moment. This is not a transfer, it's a temporary airing.

Ruddy is the only example I can think of where we let a player go who then went on to better things and in that case I think it was probably Ruddy himself who wanted to go as he was never going to get back a starting birth once Howard was installed. Players who don't make it aren't good enough.

I also think a lot of people underestimate the level of the championship. It is a hell of a lot better than it used to be, we have 8 or 9 teams in it who rightfuly believe they should be promoted. It is very competitive. It would be good prep for Barkley.

And Michael 086,

Your point with the loans is bothering me. The fact that you think not a lot of loans doesnt work isn't because they are loaned out, its because theyre not good enough! Beckham clearly had potential, Osman is also a very decent Prem player. I would also add Coleman to that, although hes gone downhill a bit now, that loan spell at Blackpool did him the world of good and now hes a good member of the squad. Baxter, Forshaw, Wallace etc are not good enough, simple as, and for you to say that was because of their loans is deluded, I'm sorry!

Is Barkley at the same level as Baxter et al? Is he the same level than Beckham at his age? Closer than the first lot, definitely yes! Because he looks good at such a young age anyway, means him having first team football at a good championship club is going to do wonders for his confidence and ability.

The cold hard truth is though that we are down to the bare bones and have the smallest squad in the Premier Lleague. To load out our best youngsters would be madness — we need them!

But we have had so many promising young players over the years who have taken huge amounts of abuse. Colin Harvey and Kevin Ratcliffe spring to mind as players who have survived it, but I suspect there are many who have suffered badly from it and failed. We should be more conscious of it than we are, as individual supporters.

And that's my point: we are told repeatedly that Everton's Academy is 'one of the best' — in which case, I would hope that we were bringing through only the cream of the crop in the first place; players that at least stand a better chance than most of making the grade.

Some people a far too quick to defer to the wisdom of our Academy staff and the decisions they are making — decisions that are clearly not bearing fruit, based on a recent harvest of... er... not very much to write home about in the way of product.

Okay, Rodwell, yes.... But he should 1000 times better than he is — that is presumably what Man City saw.... Because his recent Everton performances do not in any way justify a pricetag of £12M to £17M.

But this thread is about loaning out Ross Barkley — arguably the most exciting prospect in the Everton Academy. Maybe loaning him out to the Championship will have the desirred effect — getting him loadsa gametime, ironing out the errors, building confidence. But all this will occur outside of Everton's control.

Does that amount to a tacit acceptance that out coaching doesn't hack it? Or do the potential benefits listed by many outweigh the equally likely downsides: bad habits, poor coaching, risk of injury, confidence broken though being downgraded from the Premier League to the Championship?

No-one can really know... But that doesn't stop the wild extrapolation from quite a few on here about how beneficial a Championship loan could be in Barkley's development. I'm just saying I don't agree.

But I want a perfect world in which our coaches are the absolute best and know exactly what they are doing with the precious charges in their care... well, that's the hype — but the truth, as we saw last season, is that he just won't get a game in the Everton senior squad, no matter how good he may really be.

I think that's a terrible shame. I want to see Barkley playing for Everton and being groomed to become a great player for us.... Just like Rodwell & Rooney. Oh bugger!

To me, it comes down to the length of the loan. A couple of months would do him good; a season is too much – not sure we can afford not to have him involved in some part of this season either. A whole season I think is more for players nowhere near ready, whilst I think Ross is somewhere in-between from what I have seen.