Wayne Rooney: has he lived up to the hype?

, 19 October, 91comments  |  Jump to most recent
It was 10 years ago today that Wayne Rooney burst into the imagination of football fans as an immense 16-year-old prodigy with Everton when he fired a brilliant winning goal past Arsenal's David Seaman at Goodison Park — but are the years taking their toll?

Read Simon Hart's full article at the link below:

Quotes or other material sourced from The Independent



Reader Comments (91)

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Paul Andrews
1 Posted 19/10/2012 at 07:50:57
Has he lived up to the hype?
Probably not.But seeing as the hype had him down as a mixture of George Best,Maradona,Pele,Duncan Edwards etc at the age of 18 it is no surprise really.
Ian Bennett
2 Posted 19/10/2012 at 07:54:37
Short answer no. Longer answer hell no.

He was a world beater at the euros, but has failed in any tournament since.

A bit of a flat track bully to me, rather than what I really thought he'd be. I still think he should play behind a striker rather than upfront to play to his true strengths.

It will be interesting to see how long he goes for, a 37 year old giggs or a finished 30 year old Owen?

Paul Gladwell
3 Posted 19/10/2012 at 08:07:31
Has he shite, we are forever reading on here how Moyes cannot develop kids or in the press about how Fergie will turn such and such into a better player, well Rooney looked to me like he was on his way to be the best player in the world with us and he is not even the best player at Man Utd.
I have yet to see him show a performance like he did for us against Bolton and Newcastle in the cup or an England performance like the few he played when playing for us, ok he has had great games for them against much better opposition but he was always going to be the player he is now at Utd, but he could have been better in my eyes.
David Chait
4 Posted 19/10/2012 at 08:17:37
Funny how there are quite a few articles going around at the moment on this topic. see also BBC and Huffington Post (that was a good one).

They have all of a sudden seen what Evertonians have been saying for years: He isn't the same Rooney. He is now just a very good premiership striker at a club that feeds him goal scoring opportunities. The Rooney that created his own luck and did the spectacular, even if it was just a pin point cross field pass with such vision it defied belief, seems to have gone. It went a long time ago.

Has Fergie mismanged him ultimately? Of course people can point out his goal tally and trophies - but that is not all Wayne Rooney was meant to be, or could have been. It seemed to me he became more of a team player... rather just moving the ball along than trying anything himself. That's fine for the average player, but great players pull rabbits out of hats, something you cant do by just playing percentage football. Now when he does try the odd glory moment, they don't seem to come close.

I believe he has lost that something that stood him apart. Hopefully he can rediscover it, otherwise he will not go down as one of the best in the world of his generation, if lucky he might be called one of the best English players of his generation, but that isn't saying much I'm afraid and ultimately makes him ordinary. Massively disappointing.

Brian Williams
5 Posted 19/10/2012 at 08:33:45
I'd have to say no! and I take no pleasure in that. He played at Everton, and in his early Man Utd career, without a care and without seemingly being controlled. That freedom of expression and the feeling of "what's he gonna do next?" has for the most part, gone!
If I could put my finger on why I'd be in football management myself, but he's certainly nowhere near the player I thought he'd be by now!
I wish he was, except when he plays against us!

Jon Ferguson
6 Posted 19/10/2012 at 08:51:43
Jeffers said this week that Rooney wants to return to Everton at some point. Would you rather have Fellaini or Rooney playing behind the striker?
Andy Mack
7 Posted 19/10/2012 at 08:46:45
Hes still probably one of the best English players of the past couple of decades but somehow I'd hoped he would be even better. Wether it's the shackles of being more of a creator or just life/lifestyle catching up with him it seems like he's peaked, at least at Man Utd. Needs a fresh challenge... and a stone of weight loosing... er... over here at Goodison... on a free.
Phil Sammon
8 Posted 19/10/2012 at 08:52:11
Got to agree with the crowd on this one. Rooney was at his best when he was a ball of energy. Strong, quick, technically very good. These days he plays like a 35 year old. I don't know whether that's how he's been coached or what. He needs to lose weight and rediscover some desire.
Peter Thistle
9 Posted 19/10/2012 at 09:13:35
He sums up the entire England team at the moment. Not world class or anywhere near. Thankfully most of us don't give a toss about Rooney or England anymore...
Andrew Ellams
11 Posted 19/10/2012 at 09:33:12
I think Ferguson stopped Rooney's development a few years ago when he decided that he should be a number 9 leading the line and not the Bergkamp type player that the rest of the footballing world knew that he could be.

Something that has surprised me about Rooney is his tendancy to go missing when he plays in cup finals or international tournaments. To me, the 18 year old Rooney was somebody who was going to be winning these games almost single handedly.

Allan Barratt
12 Posted 19/10/2012 at 09:27:58
He looks knackered half the time and not bothered the rest.
Is that down to too much money?? Has he lost his love for the game?? Has he had that spark he once had coached out of him. Some players don't need coaching, they have something special inbuilt.
Owen peaked at about 26/27, starting a career at 16 is bound to take it's toil. Maybe a move away from Utd is what is needed, he can gladly warm our bench.
Guy Hastings
13 Posted 19/10/2012 at 09:36:24
Since he joined Utd, he's been followed by a succession of big names and been shuffled around by SAF to accomodate them as though 'It's okay, Wayne won't mind where he plays'. I suspect, however, that he does. I've always said (and will continue to do so) that he's 'Peter Beardsley in a middleweight's body with a dancer's balance'. Maybe after almost two decades of being hailed as the next big thing/England's saviour etc etc, he's just had enough.
Barry Rathbone
14 Posted 19/10/2012 at 09:10:32
In fairness if you have seen genuine greats - Best, Charlton, Ball, Dalglish et al Rooneys youthful audacity and ambition was quietly put in perspective. Being the best of a bad bunch isn't the same as being "great".

Power and will to win are attributes above technique in the British game and that's what he has in abundance.

He'd have imploded if he'd stayed here the mediocrity would have killed him. He does just enough in the armchair ride of Utd but the price is he's lost his drive.

The truth is if you looked beyond the "world beater" hype he's turned out as expected.

Lee Courtliff
15 Posted 19/10/2012 at 09:42:04
I gave up on this "Wazza is gonna win it for us" shit during the '10/11 season.

Man Utd were playing away in the Champs League and Rooney found himself one-on-one with the last defender.

There was another defender horizontal to Rooney,about 15/20 yards away.

I was waiting for Wayne to go past him but all he did was jockey the ball and eventually pass to a team-mate. The move ended in nothing.

That was when I knew for sure that the Wayne Rooney from Euro 2004 was gone forever.

Now he is just a very good Premier League striker who isn't fit to clean the boots of the likes of Messi and Ronaldo.

In fairness,not many are really. But I thought Wayne would be their equal by now. He is a long way from that level.

Philip Quilliam
16 Posted 19/10/2012 at 10:12:03
Have to agree with most of the above. At 16 he had all the potential but If you have ambitions to be the best you have to perform consistently and most importantly this includes at the top level. I suspect he would have been better staying at Goodison for a couple more seasons then trying his luck at one of the top European clubs where his ability and instincts would have been used to better advantage within a team structure that encourages his strengths and surrounded by players with the footballing nouse and technique that would exploit his undoubted skills. I suspect Ronaldo knew this and had the desire to strive to be the best. With all Waynes ability ,passion and will to win he may lack Ronaldos drive to excel. That being said I would love to see him back at Goodison and enjoying his football.
Nick Entwistle
17 Posted 19/10/2012 at 11:08:55
Did Ferguson mismanage him? Absolutely not. He has often brought flair but rounded those players into the Utd machine.
Even Giggs when he scored his wonder goal v Arsenal in the cup semi had long before stopped dazzling us down the wing and had simply become a cog.
I can only think of Ronaldo and Cantona that didn't succumb to the team mentality over their artistry.
Rooney is not the player he was at 16. Philip above talks of potential at that age but he was more or less complete. Ferguson pushed him higher up the pitch and took away the outrageous replacing it with consistent 7s. No one is scared to face him and Utd fans have always had to look else where for their main man.
His reputation is largely based on his Everton exploits. If his career started with Utd then he'd just be a Dafoe.
Anthony Hawkins
18 Posted 19/10/2012 at 11:08:46
I've been saying this for the past couple of years. Rooney is a changed player and in his current playing style is often detrimental to the team as opposed to beneficial.

Rooney was young at his time with Everton and all players develop and change but where the Rooney of old had sparks of Gascoigne with tricks and guile, that part seems to have been trained out of him in favour of the 'machine like play' preferred by Ferguson. Rooney is not and never has been an out and out striker - he's always been an attacking midfielder preferring to be just behind the strikers or at least ending up there. Yes, he likes to be in front of goal but that's where an attacking midfielder should be.

I still see the original Rooney in there but it's been trained out of him instead focusing on a 'safety first' mentality. We see this bourn out at England level where not only is he played primarily as a striker but also the relative pedestrian approach favoured by many of the golden/chosen generation. Gone is the raw talent and what's left isn't even at a refined level of that talent - it's a shell albeit with medals.

What concerns me for Rooney's sake is whether he can be untrained. If we're to see all that Rooney can be he needs to be let loose.

Ferguson himself said he didn't want to buy Rooney when he did and wanted to wait another season but his hand was forced with the bid from Newcastle. Would another season at Everton have enabled the real Rooney to flourish? I would like to believe it would have gone. Long way to helping.

Mike Hughes
19 Posted 19/10/2012 at 11:08:57
I'll always remember the day we played Arsenal 10 years ago.

My Dad had cancer (and died a few months later) but was staying at home in Bootle. I called round to see him before the match and he was basically very frail / immobile.

I was in the Top Balcony level with the Park End goal line. When that goal went in I phoned home expecting my Mum to answer. I was surprised when my Dad answered it. I held the phone up so he got a taste of the Goodison celebrations.

That's what I remember most about Rooney.

The rest - as stated above - is that Rooney had the world at his feet. He has clearly not lived up to the hype or fulfilled his potential, very good player though he is.

Still, that memory of his goal against Arsenal and the then England goalkeeper, is something that can't be beaten for me.

Peter McIver
21 Posted 19/10/2012 at 12:13:01
Was at that game with my brother. We were on a trip from Australia which is home for me now, though my brother is now in Africa.
It was the only game we got to see. People said we were mad for going as we would get thrashed. The rest is history.
So Rooney gave me one of my best Goodison memories. I can still see the goal in slo-mo in my mind.

Has he bettered that? I don't think so. ;-)

Danny Broderick
22 Posted 19/10/2012 at 12:16:22
When we had Rooney, I felt we were going to have the best striker in the land as our number 9 – a bit like how Newcastle fans must have felt, having Shearer up front. I loved seeing him playing for England in the Euros in 2004, and thinking he was the Everton number 9. That goal against Arsenal on his debut, away at Leeds a week later, seeing him goading the crowd at Anfield when he was warming up, showboating against West Brom's Darren Moore.

Then it all ended in tears. When he scored a hat-trick on his Man Utd debut, I thought he was Roy of the Rovers. I have to say, though, that his progress stopped there. Fergie turned him into a team player, that was tear-arsing all over the pitch, mainly to accommodate Ronaldo, but at Wayne Rooney's cost. He stopped doing the unpredictable, and just did the predictable i.e. chesting it down and laying it off.

He will no doubt end his career with an array of medals, and having been a good player. But in terms of what he could have been, he is nowhere near. The Premier League is a stroll in the park to him – but when you go up a level – Champion's League and international – you would have to say he has been nothing more than a bit-part player. While very good in the league, he is not among the best at the highest level – and he could have been. Shame.
Eugene Ruane
23 Posted 19/10/2012 at 12:13:33
Remember hearing about him when he was about 14.

The word was Colin Harvey never ever raved about (good) players, but had stated he'd never seen anything like him.

Got my first look at him when he came on as a sub against Anderlecht in a pre season and there was that Arsenal game, then Leeds away.

I remember watching one game (possibly Villa) and thinking he has a better football brain at 16 than the 30+ Unsworth (he received the ball, went to play it and the run that should have been made by Rhino wasn't - Rooney basically bollocked him and pointed to where the run should have been made).

I don't know how I'd have dealt with Ronney 'the man', but the player, I'd have put him behind the strikers and said to the rest of the team "He's captain, he's in charge" My 'instructions' to him would have been 'just do what feels right'.

In short, he's turned out to be better than most and still has a great footballing brain, but he's not as good (to watch) as when he was 16.

Peter Cummings
24 Posted 19/10/2012 at 12:09:52
Like most Blues, I never got over his reneging on the club and fans that made him,his personal attacks on DM, his activities with old pros and his posturing at Everton/Utd games, yet he admits that only for Everton he would probably have ended up as a gang member.

As for his career since leaving Goodison, I agree with most posters, but believe in hindsight he has never lost his love for EFC. As for a return 'home', sorry, not for me.
John Sankey
25 Posted 19/10/2012 at 12:32:31
I remember his first derby and at half time our end were singin 'Rooneys gonna get ya' at the shite fans. Then he comes on and within 2 minutes he's chasing a ball down the line in a race with Kirkland who was rushing out then bang!! The two of them collide and the redshite fans go mad cheering, only for them to shut up when Rooney gets up and walks away with a smile on his face and Kirkland is left on the deck.

I would welcome him back with open arms because nobody can blame him for leaving, look what he's won. Yes he could be a better player but I think having him in our team that season in 2008-09 we would have won a trophy that season, particularly the Uefa Cup, that's what I reckon anyway.
Sam Jennings
26 Posted 19/10/2012 at 12:44:22
Andrew Ellams @065

Rooney tends to go missing in finals?? Did you not watch the 2011 champions league final where he effectively took on Barcelona on his own...and did a bloody good job for the majority of the game

Jon Edwards
27 Posted 19/10/2012 at 13:27:08
You are kidding yourself if you think Rooney hasn't proven himself! There are too many fans in denial in regards to Rooney and any player that leaves for a modern day BIG club! He has become a world class player with the track record to prove it!
Paul Bernard
28 Posted 19/10/2012 at 13:39:47
I don't agree that Rooney is average or maybe a little more like some people hint at, I think hes still world class.

Some points are fairly justified, SAF has turned him into the team player that Man United's Ronaldo wasn't willing to be. These days, it's almost natural instinct that we talk about flair players like Messi etc and don't truly appreciate the defending aspect of Puyol etc.

Wayne seems to put the team first and do the dirty work with the forward play, while I love Ronaldo & Co, I hate the fact when they lose the ball they make no effort to get back and fight; for me, this is a poor example to the kids. Discipline & teamwork is something that should never be underestimated, it never did Nesta, Maldini, Puyol — hell even Lee Carsley wasn't afraid of getting dirty!

I'd take Rooney back in a heartbeat, I'll give him a piggy back home.

Patrick Murphy
29 Posted 19/10/2012 at 14:26:40
Rooney is without doubt one of the all time great youngsters ever produced by an English team , but he hasn't achieved as much as an individual player as most observers expected him to.

Having said that there are few players in the PL today who could lace his boots, in fact the standard of star players throughout the league is pretty poor

10-15 years ago, we had Cantona, Bergkamp, Vierra, Owen, Wright, Giggs and many more who could and did produce moments of magic on a regular basis.

Maybe Wayne should have gone overseas to Spain or Italy to develop as a player. His main problem I feel is that he not a naturally fit young man and in an era where fitness is king, he is constantly struggling to maintain his fitness.

As regards skill there are very few if any players who can control or pass a ball like he can. His attitude is that of a winner and perhaps fewer players possess that attribute than was the norm even a few years ago.

Would it be out of the question for Moyes to succeed Sir Alex and Wayne Rooney travel in the opposite direction to his spiritual home.

I would not be against such an idea, but I'm pretty sure that many others wouldn't agree.

I can't believe that it is 10 years since he scored that goal against Arsenal, my how time flies when you're having fun.

Phil Bellis
30 Posted 19/10/2012 at 16:47:58
Blimey - some of our readers can't have seen many world-class players.

I hope it's an age thing or things are worse than I thought...
Tom Bowers
31 Posted 19/10/2012 at 17:16:16
The guy has the talent but these days seems to be going through the motions. He has the big money and the big club but it just seems like he is biding his time awaiting something even bigger.
Shane Corcoran
33 Posted 19/10/2012 at 18:40:41
Living up to the hype is hardly relevant when you consider who generates the hype.

But I think he is the best British player of his generation. In fact worldwide, I can't think of any player who I'd rate so highly in so many different aspects of the game. Of course he can't dribble like Messi but there's plenty Messi can't (or doesn't) do that Rooney does.

An absolute snip at what United paid for him and he's still only 26.

Ste Rimmer
34 Posted 19/10/2012 at 18:58:02
I still think we got the better deal even after the all medals he has won. And I also think he may return at some point...probably when hes about 32 and 18 stone!
Tony Doran
35 Posted 19/10/2012 at 19:04:37
Never been the same player since he left Us. Sure he can head a ball now and will track back and tackle, but he never dribbles past players, turns with the ball or stuff like that. At one time he could collect the ball anywhere on the pitch and think Fxck you lot i'll score a goal myself. He'll play the way he's facing and do the simple stuff more often. Still capable but the good stuff has been coached out of him to young. Great players of the past have had to change thier game mainly when the pace has gone but it happened to him at 20. Once better than Ronoldo now no comparison.
Nick Waters
36 Posted 19/10/2012 at 19:17:50
His best ever game was ironical for a number of reasons
1. His part was only 45 minutes long
2. It was at home to Utd
3. Saha was unplayable (for them)

We were 3-0 down at half time. Rooney dragged us back to 3-3, and I was in the Park End, having seen all 6 goals close up. Pity that horse face grabbed the winner with the help of a Ronaldo cross at the other end.
Rumours were that after the game the Utd players badgered Fergie to sign him that summer (I think this game was in March?)

Never seen him play better before or after. Certainly in the last 5 years or so have we ever been worried about playing against him? I doubt it. A busted flush methinks with the joy of the game stripped from him, possibly by himself. I wonder if he did come back to Everton if that joy could be rekindled. I wouldn't bet against it.

Ian Bennett
37 Posted 19/10/2012 at 19:47:00
I rember that game, 3-3 and we were chasing a winner. Horse face scoring the winner against the run of play.
Peter Warren
38 Posted 19/10/2012 at 21:45:41
38 goals in 49 games last season. Numerous assists gives other players space. If we had him in our side we could conceivably win the league. He's amazing
Liam Morton
39 Posted 19/10/2012 at 21:52:01
Rooney is world class, no doubt about it. He can do almost anything, for me he is still right up there in terms of being in the top ten players in the world. How I would describe him is that he has peaked to early, and seems to be on the way down already. Which is incredible considering how old he still is, but we have seemed to have already witnessed his best form which is a massive shame.
He could have been some player indeed. As for having him back at some stage at Everton I would certainly love to see him in blue again!
Michael Rawlins
40 Posted 19/10/2012 at 22:32:15
Still the best English players around. All the world's best players have one position. He gets slated at times as he is told to play specific roles for teams... eg Told to do a job left-side of midfield. He can do it as we'll.

Let him play without the shackles some managers put on him.
Play to his strengths. I still believe he will return to us one day and I will be applauding him back.
Paul Andrews
41 Posted 19/10/2012 at 23:07:30
I have been going to the Everton games since the sixties.
Would only put Alan Ball in front of him as the best I have seen in an Everton shirt.And only slightly in front.
Gary Mortimer
42 Posted 19/10/2012 at 19:21:57
Let's face it. He's a multi millionaire playing for a club that, although has won everything going, has fans that chant "Stand up if you hate scousers", so I can see why he sometimes appears as if he can't be arsed.

He's not developed into the player we all thought he would be, but seeing as he peaked when he was with us, I'm not too sorry about that. I don't bother about England, seeing the way they ignore players from non "SKY 4" clubs - Lampard, Gerrard, Rio, Terry all past their best and the last 2 only just 'retired'.

Ferguson was hailed by the media as someone who would take him to the next step, but I feel he has been treading water for years.

Phil Bellis
43 Posted 20/10/2012 at 01:14:29
"He can do almost anything"..fuck me, like what?

Win a World Cup at 21?
Drag a team almost single-handed to a World Cup win?
Be the best player...
in the world?
in the Premier League?
in Manchester?
Score 60 goals in a season?
Captain a team to x European cups?
Have the same impact on the game as
Pele?
Maradona?
Cruyff?
Zidane
Best?
Charlton?
Ball?
Puskas?
/>Beckenbauer?
Platini?
Eusebio?
Di Stefano

Captain Everton to a League title?....
Get over yourself
boots, laces, fit

Tom Dodds
44 Posted 20/10/2012 at 01:27:45
There is an all-round collection of comments from the above posts that pin Rooney's performances/youthfull zeal/style/training under Ferguson and recent, even past England performances pretty much near the mark.

But... I would like to add – or more like hone – a particular finite point, of his career in this way: I have felt for a long time now that he was always a fish out of water at United,. I don't think he quite gelled on a high personal level with his team mates; I think he noticed that they could see the scally in him underneath, which he endured but never quite accepted.

Let's face it, Rooney was never happier than when filled with the closeness of his Everton mates, full of cocky zeal against Reds/Mancs ...in short, his heartfelt real enemies; his cheek also got him everywhere.

To him, Everton were his universe, his gang, his best mates... everything... and as even he in his older, not quite so scally now, reflective maybe maturing years, filled to bursting point with everything his fortune can now buy, is taking a long hard look at where he is now, and what it all means to him.

Couple this scenario with Everton's recent good form and let's get it right – truly emerging team strengths and talent – maybe pushing the missing boyhood years knife even further in?

I was in the Upper Bullens on that recent Man Utd win, and I watched him run towards us from most of the way across the pitch as a warm up before the match started. As he turned and peeled away back, a lot of people really booed him. If you remember around thar time, Baines was mentioned in the media as saying he'd love Wayne to come back, as did a few other players. I think personally he was trying to gauge the fans' reactions with that warm up 'run'... And if you, remember the next day, he swore allegiance to United till the end!... He felt scorned methinks.

Would I want him back? Hard one.... Really is. He would have to really rise above himself in the 'je regret' stakes to the extent of virtually prostrating himself face down on his native Goodison Park turf, begging for forgiveness.
Albert Perkins
45 Posted 20/10/2012 at 02:15:17
I think Wayne's problem is his lifestyle. The drinking and smoking and poor food choices. Then there is the gambling, the late nights, the womanizing and maybe the heavier drug scene.

He thought he was the best and that he always would be. If he had been at a club where clean living was the basic lifestyle then he might have continued to make progress as a player.

As it is, he is a disappointment to us all.

He burned bright for us and maybe we should be happy for that.
Paul Johnson
46 Posted 20/10/2012 at 07:45:52
I would welcome him back with open arms. Without doubt the only English player that could play for Barcelona and add something.

Some people need to realise life is too short, you need to make the most of it while you can. Rooney would I believe with this current Everton team win us a trophy.
Paul Andrews
47 Posted 20/10/2012 at 08:16:19
Alex Ferguson (11 league titles,2 Champions league etc etc) does not know how to coach him?
Matthew Lovekin
48 Posted 20/10/2012 at 08:40:19
I think when Rooney left Everton, the expectations were that he was going to be England's version of Pele or Maradona.

Therefore, the answer is no.

He is England's fourth top goalscorer with probably more to come but has been a major disappointment in international tournaments. He has also won all the major club honours so, yes he has become a very good player.

However, a great player? Probably no.

Nick Armitage
49 Posted 20/10/2012 at 13:57:09
Rooney WILL be an Everton player again, and it WILL be a lot sooner than most people are led to believe.

Ferguson has had enough of him and there is only one club he will leave for.

Christine Foster
50 Posted 20/10/2012 at 14:48:33
I think in hindsight Rooney did the best thing he could do for his financial future when he left Everton, no doubt about that. I think also Man Utd got what they wanted out of Rooney, drained him and turned him into a team player without the spark. That's gone.

Why? I suspect that Rooney himself has realised that he has traded the fun for the money, that Man Utd are not fun to play for, his heart isn't in it and he is going through the motions. His career needs revitalising because success and titles don't mean enjoyment.

Rooney has the money he always wanted, I was born close to Croxteth in Norris Green, I can well understand the lure of a way out. It's everyone's dream of paydirt. The trouble was that he had to turn his back on his beloved Everton; he did and the way it was done gives no credit to any of those involved.

Sitting at home at night with all he has, he must realise that the only thing he hasn't got is the thing he always wanted but gave away. His first love. Everton FC.

If he had the opportunity, I believe it would revitalise him as a player and Everton as a team. The prodigal son, somewhat? He is still the best we have produced; it would be churlish to turn our back if the opportunity arose.

Trouble is, I can't see him playing for the blues with Moyes in charge....

Ian Bennett
51 Posted 20/10/2012 at 15:09:41
Sitting at home, earning 10m plus a season, I suspect he doesn't really think about everton that much.
Eugene Ruane
52 Posted 20/10/2012 at 15:10:41
Nick Armitage (289) - you say...

"Rooney WILL be an Everton player again, and it WILL be a lot sooner than most people are led to believe."

Well, apart from the fact that 'most people' aren't really 'led to believe' anything in particular on this (are they?), is there something you would care to expand on?

I mean, given the caps on your WILLs, do you have something (anything) to give any credence to your claim?

Aidan Wade
53 Posted 20/10/2012 at 14:53:24
I don't know if there's only one club for Wayne, he's on quadruple what he could hope to get at Everton. I imagine some club without the same wage structure would be interested in signing him if United wanted to shift him (and there's no evidence that they do).

I believe he's a blue but I don't think he'll be back this side of 30, if at all.

Kevin Tully
54 Posted 20/10/2012 at 15:12:05
We have to understand the reasons he left the club. His agent stood to make a fortune, so he was only going to push him one way. Rooney himself was offered riches beyond his dreams.

It's so easy to sit here and condemn him for moving to a club we all dislike, but they also offered something we could not – League & European titles.

I have heard he wants to come back to Everton one day; let's hope it is when he still has some magic left.

Back to the OP – look at his medals & goalscoring record.

Ian Bennett
55 Posted 20/10/2012 at 15:28:00
He's under contract until 2015, so nothing will happen before then from us, it will be a Bosman or nothing.

Apparently we offered him £12k a week in 2004 after the Euros despite him being the star man. We didn't try much did we.

Nick Entwistle
56 Posted 20/10/2012 at 16:14:39
£50k per week Ian, from what I remember. And Stretford wanted to see proof we could afford it, the cheeky get.
Eugene Ruane
57 Posted 20/10/2012 at 15:41:37
Ian (297) you say..

"Apparently we offered him £12k a week in 2004 after the Euros despite him being the star man. We didn't try much, did we?"

Well, surely that all depends on what 'apparently' means... ie: if it means "that's what I heard from some feller", then...

I have no idea what he was or wasn't offered but, if we're going on rumour, there was another at the time that he would be offered £50 grand a week.

Actually, I think too much is made of him being an Everton 'supporter'.

I mean what does that ACTUALLY mean?

"I'm a massive Evertonian" or "Once a Blue, Always a Blue" means nothing to me if it's stated by someone who, when presented with the chance to actually PLAY for Everton, chooses to go elsewhere because he might win some medals and he'll get paid more money.

Seriously, give me a winning goal in the derby for Everton and you can keep your CL winning medal for Utd/Chelsea or... whoever.

(Let's face it, it's not as if there's any REAL glory as the winners are one of a handful of teams who can afford to BUY the trophy – same with the PL.)

Remember, what people say means nothing, if what they do is something entirely different.

Ian Bennett
58 Posted 20/10/2012 at 16:35:48
Fair enough. Most Internet pages say £12k and a 3-year deal, but £50k does ring a bell. Hold my hand up on that one.
Ken Crowther
59 Posted 20/10/2012 at 16:42:25
Eugene #294

Of course he doesn't have anything to give credence to his claim, it was just a very childish way to offer his opinion.

Paul Andrews
60 Posted 20/10/2012 at 18:29:00
Until any of us was actually in the position to earn £100-200k per week we cant truthfully say we wouldn`t take the money and run.

A massive percentage of kids brought up on a council estate, family struggling for money, would have his head turned by the wealth on offer.
Paul Andrews
61 Posted 20/10/2012 at 18:32:32
Eugene,
i agree given the choice of scoring the winning goal in a derby against our beloved neighbours or scoring the winning goal in the CL final for another team is a no brainer.

How about swapping £50k per week for £150k per week.

Phil Bellis
62 Posted 20/10/2012 at 18:48:48
Minus super tax, Paul?

But fair enough, more for the essentials - 6 bathrooms, 8 garages, 11 cars and diamond encrusted his and hers toilet roll holders - just the job

"look at his medals" - agreed, but who's he going to show them to?

Ian Bennett
63 Posted 20/10/2012 at 18:55:43
July 2004

Everton insisted the 18-year-old forward would be given £50,000 a week if he signed, those close to the striker believe that sum is dependent on performance-related bonuses, which will only be paid if David Moyes's team enjoy significant success. Considering that they finished 17th in the Premiership last term, this appears unlikely.

It is understood that Rooney's advisers have received no satisfactory answers to repeated requests for further detail on a single-page contract offer submitted by fax from Everton on July 5. Most contract offers of this kind span several pages filled with detailed clauses, but Everton's piece of A4 was lacking such minutiae.

An Everton insider last night rebuffed such claims, insisting Rooney would definitely be paid £50,000 a week over five years no matter how the team performed, and said full details of his new contract would be forwarded to his advisers as soon as he indicated a willingness to accept. The insider added that there was no need to say more than "we are offering you £50,000 a week over five years".

Some close to Rooney are convinced that Everton are privately intent on selling him and have merely made a great show of publicly offering the striker £50,000 a week and pricing him at £50m in order to appease fans and would-be season ticket buyers, most of whom remain adamant he should stay. It is an impression only intensified by rumours that Bill Kenwright, Everton's chairman, would accept an offer of £25m for Rooney.

Though that would place the striker, presently recovering from a broken foot, within Manchester United's budget, other suitors are hovering in the wings. With Everton about £40m in debt, selling Rooney would provide a solution to a crisis so intense that those close to the teenager doubt whether the club can afford to pay a single player £50,000 a week.

Eugene Ruane
64 Posted 20/10/2012 at 18:59:41
Paul (318) - You ask (me) 'How about swapping £50k for £150k?'

Well fair enough, it's certainly (when put like that) a LOT of money to turn down and if you were in any other profession, definitely a 'no brainer'.

However to put it into context (ie: 2004)

Let's say he stays and gets a wage of 50 grand a month, missing out on £100k (nb: although he certainly didn't get £150k when he moved and had he stayed, would be on a lot more than £50k a week now).

But remember, he's also an England international and the brightest star out there (certainly at the time).

So there's also boot deals..and Pepsi..and Cheesy Flavoured Wotsits and millions to be made in endorsements..and books...and Sky Street Soccer (or whatever that shite was)

He's going to have (as Phil suggests) enough for as many diamond-encrusted bog-roll holders and as many houses, cars and glittery..erm..tat as he wants AND he can play for the team he loves.

For me, whatever the figure/s, his choice, ultimately, was simple.

Stay with Everton, the club he 'loves' and become very very very rich.

Or go to another club (you don't love), probably win some medals with them, and become very very very..VERY rich.

If you're not an Evertonian and have no allegiance to Everton (or any side), of COURSE you'd go for the latter.

But for me (and certainly the Evertonians I grew up with) there would be no choice.

(I'm aware there's a better blue-ist tone to that, but fuck it, if I'm not a better blue than Wazza...)

I really don't care what Rooney does or who he plays for or how much money he makes and I certainly don't hate him.

However I DO resent him being referred to (by anyone) as 'an Evertonian'.

He isn't, because Evertonians who get the chance to play for Everton and choose to play for Manchester Utd, for more money, imo, aren't.

Kevin Tully
65 Posted 20/10/2012 at 19:55:04
Eugene, leaving aside the financial reasons behind his move - how can you expect the finest talent of his generation, to probably go through his whole career without winning anything ?

This was, and still is a distinct possibilty for all the players at the club today.

If it was ALL about the money, then fair enough. Personally I believe it wasn't all down to the player, he was probably taking advice from all sides, including people who stood to make a fortune from that move. I include his own family in that.

Eugene Ruane
66 Posted 20/10/2012 at 20:15:57
Kevin (329) - you ask..

"how can you expect the finest talent of his generation, to probably go through his whole career without winning anything?"

Well I'll tell you what, forget Rooney - I'll give YOU a very similar choice.

So you (nb: an Evertonian and an INCREDIBLY gifted player) are offered a contract to play for YOUR team - Everton.

You MIGHT win some medals - it IS possible (don't forget you're REALLY talented, so if you stay, you could help Everton and yourself win medals).

But if you don't win medals, you WILL be extremely rich and because you are so good (and loyal), you will be loved by Evertonians the world over for the rest of your days (basically the name Kevin Tully will be added to the list of Dixie Dean, Alan Ball, Brian Labone...)

Also, keep in mind, you'll have the chance, IN AN EVERTON SHIRT, to cripple Suarez.

And you'll have the chance IN AN EVERTON SHIRT to score a winner against them at the Kop (and 'do a Sheedy')

Maybe most importantly you will be playing for the team you love.

Or....you can go to Chelsea, earn even more money, probably win a lot of medals (nb: no guarantees though!) and be loathed by many Evertonians forever (particularly on TW and you know how horrible some of them can be).

So...have a think about it and let us know if you prefer to go to Chelsea where you'll probably win some medals, or stay with Everton - the team you love.

Paul Andrews
67 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:00:29
Eugene, you beat me to the "better blue" connotations.

The wage I used was indicative of the increase and was to show he would treble his wages.

If I remember right he was offered a 4 year contract starting on £12k rising to £50k in the last year.

Eugene we will have to take your word for it, as you will never be in that position, that you wouldn`t treble your wage if offered the chance, I guarantee you would be in the minority.
Nick Entwistle
68 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:03:06
Shearer didn't turn down Utd because he'd won the championship with Blackburn.
Paul Andrews
69 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:04:24
Eugene, one other thing just occurred to me, using your logic:

Would you consider Alan Ball to be an Evertonian?
Phil Bellis
70 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:07:47
You're not trebling your pickup pay, Paul.

As Eugene intimates, Rooney was already signing merchandising deals that made him a millionaire at 18. We all knew how good he could become.

As an Evertonian, would you, personally have jumped ship and left your family to take the flack?

As for trebling your wage, I was once offered half as much again to leave a firm and join a rival company in direct competition.

I turned it down as I had a slight problem, what with my current employers being my Dad and uncle.

Ian Bennett
71 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:20:31
The net has his deal as £160k a week with a further £90k in image rights for 5 years, or put another way, £60M!
Phil Bellis
72 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:29:29
Thanks for that, Ian

For a minute, there, until you mentioned the image rights, I was wondering how Colleen(?) and the kids would manage!

Well, off out to congratulate the deludes on a "magnificent" win

Please, Blues, don't let us down tomorrow

Eugene Ruane
73 Posted 20/10/2012 at 21:52:38
Paul (340) - not sure (re my logic) what exactly you mean by 'would you consider Alan Ball to be an Evertonian?'.

Well let's have a look.

Certainly Alan Ball didn't grown up an Evertonian.

Nor was from a family of Evertonians.

Yet it was he, not 'Evertonian' Wayne Rooney, who said..

“I was running back to the centre circle after I scored the second goal against Liverpool and pure elation welled up inside me. I remember thinking, “I just love this place – I want this place forever.”

So in answer to your question, yes, I consider Alan Ball an Evertonian (as well as an Everton Legend).

Paul Andrews
74 Posted 20/10/2012 at 22:18:31
"I just love this place, I want this place forever..."

[Signs for Arsenal for more money]
Brendan McLaughlin
75 Posted 20/10/2012 at 23:11:46
Funny old game. Rooney leaves & he's a "money grabbing traitor". Moyes stays for 10 years and he's "in the cushiest job in football", "unambitious" & "no 'bigger' club would want him anyway".
Eugene Ruane
76 Posted 20/10/2012 at 23:34:28
Paul Andrew (362) - in response to my Alan Ball quote, you say

"I just love this place, I want this place forever..."

Then sarcastically add..

"[Signs for Arsenal for more money]"

My initial reaction was 'you ignorant cu....' - well, actually, let's leave that.

I calmed myself and thought "Maybe he's only a kid, maybe he's only known the PL, therefore he may have simply put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5".

So, for the record, Alan Ball did NOT 'sign for Arsenal for more money'.

Ball didn't want to leave Everton.

(in suggesting this, you are 100% wrong and imo, insult an Everton legend. You also appear to have no idea of the money players were paid back then).

Fact: Ball was SOLD to Arsenal by Harry Catterick because Catterick thought it was best for Everton.

Ball was an asset Everton could profit from and..they did (nb: and if Ball DID make any more money, it would have been buttons).

You see back in 1972, players did as the manager told them.

Incredible as it might seem to you, players weren't able tell their managers to go fuck themselves or "I'm not coming off the bench" (because if they did, they'd be left to rot in the reserves for....ever).

Alan Ball had been bought for £100,000 in 1966 and Catterick thought that selling him for £220,000 was 'good business'.

So he was sold.

NOT Ball's choice.

End - of - story.

(next time, check your facts - remember 'If you know your history' and all that)

Ste Traverse
77 Posted 21/10/2012 at 00:10:26
Running at defenders and his powerful shots from long range have completley disappeared from Rooney's game since he went to Man Utd.

Derek Thomas
78 Posted 21/10/2012 at 00:07:17
And round and round it goes; did Wazza fulfil the hype? No, nobody ever does, that's why it's called hype.

He has lost the youthful I can do anything, he has become a team player, no I don't think its fun any more. it's a job its a well paid job and those are very hard to give up, especially when they come with a measure of fame etc.

Is he bright enough to realise and say fuck it, I've got so much now that a couple of seasons on 'only' £100k a week won't be the end of the World, I'll chuck it all in at United and go back to Goodison.

Is he bright enough to realise I can't actually recapture my youth so why bother.

What will be OUR circumstances in 2015, will his legs have given out á la Gravesen at 30.

On Fantasy Island (or in those long-lost comics of the 50's & 60's The Wizard and The Rover etc where Matt Bradock is still winning 2 VCs, the Great Wilson is still running 2hr marathons) he comes back, is the final piece in Moyes's 3rd 5yr plan and scores the winner (while injured, we having used all our subs) in the last seconds of extra time in the CL FINAL.

He then gives his medal to Tony Hibbert who had played in every game (and scored his 1st competitive goal to win the semi for us) but was injured in a freak trout farm accident.

This, I believe, is what all the people who want Wazza back actually REALLY want

....I had a Dream

Andy Kay
79 Posted 21/10/2012 at 00:15:38
So much is made of Rooney's move to Man Utd being all about him and not enough about how the club also benefited with what little money did come our way. We were absolutely (and still are) skint at the time. We then, with good management, we bought players like Cahill, Arteta, Lescott etc... and Neville, Howard, Saha from Man Utd without spending billions and over the next few years had a team that challenged the top end of the table rather than the bottom.

As mentioned in an earlier post, would Rooney be the medal-winning Superstar with Naysmith, Bent, and Kilbane around him? Would Richard Wright keep them out at one end while he grabbed hat-tricks at the other? Would Big Dunc be able to "look after him" while spending half a season on the treatment table? I doubt it.

Look at his 2nd and only season with us — we finished 17th!!! He was still a kid and couldn't do it on his own and wouldn't have been anything more than a "Matt Le Tissier" without moving to somewhere else where he could learn to be a better player, win medals etc. Le Tissier idolised by fans, one-club man, Southampton though and though... but really what a waste of talent.

My point I'm labouring to is that we moved onwards and upwards after Rooney left and might've been a Sheff Wed without the Rooney money. He went to a club that the RS despise, scored at the Kop end... If there was one other team I would want him to play for it would be Man Utd as they beat Liverpool's records.

Their fans hate scousers but I would anyone would've wanted him to do a McMahon and Barmby and win trophies there? He's a blue (so are his kids and family) and I'd have him back in a heartbeat. He doesn't need any more money for the rest of his life so I live in hope he comes back sooner than later.

Dunc at Newcastle, Bally at Arsenal, Big Joe or Inchy at City... even Unsy at Villa/ West Ham, you all knew they were still Blues and would be welcomed back with open arms by every fan who loved this club . Why not Rooney?
Phil Bellis
80 Posted 21/10/2012 at 01:05:48
Paul Andrews

I'm not as nice as Eugene

You shame us pre-PL Evertonians

Paul Andrews
81 Posted 21/10/2012 at 07:37:46
Eugene,
Your making a CU..out of yourself with the capitals.
You have your opinion,i have mine.
Have a look further up the post,it may help you guess my age.
"Ball was an asset Everton could profit from"?
And Rooney was.................?
Steve Guy
82 Posted 21/10/2012 at 09:53:17
By The time Manure (or whoever Shrekky is playing for by then) decide to let him go, or he decides to go, he will be in the twilight of his career. If that's the case, why would Everton want him back even if we could afford his wages?

When Moyes took over we had a deserved reputation for being an old folks home (Gascoigne, Ginola etc). I for one don't want us being a convenient end to Rooney's career and I think Everton as a Club will see it that way too. I certainly hope so anyway.

Eugene Ruane
83 Posted 21/10/2012 at 10:50:09
Paul Andrews (384) you say 'you have your opinion and I have mine'.

True.

Your opinion is that Everton Legend Alan Ball went to Arsenal for exactly the same reason as Wayne Rooney went to Arsenal.

You have 'argued' you see no difference.

I'll add nothing to this, I just want to make sure people see it.

(as to your age, not important - whatever it is, you are beyond ignorant).

Eugene Ruane
84 Posted 21/10/2012 at 11:07:29
Utd (obviously)
Phil Bellis
85 Posted 21/10/2012 at 11:07:15
" Why not Rooney?" Jesus!
Look at the players you mention, add Gabriel, M Ball, Gray, Young, King, Kendall e.g. put Rooney in with the new list and ask, instead, "who's the odd-man out and why"?
Ken Crowther
86 Posted 21/10/2012 at 11:44:20
Eugene/Paul.

I think that the point you both miss is that both Ball and Rooney were/are PROFESSIONALS.

To my mind that means earning the best living you can from doing a job that you do very well.

Eugene you appear to claim a rare, inside knowledge of the Ball-Arsenal transfer. As a local and absolute fanatic at the time, I can say that your revelations are very enlightening (if true).

What I do know is that there were some very well based claims of substantial gambling debts.

Nobody argues that Alan Ball was one of the greats; but that doesn't mean that he was some sort of paragon of virtue.

Paul, I'm with you!

Brian Waring
87 Posted 21/10/2012 at 12:27:26
Rooney is slated for leaving, but Fellaini, after starting to show us that he is quality, begins to talk of leaving, lads come out with 'Can you blame him' 'He's ambitious' etc, whats the difference between him and Rooney, apart from Rooney being the better player?
Bjørn-Ivar Pedersen
89 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:13:05
It is the way he left us witch makes me not wanting that fatf... back.
If he rejoin Everton, then I put my support for the club on a hold til he retire or go somewhere else. I just can't find any tiny bit of sympathy for him.
We have Jelavic so we do not need him.
Tom Dodds
90 Posted 21/10/2012 at 08:02:42
Re the 'money to keep him' angle: Imagine if the club had been bought by someone with money at that time — I don't mean the 'Sheik' angle... just someone who had more money than Betty Turpin's lad...?
Paul Andrews
91 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:06:58
Eugene,

Sorry I didn`t get back to you yesterday,i was at the game.
You have made yourself look a bit silly there with your comments.
Better to stick to getting your point across instead of the playground tactics of "i want everyone to see it".
I don't know how old you are,but you need to grow up,show a bit more maturity in your posts.

Eugene Ruane
92 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:14:50
Fine Paul, I'm stupid, you're dead smart and Wayne Rooney and Alan Ball left Everton for exactly the same reasons, you win.

Ken Crowther
93 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:20:15
Eugene #634

Three points (no pun intended) made very succinctly.

Agree with nos. 1 and 3, can't offer an opinion about no. 2.

Eugene Ruane
94 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:27:12
Good one Ken (satire lives!) and thanks for the education. Alan Ball, what a greedy little bastard he was eh? I now see no difference between him and Rooney. You, like Paul, have crushed me and my piss-weak arguments.
Paul Andrews
95 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:55:19
That`s that one wrapped up then.

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