Moyes: Contract talks unlikely before the end of January

, 27 November, 66comments  |  Jump to most recent
Boss in wait-and-see mode
There is unlikely to be any movement on David Moyes's new contract until February at the earliest after the Everton boss admitted that he wants to assess the Club's ambitions based on what happens during the upcoming transfer window.

The Scot's current deal expires in the summer and, worryingly for many supporters, formal negotiations regarding an extension have yet to take place.

When pressed on the issue, Moyes has been relaxed about the situation but his latest comments are the clearest indication yet that he is waiting to see Chairman Bill Kenwright's vision for the next five years, primarily with regard to financing future team-building.

Moyes presides over one of the smallest and shallowest squads in the Premier League and the Blues' hopes of finally boarding the Champions League gravy train this season have been hit hard in recent weeks by injury, suspensions and poor form.

He has made no secret of his desire to bolster his playing staff and provide sufficient competition for places but has been forced to sell before he can buy for the last three years.

Just as important as what funds he may have available in January will be how hard the Board fights to keep the Club's best players in the New Year. There is likely to be strong interest in the likes of Leighton Baines and Marouane Fellaini from rival clubs, both of whom could command enormous transfer fees.

"I will probably wait until we have got over January and see how things go," Moyes is quoted in The Guardian.

"I want to see what we're going to do and where the club are looking to move to in the future. And that's what I'm really looking for as well. It's probably going to be after the new year before [Kenwright and I] speak."

"I think most people would say the Everton job looks as though it is a good job and we've got a good team," he continued.

"It has taken a long time to get to this point but what we're looking to do at Everton is get to the point where it's easy to keep all our good players. That obviously means getting to the summit or getting around the summit."

The Goodison hierarchy may get more wriggle room from the increased revenue coming down the pipeline from the huge Premier League television rights deals for the domestic and foreign markets, although they may choose to channel that cash into debt reduction rather than use it on player purchases.

Moyes acknowledged as much but also highlighted the increased attractiveness to investors of an established Premier League club like Everton, saying, "It might help remove some of our debt problems but I really don't know. I would have thought it makes Everton a really good-looking club and an attractive proposition."

Quotes or other material sourced from The Guardian



Reader Comments (66)

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Ciarán McGlone
1 Posted 27/11/2012 at 23:25:39
To be honest, if I was him, I'd try and put the 20% pay cut off as long as possible too...
Patrick Murphy
2 Posted 27/11/2012 at 23:47:15
If anything highlighted a need for change as regards the ownership of the club, then this article spells it out.

If Moyes were to have Everton sitting pretty in the top 4 come Christmas, BK would say:

"Davey Boy, there's no need to add to the squad, in fact why don't we slow-pedal from here and maybe let one of our major assets go in order to keep the bank off my back. After all, Davey, the club is bigger than the manager or any player."

If Moyes's team is struggling come Christmas, BK would say to DM:

"Well, Davey Boy, I know you need additions but you realise that you'll have to sell before we buy – and by the way, if you could reduce the wage bill at the same time, that would keep the bank off my back."

To say our supporters are and have been conned is an understatement; it is a disgrace to the name of Everton FC and all it stands for!

2013 could well be an unlucky year, unless of course BK pulls a rabbit out of the hat.

Paul Smith
3 Posted 28/11/2012 at 00:00:19
This really sounds like the last chance saloon for us getting anywhere near the top 4. Surely a bit of investment now to try and get in the promised land is the way to go and if you don't get in we sell 1 or 2 of our better players and the money will be back in the bank.
Douglas Turner
4 Posted 28/11/2012 at 01:16:43
Good to see the Manager standing up to Bill-Co! It wasn't a week ago that DM announced that we won't be splashing out in January. Think maybe DM hasn't given up the ghost just yet and is pulling his one and only trump card out!
Peter Thistle
5 Posted 28/11/2012 at 01:54:05
'Bill Kenwright' and 'vision' in the the same sentence? As if.
Lewis Barclay
6 Posted 28/11/2012 at 07:00:47
December 2012 looks like it could be the end of Everton FC as we know it.

We must pull off some very good results against some of the allegedly better teams in the PL, starting tonight with a win against Arsenal. It's down to the players, then the manager and then ultimately the board to make sure the next period is a step in the right direction.

Paul Andrews
7 Posted 28/11/2012 at 07:25:35
He will assess the situation. Have a long hard chat with Mr Chairman and be told it is same old same old — there is no money unless he sells.

Then he will sign his improved contract.

"The chairman and I have a great relationship, he gives me every penny he can, he does his absolute best for this club..." etc etc.
Peter Barry
8 Posted 28/11/2012 at 07:10:59
'Master Tactician' Davey Moyes has been in charge now for 10 years and Everton have not in that time — and what's more, have never looked likely to — win anything.

Time for Davey to move on, and take his fabulous coaching team with him, and use his fabulous "man management and motivational skills" in a more deserving cause before Everton becomes more full of Scottish 'has-beens' and 'never-were's draining the coffers.
Peter Barry
9 Posted 28/11/2012 at 07:42:36
Does anyone, except the most deluded Moyesophile, reasonably expect Davey boy to walk away from £65k pw and a job where he is under absolutely no pressure whatsoever to deliver? Where else would he get such a cushy number??? Dream on.
Ged Simpson
10 Posted 28/11/2012 at 08:02:00
I think December 2012 will be an important month too Lewis. A poor December and selling Baines/Fellaini could trigger the exit of the manager and a quick decline.

Tom Bowers
11 Posted 28/11/2012 at 08:07:01
I think the sooner Moyes goes the better. After all these years he still hasn't been able to mould a good enough team to challenge the top echelons.

Yes, there have been moments when we as fans thought we were turning the corner, just like this season, but he just doesn't have what it takes and I am not sure he has the impetus anyway now that he knows no further money is available in January.

His mumblings now suggest he is wanting away and I say let him go. Everton need a new face and a fresh start, one that can galvanize and motivate this squad of players into believing they can win matches.
Peter Barry
12 Posted 28/11/2012 at 08:20:32
Chelsea were looking for a new manager recently... so how come 'Absolutely brilliant but underachieving because of Everton's money constraints' Davey Moyes was never in the frame?
Alan Williams
13 Posted 28/11/2012 at 08:34:18
Ged / Lewis, Happy Christmas to you too!! Miserable sods.

Moyes is playing a tactical game and putting pressure on his employers to get him more resources. He holds the cards as the club want him to stay... it's clever providing the club isn’t sold but, as Moyes has belief in his own ability, that probably is a win too for him.

I see him not signing as a positive: it means we have to make decisions at board level and break the monotony we are currently in. Either way, this should be viewed as a turning point and to say this is the end of EFC as we know it just pathetic — get some perspective in your lives!

EFC will have new owners; let’s just hope they have resources — our worst nightmare is a frustrated sale at any cost.

Watch this space…
Chris Stewart
14 Posted 28/11/2012 at 08:59:59
This is one the poorest leagues there has been for many a year...so I feel this is a "now or never" situation for us to make a step up.

Sadly though, money talks and players walk....so lets see how we stand at the end of January as that will be a barometer as to how ambitious the Club really is.

Gonna be a chilly one tonight!

Sam Hoare
15 Posted 28/11/2012 at 09:04:30
Fair play to Moyes essentially saying, "Cough up or find some dough, keep our best players or I'm out of here." A needed challenge to BK.

I reckon that Moyes could be off at the end of the season, along with Fellaini and maybe one or two others; we don't have the squad or the luck to make top 4. All part of BK's long term plan to lower the wage bill?

Barry Rathbone
16 Posted 28/11/2012 at 09:38:17
"The Everton boss admitted that he wants to assess the Club's ambitions "

Does he really... well, whoopy de do for Davey.

Piss off you cheeky get, you'll be found out soon enough.

John Keating
17 Posted 28/11/2012 at 09:52:23
Kenwright has been telling us for years that he's been looking for buyers and/or investors. So far he has been spectacularly unsuccessful. Why would Moyes now think investors are on the cards ?

If Moyes hasn't clicked after 10 years working with Kenwright that his Chairman is economical with the truth, then maybe Moyes needs to go – for treatment!
Patrick Murphy
18 Posted 28/11/2012 at 10:00:25
Barry, I agree that DM has his shortcomings when it comes to tactics, but the only person that will be found out will be Bill Kenwright, David Moyes has shielded this man for over 10 years.
Joe Bibb
19 Posted 28/11/2012 at 10:08:24
Get him signed soon — look how many other clubs have asked for him over the last two years... [laugh out loud]. No one wants him except Uncle Bill.

This man has had ten years and still he can't bring on a forward in time to win us a home game. No wonder there were 5,000 empty seats last Saturday.
Bob Skelton
20 Posted 28/11/2012 at 10:16:01
I'm afraid Moyes has already made his mind up. He's had 10 years to assess the situation. 10 weeks is not going to alter that assessment. We are a selling club with few resource, I believe he has read all of the hype in the press and wants to go to a club with money to spend.

What may keep him is that he picks up £65k a week and is fireproof at Everton.

My forecast: Moyes gone at end of season. Fellaine and baines sold for £40 million. Thespian Ken remaining for us to complain about...... BooHoo!

Trevor Lynes
21 Posted 28/11/2012 at 10:06:12
It is patently obvious that the money we have recouped over the past couple of years due to the losing of the clubs highest earners and the good sales of Rodwell etc are not filtering down to the manager.

Davey is frustrated and wants to know where the club stands in its ambitions (:)) ). BK is not ambitious at all and is content to survive as a club and take whatever plaudits the players earn by occasionally competing with the top four despite our small squad.

DM has the safest job in football but perhaps he is reaching the end of his tether and I for one do not blame him. He has basically dragged this team into outperforming most of the Premier League teams without finances. We are running on the smallest squad in the league and just praying for luck with injuries.

If we actually made the top 4 or 5 how could we compete in Europe with the present squad? Our youngsters do not appear to be up to scratch and we are signing players who have been released by lesser teams eg; McFadden, Hahnemann and now Hitzlsperger.

Just take a look at our pathetic bench compared to virtually every other team in the league. We desperately need replacements for Neville and Distin and very shortly Osman, Hibbert and Howard. We have no competition for Jelavic or Baines and scouting in Scotland is futile as there are no decent Scots available... they have not produced a world class player for ages.

It's regularly reported that other clubs are active in the transfer market and it's noticeable that whenever any other club shows interest in a player we drop out of the race! No-one showed interest in Fellaini, Beckford, Vellios, Jelavic, Naismith or Heitinga. Two have been decent acquisitions, Jelavic and Felli, the others are just journeymen.

Where is the money that was received for Arteta, Rodwell, Yakubu, Yobo, Beckford, Vaughan and Cahill? Where is the money that has been saved on their wages? We consistently loan out lots of players supposedly for their development but none seem to be pushing for a first-team place.

Fans tend to just see results and when we win a game it lets BK off the hook for a week or two. He will not invest in players unless we really slide and the fans stop watching the team. His goal is 40 points and that's about all, DM can stay as long as he wants so long as he toes the company line.....!!

Kevin Day
22 Posted 28/11/2012 at 10:39:09
His comments if true are definitely saying "Back me or I'm gone." I said he was using his contract situation to get players in back in the summer. If he does go, Pep Guardiola is out of work.

Right... off to take apart some wicker baskets.
Sam Hoare
23 Posted 28/11/2012 at 11:07:50
Trouble for Moyes is where would he go? Top 4 won't want him for lack of European and trophy winning experience and anyone below 6th is a step down.

I would say Tottenham or possibly Newcastle would be the only viable options for him if looking to stay at the same sort of level.

Maybe he's thinking abroad. Celtic? Then he'd win some trophies for sure and get to play in Europe.

Steven Telford
24 Posted 28/11/2012 at 11:06:28
How about you, you with someone at the moment, thinking of the future?

If not for DM.......... we could well have gone the way of Leeds or Notts Forest.
And if we lose DM, it could well be back to relegation dog fights. Remember those? been a few years eh? Even taking into account the last 2 games, for the most part I'm enjoying watching us this season. And, yes, everything is far from perfect, but everything is not lost. Chin up.

The kings of hindsight will always be there to knock DM......... fact is they can’t name the name of a better manager who would take the job. Bearing in mind that efficiency and resourcefulness is a requisite of managing Everton.

Jim Knightley
25 Posted 28/11/2012 at 11:23:09
I don't blame him... he is facing an impossible situation here, given our financial situation, as it is hard to consider a scenario by which we can actually improve (apart from getting Champions League football this season).

Hopefully BK will listen, and find something for us in January... This CB, and a couple of loans surely wouldn't be too problematic? I'd feel a lot more confident with Donovan/Sturridge and Vadis Odjidja-Ofoe/Ramsay in the squad.

I don't think he wants the world in January, just the potential of adding much needed numbers to the squad.

Alan Rooney
26 Posted 28/11/2012 at 12:02:04
This might also be a message to the banks: "Force us to sell and we lose our manager." Banks, being risk averse, might ease off the pressure on the debt reduction programme and even make funds available.
Dave Bruce
27 Posted 28/11/2012 at 12:12:30
This has come about 5 years too late. Moyes, why didn't you bring Kenwright to task years ago when the fans screamed out for change and you turned around and told us we have the best chairman around?!?

If our dour unambitious Manager is getting bored on his huge salary, what hope have we got of keeping ambitious players like Fellaini and Baines? Very bleak...

Don't renew then, Moyes, but please tell us who else would take a Manager who has failed to win anything!
Lewis Barclay
28 Posted 28/11/2012 at 13:05:55
Alan (#670):

I might try the same by suggesting that I might not buy my missus anything for Christmas and then slowly slip into decline as she does the off.

I don't think the banks will listen in either case.

Brian Waring
29 Posted 28/11/2012 at 13:41:02
"Hi Bill, it's the end of January, we have kept all our best players and we are still in with a good shout of a 4th place finish, how about another bumper pay rise to my already huge wad and I'll stay?"
Barry Granton
30 Posted 28/11/2012 at 13:33:52
Good on Moyes for making the board back him, they clearly have to. If David Moyes walks at the end of the season, a resulting implosion on their investment will occur. I know there's a fair few on here who don't think as highly as myself of Moyes and might not agree, but all the other managers who have been touted in the past as possible replacements are all doing terrible, there's not a manager in the Premier League who I'd rather have.

I'm looking forward to the game tonight. It's a fact when we play the top teams we always give it our all. It's only when we play supposedly easy games that some of our players seem to not be bothered. But as our bad patch resulted in nothing but draws when we deserved to win and we're still 5th, I think all is still very positive and hopefully David's ace card will see further investment.

Peter Foy
31 Posted 28/11/2012 at 13:42:15
Bill's been bullshitting the fans for so many years he's took his eye off the ball.

He bullshitted Moyes the last time he signed and he isn't gonna get away with it again. The players are also well wise to him now, and they probably don't give a shit about the boys pen.

I think Moyes is probably more concerned about who we lose in January and whether or not it will be 'last minute' with no time to re invest.

Is this the start of the end of Bill Kenwright?

Here's hoping.

Nick Entwistle
32 Posted 28/11/2012 at 14:02:49
Contract stipulation No.1 — If we don't make Champions League, I walk.

That would keep January smooth and untroubled. May even produce more than a zero net spend.

Jay Harris
33 Posted 28/11/2012 at 15:40:14
IMO, the talks have already taken place and Moyes, being the principled man that he undoubtedly is, knows that Fellaini and possibly Baines will be sold.

I don't think he cares that another job is not available. How long do you think someone with his pedigree (I know he hasn't won a trophy but who has outside of the billionaires' club?) will be out of work? In fact, he may even welcome a break at this stage.

He knows the fans are getting restless and will want to go out clean, ie, honoured his contract, still admired by most supporters and football pundits, and reputation unblemished.

You don't know what you got till it's gone.

James Morgan
34 Posted 28/11/2012 at 15:57:26
Tune in to TalkSport, boys, Moyes is the hot topic!
Paul Andrews
35 Posted 28/11/2012 at 15:52:43
Alan @ 639:

"Moyes is playing a tactical game."

Who showed him how to use tactics?

Nick Entwistle
36 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:05:10
Yeah, Adrian Durham. Don't think so.
James Morgan
37 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:17:29
The question is whether he is worth £77k a week without trophies and top 4.

Durham is a plank but it will be interesting to hear fellow Blues and neutrals phone in with their opinion.
Nick Entwistle
38 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:21:57
The guy is no more than a pointy stick jabbing into the ribs of reactionary working class listeners who respond to feeling aggrieved. That's his angle and doesn't care what he says so long as its upsetting someone. Polemicist bollocks.
Jim Knightley
39 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:18:54
David Bruce...seriously? Who would take Moyes? Over half the teams in this league I expect, if they had vacancies. He hasn't won anything yet... but he has turned a team with a relegation squad into consistent European spot contenders, with a fraction of the budget of most of the top half of the league during his tenure. I expect some Birmingham and Middlesborough fans would swap their Carling Cup for that wouldn't they?

Moyes has some faults, but I expect our next manager is more likely to take us down than achieve more success than Moyes, given our resources.

David Holroyd
40 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:21:38
Without David Moyes we would not have had seven top eight finishes in ten years! Yes he infuriates us sometimes no lots of times but who would we get if he left! Happy Harry Rednapp who hardly won a thing in 30 years of management, anyhow he's gone to moneybags QPR.

We have an 80 million pound turnover but Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle Chelsea, both Manchester clubs and Arsenal have turnovers at least double ours.

Moyes will not leave yet ,where can he go in Britain, 65 grand a week is a nice inducement to stay a little while longer. Spurs have a new manager after sacking Harry and Newcastle have given Pardew a ten year contract. No, he is here to stay.
Tony Cheek
41 Posted 28/11/2012 at 16:40:54
Ive been an anti Moyes Evertonian for years and unbelievably this season I was just starting to wonder if I had got him wrong, and probably not alone in wondering if he really did have a ten year plan. Then saturday it all came flooding back why I cant wait to see him move on.

His over cautious, boring, do nothing till its too late style raised its ugly head against Norwich and jogged me back to my senses. I just dream about the man taking a bleeding chance for once in his life. Giving Barkley a game( like Sterling gets a chance in the RS), giving Mucha a chance (to give Howard a kick up the arse), using Subs to actually change a game and even smiling for christ sake, but no, leopards do not change their spots.

God knows who can replace him, but I am getting to the point where I cannot bear to see his sour bloody face anymore. Give me someone who will put a smile back on our faces......!

Gerry Quinn
42 Posted 28/11/2012 at 17:02:00
Who would you have based on this "30 top paid Managers" list?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2239727/Top-30-best-paid-football-managers-world--Sir-Alex-Ferguson-England-boss-Roy-Hodgson-Jose-Mourinho-tops-list.html

Mark Tanton
43 Posted 28/11/2012 at 17:28:21
Tony you make some good, if depressing points. It's hard not to compare Barkley with Sterling. One gets a game and has probably improved massively since August, the other is sent on loan, starts to grow in confidence and is dragged back to sit on the bench.
James Martin
44 Posted 28/11/2012 at 17:16:09
Another of the classic ToffeeWeb truths that David Moyes is tactically inept. A bit like those Tottenham fans who considered Redknapp to be a tactical dunce in the middle of his 10 game winning streak.

Where does this come from? He came 4th one season with a side that were relegation fodder. Luck? ToffeeWeb's infamous football lottery? Or was it perhaps that he knows how to get the best out of his players and divised a formation that allowed us to win more games than most.

If Moyes picks a team and it wins the game he's never paised for getting the tactics right, in fact sometimes he's criticised for not changing it during the ten minutes of pressure we received at the end. I prefer a manager who has his team right from the kick off rather than one who has to make 3 subs a game and keep changing formation because he got it wrong.

Yes he makes some bad subs sometimes, but they're only ever bad in hindsight (Heitinga doesn't come on and we concede against Newcastle, Distin does ocme on and we concede against Fulham). Sometimes Moyes makes subs that everyone had been crying out for and it seemed the game needed but then an individual mistake will cost us points and suddenly he's tactically inept.

I'd suggest that by looking at his league finishes in relation to other teams who have spent a similar amount (or even catastrophically more) and his recent record against the top teams at home you'd see that he's not in fact tactically inept compared to the other managers in the premier league.

As for what happens if/when he leaves, then god knows, we'll be lucky to entice even an average manager, 'here's a club full of another manager's players, there's no money in the bank and a debt that needs servicing, and the expectation of the fan base is top 4 and a trophy or you're tactically inept, btw Liverpool and Tottenham have just spent 200 million between them and Arsenal bought your best player before you arrived yet we still expect you to finish ahead of all three, Good Luck'

Christopher Kelly
45 Posted 28/11/2012 at 17:45:03
So let me get this straight - Nowadays you can win the Champions League, then have a bad month and get canned. I guess that's how it works now!

Davey can have 10+ years of not winning anything and still sleep the best out of practically any manager in the Premiership... Yeah, he's not going anywhere.

As Vince Vaughn would say "I like where your head is at"... DM is doing the best to pull some cash out of these tightwads (Or maybe it's all a media stunt derived by BK) regardless, a fish rots at the head and until that situation is fixed, we will forever be the little pipsqueaks that are running in circles usually to be found somewhere between 6th and 10th in the table...

John Ford
46 Posted 28/11/2012 at 18:29:14
Everything that can possibly be won is won by the money clubs. If people haven't changed their criteria for success by now then perhaps they could point to a single manager with anything like regular success under this 'winning things' definition ........outside of the squillionares.

Success is relative.Moyes has given us some good times, some grand football and consistent league finishes. For a poor club like ours is It realistic to expect more? I'm desperate to see us compete at the top, but no one anywhere gets closer. His record is second to none.

I don't blame him for sending a clear message. If he goes then there's probably a better than evens chance we 'll end up like villa Sunderland or Newcastle. Mid table fodder with the occasional upward blip.

Michael Winstanley
47 Posted 28/11/2012 at 18:31:31
Don't sign it Davey. Thanks but no thanks. Too many times your negative keep it tight, hold on mentality has cost us. Your inability to make game changing substitutions has cost us points. Sticking with your favourites costs us points.

Please don't sign. I'm thankful for everything you've done for us but it's time to move on and let someone else have a go.

Andy Crooks
48 Posted 28/11/2012 at 18:53:49
It happened before; Moyes dithering over his contract and getting a fabulous deal. It'll happen again(no 20 % cut here, how he must regret spouting that shite).

He's got the best job in the world. A chairman who is in a mutual double act of appreciation. No threat of the sack, no pressure to win a trophy. Forty points a season is all it takes. I challenge any Evertonian to name a better job that David Moyes would be nailed on to get.

Michael Winstanley
49 Posted 28/11/2012 at 19:05:58
I reckon he'd get a job working in a chippy.
Barry Rathbone
50 Posted 28/11/2012 at 18:54:02
If Moyes was half as good as people suggest we wouldn't have the fanbase so split.

Bloody tiresome now, hopefully the next lad will have a bit more about him and bring some unity back.

Steven Telford
51 Posted 28/11/2012 at 19:30:50
Spot on James!
Unfortunately for some, they won’t know realise what they have until it’s gone. They are not looking for a manger, they're looking for an alchemist. And for those people who bring his salary into it, I would respond by pointing out that his general shrewdness in the transfer market has alone paid for that many times over.
Paul Andrews
52 Posted 28/11/2012 at 22:30:35
I wish I could get £70k a week for standing on the line impersonating a seal. A little wave of the hand this way, a little wave that way... all done while not one player is looking at him.

You will never see him make clever tactical changes. One example from tonight: Baines started to pour forward in the last 20 minutes time and time again. Wenger simply asked Walcott to play wide right... resulting in Baines not getting forward. Simple really, from a good coach who reads the game and reacts immediately.
Steven Telford
53 Posted 28/11/2012 at 23:55:30
Strange so that a seal impersonator can share the points with not just a good tactical coach, but a good tactical coach who commands so much more in terms of resources.

Bizarre really… Makes you want to clap your hands like seal.

Paul Andrews
54 Posted 29/11/2012 at 07:27:54
Clap them hard enough you may get a £70k a week salary.
We need someone to NOT share the points, especially at home. Honk, Honk.
Steven Telford
55 Posted 29/11/2012 at 08:47:20
Indeed, just like the 3 points we took off Man Utd on the opening day.

It’s a great thing that we have club for which can feel disappointed at having to share the points with Arsenal. I share that disappointment as we were gunning for all 3...

I have my doubts about the £70k talk but, even if it is true, a good manger is a valuable as player, so relatively speaking it's not that offensive a figure for the modern game. Plus some of Moyes's net gains of in the transfer market have yielded returns in the regions of 300-400%.

And, as I mentioned before, when you judge managerial expertise, you have to look at inputs relative to outputs. Not just outputs. Of course I want more out of Everton, I just know what can “legitimately” be asked for given the financial structure of the modern game (post Bosman). The way some people talk here it’s like they think New Manager = New Money.

Trevor Lynes
56 Posted 29/11/2012 at 13:24:12
DM has been making silk purses out of sows ears and has the financial support of old mother Hubbard! I reckon the man has integrity and his main failings are dourness and sometimes tactical errors. But he is an Evertonian through and through and has been punching way above his weight for so long that miracles are accepted as a right.

I for one do not believe that any manager in the Premier League would have done as well as he has with such a limited budget, and I'm including Wenger and Ferguson. If we make the top 6 this season it will be yet another miracle, top 4 is a dream! We do not have the squad to realize this dream unless major investment is made... end of!!

Paul Andrews
57 Posted 29/11/2012 at 16:08:12
He is, according to a recently published table, the 12th highest paid manager in Europe. How high up a table of all European clubs do you think Everton would be rated?

What would you "legitimately ask for", Steven, given the financial structure of the game?
Christopher Kelly
58 Posted 29/11/2012 at 16:29:45
I was asking myself the same thing Paul... In my opinion we'd be somewhere in the 20-25th best team in Europe right now.
Paul Andrews
59 Posted 29/11/2012 at 19:57:55
If we are relying on Moyes's record against top coaches here, there is also the obvious one.

In 10 years of trying, the Everton Manager has not managed to beat one of the so-called big four away from home. That is over 40 games.
Steven Telford
60 Posted 29/11/2012 at 21:06:12
What I am legitimately asking for is a top 4 top 5 finish. European football please. It wasn’t a trick question.

Top 4 would be fantastic
Top 5 I could live with, as we can financial build from and are on TV more.
Top 6 I’m very disappointed but I cannot legitimately call for the mangers head for that reason alone. Especially when I don’t believe there is anybody out there that can do a better job.

……. And to see us play some nice football, which I feel, by and large, we are.

In the current state of financial play the top 3 teams will always be Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea.
Arsenal and Liverpool are next natural tier (but inconsistency render them slippy)
Spurs and Everton are the next level of contenders and rely somewhat on slippage from the Arsenal and Liverpool.

Which team is the odd one out in that list? We are, because we are by far the poorest of that group, and that’s how I legitimize my expectations. Clear enough for you?

When I refer to the natural order, I am doing so in regards “average aggregation”. That is to say, there may be odd skips to that, but then the positioning restores itself. For example, Rafa at Chelsea is cause to consider a possible slip this year for Chelsea. Other than that, for an exogenous shock of some kind, for example a big capital foreign buyout (or new effective financial rules of some kind) the current natural order remains in place.

Now, I may be bias, but I actually think we are currently playing better football than all but the top 3 (admittedly I have not seen much of Spurs this season) which is another reason why I appreciate DM.

If you think I’m wrong that’s fine, but that’s how I legitimize my expectation of Everton and Moyes. If you have some opposing view, all I ask it that you put some logic into it, an just dispense criticism for the sake of criticism.

What are the Moyes bashers looking for? The treble by the sounds of things sometimes. Good luck, you’ll only know the value of DM when you lose him.

I like this idea of expanding the Champions league, that could be good for us.

Paul Andrews
61 Posted 29/11/2012 at 22:01:56
Fair enough, although I think you contradict your point somewhat: You marry the ability to finish in a higher position to financial outlay. With that in mind should we not be finishing 14th-15th?
Kevin Tully
62 Posted 29/11/2012 at 21:55:47
David Moyes is a decent, hardworking and pragmatic manager under no pressure from his employers.

His remit for the last 10 years has been to keep this club in the Premier League.

He has an excellent record in finding value for money in the transfer market –along with a few poor buys – but what manager hasn't ?

A miracle worker? Do me a favour. He has set many records in his ten years at the club, but many blank these stat's out as a blip. They will list his 4th placed finish, but forget we came extremely close to being relegated by finishing 17th.

He has said himself: "I wouldn't have paid to watch Everton last season, we were rubbish."

This is after 10 full seasons to put his stamp on a side.

Anyone screaming that we will be relegated if he leaves is deluded. We have a good side of extremely well paid International footballers, a lot of them on top 6 PL payscales.

He has been hamstrung by this board, but we still employ first team players on £50 -70k a week.

People ask " Who would we get?" Well, we do know there would be a queue around Goodison Road for his job – one of the biggest in football.

£3m a year to just for keeping us up is a pretty good deal for any manager in my eyes.

If we continue to improve with our new brand of attacking football, I hope he stays, but he is not irreplaceable by any means.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
63 Posted 30/11/2012 at 03:28:36
Steven Telford (#949)...

Wow: "exogenous" — triple word score!

Very impressive. I think it's safe to say, in 18 years, no-one on ToffeeWeb has managed to use that word. Respect!

Oh... but you let yourself down instantly in the next sentence for 'bias' instead of 'biased'. Shame...

Steven Telford
64 Posted 30/11/2012 at 10:47:37
Indeed, you can have a bias, but you can only be biased.
Anyway, just happy to be a part of the debate Michael.
Clive Rogers
65 Posted 30/11/2012 at 20:08:27
It's time for Moyes to move on. He's obviously had enough and certainly won't sign for another five years which would take him to 55.

Kenwright will just let him go, then our decline may turn into freefall. Moyes has a lot of faults, but has signed good players in general. He's not a winner though or surely we would have done something in the Carling Cup.

There will never be new owners while BK is still alive, that has become obvious. He has sold off all the assets to purposely make the club unsaleable. He saw off the Jain Group pretty quick. Loves the club? Not half as much as he loves himself. No wonder Alan Ball hated him!!!
Ian Bennett
66 Posted 30/11/2012 at 20:54:40
Moyes earning x, no trophy, etc MOB MOB MOB.

The sub text is the pool he competes against is looking worse – not better, and foreign managers rarely make it.

Benitez back, O'Neill on the slide, Hughes failed, 8-year pressure on Wegner, Lambert failing, Rodgers failing, Pardew 8-year contract and now on the slide, AVB not winning over Spurs fans.

£3m a season plugging a £5m deficit. Applicants apply within.


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