Reports: Jelavic out for two weeks

Replacements are not as good but I guess it has to be anichebe or Naismith for jelly. Don't think vellios is good enough from what I hear of u21s this season.

How about this team

Howard
Hibbert heitinga distin baines
Coleman fellaini osman pienaar
Naismith
Mirallas

My subs bench: Mucha, Jagielka, Neville, Oviedo, Anichebe, Gueye, Velios

Neville will almost certainly start. I'm not all out anti Neville, he had a great game against Man Utd and was nowhere near as bad as some people made out against Newcastle (especially as some were giving Jagielka an 8 (?)). However he is limited and I'd rather he started as few a games as possible.

Moyes made the right decision selling Rodwell, we needed those extra players, it's just annoying that a few games after he's gone we need him!

My team:

Howard
Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines
Neville Fellaini
Mirallas Naismith Pienaar
Anichebe

Not the strongest 11 we'll put out this season, but strong enough to beat Swansea I feel.

On the face of it, it would be harsh to drop Vic given he got on the score sheet but it was clear that Moyes didn't fancy him up top on his own, as he swapped him onto the right wing after initially starting up top – unless my eyes deceived me on Monday.

Neville will undoubtedly start on Sat, we all pray it will be at RB but know it will be in CM. As for who starts up front, I don't think Moyes will go for Vic tbh, although he may start Vic on the right with Mirallas up top. Either way its a bummer that Jelavic is out although we all knew it would happen at some time. Though I'm confident Mirallas will get on the score sheet a few times, we finally have someone who is looking to shoot from distance at any given opportunity and he looks well up for it. One of them has to fly in at some stage.

My team would be:

Howard
Neville Heitinga Distin Baines
Fellaini Osman
Naismith Pienaar Gueye
Mirallas

It is fairly laughable in a Black Comedic way that our management continue to play absolute brinkmanship with our depleted squad. Barkley out on loan at just the right time too.

I have written at least three times on the sparsity of our squad. We still have no cover for a number of positions and continue to ask players to play out of position in an attempt to paper over the cracks.

I really cannot believe that fans want European football when our squad is barely big enough to cope with our domestic commitments.

Every season is a soap opera... we loan out shedloads of players and bring in the likes of McFadden, Weir and Hahnemann to the dtriment of the manage'rs transfer budget, if such a thing exists. We have sold Cahill,Yobo, Bily and Rodwell for over £20 million between them and spent less than that on Pienaar (who we already had), Jelavic, Mirallas and someone called Oviedo who we still do not have available to play.

If Jelavic is out for two weeks as has been reported, it means more like a month to have him back match fit.

EFC must be the most exasperating club in the Premier League to support. Manageing the squad must be a nightmare. We assembled a team that is now playing its best and most entertaining football for years, BUT we have no cover good enough to maintain the standard set.

Why was Barkley loaned out with such a small squad to choose from?

Swansea's left back, Taylor, has been one of their best players and is out for the season so it could be a good chance for Mirallas to really impose himself on the right wing. Last season when we beat them at their place, we pressed high up the pitch, so if Vic can really harry their defenders he'll be doing a good job. I'm not confident he can hold the ball up or score again, but if he makes a nuisance of himself it might make some gaps for Pienaar and Osman to exploit.

Moyes gets quite a lot of grief for his man management off some on here and with Vic lacking in confidence, he'd be crushed if he didn't start, and rightly so. You don't drop a striker who scored two goals the game before.

He might be a limited striker but if he puts himself about a bit like he did against Newcastle, the goals will come.

I'd like to see Jags and Heitinga at centre back with Distin at left back. Baines wide left with Pienaar playing behind Naismith in the centre. No hoofball and continue to surprise the opposition with confident quality football... In my view, the best way to deal with injuries is to take the opportunity to be bold and different.

Distin
Heitinga
Jagielka

Baines
Osman
Fellaini (Gibson)
Pienaar
Coleman

Mirallas (Fellaini)
Naismith (Jelavic)

The killer is that the players we have can and should be playing it on the deck... but will Moyes grow a pair and keep it that way, just shuffling the cards he has?

First half he was rolling the ball out to the defence or midfield, even with Fellaini up front but in the second half he was simply putting his foot through it.

We have the players to play on the ground tikka tikka stuff but once Howard starts to flap a little... hoof, same with Jags and his "60-yard passes"

Then again, that useless lump upfront doesn't know where to position himself and as you said, how many times were Fellaini and Vic nearly bumping into each other or being on opposing wings?

Maybe we could do a slide rule pass, splitting the centre halves in two for him to destroy with his burning pace and smash past the keeper?

Maybe we could let him play triangles with Mirallas on the right, knock it past and let him dribble past two defenders before rifling into the far corner.

Maybe let him loiter on the edge of the box for Baines to pull a cross back from the by-line for him to hit first time into the bottom left.

Maybe lose his man, an overhead cross and a scissor kick!

Or maybe - hit it long and hoof it up to the target as this is all he has in the locker.......?

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

It would make sense except Anichebe is shit in the air as well.

I see Mirallas and Pienaar as the bread, Osman as the HP sauce (or ketchup, if you prefer) and Vic as the (admittedly poor quality) meat in the middle. Nice one. Yeah, I'll have a cup of Fellaini Tea with that, thanks.

I used to comment that Anichebe won more headers within his first minute than Saha did in his 60+ minutes

Howard
Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines
Fellaini
*Naismith Pienaar Gueye
*Mirallas
Anichebe

*Interchanging

No chance of it happening though!

However, where I disagree with James and agree with the rest, is the quality of play will be worse, as Anichebe isn't the best, especially at holding up play and distribution. He hasn't got a good first touch, and would just wish he would use his strength a lot more.

But... I would start him against Swansea, especially when we're playing away. We played counter attacking against them last time, and I imagine the Swansea defenders would have it hard against a physical player. Anichebe can at least hopefully bully the defenders and give Pienaar, Fellaini and Mirallas space to score.

We're gonna set up similarly against Utd because Swansea are a very good footballing team, so I would've said play Neville as well, but after that performance against Newcastle, NOOOOO WAY. I'd rather Heitinga there.

Anichebe is a shithouse. I noticed last year that he would always stand on the keeper at corners, that's a short-arse's job not a 6ft-2in forward's. If there's a chance he'll get hurt, he'll make sure he's not involved. Against Newcastle he didn't get close to winning a single aerial dual.

So, er... yeah, Anichebe. He plays against Swansea, bags a goal, then performs reasonably (on and off) until Christmas. Someone who doesn't read ToffeeWeb buys him in the January window for £4.5m (which is subsequently invested in someone a lot better). Result: Vic happy, Moyes happy, us lot happy - everyone bubbling over with happiness.

Come on, it's theoretically possible!

Elbow pad for a slightly worn jacket....?

Hmmmm....

Can't remember who it was against though.

Villa. It was against Villa. I mean the actual goal, not the rest of it. ("Flat" back four - surely not!)

There that should be good enough to take 3 points off any team in the Prem?

Seriously though, I think Moyes (following WBA and Newcastle) will resort to an ultra defensive formation and try to nick a point or 3 on Saturday.

Despite the fans crying out for attacking, adventurist football, his job is to garner as many points as possible and that's why he'll go cautious.

Another thing to note is that our last 5 or 6 away games are at notoriously bad grounds for us including OT, Emirates, Anfield etc.

Therefore we need as many points as possible this side of Christmas. I hope I'm not being too negative, but remember this is Everton.

GK Howard
RB Hibbert
LB Baines
CD Jagielka
CD Heitinga
CM Osman
CM Fellaini
RM Mirallas
LM Pienaar
ACM Naismith
CF Anichebe

Subs: Mucha, Distin, Neville, Oviedo, Coleman, Gueye & Vellios.

The most important thing is that Neville does not play centre midfield. Most people posting on ToffeeWeb can see it.... why can't Moyes?!

As Harry Catterick once sang: "Dreams can come true". No, wait a minute, it was that one-eyed 90s pop dingbat, Gabrielle.

Thank fuck for that, as most of the fans are idiots. There are loads of managers in football who are lucky to be there, and in fact are clearly there simply on their reputations as players. Many an educated and intelligent fan could replace them and improve on their performance (if they could get over the man management barrier of controlling similarly stupid players). Moyes, however, is one of the few who do not fall into this category.

Of course he's frustrating, and he doesn't always do what I'd do if I got the chance to make his decisions, but over a period of time he's proved himself to be consistently competent in his job (at the very least). The ridiculous overreactions to Monday night's result, which was down to totally inept officiating far more than it was anything else, is clear evidence of this.

We basically won a game 4-2, outplayed a very good opposition (who were able to bring on an absolutely top class striker at half time) and deserved to go 3rd in the league (only behind Man United on goal difference) yet somehow as a result of this Moyes is clueless and three of his players are totally shit and we need to never play them again to stand any chance of a result.

The seemingly received wisdom on Toffeeweb following last Monday is crazy. Whilst Neville and Osman isn't exactly my idea of a dream combo, they were the central midfield partnership that absolutely dominated Newcastle's in the first half. They won the ball regularly and used it simply but wisely, with Osman (as ever) providing movement and intelligence in possession combined with work rate in defence, and Neville (as ever) providing the tactical intelligence and protection his two centre backs need in defence, as well as a recognition of his deficiencies and willingness to keep things simple and retain the ball when in possession.

Anichebe seems to be unforgivable in the minds of many for having 'bad body language', a minor dispute with the manager (which he clearly backed down from), and earning £30k a week. He came on, ran his arse off, scored two goals including a last minute winner out of nothing, yet somehow, because he's still guilty of not being Nikica Jelavic, he's shit. Osman had a generally good game, but he gave the ball away that led to a goal and that seems to completely wipe out the other 94:58 of the game in the minds of the fans.

So yeah, whilst I'd love a seat next to Davey to whisper sweet attacking ideas in his ear, I'm hugely thankful that we have a manager like him. Neville and Osman don't 'weasel' their way in, they get in our (weakened) team because of extremely important footballing qualities that I'm afraid if you can't see them, you don't really know as much about football as you think you do, you just know what to say to appeal to the lowest common denominator in a crowd (albeit a virtual one on here) and bluff your way through a conversation.

Interesting thought, Mike. But I think it would be unwise to denigrate the intelligence of the fans. Most of us are active in the working life and we have seen a great deal of "the ways of the world." I do not believe that you have to be a genius in order to manage a football team. Please do also keep in mind that athletes are not brightest people around. Did you ever feel enligtened by the comments of Sky's panel of experts? Do they ever say something that you did not already know? All you ever get is frivolities thrown in your face. Why are people so impressed with someone like Mourinho? Never did a single clever sentence come out of his mouth; all I ever saw was an arrogant little princess telling the world how unique she is.

As far as I can see, Moyes is a great motivator, but a tactical genius he is not. He is capable of setting the agenda, but he is at a loss as soon as a counter-move has been made. I believe that a time will come when you will have football coaches with little or no background as professional footballers.

By the way, I think Duncan Ferguson is going to be excellent manager. Having read some interviews with him, he strikes me as a very reflective man who knows a thing or two about human nature. Add to this the number of top coaches he has played under. Something good is sure come out of it.

Most of our domination against Newcastle came down both flanks. To imply that Neville was somehow instrumental in this quality play is waffle.

How right you are. That's why fans don't run football clubs

Martin Mason #179 - 'How right you are. That's why fans don't run football clubs.'

HMS Arrogance had been moored, unloaded, in Humanity for two full days. Her scrubbed decks soaked up the greeting rays of dawn and returned them, beaming, through shiny porthole quarters, clean, re-stocked and dressed, fit and ready to sail from port that morning. High in the masts above Humanity two monkeys sat, meticulously picking fleas from each others fur as the sailors returned, satiated and brimming with raucous stories from the night before, loaded with memories retained to keep their humour high as they sailed to their next port of call, Humility.

Full of spirit, the crew were good, and strong but all wore a veil of trepidation, for they knew the forthcoming journey would be arduous, and long, and some may never disembark to experience the treasures of the next port of call.

High above them the monkeys disengaged and scrabbled down the masts to see what bounty the crew had relieved from port.

'Oh, for God's sake,' one sailor was heard to have said to another 'hasn't someone kicked those fuckers off?!'

The crew smiled to each other, allowing the monkeys to jump on their shoulders as the anchor raised and the vessel set sail to the sunset. In hope.

I was going to list some of what it takes to be a good coach, but didn't bother because I forgot ' being a fan ' automatically barrs me from having any football knowlwdge and /or running a Club on or off the field.

Despite having been a player with medals and cups, player/coach where just staying up was a result, a club Secretary dealing with both the LCFA and the Lancs FA, Fitness trainer, Coach with cups and medals.

And I know that all the usual smart arses will say that it's the Prem we're talking about here not your low level.

But.

Football is a simple game for boys, played by men, for a kings ransom, made complicated by bullshitters. There are some things you do do, somethings you don't do.

All this is opinion, just like ' fans shouldn't run football clubs '.

Where does that leave Bill in the great scheme of things then?

Ciaran, to deny the part Phil Neville played in the first half is as pure an example of fitting the evidence to fit your opinion as you're ever likely to find. I know he's not Carlos Valderrama or Xavi Hernandez, but he just sits in the right position, picking up loose balls, blocking angles for opposition passes, tracking runs, filling in for other players who go forward and the other little things players in that role need to do to allow a team to be effective. I'm would have thought you'd pride yourself on being aware of that sort of thing where many fans don't seem to be. He doesn't do massive amounts in possession, but he did shift the ball nicely from side to side a couple of times to keep Newcastle stretched and mean there were spaces for our better players to work with in attack.

Mike, I enjoyed your metaphor, but I didn't understand it. I'm not sure what I said that was arrogant, I simply pointed out that I think most fans are idiots. Toffeeweb generally has a far higher standard of contribution than most websites, and you get plenty of absolute nonsense on here. Other sites are far worse, and the fans who still aren't internet literate come out with far worse, you only have to listen to some of chants to get an idea of who's out there under the banner of being a 'football fan'. Maybe I'd be proved wrong on the use of the word 'most', but I doubt out.

Derek, for starters, you say "but didn't bother because I forgot ' being a fan ' automatically barrs me from having any football knowlwdge and /or running a Club on or off the field." They call that a straw man argument. You're putting words in my mouth that I simply didn't say, because it makes you look better. If I'd said that being a fan bars you from having any football knowledge I'd be a prime example of an idiot wouldn't. Good job I didn't say it then hey? However, I don't really want to argue with you, mostly on the grounds that you seem so sensitive I don't want to upset you. I'll stand by the phrase that 'most football fans are idiots', but let's just agree that you're in the (up to) 49% of them who aren't until you give us more evidence to the contrary.

Did anyone except Ciaran actually read past the first line?! Or did you get so angry your fingers leapt to the keyboard immediately? There's a bit where I defend Victor Anichebe.

Well done Martin you're now in a majority of 2 instead of 1, keep at it in another 3mths it might be 4, then 8 and in a year there might be 16 of you

I would never claim to be in a majority on this board because it is a board where critics voice their opinion. I wouldn't be surpised though if I were in the majority even here because the majority tends to be silent and only the extremes being noisy. I'm very much in a majority of EFC fans though I'd say?

I like this board though because others are just echo chambers where only the devoted come to pray, I do like to see opposing views. Even though I often defend the board I do recognise that they are only human and are guilty of often serious errors.

I'm quite aware of the importance of work done off the ball.. however, you're over egging the pudding.

In Newcastle game Neville didn't move into space, didn't close down... and never wanted the ball.