Howard's cautious optimism

Okay, you Timmy are a weak link in our team. Already, in this brill season you have cost us – 2/3 is appalling, command your area FFS. YOU are not a top-4 keeper. I see a future, not too far away, where my beloved EFC will be a Chumps League breed, but you will not at that point e our 1st pick place safe goalie.

Some of the goals he has let in are deplorable and his performances surely cannot instill confidence in the defence.

Moyes is no fool and will know this.

But, at the same time he makes too many unforced errors too, the one at Blackburn last season being right up amongst the worst.

I added to a thread earlier in the week to say that he probably is the best we could afford right now, but there is no harm in chasing Jack Butland again next summer.

The only person who "cost us" in the Newcastle game was that crappy Assistant Referee who missed Vic's goal AND gave Felli offside.

Keepers have dodgy phases, and I think Howard may be in one now, but I don't see any reason to think he's declining. We need to review this at the end of the season, not after a handful of questionable displays. He's basically a good keeper.

Having said that, Mucha is not the back up we need. It would be sensible to get a bit of money by moving him on in January - doesn't his contract expire in the summer? - and investing (ha-ha) in someone to actually challenge TH.

The Newcastle game might not have been Timmy's finest hour; but having been a pretty rubbishy goalkeeper in my day (one game - and only one - on the hallowed turf of the Grand Old Lady, as a schoolboy, in 1957) I will defend the "star jump" with my dying breath. Watch Ba's movement, I was absolutely convinced that he was going to chip.

To be fair, I'd slightly revise my earlier comment. The Newcastle goals were not his "fault" as such - but I really think he could have done better with both of them. The first goal: it was a lazy dive and he got his angles wrong. (Ba shouldn't have been allowed to get in that position, which is down to others.) The second: he overcommitted to the star jump. I know the star jump works sometimes - and the fact that he looked like a fool is neither here nor there - but he didn't respond to the actual danger, he just went into "auto mode". Insufficient alertness, if you ask me. Wakey, wakey, Tim lad!

As well as that, his judgement on crosses is well dodgy at the moment. Of course, the Southampton goal wasn't just down to him but he didn't exactly cover himself in glory, did he? ("Shall I, shan't I?) Anyway, as I said, I think he's basically a good keeper and there's no need to panic about him right now.

Hats off to you for playing on the hallowed turf! That must have been brilliant. I'm dead jealous. No, really, I am. Closest I got to anything like that was playing at Melwood! Yeah, well the manager of our under-16s youth club side worked there and he organised a game against an LFC U-16s side. This was around 1976. We lost 2-0. I was centre forward... and I hardly got a kick!

Tim Howard was blameless, it's like saying a keeper should anticipate a deflection.

Anyone who's played could see it was a forwards lucky mistake resulting in a goal.

I'm thinking of a number... and it's not 4th. No, it's not lower. It's higher!

I'd go as far to say that the first goal from Ba was miss hit too.

If you pause the footage of both goals just before he hits the ball, i'd say Howard did nothing wrong.

He either miss hit them both or they were very cleverly disguised finishes.

Tim Krul and Joe Hart both look like they are going to be worldbeaters, but neither are there yet.

We've had a top start, playing great stuff. And all I can think about is the derby.

We've got 2 away games next, they've got 2 at home fresh off smashing Norwich.

The natural pessimist in me sees this optimism dwindling. Hope I'm wrong and this very special test gets passed. 4 points from these away games and then completely outclass the shite. Will make my year.

"The standard of goalkeeping in the Premiership is not good..."...nonsense!

I would say that the standard of goalkeeping has never been higher! Perhaps one or two of the elder statesmen are looking a little less like clean-sheet-machines than was the case previously; but the season is only half-a-dozen games old.

Just as a matter of interest, I borrowed the DVD of the "Stanley Matthews" final recently (1953 - or was it '54 - Blackpool 4 Bolton 3) and I reckon the average Division 2 keeper of today would have saved six of those goals.

Harry Enfield's Old Football Sketch

[a href="http://..." target="_blank"]Liverpool Echo[/a]

But 25/30 years ago you had Southall, Jennings, Shilton, Parkes, Corrigan etc.

Do you really think that modern goalkeeping is up to that sort of standard. England can't even find 3 first choice keepers for their squad.

Wo would you currently consider outstanding in the Premiership, and who are the elder statesmen losing their way, bearing in mind the two I mentioned (Cech and Reina) are both only 30 and allegedly in the prime for a goalkeeper.

Thanks, just like George Farm and whoever it was in the Bolton goal.

Uncanny, I was just doing my 'Finney on the wing' impersonation at 5-a-side last night for some of the lads (I'm such a laugh) and up it pops on Toffeeweb the next day..

I tell you, Charles 'Charlie' Charles is a heck of a player...

"...4th...it's not lower..higher..."

Now 3rd is a lower number than 4th; but it is also a higher position.

What we need is Martin Mason to arbitrate! He would argue that neither was correct; but that both were.

The thing is, if we finish 4th we have to qualify for the CL - and look what happened last time, we drew one of the best teams in Europe, Villarreal.

I've told DM it's got to be 3rd or he can forget about the usual end-of-season hamper. I think he's got the message...

"Totally agree with Paul 710. It's certainly time we had another 'Nev'"

@Bob(741) - I totally agree. And there's just a plethora of Nev quality goalkeepers out there...

Howard is a good goalkeeper, certainly towards the top end of the spectrum in the Premier League. He's not perfect, to be sure, but I think over the course of the season he definitely earns us more points than he loses, and overall he's given us the long-term solidity we've needed since Southall (not denigrating the superb Martyn, btw, it's just he was near the end of his career and so wasn't the long term option we needed).