Everton snatch a draw from the jaws of victory

, 3 November, 271comments  |  Jump to most recent
Fulham 2 - 2 Everton

Match Summary

Kevin Mirallas was declared fit and thankfully started the game, switching sides with Steven Pienaar, back in the side after his one-match suspension. Johnny Heitinga is preferred in defence for Sylvain Distin, who is on the bench, where Duffy was a late replacement for Anichebe, who was unwell.

After a bright start with three Everton shots on goal, Neville fouled Berbatov and Ruiz curled in a good free-kick around the wall that Howard could only push onto the post and in off the back of his head. An early goal given up again!

Everton pressed but looked poor at the back when Fulham broke and Berbatov ended up shooting at Howard. Baines got a good run in but was blocked, as the Blues continued to press the home side but with no real end product.

Everton's first corner was delivered fast but a little low from Baines, and Osman made his third shot from a little too far out. Fulham finally got some meaningful possession after 19 mins, a sign of Everton's dominance in possession, Diara then cut down Osman.

Pienaar playing down the right got a decent cross in but Jelavic was beaten to it by Schwarzer. Pienaar won another corner with at least five Everton players waiting for his cross. But Baines's delivery was again defended away and it was soon Fulham's chance from a corner, also defended away.

Ruiz tried to curl one from the corner of the Everton box that was well wide. Coleman then put in a good cross but Fellaini didn't seem to react, and Baines won another corner, this time from the left but Schwarzer punched it away. Jagielka fired a ball in direct at Jelavić but his first touch on a difficult ball let him down. Everton kept working hard, winning another corner that caused more danger but no goal.

More excellent direct ground play saw Fellaini almost put Jelavic in, and then a great cross from Baines after a glorious one-two with Pienaar but Jelavic chose to head it and botched a good chance very badly. Coleman danced in from the right and fired in low and hard but too close to Schwarzer. Riise was then booked for taking out Coleman.

Another dangerous free-kick given away but Fulham elected to clip it in and the turnover allowed Everton to attack again, Fellaini being denied as he drew back to fire. Jagielka then lashed one in that was almost deflected inside the Fulham goal. Another corner and then another ball in too close to Schwarzer.

Another incredible chance for Jelavic on a lucky backpass that fell in his path and normally he would have gladly chipped home but this time hit it far too hard.

No changes for the second half. Everton resumed the offensive, with Jelavic and Fellaini exchanging passes, out to Mirallas for a good cross and another shot from Osman, blocked. A brilliant free-kick, glanced by Jagielka, and Heitinga bizarrely 1 yard out either allowed it to bounce through and in or totally missed it. Whatever, the best chance of the game, totally squandered!

At he other end, Riise's low cross went past four Everton players but thankfully no Fulham shirts anywhere near it. A dreadful Jelavic midfield reverse giveaway saw Everton in all sorts of trouble at the back.

Finally, the Belgians came together, to put Everton back in the game. A brilliant Mirallas run in and superb textbook cutback from the byeline that Marouane Fellaini side footed neatly into the back of the net. 1 - 1 and all to play for...

Berbatov did very well to get in on Howard who palmed away his shot brilliantly. Riise was then replaced by Di Jagger, and Fulham noticeably upped their game in response, making it an absorbing contest that could still go either way, despite Blues dominance. Pienaar fired one in from distance that flew past the near post.

Another brilliant cross from Mirallas should have been converted by Pienaar close in but Schwarzer got a vital fingertip to divert the ball away from him. Maddeningly, good play by Everton saw Jelavic hanging out wide when he should have been waiting on the penalty spot.

Jelavic was given a better chance as Fellaini rolled the ball in to him but he delayed the first-time strike the ball needed, allowing a defender to put him off. Jol then switched Kacaniklic with Sidwell. Mirallas turned well but too long to think about it and blasted wide.

Another glorious move wasted as Mirallas again centered, the ball falling awkwardly to Osman who blasted well wide. And again, the almost identical move saw Mirallas's cross astoundingly evade everyone. But finally, the pressure paid off down the left channel, off a Jagielka hoofball that Fellaini controlled brilliantly despite pressure, and he fired Everton into the most deserved lead. You gotta love Everton's long-ball game!!!

Baird got yellow for a foul on Pienaar. Petric on for Diara. Osman tried a stooping header from Baines's free-kick and was not too far away. Hangealand got an almost free header that he put over. Would Everton try to shut up shop or work for that third goal? Naismith replacing Mirallas suggested that the offensive pressure would continue into the final 10 mins.

Fellaini almost got it, clipping one off the post, Naismith unable to divert the rebound away from Baird who was left with a simple goal line clearance. Osman then fouled someone for a yellow card.

Naismith laid in a brilliant cross that Fellaini volleyed first-time into the top corner for his hat-trick but somehow Schwarzer had it covered and clawed it away. Berbatov tried to again get behind the Everton defence but it was defended away.

Naismith was presented with a glorious chance but his ground shot was far too easily saved by Schwarzer. Jelavic finally went off in the 89th minute, replaced by Distin, and what we have we hope to hold...

But immediately, inside 30 seconds, the newly strengthened defence line failed miserably as Fulham tied it up, Sidwell in behind Berbatov at the far post as the Blues squandered another two points in yet another draw, but it was enough to put them back above Spurs in fourth.

Everton: Howard; Coleman, Jagielka, Heitinga, Baines; Mirallas (79' Naismith), Neville, Osman (Y:83'), Pienaar; Fellaini; Jelavic (88' Distin).
Subs: Mucha, Oviedo, Hitzlsperger, Gueye, Anichebe Duffy.
Fulham: Schwarzer, Riise (Y:38'), Hangeland, Baird, Berbatov, Ruiz, Duff, Hughes, Diarra (76' Petric), Riether, Kacaniklic (68' Sidwell). Referee: Neil Swarbrick

Michael Kenrick

Quotes or other material sourced from ToffeeWeb Match Reports



Reader Comments (271)

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Keith Baker
1 Posted 03/11/2012 at 14:26:40
Strong attacking team out today... I just hope Johnny looks sharper.

If we had Gibbo instead of Neville, it would be the perfect line-up.
Anto Byrne
2 Posted 03/11/2012 at 15:48:02
Neville and Howard are liabileven is not working. Absolutely no goal threat in 45 mins of ineffectivties and have combined to give Fulham the lead.

More poor keeping and well words fail me with Neville's performance so far.

Pienaar and Mirallas in the same starting ele football. So let's see what the master tactician will do this second half. Naismith on for Mirallas or Pienaar?
Patrick Murphy
3 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:51:37
No chance of Champions League or European football, we can't keep giving cheap goals away and missing gilt edged chances.
As for bringing on Distin with so little time left , well words fail me.
4 points from 4 games is a miserable return and the worst part is our goals for column is so healthy and our goals against is so poor.
Expansive football is great , but it has to have a better points return than we have gotten so far this season.

Robbie Shields
4 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:53:05
All together now....... Oh Davey Moyes, Davey Davey Davey Moyes, Davey Davey Davey Moyes...... Oh stop shitting your pants, and hanging the initiative right back to the home team you muppet. Just how many fuckin times does it take for you to learn. Pissed off.

A fantastic game utterly ruined by being a negative git right at the end and inviting the pressure on us,,ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

John Audsley
5 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:54:23
Everyone is going to blame Coleman for this defeat but it's the strikers who cannot finish that I blame.

26 chances including some very easy attempts.

Seamus had a good game at RB but got completely lost when he found himself in CM. It was poor from him but we had enough defenders on the park to read the game.

We simply miss way too many chances to be a top 4 team, Naismith's at the end was the worst.

Jelavic looks shot of confidence too which isn't helping the team.

The finishers take the blame for this result.

Paul Johnson
6 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:57:11
Patrick let's keep playing the expansive football. It is hard to criticise Davey this season but putting another centre half on so late in the game unbalances and disrupts the balance of the team. There was no need to change it we were so on top. Gutted but let's keep playing it is great to watch. Jelavic will start scoring again, 28 attempts on goal you can't ask for more.
Graham Skeoch
7 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:58:33
26 attempts battered them ! Some great football but crap sub from moyes ! Jelavic worries me he was crap again today !
Nick Entwistle
8 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:58:37
Blaming David Moyes for that goal is pointless, don't think Jelavic would have been blocking on the line do you?

Absolute kick to the stomach though. Shit balls monkey fuck.

Still, Arsenal and Spurs lost so we've gained on them regards to top 4, so if what you say is correct Patrick its the same for them, and so the least incompetent will finish 4th. I'll take it.

Ray Roche
9 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:00:37
A couple of poor substitutions and some woefull attempts by Naismith cost us dearly.
Tom Bowers
10 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:00:33
Another early goal to go behind but coming back yet again only to blow it.

We are holding on to a top spot but really dropping points again when they should have been in the bag is not good karma.
James Flynn
11 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:02:17
This is weird. We went THRU them at their own place and come away with one point. Fucking strange.
Ste Traverse
12 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:02:53
Enough chances to have won 3 games in the second half.

Some bizzare substitutions by Moyes as well today. Coleman fast asleep for their second.

Edward Simpson
13 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:02:27
What a game that was, really disappointing that we couldn't win and put some daylight between us and Tottenham but it was a fantastic performance from most of the boys today.

I would agree that the finishers should have buried some more chances but there are so many positives to take from this leading into the next game which is at home.

I'm determined not to be pessimistic about it.

Nev Renshaw
14 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:01:24
Bloody Hell! Talk about an eartly Christmas present given to Fulham. We should have buried them with all the chances we had.

I don't think Moysey should have made that last substitution, we were doing just about okay as we were.
Marcus Choo
15 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:02:52
Wondering what happened to our famed "tight defense". Seems like they're not 100% into the game for the full 90 mins. Someone pointed out that our opponents score given fewer chances.

I'm wondering if our attacking mindset (love it btw) is somehow contributing to our defenders turning off since most of the play is in the opponent's half...

James Kirrane
16 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:04:50
What the fuck?!?! I cannot believe that result!
Paul Kelly
17 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:02:23
Drop jelly. Give him the kick up the arse he needs. Bad sub. Invited pressure. How where we are in the league is baffling after drawing the last few games. Fucking sick as a parrot is an understatement. Got to stop giving teams a head start every week. No more 'we could of scored ten' because we don't .
Steve Barr
18 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:00:43
We're 2-1 one up with a couple of minutes to go.

Who do you blame?

The forwards for not scoring more? 2-1 is 3 points.

The defence for letting in a jammy free kick and a gift of a goal at the end.

The manager for reverting to his usual negativity while we're looking very good at the back and still likely to bag a third.

You can bet your house on how an Everton game is going to pan out these days!

Answers on a postcard please.

Joe McMahon
19 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:06:27
I don't think Coleman is a Prem player, BUT the chances missed is why the game wan't won. I don't know why but Jelavic just isn't the same player this season, and Naismith is probably Kenny Millar Mk II.
Nick Entwistle
20 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:09:48
Anyone seen where we are in the league? Top 4.
Anto Byrne
21 Posted 03/11/2012 at 16:56:04
As soon as Distin came on, I'm thinking "What the fuck are you doing?!? Do you ever learn??? Take the momentum out of the game and blow it with an unnecessary substitution.
Sam Hoare
22 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:08:08
Have been sceptical of Coleman in the past but actually thought he was brilliant today until giving the ball away for their second but even so he lost it on half way with 9 players behind him including 3 centre backs who failed to cut out the cross.

All in all a great performance that on a luckier day might have yielded a 4-1 away win. So as it is a point is disappointing. BUT we are in 4th with a good team and a winnable run of games. We have to make sure we beat Sunderland or else I may start believing those who say we have no realistic shot at 4th.

Steve Brown
23 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:09:49
We battered them, a mix of profligate finishing and a complete lapse by Coleman at the end.

Osman and Naismith should have a competition to see who has the weakest shot!!

Paul Momber
24 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:11:35
If this let-down spurs us on to batter the next lot, then it will be forgotten and put it down to character building. The sense of injustice will keep us hungry.
Kevin Tully
25 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:11:48
Extremely unlucky - we absolutely mullered them off the park at their own place.

One thing though guys - I've watched Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle & the shite this season and fourth place is there for the taking.

We have got 3 of the next four at home and Reading away, now is the time to put our marker down for that 4th spot.

Glass half full for me !

Ben Jones
26 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:15:12
For god sake, why blame Moyes?? Putting on a defender to defend a lead for the last 3 minutes, why's that so strange?

Blame the players!! We had so many chances to kill the game off, Fulham should have been dead and buried. Naismith had two huge chances.

The only positive thing is if we carry on playing like that, without Gibson as well, then we have a very good of at least finishing 5th/6th

Nick Entwistle
27 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:16:45
Dam you Final Score... we're still 5th I think.
Kevin Tully
28 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:18:48
We're 4th Nick on G.D.
Ben Jones
29 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:19:15
Nah Nick, we are fourth, level on points with Spurs and a better goal difference
Jamie Barlow
30 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:13:03
I don't think bringing on another defender for a striker who was pretty bad all game is anything to moan about. Moyes tried to see the game out with 3 minutes or so to go.

Coleman who I thought played brilliant was to blame for losing the ball in midfield. Plenty of others could have cleared it but didn't and Coleman also got muscled out at the far post from Sidwell. Nothing to do with Distin coming on.

Nothing wrong with any of the subs.

Just bad finishing and a bit of bad luck, thats all.

Absolutely sick as fuck.

Nick Entwistle
31 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:20:23
You're right, everyone else is taking time to catch up.

Seems there are those fearing we can't challenge for 4th, and yet go up to 4th. Where's the logic?

Patrick Murphy
32 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:13:16
Sam , having calmed down (a bit) , I agree the positives are our position in the League and our attacking play., but WBA and even West ham if they were to beat Citeh could be level on points with us.

We should have at least 5-6 more points in the bag , but we haven't .
We should be second or third on attacking performances , but we're not.
What happens when we have a period where we are struggling to create chances?

BTW our last 4 games were seen by most as winnable and we have failed to win one of them.

Jelavic's body language is also a concern , he certainly doesn't look as enthusiastic as he was during the last campaign.


Ray Roche
33 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:22:13
Coleman may have been at fault but by then we should have been out of sight. Difficult to remember us squandering more opportunities.
David Price
34 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:09:20
Not sure why Mirallas was taken off. We waited 75 minutes to play counter attack only for us to take the best exponent of this off, Could not understand Coleman not releasing the ball and running into trouble.
Jelavic looking off, which happens, he'll be fine next week.
Please keep Pienaar on the left all match Mr Moyes, why tinker and try and confuse the opposition, we arn't the same team.
Distin was brought on to mark Haangaland ,as no doubt he was going to go upfront, arguement is we should've waited for them to make their move before disrupting a dominant display.
2-1 and we would be saying how superb we were, so let's not forget that we have played excellent but it's amazing that we didn't get at least 5 today . Absolutely no luck all game today, God forbid we had a slice of the top table fortune last week, back to the paupers scraps of shite breaks again.
We will take teams by 4 and 5 but away from home at the moment is typical of the last couple of seasons. Hard to beat but don't kill teams off.
Gutted.
Paul Johnson
35 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:22:04
Jamie as I stated earlier bringing on the extra defender unbalances the side so that the guys lose a sense of position.
The reason we didn't win the game is we didn't take our chances but making the sub hands the initiative to the opposition.
Dean Adams
36 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:19:54
I see Barkley and Baxter were in the goals again today
Jamie Tulacz
37 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:19:20
Ben exactly- putting on a defender in the last few minutes to protect our lead surely common sense. How predictable to come on here and it's blame the manager time. Story today was that we absolutely battered a decent team who are great at home just missed too many chances. Agree that Jelavic is off form at the moment but we don't really have much back up. Mirallas great again Fellaini unplayable at times. We have threats down both flanks now. Surely the results will start coming- we're owed a few!
Nick Entwistle
38 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:24:21
Jelavic is being man-marked out of scoring positions. The one touch strike rate is obviously a factor on managers using those tactics, but the room he's creating for more and more shots on goal still means he has a vital role. Shame that it seemed to be Osman on the end of many chances today.
Jack Wilkinson
39 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:26:20
The Distin substitution was not as simple as most are making out. Yes we were looking good going forward but we did look weak to the counter attack, and our offensive nature added to this. We had 89 minutes to see out that match through an extra goal or two but we didn't. Distin was brought on, I assume in an attempt to dull their threat on the break. Had we continued to attack in the dying minutes we would have left ourselves vulnerable to our biggest weakness. Of course they did score despite this but I understand the logic.
Anto Byrne
40 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:22:26
Jelavic is a marked man, what do you expect when he is so tightly marked? He had a couple of half chances, had he had those two Naismith chances on a plate, he would have buried them.
Jackie Barry
41 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:27:30
I was kind of miffed by the substitutions, we were in the lead and on top and Mirallas was running their defence ragged. We should have carried on attacking them.
Mark Jensen
42 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:27:52
Defence is porous this year as we are playing more attacking football which we have all been asking for. I can't complain.
My only issue is Neville does not provide the protection to the back four that Gibson does. Swap them and we would have won one or two of the last four draws.
Roberto Birquet
43 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:24:48
We need a new RB, and hopefully Vadis on loan. Our RBs are either old (Neville), ageing (Hibbert), or not RBs (Coleman).
Jamie Barlow
44 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:30:14
Jackie, we did carry on attacking after Mirallas went off. We had about 6 shots after he went off. Naismith could have scored 2. Felli hit the woodwork. We didn't sit back and defend at any time in the match. You could say Coleman lost the ball because he was looking for an attacking pass instead of just taking out wide or lumping it up field.
Barry Rathbone
45 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:06:07
Only watched the 1st half and even when we went in 1-0 down I couldn't see Fulham beating us.

We've got a good side, albeit temperamental, but annoying to hear Moyes being "clever" again with his subs. Fundamental flaw in his psyche this business of banging on defenders for attackers.

Yew Heng Hung
46 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:20:26
I really don't understand how Everton failed to win this? It is nouse to create chanceafter chance but does not convert any of them.
Tom Bowers
47 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:30:28
Yes we need Gibson back instead of Neville and some better shot production from midfield but not being able to defend in the last minute cost us as it almost did last week.

Is Moyes really doing something to rectify this?
Peter Cummings
48 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:19:07
As soon as we went two-up, I just had that sick feeling we would blow it in injury time, as that's when we tend to switch off, but when you dominate and don't take your chances, you pay the price.

I thought Coleman was excellent, Pienaar too many poor passes, Jeli stunk, Felli great, as was Bainesy and Jags. It seems we're fated not to put more space between us and the Anfield crew – they should have been out of sight by now points-wise.
Bjørn-Ivar Pedersen
49 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:27:24
I must say first of all it was nice to see a match again where the referee and co don't dictate the result.
But I saw other things worrying me, Pienaar and Mirallas is way to selfish...they burn chances where Jelavic was in better position to make it home.....it looks like the boys don't want to play ball with Jelavic anymore...sad, sad performances.
Jamie Barlow
50 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:42:27
Barry, what does 'clever' mean?

He brought a defender on for a striker who did nothing all game with 3 minutes to go.

Moyes trying to see out a game for the last 3 minutes wasn't why we drew this match.

I don't see the problem with it. It makes perfect sense to me.

Nick Entwistle
51 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:46:46
There are Liverpool fans with more time for Moyes than Barry Rathbone.
Mark Tanton
52 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:47:37
What worries me and annoys me is that after going 2-1 up there was a distinct inevitibility about Fulham equalising late on. We are shipping goals and Howard has to accept some blame for this. Just like at home to Newcastle, we paid the price for being slack in front of goal too. We won't compete at the level we want to while doing this so regularly.
Brent Stephens
53 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:49:55
Nick, did you say something on another thread about being patronising?! Having said, I can't say I disagree with you on this one, mate!
Nick Entwistle
54 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:52:40
Can't see Barry having a problem with it either!
Phil Roberts
56 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:49:11
I agree with most on here - all Moyes fault we only got one point.

Except I am struggling to see how he is not also to be blamed for making us an exciting team to watch, creating 26 chances away from home at a club in the top 7, and getting us 2-1 with about a minute to go and a team with a chance of 4th place this year.

Presume it was somebody else that was repsonsible for the first 89 minutes and he is was only responsible for the error in the last minute.

Mike Green
57 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:47:32
Re bringing on Distin, I suspect Moyes would be damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. The point is we conceded late on, dropped two points again to a killer draw and the people who want to blame Moyes for that will always have something to hang there hat on - in this case bringing on a defender to shut up shop. Good job he hadn't brought on a striker, he'd be a lamb to the slaughter on here tonight!

Silver lining is sounds like we played well again, should've won comfortably, so things could be a lot worse. Onward, and hopefully, upward.

COYB.

John Duchak
58 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:30:59
Mirallas was probably taken out because he put in a good shift and with his recent injury and us being up a goal with ten minutes to go, it was the prudent move. I also agree with bringing on Distin to play 5 at the back in the final minutes.

Our problem has been conceding early. I place much of that blame on Neville. Today was twice in recent weeks that his mistake led to an opening goal. Against QPR his inability to win the ball after a cleared corner led to a break and their only goal. Today, whilst one yellow away from a ban, he sticks out his leg to trip Berbatov to set up Ruiz's nice free kick. That's four points dropped from those two mistakes alone. I can't think of anyone else in the side who's made such monumental errors. Without those two mistakes, we'd be tied with City on points and have a four point advantage over Spurs.

Hopefully Gibson is back for Sunderland and Neville gets dropped. Our defense also needs to stop switching off after we grab a lead. We've had too many goals conceded due to poor marking. That's basic...it's not like we're giving up spectacular goals. Seamus failed to pick up the rubbish at the back post. It's completely unacceptable. Our defense needs to be able to defend a lead. I'm not comfortable with attacking into the 90th minute when we're up a goal because we're so vulnerable on the counter.

We can easily take all 9 points from the next three games and have to considering how difficult December will be. All said, 4th after ten games is a great start for us. Our offense is firing on all cylinders and creating so many chances every game. Thankfully we have the talent to come back from a deficit. We just need to stop giving away the first goal and have a strong enough defense to hold onto a lead in the closing stages of a game.

How funny is it that, after the last few years, our offensive production is the last thing we complain about?

Sam Hoare
59 Posted 03/11/2012 at 17:56:06
Agree with mark tanton. Never felt quite safe with the one goal cushion. We could improve on our ability to close out games.
Paul Andrews
60 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:02:18
Un be-fuckin-lievable.26 shots on goal,15 on target.
The usual one a game mistake from the same player costs us the 3 points.
I cant have the breaking up of the Baines Pienaar partnership,even though we were creating.When Mirallas went wide right he cut them open at will.
James Martin
61 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:05:54
Moyes was panned for not bringing Heitinga on against Newcatsle. He borught Distin on this time and gets panned for it. The real reaosn we lost was poor finishing and bad luck. If we're within 5 or 6 points of fourth come the end of the seaosn then we'll all be absolutely sick and the players will have no one to blame but themselves. No doubt if that happens some fo them will be off citing that they want to play champions league football, well they won't have a better chance of earning it for themselves than this season but perhaps that chance has ogne now. We could have really done with the sort of lead Spurs had last season over thier challengers. Let's hope we have some of our usual post-January form left!
David Price
62 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:01:33
Berbatov dived for the free kick, however Neville left a lazy leg out for the invite. Very poor play from him.
Coleman was excellent today but for the 90th minute, the lad will learn.,
Heitinga very good, made us play from the back
Osmans' weak shooting frustrating.
4th in the league, judge us after 10 games, here we are and it is a 3 horse for the title with anyone who wants it for 4th. Why not us?
Ian Glassey
63 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:05:24
The reason we did not win is, missed chances nothing to do with the subs.
Jelly is way off the pace at the moment, I would like to see Marallas playing just behind Jelly and Screech back in midfield that would give us more goals...
Ian Price
64 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:09:14
Bad finishing cost us the game today. You can't expect to be in the top 4 for long if you cannot see out games like today. With all the chances created, only to come out with 2 goals is not a a good return; mid-table players will bring mid-table results.
Mike Gwyer
65 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:18:54

Phil Roberts 909 - spot on mate. Moyes is definately doing the magic.

Some EPL team is going to get fucking mugged very soon - probably Sunderland next weekend.

4th and buzzing - 29 shots at Fulham, something I've not seen for a while as the Cottagers nearly always give us a spanking.


Stuart Critchley
66 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:30:58
10 games in... lying 4th.

I have no doubt at all that Sunderland will be blown away next week.

Good start, we just need a win.
Kevin Day
67 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:24:00
I'll probably get shot down for saying this but I have always believed that a point away from home is always a good thing. I understand the frustrations at not seeing the game out, but we're fourth in the league, playing well, my glass is half full.
Rahul Gandhi
68 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:22:17
Yes, this feels like a defeat! But, we've had only 4 home games which included Man U and RS and have 3 home games in next 4 with only Reading away! I still see a CL spot for us to take! Anyone see half -full?
Ian Bennett
69 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:35:33
The players blew it. However, Moyes has to stop with negative subs to see the game out - it never works, it just passes the momentum over to the opposition.
Brendan McLaughlin
70 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:34:09
In previous years many posters were complaining that they'd readily swop a 6/7th league finish for better football. Now we've got better football and 4th place & yet the naysayers and begrudgers are still all over this site. Glass half empty doesn't even come close.
Andy Crooks
71 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:36:03
Jol was comparing Fulham to Everton. Today showed that to be nonsense. Sometimes a good side will miss chances and draw against a lesser side . We were among other good sides to underachieve today. I am always ready to criticise Moyes when necessary , but today we were very unlucky against a team who are what we used to be; a benchmark or in racing terms a good yardstick.
John Dubay
72 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:27:17
I would say that was our best performance of the season today. We looked frightening going forward and we were just unlucky, but what has happened to Jelavic? He can't seem to hit a barn door with a banjo.

Someone is going to get murdered by us pretty soon...
Jeremy Benson
73 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:42:29
Brendan, how true that is...
Keith Glazzard
74 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:33:32
Jelavic is not 'off the pace'.

A much simpler way of looking at it is to ask why he could slot into that team lst season and slot them in and he isn't doing the same at the moment? Answer - the team is set up differently and we are not playing to his strengths

We have brought quality in - Mirallas obviously - but it changes things. And unless Davey doesn't sort it out we are going to miss out on 15 - 20 goals.

At least at half-time he sorted out how to deal with a team with 11 men behind the ball. No more hit and hope into the area, work it in behind them. Pull them apart.

Should have been 5 0r 6. But that wasn't Jelavic's fault.

Dalziel Kane
75 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:39:58
The late Sidwell goal was a sickener, especially as we deserved so much to take all three points, and was only moments away from another rare win at Craven Cottage. Would of been a splendid result, and much deserved, and Fellaini put in another towering performance, but once again, we got caught out at the very end and Fulham probably got away with the biggest steal not seen since The Great Train Robbery.

Still, fourth in the league tonight, and in a very good position to challenge still, and some favorable fixtures coming up were points really are there to be had, but still irritated by today, some two hours after the final whistle.

Barry Rathbone
76 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:17:46
Nick, I agree!

But that's kopites for you completely uninformed and be honest if motd and the papers are the basis of opinion then knowing which way is up is a challenge.

Whereas if you've watched the Moyes years and can think for yourself you know he has a penchant for defence.

Andy Walker
77 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:34:17
We played some brilliant attacking football and if we'd had a world class striker ala RVP, Mata, Aguero we'd have won by several. Having said that we hit the post had one cleared off the line and Schwartzer made a coulpe of brilliant saves. Just one of those days where being a sovereign state football team would have really made a difference as we'd have had 1or 2 of the world's best strikers on the pitch which would no doubt have bought us the extra 2 points.
As for critics of Moyes, this is beyond my comprehension, the team kept pushing forward for 87 minutes playing expansive football, something they would not have done last season when in the lead. Mind you we probably would have won from 2-1 up last season. The attacking play was a joy to watch though. 4th after 10 games must be classed as a very good start although we all know it could have been even better. As for the doom mongers quoting things like 4 points from 4 games is a miserable return, they can not be watching the blues performances, only QPR was average the others matches we were easily the better side and that should not be forgotten.
Jamie Barlow
78 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:45:07
Keith, I agree to a point but Jelly had 3 or 4 chances today, 2 of which he would have buried ( or at least got on target) last season. I think he just needs a lucky one to go in off his arse and he'll start banging them in again.

Hopefully, as someone said above, we're going to smash somebody soon.

John Crook
79 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:31:51
I've had a couple of hours to get rid of the sick defeat-like feeling.

Just to highlight some of the positives about the recent run of draws:

Wigan away — we came from behind twice against a team that will be fighting for their lives and we are denied a blatant penalty (Wigans 1st was also clearly offside.....

QPR away — we came from behind against another team fighting for their lives and we still were in no danger of losing g that game even with 10 men for the last 30 minutes.

On the derby — well we loose 4 out of 5 derbies in the Moyes era so the fact that we overturned a 2 nil deficit is very positive and probably would've gone on to win if Mirallas had stayed on the pitch.

And today — once again we came from behind and have not lost... over the last 4 or 5 seasons, would we have not lost these 4 games after going behind??? The answer is we probably would've lost 3 out of the 4.

The main positive thing of the recent run of draws is that the team are so confident nowadays... if we go a goal behind so what, the players know they have the quality to score and are creating umpteen chances per game.

I know it's a sickner conceding in the last minute but we have done that to other teams lots of times in the past. I really can't see us not scoring in any game we play. I think (and hope) the return of Gibson will tighten up the currently not-so-solid back four.
Steve Carse
80 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:46:27
Can't blame Moyes for this one. There were individual mistakes throughout the game. Unfortunately Coleman made his two when we had no time left to win it.

The fact is that Moyes has gone much more attack-minded this season – and I for one am loving it. Taking this approach means we're going to concede more. What is a bit worrying though is that we're conceding at the start and the end of games with monotonous regularity. Moyes's teams have rarely been last minute conceders, but already this season we've lost points in the last minute against Newcastle and Fulham (and in reality we did the same in the derby). That suggests a mental deficiency rather than a tactical problem.
Mike Keating
81 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:55:43
As soon as Moyes took off an attacker for Distin with two minutes to go when we were bossing the game all the Blues around me in the pub groaned and the 2 kopites at the bar laughed out loud.

Also why was Mirallas taken off when he was our best player?

Don't blame Coleman — blame Moyes
Jack Molloy
82 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:02:11
I am in New York City right now - yes great timing - and I have spent the last week in the dark with no power, no heat and lining up for petrol for hours at a time while whole neighborhoods here have been destroyed. I went to a library that had power and an internet connection and watched the match on a laptop.

Despite everything I went through this week the Fulham equalizer was the worst moment of the last five days for me. There's no mystery about why we didn't win this. Moyes took off Mirallas and Jelavic, blunting the attack.

You can't comfortably defend a single goal lead at this level once you have freed the opposing defence to come forward. We had to keep pressing and although there were chances to make it 3-1 and individual errors meant we failed to take them, Moyes significantly reduced our chances of increasing or maintaining a lead with sheer funk.

Fulham must have thought it was Christmas. It's not enough not to lose. We have to start winning again. These are stupid pairs of points we are needlessly giving away with poor judgement. Ah well, back to the darkness.
Ifor Hughes
83 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:12:30
Yes, it was disappointing but, for me, my glass is at least three-quarters full.
Mike Powell
84 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:50:21
We should've won by 10! Gutted...

Jelavic should be droped to give him a kick up the arse. Why do we give every team a head start? We need to tighten up at the back, it feels like a defeat, but we played some great football again. A bit like Stoke — were you watching, Gerrard???

How did we not win this game? How can anyone blame Moyes for this result is beyond me. We were so much in control... Look at the league table — we are fourth FFS.
John Ford
85 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:09:08
Andy Walker, spot on. I've calmed down a bit now and can appreciate just how good we were today at the home of a decent team. We battered them virtually whistle to whistle.

The frustration is like needle rash, it's excruciating, but how good is it to see us going at the oppo from both wings and straight down the middle. .We 're great to watch, let's enjoy..

Andy Walker
86 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:06:52
Mike which manager would you have liked to be managing out team then? Aah don't tell me, you don't know. Despite such a great performance as today you obviously still don't think Moyes is good enough. Moyes doesnt get any credit in your mind for the attacking play demonstrated today then, certainly not enough to offset the apparently terrible decision he made to bring on a defender with 3 mins to go? Can you imagine if he done it with 20mins to go, by your logic we'd have lost 8-2. Sometimes players let managers down. Wake up and realise that Jelli failed to do what he's paid for today and we had no alternative strikers to replace him, as Victor got ill just before KO, again not Moyes fault. If we'd had Vic on the bench to bring on for Jelli we'd probably have won.
Wayne Smyth
87 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:04:12
Steve(935),

Things were going great when Moyes had his attacking mindset. We were playing fantastic football and had completely twatted Fulham for 75 minutes. Only a superb free kick after teflon neville had conceded a foul in a dangerous area had given fulham anything at all.

Then as soon as we get in the lead, the attacking mindset that had worked so well goes out the window and the old moyes is back with a vengeance taking off the only striker and putting on another central defender.

Because of this change, it's not surprising that:

1) Fulham were able to throw the kitchen sink at us in such safety.
2) Coleman had no-one to pass to when he broke to the halfway line
3) We had no out-ball during fulham attacks.
4) We looked a bit clueless in defence with players probably uncertain of who was doing what.

We ended up hanging on meekly when we'd already shown we were by far the better team. We weren't playing Barcelona away, there was no need to surrender

This everton side is actually not very good at defending. Moyes has slowly replaced defenders with attack minded players who can play football. Both are fullbacks are poor defenders(but great wing-backs). We are a small side who is far better playing on the deck than trying to defend against a 6'5" hangeland and co with 10 players in our area.

Moyes needs to have a bit more backbone and more confidence in his players to keep doing what had worked so well. Passing up the initiative to other teams by having no striker on the pitch and all 11 behind the ball has never worked for us and never will.

Andy Walker
88 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:18:58
Jack, a true Evertonian – been through all that shit but still the worst moment of the week was the 90th min today. Good luck mate and hope things get much better for you soon.
Brent Stephens
89 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:20:12
Wayne, you say as soon as we scored Moyes brought on the subs. Is that true? As soon as we scored?

And you think Baines isn't a good defender?!

Chris James
90 Posted 03/11/2012 at 18:52:37
Just got back in from the game and feeling gutted.

Even the Fulham fans sitting next me where asking 'how did you not win that?' and I must admit it felt like a defeat for a while.

I, like many others on here, have spent the hour travel back thinking what might have been and counting on 6-8 other points we could have, specifically:
Today - should clearly have won it (+2)
Home to Newcastle - robbed by officials of 2 good goals (+2)
Away to QPR - robbed by officials of 1 great winger, with 11 men we'd have hoped to win this (+2)
Away to Wigan - stone cold penalty denied (+2)

Of course it's a stretch, but with a bit more luck and better refs we could be top of the table right now. As it is we stand 4th and despite my frustration that things aren't even better, I must admit to being totally elated and proud of the way we're playing right now, with considerable attacking verve and skill and without fear.
We totally dominated this game and were taking them apart on both flanks. If Jelavic was on the form of a few weeks back, we could have easily scored 5 today and not been flattered (in truth I think he was our poorest player on the day). Several Fulham fans went as far to say that we were the best side they'd seen, far better than City and this was at 2-1 down when they were smarting - I know the Cottagers are the most polite and welcoming around, but that's still a pretty amazing thing to hear from opposing fans.

Suffice to say, I'm disappointed, although not entirely surprised to hear the usual whingers banging on at Moyes - something which was certainly not echoed by the following faithful who chanted his name time and again.
A few pertinent points:

1. It's exactly Moyes who's acquired the players, picked the side and set the tactics that are producing free flowing football and besting pretty much everyone we come across. You can't slam him as hopeless for one without celebrating the other, it's nonsense.

2. Defensively we're obviously slighter weaker than we have been in previous seasons - that's what happens when you play essentially 7 attacking players and tell them to get forward, you really can't have everything! So with the deserved goals not going in, replacing 1 attacker (who was out of sorts anyway) with a further defender ahead of their final onslaught hardly seemed a crazy decision. You might not recall but last season we regularly played 4-5-1, so it's not like a surprise formation.

3. The earlier sub of Naismith for Mirallas was pretty much a case of fresh legs as far as I could see. The attacking didn't stop (arguably intensified) and Naismith set up several chances and had a few shots himself.

Ultimately we missed out through some lax finishing, some brilliant keeping and 2 defensive mistakes (Howard was suspect for the first and Coleman caught out for the second), but although the result was disappointing the performance wasn't much short of phenomenal and most fans spent the second half on their feet.

My ratings..
Howard: 6 (At fault for first, 1 good save but not much else to do)

Coleman: 8 (would've been 9 bar the lapse, he was solid defensively)
Jagielka: 9 (Great defensive performance with blocks and tackles whenever required plus the odd run up the park, less hoofing either)
Heitinga: 8 (Solid, good distribution and defensive play)
Baines: 9 (Phenomenal exchanges with Pienaar at times - like watching Brazil)
Mirallas: 8 (A little quiet early on, but came into his own when switched flanks, setting up goal)
Neville: 7 (Had a pretty good game and was involved in some smart distribution and defensively too. Needlessly clipped Berbatov for free kick though which cost at least a mark)
Felliani: 10 (Deserved a hat-trick, terrorised their defence and midfield winning most aerial battles and getting his foot in - was totally unplayable)
Pienaar: 8 (Excellent again in combination with Baines but could have delivered a little earlier or more clinically at times and put in a fee more shots)

Jelavic: 5 (Just not really at the races today, a few threatening moments but should have had at least 2 and touch looked suspect)

Naismith: 7 (Could maybe have scored, but looked solid and played a good attacking role when he came on)

Wayne Smyth
91 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:24:56
Brent, no it didn't happen as soon as we scored, but you get my point. There was no need to concede all the attacking initiative to a side we'd shown we could comprehensively batter.

Baines is an average defender I think. When you take into account his ability going forward however, he's absolutely superb.

Last time I saw a full back that was quality going forwards as well as defending, I think it was Paolo Maldini. Don't get many that can do both.

Today we had coleman and baines. I'm not comfortable with either of them if you said to me they'd have to defend for any length of time with no ability to go forward.

I've no idea why Moyes turns into a surrender-monkey during the latter stages of so many games. I don't recall any manager of note making a regular habit of withdrawing all of their strikers from the pitch. Its frustrating as hell because he's built a brilliant side which has the ability to play really good football, score goals and dominate games.....for god sake just let them do it.

Andy Walker
92 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:22:52
Wayne Smith - you said

'Then as soon as we get in the lead, the attacking mindset that had worked so well goes out the window and the old moyes is back with a vengeance taking off the only striker and putting on another central defender.'

That's just simply untrue. The sub was NOT made as soon as we took the lead, instaed we kept attacking right up until the 87 min when the sub was eventually made. We had numerous chances to make it 3-1. This was one of the most startling and significant differences in our play between this season and last. Jeez....

Drew O'Neall
93 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:13:24
Why can't we just retain possession when we are leading and 'manage' the match?

That's the difference between us and a Champions League team.

Mike Oates
94 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:24:29
Jelavic needs a goal and asap. The set up hasn't helped him with Mirallas's direct "shoot on sight" policy and the Pienaar-Baines combination being split up for large parts of the game to accommodate Mirallas's preferred position of playing wide left and coming on to his right foot for a shot. Jelavic scored a fair number from left crosses last season and other than the Villa game I don't think he has had the same service. Still I'm sure in time the Mirallas/Naismith/Jelavic link pay dividends with goals from all 3.
Peter Thistle
95 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:36:00
Cmon Jelly, get back to top form. We need his goals. Surely it's just a blip and he will bang em in again soon.
Andy Walker
96 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:31:05
Wayne, did you actually watch the match? It's just so far off the mark to say we reverted to defensive play as soon as we took the lead. Its really encouraging to see how we did keep attacking after taking the lead.
I've just watched Jol's post match interview on the BBC website. He couldnt have been any more accurate in his assessment in my opinion, mind you he'd have looked daft if he'd tried to put any other spin on the game. Its clear though that he thinks we are a really good side - certainly a lot better than his.
Jon Cox
97 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:07:36
When you're under pressure, 2-1 up with 5 mins to go, what you do bring on is not an extra defender but an extra attacker with pace which would be the ideal "outlet". Naismith doesn't qualify, just hasn't got the speed.

I can't help it but I blame Moyes for this. He's done us proud up till now but if you don't learn from history then you'll always make the same mistakes. David, back for a refresher course entitled "How to win a game when you're 2-1 up with 2 mins to go"

Enjoying the season so far and 4th is great but gutted today.

Brent Stephens
98 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:37:55
Wayne, I do see the point your making but not sure I agree as it was at the end subs were made, that's a reasonable time to try shut up shop on the basis that to concede one leaves no time to get one back again. OK, we did concede one, even with the subs, but hardly Moyes' fault about letting them in.

And I still think you're being harsh on Baines. He's getting games for England - expected to go forward but only from a position of defensive ability, surely. Is there any opponent who has given him the runaround in the last year or two?

Wayne Smyth
99 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:35:55
Andy, we played the last 5 minutes without a striker, and without an 'out' ball. Why did we do that? When was the last time you saw SAF or mourinho or any PL manager do that? Moyes seems to make a habit of it. Today it was completely unnecessary.

Don't you think that it had an influence on our mindset and on fulhams ability to put us under pressure? Coleman probably could've run down the wing instead of through the centre, but its telling that he had no bugger to pass to, so its not surprising it came back at us.

If vic was injured, keep jelavic on for the last few minutes, or have someone line vellios around to bring into the squad. Even just leave naismith or pienaar up top.

If all you do is defend then all you can ever do is concede goals.

Jamie Barlow
100 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:43:59
Wayne, we had Fellaini who played as a striker and is our main out ball and Naismith on the pitch.
Andy Walker
101 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:40:43
Jon Cox - conveniently you have not said who you would have taken off the pitch, Jags, Heitenga, Baines or Coleman - maybe even Howard? ;) Or maybe sacrifice a midfielder to concede possession and play hoof ball for the last 3 mins up to 3 strikers?
Now if we'd lost the game after making a sub as you suggest I really would be laying into Moyes as that would be undefendable.
What you have missed though is the simple fact that we didnt have an attacker on the bench as Victor fell ill just before KO.
Wayne Smyth
102 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:43:22
Andy I did watch the match. I'm frustrated as hell at seeing Moyes put out a side which has played so superbly and then wilfully change it near the end, handing all of the initiative to an inferior side.

It may seem a bit harsh to criticise the manager given how the team played for nearly 80 minutes away from home - and indeed how we are playing this season - but it's not like his hand was forced. A large part of todays result was self inflicted and its sad to see him lose his backbone late in the game.

Brent Stephens
103 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:47:39
Wayne, you say if all you do is defend you concede goals. But last year we did play an essentially defensive game and conceded very few goals compared to others. Now we are playing games with a much more attacking philosophy, and that probably accounts for our high goals against tally this season. So, having got our lead, and having continued to attack, then only 3 minutes from the end I guess you've got to say continuing to attack leaves us more likely to concede (as just explained), so let's now shut up shop.
Wayne Smyth
104 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:50:37
Jamie, I'm happy to be corrected, but when Coleman broke out of defence he had no-one ahead of him, correct?

So far as I remember, after the goal, fellaini dropped back into a centre mid role, with naismith on the wing and jelavic up front on his own.

Obviously fellaini is also going to be back for corners and set pieces, so who did we have as an 'out ball' when coleman broke?

Andy Amey
105 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:31:41
Did anyone else think that their first today, whilst having an air of inevitability, was down to Pienaar losing the ball and then failing to get up and track back?
Don't get me wrong,I'm as big a fan of the South African as anyone, but there are times.......
Jamie Barlow
106 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:50:26
"Andy, we played the last 5 minutes without a striker, and without an 'out' ball. Why did we do that? When was the last time you saw SAF or mourinho or any PL manager do that? Moyes seems to make a habit of it. Today it was completely unnecessary."

Now you're just making things up.

Andy Meighan
107 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:48:52
Watched the game and really can't believe how we never scored 6 or 7 we were that dominant. Pnce the initial disappointment of the late goal wore off I thought back to this time last season when we weren't creating a thing. So this new Everton is a joy to watch.
Jon Cox
108 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:50:00
Andy TBH I didn't know about Victor being
ill. I wouldn't actually have taken any of the back four off. Why should I? I would either
have taken Jel off or kevin. But what I would not have done is bring on Distan and give the initiative to Fulham which is what Davey did.

In fact and I know it's hindsight, but at 2-1 up why mend anything unbroken?

Wayne Smyth
109 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:53:25
Brent my point was related to specific times in games, not a general philosophy over the course of a season. I fully accept that we now play more expansive football and are probably going to concede more. Infact I'm delighted that Moyes is allowing the team to play in this way. It can only breed confidence and offer us better chances of winning games and trophies.

But, shutting up shop doesn't have to mean take off all strikers and play everyone behind the ball. Infact, I'd wager when most teams go into the latter parts of a game in the lead, they might change things a bit, add an extra centre mid or withdraw one striker, but I don't recall many managers make a habit of playing with no strikers.

We were better than fulham today by a mile. There was no need to panic and push everyone behind the ball, just the same as there was no need to panic after we'd conceded early on. We were playing really well, we'd lost a goal, but we were creating chances and the goals would come if we just kept the faith. I want moyes to have some faith for 90 minutes of a game, not 87.

Andy Walker
110 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:48:52
Wayne Jelli was awful today, he probably only stayed on as long as he did as we didnt have a replacement on the bench, due to Victors last miniute illness. Jelli wasnt exactly a threat today. If he'd been anywhere near his best we'd have won easily.
Coleman made a mistake but that happens and I wouldnt blame him as I thought that he had his best game for ages. If you must blame somedody, look at the strikers for not putting the ball in the net, as a 1 goal lead is never secure whatever action you take.
Mourinho is renowned for shutting up shop! Every week I watch numerous PL managers make subs designed to protect leads and run down the clock with less than 5 mins to go, its a common tactic.
Paul Andrews
111 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:52:48
In the recent past there has been no bigger critic of David Moyes tactics than me.
He has transformed the team allowed them to play quick,progressive attacking football.We have been rewarded with great attacking football,a pleasure to watch.
We had numbers attacking throughout the game,to be honest I didn`t think he had it in him to play like that.Credit where it`s due he has.
I think he tried to kill the game as it was too open,individual mistakes cost us 3 points,not the substitutions.More of the same please David.
Some team is going for 4,5 or 6 goals shortly.Hopefully Sunderland next week.
Brent Stephens
114 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:00:02
Wayne, I admit these calls are based on probabilities. Keep attacking and we're more likely to score, but more likely to concede. Try to shut up shop and we're less likely to concede but less likely to score. Both options have their pros and cons. Who'd be a manager? Well, I suppose we all are on TW!

No right or wrong here, Wayne, just different calls on the probabilities.

Wayne Smyth
115 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:03:01
I'd agree with that Paul. More of the same for the rest of the season. If we keep playing like that, not only will we win a lot of games, but we'll score a lot of goals.

Coleman came in for a lot of stick today, most of it unjustified. I much prefer him at RB than either Neville or Hibbert.

There were also solid performances all over the pitch. Neville and Heitinga played poorly, but apart from that I though the rest of the lads did really well.

Jon Cox
116 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:01:20
Andy W,

So no striker has ever played for 90 mins and scored in the 92nd? Just because he didn't score after 85 mins, Jeli could have stayed on and still contributed to any counter attacks. Well at least a bit more than Distin.

Patrick Murphy
117 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:46:42
As DM said to judge the team after 10 games , I thought I'd look to compare this season to last.

Following our defeat away to Newcastle last season we had:
Won 3 Drew 1 Lost 6 scoring 11 and conceding 15 compared to this season
Won 4 Drew 5 Lost 1 scoring 19 and conceding 13 .

Chelsea and Spurs were in joint 4th place having 19 points and trailing the leaders (Man C on28pts) by 9 pts. Whilst the teams in 2nd (Man U) and 3rd (Newcastle) had 23 and 22pts respectively.

This season the leaders have 4 points less than last year whilst positions 2 and 3 are the same this season as last.

Overall then it would seem that Everton are doing a great deal better than last season both defensively and in attack. But crucially turning some of those defeats from last season into wins this season has frustratingly eluded us

Funnily enough our only clean sheet in this period last season came against Blackburn away , whilst this season we have managed 2 (Utd and Swansea) whilst at the other end we failed to score in 4 games and have only failed to do so in 1 game this season (WBA)

So let's hope the boys can carry on the good football and be a bit more ruthless in the coming games. COYB


Wayne Smyth
118 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:06:26
Brent, all I'm saying is that we proved we were able to batter fulham playing a certain formation/style for 80 minutes. If the manager changes things without his hand being forced then on his head be it.

I'm more than happy to give the guy credit for all the good work he does, but I think he made a bad call today that cost us points.

Andy Walker
119 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:06:52
Don't forget teams that are a goal down at home with 5 mins to go have nothing to loose. They will always throw extra players forward (centre halfs playing as strikers etc) in the hope of getting an equalizer, whilst not worrying if they loose another goal, it's a gamble they have to take. The team in the lead can choose to ignore this, or anticipate it and react by putting an extra defender on for the last 5 mins.
Brent Stephens
120 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:11:13
ok, Wayne, we've done this one to death, I think. Respect your view. Cant wait for Saturday now.
Ray Jacques
121 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:56:54
How people can blame Moyes for not winning today is nothing short of embarrassing and you should take a good look at yourselves. Your never ending whingeing is beyond the pale.

We didnt sit back at 2-1 up but carried on attacking and looking for a third. bringing on a third centre back with minutes to go is standard practice as the opposition are bound to start knocking long balls forward.

Last season in the semi final we did sit back and I believe Moyes has learnt from this and the football we are playing this season shows this.

How can you say Coleman not having an out ball for the equaliser is the managers fault is a joke. The lad is a mistake waiting to happen every week as he is either the wrong side of his man or hesitates on the ball. He was at fault for the goal today, for one of the goals at Wigan and got away with the 'penalty'shout at QPR. I know he is a young lad but for me never a premiership player . Hope he proves me wrong but I doubt it.

On the people moaning about Pienaar being moved to the right for periods of games. Dont you think this might be to get the opposition guessing?? We all know that teams must look at Everton and think that if they stop the Baines/Pienaar combo then they stop the majority of our attacks. Hence a little switching is not always a bad thing during the course of a game.


Andy Walker
122 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:13:50
Jon don't be cheeky now!, you know thats not what I have said, of course strikers score in the last few minutes. However, strikers who have had as poor a game as Jelli had today will get subbed. We dominated the game yet he was largely anonymous and ineffective. If a striker has such a poor game when the players around him are creating chance after chance and providing great service, it speaks volumes.
Wayne Smyth
123 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:17:04
Ray, if you're looking for a definition of embarrassing, then removing your only striker while playing an inferior team you'd battered for 80 minutes fits for me. Can you also name me the last game that SAF played with no strikers in the last few minutes, please? You shouldn't have any problem, because apparently its standard practice.

Also, by all accounts you're not a fan of coleman. I suppose its colemans fault he was given a contract and gets picked at right back to make all these awful errors costing us points?

Andy Meighan
124 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:23:17
Back in the land of laptop that iPod Touch was getting me down.

Can someone please tell me what's wrong with Jelavic? Is this the same player that had defences running scared last season? He looks a shadow of that player — maybe he just needs a goal... but, at the moment, he looks so out of sorts, it's untrue... Just as well we've other players weighing in with goals.

I would certainly ask Evertonians to not be too downhearted. Cut out these silly mistakes [and it will happen] and this team is on the verge of things, believe me, boys I'm gutted after conceding that late... but keep the faith – because this team is exciting!
Ray Jacques
125 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:22:50
Wayne,
I said it was standard practice to bring on an extra defender. SAF has at least four quality strikers to juggle about with so the comparison with us (one only) is unfair.

Its Coleman making the errors no one else. Unfortunately with Hibbert injured and Gibson out , Neville is having to play centre mid or he would be at right back.
Do you feel comfortable with Coleman at RB?

From your comments it seems you think Moyes isn't doing a very good job and if he wasnt manager we would be higher than forth.

Andy Walker
126 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:26:33
Wayne, you seriously think we only had 1 attacker on the pitch today?
Mark Wilson
127 Posted 03/11/2012 at 19:31:42
The negativity, such as it is, revolves around that all to familiar feeling of gut wrenching disapointment when you get robbed at the death. It's one of the hardest things to take when your on the recieving end, but of course changes your week when it's the other way around. We've played Fulham off the park at the Cottage and that just doesn't happen too often. We are playing some exciting football and how good is that compared to the same time last season ? But.....this is a game all about results. Instead of stretching away from the dross like Liverpool, we are getting caught up in a run of one pointers that looks great in the stats column marked "defeats" but just isn't getting us far forward. 4th is impressive and unexpected, but it could easily be six or so places worse, such is the competitive nature of this incredibly tight league. My feeling is that we must string together three or four wins and put a little distance between us and the mid table lot before Christmas.

Can't understand why Jelavic isn't firing. He was putting away easier chances without thinking last year.

Many of us said we were desperate for some decent football. Well we have it but of course we want to exercise our divine right as football fans to be ultra critical, hypocritical and bizarrely impatient as we expect miracles from the poorest club in the league. So here's my contribution.....what the hell are we doing EVER breaking up the Piennar/Baines partnership ? Even for just part of a game. Stop it now please. Give Jelavic a short rest on the bench, he will be back with no problem because he's a class act. Push Mirallis up top, get Hibbo and Dazza back and the three pointers will soon reappear. Life as a bluenose, we can't, we wouldn't want to, swop it, but bloody hell it's frustrating as it gets.

Brendan McLaughlin
129 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:33:37
Its all "ifs & buts" when it comes down to the last few minutes & you're 2-1 up away from home. Stay as you are, bring on an extra attacker, bring on an extra defender...there's no guaranteed right answer. But when a player gifts the opposition an equaliser....then whatever strategy you've decided to adopt is, frankly. irrelevant
Jamie Barlow
130 Posted 03/11/2012 at 20:50:45
Wayne, do you not class Fellaini, Naismith and Marillas as forwards?
John Audsley
131 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:08:14
Coleman has been improving as games go by. He is not a natural right back but he has given us more attacking options from right back than any other player in years.

Did he fuck up YES but he is a real trier and id take that above a lot of players that have graced our doors through the years

and bye the way, the strikers and attacking midfield missed over 20 chances today including Naismith who seems to work hard but be utterly woeful when in front of goal.

For £50,000 Coleman is one of the best bargains this club as seen in years, don't maul him to death too much

Steve Guy
132 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:17:19
Moyes said we would know Everton's true position after 10 games. Well to get some perspective on this I've just looked at the Prem table on BBC and we are 4th. Now despite the fact that we might have been second or third IF we had the points our play has deserved, but would personally have taken 4th now after 10; wouldn't you ? Lets hope we are still there in May.
Steve Guy
133 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:17:19
Moyes said we would know Everton's true position after 10 games. Well to get some perspective on this I've just looked at the Prem table on BBC and we are 4th. Now despite the fact that we might have been second or third IF we had the points our play has deserved, but would personally have taken 4th now after 10; wouldn't you ? Lets hope we are still there in May.
Steve Guy
134 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:22:39
Soz for double click !
Barry Stevens
135 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:08:39
Just got home from the game and can't believe some of the stuff on here. This time last year we couldn't score for toffee, and the idea of having 26 shots on goal away from home was about as believable as Messi joining Everton.

Okay, we should've won but take nothing away from how well we played today. We're sitting in 4th place, yet some people still are not happy.

An away point vs a team with the 4th best home record in the Premier League is still a good result in my book. Roll on the Makems next week.

Tony Twist
136 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:29:08
Fairs fair, if we were 2-1 down and Moyes did a substitution and we scored to make it 2-2 then I would sing his praises, 2-1 up and Moyes makes a substitution and then they score then he has played a part in that. I think it is definately a weakness of his. I am well pissed off this evening. The next few matches now are crucial, 3 wins then all is well, struggle as we have been for wins then don't expect an easy second half of the season. Will he or won't he stay doubt will creep in and the players performance may suffer as a result. I hope I see my arse and am completely wrong, nothing would make me happier.
What a team we have though. Lets have Barkley back, one or two new additions and start racking up the wins. Perhaps Gibbo and Barkley centre midfield, a modern day Reid / Bracewell combination. Lets hope so.
Steve Carse
137 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:31:30
Those who criticise Coleman as a full back and in particular his role in the late equaliser can't have realised that Moyes had switched him and Neville for the second half so that Coleman was playing wide right not right back.

That switch by the way was key to Everton taking Fulham apart in the second half and Moyes deserves praise for having done it.

Paul Ferry
138 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:50:23
It is really quite simple, it's one of life's prosaic truisms: if it don't need fixing, leave well alone.

Sure, Seamus lost it in midfield, legged it back, little out of breath perhaps, and doesn't sense Sidwell behind him. But we were coasting, like Bolt looking round and smirking 10 meters out, fucking coasting, bossing every inch of the field, no threat at all at our end, looking like scoring every minute in theirs. Coasting...

So what does Moyes do? What does he do when absolutely nothing needs to be changed? What does he do when every wheel is turning with speed and not a piece is out of place. He makes a fucking change. Why? Fucking why?

There was no need at all to bring another defender on and every reason to keep pressing forwards: cliche (I love the odd cliche now and then and this is a gooden): 'the best form of defence is ... ' Mr Moyes?

If that change had not been made and the shape had been kept for — WTF — three minutes or so, we would have won that game without a shadow of a doubt. That, I feel, is a pretty strong nub of the argument.

Moyes changes things, players slip into new areas, look around them to see what is going on, and Bang! 30 secs, Mr Moyes, 30 secs, after you interfered with things, something happened that no-one, no-one, would have predicted would have happened before you made that change, Fulham levelled it.

It's pathetic how some on this thread want to turn such a perspective into some sort of Winter 2011 Moyes-bashing. Absolutely fucking pathetic. The reason we did not win today was the change Moyes made in the last fading minutes of the game when there was absolutely no reason at all to do it. End of.

Wayne Smyth
139 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:54:04
Ray, I do feel comfortable with Coleman at RB, provided we continue to have some attacking threat(i.e. what we did for about 80 minutes at fulham). Coleman probably did more going forward today than baines(which is some achievement) and was one of our better players. He did ok in defence, but could've done better for the goal we conceded.

If we're playing backs to the wall football as we did when distin came on, then I'll take a hibbert or neville over coleman, however.

And I do think that moyes is doing a good job, as I've said many times in this thread and elsewhere. That being the case, it doesn't mean I think he didn't make a mistake today, the same mistake he's made in the past which has cost us. Moyes is very, very close to moving us to the next level, but I don't believe he will do that while he has this fear resulting in him playing 11 men behind the ball.

Jamie, Fellaini, Naismith and Mirallas are only forwards if they're playing in that position. When Distin came on, mirallas had been withdrawn, naismith was playing wide right and fellaini as a centre mid.

My criticism of Moyes today is that having withdrawn Jelavic and brought on Distin, we were backs to the wall with 11 men behind the ball trying to see out the remaining few minutes. There should've been someone available as an out ball when the ball broke to coleman, but he had no-one. It was always coming back at us.

Mark Browne
140 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:49:49
Ive calmed down a bit now after today, and yes after 10 games we are in a strong position. However, looking at all of the games to date, I feel that we are not making teams work hard enough for their goals, compared to our goals, where we have to work very hard for the majority of our goals.
a villa - fellaini didnt close down quick enough off and allowed shot for goal
west brom - goal from our corner, and error giving a corner away for 2nd goal
newcastle - jag/distin/howard at fault for both goals
southampton - baines at fault from corner allowing goal
wigan - cant legislate for offside goal, although coleman jumped into challenge when should have jockeyed the attaacker, second goal, neville did not pick up goalscorer, following the ball instead
qpr - neville at fault not winning ball from our corner, and defence not closing down hoilett
rs - coleman jumped into tackle similar to wigan game and attacker crossed for 1st goal, and suarez should not have got header for 2nd goal in our area.
fulham, silly foul by nevilloe and coleman error running into trouble and losing ball.
With all the defensive back room staff we have surely somebody should be looking at these errors and making sure that if teams score against us, they have to work hard to get into position.
Anyway rant over, and hopefully that we get teh results our play deserves in the next few games
COYB

Noel Early
141 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:52:57
Coleman was not to blame for that draw, he gave a great performance. How many times do people lose the ball and not get punished? I'd feel a lot worse this evening if we played shite and hung on to draw; we didn't, we battered them. Just need to tighten up a small bit.

First thing Moyes needs to do is get a proper holding midfielder. Gibson will suffice when he gets back. Neville can't be playing any longer. I don't buy this 'experience' shite any more... Simply put: his legs are going/gone. Don't be putting him at right back — either Coleman and Hibbert are better.

I'd love most of all a new keeper. Jack Butland will do me, the lad is quality. Howard has always scared the shit out of me and doesn't have the necessary presence and his kicking is crap. Sunderland are getting some kicking next weekend.
Derek Thomas
142 Posted 03/11/2012 at 22:02:03
Mark #984 I can't understand why Jelavic isn't firing, the simple answer is it's just one of those striker things, the other end of it being last season10 touches = 10 goals.

That sorted we can now drift into conspiracy land, he's out of sorts not trying coz he knows he's off in Jan.

Bjorn #902 accuses Pienaar and Miralles of deliberately not passing to him, maybe they know he's off as well (or they just could be greedy).

Hitz has had 6 weeks if he's still not good enough and fit enough to cover Neville in CM for 15mins or so while Neville drops back to fullback or something why are we even bothering with his wages

Brendan McLaughlin
143 Posted 03/11/2012 at 22:12:22
Mark #001
People used to post how too many defensive coaches meant we couldn't play expansive football....now you're complaining these coaches aren't doing enough on the defensive side. I love the good weather but see when it gets too warm.....
Ian Smitham
144 Posted 03/11/2012 at 22:15:17
Well Mr Moyes has said to think about judging the start after ten games. The guy on BBC news has just said it is getting interesting at the top. Today we got a draw from an away at the team in 7th,, keeps us nicely in the CL space, we need a bit of a good run to get back to challenging for top spot. But hey Ho City and Chelsea did not read the script today and those in the pack chasing us also forgot . We have fended off the Arse and Spurs for now. The current threat is the only team to have beaten us this season. No real interest in the mid table clash tomorrow.

Onwards and upwards


Gary Heywood
145 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:59:03
Phil Neville is without doubt our weakest link. His wrecklessness around our penalty box is unbelievable. Why was he in the wall after his free kick blunder? He didn't jump and he's too short. He is now too old,too slow. I see this crap from him in every game.

I'd keep Coleman at right back and drop Neville and play Hitzelsperger or Barkley until Gibson is fit. Hibbert is as useless as Neville so I'd persevere with Coleman.

Naismith is not good enough and needs to be replaced. Far too ordinary.

If Jelavic was on form we would have won easily. He needs competition for his place but hasn't got any. For Howard to improve he also needs stronger competition.

I think a top 4 place is achievable because the premiership is quite average. The fourth place is between us, Arsenal and Spurs.

James Martin
146 Posted 03/11/2012 at 22:10:49
My only worry is that we've been playing the best football in the league (perhaps bar Chelsea at times). We've absolutely torn some very good teams to shreds both at home and away.

The league table, whilst it looks healthy, now shows Arsenal and Tottenham — who have both had what would be regarded as stuttering starts for them — just behind us. What's worse is that if the RS win tomorrow (which they normally do at home to Newcastle) they'll be 4 points off us. The worst RS team in my living memory only 4 behind one of our best ever starts.

I just hope these three teams (or even Newcastle) don't suddenly kick into good form and we hit a slump where we're not pulverising teams anymore (let's face it we're not lucky enough to win when we're playing well so I doubt we will when we're playing badly).

Man Utd have been rubbish this season so far yet are still top of the league; we have yet to gain that mentality that allows us to grind out wins, we choke all too often when the expectation is upon us, no matter how well we appear to be playing.
Anthony Lewis
147 Posted 03/11/2012 at 21:01:58
Martin Jol is my new favourite manager. He waxes lyrical about us in his post-match BBC interview. Loving his dig at Gerrard too: "Everton don't just play it long. They mix it up and play some good football. They are a really good side".

I thought we were exceptional today. Very unlucky at the end; I felt quite sorry for Coleman. He was my MotM in the first half and was only eclipsed by Felli's masterclass in the second. Says it all how good he was when Jol took off Riise cos he was getting pulled apart by Coleman. I really think he's growing into that right-back role. He just needs to tighten up a little defensively. But then we could say that about Baines. I'll take two full backs who are great going forward but a little suspect defensively over the opposite every day of the week.

Tom Bowers
148 Posted 03/11/2012 at 22:43:20
Two salient points, the finishing is poor and we are leaking goals.

We had 29 attempts on goal, some of them abysmal but scored 2.Fulham had 9 attempts and scored 2, (sorry, Howard scored).

Neville again made a poor tackle giving up the free kick in a precarious position just as his gaff against QPR resulted in an early goal against us.

Come on Moyes,surely there is someone else at the club who can tackle in midfield. Even Osman was easily brushed off the ball today but that's nothing new. Why not Heitinga instead of Neville and Distin back with Jags?

Obviously not because that would mean leaving his pets out and we are dropping 2 points every game.

Okay it will all be forgotten if we bounce woeful Sunderland next week or will it?
Peter Warrington
149 Posted 03/11/2012 at 22:54:36
Well, I just spent our winter here having my heart broken by my other great love, Richmond, in the Aussie Rules. First team in 100+ years to lose 3 games in a row by less than a goal. Led or drew 20 of 22 games at some stage in the final quarter, but won only 10 of them. Consistently found ways to lose games they had in the bag. Turned a breakout year into one I will lament for decades, especially if we slide down the ladder again this year.

And now this.... 3:45 in the morning, hangover and the kids to be awake at 6. At least I'm gonna feel great about the Blues. But, deep down, I suspect, in fact I KNOW, we are going to concede, especially when Naismith can't bury that easy chance. Like I knew against the Mags.

Lenin used to call it the politics of creeping inevitability. I call it no place to hide and nothing to smash.

Can't take much more of it.

Mark Browne
150 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:07:20
Brendan 005, my point is that we have given cheap goals away, and tighter defending will have stopped some of the errors, and some of the draws then turned into victories. However, I am over the moon (sorry about the pun) on how we are playing and long may it continue, as I am sure that we will win more games than lose (or draw).
Brendan McLaughlin
151 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:14:01
Apologies Mark #015
I know & I've always believed good teams are built from the back but I could't resist the (cheap) shot.
Jamie Barlow
152 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:00:33
Wayne, we didn't have 11 men behind the ball when Coleman lost the ball. Both Fellaini and Naismith were further up field and Pienaar was wide left. Out balls as you say. Hardly backs to the wall and 11 men defending.

We were always going to face the usual launches into the box in the final minutes and with Hangaland moving further up it only made sense to bring your tallest centre back on.

Coleman seems to be getting better with every game so I'd continue with him for the games against lower placed teams, although he could improve defensively. I'd still rather Hibbert or Neville play against the better teams.

Patrick Murphy
153 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:18:36
Apparently we have hit the woodwork 9 times this season , it must be some sort of a record. And another unwanted record is yet another oggy how many is that already.
Jamie Barlow
154 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:22:26
Tom, have you seen Johnny tackle? He's like a little girl.
Lewis Barclay
155 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:21:09
At Craven Cottage today, some observations:

Evertonians on very good song.

Coleman was at fault for the 2nd, but that aside I thought he was very, very good today, possibly our best player.

Neville can sure only be continually selected because of his ability as captain because the rest of his game is not great.

Jeli was not good today. He looked like an okay SPL player.

Would liked to have seen Oviedo on again instead of Naysmith.

Feli was awesome once he looked like he could be bothered.

We should have won by two or three.

Steve Guy
156 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:32:47
I refer to my earlier post.....we are 4th !!!!!!!
Brendan McLaughlin
157 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:28:43
John #992
Much as I love an Irishman doing well for the Blues (& I'm starting to think he might be a player) Seamus fecked up big time,,,,Christ if it had been Neville or Osman this site would have gone ballistic?
Brendan McLaughlin
158 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:51:11
"Everton snatch a draw from the jaws of victory"

Yeah, that's how the sporting world are reporting it?
Michael Kenrick
159 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:00:14
Lyndon likes to change my game headlines but I think in this case he's got it very wrong. The correct headline is:

How Did Everton Not Win This Game???

Jamie Barlow
160 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:00:31
I think it should read Fulham, not Everton.
David Poole
161 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:55:28
I didn't see the game today, but by the sounds of things it's been the same old story.

We've battered every team this season, with the exception of West Brom (and QPR with ten men), and only got four wins. This was our fourth 2-2 draw, and our third in four games. We can say what we like about the finishing; but ultimately, we've got to get back to our notoriously tight defense. Our first choice midfield: including Mirallas, Fellaini, Pienaar and Osman, is arguably the most effective attacking unit in the league; but we need to tighten up. The eternal question of course is when will Gibson be back.

Having said that, I'm determined to remain positive. We're playing great. We need to aim for at least 7 (preferably 9) points from our next three games, before our tough run in vs some top sides. If we can go into these games in good form, then I'm confident. My cousin who is a gunner is terrified by the prospect of Andre Santos up against Mirallas.

Going forward we're a match for anyone, but we just need to start keeping clean sheets. It's hard for anytime team to win a match when conceding two goals. Clearly that's where the problem lies, I'm just not sure how we could solve it. Jags seems to be in his best form since 2009, and whilst Coleman is costing us the odd goal, he's generally doing a decent job. Like I said, I feel the missing link is Gibson and his return will greatly improve defensive side.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
162 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:09:28
"How Did Fulham Not Win This Game"....

Hmmm.... I'll have to think about that one.

Brendan McLaughlin
163 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:06:27
Well I am gobsmacked Michael K! Shame on you Lyndon!
Jamie Barlow
164 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:15:31
I meant the headline at the top of this page.
Ernie Baywood
165 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:46:39
People will slate me for this but I really believe we're in a false 4th at the moment. Fixtures have been incredibly kind - we've played no-one away and only Utd and the shite at home. Compare that with the teams Arsenal and Liverpool have played. And the teams those above us have played. The football we're playing should really have seen us with a few more points.

Don't get me wrong, I'm loving watching our football but the lapses are frustrating and I can't feel too happy with 4th.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
166 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:23:17
Okay, Jamie:

"Fulham snatch a draw from the jaws of victory"... ?!?

No, this doesn't sound right either. But perhaps you mean:

"Fulham snatch a draw from the jaws of defeat"...

But it does point up the subtle irony Lyndon is attempting... wooosh!

Peter Mills
167 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:03:28
I have always been a supporter of David Moyes and, given that he has created what is currently a very stylish attacking team, that opinion stands. However, I believe his great weakness is that he doesn't learn from his mistakes.

If you bring on a third centre back for the last few minutes it creates confusion in the middle of the defence. Whereas previously one would "go", the other would "cover", suddenly it becomes "who is doing what?".

This was my thinking as Distin was being sent on, and so it came to be. I remember David Moyes doing something similar away at Blackburn, maybe 6-7 years ago when he brought on, I think, David Weir in similar circumstances and we instantly conceded. I'm all for bolstering a defence when needed, but not for creating uncertainty.


Andy Crooks
168 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:25:40
Brendan, Seamus had an excellent game. He no more fecked up than Jelavic or Howard. He will be the Everton right back for years to come and you should be proud rather than nit picking.
Brendan McLaughlin
169 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:24:54
Ernie #034 Slating #1
A feckin "false 4th"...seriously only a fucking Everton fan would come out with that! shite! No wonder lifes a disapointment....we're 4th ....just fecking enjoy?
Anthony Lewis
170 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:34:25
Ernie (034).

Not slating you at all, but there are only 3 teams capable of beating us this season. And they are the 3 teams above us in the league. That supposed difficult run, to me, isn't that difficult :D

Brendan McLaughlin
171 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:33:19
Andy #037
Why do you cut the players (some players?) such slack...yet give the manager no quarter?
Jamie Barlow
172 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:38:32
I don't know what I mean Micheal.

It's time for bed I think.

Robbie Shields
173 Posted 03/11/2012 at 23:46:45
Wayne, well done for repeatedly biting your lip, James mate, you really haven't got a clue. Wayne has said repeatedly that this brand of football is fantastic, best we've had for a long long time, and certainly infinitely better than at any time in the previous 10 years under Moyes. But, that doesn't mean the Moyesiah can't make mistakes, it is possible you know. Wayne's point is that by taking off a striker and putting on a defender you hand the initiative straight over to the other team, what's wrong with that statement? It's 100% correct, you do! It also tells your players that you are now going to be expected to defend for the rest of the game, so they all come deeper. If you haven't got an outlet then the ball will inevitably come straight back for second, third fourth phases, inadvertently actually increasing not decreasing the likelihood of conceding a goal, how do you not see or understand that!

Now I have been a VERY big critic of Moyes over the years but this year he has been a revelation. He has always managed to find great buys and manages to get the best of his players but he still has a tendency when the chips are down to revert to type and, shit his pants, go negative and put on defenders, he's done it time and time again. Now, if he addresses this negative trait, along with the other things he's addressed this year then he might actually win something for us. But if he is allowed to keep making these mistakes unquestioned then he won't continue improving. Do you really think we would be experiencing this wonderful style of football this season if everyone on ToffeeWeb over the last 10 years had consistently been saying that Moyes always makes the right decisions, we cant possibly improve and be happy with what we've got!!!!!

The man is improving, as he should, and we are here to hold him to account, tell him when we think he's doing well and also identify the things he can improve on, late negative defensive substitutions is something he can improve on, that's all.

In Moyes I am starting to trust again, but he still has a few lessons that he refuses to learn from, when he finally gets it we might even make the next step in ours and his evolution, and win something.

Brendan McLaughlin
174 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:42:33
Jamie B. #041. Best comment ever... LOL!
Phil Bellis
175 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:42:50
Ernie...imagine this team with Reid or Kendall running the midfield; I've seen the great Everton sides and I really believe we are that close (with the caveat that we'd still only have 14 top-class players) However, for the first time in many years, I am lookinfg forward to the game and enjoying the way we play
Brendan McLaughlin
176 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:45:57
Robbie #042
No chance Moyes was always on the right path..only you didn't see it? Only asking like... Are you seriously suggesting that the criticsm Moyes receceived on this site influenced him?
Brendan McLaughlin
177 Posted 04/11/2012 at 01:15:56
Robbie #042
What the fucks a phase?
Patrick Murphy
178 Posted 04/11/2012 at 00:56:44
Brendan, all the major clubs' supporters have complaints about particular players, tactics, etc, so what is wrong with Evertonians having a go when they think that DM may have made an error in judgement?

Just because we have no money to spend, doesn't mean that we should sit back and accept that mistakes will be made.

David Moyes has in most respects done a fantastic job at Everton, but there is always a nagging doubt about his belief in himself and his side.

If you accept that any team is a reflection of their manager then this doubting of either his own ability or that of his players, does show up in the teams inability to win enough games even when they are the dominant team.

In many ways he reminds me of Gordon Lee in that, when his team plays well, they are a joy to watch... but, when push comes to shove and the chips are down, can he manage to get them over the line?

Lee ultimately failed and paid the price; David Moyes, due to the financial situation, has been given far longer (10 years) to create a team and he has at long last got them playing good football and scoring goals.

It is oft reported that the successful teams win when they are playing badly, which is why it is a worry that we are failing to win even when we are the better team.

As Martin Jol said, if you don't take your chances, it doesn't matter how much of the ball you have had.

I'm sure all TWs want the same thing: a team to be proud of and a team which wins as often as possible. Some are supporters of Moyes in everything he does; some are prone to question the manager's decisions, but every one of us are Evertonians.

Brendan McLaughlin
179 Posted 04/11/2012 at 01:22:18
Patrick #049
No problem at all but in many ways he reminds me of Howard Kendall (Mark 1)..still struggling to find the perfect blend. I'm old (sad) enough to let him have time but feck we've seen something early doors this season that we haven't for a long, long time?
And no I disageee...when a managers getting it mostly rigtht keyboard warriors can feck off!
Eric Myles
180 Posted 04/11/2012 at 01:04:32
Mark #905, this was one game where Howard was definitely not responsible for either goal except that he would have been better off making no attempt to save the first.
Simon Watts
181 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:05:11
You know something. This was a great opportunity to say to koppites, we are not a hoof ball team. They will be laughing at us for this. We can play good football. So why on earth did we have to put 5 defender's on. We were all over them and it was not needed. This has to be the most bizarre substitutions ever by Moyes. I am sure if we could, we would have brought an extra goal keeper on.

I knew, as soon as it happened this was going to happen. It happened with Newcastle. People are saying Jelavic is not firing, but the thing is his off play is brilliant. He is hard to handle. It allowed them to push up straight away, and left Coleman with no options, He should have booted the ball, but got caught.

So gutted we are losing so many points stupidly. We are doing well, but we could be doing so much better.
Brendan McLaughlin
182 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:07:04
Simon...of all the things that went through my head when Fulham equalised...what the redshite were saying.??? Are you for real....naw..fuck..they've got bigger (hopefully) problems!
Jim Knightley
183 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:25:42
Robbie...I love your thesis about how adding a defender increases one's chance of losing a goal....you should let managers know the world over, because they've been doing it wrong all this time.....

Question...is it not possible that Fulham, would have scored whatever we did? for some reason, numerous considerations of why we drew, ignore the fact that Fulham would have come at us...because they needed to. They were the home team, and they were losing.

We should have protected the lead...the players should have protected the lead. We should have won the match previously, but we should have had enough to keep Fulham at bay. I would have kept Mirallas on personally...but maybe his recent injury played a part.

But now the dust is settled...what is the result of this weekend? Every Everton fans wants fourth...and despite our draw (Against one of the best home records in the division in the calender year), we've gone above Spurs in fourth place. This time last year, most of us were looking into an abyss... we were completely lacking creativity, a striker, and hope..... Since then we've added Mirallas, Pienaar, Jelavic, Gibson and others, and we are playing some of the best football in the division. Let's get some perspective, and congratulate the manager, and the players.

Today was a big disappointment for everyone...but on the other side, we've put in one of the very best performances of the past year. We've come out of the Derby, like we have in the past, all guns blazing, and we've have a run of three matches which provide the realistic possibility of 7-9 points. I also think that, in Mirallas, we have pulled off yet another fantastic transfer coup. If we can add a couple of players in January, I think we can be realistically considered as top four contenders.

Eric Myles
184 Posted 04/11/2012 at 01:33:18
Wayne #943 "Then as soon as we get in the lead, the attacking mindset that had worked so well goes out the window and the old moyes is back with a vengeance taking off the only striker and putting on another central defender."

We got into the lead in the 72nd minute, with 18 minutes left to play and Distin came on in the 89th minute with 1 minute left to play.

Please explain your definition of "as soon as we get into the lead......."???

Brendan McLaughlin
185 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:37:51
Eric #058
"Waynes World".....nothing to do with reality
Eric Myles
186 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:38:11
Mike #960 "So who did we have as an 'out ball' when Coleman broke?"

That bloke sat in row Z.

Robbie Shields
187 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:22:16
Brendan mate, assuming your not pulling my chain about phases I'll explain it. Firstly it is something United do very very well, did it lots against a very impotent Arsenal yesterday. What they do is whenever they have a corner, a free kick in the opposing teams half or are pilling on the pressure near the end of a match especially, is they have at least 2, 3 or even 4 players all around the D and push up their defenders to the half way line, plus send another into the box. Then what happens is the corner comes over and a defender clears (chance 1 missed), it comes out to a United player, who immediately passes out wide or dinks the ball back in, or shoots (chance 2 from the corner), it comes out again, panic ensuing in the defense who will try and hit it anywhere, it comes out to a United player again and the whole process repeats itself for a number of 'phases' of attacking play.

The result is that from a single corner United have 3, 4 or 5 attempts to score, once during each phase of play. We have been really poor at doing this over the years, in fact, we are awful at it! We actually invite these phases against when we are defending in these situations by bringing everyone back, not marking around the edge of the box and not having someone up front to try and hold the ball up or chase when we clear. When we have a corner, how many times do you see us legging back after the cross is cleared, with no one on the edge of the box and therefore the defending team breaking away freely? If you haven't noticed this happening hundreds of times over the last 10 years then it would explain why you don't know what a phase is.

Watch United on MOTD or whatever and see how they defend and attack corners and how many 'phases' of attacking play they manage to create from them. It's not a coincidence they talk about pressure being created, it's tactical and it's one of the reasons United score so many late goals and win so many games. Moyes hasn't learnt this tactic yet, and he won't unless others point it out to him.

Robbie Shields
188 Posted 04/11/2012 at 02:57:39
Jim #57, I see......... So........ What you're saying is ............ that if we put 11 defenders on from the beginning of the game (You know, like we did last year when we took our knife to a gun fight)............. we won't concede any goals and will therefore, not get beat...... Silly me........ Wasn't that also around the time we managed to go a number of games without actually having a shot as well ???????? Remind me again how many of those games we won????? And also remind me how thoroughly overjoyed ToffeeWebbers (On the whole) where during this period?

PS please see post 61 for an idiots guide to tactics and pressure, hopefully you'll learn something.

Brendan McLaughlin
189 Posted 04/11/2012 at 03:02:46
Robbie #061
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there's a Premier League player/manager who went into a game thinking "phases". There's 90 minutes... two 45 minute halves... anything else.......?
Brendan McLaughlin
190 Posted 04/11/2012 at 03:32:40
BTW Robbie ..see you jumped and "answered" my second question first @ 48 but ignored my first question @ 46...erm !
Robbie Shields
191 Posted 04/11/2012 at 03:46:37
Sorry Brendan, I thought it was rhetorical. IMHO, no, but that's just my opinion. As I said earlier, Moyes this year has been a revelation and he is converting me over to him again, doesn't mean he is above criticism or questioning.
Brendan McLaughlin
192 Posted 04/11/2012 at 03:52:06
Robbie #066
We welcome all converts :-)
Mike Green
193 Posted 04/11/2012 at 04:35:15
Brendan - it seems you and I are Phase Immigrants, Robbie is clearly a Phase Citizen.

Interesting stuff but had I talked to my Granddad about 'Phases' I reckon he would have made me sit on the kerb in the rain and not let me in until I'd sorted myself out.

Kev Johnson watch out, looks like you've got a challenger for the top job...... : )

Robbie Shields
194 Posted 04/11/2012 at 05:09:25
Haha, Sorry if this is a bit over your head Mike. Now be quiet like a good little boy and sit in the rain until you're old enough to talk sensibly, adults talking ;)

Seriously though, watch what United do at corners and compare to us, you can then word what you see and give us your interpretation of it, merits or lack thereof. With or without the word 'phase' completely up to you to describe as you see fit.

Derek Thomas
195 Posted 04/11/2012 at 04:33:46
Short Version: for the last 5 mins (unless it's for an injury) If it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

At first glance bringing a defender on for an attacker in the last few mins 'seems' in theory to be the 'correct' thing to do... and it could be as well, if it works, in a simple 2 + 2 = 4, FM type world.

But in the real world, this being Everton, other factors kick-in: Murphy's Law, The Law of Unintended Consequences, that bloody butterfly that's forever flapping it's wings in Brazil or some place can even influence matters (or so we are told).

Removing the attacker can, as has been stated above, hand some initiative back to the opposition. It also changes the whole dynamic, which as a team would be doing the one for all – all for one, covering, chasing, playing for each other thing, the "He goes, I cover".

Once Jelly came off and Distin came on, this "He goes I cover thing" has to re-assert itself over the new set of people involved. This will take a minute or two to reboot; we didn't have a minute or two.

Yes, Coleman made a mistake in the middle of midfield; whether Jelly would have been an 'outball' is somewhat moot coz he was off... the midfield / forward dynamic had been disturbed. The ball went across to our left, then past how many before reaching the far post where Coleman had, I think, TWO to mark, Berbatov infront and Sidwell behind.

Distin had been added to the 2 + 2 = 4 making the answer 5: result indecision, and goal.

Robbie Shields
196 Posted 04/11/2012 at 05:59:48
Nicely summarized, Derek.
Ian Bennett
197 Posted 04/11/2012 at 07:40:56
Coleman did give the ball away in midfield, however the space down the left and the poor quality defending with how many blue shirts in the box was the reason for the equaliser. No one closed the cross down, and the ball goes through to the back post for a tap in. With at 5 defenders in the box that's poor at any level.

Moyes does pass the initiative over to the opposition with his negative subs, however, the quality of our defending has been poor this season with a huge number of individual errors. Howard, Distin, Heitinga, Neville, Coleman and baines have all had them. Gibson would rightly make a difference with quality and younger legs than Neville, however, sorry use of that word again, our defenders and keeper appear to be the weak link. We can't keep on conceding 2 goals a game and hope to win.

I like Coleman at right back, I had campaigned for it long enough, as it gives us great attacking threat on both sides. But, it's leaving us wide open at the back with baines bombing foward on the other side, and the quality of keeper, centre halves, defensive midfielder we have are good but not great.

For now get Gibson and hibbert back in the side. Less chances, more clean sheets. I don't think the current set up is a total write off, hell we're 4th for Christ sake, but, if you had an essien style defensive midfield beast and a centre half like lescott we are one hell of a side and could play that open style safer in the knowledge we're not going to be conceding 2 a match.

Disappointing, but things on the pitch are looking good. We are going to give someone an absolute battering when it clicks. Get on 5 for next week.

I'll close off that Fellaini drive would have been a great hat trick strike. It swerved into the keeper. If he had put it the other side, it would have been a hell of a goal putting to bed that he is just a big fella we lump it up to. The media din would be huge.... But that's another story.

Douglas Turner
198 Posted 04/11/2012 at 08:14:39
If the thin line between crap and brilliant had a name yesterday afternoon, it would be called Everton! We're so close to becoming a brilliant Top Four club! But with the amount of chances we squandered, you could also say we were crap! It took a bit of Fellainian Flair to dig us out the brown stuff!

And taking off one of our best players (Mirallas) was a classic Moyes move! I know we'd be lost without him but it must be said that Moyes never learns from his mistakes! Come on Davey! We need 2x Fullbacks, 1x Holding Midfielder (preferably from Belgium) and a Taxi for a Mr Tim Howard! Week-in & week-out, he costs us points, and there was no excuse for the cock-up he made in that set piece!
Paul Gladwell
199 Posted 04/11/2012 at 08:53:23
Coleman was my MotM and no way does he deserved to be dropped. I was for him being dropped last week but he proved me wrong and was one of our best players there too.

The lad is still learning and mistakes will happen and I think we should carry on with him as his attacking threat is top draw at times with Mirallas. He ballsed up in midfield but Jagielka and Co should have done better too. The more games he gets, the more he will cut out the errors.
Richard Earle
200 Posted 04/11/2012 at 09:18:09
The final goal could have been prevented if Baines had managed to close down the cross. Coleman shouldn't be getting all the blame.
Andy Walker
201 Posted 04/11/2012 at 09:13:55
To the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" brigade, do you think teams losing at home in the last 5 mins keep the same shape and tactics? You really believe the last 5 mins would have played out like the previous 85 if we'd done nothing? Of course not. They have nothing to loose and throw all players forward and gamble on a goal – just like Fulham did, with centre-halves up front. It is naive in the extreme to not recognise this.

Moyes anticipated a big gamble by Fulham in the last 5 mins. Their gamble came off despite our extra defender, but tactically it was the correct decision. It shouldn't ever have been an issue as our strikers – Naismith and Jelli in particular – cost us this game with their poor finishing.
George McKane
202 Posted 04/11/2012 at 09:20:21
Look at the goal again – any idea what Heitinga was doing in the middle? He seems to allow the ball and the player to pass him constantly. Look at his reaction to the Jags cross when he jumped over the ball about a foot off the line. He is a total liability. Overrated.

Yet it's so easy to call Coleman, who at least puts great effort in. I've no idea what Heitinga brings to the team. Tough centre half? Hard tackler? Good marker? None of these in my opinion.
Mark Dunford
203 Posted 04/11/2012 at 09:18:05
Hard on Coleman who seems to be taking blame for the goal. He was really very good today and carries a real threat going forward. The disconcerting way he runs with the ball seemingly slower than him is great to watch and the link-up with Mirallas is adding a new dimension to our game.

Everton played really well yesterday at a very difficult ground. They should have won – no one denies that. A host of players – most unfortunately Naismith – failed to convert chances. Jelavic would have scored two or three on a better day and he badly needs the confidence booster. This was our undoing and we should have been out of sight by the time they scored.

Fulham are a good side going forward and had a number of chances. Our central midfield was exposed again, even though Osman and Fellaini played well. Neville is not a long-term option in the key holding role – he dwells on the ball when Gibson or Carsley would have released it.

The Distin sub was clearly an error. We needed to stop the ball getting near our penalty area so midfield was the place to bolster. Watching Everton at the moment is a pleasure – they are a very good side and will almost certainly thrash someone at some point this season and then people will just say, I saw that coming.
Derek Thomas
204 Posted 04/11/2012 at 09:24:11
Andy Walker (#085) as Officer Commanding the "If it ain't broken" Brigade, my reply to your request for surrender is:

a) nuts...
b) you and whose army...
c) I haven't begun to fight yet...
d) away and fuck spiders, what the fuck do you know.

It's about (again):

a) keeping the ball...
b) maintaining your shape

Football is a simple game for boys (that somehow seems to baffle simple people) made complicated by bullshit merchants, played by men for a King's Ransom.

Robbie Shields
205 Posted 04/11/2012 at 09:40:48
Great post that Derek, Love it, never a truer word spoken.
Andy Crooks
206 Posted 04/11/2012 at 10:07:06
Brendan #040. I think Moyes has been excellent most of the season. I think he was blameless yesterday. We created loads of chances and played some great football. Good teams have days like this when the chances are squandered.

You're right, though, I don't like to castigate players if they are giving their best and, because of Moyes, the Everton players usually do,some one soon is going to take a hammering from us.

I also don't take the view that we must beat the likes of Fulham because of tough games ahead against top sides. Wigan yesterday put a different light on our result against them. We can beat anyone but we simply need a stronger squad to maintain some consistency.

Chris James
207 Posted 04/11/2012 at 10:11:20
I think there's a lot of unfair flack being hurled at Coleman here. He's still a young lad and would probably argue himself he's not the finished article, but players are never going to learn if they aren't given games.

He's also most definitely an attacking full-back rather than a defensive one (in the mould of Glen Johnson) and as such offers a completely different option to Hibbert.

Whilst I wouldn't necessarily agree that he was our man of the match (Felliani was head and shoulders above everyone else in every respect yesterday), I would argue that Coleman was one of the top performers, constantly looking to get the ball and drive and ensuring that the Baines/Pienaar axis was mirrored with Mirallas on the right.

Yes he made a couple of mistakes for the goal, but he was by no means alone and when he lost the ball there was ample chances to break the attack before the ball got to Sidwell at the far post. Pillorying Seamus for this result and dropping him would be similar to the supposed move that Moyes is constantly criticised for RE: Barkley (a far less consistent and PL developed player).

Although I really like Hibbert and think he's without doubt one of, if not THE, best out and out defensive defender at the club, if you swap him for Coleman then you'll effectively swap a tighter back 4 for a weakened attack. Not that we shouldn't do that but it's not as obvious a move as others a making out.

The long and short of it is that we made more chances than anyone else in the league yesterday (and some clear cut ones at that) and if we'd been more incisive in front of goal (specifically labelling this at Jelavic, although others were profligate too) we'd have been 2 points better off today.

Paul Andrews
208 Posted 04/11/2012 at 10:55:28
I don't want to put a downer on yesterday's performance, I thought the Blues were great.

Did any one think Howard should have saved the first? (I haven`t read all the posts.)
Eric Myles
209 Posted 04/11/2012 at 10:55:49
Robbie #070, I think the Yanks would call them "plays" but I prefer your "phases" which is easily recognisable from the game of rugby.
Ken Crowther
210 Posted 04/11/2012 at 10:02:44
Just got back from the Cottage. Haven't even watched the recording of the match yet.

Read through this thread expecting to have people drooling about Felli. and (after the initial disappointment of losing the lead so late and undeservedly) praising - almost - everybody in sight.

But no!

Still some moaners who criticise the Moysiah/Pip/Shamus, even Bainsie and others.

This was our best performance of the season and we were the best side that the Fulham supporters had seen all season.

Three points would have been our just deserts and rightly so; but shit happens.

Final point, why has no-one mentioned the volley from Felli which drew a great save but should have produced his hat trick.

WHAT WONDERFUL TECHNIQUE!!!.

The best thing I've seen all season.

Mike Hughes
211 Posted 04/11/2012 at 11:08:25
Ken #103

I was too gutted to even watch news highlights, let alone MoTD. It felt like a defeat but I take your point that shit happens. I'm just hoping Newcastle can rescue the weekend this afternoon.

More than anything I'm hoping that this last month has been our "blip" in the season and we can kick on from here. It feels like we should be on 20-21 points at this stage given the way we've been playing.

Jon Cox
212 Posted 04/11/2012 at 10:11:42
Derek Thomas 100% mate.

Anything to do with Phase or phasers then James T Kirk has got to be your man.

Brian Denton
213 Posted 04/11/2012 at 11:33:42
"Just got back from the Cottage. Haven't even watched the recording of the match yet."

It's not the fucking 'Cottage'; it's not the fucking 'Bridge'; it's not the fucking 'Lane'. It's Craven Cottage; Stamford Bridge; White Hart Lane. That twat Colin Murray started this, and it gets on my nerves.

Brent Stephens
214 Posted 04/11/2012 at 11:45:12
Ken, I love you attitude to football. Enjoy the highs, accept that "shit happens" as you say.

Just watching Goals on Sunday on Sky. Patrice Muamba is on... beautiful guy, no side at all to him. Luis Suarez - take note.

Tom Bowers
215 Posted 04/11/2012 at 12:44:41
When you have the lead in the closing stages, it pays to introduce a fresh attacker which can keep defenders back in there own half by chasing them down, if only for 5 or 10 minutes, much like AJ used to do.

When you bring on an extra defender, you effectively say, "Okay, send all your defenders forward, we have the men to stop you." — How many times has that failed?

Coaches who have been around a long time should know this but many don't.
Ken Crowther
216 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:07:52
Brian Denton #108

Up yours!!!

Karl Masters
217 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:16:53
Brian Denton (#108):

I'm sure there must be a fucking mental condition you are suffering from there!

Murray's one of the few decent media Reds around in my opinion.

Paul Andrews
218 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:26:34
Up yours?

That`s a different type of cottage. :)
Darren Alexander
219 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:13:54
First post here from a lifelong Evertonian. I still don't quite know what to think about how this ended in a draw. The battering we gave them in the 2nd half should have yielded at least a third, if not a fourth goal which would have seen us comfortably over the line.

Fellaini's thumping volley would have gone in on most days, and Naismith's one that was cleared off the line really should have been the killer blow (I like Naismith, and think he was the pick of the players from the Rangers exodus – although I'm now starting to think we really should have gone for Allan McGregor too).

I did actually think that two would be enough seeing as we were so firmly camped in their half and they barely seemed to be able to get an attack going once we went 2 - 1 up. While I don't really want to criticise the decision to bring Distin on, at that stage we really had no need to defend - the back line was having an easy time of it with the ball permanently in the Fulham half, so it's not quite the same as, say, being under the cosh from Barcelona in the last minute of the game, is it?

Of course, we shouldn't forget our generally poor first half display, which seemed to pick up from our last London trip a couple of weeks back at QPR. In the first half, I thought we were poor against an average side, and just like at Loftus Road conceded a soft early goal.

At that stage I genuinely felt a point would be OK, as it looked as if the next goal might well be theirs. From then on we huffed and puffed our way through to half time, with that thumping drive from Jags being the main point of interest – impressive, but you could try those all day and never score.

So, it was a bit of a strange one, and while I'm in total agreement that we should have won comfortably, it's a pity that it took until the equaliser for us to really wake up. It's almost as if we didn't really look like getting back in it until we were actually back in it.

And Fulham really are no great shakes – we should be routinely dispatching sides like that if we have serious ambitions, as opposed to simply another comfortable top 10 finish.

Brent Stephens
220 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:41:25
Paul. Brilliant!
Brian Denton
221 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:53:26
Karl, talking of mental conditions....

"Murray's one of the few decent media Reds around in my opinion"

So, you think:

(a) There is such a thing as a decent media Red; and
(b) Murray's one of them

Anyway, my 'mental condition' is hating all the Premier League and its media hangers-on stand for. Sorry.

Please Sir, may I continue to post.......?

Jim Knightley
222 Posted 04/11/2012 at 13:44:43
Robbie... How utterly superb to refer to last year as a means to support a flawed argument? Are you so foolish that you do not see the extensive differences between this year and the first half-season debacle of last season? I’ll give you a few clues: Mirallas, Pienaar, Jelavic, Gibson etc etc. The only thing I will ever learn from you, is how to create an opinion which doesn't exist, and then argue against it.

Now, what part of the following statement, leads you to believe I advocated last year's tactics... in a post in which I declared how much better we were this season, than last:

Robbie...I love your thesis about how adding a defender increases one's chance of losing a goal... you should let managers know the world over, because they've been doing it wrong all this time...

Question: is it not possible that Fulham, would have scored whatever we did? For some reason, numerous considerations of why we drew ignore the fact that Fulham would have come at us... because they needed to. They were the home team, and they were losing.

We should have protected the lead... the players should have protected the lead. We should have won the match previously, but we should have had enough to keep Fulham at bay. I would have kept Mirallas on personally... but maybe his recent injury played a part.

Now, I think way you keep referring to Man Utd is fantastic… The same Man Utd team, who lost a lead in injury time this week, because they did not defend a lead. The same Man Utd team who Ferguson has referred to as losing the title because of the 4-4 draw with us… when they famously failed to defend their lead. And which manager won the title last season? Mancini… The same manager who consistently protected leads, by swapping attacking players for defensive players.

Just as yesterday, the brilliant Barcelona made a tactically defensive change, swapping Cesc for a centre-back, allowing Busquet to revert to a dm role, and taking control of the match. I could refer to Mourinho’s tactics… who consistently pulled off miracles with Porto and Inter etc etc. However, I agree with you partly on our flawed corner tactics, but I would advocate a better example of defensive corner tactics: Jose Mourinho’s.

Now managers across the world over swap attacking players for defensive in order to protect a lead. Why? Because it makes sense. Yesterday we drew: 1) Because we failed to take chances; 2) and because of an individual error from Coleman, who tried to find a pass and left us exposed.

You can blame the tactics, because we drew. In the same way that, later in the season, we will let a lead go, and people will come on here and criticise Moyes for leaving too many attacking players on, and not dropping back. But Fulham were going to come at us at the end of the match, without any doubt, because they were the home team, and were losing.

We lack defensive solidarity in the centre of midfield, and are playing in a fashion which allows chances for the opposition. It made tactical sense to strengthen the back line, and attempt to limit Fulham. It failed, not tactically, but because of an individual error which left us exposed.

We drew yesterday, because we continued to attack, because Coleman tried to find an intricate pass instead of clearing it, and because Pienaar ran up the pitch looking for a third, and left us exposed down our left hand side.

Danny Kewley
223 Posted 04/11/2012 at 14:02:33
No use dwelling on what could/should have been! As far as stats go, I would argue we had at least 75% of possession. Staying in the glass half-full club, this time last year we were 17th. We are delighting footy fans all over the country and I'm sure we can turn these annoying draws into 3 pointers starting next week.
Brendan McLaughlin
224 Posted 04/11/2012 at 14:16:42
Jim #127
Could have (cough, cough) put it a little better myself but thankfully you saved me the typing. Haven't seen a better critique of a closing PHASE (NB Robbie Shields - TW also enables & informs) of a game in a long, long time.
Ken Crowther
225 Posted 04/11/2012 at 14:26:17
Brian Denton #125

"..my...mental condition is hating all the Premier League..."

The why the hell would you want to participate in an Everton fans' forum? The last time Everton weren't in the Premier League, or its equivalent, was 58 years ago.

Speaking personally, I'd rather you didn't post. Like I said, up yours!!!

Ken Crowther
226 Posted 04/11/2012 at 14:35:18
Paul Andrews #119

Wonderful!

Andy Walker
227 Posted 04/11/2012 at 15:40:38
Jim, spot on mate, logical argument with supporting evidence. What the .... are you doing posting here!!!
Brian Denton
228 Posted 04/11/2012 at 16:11:18
Ken, if you see no difference between what the Premier League has become and what existed before it then you are either too young to make the comparison (in which case I'll forgive you) or deluding yourself. Either way, I'll write on the Forum as and when I see fit - though I must admit I do regret posting something which started off relatively light-heartedly and has ended up with somebody telling me they'd rather I didn't post.

Takes all kinds, I guess.

Barry Granton
229 Posted 04/11/2012 at 17:36:57
I can't believe some of the comments, how anyone can find fault is beyond me. The team gave it their all and we were just a little unlucky they jammed a goal.

The supporters comments who went the game really say it all, great to read. We're fourth in the league, playing our best ever football. Poor Martin Jol won't be able to sit down all week.

If we continue playing the way we are, I honestly think we can still win the league! Seriously I do! I really hope in January we strengthen with a couple of class players, and don't sell Fellaini (not even for £50 million).

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
230 Posted 04/11/2012 at 18:04:53
Lads, there's over 200 comments on this thread... will those of you who start with "Just got home from the game and can't believe some of the stuff on here"; "I can't believe some of the comments" and (on another thread) "Some shite spoke on here, do some of these people watch or go any games?" – please just can it.

I can't believe anybody hasn't figured out by now that Evertonians do not all think like you do! Read any thread on here: people have a whole slew of opinions about almost any issue you care to raise, from one extreme, all the way across the spectrum to the other end (with the possible exception of Ratboy!). And games contain a thousand incidents, all of which can be viewed in different ways.

Yes, offer your opinion, but please don't overinflate your opinion with crap like this. Thanks!

Brent Stephens
231 Posted 04/11/2012 at 18:12:25
Whoa, Michael! That's being a tad sensitive, isn't it. I read those who've been to the game as saying just that - they've been to the game. I don't think they're dissing the views of others, just asking if they watched it (I assume at Fulham, on internet or on Sky on Sat night) because some views do seem off the wall. And what's with all the bold - that shouts out just as if you use CAPS, which aren't allowed, are they?!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
232 Posted 04/11/2012 at 18:20:12
I think you highlight one thing I really don't like to read on here, Brent, which is the presumption that you have a different opinion, therefore you did not watch the game... and the implication that, had you watched the game, you would of course agree with the view of the poster.

You're doing it yourself with this "some views do seem off the wall" comment. All you are really saying is that YOU don't agree with those comments. But they are by default valid for those who made them. (Notwithstanding wind-up merchants.)

All I'm asking is that people recognize and accept the wide range of opinions held — and that's really all they are. You don't have to agree with the all the opinions posted — that would be humanly impossible. But to use this mechanism to over-inflate your own opinion is offensive. Read the posts; most people can deliver their opinions without stooping to this tactic.

Tom Bowers
233 Posted 04/11/2012 at 18:22:13
Some people have stated we should not be disappointed with the result because the team ''gave it their all'' and other such references.

Well, if that's what you want the team to do, dropping 2 points each week, and not even to the top clubs, then be prepared for another long disappointing season.

Most of us are not knocking the team but the setup in general, starting with Moyes and Round who are making the decisions. Everton are still up there but have been lucky that other results are benefitting them up to now.

The team is playing well despite some obvious weaknesses they still have which we all hope Moyes will address before we start moving the wrong way in the table, which will surely happen by drawing every week. We could have lasted another minute and won the game but we couldn't and the fact that we had 29 attempts at goal and only scored twice left us in a vulnerable position right to the end.

We should have scored a bagful and a number of players were guilty of poor finishing. Next week we should beat Sunderland handsomely if the lessons have been learnt.
Brent Stephens
234 Posted 04/11/2012 at 18:45:27
Michael, you say of those who start by saying they've just got back from the game "I can't believe anybody hasn't figured out by now that Evertonians do not all think like you do!" If that's not dissing some of the wide range of opinion, what is?! Seems inconsistent to me.

I didn't go to the game but was just surprised you were having a pop at them. As I say, I didn't read their posts as over-inflating their own opinion just because they went to the game.

And I do feel some opinions are over the top. Tell me anybody on here (including those who don't say they've just got back from the game) who don't thinkl that!

And they say it. But that's one of the joys of TW.

Michael, not looking to pick a fight. I actually think TW is great, and well edited.

Nick Entwistle
235 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:09:25
Whichever way you want to look at it, Brent, Its all gone a bit YouTube... Minus the 9/11 slagging match that turns up on every page of course.
Douglas Turner
236 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:04:33
Ken Crowther # 103, I mentioned earlier that if it wasn't for Fellaini we'd be in the brown stuff! But would also like to mention that Howard aint cutting it like he used to! Sorry Tim! Shape up or ship out!
Brent Stephens
237 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:17:34
Guess I see what you mean, Nick.
Douglas Turner
238 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:14:14
OMG What have I done??? I've only gone and started a new brigade! xD Got to give a special "Shape Up or Ship Out" shout out to Captain Phil who has been simply FN woeful of late!
David Barks
239 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:20:23
Douglas,
So Howard was responsible for the goals yesterday too. Not the stupid free kick given away and the ball coming back off the post, or should Howard have known that would happen and not made an effort to make the save. And I'm sure it was Howard's fault that Coleman gave the ball away then failed to mark his man when the cross came in. Yeah, definitely Howard's fault.
Nelly Verdonghan
240 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:14:59
Fuckin Coleman...sorry just not up to it.....dribbling in midfield and losing the ball when he should have just put his foot through it and sent it to the furthest corner of the pitch....then being totally unaware that Sidwell was behind him whilst he weakly tried to shield the ball out of play....fucking garbage !!

He's supposed to be a pro playing in the 'best league in the world'....these are basic sunday morning mistakesand he makes far too many of em...people are blaming the strikers but we were winning 2-1 at this point....If Coleman had done his job then the game was won...end of

Coleman....game...enthusiastic... yes....but simply just not good enough !!

Jamie Barlow
241 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:37:56
I don't like the blame game but Ossie lost out weakly for the first goal. Neville was at fault for the free kick. Clumsy tackle. Howard should have done better with the free kick. Not his fault it came back off the post but didn't even look to stretch.

The second was down to Coleman losing the ball in midfield. Should have wellied it. Baines and Pienaar didn't close down the cross quick enough. Distin should have cut it out. Heitinga jumped away from it like he did in the other box when he should have scored and Coleman was out muscled or formless at the back post.

Like I said though, I don't like to point the blame.

Andy Walker
242 Posted 04/11/2012 at 19:29:00
Michael, I think people have picked up on a few posts not because they have a different opinion, but rather that this opinion is justified based on factually inaccurate statements, eg, as soon as we scored Moyes brought on Distin and Mourinho and other PL managers would never bring on a defender for a striker to protect a lead. Clearly these are factually incorrect statements, not a matter of opinion and surely it's only right and proper that posts expressing opinions based on fallacy are challenged.

Lots of good banter, obviously we should have a broad range of opinions, but not based on stuff that's fiction. It only sows a seed in my mind as to the motives of those few who make inaccurate statements, I'm probably just being paranoid though. I do believe that this may have prompted some, although not all of the 'where you at the match type' questions.

I'm not dismissing your request to posters, I think its fair enough, but I do think for balance this is a reasonable point to make.

As ever I really appreciate your and the editorial team's work on the site. Sounds sycophantic but true!
Paul Andrews
243 Posted 04/11/2012 at 20:02:33
David@ 173,

My point was that Howard should have put the free kick around the post. Then there would have been no rebound.

Jamie@ 176
I think Heitinga knew he was offside so left it as he was aware Fellaini was behind him, a very quick piece of thinking imo.

Jamie Barlow
244 Posted 04/11/2012 at 20:22:58
Paul, if that's the case then I apologise to Johnny.
The thought never crossed my mind.
Ian Hogg
245 Posted 04/11/2012 at 20:17:05
I've had a good 24 hours to reflect on yesterday. As everyone knows, it was a combination of bad finishing and bad luck. As desperate and partly predictable the Fulham equaliser was (especially after Naismith's miss), I am not too distressed as a few posters have correctly pointed out a year ago we were playing some of the worst depressing football I certainly have ever paid to watch.

Twelve months on I'm like a kid again... I can't wait to see our next game! It's like a throwback to the HK1 era (similarly preceded by atrocious football). Out of the blue, albeit with a couple of really decent signings, we are playing fantastic proper football, creating chances and scoring goals; the side looks balanced, we are difficult to beat and the spirit of the team/club is there for all to see.

I think, however, fans look at fixtures and see Wigan and QPR as automatic 3 points. In all honesty I would have taken a point before yesterday's game, Fulham are a good side and we made them look ordinary.

This Saturday's game will be difficult; anyone who thinks we just have to turn up because of Sunderland's recent record at Goodison needs to be reminded that, as good as we are playing, we haven't won in four games.

I just wish we were not chasing games after 10 minutes — I think this will be properly resolved when Gibson comes back... Anyone know when he will be back?

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
246 Posted 04/11/2012 at 20:49:29
Andy (#177) — I have no problem with people addressing specific inaccuracies, I do it myself... but that is not what I'm talking about.

Generalizations about what managers may or may not do in certain circumstances are fraught with danger because there will always be exceptions others can point to; I'm not talking about that either.

It's the general post that starts off along the lines of "there's some right shit posted on this thread" with no attempt at being specific, along with the ones who play the "you can't have watched / been at the game" card only because they disagree with the posted opinions.

Andy Walker
247 Posted 04/11/2012 at 21:01:52
I'm with you Michael.
Robbie Shields
248 Posted 04/11/2012 at 21:28:19
Jim #127, I've made an observation and tried to describe it, no need to get all defensive and make personal attacks, not necessary. Guess what, we have a difference of opinion, get over it.

You think Moyes's tactics at the end where right, I thought they were wrong. Amazingly, you give a selection of examples from the world of football that makes you correct – who'd have thought it! I could give you a list of Everton matches where it hasn't worked, but you probably know them already and are just ignoring them yourself because they don't support your view, and that's it in a nutshell: your view, my view, different views – understand?
Michael Kenrick
249 Posted 04/11/2012 at 21:53:28
Watching the game again, I'm surprised at those who felt that Jelavic has been starved of service. Nothing could be further from the truth, unfortunately.

I'm only at half-time but there were at least four separate occasions in the first half (including that shockingly poor header) when the ball has been delivered right to him and he has messed it up. And that's not because he was being closely marked either. Sadly, the Iceman is is freezing on contact, and I don't what can be done to rectify it.

Ray Jacques
250 Posted 04/11/2012 at 21:17:27
Nelly,

Couldnt agree more. Coleman has been responsible for 3 goals in the past 4 games and its the same error each time of getting the wrong side of his man. Agree he,s good going forward but his job is to defend at right back.

Whenever the ball goes to him within 30 yards of our goal then I feel uncomfortable as a mistake is never far away. Am not a player 'basher' as his effort cannot be faulted, however at that level of football and if we want to stay high in the league then unfortunately a defender as error prone as as Seamus cannot be accommodated.

When he first came into the team I thought he was at his best when not having time to think what he was going to do with the ball and he charged forward but as soon as he had time to think was caught in possession or he gave the ball away. Unfortunately at full back he gets a little more time on the ball when in possession, has time to think where he wants to pass it and then is caught in two minds. I think he is an instinctive player and not one who has tactical nous or acumen, hence never a full back.

Michael Kenrick
251 Posted 04/11/2012 at 22:08:11
Paul (#179) — I'm just going back over that bizarre Heitinga miss, and you might be right: he was offside and looking down the line at Baines when the ball was kicked in, he would have known that.

But his movement seems odd from there on, running toward the ball and flicking his leg (rather than simply jumping) at the moment and place where the ball bounced.

I think he was trying flick the ball in the net, à la Welbeck or suchlike, and he completely missed it. That's certainly what Fellaini thought who watched in stunned amazement as all this unfolded in front of him, Heitinga's movement totally throwing him off from properly attacking the ball.

Chris James
252 Posted 04/11/2012 at 22:38:27
On a different note it's good to see our friends from across the park living up to their football ethics....

1. Lovely bit of close passing and steady build up play for their goal wasn't it?
2. Also good to see that lovely young man Suarez being given protection and Coloccini getting sent off for a terrible challenge! (It doesn't matter that he didn't make contact, it's definitely a much worse foul than Suarez on Distin in the derby so I applaud the refereeing consistency).

#irony

Tom Bowers
253 Posted 04/11/2012 at 23:24:44
Coleman puts in a great deal of good work and is playing to instructions. He has the speed and cleverness; however, he is not perfect and no player is. If he makes a mistake at the back, then he can be criticised... but even the best defenders make mistakes and sometimes get out of jail with somebody else mopping up.

Sometimes he is our best attacker even when he is at full back like this season. I would sooner have him than anyone else we have on the books at present. No, I am not Irish.
Drew O'Neall
254 Posted 04/11/2012 at 23:52:58
I applaud Collocini for trying to put Louie Sewers out of the game for a few weeks, very community-minded.
Tony Farrell
255 Posted 04/11/2012 at 23:52:11
"What's occurring, ToffeeWebbers?"

I cannot anyone see who watched the match on Saturday that the game was obviously drawn down to poor finishing and a good saves from their goalie and yet again a poor display from our keeper!

No need to worry about that — Jela is a natural and just needs a goal. Felli is brilliant but needs to do that every week as he is the highest paid player on £75k a week!

It's plain to the naked eye that our USA number one is making too many schoolboy errors. For me, watching the great Southall in the flesh, week-in & week-out, was a masterclass in goalkeeping... Howard does not come out and defend his box. he is rooted to his line all the time.

Today's equalizer was a fucking debacle, and he should have never been beaten for the first, rooted to the line again... just like last week for the bucked toothed little rat to score. How many times does he get beaten by staying on his line and he not come out for crosses?

Watching Neville Southall, if you were a central defender you had to get out of the way because Neville would take you out as well as the attacking forward, Top quality keeper needed to add competition..., nuff said!
Andy Crooks
256 Posted 05/11/2012 at 00:17:17
Ray, Seamus has very little experience as a premier league full back. He will undoubtedly improve defensively and I believe he will be a top class right back for years to come. In fact I think he may well be the shrewdest signing Moyes has ever made.We dropped points yesterday because our striker has hit a barren spot. That will pass.

Incidentally it seems that Darren Gibson's standing improves with every game he misses. If he's still out by Christmas he'll be our own Messi.

Robert Elliott
257 Posted 05/11/2012 at 00:20:44
Don't like to dwell on our friends across the park too much, but anyone else think Brendan Rodgers is becoming more and more delusional by the week?!
James Martin
258 Posted 05/11/2012 at 00:25:24
Just made up they dropped points at home. Results went our way this weekend no doubt about it, we can't keep opening the door for teams though especially at home, we need to start punishing Arsenal and Tottenham when they drop points. Head to heads could be huge this year between us and the Londoners.
Christopher Kelly
259 Posted 05/11/2012 at 03:48:52
Did anyone else think Heitinga could've cleared before it got to Sidwell? Looked to me like he could have.
Paul Andrews
260 Posted 05/11/2012 at 07:07:23
Tom @206,

Coleman is decent going forward. I would prefer him to try to be our best defender, rather than best attacker.

Roman Sidey
261 Posted 05/11/2012 at 07:12:54
If you'd told me a at the start of this run that we'd get four points from QPR, Wigan, Liverpool and Fulham I would have asked which player of ours died. Four draws against that opposition has to be regarded as a slump, and those eight points dropped are eight points (six if I'm being generous) we should have on top of our current total.

The next three games are now must wins, and even Arsenal at home has to be approached as very winnable. I'm happy with our total losses over the last few seasons as we truly are a hard team to beat, but it's the draws that kill us. We're already 4-5-1 - drawn half our games.

It's all good and well to say, "one of these teams is going to get a battering when we finish our chances," but it could go the other way and we lose an important game (they're all important, by the way) to one of the poor goals we seem to concede and missing all our chances in the same match.

To think of it, there's not many games were the goals we've conceded have been impressive, which is alarming that we seem to ship poor goals.

Time to start putting these teams away.

Paul Gladwell
262 Posted 05/11/2012 at 08:47:09
Michael, that was my comment and I stand by it about some shit wrote on here.

My point is sometimes I go the game (sorry) like Villa away and I saw 3,000 Evertonians partying in the sun yet, on the way back, I logged on my iPhone in the car to the matchday forum and saw comments having a go at the the team for the second-half performance, I just could not believe what I was reading.

I understand everyone should have their own opinion, yet I see 3,000 smiling faces who witnessed the performance and no-one was having a moan and yet read someone's opinion who had watched on a stalling internet stream and wonder what the hell they were watching.

Like it or not, those who are lucky, or those who are bothered to go the game can see things that someone on an internet stream cannot. It does not mean because certain fellas went the game they are right either, but sometimes people are just out for a moan at any cost.
Matt Traynor
263 Posted 05/11/2012 at 09:03:16
Andy #209, fair play to you for constantly mounting a sterling defence of the Irish players, but to describe Coleman as possibly Moyes's most shrewd signing is non sequitur territory.

In fact, your defending of him is far better than his defending for that 2nd goal!

Sam Hoare
264 Posted 05/11/2012 at 09:40:27
Matt, considering that Coleman's value has probably multiplied from £60k to anywhere between £2m-£5m I think that looks, at least financially, like a very shrewd signing!
Tony J Williams
265 Posted 05/11/2012 at 12:15:16
I was wondering, are the same posters who used to say that they would rather we get beat but go for it are the same ones who are now having a go at Moyes for not winning, even though it seems that we are, in fact, going for it........seemingly at the expense of our defensive record?
Bill Griffiths
266 Posted 05/11/2012 at 14:15:54
We're in 4th place, scoring plenty of goals (though conceding too many) and playing as good as football as any team in the Premier League and and it seems half of us are still not in the slightest bit happy. Okay, there is still room for improvement in certain areas but surely our league placing and much improved start to the season doesn't deserve the hugely negative reaction of many of the posters on here?

Also while I agree Coleman has to take some of the blame for the last minute equaliser he wasn't the only one to blame and other than that he wasn't far off being man of the match and I think he is certainly worth persevering with at right back for the time being. My main concern is that I think that in all games we should use Pienaar on the left and Mirallas on the right and only switch and cross over as a last resort if things are not working out.
Michael Kenrick
267 Posted 05/11/2012 at 14:32:23
Bill, "hugely negative reaction of many of the posters on here" — Disappointment that we did not win after such a tremendous display is entirely justified. I assume that is what you are referring to with your blanket statements that are quite honestly complete hyperbole.
Tony J Williams
268 Posted 05/11/2012 at 16:13:54
"it seems half of us are still not in the slightest bit happy. " - Absolutely no-one should be happy with that result on Saturday, we battered them and should have won comfortably. It was certainly two points dropped, none of this "happy with an away point" rubbish, we should be putting these chances away whilst we are still playing when.

Await the inevitable dip in form from players...... although, I suppose we did mug them last season at their gaffe

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
269 Posted 05/11/2012 at 16:24:26
Well, Paul (#234), I think you prove the point I was making — you can't come up with anything specific about this thread and the Fulham game, so you drag stuff up from the Live Forum (of all places!) about Aston Villa (away) — that was over two months ago!!!

Case closed!
Paul Gladwell
270 Posted 05/11/2012 at 19:26:52
No, Michael I could've actually, it was the abuse levelled at certain players after a performance that's had most on lookers heaping praise on us and it's happening every week on here despite the fact we are fourth. Yes, everyone has a right to their opinion and mine was my opinion about this site and your contradictory ways, but it's case closed.
David Collier
271 Posted 05/11/2012 at 20:24:55
I am trying to understand why there is so much negativity amongst Evertonians when the quality of football entertainment being played at the moment, home and away, is so exciting.

We all know about paying our hard earned money which entitles us to hurl abuse at our team, whether that criticism is justified or not.

Do we want our young players to do well at Goodison Park and be confident and successful in our teams, yet I find many of our so-called fans can only slag the lads off because of their faults, ending up ruining their confidence.

It takes time, patience and so much hard work to get a special football team like ours producing entertaining football that is the envy of so many other clubs and spectators, win, lose or draw, in the Premier League.

The league we are in is so unforgiving and in any season we could be the ones being relegated. Give our lads as much encouragement as you can, try and smile through the pain when we lose because this year we have been privileged to witness the School of Science rising like a phoenix from the ashes of the past.

Ken Crowther
272 Posted 06/11/2012 at 08:36:56
Brian #147

Sorry for the delay in replying, my mum said I had to take the day off yesterday.

Actually, my first match was Oldham v Everton in 1954, my dad took me because he thought, quite rightly it turns out, that it was Everton's last match in the old Second Division. So I don't need your patronising forgiveness. It can only be that I'm delusional.

Perhaps what you should have said in your post #125 was "...hating all that the Premier League has become..." then we'd have understood what you meant

Michael #156

As one of those who started my post "Having just got home..." I accept your authority in the matter, but not the validity of your argument. On a purely personal basis (and there will be many, many more like me, particularly those who live abroad) who no longer attend regularly. I haven't been to the Grand Old Lady for quite some time; but happen to have been fortunate enough to have been able to attend both the QPR and Fulham games, so I suppose I was boasting just a bit.

Just to prove that I'm consistent (even if, in your judgement, wrong) there was another thread recently where the question was asked "Do non-attenders have the same rights to an opinion as those who get to the game?" - or words to the effect.

My answer, as somebody who classes himself as one of the former, was, in words or substance, "Of course they have a right to an opinion; but it's validity must be more questionable, and as a non-attender, the value of their opinion might very well be less."

Douglas Turner
273 Posted 07/11/2012 at 01:42:07
@ David Barks...That ball was going so slow, it was like something out of Aeroplane the Movie! Sad to say, Howard was typical Howard that day when it comes to slow balls, I'm sorry but it is what it is!

Yes, he's one of (if not the) best shot blockers around when it comes to ball's coming at him at lightning speeds! The faster the better! But Shit! What's up with them slow balls? And exaggerating that I blamed him for everything (knowing fully well that not all coms get read) is a cheap move!
David Barks
274 Posted 07/11/2012 at 03:26:35
Douglas,

If Baines took that free kick we'd all be talking about what an expertly taken free kick it was. I just watched the replay and the thing had a ton of bend on it. From the start it looks like it's heading for the left corner and bends all the way to the right corner. It was a very good free kick that he did not let in the goal. The damn thing came off the post, you realize that right?

Ian Bennett
275 Posted 07/11/2012 at 07:32:02
Neville giving the free kick away was unfortunately typical Phil. Howard could have done better. It wasn't great, but neither was it easy. I listened to it on the radio, and Sharp's initial assessment was harsh IMHO.

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