Wayne Rooney: has he lived up to the hype?

He was a world beater at the euros, but has failed in any tournament since.

A bit of a flat track bully to me, rather than what I really thought he'd be. I still think he should play behind a striker rather than upfront to play to his true strengths.

It will be interesting to see how long he goes for, a 37 year old giggs or a finished 30 year old Owen?

They have all of a sudden seen what Evertonians have been saying for years: He isn't the same Rooney. He is now just a very good premiership striker at a club that feeds him goal scoring opportunities. The Rooney that created his own luck and did the spectacular, even if it was just a pin point cross field pass with such vision it defied belief, seems to have gone. It went a long time ago.

Has Fergie mismanged him ultimately? Of course people can point out his goal tally and trophies - but that is not all Wayne Rooney was meant to be, or could have been. It seemed to me he became more of a team player... rather just moving the ball along than trying anything himself. That's fine for the average player, but great players pull rabbits out of hats, something you cant do by just playing percentage football. Now when he does try the odd glory moment, they don't seem to come close.

I believe he has lost that something that stood him apart. Hopefully he can rediscover it, otherwise he will not go down as one of the best in the world of his generation, if lucky he might be called one of the best English players of his generation, but that isn't saying much I'm afraid and ultimately makes him ordinary. Massively disappointing.

Something that has surprised me about Rooney is his tendancy to go missing when he plays in cup finals or international tournaments. To me, the 18 year old Rooney was somebody who was going to be winning these games almost single handedly.

Power and will to win are attributes above technique in the British game and that's what he has in abundance.

He'd have imploded if he'd stayed here the mediocrity would have killed him. He does just enough in the armchair ride of Utd but the price is he's lost his drive.

The truth is if you looked beyond the "world beater" hype he's turned out as expected.

Man Utd were playing away in the Champs League and Rooney found himself one-on-one with the last defender.

There was another defender horizontal to Rooney,about 15/20 yards away.

I was waiting for Wayne to go past him but all he did was jockey the ball and eventually pass to a team-mate. The move ended in nothing.

That was when I knew for sure that the Wayne Rooney from Euro 2004 was gone forever.

Now he is just a very good Premier League striker who isn't fit to clean the boots of the likes of Messi and Ronaldo.

In fairness,not many are really. But I thought Wayne would be their equal by now. He is a long way from that level.

Rooney was young at his time with Everton and all players develop and change but where the Rooney of old had sparks of Gascoigne with tricks and guile, that part seems to have been trained out of him in favour of the 'machine like play' preferred by Ferguson. Rooney is not and never has been an out and out striker - he's always been an attacking midfielder preferring to be just behind the strikers or at least ending up there. Yes, he likes to be in front of goal but that's where an attacking midfielder should be.

I still see the original Rooney in there but it's been trained out of him instead focusing on a 'safety first' mentality. We see this bourn out at England level where not only is he played primarily as a striker but also the relative pedestrian approach favoured by many of the golden/chosen generation. Gone is the raw talent and what's left isn't even at a refined level of that talent - it's a shell albeit with medals.

What concerns me for Rooney's sake is whether he can be untrained. If we're to see all that Rooney can be he needs to be let loose.

Ferguson himself said he didn't want to buy Rooney when he did and wanted to wait another season but his hand was forced with the bid from Newcastle. Would another season at Everton have enabled the real Rooney to flourish? I would like to believe it would have gone. Long way to helping.

My Dad had cancer (and died a few months later) but was staying at home in Bootle. I called round to see him before the match and he was basically very frail / immobile.

I was in the Top Balcony level with the Park End goal line. When that goal went in I phoned home expecting my Mum to answer. I was surprised when my Dad answered it. I held the phone up so he got a taste of the Goodison celebrations.

That's what I remember most about Rooney.

The rest - as stated above - is that Rooney had the world at his feet. He has clearly not lived up to the hype or fulfilled his potential, very good player though he is.

Still, that memory of his goal against Arsenal and the then England goalkeeper, is something that can't be beaten for me.

Has he bettered that? I don't think so. ;-)

The word was Colin Harvey never ever raved about (good) players, but had stated he'd never seen anything like him.

Got my first look at him when he came on as a sub against Anderlecht in a pre season and there was that Arsenal game, then Leeds away.

I remember watching one game (possibly Villa) and thinking he has a better football brain at 16 than the 30+ Unsworth (he received the ball, went to play it and the run that should have been made by Rhino wasn't - Rooney basically bollocked him and pointed to where the run should have been made).

I don't know how I'd have dealt with Ronney 'the man', but the player, I'd have put him behind the strikers and said to the rest of the team "He's captain, he's in charge" My 'instructions' to him would have been 'just do what feels right'.

In short, he's turned out to be better than most and still has a great footballing brain, but he's not as good (to watch) as when he was 16.

Rooney tends to go missing in finals?? Did you not watch the 2011 champions league final where he effectively took on Barcelona on his own...and did a bloody good job for the majority of the game

Some points are fairly justified, SAF has turned him into the team player that Man United's Ronaldo wasn't willing to be. These days, it's almost natural instinct that we talk about flair players like Messi etc and don't truly appreciate the defending aspect of Puyol etc.

Wayne seems to put the team first and do the dirty work with the forward play, while I love Ronaldo & Co, I hate the fact when they lose the ball they make no effort to get back and fight; for me, this is a poor example to the kids. Discipline & teamwork is something that should never be underestimated, it never did Nesta, Maldini, Puyol — hell even Lee Carsley wasn't afraid of getting dirty!

I'd take Rooney back in a heartbeat, I'll give him a piggy back home.

Having said that there are few players in the PL today who could lace his boots, in fact the standard of star players throughout the league is pretty poor

10-15 years ago, we had Cantona, Bergkamp, Vierra, Owen, Wright, Giggs and many more who could and did produce moments of magic on a regular basis.

Maybe Wayne should have gone overseas to Spain or Italy to develop as a player. His main problem I feel is that he not a naturally fit young man and in an era where fitness is king, he is constantly struggling to maintain his fitness.

As regards skill there are very few if any players who can control or pass a ball like he can. His attitude is that of a winner and perhaps fewer players possess that attribute than was the norm even a few years ago.

Would it be out of the question for Moyes to succeed Sir Alex and Wayne Rooney travel in the opposite direction to his spiritual home.

I would not be against such an idea, but I'm pretty sure that many others wouldn't agree.

I can't believe that it is 10 years since he scored that goal against Arsenal, my how time flies when you're having fun.

But I think he is the best British player of his generation. In fact worldwide, I can't think of any player who I'd rate so highly in so many different aspects of the game. Of course he can't dribble like Messi but there's plenty Messi can't (or doesn't) do that Rooney does.

An absolute snip at what United paid for him and he's still only 26.

We were 3-0 down at half time. Rooney dragged us back to 3-3, and I was in the Park End, having seen all 6 goals close up. Pity that horse face grabbed the winner with the help of a Ronaldo cross at the other end.
Rumours were that after the game the Utd players badgered Fergie to sign him that summer (I think this game was in March?)

Never seen him play better before or after. Certainly in the last 5 years or so have we ever been worried about playing against him? I doubt it. A busted flush methinks with the joy of the game stripped from him, possibly by himself. I wonder if he did come back to Everton if that joy could be rekindled. I wouldn't bet against it.

He's not developed into the player we all thought he would be, but seeing as he peaked when he was with us, I'm not too sorry about that. I don't bother about England, seeing the way they ignore players from non "SKY 4" clubs - Lampard, Gerrard, Rio, Terry all past their best and the last 2 only just 'retired'.

Ferguson was hailed by the media as someone who would take him to the next step, but I feel he has been treading water for years.

Win a World Cup at 21?
Drag a team almost single-handed to a World Cup win?
Be the best player...
in the world?
in the Premier League?
in Manchester?
Score 60 goals in a season?
Captain a team to x European cups?
Have the same impact on the game as
Pele?
Maradona?
Cruyff?
Zidane
Best?
Charlton?
Ball?
Puskas?
/>Beckenbauer?
Platini?
Eusebio?
Di Stefano

Captain Everton to a League title?....
Get over yourself
boots, laces, fit

Therefore, the answer is no.

He is England's fourth top goalscorer with probably more to come but has been a major disappointment in international tournaments. He has also won all the major club honours so, yes he has become a very good player.

However, a great player? Probably no.

Ferguson has had enough of him and there is only one club he will leave for.

Why? I suspect that Rooney himself has realised that he has traded the fun for the money, that Man Utd are not fun to play for, his heart isn't in it and he is going through the motions. His career needs revitalising because success and titles don't mean enjoyment.

Rooney has the money he always wanted, I was born close to Croxteth in Norris Green, I can well understand the lure of a way out. It's everyone's dream of paydirt. The trouble was that he had to turn his back on his beloved Everton; he did and the way it was done gives no credit to any of those involved.

Sitting at home at night with all he has, he must realise that the only thing he hasn't got is the thing he always wanted but gave away. His first love. Everton FC.

If he had the opportunity, I believe it would revitalise him as a player and Everton as a team. The prodigal son, somewhat? He is still the best we have produced; it would be churlish to turn our back if the opportunity arose.

Trouble is, I can't see him playing for the blues with Moyes in charge....

"Rooney WILL be an Everton player again, and it WILL be a lot sooner than most people are led to believe."

Well, apart from the fact that 'most people' aren't really 'led to believe' anything in particular on this (are they?), is there something you would care to expand on?

I mean, given the caps on your WILLs, do you have something (anything) to give any credence to your claim?

I believe he's a blue but I don't think he'll be back this side of 30, if at all.

It's so easy to sit here and condemn him for moving to a club we all dislike, but they also offered something we could not – League & European titles.

I have heard he wants to come back to Everton one day; let's hope it is when he still has some magic left.

Back to the OP – look at his medals & goalscoring record.

Apparently we offered him £12k a week in 2004 after the Euros despite him being the star man. We didn't try much did we.

"Apparently we offered him £12k a week in 2004 after the Euros despite him being the star man. We didn't try much, did we?"

Well, surely that all depends on what 'apparently' means... ie: if it means "that's what I heard from some feller", then...

I have no idea what he was or wasn't offered but, if we're going on rumour, there was another at the time that he would be offered £50 grand a week.

Actually, I think too much is made of him being an Everton 'supporter'.

I mean what does that ACTUALLY mean?

"I'm a massive Evertonian" or "Once a Blue, Always a Blue" means nothing to me if it's stated by someone who, when presented with the chance to actually PLAY for Everton, chooses to go elsewhere because he might win some medals and he'll get paid more money.

Seriously, give me a winning goal in the derby for Everton and you can keep your CL winning medal for Utd/Chelsea or... whoever.

(Let's face it, it's not as if there's any REAL glory as the winners are one of a handful of teams who can afford to BUY the trophy – same with the PL.)

Remember, what people say means nothing, if what they do is something entirely different.

Of course he doesn't have anything to give credence to his claim, it was just a very childish way to offer his opinion.

How about swapping £50k per week for £150k per week.

But fair enough, more for the essentials - 6 bathrooms, 8 garages, 11 cars and diamond encrusted his and hers toilet roll holders - just the job

"look at his medals" - agreed, but who's he going to show them to?

Everton insisted the 18-year-old forward would be given £50,000 a week if he signed, those close to the striker believe that sum is dependent on performance-related bonuses, which will only be paid if David Moyes's team enjoy significant success. Considering that they finished 17th in the Premiership last term, this appears unlikely.

It is understood that Rooney's advisers have received no satisfactory answers to repeated requests for further detail on a single-page contract offer submitted by fax from Everton on July 5. Most contract offers of this kind span several pages filled with detailed clauses, but Everton's piece of A4 was lacking such minutiae.

An Everton insider last night rebuffed such claims, insisting Rooney would definitely be paid £50,000 a week over five years no matter how the team performed, and said full details of his new contract would be forwarded to his advisers as soon as he indicated a willingness to accept. The insider added that there was no need to say more than "we are offering you £50,000 a week over five years".

Some close to Rooney are convinced that Everton are privately intent on selling him and have merely made a great show of publicly offering the striker £50,000 a week and pricing him at £50m in order to appease fans and would-be season ticket buyers, most of whom remain adamant he should stay. It is an impression only intensified by rumours that Bill Kenwright, Everton's chairman, would accept an offer of £25m for Rooney.

Though that would place the striker, presently recovering from a broken foot, within Manchester United's budget, other suitors are hovering in the wings. With Everton about £40m in debt, selling Rooney would provide a solution to a crisis so intense that those close to the teenager doubt whether the club can afford to pay a single player £50,000 a week.

Well fair enough, it's certainly (when put like that) a LOT of money to turn down and if you were in any other profession, definitely a 'no brainer'.

However to put it into context (ie: 2004)

Let's say he stays and gets a wage of 50 grand a month, missing out on £100k (nb: although he certainly didn't get £150k when he moved and had he stayed, would be on a lot more than £50k a week now).

But remember, he's also an England international and the brightest star out there (certainly at the time).

So there's also boot deals..and Pepsi..and Cheesy Flavoured Wotsits and millions to be made in endorsements..and books...and Sky Street Soccer (or whatever that shite was)

He's going to have (as Phil suggests) enough for as many diamond-encrusted bog-roll holders and as many houses, cars and glittery..erm..tat as he wants AND he can play for the team he loves.

For me, whatever the figure/s, his choice, ultimately, was simple.

Stay with Everton, the club he 'loves' and become very very very rich.

Or go to another club (you don't love), probably win some medals with them, and become very very very..VERY rich.

If you're not an Evertonian and have no allegiance to Everton (or any side), of COURSE you'd go for the latter.

But for me (and certainly the Evertonians I grew up with) there would be no choice.

(I'm aware there's a better blue-ist tone to that, but fuck it, if I'm not a better blue than Wazza...)

I really don't care what Rooney does or who he plays for or how much money he makes and I certainly don't hate him.

However I DO resent him being referred to (by anyone) as 'an Evertonian'.

He isn't, because Evertonians who get the chance to play for Everton and choose to play for Manchester Utd, for more money, imo, aren't.

This was, and still is a distinct possibilty for all the players at the club today.

If it was ALL about the money, then fair enough. Personally I believe it wasn't all down to the player, he was probably taking advice from all sides, including people who stood to make a fortune from that move. I include his own family in that.

"how can you expect the finest talent of his generation, to probably go through his whole career without winning anything?"

Well I'll tell you what, forget Rooney - I'll give YOU a very similar choice.

So you (nb: an Evertonian and an INCREDIBLY gifted player) are offered a contract to play for YOUR team - Everton.

You MIGHT win some medals - it IS possible (don't forget you're REALLY talented, so if you stay, you could help Everton and yourself win medals).

But if you don't win medals, you WILL be extremely rich and because you are so good (and loyal), you will be loved by Evertonians the world over for the rest of your days (basically the name Kevin Tully will be added to the list of Dixie Dean, Alan Ball, Brian Labone...)

Also, keep in mind, you'll have the chance, IN AN EVERTON SHIRT, to cripple Suarez.

And you'll have the chance IN AN EVERTON SHIRT to score a winner against them at the Kop (and 'do a Sheedy')

Maybe most importantly you will be playing for the team you love.

Or....you can go to Chelsea, earn even more money, probably win a lot of medals (nb: no guarantees though!) and be loathed by many Evertonians forever (particularly on TW and you know how horrible some of them can be).

So...have a think about it and let us know if you prefer to go to Chelsea where you'll probably win some medals, or stay with Everton - the team you love.

As Eugene intimates, Rooney was already signing merchandising deals that made him a millionaire at 18. We all knew how good he could become.

As an Evertonian, would you, personally have jumped ship and left your family to take the flack?

As for trebling your wage, I was once offered half as much again to leave a firm and join a rival company in direct competition.

I turned it down as I had a slight problem, what with my current employers being my Dad and uncle.

For a minute, there, until you mentioned the image rights, I was wondering how Colleen(?) and the kids would manage!

Well, off out to congratulate the deludes on a "magnificent" win

Please, Blues, don't let us down tomorrow

Well let's have a look.

Certainly Alan Ball didn't grown up an Evertonian.

Nor was from a family of Evertonians.

Yet it was he, not 'Evertonian' Wayne Rooney, who said..

“I was running back to the centre circle after I scored the second goal against Liverpool and pure elation welled up inside me. I remember thinking, “I just love this place – I want this place forever.”

So in answer to your question, yes, I consider Alan Ball an Evertonian (as well as an Everton Legend).

"I just love this place, I want this place forever..."

Then sarcastically add..

"[Signs for Arsenal for more money]"

My initial reaction was 'you ignorant cu....' - well, actually, let's leave that.

I calmed myself and thought "Maybe he's only a kid, maybe he's only known the PL, therefore he may have simply put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5".

So, for the record, Alan Ball did NOT 'sign for Arsenal for more money'.

Ball didn't want to leave Everton.

(in suggesting this, you are 100% wrong and imo, insult an Everton legend. You also appear to have no idea of the money players were paid back then).

Fact: Ball was SOLD to Arsenal by Harry Catterick because Catterick thought it was best for Everton.

Ball was an asset Everton could profit from and..they did (nb: and if Ball DID make any more money, it would have been buttons).

You see back in 1972, players did as the manager told them.

Incredible as it might seem to you, players weren't able tell their managers to go fuck themselves or "I'm not coming off the bench" (because if they did, they'd be left to rot in the reserves for....ever).

Alan Ball had been bought for £100,000 in 1966 and Catterick thought that selling him for £220,000 was 'good business'.

So he was sold.

NOT Ball's choice.

End - of - story.

(next time, check your facts - remember 'If you know your history' and all that)

He has lost the youthful I can do anything, he has become a team player, no I don't think its fun any more. it's a job its a well paid job and those are very hard to give up, especially when they come with a measure of fame etc.

Is he bright enough to realise and say fuck it, I've got so much now that a couple of seasons on 'only' £100k a week won't be the end of the World, I'll chuck it all in at United and go back to Goodison.

Is he bright enough to realise I can't actually recapture my youth so why bother.

What will be OUR circumstances in 2015, will his legs have given out á la Gravesen at 30.

On Fantasy Island (or in those long-lost comics of the 50's & 60's The Wizard and The Rover etc where Matt Bradock is still winning 2 VCs, the Great Wilson is still running 2hr marathons) he comes back, is the final piece in Moyes's 3rd 5yr plan and scores the winner (while injured, we having used all our subs) in the last seconds of extra time in the CL FINAL.

He then gives his medal to Tony Hibbert who had played in every game (and scored his 1st competitive goal to win the semi for us) but was injured in a freak trout farm accident.

This, I believe, is what all the people who want Wazza back actually REALLY want

....I had a Dream

I'm not as nice as Eugene

You shame us pre-PL Evertonians

When Moyes took over we had a deserved reputation for being an old folks home (Gascoigne, Ginola etc). I for one don't want us being a convenient end to Rooney's career and I think Everton as a Club will see it that way too. I certainly hope so anyway.

True.

Your opinion is that Everton Legend Alan Ball went to Arsenal for exactly the same reason as Wayne Rooney went to Arsenal.

You have 'argued' you see no difference.

I'll add nothing to this, I just want to make sure people see it.

(as to your age, not important - whatever it is, you are beyond ignorant).

I think that the point you both miss is that both Ball and Rooney were/are PROFESSIONALS.

To my mind that means earning the best living you can from doing a job that you do very well.

Eugene you appear to claim a rare, inside knowledge of the Ball-Arsenal transfer. As a local and absolute fanatic at the time, I can say that your revelations are very enlightening (if true).

What I do know is that there were some very well based claims of substantial gambling debts.

Nobody argues that Alan Ball was one of the greats; but that doesn't mean that he was some sort of paragon of virtue.

Paul, I'm with you!

Sorry I didn`t get back to you yesterday,i was at the game.
You have made yourself look a bit silly there with your comments.
Better to stick to getting your point across instead of the playground tactics of "i want everyone to see it".
I don't know how old you are,but you need to grow up,show a bit more maturity in your posts.

Three points (no pun intended) made very succinctly.

Agree with nos. 1 and 3, can't offer an opinion about no. 2.